Can't Right Their Wrong feat. Maci Bookout & Natalie Gard

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cate & Ty Break It Down – "Can't Right Their Wrong" Feat. Maci Bookout & Natalie Gard

In the April 9, 2025 episode of "Cate & Ty Break It Down", hosts Tyler and Catelynn Baltierra delve deep into personal growth, parenting, and overcoming adversity alongside special guests Maci Bookout and Natalie Gard. This episode, titled "Can't Right Their Wrong," offers a heartfelt exploration of navigating life beyond the spotlight of reality television, addressing topics ranging from mental health to effective co-parenting.

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1. Introduction and Guest Background

The episode kicks off with a warm welcome from Kate and Ty as they introduce guests Maci Bookout and Natalie Gard. The conversation highlights the strong connections between the hosts and guests, grounded in shared experiences and mutual support.

Kate [00:38]: “I feel honored. I'm like, you got Macy. You got Natalie. Just met you.”

2. Origin of the Podcast "Can't Right Their Wrong"

Maci and Natalie recount how their professional backgrounds in television and radio converged to create their true-crime podcast. Their shared battle with PCOS served as a pivotal point for collaboration, leading to the birth of their joint venture.

Natalie [01:53]: “I didn't know it at the time, but we both suffer from PCOS.”

3. Creating the Podcast

The duo discusses the challenges and triumphs of launching a podcast, emphasizing authenticity and the importance of passion in content creation. They highlight the support from their educational institutions and the value of networking.

Ty [15:35]: “Stay authentic. There is more of a benefit than you could ever imagine till you do it.”

4. Navigating Fame and Public Scrutiny

Kate and Ty share their experiences of being under constant public scrutiny due to their reality TV fame. They elaborate on the emotional toll of being judged as parents and the resilience required to maintain authenticity amidst negativity.

Kate [06:22]: “Nothing brings out your claws more than someone judging your kids or judging your parenting style.”

5. Dealing with Negative Comments and Haters

The conversation delves into handling online negativity. The hosts and guests discuss strategies to cope with hate, emphasizing the importance of focusing on positive impact rather than detracting comments.

Ty [09:20]: “But I want you to have all of it so you can actually form an educated opinion.”

6. Importance of Mental Health and Therapy

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to mental health. The guests share personal stories of trauma and the transformative power of therapy, advocating for increased mental health awareness and accessibility.

Ty [62:09]: “Therapy is just filling that toolbox. And that's whether it's trauma, whether it's something in the future.”

7. Parenting Styles and Co-parenting Dynamics

Kate and Ty discuss their parenting approaches, highlighting the balance between setting boundaries and fostering open communication with their children. They emphasize the significance of allowing children to form their own opinions about their parents' past.

Macy [48:40]: “You literally letting Bentley grow and make his own opinion of his father for what it is.”

8. Discussing Sensitive Topics with Children

The hosts explore the evolution of sex education within their households, illustrating how early and honest conversations with their children have empowered them with knowledge and understanding.

Macy [32:21]: “And asks the questions. When she was 5, it clicked in her mind and she looked at Ty and I and she said, oh, so you guys just made it.”

9. Personal Traumas and Healing Journeys

Maci bravely shares her past experiences with sexual abuse, highlighting the long-term impacts of trauma and the essential role of therapy in healing. This segment underscores the importance of believing survivors and providing them with the support they need.

Natalie [51:46]: “But no, no. No, no. No repercussions forever.”

10. Advice for Aspiring Podcasters

In their closing remarks, Ty and Kate offer invaluable advice for individuals looking to start their own podcasts. Emphasizing authenticity, passion, and resilience, they encourage listeners to stay true to their intentions and prioritize mental well-being.

Macy [16:15]: “I'm very much a list maker.”

Ty [16:19]: “Stay loyal to your intention.”

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kate [00:35]: “Maybe dance a little.”
• Ty [20:13]: “You've lost her.”
• Natalie [50:58]: “I've never been, like, face to face with it or lived with someone in active addiction.”
• Ty [43:25]: “It's the one thing you can control.”

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Conclusion and Future Directions

The episode concludes with heartfelt thanks exchanged between the hosts and guests, reinforcing the therapeutic benefits of sharing personal stories. They discuss potential future collaborations and the continued mission to break down complex issues through open dialogue.

Kate [64:00]: “That's why. Perfect partner.”

Macy [63:42]: “But I just want to say thank you because, I mean, you don't really know us.”

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"Can't Right Their Wrong" serves as a compelling testament to the power of vulnerability, authentic storytelling, and the relentless pursuit of personal growth. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, Cate & Ty, alongside Maci and Natalie, provide listeners with both inspiration and practical insights into overcoming life's challenges.

Transcript

[Kate]

The time is here.

[Ty]

Are y'all nervous like we were?

[Kate]

No, I'm not nervous. I'm more excited. We've been waiting for this for a long time. A long time.

[Ty]

Yeah. Yeah, we're excited.

[Kate]

Yeah. So I'm excited to have you guys on. Kate and Ty. Break it down. We're just gonna break some stuff down. That's what we do.

[Macy]

Yes. We're pretty good at it.

[Ty]

Maybe dance a little.

[Natalie]

I could totally.

[Kate]

Maybe.

[Macy]

I'm not about twerking.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Macy]

But, you know, maybe one day.

[Kate]

I appreciate guys coming on, though. I really do. I'm like. I'm like. I feel honored. I'm like, you got Macy. You got Natalie. Just met you.

[Macy]

You know what I mean?

[Ty]

Nowhere.

[Natalie]

Thank you.

[Ty]

Very excited. I'm interested to know what y'all want to know about us.

[Kate]

Well, first off, how did you guys, like, get connected? Like, what happened?

[Natalie]

So I am in radio. That was my. That's always been my profession. We actually went to Chattanooga State together, but at different times, but in the same program.

[Kate]

Oh.

[Natalie]

So I obviously grew up loving Macy Love, you know, watching the show and.

[Kate]

Oh, so you watched the show before?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ty]

She always. She would always tell me when we first really got to know each other. She's like, you're the reason I didn't get pregnant as a teenager.

[Natalie]

Literally, I was scared out of my mind.

[Kate]

We did something right.

[Macy]

I'm glad it is something right.

[Natalie]

That is why I did not lose my virginity in high school, but so I've always been in radio. And she was at an event.

[Macy]

Who?

[Natalie]

Big Al was there. And I was like, hey, do you want to meet him? Get a picture with him? And so they did. And I just emailed her business account with the picture because I figured she'd want it. And literally, a few months later, she was like, hey, I want to talk about PCOS on the radio.

[Macy]

Because we both.

[Natalie]

I didn't know it at the time, but we both suffer from pcos.

[Ty]

Yeah. PCOS awareness day.

[Kate]

Okay, so you guys both have pcos, and that's kind of how the whole little bridge happened.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So she. She came on my radio show. We did a segment. It was on. It was on the show. And then a few years went by, and we just stayed in touch on social media. Really? And I just put out on socials one day. I was like, would anyone be interested in a true crime podcast based out of Chattanooga, Tennessee?

[Ty]

Like, would you listen to.

[Natalie]

Would you listen to it? Yeah. And I was just gonna do it. And she commented, and she was like, Call me right now. And so I called her and that's kind of how it was born.

[Ty]

I'm like, I'll be.

[Macy]

Well, plus. Yeah. Like, you're just like me. I'm very intrigued by the whole like murder mystery stuff and unsolved cases and stuff like that. So, yeah, I'd be jumping on that train too.

[Ty]

And then I'm pretty sure our professor that we both had in college, like, commented something on it and was like, something along the lines of like, oh, I see something's in the work works. Like knew that that's what. When I said call me, he was like. He already knew. He was like, oh, this is going to happen. Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, that's been awesome too. Like, they. When we first started out, they. Any equipment from the media technologies department that they have, like, if they're upgrading, they'll always like, we can just be like, hey, do you have any of these you're not using? Like, they've been very, very helpful and supportive, which is awesome. This means we're. Were we good students or bad students?

[Kate]

I was gonna say your professor is. Yeah, yeah.

[Macy]

I think you're good. Yeah. Yeah. Also. That's funny. So just through, like networking, you know, networking.

[Ty]

Networking. Networking, networking. I kind of like that.

[Kate]

Doesn't it sound better?

