Being in our 30s & Growing Up with an Absent Father

Summary

Cate & Ty Break It Down

Episode: Being in Our 30s & Growing Up with an Absent Father
Date: January 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid and heartfelt episode, Catelynn and Tyler Baltierra reflect on the realities of adulthood in their mid-30s and how their upbringings—especially Tyler’s experience with an absent, addicted father—have shaped them as parents, partners, and individuals. The couple blends humor and vulnerability as they discuss growing older, shifting priorities, generational differences, and the emotional impact and legacy of family trauma, concluding with listener-submitted secrets and advice for those facing similar challenges.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Realities of Being in Your 30s

• Cate and Ty open with a recap of their night out with friends in downtown Detroit, reflecting on how their social lives—and their stamina—have changed.
• They laugh about the struggle of recovering from late nights and drinking after hitting their 30s.
  • Tyler: "Why does drinking feel like a chore? Why does it feel like I'm down and out for days?" [01:45]
  • Catelynn: "We are lame. This is what happens when you get old, you become lame. Are we gonna accept that we're lame? Let's accept it." [10:30]
• Tyler openly admits to being inflexible with plans and feeling anxiety when routines are disrupted.
  • Tyler: "I can't handle, like, changing the plan. I don't know, just... Once it hits me, I can't get the thought out of my head." [05:01 & 13:22]
• Both reflect on the benefits and comfort that come from accepting where they're at in life, even if that means “Irish goodbyes” from social events and the satisfaction of being home early.

2. Nostalgia & Differences Between Generations

• They look back fondly (yet critically) on their “wild and feral” teenage years, noting how the nature of socializing has changed for younger generations:
  • Catelynn: "House parties in the 2000s, you had to be there to even relate. They were top tier." [15:54]
  • Tyler: "Nowadays [kids] just sit on their phones... it's weird." [15:29]
• Tyler and Catelynn chuckle over stories of house parties held in unfinished homes and the lack of adult supervision, comparing it to the more controlled, digital age of today.

3. Growing Up Without a Father: Tyler’s Story

• The episode deepens as Catelynn asks Tyler about his earliest memories of his father, his mom’s struggles, and the impact of addiction on their family.
  • Tyler: "First, like, core memory? I think I was like six... a really quick memory of him stopping at our trailer and getting out of his truck and rubbing my head. But then that was it." [19:14]
• Tyler recalls his mom’s single parenthood, attempts to shield him and his sister from their father’s instability, and the eventual involvement of a stepfather figure.
• Honest talk about the confusion and trauma of broken families, including a chilling description of bounty hunters searching for his dad:
  • Tyler: "My very first memory as a child was bounty hunters looking for him... that's why I wake up in a panic maybe. I remember being in my little toddler bed and the flashlights come to the window." [30:32]
• Catelynn is struck by how Tyler’s lack of a stable dad influenced his development and what it means for raising their own children.

4. Breaking the Cycle & Intentional Parenting

• The conversation turns to how both grew up resolving not to repeat their parents’ mistakes.
  • Tyler: "I'm not doing that. I don't wanna be that guy. That's shitty." [32:30]
  • Catelynn: "You are more of a dad than he ever could have ever been or even ever wanted to be." [32:34]
• They discuss finding positive role models elsewhere—Catelynn’s grandparents for her, Rick (a stepdad) for Tyler—and how therapy from a young age was crucial.
  • Tyler: "People laughed at us for getting therapy at 17 years old... but we knew what we wanted out of this life. We wanted different." [36:04 & 36:50]
• Both stress the importance of showing their daughters loving, respectful relationships and teaching them self-worth:
  • Catelynn: "Parents, you teach your children how it is to be loved or what it looks like to be loved by somebody." [37:00]
  • Tyler: "It's important that you teach that. No one can love me the way I need to be loved unless I teach them." [37:22]

5. Raising Girls and Tackling Gender Norms

• Tyler talks passionately about the responsibility of being a “girl dad” and challenging patriarchal norms.
  • Tyler: "There's a bigger sense of duty for girl dads in this society. I feel a deeper sense of duty as a father to all girls." [38:43]
• Cate and Ty discuss gender equality, balancing masculine and feminine energies, and breaking down stereotypes for both girls and boys.
• They praise fellow parents online, especially “Driven by Jamie,” for encouraging boys to process emotions and challenge traditional gender roles.
  • Tyler: "You want to learn how to be more empathetic and compassionate towards other people? Ask kids. Kids are the most... they have emotional wisdom." [44:11]

6. Listener Secrets: Humor, Drama, & Advice

• Catelynn reads anonymous listener confessions:
  • Scrubbing a stepmom’s toothbrush in the toilet ("You are savage as f—ing diabolical." - Catelynn) [46:35]
  • An ex-husband sending explicit letters to a mother-in-law, prompting Ty’s outrage and humor [47:25]
• They offer compassionate advice to a listener scared to have children again after placing a child for adoption.
  • Tyler: "You gotta grieve and give yourself grace... get the good assets and tools in your tool belt to grieve in a healthy way before jumping in." [50:04]
  • Catelynn: "With adoption, you grieve for a lifetime... society expects you to just get over it—be done. Move on with your life. That never happens, by the way." [50:12 & 51:21]
• Both share the need for therapy, support, and societal understanding for birth mothers and adoptees.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On feeling old & rigid:
  • "I can't handle, like, changing the plan... Once it hits me, I can't get the thought out of my head. I'm looking for any opportunity to exit." – Tyler [05:01, 13:22]
• Nostalgia for 2000s parties:
  • "House parties in the 2000s, you had to be there to even relate. They were top tier." – Catelynn [15:54]
• Tyler on his absent father:
  • "First, like, core memory? I think I was like six... a really quick memory of him stopping at our trailer and getting out of his truck and rubbing my head. But then that was it." [19:14]
  • "My very first memory as a child was bounty hunters looking for him... That's why I wake up in a panic maybe." [30:32]
• On breaking the cycle:
  • "You are more of a dad than he ever could have ever been, or even ever wanted to be." – Catelynn [32:34]
  • "People laughed at us for getting therapy at 17 years old... but we knew what we wanted out of this life. We wanted different." – Tyler [36:04, 36:50]
  • "I feel a deeper sense of duty as a father... for all girls." – Tyler [38:43]
• On societal expectations:
  • "With adoption, you grieve for a lifetime. Society expects you to just get over it—be done. Move on with your life. That never happens, by the way." – Catelynn [50:12, 51:21]
  • "You want to learn how to be more empathetic and compassionate towards other people? Ask kids." – Tyler [44:11]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10–08:30 – Opening banter, stories of a night out, feeling old, plan changes
• 08:30–18:28 – Generational differences, nostalgia for youth and 2000s parties
• 18:28–32:47 – Tyler’s early memories, absent father, stepdad, and childhood trauma
• 32:47–38:43 – Parenting intentions, discussing breaking cycles, examples for their children
• 38:43–45:20 – Raising girls, discussions of gender norms, “driven by Jamie” on teaching empathy
• 46:28–52:15 – Listener secrets, stepmom toothbrush confession, ex-husband/mother-in-law drama
• 52:15–55:38 – Advice for birth mothers, trauma, therapy, lifelong grief in adoption
• 55:38–End – Closing thoughts, community, encouragement

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Episode Tone & Style

Honest, witty, supportive, raw, and unfiltered—Cate and Ty keep the vibe conversational, anchored by laughter and personal anecdotes, while seamlessly diving into serious, vulnerable territory around family trauma and healing. Both strike a balance between humor and heartfelt reflection, creating an engaging and safe space for listeners to relate and reflect on their own experiences.

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Takeaways

• Growing up means finding comfort in new routines—and knowing your limits
• Parenting and partnership can thrive despite traumatic or toxic family legacies, but it requires intention and self-examination
• Generational cycles can be broken, and therapy is a key part of healing and growth
• Openness with children about love, respect, and emotional intelligence is crucial—especially in both challenging gender norms and building healthy relationships
• Grief over family separations, especially in adoption, is a lifelong journey deserving of compassion, support, and societal understanding

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Transcript

[Caitlin]

Welcome back, guys.

[Tyler]

Welcome.

[Caitlin]

It's hump day. Means we're in the middle of the week. Almost done. Hallelujah.

[Tyler]

Thank God.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, we actually, we. We got to go out with some friends last night, which we don't really.

[Tyler]

Get to do rare.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Because I mean, we've come downtown a couple times just. And it's just. We just hang out with just me and you. But last night we actually got to get together with like our. A couple of our friends and my cousin Jordan. And it was really. It was fun.

