Challenging the "Grateful" Adoptee Narrative with Dez, The Outspoken Adoptee

Summary

Summary of "Challenging the 'Grateful' Adoptee Narrative with Dez, The Outspoken Adoptee"

Episode Released on May 28, 2025 | Podcast: Cate & Ty Break It Down | Host: Catelynn and Tyler Baltierra

In this powerful and emotionally charged episode of "Cate & Ty Break It Down", hosts Catelynn and Tyler Baltierra engage in a candid conversation with Desiree Farrow (Des), an outspoken adoptee active on TikTok and Instagram. Together, they delve deep into the complexities and challenges faced by adoptees, challenging the prevailing narrative that adoption is inherently a positive and grateful experience. The discussion sheds light on systemic issues within the adoption industry, racial trauma, and the personal journey of healing from abuse.

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1. Introduction and Guest Background

Desiree welcomes Des to the show, expressing admiration for her "outspoken" nature and "candidness" in discussing adoption-related issues.

Desiree [01:46]: "We love your vibes."

Des [01:48]: "Thank you. Truth needs to be told bluntly, not palatably."

---

2. Des's Adoption Story

Des shares her adoption journey, highlighting the early age at which she was adopted and the circumstances surrounding her adoption.

Des [03:01]: "I was adopted at 7 days old."

Her birth parents were a mixed-race couple; her birth mother was white, and her birth father was Black. The adoption was influenced by racist ideologies prevalent in the Mormon community, which stigmatized Black children.

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3. Challenges with Racial Identity

Des discusses the racial challenges she faced growing up, including microaggressions and systemic racism in her adoptive environment.

Des [10:26]: "The first time I ever got asked what I was was at five. A kid asked, 'What are you?' It wasn’t about my gender; it was about my race."

She reflects on feeling isolated and the lack of understanding from peers and teachers regarding her racial identity.

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4. Abuse in Adoptive Family

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the abuse Des endured within her adoptive family, detailing both emotional and physical abuse from multiple family members.

Des [14:02]: "In my home, there were four men, and out of those, only one is not a pedophile."

Des recounts her trauma-bonded relationship with her adoptive father, who was both an abuser and a figure she felt powerless to leave.

Des [17:01]: "My adopted father was my abuser from age 5 to 17."

She also touches on the criminal actions of her older brother, who was convicted of rape, and the subsequent estrangement from her biological family.

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5. Systemic Issues in Adoption

Des critiques the adoption industry, particularly focusing on the practices in Utah, where she was raised. She highlights the coercive tactics used to facilitate adoptions, often involving financial incentives and manipulation.

Des [26:06]: "Fathers do not have rights in Utah. There's no revocation once the paperwork is done."

She calls for the federalization of adoption systems to ensure uniform standards and to eliminate the commodification of children.

Des [57:00]: "Adoption is a $25 billion a year industry. These children should not come with a cost."

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6. Reunions with Birth Parents

The discussion moves to the complexity of reunions between adoptees and their birth parents. Des shares her personal experience of meeting her birth mother, describing it as awkward and unfulfilling.

Des [31:00]: "Our first visit... it was the most awkward, uncomfortable experience."

She emphasizes the lack of readiness and support for adoptees during such reunions, advocating for more structured and sensitive approaches.

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7. Mental Health and Healing

Des opens up about the long-term mental health impacts of her adoption and abuse, including self-harm tendencies and body dysmorphia. She speaks about her journey through therapy, addressing racial trauma and seeking validation from the community.

Des [54:52]: "Until I took a psychological evaluation, I didn't realize how racially traumatized I was."

Her healing process is portrayed as ongoing and multifaceted, highlighting the need for comprehensive mental health support for adoptees.

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8. Recommendations for System Change

Des and the hosts discuss necessary reforms in the adoption system to better support both birth parents and adoptees. Key recommendations include:

• Federalization of Adoption Laws: To ensure consistency and protect children's rights across all states.

• Elimination of Financial Incentives: Shifting from a commodified approach to fostering ethical practices.

• Immediate Access to Birth Records: Allowing adoptees to obtain their original birth certificates and medical histories without barriers.

• Support Programs for Birth Parents: Providing family planning and educational resources to prevent coercion and ensure informed consent.

Des [57:00]: "Adoption is a $25 billion a year industry... These children should not come with a cost."

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9. Conclusion

The episode concludes with a call to action for society to acknowledge the trauma experienced by adoptees and to challenge the sanitized narratives often portrayed in media and public discourse. Des emphasizes the importance of community support and open conversations to foster healing and understanding.

Des [81:12]: "This is all one step of change... Thank you so much."