[Macy]

It kind of does.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Macy]

People will tend to know that I have issue with like some big.

[Ty]

I can't help it.

[Kate]

Then I gotta compartmentalizing.

[Macy]

Yeah. You know, it's like my brain doesn't work that great. Like I need slowed out.

[Kate]

And you know, she does a lot of Siri.

[Macy]

Oh, for sure.

[Kate]

She'll be like, type it. And she like reorganize.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Macy]

I struggle earlier.

[Kate]

Yes, yes.

[Macy]

Yeah, Exactly. Great example. I can't speak sometimes, you know, just the big words or whatever. So that's cool. So through all that, then it started.

[Kate]

And you have experience in radio, so you kind of like, you know, I mean, you think about it, podcasting is pretty much radio on steroids. Right, right, right. Yeah. So, I mean, you guys have a little bit.

[Natalie]

I'm radio, she's tv.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Together. Made a great podcast.

[Ty]

Podcasting is exactly what we both do with a little less regulation. Yeah. And limitations. That's funner, you know, like definitely.

[Macy]

You know, especially. It's kind of nice too, to just like do something outside of the TV world, you know, that's different. And we can talk more in depth about certain things. I think that's what really drove me and Ty to want to do it is because we can go more in depth in certain situations of our lives. And, you know, I mean, yours is different because you're covering cases, but.

[Kate]

But in the same way, people didn't know you were into crime as much as you are. So now you're able to kind of showcase with the podcast platform that, hey, you didn't know this about me, but, you know, here I am, like, it's awesome.

[Ty]

I'm a queen Sleuther.

[Macy]

Well, I can tell you right now, if you, you know, if there's any rumors you need to squash, you can always hit Ty and I up and we'll just keep bringing you on anytime, you know, because those are.

[Ty]

There's plenty of those.

[Macy]

Yeah. And because, I mean, you. You think about it like we've been on a TV journey with each other for 16, 17 years.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

You know, we've been friends for that long.

[Ty]

Literally.

[Macy]

We have been through hell and back.

[Ty]

Everything. Yeah.

[Macy]

You know, and it's so. It's. It's cool to be able to do something different.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Macy]

With you and.

[Ty]

Yeah. Together.

[Macy]

Yes. Really cool.

[Ty]

Other than seeing each other in a different. Whether we're in pajamas, eating pizza or filming.

[Macy]

Right.

[Ty]

You know, like, either or. So this is, like, cool doing. Doing something different.

[Kate]

It's one of those things where we. It's the only thing that we, like. No one else knows. This experience of being on TV for 15 years, raising kids, which I have to say, it's like one of those things where it's like, people don't get that we are doing the most triggering, vulnerable, precious thing. Artists with the world just criticizing and literally focal pointing on our parenting, which is the most. I mean, nothing brings out your claws more than someone judging your kids or judging your parenting style. So I don't think people get the scope of intensity and how hard it really is.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Show is.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Macy]

That's all it's about.

[Ty]

And to. To remain authentic throughout as well. Like, knowing that just helping one person makes up for all the 500,000 dick wads that are hating on you. You know what I mean? Like, just to help the one person or be relatable for one person.

[Kate]

Yeah. But it takes a special, like, I don't know, perseverance, character, whatever, to be able to just kind of, you know, eliminate or try to, like, filter out 500 negative comments just to get the. The one positive point across to somebody else. Like, it's difficult. I mean, it takes a special kind of tenacity to be able to, like, handle all that because it's difficult, especially about Parenting. It's like, nothing gets you more fired up than someone saying, judging your parenting. And when you think about it, that's what our whole jobs have been. Yeah, they've been judging our parenting. That's where our job requires the judgment of viewers. And it's like, yeah, it's hard.

[Macy]

That's why most of the time I say to people, like, well, thank God they. They thank God that these are not your children.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And they're mine.

[Ty]

Right, Exactly.

[Macy]

It's my job, not yours.

[Ty]

I have. I feel like she and I. I was. When you're not in the TV world and. And then you do something like this, remember having to tell her, like, yeah, stay out of the comment section. Don't read it, don't read it.

[Natalie]

And I fell for it a few times, and we had conversations, and it's.

[Ty]

Like, no, it happens.

[Kate]

Well, it's different than radio. You don't have someone, like, on Instagram, like, right away being able to comment on stuff that you're passionate about.

[Ty]

Well, and also, I mean, I come as, you know, a co host, a partner now like a best friend to her. But in the beginning, it's like, oh, by the way, I also come with a shitload of haters. Welcome.

[Kate]

How did you navigate that? Did you see it?

[Natalie]

Just trial and error. She would be like, don't look at the comments. And I would obviously look at them because I try to go, I am.

[Ty]

Delete them before she could see them.

[Natalie]

Yeah. And just. She's just like, no, all press is good press. It doesn't matter. They're still talking about you.

[Ty]

And I have. And most of the time, they have no idea what they're actually talking about.

[Kate]

Well, it's coming from ignorance, which is why I feel like doing a podcast is important, because if you see a really heavy opinion out there, a public opinion, you can correct it or give more data information about why that's happening. Which I feel like is kind of important in our journey with Teen mom, because it's like, now we get five minutes of screen time each episode. It's one of those things where now we have to like, okay, how do.

[Ty]

We fill in the blank?

[Kate]

Yeah, because people deserve to have the blanks filled in. I feel like, because they've been so, you know, loyal to our story and following it, like, we have a. I feel like a duty to, like, you guys got quarter percent of the truth. Here's the rest of it.

[Ty]

Yeah. Or like, if. If you're go. Everyone is gonna have an opinion.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

But it's like, here, let me give you all of it so you can actually form an educated opinion. It's still. I don't have to like your opinion.

[Macy]

Right.

[Ty]

But I want you to have all of the. Get all of it first, then tell me how you really feel.

[Kate]

You're obviously not in TV world, so all the comments, all the negative stuff, like, I mean, that's hard. That's hard to handle.

[Natalie]

It was very difficult at first, just trying to. Trying to. You know, when you get a notification, you want to know what it is. You want to open your phone and see what somebody said. And it was. Especially when we first came out, we want to hear what we're doing right, what we're doing wrong. And then some of it's just pure hate and trying to get past it.

[Kate]

Like, hate with no purpose. Like, you're not. You're not giving any constructive criticism. You're literally just typing this to try to hurt me. Which is why I kind of think, like. Like, if you're on Reddit, you're probably a piece of shit. Like, I mean, I don't know why you go to an anonymous forum page to talk shit about random people. And I didn't even know about Reddit until, like, a year ago. And someone's like, oh, yeah, there's a whole.

[Macy]

It was a few years ago, but.

[Kate]

Yeah, yeah, there's a whole teen mom like, thing. And I'm. Yeah. Oh, that's weird.

[Ty]

No, random.

[Kate]

I mean, go on my Instagram and talk shit to me.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Why are you hiding in that corner? I don't understand what you're doing over there. You got no power over there. It's anonymous, so I thought it was weird.

[Ty]

I often wonder why people will argue in my comment section with people that they don't know about someone they don't know.

[Macy]

Yep. It makes absolute no sense at all.

[Ty]

Who has time for that?

[Kate]

That's what I'm saying.

[Ty]

Like, I can only handle my own. I can't be worried about somebody else's.

[Kate]

And I never once actually commented, like, I hate you, mother. Like, I never, never. I never even had the urge to comment something, like, negative or bad. So I don't really get the ever.

[Macy]

I don't either. Because if I see something, if I see something I don't like or I disagree with, I just keep scrolling.

[Kate]

Yeah, I think what it is, though, it's this easy access to collective, like, tribal. Oh, I find all these people that share my same opinion. So now I feel validated. And it's like, it's Almost. It's toxic, though, because if you stay in that little bubble like a Reddit page, you're not. You're not gaining any outside perspective. You're not gaining any, you know, deeper context. You're literally just confirmation bias. And you're just doing it to yourself, like confused on what the purpose of it is and why you feel the need to, like, go hang out with a bunch of people who you don't know.

[Macy]

It makes them feel full of hate.

[Kate]

That you're only connected with, hate you're not connected with. Oh, I love the show. So you're connected by the criticizing of people you don't know.

[Ty]

Yeah, I think it's some sort of validation that they might. One must not be getting in their real life.

[Natalie]

And she told me that she's like, these people are commenting on things that they have no idea. And that, I mean, that's so sad. You know, I've come to. Instead of being sad from those comments, I feel sad for them.