[Tyler]

It was fun. Barcade was great.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, we went to the Barcade.

[Tyler]

Moots is always good.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, we went to the Moots Pizzeria downtown Detroit. If you haven't tried it. Oh, dude, the New York. I was telling Tyler's cousin yesterday, I was like, we'll go to Moots. It's like a pizzeria in like pasta place. It's like an Italian place. And I'm like, it's like a New York style pizza. And he's like. And he's like, I've had New York pizza. And I'm like, no, dude, I'm telling you, like.

[Tyler]

And he's right, though. Not a lot of people get New York pizza. Right?

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

But I don't know, dude. So Moots got it and then yesterday.

[Caitlin]

When we were eating, he was like, okay, yeah, dude. He looked at me, he's like, 10 out of 10, 10 out of 10. I'm like, dude, I told you Moots is good as hell.

[Tyler]

So good.

[Caitlin]

That's the thing. Like, downtown Detroit has so many good restaurants and, like, things to do. I love coming down here.

[Tyler]

I just think Detroit gets a bad rap. It's like, hey, yeah, come on, man. You just gotta know where to go, where not to go.

[Caitlin]

That's like with any big city.

[Tyler]

It's cool, man.

[Caitlin]

That's any big city. But no, I mean, we love coming downtown. But I'll tell you what. We.

[Tyler]

Dude, are old. Why? Okay, guys, I don't know if it's just like, what's going on as you get older.

[Caitlin]

I'm like, is it your 30s or.

[Tyler]

You know, the rare times that we ever get to go out? Why? Why? Why is drinking feeling a chore?

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Why does it feel like I'm down and out for days? Why do I feel like I wake up in the morning every time I regret it? Yeah, well, I regret the time had. I just regret. Why? Why did I have to take that many? Why I have to drink that many drinks? What the fuck is going on?

[Caitlin]

Like well, and the fact too, of like, being maybe. And maybe it's because we, like, did things when we were younger and like, so now we're older, we're just like, eh. We don't really care to do it. I don't know.

[Tyler]

Listen, guys, I don't know if it's. Why don't. When someone's like, hey, it's funny because we had an original plan to come down here and, you know, hang out with, like, certain people, whatever. And then, like, I don't like when plans get altered.

[Caitlin]

Right?

[Tyler]

We had a plan. How many people? 4.

[Caitlin]

This is what we're doing.

[Tyler]

Going here. And then after that, we'll be going after that.

[Caitlin]

Right?

[Tyler]

Like, I'm not a good. I need to know. Then they're like, well, maybe we'll add. Add more people and then maybe we'll go to a second place. I mean. No, no, no, no. We said four people, one place.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Eating and then going to another place. And that's it.

[Tyler]

Four people. Yeah, that's it. So when people start going, oh, we're going to like, what? I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then. Then immediately I'm like, cancel, cancel, cancel. I don't want to do it no more. I want to go home. I'm going to get in my robe, whatever. And I just want to. I don't want to do it now. Now I want to just come home and. And be. Yeah, I don't want to do it.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, it. Well, and it's funny because, like, when my friend. My friend texted me and she was like, oh, well, what if so. And so come to you? And I was like, I guess, like, I don't care, you know? I was like, but I just hate people. Like, you know. And she was like, you and me both. And I'm like, we're both bitches, bro.

[Tyler]

Like, what?

[Caitlin]

We're.

[Tyler]

But it's funny how it's like, I'm all excited. Y. Cool, cool, cool. The plan, the plan. The plan starts shifting. I'm like, cancel. Cancel it all done. Done, done. Like, whoa, t my head. I'm like, do tire. Chill out.

[Caitlin]

Now I'm just going to sit in the hotel room, watch.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I'm going to sit in the hotel room, order food here.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Not get dressed.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Not do. Watch Netflix and watch stuff because now I'm feeling overwhelmed. And I'm like, I don't want to do this.

[Caitlin]

It's like.

[Tyler]

It's weird though. It's like in my head, I'm like, tyler, dude, chill out. Things change.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, they do.

[Tyler]

Plans are allowed to evolve.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

For some reason, it started short circuiting my brain.

[Caitlin]

I know you all stressed out because my friend Brittany was like, well, maybe we'll go. Like, Detroit's got this cigar bar and they have, like, really good drinks and stuff. And Ty's like, well, now I had to bring something nice because if we end up at a cigar bar, like, you know, that's more of, like, kind of like dressier, you know? And so, like. And I didn't pack. I didn't pack anything really dressy. It was, like, cute, but casual, whatever. And so I was like, we ain't going to the cigar bar. Cigar bar. I was like, well, definitely hit up the barcade, because that's fun. Like, you get to play these games. Yeah. And it's like, dress code. No, you can be casual and stuff too, and have a good time.

[Tyler]

But that's what starts circuiting my cigar bar.

[Caitlin]

So then he was stressing out, and he's like, I'm switching my whole outfit. He's like, and I'm just gonna look 10 out of 10. So that way, no matter where we go, I'm straight. Straight.

[Tyler]

I can't. Dude. Dude. I can't handle, like, changing the plan. I, I don't know, just.

[Caitlin]

Or not knowing for sure what we're doing.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Especially when they're like, oh, we'll figure it out afterwards. No, no, no. Can't figure it out afterwards.

[Caitlin]

We.

[Tyler]

We're going to eat, and then where are we going? Oh, figure out. No, no, we will not figure it out. We need to figure out now, right?

[Caitlin]

Before we have time.

[Tyler]

We need to figure out now. And then in my head, I'm like, why am I, Why am I. Why do I need this? It's like, I can't handle the. I don't want the spot in 80.

[Caitlin]

Or, like, the unknowing.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I don't, I, I don't want it. I want the plan to stick to the plan.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, but sometimes it feels good to, like, fly off the seat of your pain. Nope.

[Tyler]

Never feels good for me. No, it doesn't. I mean, I, I, I, I, I can vibe and do it.

[Caitlin]

See, I'm such a flower head.

[Tyler]

I'm like, this is fucked.

[Caitlin]

I'm such a.

[Tyler]

And then, you know what's crazy is that once it happens and then something happens where it's like, see, this is why. This is why. This is why.

[Caitlin]

You're like, this is why I didn't want to do that.

[Tyler]

I didn't Want to do it? Because now look at it now. Now we're in this weird position. You're sitting out here in the cold. We have nowhere to go. You didn't plan it out. We switched the plans. Now we're freezing.

[Caitlin]

Last night was cold.

[Tyler]

Google things.

[Caitlin]

What the. Yeah, last night was cold too. I was like, I'm not. No. And there was a lot of things going on in the city. Yesterday they had a Halsey concert, Pistons game, the auto show is going on. And it was funny because when we left the hotel to, like, go get dinner, there's just these girls, dude, walking around everywhere. Like, no coats on.

[Tyler]

It's 11 degrees colder.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Wind is flying.

[Caitlin]

They have. A lot of them didn't have coats on. They were wearing, like, the lace, like, you know, like stockings and. Because, I mean, it's Halsey, you know, so it was just like. I was like, these girls are crazy.

[Tyler]

It's sacrifices that they're making to look like that. Yeah, nuts.

[Caitlin]

Especially with no go. I'm like, I would. At least I had a go. But the craziest thing, this could make us sound really old is we stayed up until like five in the morning, I think.

[Tyler]

And what the. Who, though?

[Caitlin]

Oh, today I'm so tired. I'm like, I don't want to do nothing.

[Tyler]

Why? This is what I'm saying. I wake up, I have. Oh, I'm still having a good time. Until the morning comes around. I'm like. And I wake up and I'm just like this, like, I'm like a gremlin. And I'm like, why last night? And I keep going back in time. Why? Like, I could have did everything we did without drinking nothing and staying up till 5am and staying up till 5am What. What are we doing here?

[Caitlin]

Because it was about when Brandon and Britt left. Our Ty's cousin and my. And our friend. It was probably about like 4:30. 4, 4:30? Yeah. And then it took me forever to fall asleep and I was freezing. Oh, so cold. But I'm like, I haven't stayed up. Why Till five in the morning. And God damn, last time I was probably, I don't even know, 16, 17. Probably not 16 or like 20s.

[Tyler]

I mean, give me a break.

[Caitlin]

Till 5 in the morning.

[Tyler]

5 in the morning.

[Caitlin]

It feels like decades. It feels like decades ago.

[Tyler]

Whose idea was this?

[Caitlin]

But it's funny, I'm like, so is this. Can other people relate? Like, is this just like you get into your 30s, like mid-30s, and you're just like. You're Old. Now.