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Key Takeaways

• Adoption is not universally positive: While some adoptees may have fulfilling experiences, many face profound trauma and systemic challenges.

• Racial identity plays a significant role in the adoption experience, especially in transracial adoptions where adoptees may face additional layers of discrimination and isolation.

• Abuse within adoptive families can severely impact the mental and emotional well-being of adoptees, necessitating robust support systems.

• Systemic reforms are essential to protect the rights of children, ensure ethical adoption practices, and provide adequate support for both birth parents and adoptees.

• Open dialogue and community support are crucial for adoptees to feel seen, validated, and empowered to share their stories.

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Notable Quotes

• Des [01:43]: "A couple times over on Instagram."

• Des [02:03]: "I was adopted at 7 days old."

• Des [10:26]: "The first time I ever got asked what I was was at five. A kid asked, 'What are you?' It wasn’t about my gender; it was about my race."

• Des [14:02]: "In my home, there were four men, and out of those, only one is not a pedophile."

• Des [57:00]: "Adoption is a $25 billion a year industry. These children should not come with a cost."

• Des [81:12]: "This is all one step of change... Thank you so much."

---

This episode serves as a crucial reminder of the hidden struggles faced by many adoptees and the urgent need for systemic change to ensure that adoption serves the best interests of the children involved, free from abuse and coercion.

Transcript

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[Desiree]

Hey guys. So welcome back again to K and Ty. Break it down again. Thank you for all of the love and the support that we've been receiving today. We are here with a very dear friend. I want to know, do you prefer by going by Des or Desiree?

[Trey Farrow]

Des is perfect.

[Desiree]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

She is the outspoken adoptee on Tick Tock and Instagram.

[Trey Farrow]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

A couple times over on Instagram.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Desiree]

And we love your vibes. Love your vibes.

[Trey Farrow]

Thank you. Truth. Truth needs to be told bluntly, not palatably.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you do that unapologetically. And we love it.

[Trey Farrow]

I've gotten there. Absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker]

How was that late for you though? Like, did you take time to get there or.

[Trey Farrow]

It does. So I think being adopted, you society tells you how to feel. Society tells you how to think, how to feel about your adoption. You are grateful, lucky, blessed. You have to be one of those three. So when you walk in somewhere and somebody finds out you're adopted, their immediate reaction is, oh, you're so blessed. I bet you're so lucky. Grateful. All those. So you're constantly being told by society this is what you should be feeling and when it doesn't match what you feel inside, you just kind of shut down. I also grew up in the era of children are seen, not heard. And that really was damaging because then when things are happening, I'm not telling anyone about them because why? You know, children are seen, they're not heard. So. And you kind of also just know from experience and other things. Nobody, nobody really cares. They know that things are not okay, but nobody says anything.

[Unknown Speaker]

You were raised in Utah.

[Trey Farrow]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Desiree]

So can you tell us.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Desiree]

Can you tell us a little bit about what your adoption story, Whatever you're comfortable with sharing.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. So I was adopted at 7 days old.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

The quick birth side of that is my birth parents were both together. They were living together, had a working relationship, and then out of nowhere she up and left while he was at work. And he never saw her or me again. And so he was actively excited to have a baby. He thought this is my future and whatnot. So to come home. I'm sure he was highly disappointed. My non identifying information tried to paint it as he was one night stand. He wanted nothing to do with her or me. And that she had some mental capacity that kept her from being a parent, which I later found out was semi true and semi not true. She does have a. She is a little challenged, but not to the point where she can't live, work, that type of stuff. Okay. She does have. I have a half sister that was kept and parented by her and the grandmother that kind of orchestrated the fact that they couldn't have a black child in their family. Mormon. Yeah. The Mormon doctrine is they believe that, you know, black children or black people are cursed with the skin of blackness.

[Desiree]

Oh my God.

[Trey Farrow]

Mormonism is their right path to white and delightsomeness. They believe that we will resurrect white in heaven if we believe.

[Unknown Speaker]

I never heard the doctor like I'm.

[Trey Farrow]

It's wild what they believe. Luckily I was adopted by. I say luckily, but two ex LDS parents.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

So they were really the ones that kind of helped me against it, but then also brought me sadly closer to.

[Desiree]

It just to hold. So your birth mom.

[Trey Farrow]

Yes.

[Desiree]

Was she white or black? Yes. Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

So she was white, white, white mommy, black daddy.

[Desiree]

Okay. And the grandma was like, absolutely not.