[Macy]

Right? Yeah, I think. Yeah. Because I think even I know for myself, when I started this whole TV journey and stuff, it took years to, you know, you. To grow thick skin to it. Like, I. There was a period in my life I had to take two years off social media, you know, because. And eventually now it's to the point and has been for a while, but I post stuff, and if you don't like it, you don't like it. I don't go back and read the comments, Nothing. Unless I see somebody I know, then I read theirs, because it'll pop up, you know, But I'm like, I post what I want to post. If you don't like it, I don't really care because this is my page and I'm not going to read it.

[Kate]

I think what it comes down to, too, is like, they don't understand that their perception of me is just a reflection of them, and they don't even realize that. They're almost don't even get it. Like, you understand that you're projecting right now, you're talking yourself in the mirror, but you're using me as a really easy catalyst to do it and feel good about it. Because other people are like, yeah, you're right. And it's like, yeah, I'm right. And it's like, you're not, but okay, it's fine.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

So I feel like, yeah, like your perception of me is just. It's literally a reflection of yourself, which, the faster you understand that, the quicker you can maybe heal some of your hater. Vibe or whatever the hell is wrong with you because something's going on. But you actually had, I have to say, because that two years you took off social media like that for me. Yeah, it was really good for you. But I also felt like, Like, I think it would be different if that stuff happened nowadays because I've never seen someone get so much hate for attacking their mental health. And like, literally, like, you, like, I mean, people like, oh, yeah, they went to rehab. Good for them. And it's like you went to rehab or treatment and you were just like.

[Macy]

Yeah, it's interesting how it's like people. Yeah, it is. You know, you say that and it's people that go to rehab for addiction problems.

[Ty]

People are proud. Yeah, yeah.

[Macy]

But if you're going for your mental health postpartum, which is just like, they're both not diseases. Right. Then people look down on you, say, oh, you're selfish or you don't care about your career.

[Ty]

You just need to get over it.

[Macy]

Yeah. It's like, how does that even make any sense?

[Kate]

You know, I just feel like the hate you got was really unjustified because like you said, we celebrate these recovering addicts and we celebrate them going to rehab and getting help, but a mom who has postpartum depression and is a birth mom and has generational trauma going.

[Ty]

Back, I mean, and is also doing it in front of the entire world.

[Macy]

And being judged on top of that. Yeah. Like, it was. It was a lot. But I think that is interesting. Just, haters are always going to hate. And I always tell myself, like, well, haters, they just study, keep us famous because they're spreading our name all over the place, you know, like, whatever. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It really is.

[Kate]

But do you find yourself not reading this stuff now? Yeah.

[Macy]

Right, right.

[Kate]

Don't even open the door because it ain't worth it. Yeah. Sometimes it feels like the world is moving at hyperspeed and you can't keep.

[Macy]

Up because it's one thing, then another.

[Kate]

And don't forget the meeting and the.

[Macy]

Yoga class and the dinner reservation.

[Natalie]

But then.

[Macy]

You get into the all.

[Kate]

New Nissan Murano and you feel the.

[Macy]

Breeze from the panoramic moonroof while the.

[Kate]

Massaging seats melt away the tension of the day.

[Macy]

And you realize that sometimes the greatest rush is not rushing at all.

[Kate]

Shop the all New Murano at NissanUSA.com.

[Macy]

Panoramic Moonroof Massaging Leather appointed seats are available.

[Ty]

Features.

[Macy]

So how long you guys been doing your podcast? For two years, right?

[Ty]

Yes.

[Macy]

Okay.

[Kate]

And what do you think Was like, what do you. What's your advice for us? Help us out. Like, what do you wish? Yeah. What do you wish you would have known or done differently?

[Ty]

Stay authentic. There is. I would say there's more of a benefit than you could ever imagine till you do it in, like, the trial and error in the troubleshooting, in the. Make sure you're confident and comfortable with what you're talking about. Yeah. But I think as long as you, like, keep your. What your direction is, what your goal is for each episode, I feel like y'all are going to be great.

[Kate]

So stay loyal to your intention.

[Ty]

Yeah. Yeah. Your purpose for it.

[Macy]

And make a list. I'm very much a list maker.

[Ty]

Yeah. No, that's how I am, too. Like, if it were me and Taylor. He's not really a list. I'm a list person.

[Macy]

Yep.

[Kate]

Yes. I'm like that. I'm a list person.

[Ty]

I'm making a list. Yeah. You know, it'll be just fine.

[Natalie]

I mean, yeah, you know, you've been in this world of, you know, production and things like that, as long as you're yourself, people will love you or hate you, but your. Their name. Your name is still in their mouth.

[Ty]

So.

[Kate]

Yeah. And honestly, if they hate me, well, then, you know, you're just weeding out the people. Like, you're. I love. Let the maggots rise up so I can. It's easier that way.

[Macy]

I love.

[Kate]

Show me your hate so that way I can go.

[Ty]

I would also say, too, just like, in. With anything in life, like, make sure that you don't overwork yourself. Where. Because sometimes we've even had periods where it's like what we were talking about earlier before we were recording. Like, people think, oh, you come and you sit down, you talk for an hour, and then you leave and you go home. And it's just. That's. What a pot. No, there's, like, a lot of work that goes into making a podcast and publishing a podcast, especially a good one. But give yourself room to, like, rest and breathe and grace to say, you know what? I don't want to put something out, just to put something out.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

And if you're not feeling passionate about what you're going to be talking about or who you're going to be talking to, then give it a week and try again next. But you know what I mean, don't force it. Just make sure that.

[Kate]

Which I feel like. Yeah, I feel like for us, like, I'm loyal to the authenticity, I'm not loyal to the deadline. And if that deadline has to be pushed in order for my authenticity to take over, then that's what I'll do.

[Macy]

And, like. And like, how you said about being passionate about it. Like, I want to talk about things that I'm passionate about.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Macy]

And that I'm educated about. I don't want to be spreading misinformation, and I don't want to sit here and pretend that I'm liking what I'm talking about, because that's not fun.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

You know?

[Ty]

Yes, exactly. I think that's. That's pretty much the baseline. I also feel like you'll learn as you go. Yeah. And that's kind of fun. Yeah. And a bit rewarding, too, because then.

[Natalie]

You can go back and be like, look how shitty that was.

[Ty]

Look how far we are now.

[Kate]

Well, it's one of those things where it's like, you got to be brave enough to be bad at something, definitely at first, and that's how you learn and grow.

[Ty]

Sometimes failures are actually just a bigger push forward.

[Natalie]

Failures are opportunities to learn and grow.

[Ty]

Yes, ma'am.

[Kate]

Yeah. And honestly, failure is. You can't get success without it.

[Ty]

Exactly.

[Kate]

It's impossible. You're gonna go through something, you're gonna fail at something in order to get to the top. So, I mean, it's definitely. It's the journey. Yeah.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Which we're excited about. That's why.

[Macy]

No, I'm excited. Yeah. I'm excited for it.

[Kate]

I almost feel like we're. We've been brewing on this for so long that it's like. We're almost like, okay. Volcano ready to explode.

[Macy]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Going back to the list, I have to write down stuff because he's throwing all these things, and I'm like, whoa, slow down. Okay.

[Kate]

We'll be driving in the car, and she'll be like, listen, I, like, can't even deal with the 8 million subjects that you just covered in 10 minutes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[Macy]

Like, can we just start before.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Four. You know, because he's very much. He jumps all over the place in every direction.

[Kate]

And, you know, I know when you're not listening because I say blue monkey.

[Macy]

I was literally just thinking it.

[Kate]

So I'll be, like, talking. I can tell when she's like, just like. Yeah. Zoned out.

[Macy]

Head nodding with me, I guess. He says secret words and he sees if I go, oh, yeah. And he's like.

[Kate]

It's a way for me to know that. All right, Tara, shut up. Yeah, you're Rambling. Yeah, you need to shut up. So I'll be like, oh, you know. Yeah, about that. Nova's practice and everything. Blue Monkey. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay.

[Ty]

Well, I'm like, really?

[Kate]

You have done that all the time. There's a way of me saying, hey, are you listening to me?

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And then it puts you in a position to be like, I wasn't. I'm sorry. So I'm just going to eliminate it because I know I can talk a lot and really fast. So I'll just say. I'll just add in blue Monkey. And if you go, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm like, oh, yeah, That's a sign.