[Tyler]

Now every time anyone's like, oh. And even thinking about staying up past one is just like, that sounds stupid, right?

[Caitlin]

It's like way past my bedtime.

[Tyler]

I don't want to stay up past.

[Caitlin]

We were waiting for the Uber last night to pick us up to take us to dinner, and it was funny because it was freezing outside. I'm like, you guys are nuts. Like, I'm going to stand in lobby. I'm standing in the lobby. It's like 7:45. I'm yawning already. Yeah. And there's an, like an. An older gentleman and his wife. And he looks at me, he's like, don't be doing that already. He's like, you're young, you know, like, and you're. You're yawning already. And I said, sir. I was like, sir. I have three kids at home and it is way past my bedtime.

[Tyler]

They're feral.

[Caitlin]

And once I said that, he was like, oh, I understand. I was like, yeah, I'm tired. It's. It's already past my bedtime and it's only through. Yeah, it's only 8 o'. Clock.

[Tyler]

We're gonna do this. Going to do this.

[Caitlin]

It was fun, though, because, I mean.

[Tyler]

But God damn it, five in the morning.

[Caitlin]

I know. Yeah. No.

[Tyler]

God, that's so unnecessary.

[Caitlin]

Well, and it. It's nice because, like, you know, Tyler and I, we have, you know, we have a very, like, it's a very small group of friends, and it's friends that we have known, you know, since childhood, middle school, and like my cousin. So I mean, you know what I mean? And. And it's nice to every once in a while get together with them because, you know, we do live like an hour and a half from the mall because we live in the middle of nowhere and they live, like, in the cities. So it was nice just to catch up with everybody and get to see everybody and just kind of not have to have any cares.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

For a while.

[Tyler]

That's the age of it.

[Caitlin]

Absolutely.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Woohoo.

[Caitlin]

Yep.

[Tyler]

I'm like, you feel accomplished, but what is the cost of accomplishment?

[Caitlin]

I wasn't puking, so it was a win.

[Tyler]

Five in the morning. I never. I don't want to do this ever.

[Caitlin]

No. Not five in the morning. Yeah. No, I'm like, never again. And then I wake up today and I'm like, I'm tired. And we ate lunch and I was like, now I'm even more tired. We're gonna go see a movie tonight. And I'm like, Hopefully I don't fall asleep.

[Tyler]

You better not fall asleep.

[Caitlin]

Well, your cousin Brandon said. He was like, it's super good. He's like, it's intense. And I was like, great.

[Tyler]

Falling asleep.

[Caitlin]

I'm like, the other Avatar made me sob like a baby in the movie theater. And you have you and your niece laughing at me, so. So hopefully this one isn't crazy.

[Tyler]

I mean, I don't know. I heard it was kind of intense, so.

[Caitlin]

Really?

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Damn. See what happens, you know? I don't know. All I know is I feel really old and lame because we are old because I'm tired.

[Tyler]

We are lame.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

This is what happens when you get old. You become lame. That's what happens. Are we accept. Are we gonna accept that we're lame? I think we're just accept. Let's accept it.

[Caitlin]

Oh, that we're just lame.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I'm done. I'm done. Like I said, I'm done trying to like, hey, five in the morning. That sounds stupid. Changing plans dumb. Not changing plans dumb.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, I know. It's like, can we say like, you know, you go out, have a good time. When you're back in your bed by like 10. That's great. You know, that's amazing.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Caitlin]

I know that sounds like a great.

[Tyler]

Time anymore, but how can they hang? They drink more. I don't know, whatever. They.

[Caitlin]

They don't have as many kids as us either.

[Tyler]

At the ages that we have.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

They're kind of like, yeah. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

And we. I don't know. And maybe it's because I have them on such a. We have them on such like a schedule that we're just so used to the schedule, you know? I don't know. But I like. I like being in my bed by like 9pm watching my trash tv.

[Tyler]

The last wedding we went to. Listen, the moment. The moment.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Eating after the dances. Their little daddy daughter dances and stuff. Yeah.

[Tyler]

It just sinks in my brain.

[Caitlin]

And we. Irish goodbye.

[Tyler]

I'm out. I don't. I am done.

[Caitlin]

Yep. I gave you my card. You know, with your little, you know, the little money and. You know what I mean? Yeah. After all the special dances and stuff, it's like, I'm out.

[Tyler]

That's how you know it. That's how you know we're just.

[Caitlin]

God, we. We are. We are. Irish goodbyes by. I love it. Horrible. It's horrible.

[Tyler]

Is it?

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Why?

[Caitlin]

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[Tyler]

You think it's rude?

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it respectful to be like, all right, guys, bye. Thank you so much for inviting us.

[Tyler]

I don't know. I don't think so. No, no.

[Caitlin]

Just all of a sudden, everybody's like, hey, we're getting Daigo.

[Tyler]

Well, if you use common sense, I'm gone.

[Caitlin]

They probably know by now, I think.

[Tyler]

I'm not. You're lucky to even get a See ya. Door closes. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm out. And it's. And it's funny because once it hits me, I can't. I cannot get the fault out of my head. I can't. Like, you know, sometimes like, oh, I'm kind of tired. All right, you know, what up. Give me another shot. Or you try to, like, pep yourself through it. No, no. Once it's in my brain, I'm like, I'm looking for any opportunity to exit.

[Caitlin]

And it's so funny.

[Tyler]

Planning it out, avoiding people that want to talk. Long time.

[Caitlin]

Oh, yeah.

[Tyler]

No, no, I'm turning, I'm avoiding. Whoa. And you know what I mean? Or see someone go, I'm like, like, no. And I'm. I'm out. I'm planning the exit.

[Caitlin]

And it's so funny because I. Me and you, like, we drink, what, once a year, maybe twice a year. Like, it's not tire bed, snooze fest, please.

[Tyler]

I think you're right, though, because we just did it so much when we were younger. We weren't allowed to.

[Caitlin]

That's what I mean.

[Tyler]

So then you get older. Like, this is cool.

[Caitlin]

First off, because I've seen some on Facebook. It was like, you're, you know, you're only in your 30s. Like, I know. Why don't you go out or, you know, go out and do anything anymore? And it was like a shame. The kids from Shameless. And I was like. Because I was steady doing it at 14 years old, I'm over it, you know?

[Tyler]

You know, it's not like we.

[Caitlin]

God, we are bad kids.

[Tyler]

I know. We were talking about it last night.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, we were.

[Tyler]

I know.

[Caitlin]

They were good times, though. Like, times that I wish I could go and relive every now and then.

[Tyler]

We were wild and feral and free.

[Caitlin]

But it was so fun.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

And like, it's weird because these few, like these newer generations, they don't do those things. They don't. Like, hey, Mom, I'm going to Samantha's. Even though you're really going to a field. Like we would an oil rig field, by the way, and just party with hundreds of people.

[Tyler]

I know, right?

[Caitlin]

Like, all different. You know, it was like high schoolers, middle schoolers, like, all together.

[Tyler]

I, I, it had to do with the fact that we didn't have like the phones we have. Like, it was kind of like.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Technology was like, it was like a paint. Yeah. It was a teeth. It was a very quick. There's. You're not writing novels.

[Caitlin]

No.

[Tyler]

You're not expressing your love on the text message. You're like, you know, call me later, whatever it is.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

Calling past seven when it's three minutes, you know?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, true.

[Tyler]

So it's like we were just like, it wasn't. Yeah. Nowadays they're just. And even the parties that they, they have. And what are they like? Like, this is a party. It's weird.

[Caitlin]

What do they do?

[Tyler]

They sit there on their phones and they're like. And then randomly.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And then they go back.

[Caitlin]

Dude.

[Tyler]

How a music would be again. It's weird. It's weird. It's weird.

[Caitlin]

House parties in the 2000s, you had to be there to even relate. Like, they were top tier.

[Tyler]

We would go on abandoned houses and have DJs.

[Caitlin]

Dude. Yes. I'll never get that. One time in Amanda's house, we were all in the basement.

[Tyler]

Remember the mod. The mod house that wasn't built yet, wasn't finished being built. We found that Mop. Remember? It was the basement. It was like cinder block. Do you remember this? And it was like a house that.

[Caitlin]

They were like, was I there?

[Tyler]

Yeah, yeah, you had. Maybe you weren't there. I don't. I think maybe you weren't there.

[Caitlin]

I don't know.

[Tyler]

But there was a. There was like a double wide mod modular house being built and they just like stopped building it. So there was windows, there was doors, was bathrooms. Like, it was like. But it was just like. It was like subfloor in. Not finished anything. Imagine if you guys got busted and we literally. Dude, it was awesome.