[Trey Farrow]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[Desiree]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

Yes, yes, yes. When she. She ended up getting pregnant six months later. So my half sister is what, 15 months younger than me. Wow. And she was kept in parenthood. Is that painful when I found that out? Absolutely. Because when you look at it from my point of view of seeing this non identifying information and it saying, oh, she was challenged. She had issues, she couldn't parent, blah, blah, blah. The father was nowhere near around. I'm looking at it. And I actually felt for my birth mother. I was like, oh, wow. You know, my heart opened up for her. And then I met her. Oh. And I. It was no questions. You couldn't ask questions. And if I asked questions, I was being abrasive. I was, how dare I ask these questions? How dare I ask if I.

[Unknown Speaker]

How old are you? When you say so.

[Trey Farrow]

This was 4ish years ago.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, wow. Kind of recent. I mean, this is kind of recent.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, absolutely. I've. I've gone through a lot in the last couple years, but finding. So I found her. I found a half sister. That was. That was shocking. We found out we went to one year of junior high and one year of high school together. Together. And I had a school. Yep. She knew about me. I didn't know about her. To what degree. I don't know. She's very closed to talking about it. When we first met, she did tell me a lot about the grandmother, her behavior, the racism and stuff. But then in the end, wanted me to see this grandmother as this beautiful human. That's how she saw her. Well, that was a completely different experience. You know, you weren't shunned out of the family.

[Unknown Speaker]

So you were raised in the same town.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, like essentially. Yes. And the fallout of our relationship was because I did notice some racist tensions and behaviors with her. And then the non questioning. She also kept me from meeting my uncle, which I thought was really weird. And now he's. He's passed on. I. I'll never get to meet him. But I. He was so excited to meet me and that really. And I don't understand why she wanted to lie or keep it, you know, keep it all a secret. So we just kind of. We slowly just fell out. I tried to have her come to where we both grew up. And I was like, let's you come here. I've already gone to you and you're home. You come here now, back home, and we'll show each other our stomping grounds. I thought that this was a great bonding for us. And she was. I don't leave anywhere without my husband. I don't do this, I don't do that. I don't leave my kids. I'm like, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is she involved in the Elodie? Is that.

[Trey Farrow]

Most of my bio family, other than on my maternal side has kind of. At least the mother, the sister have kind of denounced it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay, okay.

[Trey Farrow]

The grandmother was still Full fledged, the aunt, that type of stuff. I did meet the aunt and a cousin. They kind of only seemed like they wanted to meet me just to clear their conscience that I was alive.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay, well, whatever.

[Trey Farrow]

And then the story to my adoption was my adopted mother, they had already had three biological sons. So when she was pregnant and gave birth to the third one in the hospital room, allegedly, she told my adoptive father, I want a girl, get me a girl.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

And so five years and nine months to the date of them putting in the paperwork and everything. Or no, five years, but then nine months of the paperwork, they got the call. She did put in a request for a peanut butter skin baby with black curly hair. And if you can't tell, okay, she quite got what her money paid for.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wait, what do you mean she. So what, she, she could write the.

[Trey Farrow]

Adoption agency that she wanted a peanut butter skin baby with black curly hair?

[Unknown Speaker]

That is.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. And are they. Sounds like they are white. Yeah. My brothers are towheads.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm just like that. That sounds weird to anyone listening.

[Trey Farrow]

It's because it really does. It, it does. Because it doesn't. Weird because there are people that will listen to that and go, oh, she wanted you so much.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

She handpicked you.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I don't.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, I don't.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't. Yeah. No.

[Trey Farrow]

Custom ordered a baby. Like a purse. You were on, you were on Gucci designing your bag. Like what were you doing? And so I, I went into this home. They moved to Layton, a very secluded area where I grew up in. The schools I grew up in have a lot of issues with racism. A lot of issues. One of my friends, 10 year old daughter ended up committing suicide because she was being bullied so bad. And the district wouldn't do anything. So there is a lot that comes out of Utah that people just aren't realizing. There is a lot of COVID type of racism, really nice people to your face. You turn around and they're behind your back.

[Unknown Speaker]

They're right.

[Trey Farrow]

Not the people. And so it was, it was hard growing up there, you know, having all Mormon kids. They wouldn't play with me. I wasn't invited to a lot of things and I didn't realize why.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. You're a kid.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. You know, the first time I ever got asked what I was was in fifth. I was five. Not fifth grade. Five. I was five.

[Unknown Speaker]

What does that mean?

[Trey Farrow]

So thank you. So I had a kid come up to me and he says, what are you? And I, I looked at him and.

[Unknown Speaker]

I was like, I'm a Person.

[Trey Farrow]

A girl.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

You can't see. You know, you can't see that I'm a girl. And he. He said it again. What are you? And that's when it clicked. It had nothing to do with my gender. It was, what are you?