[Ty]

You've lost her.

[Kate]

I lost a moment. All right, all right.

[Ty]

But then he told. Hilarious.

[Macy]

Then he told me that. What? You used to do that to your mom growing up. You throw out random words.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Because she would. I could tell she's cooking dinner. And I'm like, mah. Did you know that? You know, just going on. And she. And I'd be like, blue Monkey. And she's like, yeah, Ty. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, all right, mom, go to my room now.

[Ty]

Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.

[Macy]

That's great, because Nova's the exact same way. She's like our very talkative, curious, wants to know things, ask questions. I mean, that kid will roll out of bed.

[Ty]

She reminds me so much.

[Macy]

Oh, she is.

[Kate]

My mom tells me the same thing because same.

[Macy]

Like he usually does. We split it up really good. He usually does the morning stuff with the kids and gets them up for school. And I usually do the nighttime things like baths, bedtime. Love it. Love it.

[Kate]

Isn't that nice, though? It feels good.

[Macy]

Yeah. I love it. But, man, there's mornings when Nova, literally, her hair is still fluffed. She could be still wrapped in a blanket. And she's just like, my. You ever. You know, I was think this thing. You ever look at the stars, you just feel really connected because we're part of the stars and our ancestors are a part of the stars. So we're just like really connected to stars.

[Ty]

And I'm like, oh, you're trying to.

[Kate]

Stir your cup of coffee. Yeah, dude.

[Macy]

I'm like, it is 6:05 in the morning. Like, where is it? And she would just go on and on and on. And I love that about her. I do. But sometimes I'm just like. Ever since she was yay big, she just talked, started talking, and she's never stopped.

[Kate]

I taught her blue monkey. I said, nova, if you ever want to just. Just throw it out there and you'll know. Yeah, I did. That's really smart. I'm gonna. Okay, I'm gonna use that. I'm like, go ahead.

[Macy]

I wonder if she's ever used it on me. You know, seriously, Sleep.

[Ty]

Oh, my God. That's.

[Macy]

Are any of one of your kids like that? Like, very, very.

[Ty]

Jade.

[Macy]

Oh, okay.

[Ty]

I feel like her and Nova are actually very similar.

[Macy]

And I didn't realize that they were. I guess it never clicked to me that Nova and Jade are literally nine.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Same age.

[Ty]

Yeah. Nova's, what, January 1st? Y, New Year's Day? And Jade's May 29th. Right. Just right after her.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Ty]

They are close, but they're so similar. So similar. Like, the whole wake up in the morning and, like, just talk about some random thing. It's like this whole philosophy. It's like they spent their whole night.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Like. Like a rabbit hole without the Internet type of thing. And I'm like, jade, give me a second. Like, I literally brushed my teeth yet. And honestly, neither have you. Like, I know.

[Macy]

I'm like, where does all this stuff come from?

[Ty]

Because I'm not a morning person.

[Macy]

Me neither.

[Ty]

Like, don't talk to me.

[Macy]

I mean, I'm more talkative, but I just don't like getting up early. That's my problem.

[Ty]

No, I just. Don't talk to me. Don't look at me.

[Kate]

I need a good 30 minutes. I got up in one of the kids. I. I purposely get up a half hour before getting any of them up.

[Ty]

That's what Taylor does, too.

[Kate]

I need it. I can't handle the chaos. Especially because Nova is the first that gets up. And she is a very, like, dad. I'm like, dude, I can't even.

[Macy]

And now she gets up at 6.

[Kate]

Now I know, because her bearded dragon. Yeah. Now she gotta feed her bearded dragon. So here I am. Get my coffee. Here she comes, going in the fridge and getting lettuce. And I'm like, please don't speak yet.

[Ty]

But she does.

[Kate]

She does.

[Macy]

Yeah. And then I think it's funny. I know we're all on kids right now, but also I think it's funny that, you know, you have a spicy one and I have a spicy one.

[Ty]

Who's the spicy one? Now.

[Macy]

We went over there yesterday at.

[Kate]

Dinner, and we were just. I was. He is.

[Ty]

He's the best ball of fire.

[Macy]

His little remarks and stuff. And, like, Vada, we call her. Like, she's our Mowgli.

[Kate]

Yep. Mowgli.

[Macy]

And she's just a spitfire. She knows what she wants. She knows how to get what she wants. And she doesn't care what you said, what you say, or what you tell her.

[Ty]

She's gonna get it.

[Kate]

Vada's gonna learn the hard way.

[Ty]

That's Maverick. That is Maverick. He will. I can literally see his gears turning. And he's like, risk versus reward. Don't care what the risk is, gonna get it. Whatever happens, happens. I'll deal with it after. Whatever. It's fine.

[Natalie]

And they're so sneaky. One time, I was watching them, Mav and Jade, and they were like, yeah, mom lets us drive the golf cart all the time. And I let them because I'm so gullible. I let them do whatever and they were not supposed to drive.

[Kate]

How did you find out? Did you say, hey? Oh, yeah, they're just riding the golf cart?

[Ty]

I was like. Because I didn't know this, but it was okay, right? Mixie's like, you gotta be kidding me. Yeah.

[Macy]

So what'd you say to her? Get them off. No, they're not.

[Ty]

No, no, I didn't.

[Natalie]

She waited until she got home.

[Ty]

Yeah. I said, hey there. Did y. Say that? Tell them I knew. You can tell they talked her in or told her that it was okay, even though they knew it wasn't okay. But, yeah, they'll. They'll. Especially together, they will find a way to manipulate the situation, especially if they know, for instance, like, they had never been alone. Like, with Natalie, it's always just been all of us. And it's like, oh, let's see if we can get this one over on her, you know?

[Macy]

And they're like, hey, Ma. Yeah, we want her to babysit again.

[Ty]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Macy]

We're gonna tell her that we could drive the Suburban, you know, crazy stuff, you know?

[Ty]

Yeah, we could totally ride our dirt bikes in the rocks with no helmets on.

[Macy]

It's fine.

[Kate]

Does Matt. Does Mav and Jayla. Do they ever. Are they close with Bentley's other siblings?

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

Are they.

[Macy]

That's good.

[Kate]

That's really good.

[Ty]

They actually. Anytime his siblings are at. With Ryan, it's like, can we go to Ryan's?

[Natalie]

Can we go to meet me and Papa's?

[Ty]

Like, they're big buddies.

[Macy]

That's super cool that they can all be involved because they're all. Yeah, like Bentley siblings.

[Ty]

Yeah, it's so funny because they're always like, man, our family's kind of weird, but it's kind of cool. Like, we have a Lot of family. I don't think my friends have family. Like, their family's not like this. I'm like, no, probably not.

[Kate]

Because collectively, Belly has how many siblings?

[Ty]

One, two, three, four, five, six. Step. So really? Seven.

[Kate]

Six.

[Ty]

Seven. Yeah.

[Kate]

I only have one sister, so I'm like, that's.

[Ty]

I only have one brother.

[Kate]

Yeah. I mean, that's literally insane. Like, holy crap.

[Ty]

It is.

[Kate]

So the fact that they can all get along and stuff, like, that's cool.

[Ty]

Yes. I mean, Bentley is much older than all of them, and I. He is very much on the same page as me.

[Macy]

Like, if.

[Ty]

If I ever found out I was going to have a birth, a child, y'all need to check on me. I might end up in a facility somewhere. Bentley's like, no more babies, please.

[Macy]

Oh, is he over it now?

[Ty]

Yeah. He's like, this is too much. It's too much.

[Macy]

Well, yeah, because you think about it like his. The youngest is going to be born soon, and he's going to be 16 years older. That was like me and my brother Nick.

[Kate]

Yeah, that was me.

[Ty]

But that's what Bentley said. He's like, holy crap. So technically, like, I'm 16 now, and this baby is like, you were 16 with me. I'm like, yep. Could you imagine moving out and taking care of this said baby? And he's like, absolutely not. I'm like, yep.