[Caitlin]

I just.

[Tyler]

And they put a DJ in the basement and it's weird. Cinder block poles and center block. Unfinished basement.

[Caitlin]

No, because I just remember being at like Amanda's house.

[Tyler]

Oh, man.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, Danielle's house.

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah.

[Caitlin]

Danielle's house always had the craziest parties. And you think about like. So in like the one Kaylee's a couple times, but you think about like some of these house parties that we went to at people's houses where the were their parents.

[Tyler]

I don't know. I don't know. No one asked questions.

[Caitlin]

And I'll never forget the one time it was at Amanda. Amanda's house, and we were all in the basement, like, party. I mean, dude, it was like a scene out of a movie.

[Tyler]

I feel like Rager.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Bang on the vent.

[Caitlin]

Oh, it was so fun. And then I remember all of us coming upstairs and everything in our house was flipped upside down. Remember somebody like, I guess. And I remember all of us were like, what? The.

[Tyler]

The whole house, the chairs, the tables, the. The. The couches, the chairs.

[Caitlin]

I was the littlest detail, like, upside down.

[Tyler]

The pictures on the wall are upside down.

[Caitlin]

Yes. It was funny. I just remember that. And then I remember getting this feeling like, we need to leave. Sure. Me and Ty left, like, what? 20 minutes later, the cop showed up. It was crazy.

[Tyler]

But, like, out of there.

[Caitlin]

Where were these people's parents? Like Danielle's house. Dude, there was like.

[Tyler]

Well, what happened was her mom ended up dying and the dad ended up moving. And it was like.

[Caitlin]

So he just let the kids.

[Tyler]

No, because he had the older sister. The older sister that was there. And then he just kind of like would stop in once a week and give him money. It was weird.

[Caitlin]

It was.

[Tyler]

It was weird. It was weird. It was different. It was like. It was. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

So see, we did all that now where it's just like, I'm too. I'm too old for it now. I just.

[Tyler]

I wish I was Cooler.

[Caitlin]

I mean, yeah, if you consider it cool.

[Tyler]

I'm not. I can't step to five anymore. No more.

[Caitlin]

No, even, like, two.

[Tyler]

I know it sounds sucky.

[Caitlin]

Whatever. It is what it is, you know?

[Tyler]

I'm not apologizing for it.

[Caitlin]

Did it too much back in the day. That's just. That's all that it is. People did send me some anonymous, like, secrets, but I wanted. I want to save that for the end. I mean, I don't know, though. I have a few of them and I feel like it could lead into different conversations, these episodes. I know, but then I also wanted to. I also. I wanted to kind of talk to you about, like. I mean, it's kind of intense, but, like.

[Tyler]

What do you mean?

[Caitlin]

I have just, like, I don't know, questions about your dad.

[Tyler]

Okay. Okay, go.

[Caitlin]

Oh, yeah.

[Tyler]

What? What?

[Caitlin]

I don't know. It's like. Like, I was just thinking the other day, I'm like, I wonder what. Because your dad wasn't really involved in your life, so what is your, like, first memory that you can remember of your dad?

[Tyler]

First, like, core memory?

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Or just the first memory you have of your dad? And how old do you think you were?

[Tyler]

I want to say I think I was like six. Yeah, I want to say I was like six. That I remember. I have a really weird, like, really quick memory of him stopping at our trailer and get out of his truck. And then he, like, rubbed my head. I was. I must have been really little because it's very fast. Like, I just remember, hey, it was so good, and you rub my head. But then. But then that was it. And then I remember, yeah, probably when I was like six. I think it was the first when he got out and he picked me up.

[Caitlin]

Really?

[Tyler]

Yeah, me and Amber. He picked me up and then we went to his girlfriend's house. But it was like. I remember thinking I had, like, you've been out for a minute and you already got a girl. I don't know. It was weird. Like, we're going to your girlfriend's house. It's just fucking weird. I was like, what's. What the fuck?

[Caitlin]

And did you know this girl?

[Tyler]

And I remember thinking, my head, like, why don't you have your own house? You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, you. I don't know. It's just weird.

[Caitlin]

And you didn't know this girl?

[Tyler]

No, I know. I know. Yeah, he introduced me. This is my girlfriend. Hey, dad. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. Girl, girlfriend.

[Caitlin]

Nice to meet you, dad.

[Tyler]

You know what I'm saying? I know. I. I knew. I knew in my mind it wasn't the first time we ever met, but it was the first time that I, like, like, remember it. Remember? Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Because do you ever remember, like, being young, Like, I don't know, like, being younger and asking your mom questions about your dad?

[Tyler]

Yeah. She just would say he had a problem.

[Caitlin]

Okay.

[Tyler]

He's a problem. Okay. Got it.

[Caitlin]

Because your sister obviously has more younger memories with your dad.

[Tyler]

You do? Oh, yeah. Lots more. Yeah. Than me. Huh. Because by the time I was born, he was already diving deep into his addiction. When she was born, he wasn't an addict yet. My mom was like, you know, it was normal.

[Caitlin]

He just probably, like, started getting into.

[Tyler]

It, their party a little bit.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

She wasn't like. But he was. She was. Said that he wasn't, like, into any of that stuff by the time I came along. I should never been born. Pretty much.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Definitely not. So when I came along, it was like, he was already.

[Caitlin]

Well, in the crazy. Well, and the crazy part, too, is.

[Tyler]

Like, your mom, I think, wanted to have an abortion because she was like.

[Caitlin]

Well, like your mom says, like, they were broken up.

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah, they were. Yes.

[Caitlin]

And then his.

[Tyler]

His brother died.

[Caitlin]

Right. And then. So after the funeral, he, like, knocked on your mom's door, and she, like, felt bad for him.

[Tyler]

I love him so much and felt.

[Caitlin]

Bad, obviously, because his brother died.

[Tyler]

I'm like, what a weird pity. That's.

[Caitlin]

I was gonna say pity sex. Yeah.

[Tyler]

There I am.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. And then your mom had, what? She had a couple appointments, I think.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And she's. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Something in her.

[Tyler]

Something in her. Something in her. But she. But she remembered her saying that, like, at that point, I. I was already experiencing with Amber what was going on. Amber was four.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Three. Three years old by that point. So she said. I knew it was only gonna get worse because he started out being a really good dad.

[Caitlin]

Huh.

[Tyler]

By the time Amber was three, it was not. You know what I mean? So she was like, another one with him.

[Caitlin]

We're not even dating.

[Tyler]

I don't want to be with them.

[Caitlin]

She's struggling to raise her.

[Tyler]

All at once, she realizes that she's by herself with Amber. So she was like. I mean. Yeah. And something about. She didn't get the abortion.

[Caitlin]

So was your dad. Was he. Was he there when you were born?

[Tyler]

No, he wasn't late. Like, he. Like, my mom already had me, and. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

So he wasn't in jail or anything, but he just wasn't.

[Tyler]

No, there's there, but he's one. Yeah. He wasn't in jail, but he wasn't at the hospital when I was.

[Caitlin]

How the do you miss that?

[Tyler]

I don't know. I have no idea. He was there when Amber was born.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. I've seen pictures. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Normal back then, so, you know, halfway normal.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

By the time I came along, it.

[Caitlin]

Was like he was just heavy in the addiction by that point.

[Tyler]

Wasn't supposed to be here.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

This is like. You know what I mean? They weren't together.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

So, I mean. Yeah, but I do.

[Caitlin]

So they were never together. Even for a little bit of a.

[Tyler]

Period of time after I was born. They tried. You know what I mean? But, yeah, he was gone, I think before I was even a couple months old because of my mom started dating her boyfriend Rick, who I remember from the age of. Whenever I could even remember, that was the only.

[Caitlin]

Really, really, like, really loved him. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Really. And I knew he wasn't my real dad.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. But I just didn't do dad things with you, obviously.

[Tyler]

Yeah, he, like, he, He. He was there, remember? So he came in the picture and I was like seven months old.

[Caitlin]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

And my mom said that when her. My dad tried after I was born, it wasn't really a try. It was more or less like, what are we doing? So it took months to figure out, like, okay, we're not together. This isn't. You know what I mean? Like, it.

[Caitlin]

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[Tyler]

So she said that she wasn't. It wasn't really like they were dating. It was like, what are we doing with this parenting thing? Yeah, we have another one. And then Rick came along and. Yeah, that's all I remember is from that until the age of, what, five?