[Macy]

There you go. Kate and Ty Break it down is sponsored by Better help. So sometimes when you're looking to go to therapy, it can be scary. You might not know where to go, how to find a good therapist, and maybe your life's really busy and you don't have time just going and sitting somewhere in an office for an hour. I know for us and having three kids and extracurricular activities, it's hard to leave the house for an hour and drive 30 minutes or whatever to go see a therapist. And better help can help with a lot of those things. Therapy should feel accessible and not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense, and it can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Me, myself, I have used better help, and I loved the experience. I loved being able to find a therapist that really fit my needs and being able to switch therapists at any time if I didn't feel like it was a good match. Also, better help is convenient, too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus switch therapists at any time. With over 30, 000 therapists BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Giving served over 5 million people globally. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com break it down to get 10% off your first month. That's better. Help. H E L P.com break it down.

[Kate]

Any of Bentley's, Anyone in his school, like, they. What do you. What are you seeing as far as teen pregnancy? Is it down? Is it up? I was curious about that yesterday.

[Ty]

I think overall, not even just in Bentley school, but like, you know, friends that he plays other sports and stuff with that go to other schools. I think overall it's down. But I also think that the resources available for kids to find other education paths and programs and things kind of eliminate the awareness of it or people knowing about it, not because they're hiding it, but there are many more resources available now. But also I think the climate's changed. You know, the conversations are different. And with social media and Internet, I feel like kids are exposed to so many things earlier than even we were. And it's kind of forcing conversations to happen. So, I mean, just like our show too. So I think a bit more responsibility and smart decision, smarter decisions are being made.

[Kate]

Has Bentley like ever asked you like, or like mentioned to you about like, why are we doing this stupid show? Why are you still doing it? Or like anything negative, like any kind of. You know what I mean? Cuz as our kids get older, nova's gonna be 10.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And then we're kind of like, you know, and there's days where her, her mic and she just. I'm like, so I'm like, how do we navigate?

[Macy]

She also knows too, if you don't want to film, you don't have to.

[Kate]

Yeah. She has the freedom to go in her room. Yeah.

[Ty]

Our kids know, even if they're like, okay, I'm okay with it. And then they're like five minutes later, change my mind. All right.

[Macy]

Right, cool.

[Ty]

Like you never ever have to. No, he doesn't hate it. I mean, it is one of those, like, oh man, I just got home from school and they're filming. But he'll just, you know, go up to his room or.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Eat a snack, you know, off camera or whatever. But he's never really asked why. I think because honestly, I think it's because of just the conversations that we have while we're filming. And then also when people in public will come up to us. He's always just kind of heard like, oh my God, you know, I was a teen mom too. And you guys helped me so much. Or he hears, you know, the moms that are like, my son or daughter was 15 years old and with. If the show wasn't on, like, I would have never talked to them about.

[Macy]

Yeah, we've gotten that cycle.

[Ty]

Like, y'all gave me a way in to have that conversation. So I think he's always kind of known that that's. That's why, you know, is hopefully to be relatable, to help someone or to make someone realize they're not alone in certain things that they're going through.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Whether it be that they relate to me or y'all or any other person that's, you know, crazy and brave enough to share their story on the show, we all have something different to offer. But I think he's just grown up hearing that and seeing it, so I don't. He's never asked that.

[Macy]

And to go back to about, like, people are. I feel like our age that are having kids and stuff. It does. We're talking to our children more so because we're learning that children are not so stupid and they're actually really smart. We're starting to talk to them younger, which I think is amazing. Like, people sometimes look at me and Ty like we're crazy.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But, like, our 10 year old, she knows what sex is. She knows how it works, that there needs to be a sperm and an egg. She knows that there's protection out there. She knows about birth control. She. And it's all because she is genuinely driven it.

[Kate]

Really.

[Macy]

Yes. And asks the questions. When she was 5, it clicked in her mind and she looked at Ty and I and she said, oh, so you guys just made it.

[Kate]

She's watching. She's watching.

[Macy]

She plays horses. You got to make it says, oh, click, mate, and they make a new horse.

[Natalie]

She made it.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So Ty and I looked at each other, I said, that's it.

[Natalie]

We made it.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And eventually she would ask more questions and it would lead into like, well, I can't lie to her.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

You know, babies don't grow in your belly or come out your belly button. Like, I'm not going to lie. You know it.

[Ty]

Actually, I'm the same way.

[Kate]

Yeah. That led us into. Into her learning that we're like primates. Because she's like. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, you were animals. And she's like, whoa. What?

[Ty]

I'm an animal?

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

As much as she loves animals, you know, she's like, oh, yeah. Yes, I'm an animal.

[Macy]

And I Think it's good. I do, too, because she says it now. She even says, like. She said she talks about it a lot more so lately. And she says, I don't think I ever want to have kids. She said, I really want to be the cool aunt.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

That has all the reptiles and I can spoil them and give them back. And I said, that's totally fine. That might change. And she says, when I. When I start my period, she goes, I'm getting on birth control. I said, okay, well, there's other things we can do too, you know, like, you know, so she. And it's funny. It's like, kids are smart. And I think, you know, our show has even taught me, in a sense.

[Ty]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Macy]

Watching other people's stories and knowing that we have to talk to our children about all these things at a young age.

[Kate]

Have you seen a shift, like, as far as, like, because you. Obviously, you grew up. You watched. How old are you?

[Natalie]

29.

[Kate]

Okay, so you're a little younger, but, like, you. Did you see a shift in culture or, like, in. In school and stuff? Did kids talk about it, like, after the show? After the show, like, when the show aired?

[Ty]

Like, when you were watching the show.

[Natalie]

I think we were still in that time where you don't talk about it. Like, I had.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Natalie]

My first sex talk was at church.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[Natalie]

Weird. And it was. Who with? Like, the female youth.

[Kate]

Okay. Female youth pastors.

[Natalie]

It was all females.

[Ty]

Was it a conversation of, like, scare them out of sex?

[Natalie]

No, it was more or less like, this is what married people do. This is only what you should do with Mary, you know, just very cookie cutter. Not. It's a penis and a vagina and an egg and a sperm. It's nothing like that.

[Macy]

Yeah, very.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Put in a beautiful package.

[Ty]

And did you absorb a bow of.

[Natalie]

I mean, not really. They didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know.

[Kate]

Right.

[Natalie]

You know, I knew what it was.

[Ty]

You probably knew a little more and was like, this is not real. This is.

[Natalie]

That's not exactly what it is, but in kids.

[Ty]

Hate to break it to y'all, but did y'all know that?

[Kate]

Yeah. By the way, you don't have to.

[Ty]

Maybe I should educate you. Right.

[Macy]

I already knew this, and I kind of know more than that.

[Ty]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate]

So. Okay, so that's. Did you go to a public school, or was it, like, a Christian? Okay, okay. Okay. That's what I was wondering. Like, did the. I didn't know if you.

[Natalie]

Like, we did have health class. And that was educational.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

But I still feel like it could have been more, you know.

[Kate]

Yeah, but you don't ever remember, like, kids talking about 16 and pregnant or teen mom or.

[Natalie]

I feel like that was the age where y'all were just. It was like y'all were just starting out, and I was just getting into high school, and so.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Natalie]

It was, like, not the wanted end result.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

No, it's because I remember when we first started, like, we had to go defend the show to Matt Lauer on today's show. It was like, no one told us about it, and it was like, you're gonna talk to Matt Lauer. This new show. I'm like, all right. Or about whatever's going on. And I literally got grilled by Matt Lauer about why we're glamorizing.

[Macy]

Yeah. Do you think you're glamorizing, T Pray? And we're literally 17 years old.

[Kate]

And I'm like, no, I don't, sir.

[Macy]

And I don't.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Like, you know, it was just.

[Macy]

If you think having to place a child for adoption because you have no support is glamorizing.

[Ty]

If you think not being able to.

[Macy]

Having his dad around, can't pay bills, can't go to work. Right. Like, this is not glamorizing. And it's. We're trying to show that it's not fun.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

It's like, that was crazy.

[Kate]

It was. We were like, what? And I didn't. Don't you think it took a minute for culture and society to kind of get the real message?

[Ty]

Yeah, it's taboo.

[Macy]

It's shocking. Like you said, nobody wants to talk about it. Well, we need to talk about it if we want to stop the problems.

[Ty]

You have to know and recognize and accept that there's a problem before anything's going to change.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

Oh, man. I don't.

[Kate]

It took a minute.

[Ty]

I remember wanting. I. I would get so hot in those interviews.

[Kate]

Well, especially when you're not prepared for it. They're, like, going today's show and talk about Team Mom.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

No. This guy's reading cue card, grilling us about why we're gonna destroy America's youth. Because now they're all gonna want to get pregnant to be on TV and stuff.

[Ty]

I'm like, if anybody has watched 16 and Pregnant, like, trust me, if I had not gotten myself into this mess, I would not watch this show and be like, yeah, that looks fun.

[Macy]

Right?

[Ty]

Right?

[Macy]

Not at all.

[Ty]

I totally. That's exactly what I want my life to be.

[Kate]

And plus, I think one thing that are you that are, like, cast the original people is unique. Is that we didn't know anything about what it was gonna be like.

[Ty]

No.

[Kate]

For Teen Mom 2 and 16 NPCs and whatever they already saw there was kind of potential. Oh, this is where it could lead into. We were the guinea pigs. We had no idea, like, where. So to say that we're glam, like, glamorizing what? Our podcast. Couple thousand. I'm still in the trailer, bro. I'm still the couple thousand dollars.

[Macy]

And I split it with you. And then my mom took a thousand from me.

[Kate]

You know, you're not just a thousand.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And I've never seen that.

[Kate]

Ever get evicted or something. She need.

[Macy]

I don't know what it was for. All I remember is she took a thousand dollars from me, and I gave you 25. 500. And so I was stuck with, like, thousand dollars.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And shared the biggest trauma of my life on television.

[Kate]

You forgot about your mom taking the.

[Macy]

The.

[Ty]

Yeah, dude paid for a semester of.

[Kate]

School, and that's when they were smoking crack.

[Ty]

Oh, yeah.

[Macy]

And who knows? God. See? Damn.

[Kate]

Wow. All right. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. So. Wow. I'm like.

[Macy]

I remember going around telling people, like, oh, yeah. They'd be like, oh, what show are you filming? I'm like, we're gonna be on True Life.

[Kate]

Like, true Life. I'm knocked up as a teen or something.

[Macy]

Yeah. Like, I think it's gonna be a true Life. Like, I feel like even the producers and stuff didn't know.

[Ty]

Yeah. Because it really was. It was like, a true Life. Like, series. Like, there was not.

[Kate]

Which.

[Macy]

I love that about it.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Macy]

I like the docu series part of it.

[Ty]

Oh, my God. Do you remember, like, one of the craziest things I think about was when after Bentley was born, there would be a camera op that would literally sleep on the couch in the apartment to film the night when the baby would wait. Like, when Bentley would wake up.

[Macy]

We never had that.

[Ty]

And I was like, I look back now, and I'm like, that is so insane. But also, like, that's why that dog used. It was so good.

[Kate]

It was. I actually remember this song on the bed and saying, ryan, you're doing this. I'm on the.

[Ty]

I have to do homework.

[Kate]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

And his face looked completely, like, crazy.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate]

What do you want me to do about it? You were like, dude, do what? Do something.

[Macy]

Take care of your kids.

[Ty]

Anything. Anything's better than nothing at this point.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Seriously. Oh, man.

[Kate]

How's that. How's that going though, as far as just like, you know, Bentley and Ryan and I mean, everything.

[Ty]

Everything. Yeah. Normal and on the up and up. Yeah, I've. It's been pretty good.

[Macy]

I said we weren't going to talk to her about Ryan.

[Ty]

Oh. I guess like, I meant like, well, Bentley. Yeah. It's a whole. It's kind of odd how normal. Normal is. Is now like what the normal is and how much healthier it is. But he's been sober for over a year and a half.

[Kate]

Good friend.

[Ty]

Two years in April.

[Macy]

That's awesome.

[Kate]

I was more interested in knowing is you as a mom. I don't think people get to hear their perspective of being a mom who has to navigate protecting my kid while also trying to be as much of a bridge as possible.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

To the other parent. Like, I mean, my mom, I feel like, had a similar situation my dad that you had, which is like, how do I. And she asked me when my dad was in prison, she was like, do you want to go see him? And there's an age where I was like, I don't want to go see him through the glass. It's weird. And so. And I remember her saying, are you sure? I don't want you to regret it, you know, because my sister would go and I wouldn't go. And so like, I thought about. I'm like, dang. The perspective of being a mom, having to protect your kids while also trying to nurture and build a bridge to something that could potentially that you're not in control of, harm them. It's like, how does that. How do you do it?

[Ty]

You know, for a very long time, I had no idea how to do it. It's much more of a. Follow your gut.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

What feels right usually is, at least for the time being after doing a lot of therapy and like Alanon and all kinds of things like that over the last, like, honestly, what, four or five years now, learning what you. What I can control and what I can't, what my responsibilities are, what. What are not my responsibilities. But I think for me, the biggest change and shift for me was learning that it is also not my responsibility to right Ryan's wrongs.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

I cannot do that. I could try over and over and over again. It's. I cannot do anything about that.

[Macy]

And that makes sense because I could see as like a. As a mom or a, you know, a parent. You want to fix it.

[Ty]

You want.

[Macy]

Right. Or you like maybe start to over compensate with this child because, you know, the Lack of things that he's missing out on for somebody else, you know, that would be hard.

[Ty]

It's a whole matter of just really shifting focus from the addict or even your child and focusing on you, working on you, learning what your boundaries are, what. What trauma the experiences had brought you, how maybe your feelings toward the other parent affect how you parent, but also how you might. You might get in the way or. Or detach, which also isn't good for the kid. But it's way more about looking internally because that. I can only control me, right? I can only uphold my responsibilities. And I can also just show. Be an example of, like, working on yourself, doing the work to. To try to get healthier mentally and emotionally and talking about it. And this is something that I, like before, I did a lot of work and therapy and stuff on myself, trying to make sense of his addiction and, like, trying to. Trying to figure it out. You know, if I figure it out, then maybe I can fix it or then maybe I can do this. But I think it was a matter of, like, when we got pregnant with Bentley and we moved into an apartment, and then Bentley was born. Neither one of us knew what we were doing at all, obviously, kids having a kid. And I think for me, it was like, I don't know what I'm doing. But also my motherly instinct kicked in, and I was very much still like, well, I don't have time to sit here and, like, focus on what I don't know. Like, I just gotta do it and I gotta do it. And it was like, just do it. And on the surface, I looked like I knew what I was doing, and I looked like I was okay, and I looked like I wasn't panicking all the fucking time, you know? Whereas with him, it's like he doesn't know what he's doing either, right? And I look like I know what I'm doing, and I don't have time to slow down and help him. Like, we didn't talk about things like that. And I think for him is like, holy shit. Every. They seem fine. I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm panicking. Why is she not panicking? What. How does she know what to do? And I don't know what to do?

[Kate]

Something wrong, right?

[Ty]

Or like that you're just failing.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And it's like, we were so young, we didn't know to talk about those things with each other. We didn't. Our. Our relationship was full of love, but it was nowhere. It was not a Mature. Because we weren't mature. We weren't emotionally mature. We weren't even from a relationship standpoint. Again, we were kids. And it's like, I'm trying to keep my head above water. And he's like, wait, but she's doing it. And she's not saying that she's freaking out, but I'm still freaking out. And I still don't know. Like, it was just a whole, like.

[Kate]

So do you think vulnerability might have been missing, like, just being honest with each other? But this is hard. I don't. I'm freaking out inside. Y'all know what I'm doing.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

Like, because then you guys could have maybe connected on that.

[Ty]

Yeah. And being so in survival mode, you naturally become selfish, especially when you're a kid.

[Kate]

Robot mode.

[Ty]

Yeah. And it's like, I wasn't thinking about how he was doing.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

You know, because I. I could hardly wipe my own ass. Like, I couldn't. You know, I can't help you because I don't even know how to help myself.

[Kate]

But I think you being curious about what he was experiencing is, like, your curiosity really is empathy. You're trying to, like, make a connect. Like, you know, which is, like I said, I commend you because a lot of people can get hardened and they can stay hardened.

[Ty]

You.

[Kate]

You got hardened, which is a part of the process. But then you eventually. Listen, I need to. Your curiosity took over.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Which I think is. That creates healing.

[Ty]

I mean, I agree. And I think, too, when you do get hardened and you are just angry all the time, if you allow yourself to do it, like, you finally realize, like, at that point, you're just poisoning yourself.

[Kate]

Oh, yeah.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate]

Wait for them to die.

[Ty]

Yeah. It's not. They're not poisoning. Like, I'm poisoning myself by.