[Caitlin]

So she was with him for a long time.

[Tyler]

Long time. I mean, he, like, loved me. He had one daughter. And so, yeah, he, you know, he always wanted a son. And I mean, I. Yeah, my mom said that he just really took me right under his wing and everything. So as a Kid. He was really goofy, like, throw me and, like, you know what I mean, right?

[Caitlin]

Like, play with you and stuff.

[Tyler]

So I guess at that point it was like I knew it was my real dad, but I also didn't. But my. My real dad was so, like, far distance from my memory from. I was like, I don't really care.

[Caitlin]

But can you remember, like, being that young and, like, really, like, wondering about your dad?

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah.

[Caitlin]

I mean, or, like, fantasizing about him.

[Tyler]

Fantasizing for sure.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Because then we get pictures. I still got pictures. You know, he would, like, write letters to Amber. He'd write letters from prison, and he always look. Looking all huge, and I'm like, well, that's my dad. He's booked, you know, Damn. Holy. Big and strong. But I never felt, like. I never felt as big as a yearn for him that Amber did.

[Caitlin]

Okay.

[Tyler]

I felt like, yeah, that's my dad. And then I'd be like, Rick. You know what I mean? Because Rick was just there.

[Caitlin]

And that's what you remembered.

[Tyler]

That's what I remember from all.

[Caitlin]

You must have been devastated when your mom and him broke up.

[Tyler]

I didn't understand what's going on.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I had no clue. Yeah. Really abusive.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah, he got really abusive. And then. Yeah, that was. That was then. Of that. My mom was like, I can't do this no more.

[Caitlin]

Which rightfully so.

[Tyler]

My little kid had. I'm like, what the. Where's?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, right.

[Tyler]

What the hell?

[Caitlin]

Because you didn't know. You didn't know until you were older.

[Tyler]

She ended up breaking up with Rick, and then. And then my dad ended up getting out of prison pretty recently after that. Because I remember. I remember him getting out when I was like six. And this was like, probably like. Yeah. And then she. Her and Rick were done by. I was by the age of five. So as a baby, up until five, I'm thinking Rick is like. But I didn't even care that they were married. I'm like, this is. This is my life, you know?

[Caitlin]

I mean.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And then. Yeah, my dad got out pretty recently after that.

[Caitlin]

So he was in prison from, like, what you can remember up until like. Up until like, five or six.

[Tyler]

Go to prison. I want to say I went to prison by the time I was two.

[Caitlin]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And so. But I don't remember any of that. My mom said he would come, he would visit. Like, you know what I mean?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, you're too little at that point.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I don't remember any of that. So I didn't have any like, attachment to him.

[Caitlin]

And so then when you were six and he got out, how long. Do you remember how long he was out for?

[Tyler]

Holy. Six years old.

[Caitlin]

Because. Was it not very long?

[Tyler]

No, it wasn't long at all.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I want to say maybe. Yeah. Four years old. Okay. Four or five. She. Maybe. Maybe she worked around four. Oh, five, six. Yeah. Seven, eight. He got out again when I was eight.

[Caitlin]

Okay.

[Tyler]

So I think he went to prison the first time for, like, two years. The second time he went to prison when I was eight, he was in there for four years. Eight, nine. 12. Yeah, right, 12. Yeah. So.

[Caitlin]

And then obviously he went back again because I. When me. You were dating.

[Tyler]

So think about it. So he got out. He got out. Or he went back to prison when I was, like, 8, and then 8, 9, 7. 12. Yeah, and then 12. I met you.

[Caitlin]

You know what I mean? Yeah, around 13. And then.

[Tyler]

Yeah, he got out like, a year after meeting you.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll never forget that. It was like. Oh, God. I think it was the first. The first or second time I was ever at your house.

[Tyler]

And I was like, this is so.

[Caitlin]

And you're like, my dad's got out. He's coming here. And I remember being. So I walked in the living room, I'm like, oh, I was so scared.

[Tyler]

Well, because I'll say, hey, by the way.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, scared. So scared. And I walk out in the living room, and he looks at me. Butch does he looks at me, he goes, who's this broad? And I remember being like, oh, my God, he's scary.

[Tyler]

I was like, dad, don't call her abroad. Jesus Christ.

[Caitlin]

Right?

[Tyler]

Any dude, he had his leather vest on.

[Caitlin]

And then. Because, I mean, even just like, me and you being together, he was, like, in and out of prison all the time. I think, obviously, this is the longest time that he's been out of my jail. Right. In your whole life?

[Tyler]

My whole life, yeah.

[Caitlin]

And it's.

[Tyler]

And it's. And I've. I've seen him more. Isn't that weird? Yeah, he's not the longest this time he's out. He's been out the longest, actually. Off parole. Never thought a day in my life my dad would be off parole. Off parole, not in prison for the longest time ever in my life. And I saw more, you know what I mean, when he was in and out. Isn't that weird?

[Caitlin]

But, like, I mean, I guess just like, I'm wondering from, like, a boy's perspective, you know, how do you think that shapes you as, like, an Individual and as, like, a man, like, not having a dad around, we just learn your own.

[Tyler]

You know what I mean?

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

On your own. I don't know.

[Caitlin]

I mean, but even just, like, the emotional effects, like, you know what I mean? Like, for a boy.

[Tyler]

But I think. Okay, I'm gonna go back to what you said about fantasizing, because what happened was when you fantasize, and then you have to burn your own dream down. That makes sense.

[Caitlin]

Which. That said for a little kid.

[Tyler]

I'm a little kid. He's big. He's muscular. He looks like. He's. He's funny.

[Caitlin]

Oh.

[Tyler]

Like, you know, as a boy, like, oh, this is. He's awesome. My dad's gonna kick your ass. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of like, whatever. And then you. That. That. That fantasy slowly gets chipped, and so you have to make it.

[Caitlin]

And that was his doing. Nobody else.

[Tyler]

It was being younger and being like.

[Caitlin]

Oh, it's kind of not what I pictured or imagined.

[Tyler]

Yeah, he's strong, but he's weak. Like, you know what I mean? All these things. And so you have to, like, allow the fantasy to burn. And so I think that's when I was like, all right, this guy, you know?

[Caitlin]

And then you get. Because you went through a stage of being angry. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Well, when I met you on the. Because when he went back to prison when I was 8 and I watched him get tackled, I was like, this is crazy. My mom was. You know, she picked me up, and she was. I was traumatized, and she's probably pissed the. I was hitting the cops. Oh. I remember being in, like, I remember being driving home, being like. And just screaming at my mom, like, these cops, these people.

[Caitlin]

Because you don't understand either. Yeah.

[Tyler]

I don't even know. He was out for. God damn it. Probably not even. Not even a full year.

[Caitlin]

So isn't that sad, you know? Did you. What you just said, like, I just got him back.

[Tyler]

I just got him 8 years old.

[Caitlin]

Sad.

[Tyler]

So I'm thinking about him. All right. I'm eight years old. Oh, cool. So when you're eight and you're young and you're like, oh, this is my new life. I'm gonna go my dad's every weekend.

[Caitlin]

Oh, my God.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Cool. So then to be. And then right when I started getting comfortable with that kind of, like, seeing them.

[Caitlin]

Whatever.

[Tyler]

And also, boom. You're gonna come tackle and take him.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Which I think is up that they did that in front of his kids.

[Tyler]

Well, there. I mean, honey, he was. He was I mean, they.

[Caitlin]

Was he on the run or something? Yeah, he was on the run.

[Tyler]

Okay. But bounty hunters? My very first memory as a child was bounty hunters looking for him.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, you've told me that story before.

[Tyler]

I mean, I woke up in a morning. That's why I wake up in a panic maybe because I remember being in my little toddler bed and the flashlights come to the window. You know how, like, trailers have those thin, like, metal windows. You know, it was just. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Especially back then.

[Tyler]

And of course I'm like, giddy. I'm like, what the.

[Caitlin]

How old do you think you were, dude? Because you're in a toddler bed. Three? Four?

[Tyler]

Yeah, like four. But that's like. What's your earliest memory? Bounty hunters.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And because I was just such a traumatized. I thought we were getting robbed. I thought.

[Caitlin]

Because were they yelling and outside too.

[Tyler]

I'm like, what the. And there's pounding on the window. It was wild. Wild. And my mom was livid because there's.

[Caitlin]

Kids in this house.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And she was like, I have children. And like. And they just. Bounty hunters. They don't give a rightly so because they're trying to find. I mean, he bailed. He. He went out on bail. I don't know what happened.

[Caitlin]

He was running. Yeah.

[Tyler]

And so. And I remember, like, our trailer had, like, a step up to the kitchen. And I remember walking out my room and, like, there's flashlights coming around. They're randomly screaming. And. And then I remember getting to the window where I kind of set up a little higher. And the window was above the sink. And that's what I could see him, like. And they look scary because they're dressing all black.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And then flashlights. All I'm seeing is flashlights. That's the first time I saw, like, a figure. So he's like. And then, like, lining by the light and like, he was. And he was like, in a dark. Dude. And think about it. Like, I. Dude. I was.

[Caitlin]

Especially being a toddler, literally a little kid.

[Tyler]

I'm like, we're dead. We're dead. You know? I mean, I don't know. All I know is that was the scariest ever.

[Caitlin]

Wow.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

What do you think? How do you think, like, not having a dad in your life has shaped you into, like, who you are today is, like, a dad not having one?

[Tyler]

Probably in every way possible, I would think. You know, I don't have one, so I gotta figure this all out. I don't. I mean, I. I pretty much. I'm not Doing that.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Gonna be that guy. That's shitty. You know, Like, I don't.

[Caitlin]

Because, I mean, there's been many times like, and people don't know, but like, there's been many times where I've got emotional. I've told you, like, you are more of a dad than he ever could have ever been or even ever wanted to be. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, I hope so.

[Tyler]

The bar is low as hell.

[Caitlin]

Well, I'm just saying, like, even I feel like, no, but I just feel like for coming from like a man now that was a little boy and never had the experience of like, this is what a dad does. This is how a dad acts. This is what, how a dad treats his children or his wife or whatever. Like, you didn't have any of those examples and you have done an amazing job of doing all those things.

[Tyler]

Well, you didn't. How did you become a mom? How did you know how to be a wife?

[Caitlin]

I mean, I didn't know how to be a wife.

[Tyler]

So this is, this is, this is life. This is what we do.

[Caitlin]

I know, but I'm just saying, like, I think it's very impressive and I think you should hold on to some like, like pride in that where it's like, yeah, like, I didn't have a dad. My dad was a piece of, unfortunately. But like, you are an amazing dad. You're an amazing husband. You always. And of course it's all girls, which is crazy, but like, isn't that wild? But. And I love it because it's like, you know, they are gonna look for somebody, you know, to treat them like how they see you treat me and how you treat them and stuff. I'm like, yeah, you know, you never had. You just did completely different of your dad. And I think it's amazing to see.

[Tyler]

Thank you. We're just raw dogging the.

[Caitlin]

I mean, we are. Yeah. I mean I, I mean, because unfortunately there's been lots of people in my whole, in my whole family. Like, not just like parents or whatever, but there's been lots of people that I've looked at and I've been like, I ain't doing that.

[Tyler]

No. Hell no.

[Caitlin]

I'm doing opposite than that.

[Tyler]

I don't want to do that. That looks.

[Caitlin]

But when you say like, about like being a wife and stuff, I guess the only people that I can think of in my life that like inspired me to be like, you know, like in a healthy relationship, in a long term relationship or was my grandma and.

[Tyler]

Grandpa that's what I figured.

[Caitlin]

You know, Like, I looked at them and I still obviously, like, I adore them.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

And that was gay. You know, they've been married 50 something years. I'm like, that's. I remember being a little kid.

[Tyler]

You saw how grandpa treated Grandma.

[Caitlin]

Oh, yeah. And then I've also seen my grandma. Soon she'd get pissed off and she. I'll never forget the one time she, like, flicked him off behind his back.

[Tyler]

And you were like.

[Caitlin]

I was like, grandma.

[Tyler]

Grandma.

[Caitlin]

Years later, she apologized. She's like, I never should have done that. I was like, I thought it just humanized you. Like, you know. But. Yeah, I looked up to my grandparents a lot and, you know, still do in many, many ways of like.

[Tyler]

Yeah, but you also come from a matriarchal line of just. You do. Grandma Lee was Grandma Lee. Mimi is Mimi. Your mom is. You know what I'm saying? So for you to be.

[Caitlin]

What the.

[Tyler]

You're completely. Hello.

[Caitlin]

Thankfully, we've all just kind of gotten a little better.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

In certain ways.

[Tyler]

You know what I mean?

[Caitlin]

Over all the generations, you know, or whatever. But I'm hoping, for me at least. It's like, I cut that.

[Tyler]

We cut. We stopped it, babe.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Listen, it ends with us, period. It's not. I will not continue. I will not allow this to continue. I didn't want to have, you know, different parents for my kids, like half siblings. I didn't. I didn't want any. I didn't want it.

[Caitlin]

Just different.

[Tyler]

I wanted. Yeah. And I. And it's funny because that's why I think. Think me and you were so committed early on in our young life because we knew what we wanted out of this life. We knew it. So I think that's how people. People laughed at us for getting therapy at 17 years old.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You know what I mean? They're like, I can't. What the. You guys are. You know you're doomed.

[Caitlin]

Right?

[Tyler]

Like, okay. Getting personal therapy at 17. My mom was like, what are you doing? I'm like, listen, it's just. It's almost like our souls knew before our minds.

[Caitlin]

Did that mean. I think so.

[Tyler]

Our soul. I know we're gonna be together. We got a lot of healing to do.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

This is gonna last and work.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

And I feel like we took the time to do that and prioritize it over, like, rushing to get married. Rushing to get. You know what I mean? We didn't. We were engaged for almost nine years.

[Caitlin]

Long time.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. So it's like we.

[Tyler]

We Knew I didn't.

[Caitlin]

And I was fine with that.

[Tyler]

I was fine with it.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

The rings are right. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like we. And when people laughed at us about that being so young. And now I see those same people struggling in their own relationships. Like, what the.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

So, I mean, you can say what you want, but hey, like, I knew for a fact that we wanted different. And we're going to create different.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Fall in your lap.

[Caitlin]

Right?

[Tyler]

To create it. You do it yourself. So.

[Caitlin]

And that's what I think, you know, And I do think that, you know, girls and boys, young girls and boys, like, when they see how their parents treat one another or boyfriends or husbands, whatever, like, I feel like they, like, that's, you know, I. I guess I feel like parents. You teach your children how it is to be loved or what it looks like to be loved by somebody in a sense, you know? Yeah. Like how to be loved by somebody.

[Tyler]

It's important that you teach that. I. You don't. No one can love me the way I need to be loved unless I teach them. And that's why I'm saying it's important.

[Caitlin]

I'm. I'm blessed that our girls see us like, we're goofy together, we're funny, we're cuddly, lovey. You know, we've never called each other out of our names in front of them or I mean, ever, period. But even in front of them.

[Tyler]

You ever seen us yell at each other?

[Caitlin]

No. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just certain things where I'm like, oh, like, you know, I really do. I have faith that my daughters will pick somebody. Like, you ever call one of my daughters a or stupid or something? They're gonna be like, I ain't never seen my daddy call my mama a. Like what? And leave.

[Tyler]

You know what I mean? Like, and they're gonna see. My dad always opened that door.

[Caitlin]

Right. There's just little small for my mom and me.

[Tyler]

Yeah. For. And that's why I feel like, for me specifically, like, I knew it was really important because we do have all girls. And it would be naive for me to pretend that we live in a equality society where we. Where men and women are equal. They're not equal. It's.

[Caitlin]

That is.

[Tyler]

We live in a very patriarchal, sick. Whatever. And so I felt. I feel a deeper sense of duty as a father, for one, but a father to all girls.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

That. It's like, I need. You guys need to know that there are men that are not like this.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

That are not like that.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Like, there. There are men out there, and I.

[Caitlin]

Think hopefully you'd be on the streets with me protesting that. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Caitlin]

And there's a lot of men that are. Are that they. That do.

[Tyler]

And so. And so don't settle because you think you need to fall into this social hierarchy. It's a. It's a false hierarchy. It's not real. And I. It's. It's. It's a. It's a bigger pressure I feel because it's like, I. Eventually our girls will be in relationships with people, and it's like, I. They have to know that they are deserving of all the same things. Autonomy, power, just all of it.

[Caitlin]

Respect. Everything.

[Tyler]

All of it. All of it. And so I think there's a bigger.

[Caitlin]

In my opinion, I'm like, if not more than somebody with a dick between their legs. But that's why I teach that.

[Tyler]

Like. Like, I feel like, yeah, there's a bigger sense of duty for girl dads in this society, for sure. And I think it's important for them to see strength, you know, strength in both sides that men can be. They have masculine strength and they have feminine strength. You. You. There's a masculine. Yeah, because I. Feminine. You have to balance it.