[Macy]

And you say that stuff a lot. Like, you've. You've also said that to Nova. Like, with certain things, you know, if you take on, like, how. Whatever the saying, you always say it to her.

[Kate]

I have too many.

[Macy]

When people are bullying her or, like, doing hard things or. You're right at. In the end, it ends up just hurting yourself more. You're literally poisoning yourself. Like you said, like you said.

[Ty]

Waiting for them to die.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

When you're the one holding the bottle.

[Macy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ty]

You're the one that's, like, in control of what you're doing and how you're being affected, but you're so focused on what somebody else is doing instead of focusing on yourself and what you're doing. Like, how Are you helping yourself? You know, yeah. If you're just focused on fixing them or figuring them out, never going to be good. That's. Yeah, it's, it's. That's one thing about Al Anon that was like mind blowing to me is like it actually has nothing to do with the addict and everything to do with you.

[Kate]

And I've never actually been to Al Anon.

[Ty]

It's amazing.

[Kate]

But people have. I mean, Dr. Drew's been trying.

[Ty]

It is game changer.

[Macy]

But one thing I love about you and just watching your whole journey and just being a friend of yours is I told her last night, I said, I'm just, you're such a good mom in the sense of, you know, you let your kids, you're supportive of them and you help them, but you literally let Bentley grow and make his own opinion of his father. And I feel like Tyler's mom did the same thing with him. She never down talked him, she was honest with him if things were going on and he asked questions. But Tyler was able to grow up and make his own opinion of his father for what it is. And that takes hard work to do because as a parent, I'm sure you probably want to say, no, your dad's a fucking piece of shit, you know, or whatever it is. He's a drug addict. And you know, like you, because you are angry at times because you see your child in pain, but it takes self control.

[Ty]

The most important thing though is knowing that when you talk bad about your child's other parent, you're telling your child that half of them is bad, half of them is wrong, half of them is a piece of shit, half of them is worthless. They're made of both of you. And you're just literally telling your child that half of them is worthless.

[Kate]

Right.

[Macy]

I think a lot of people need to hear what you just said.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Because there's a lot of co parenting situations that don't go that way and little kids have to hear their other parent being talked about in negative ways.

[Ty]

Definitely. I think as a humankind we are all. Now given our podcast, we do find that some people are just bad, they're just not good. But majority, we all have goodness inside. We all have growth and trauma and love and want to do and be healthy and loving and caring. But for a kid, they're supposed to feel loved. And if they're not getting it from one of their parents and then the parent that does claim and show up to love them and support them is dogging him, it's like, as a kid, it's like, so you don't love me enough to not tell me that half of me is fucked up.

[Kate]

Right?

[Ty]

Like, it's not about. It's. They're a child. Like, I know it sucks. That's one of my biggest things. I'm like, hey, don't, don't.

[Macy]

Don't do that.

[Kate]

And also disrespecting the fact that they have a different love that's just as vital with that person then you do with them. So it's like, you have to understand and nurture that. So I'm saying it's hard to do, though.

[Ty]

And you're kind of also telling them that how they feel about that person is wrong.

[Kate]

You should feel mad like me. You should think these things.

[Macy]

Like I do when children, they just love because they love.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

You could learn a lot more from kids when it comes to loving.

[Macy]

You know, my kids teach me something new on the Daily. 100%.

[Ty]

100%? Yes.

[Macy]

But, Natalie, do you have any, like, did you have anyone in your family that was in addiction or have you ever experienced.

[Natalie]

We had family members. I've never been, like, face to face with it or lived with someone in active addiction. I think we all have traumas and they shape us in different ways. When I was growing up, before I was at school age, I had a babysitter, and it was just this couple that my aunt knew from church, and they had several kids that they would watch during the day. And I was raped by them, by the husband. And it was so odd because after I got out of that situation and it's like I forgot about it. Like, it was, like, too much for my little brain to handle that I blocked it out for so many years. Like, I just. It was like one day I was.

[Kate]

Like, oh, yeah, that happened to me.

[Natalie]

That happened to me.

[Kate]

Yep.

[Natalie]

And then you have to deal with it.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And that's where therapy comes in. And, you know, and then my. The person I lost my virginity to used to hit me. And I felt like that was a really pivotal time for me because I was able to connect that. Those acts are not okay. They're not loving. They're not healthy. They're not. You know, it's not what love looks like. It's not what love is. And it's okay to get out of it, but you gotta. You gotta treat yourself. You've gotta make sure that your mental health is okay.

[Macy]

I wanna say, first of all, I wanna say thanks for being vulnerable and sharing that, because you don't have to. And also, I hope you know that it takes a lot of strength and power to speak upon that, in that I'm sad that that happened to you. Did. Did you ever. You know, don't ever. You don't have to answer anything if it's too personal or you're uncomfortable, but did you ever speak about it to your family? Was there any thing done to this person?

[Natalie]

So I did not know that I was being hurt. You know, when you're three or four, you think an adult's telling you to do something, you're supposed to do it. And I didn't think anything of it at first. And I just randomly. I have a different memory of it. Me and my mom have talked about it. Like, I remember we were at, like, Chick Fil A, and I told her, and she was like, no, we were driving home, and you told me. So my memory is a little off on how. But I was like, this person is doing this to me. And she was like, like, what? And then we had a deeper conversation about it. And they did sit down with the husband and wife. We all went to a park, and I was there.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Natalie]

My parents were there, and the couple was there. We sat down at a park, and the woman goes, tell your mom and dad you're lying. Tell your mom and dad you should know about it. She would go and get her hair done once a week, and that's when it would happen. And I was like, no, this. This happened to me. Like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna let my parents think I'm lying.

[Macy]

Right.

[Natalie]

Because I'm not lying.

[Macy]

Right.

[Natalie]

But no, no. No repercussions forever.

[Kate]

So in front of your mom, she said, tell your mom you're lying.

[Ty]

Did I?

[Kate]

Whip, could you.

[Ty]

No.

[Kate]

I'm like. Is like handcuffed. Okay, so let me ask you a question. Do you think that the way that that was handled was the right way?

[Natalie]

No.

[Kate]

Okay. So if, like, because kids experiences all the time and they don't know how to.

[Macy]

I was gonna say how she said that the memories came up. The same thing happened to my mother.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Something happened to her when she was younger, and she started getting flashbacks when she was, like, 17 years old, that's exactly what happened. Wow.

[Kate]

When you got older, you were way older.

[Natalie]

I did not. I didn't think about it through elementary school. I don't remember thinking about it. Middle school, high school, when you're. When you start getting into, you know, hormones, it's all. It all came out.

[Ty]

Feelings yeah.

[Macy]

Wow.

[Natalie]

And it really helped because I took a psychology class in high school, and it was like. I can't remember what the, like, point of view was or the thesis was, but it was just like, tell your parents something that you may not have told them before or your experience. And then would. I'd let my mom read it, and she was like, oh, well, this is different. Or this is different. She remembered it differently.

[Macy]

Wow. Yeah.

[Kate]

So I want. I want to bring up the point, though, that you, being a victim, said, I wish my parents would have handled it differently.

[Natalie]

And it was a different time.

[Kate]

It was a different time. But I feel like people who are listening or possibly anyone, like, you know, it's like, what. Would you have wanted it to be handled? Do you think it was. You think would have been better if you weren't involved and that they would have been, like, legal stuff happened.

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate]

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Natalie]

I should have never seen him after that.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And I did see him after that.

[Kate]

Yeah. Which is like. I'm like, it's. That's.

[Natalie]

The promise was I was never to be left alone with him.

[Kate]

So. Okay, wait a minute. So how often were you.

[Natalie]

Once a week alone with him? No, after the. After I told my parents, I started going to the hair salon with her, but I still went back.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Kate]

So they just didn't.

[Natalie]

My parents didn't know how to handle it. They didn't know what to do.

[Macy]

But as a kid of that and as a survivor of that, does that make you feel like. Did that make you feel like they didn't believe you in a sense, because I told you this thing.

[Kate]

Yeah. Okay.

[Natalie]

A little.

[Macy]

Yeah. And then I'm still around this or.

[Kate]

Made you feel like you probably should just not talk about it because clearly I said something, and now. Yeah, I'm back in this.