[Caitlin]

Because I love seeing, like, when you say something like that, too, like, going back to, like, boys or, you know, people, you know, women that are raising boys or whatever. Like, even dads. Like, I've seen lots of, like, people will comment on my stuff when I share things about how I'm raising my daughter. And I love to see it. I feel like our generation of parents and younger, they're like, absolutely, like. And I'm raising my son to know that your daughter isn't the only one supposed to be in that kitchen or that you will respect these women and, you know, and I'm like an amen. I'm raising my daughters, you know, for themselves, but also respect the men that are respectful to them and caring to them. Like.

[Tyler]

Yeah, you're right. Because now that I think about it. Yeah. So even the dads to boys.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, super. Oh.

[Tyler]

So please, you have to understand that raising your boys to learn and understand that the most harmonious relationship you can have is with someone who balances masculine.

[Caitlin]

Feminine, every single right and feel their feelings.

[Tyler]

And women have masculine, feminine energy. You have got to be able to create this fluid balance and know when to increase, decrease, when to use it in the right way. And unfortunately, we live in A society still today where it is used in a not good way.

[Caitlin]

Right. And I think, and I think there are obviously like, you know, there is a lot of parents out there that I've seen mostly like the millennial generation. I've noticed, like when I have conversations on, you know, like tick tock and things like that, where they are, they're like, absolutely not. My. My son is being raised to show his feelings and his emotions and talk about it, and that's super important. So hopefully that just leads to cha. Like, I feel like, I feel like, you know, our kids's generation, I feel like they're gonna come in this world and they're gonna some up for the best way, you know what I mean? In all of life. Like, I feel like, like those younger generation of kids, because they're being raised. Majority of them are being raised with like different and better, in my opinion, like values and morals and ideas and stuff. Like, I really do think that those are. They're going to change a lot of shit.

[Tyler]

I hope so. I want to come in here and flip the fucking tables.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

The fact that. And I want them to know that it is totally cool and awesome for a woman to be a CEO and have a husband, stay at home and cook and clean, take care of kids, whatever, it is totally legit. It doesn't mean any, doesn't mean anything other than it's equal. And I feel like.

[Caitlin]

And being supportive of who you love.

[Tyler]

And I also feel like, like there's a. Whoever, if everyone's listening. Driven by Jamie. Driven by Jamie is a woman who is. She's a. A amazing mother, from my opinion, in my opinion, from what I see. And she literally will show her two boys.

[Caitlin]

Oh, you showed me one of her videos.

[Tyler]

Yeah. During my Jamie, she shows the two boys kind of like, you know, either political stuff or social stuff or like, you know, activists or whatever, just to kind of get their perspective.

[Caitlin]

And where did you find her? On Instagram. Was she on Instagram?

[Tyler]

It was Facebook.

[Caitlin]

I can't remember.

[Tyler]

But she. Yeah, she like, she shows and then she records her showing her boys and she. And you can tell that she's not like directing them, she's just.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, they just have a conversation. Yeah.

[Tyler]

What do you think he means by saying that? And she'll play like an Andrew Tate video. Them saying like, women deserve, you know, whatever the. That idiot says. And all these red pill idiot dudes out there. God, I can't stand it. But anyway, she'll show a video and she'll pause and Say, what do you think he means by that? And then she lets the boys kind of, like, dissect it.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And it's interesting when you. When you see children who are fluid and they're not yet adapted to the social hierarchy kind of bullshit filter, kind.

[Caitlin]

Of what they come up with and what they think is saying, listen, you.

[Tyler]

Want to know how to be compassionate? Ask children.

[Caitlin]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Children can teach you how to be compassionate without. Because they are not. They're not hardened by these weird social filters we've been forced to be in and categorize. So it's like they're. They're more fluid. So like, you. She asked the boys and the boys. That's kind of mean, you know? And it's just, like, so simple. It's like, get. Dude. I think grown men can learn more from these two boys.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

By this mom kind of instigating this conversation. And I think it's important that she's not doing it because she's just having conversations, literally teaching her boys. This is how to think. Not what to think, how to think, how to process. You know what I mean? Without any of the. And it's like, you want to learn how to be more empathetic and compassion compassionate towards other people. Ask kids. Kids are the most. They're so. Like, they're.

[Caitlin]

And they'll tell you how to.

[Tyler]

This. And they're. It's almost like the. We have more, like, almost. We have more like, useless wisdom. We have more like, like, like basic wisdom. Like, oh, financial wisdom. And this is what you do with time management and whatever. They have more spiritual wisdom.

[Caitlin]

Children are fluid and, like, emotional. Like.

[Tyler]

Yeah, emotional wisdom. They'll literally look at someone and just be like, oh, that's mean. That's not nice. Or this is. It's. It's crazy. And it's like, it's so simple when you ask kids. And I think it's so great that she's doing it in a way of, like, this is how you can raise healthy, masculine boys who also know how to balance their feminine side, which is emotions and nurture and care. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

That video.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Caitlin]

It's.

[Tyler]

It's. It's. It's amazing.

[Caitlin]

That video. When you showed it to me, I was like, that was.

[Tyler]

And I really posted it and I shared it, and I said on my Facebook, I. I shared it and I said, I. For. I have a. As a father of all daughters, I pray that my daughters would end up with a boy like this.

[Caitlin]

Absolutely.

[Tyler]

You know, because it's just so.

[Caitlin]

And that's what I mean about the gen. You know what I mean? I think, you know, I think there's a lot of parents out there that are doing it differently for the better. And I love your parents.

[Tyler]

Keep it going.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. And the younger ones sent us, you.

[Tyler]

Know, I'm telling you, I can't wait to. For this generation to get. They're going to flip tables.

[Caitlin]

I hope so. They're going to. They're going to flip down, dude. And I'm here for it. I can't wait to be like 70. Be like. Yeah, no, you know what I mean? We have time where I can do a couple of our anonymous secrets. I love it when people give us secrets. Let's see. I love. I love these ones because I had an evil stepmom and I hated her guts my whole life. So I love this one. I think it's great. She's like, when my dad got remarried, I scrubbed the toilet with my stepmom's toothbrush. Yeah. Why didn't I ever think that?

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Caitlin]

You know, like I'm gonna make sure, like, you know it first.

[Tyler]

Oh, dang.

[Caitlin]

And then. You are savage as diabolical. No, because I did. I had an evil. Stop. Mom. I hated that.

[Tyler]

No, she's pretty much a narcissist.

[Caitlin]

So what would I mean, could you imagine, like finding out that your toothbrush. Yes. In the toilet.

[Tyler]

I mean, hey, don't be a piece of true. And you won't have your toothbrush.

[Caitlin]

True.

[Tyler]

Most likely.

[Caitlin]

So another one I got. Oh is this one was crazy. My ex husband. So their exes now. Was sending my mother explicit love letters for years. Even after we divorced. Dude. And I've seen some things like that. Like, you ever heard of the stories Ex husband sent my mom explicit love letters for years.

[Tyler]

Love letters.

[Caitlin]

So probably talking about how he wants to do dirty things to her.

[Tyler]

What? What?

[Caitlin]

Even after they were divorced.

[Tyler]

I'm gonna pause and say, what the is up with mom?

[Caitlin]

His mom responding to you telling your.

[Tyler]

Daughter that your creepy ass ex husband.

[Caitlin]

Maybe she had to or unless. Unless she found the letter or something.

[Tyler]

I don't want to know about mom because it should be. Never been more than one letter. Letters is plural in that statement.

[Caitlin]

Yes. For years.

[Tyler]

More than one letter. No, no.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Only one letter. And the mom goes, you're crazy. Hey, daughter. You know what I'm saying?

[Caitlin]

Because she said even after they were divorced, he was still sending her mom explicit letters.

[Tyler]

What the mom doing? How do you have multiple letters, bro?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, right.

[Tyler]

You just mailing like, someone to. Excuse me, tell this guy to. What the. That, bro. All right.

[Caitlin]

And I've heard of as. Yeah, I've heard of other stories like that too, where it's like, you know, like, the sisters end up, like, sleeping with the other sister's husbands. Like, you ever hear those stories?

[Tyler]

No.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Or just like. Or, yeah. Or like, guys, like, doing their wife's moms and don't be a hoe, isn't it? Could you. I would beat.

[Tyler]

What the. What?

[Caitlin]

I would beat my mom's ass. Sorry, Mom. But I would. If I ever found out. I couldn't imagine, like, people that find themselves in those situations. Like, I would literally.