[Natalie]

And I think that's probably why I forgot about it for so long. It was like, okay, it's here. This is what happened. There's nothing that we can do to change it. Let's just never talk about it again. And.

[Kate]

And have your parents ever, like, addressed it?

[Natalie]

Yeah, they feel really bad.

[Kate]

Okay. Right. Because they. Obviously now they know. They know better or whatever. Because I think one of the hard things, though, is that, like, when you're a kid and you're like. Because when I was sexually abused, I told my mom and she was off and slapped me, she was so mad thinking that I was lying, which I get from her perspective now as an adult, I'm like, okay, what's a horrible lie? And you can incriminate a lot of innocent people. And she just thought I was making up stories. But it's one of those things where it's like, if, you know, by you sharing your story about that. I share my story. If we can just. If this even gets out to one parent, like, this is how you handle it. The child should never, ever be around that person ever again. Never be forced to see them, unless, unfortunately, it's at a court date when they have to testify. And that's the only. That should be the last time.

[Macy]

Well, yeah, and time, I've always said too, like, when it comes to any situation like that I will believe in my child until proven otherwise. I will fight tooth and nail because some parents end up, like, pushing aside or like, oh, maybe they're making up stories or whatever. And you can't do that.

[Kate]

I think. I think also though, a lot of parents do the wrong. They. They kind of absorb it the wrong ways. And like, oh, no, it's reflection of my parenting. I'm bad. I don't want anyone to know that I put my kid in a bad situation. So shouldn't.

[Natalie]

That could have been, you know, very much it. They didn't know what to do, so they wanted it to go away.

[Kate]

And also from their community, I'm pretty sure they didn't want people to. You know what I mean? Because I think it's like, I put.

[Natalie]

My kid in that situation.

[Kate]

Yeah. Right. And so I think parents just swallow your pride. Believe your child until proven you know, otherwise. And yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, though. That's hard. I mean, that's.

[Natalie]

Yeah, it's all about helping other people.

[Macy]

Yeah, thanks for sharing that, but.

[Kate]

So you've never dealt with any addiction, though. That's. It's okay. Interesting.

[Macy]

But you're right. Trauma is trauma and you have to.

[Natalie]

Deal with it or it's going to come back to you in the ass at some point in your life. And you gotta deal with it. You gotta go to therapy.

[Macy]

It really does. Yeah. Mine slapped me in the face at 21 years old and hit me like a ton of bricks.

[Ty]

I really firmly believe too, that until you've really gotten to know your trauma and gotten to know every way of yourself, you truly cannot love yourself.

[Kate]

It's true.

[Ty]

You know, until you've really gotten to know the good, the bad, the ugly, the. The child in you, like, until you've really just sat with your own shit long enough to get comfortable, you really cannot truly love yourself and care for yourself if you don't get to know who you are. And I actually have this.

[Natalie]

It's a picture that one of those two people that babysat me when I was younger. I have a picture of myself that they took that I look at. It's on my fridge. And anytime I'm like, God, Natalie, you've done this, you've done that. You're feeling bad about myself. I'm like, I'm talking to that little girl.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

Yes.

[Ty]

Yes. That is who you're talking to. Yeah.

[Kate]

Who in a way, as an adult, you can look back and say, deserve better. Yeah. Deserve better. And it's okay to say that. I'm not shaming your parents. It's just being honest.

[Natalie]

They didn't know. They didn't know.

[Kate]

Right?

[Natalie]

They didn't have the resources that we have now.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah. Because I feel like with. I feel like with therapy, and it's like, you don't have to be this hugely traumatized person to benefit from therapy. I think therapy comes along as, like, I. There's curiosity leads to understanding, A deeper understanding leads to healing. It's like, I don't. I don't know. I can better process it if I know why I act this way. So it's like, okay, you have to be. Just stay curious about your healing.

[Ty]

One of the therapists I work with for a very long time had a great metaphor for therapy. And like you said, you don't have to necessarily have a lot of trauma that. That is really deep and sad and scary and ugly for therapy to be beneficial. You think of it as, like, all right, you have a toolbox, and when you go to therapy, you're going to get a new tool to help you navigate life easier, better, healthier because of the tools you have in your toolbox that you get from therapy. And that's whether it's trauma, whether it's something in the future. Like, therapy is just filling that toolbox.

[Kate]

The more things. The more tool. Yeah. The more tools you have, the more things you can fix.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Kate]

So, you know, my toolbox saves me.

[Macy]

All the time, learn coping strategies and stuff.

[Kate]

But I think. But I think, you know, it's almost like looking at yourself like you're like. Like an. Like an outside experiment. Let me. I'm so curious on why my brain does this. Why. Why don't. Why does that trigger me? Yeah.

[Ty]

Why do I react?

[Kate]

Why do I react this way? Where's the power being held here? Like, my. If it wasn't for me being curious, I would never would have started therapy.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

But I Just knew I was like, tyler, why do you do this? Like, what's wrong with you?

[Macy]

You know, figure me out.

[Kate]

Yeah. Figure myself out. Help me, you know. Yeah.

[Macy]

Figuring out myself. My mind. Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah. It's a. But it's. It's a conscious decision you have to.

[Ty]

Make definitely as an adult.

[Kate]

And I also feel like the adults, a lot of adults need to just take more accountability for not being curious enough. Why are you not curious enough? Aren't you. Don't you want to know more about who you are so that way you can raise little kids and help them know better who they are? And it's like it has a ripple effect. I mean, you know, so it does. Yeah.

[Macy]

Therapy.

[Kate]

Therapy. Therapy.

[Ty]

Yes, therapy. Your mental health matters.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

100% you matter. Therapy has helped me, you know, put some generational traumas. Stopped it in its tracks, you know, so.

[Kate]

And there's still some people who don't believe in generational trauma, which is mind.

[Macy]

Blowing to me because I can literally name things off the top of my head that has been carried down from generation to generation in my family.

[Kate]

It's insane. Like, and like I said, it can be. It doesn't always come in a. Like. Like really all clear. There's something wrong here.

[Ty]

Yeah. Or the exact same.

[Kate]

Yeah. Because honestly, it's like, I know a lot of people who grew up, like I said, a beautiful family, great house, awesome parents, and there's shit that happened, you know, and it's like. Yeah. I just feel like you can't ever. You have nothing to lose from going therapy. You have nothing to lose. You have only everything to gain. So, yeah, learn about your damn self.

[Macy]

I did too. So I wanted to know, like, where can people find your guys's podcast, YouTube.

[Natalie]

Listen, Instagram, any, wherever you download podcast.

[Macy]

Oh, okay, good. Yeah. Everywhere.

[Natalie]

Apple.

[Macy]

I just. I appreciate you guys hopping on here. I feel like, you know, we started off really fluffy and then gets really deep. You know what I mean? That's how conversations.

[Ty]

I kind of feel like this is kind of therapeutic, though. Yeah, it's been. It's been really good.

[Natalie]

Telling your story is therapeutic.

[Ty]

Definitely.

[Macy]

It is. But I just want to say thank you because, I mean, you don't really know us and that's, you know, I've.

[Natalie]

Tried to be as open as possible because I know someone somewhere is relating to me right now.

[Macy]

100.

[Kate]

That's why. Perfect partner.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

See, it works. It works great because you got to have that. You got to have this.

[Ty]

The purpose.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And like I said. Said if you guys ever want to come on again or you want us to come on, let me know. Or you want to squash something, you know, just me up, you know, we'll figure something out.

[Kate]

I'll be sending some Michigan Unsolved Mysteries. Oh, no. Yeah.

[Macy]

When I find that out, I'm totally. I want.

[Kate]

Yeah, let us. Let us be a guest. Let us, like, come on and let's, like. I want to get into some y.

[Ty]

I'm going to be like, hey, can you find this address and please time this drive. Okay.

[Macy]

All right.

[Natalie]

Got it.

[Macy]

Got it.

[Ty]

How many stops are there got?

[Kate]

We make sure to film them for behind the scenes. Water area.

[Macy]

We'll be good. We're in that little area, but not.

[Kate]

To his old hat and a car.

[Macy]

Seriously. Perfect.

[Ty]

Definitely. No, it's been fun. Thanks for having.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Thank you for having us.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Well, no, it's been awesome.

[Ty]

Thank you for coming. Love you guys.

[Macy]

I love you, too.

[Kate]

Break it down. We're breaking down.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Damn. Do we, huh?