[Tyler]

I don't know why. There's more than one letter. There should only ever been one letter. And that should have ended it. Should have. The whole family should have blown up.

[Caitlin]

I thought this was a good one, that we should answer and kind of just give some advice. I know this is our anonymous secrets one, but I. Yeah, I wanted to save this one because I was like, she. I feel like she needs some advice.

[Tyler]

Not to say that we're going to give the best advice, but sure.

[Caitlin]

So it says, I'm scared to be a mom again after having to place my ch. My children up for adoption five years ago.

[Tyler]

Children.

[Caitlin]

She might have meant child, though, too. And so when I saw that, I was like, you know, I don't. I feel like it is a scary thing. It can also be a very, like, exciting thing too. But I think my biggest words of advice would be to. I mean, obviously, just because you place a child for adoption or you relinquish your rights or whatever, doesn't mean that you're never allowed to have children again or be a parent again, you know, or whatever the case is. But I think if you're scared, I think it's understandable. But I think that you need to really. I mean, I would involve myself heavily in therapy and kind of try to process.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I was gonna say, I think the. The. The one thing that would probably need to be done is you have to, like, grieve.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You gotta grieve and you gotta grieve and give yourself grace and just, like, go and.

[Caitlin]

Unfortunately, I feel like with adoption, you grieve for a lifetime.

[Tyler]

You do. But I think maybe you should. Maybe you need to get the. The good assets and tool in your tool belt.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

To grieve in a healthy way before jumping in. That's probably why it's scary, because it's like, oh, my God, I don't know how this is going to react. Because, listen, I think anyone who's placed a child, like, they know, like it's, it's. And you have your own children that you're parenting that you're not afterwards. It's a huge potential PTSD trigger thing.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Because your body holds onto that trauma. Especially women. I don't know a lot of birth dads that whatever. But like, women, they carry their bodies. I mean, like, you know, the cells of that infant is forever in your body. And so I really feel like if you don't, like, process that loss, that it'll. It's. It's. I know. I know why it's scary. And it'll be scary even if you do process a loss, but give yourself, like, time to do it. Because I think a lot of times society wants specifically birth mothers to just kind of just. That's it. Just.

[Caitlin]

Right. Forget about it. As if you knew that. Forget about it.

[Tyler]

And they expect you just like, well, get over it. Get over it. Be done. Move on with your life.

[Caitlin]

That never happens, by the way.

[Tyler]

Guys, Are you kidding me? Okay. Any. And I'm not comparing, like the death of a child to one that's living, but the body doesn't know the difference. The grieving process is still the same. The loss is the loss. So tell any parent who lost a child. I'm not through adoption, through death, whatever. To get the. Over it. Get over it.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. I couldn't imagine looking any. Anybody in the face saying. And saying that.

[Tyler]

So there should be no difference between you telling a birth mother, we'll get over it. You chose it. Get over it and move on your life. And then you go and. And a woman who lost a child to death, permanently, whatever. It's like, it's.

[Caitlin]

But then you're telling them to get the over.

[Tyler]

It's the same thing because. Because yeah. Is still the loss.

[Caitlin]

But I think, I think setting yourself just with a support system to talk about what are. Why are. What are your fears? And to know that, like, it's normal to have those fears. I mean, it is. It's.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Because I think going back in time, I wish we would have known more about the post traumatic. The post traumatic things that happen after you place. After you relinquish. And I feel like if we would have known all those things, I don't think you would have had half the issues. You had a postpartum, I don't think.

[Caitlin]

No, I was gonna say. Because what I'm saying. And then, you know, when I went Went to, you know, when I put myself in some intensive therapy programs and stuff. It was there that I learned about how pregnancy is. It was a trigger for me. It was very. Because obvious. My first one was very.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Caitlin]

It was traumatic. It was trauma.

[Tyler]

Your body only knows.

[Caitlin]

And then relinquishing. It was trauma and it was just loads of trauma.

[Tyler]

And then surrounding a birth and pregnancy.

[Caitlin]

Right, Pregnancy, birth, all of it. And then you throw a couple miscarriages into that, you know, after Nova. But like, like it's just. Yeah. So it's like I had a lot of trauma just involving pregnancy.

[Tyler]

Yeah, exactly. Which I feel like if we would have known because after finding out later in life. Yeah.

[Caitlin]

I was like, it makes sense that.

[Tyler]

It'S 30 adoptees are 30 times more likely to commit suicide. And it's like 29, 33, whatever. Very close. That birth mothers. Birth mothers and adoptees are, are literally neck and neck.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

They are the likelihood of suicide ideation and all these things. And it's like, listen, if we would have known that.

[Caitlin]

Right. I could have worked on that.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I don't think you would have had postpartum with Nova or maybe not as.

[Caitlin]

Severe or I would have known to have a support system.

[Tyler]

You would have been navigating it in the right way.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

But they don't tell anybody about the post traumatic issues that happen after for birth mothers after relinquishing and then society saying, telling adoptees be grateful. Oh, you're minimizing their. You're minimizing and actually you're taking away their emotional autonomy to feel sad about something. You're robbing it of them. You're saying you can't be sad about that. No, no.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

And then they tell birth mothers the same thing.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Get over it. You made the decision. Get over it. So you're not allowed to be sad about. So you have society telling you that you're not allowed to feel what you're feeling. What you're feeling is wrong, which makes you disconnected with yourself. You're not aligned.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You're, you're. You think you're going fucking nuts.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Literally.

[Tyler]

Wow. The whole world's telling me I should probably get over this. And here I am. Oh my God. Maybe I shouldn't.

[Caitlin]

So I mean, how many times I tell you? Like I felt like I'm going crazy. I'm literally going nuts. And so I think like I'm psycho.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So I think people like robbing that you're stealing it from these people. And I. And it's weird that you're not. You don't go and steal this. You don't go and steal this from everyone else. You let veterans be sad about, you know, you let all these other people who have these traumatic experiences, society allows them to have them. We have aaa. Or they get in a huge circle.

[Caitlin]

And talk about how whatever their struggles are. Yeah, for you.

[Tyler]

But no, A birth mother gets in there. Well, get over it. You made a choice, doctor. We'd be grateful you're not dead. You could be in a dumpster.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

You got aborted.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Tyler]

It's like, what the. Why are we doing this?

[Caitlin]

Yeah. So I think, I think definitely, I think get a. Get a support system around you for sure. And to process where, you know, where the fears are coming from. And trying to figure that out.

[Tyler]

I personally think every single birth mother and every single adoptee in therapy, period, your life, especially for the adoptee, started out as trauma birth mother. You're becoming a mother started out as a traumatic experience. And that requires therapy.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, it does.

[Tyler]

Hello. Like, come on, let's go. And I think we should be supportive. More supportive that instead of shuffling it off and minimizing and tell them to get over it.

[Caitlin]

And there's. I mean, there needs lots of change on that whole. Yeah, but so I thought like that was important to talk about her comment or, you know, her message. So that is all we have for you guys this time.

[Tyler]

We kind of went all over the place, didn't we?

[Caitlin]

No, we talked about your dad and then, you know, about being parents. And then, you know, I wanted to do the anonymous questions and stuff too. So we. We are. Me and Ty are actually gonna go see a movie. So that'll be fun. Hopefully I don't fall asleep. That's what I get for staying up at five in the till. Five in the morning. Freaking morning last night. Stupid. But you guys, please make sure that you like and like and subscribe and rate our show, please. That helps us out a ton. And we love to get the feedback and see what you guys are thinking. And our Patreon page, don't forget that you guys can watch. You can watch these episodes a week after they. The audio airs on our Patreon page. And then also we have a Facebook fan page. It's Caitlin and Tyler's fan page on Facebook. And we have a lot of new people in there and people that have also been there through this whole entire journey of ours. And it's a really fun and safe.

[Tyler]

Community and we love to hear from you. I love when I see the comments, people. I've been following you. So I'm like, this is.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, yeah, I love it.

[Tyler]

I love it.

[Caitlin]

So you guys can check us out all there. And we love you guys and we're so thankful for your support and we'll be talking to you guys next week.

[Tyler]

Bye.

[Caitlin]

Goodbye. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.

[Tyler]

This is the mindset.

[Caitlin]

Free. This is the mantra.

[Tyler]

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[Caitlin]

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[Tyler]

Huzzah. Pluto TV. Stream now.

[Caitlin]

Pay.

[Tyler]

Never. You're welcome. Hi, I'm Adam Rippon, and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I probably, probably should have kept myself. Nothing's off limits. Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I? Unclear. But if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations. You found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.