[Unknown Speaker]

What.

[Trey Farrow]

Why are you brown? And, you know, not having a family to go home to, say, XYZ kids are XYZ at school and. And everything, and having parents that understand that and can relate to that was definitely challenging. It was. Well, what did you do to make them say that to you? You must have done something. I was always the problem. Which also shut me down a lot as a child. You know, I know that teachers saw things that they probably didn't agree with. Behaviors and patterns. And as mandated reporters, they stayed silent. I had a teacher that lived up the street from me. I remember one Mother's Day, she brought flowers for the entire class to give to their mothers. I was the only kid that had to somehow come to her home and pick up my flower.

[Desiree]

What?

[Trey Farrow]

And just. Just weird things like that. But you don't realize it when you're little. You just, oh, okay, well, I live down the street from you, so that's probably why. But when you have a fresh.

[Unknown Speaker]

When did you, like, know, though, that you were different from, like, your biological brothers or, like, when did you, like.

[Desiree]

I was gonna say, it sounds like.

[Trey Farrow]

Off rip, like, very early. I mean, my youngest, the. The brother that is five years older than me, he is blonde hair, like, blue or green eyes. Very. I mean, we are night and day. You know, obviously, children are out in the sun all the time. So I have my winter coat and my. Right, my summer coat. But it. Yeah, no, I knew. I knew adoption was always. I always knew I was okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. I always knew I was adopted. My name. So my first name was Rebecca. She. I was only allowed to go by Rebecca or Becca. If my friends called and said, hey, is Becky there?

[Desiree]

Called.

[Trey Farrow]

Click. She'd hang up on them. Or she'd say, we have a Rebecca and a Becca here. Click. So she was very tied to that name somehow. My middle name, Desiree, I am named. If you look at the spelling, the D E, Z, A capital R, A Y is because my adopted father's name is Ray. So to the day that this woman died, he provided her, bought her anything and everything she ever wanted, including a human. And even in her obituary, it said, if she wanted something, she got it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

So, I mean, they all knew. They all knew. You know, even my family, watching the abuse and how she treated me completely different than everyone. I'm, I'm, I look at it now and I'm just like, y' all sat back and you said nothing. Like, my brothers are 13 and 14 years and five years older than me. How did y' all. Except for maybe the, the one five years older at some point, he's still a bit a baby too. But the older ones, like you weren't really my brothers. You were more of sitters. By the time I was old enough to really go and hang out with them, they were more like babysitters to me than brothers.

[Desiree]

And when you talk about abuse, it. Was it emotional, physical, or like all the above?

[Trey Farrow]

So in my home, my home contained the, the four men. And out of those four men, only one of them is not a pedophile.

[Unknown Speaker]

Whoa.

[Trey Farrow]

So my adopted father was my abuser from age 5 to 17. Wow. My next brother, I, my oldest brother, I've never accused him of anything only because those I have blocked out a ton, of course, a ton. But I still don't have a comfort level with him. There is something. He was accused, he was convicted of rape of his three year old daughter. So I had to deal with that as a. Probably in junior high. I was dealing with watching my, my brother get taken away and dealing with my, my niece, my nephew, like losing all my nieces and nephews and not fully understanding. But I knew why. Like, I didn't fully get it, but I, I also knew because I had witnessed some of the harm he was committing on her and knew just. You don't tell, you know, I kept it, I kept it a secret. And then shortly after that, he was, he was caught. But then my middle brother is the only one that I even semi had a relationship with until I started to divulge a lot of the trauma and brought him into therapy and everything. And he walked away picking his father and his brothers.

[Desiree]

Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

So when they say blood thicker than water, that. So then the younger brother was my abuser from age 8 till he left to go to the military at 18ish. And then he broke his leg in three places and got to come home. He did try to pick up where he left off. And I was like, no, no.

[Unknown Speaker]

What age was this?

[Trey Farrow]

I want to say probably about 15, 16.

[Unknown Speaker]

When he came back after the broken back.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, somewhere around there. And it just, you know, he would try to pick up. He would stalk me in my window. I could see him in my window or the bathroom window or if I die. Video games scared me at a point because he would use them as a tactic against me. If you die on this game, this level, if you die, then you have to do X, Y, Z and you know, just putting fear, fear in me in any, any way, shape or form. He was also very physically abusive as a kid. He would keep me, we used to have this frog toy box and he would put me in it and then sit on it just hours and watch tv. So he was very physically, emotionally, I would say, you know, that's an emotional abuse as well. My mom was very verbally, physically, emotionally abusive. My dad, I trauma bonded to my dad. I 100% trauma bonded to that man.

[Desiree]

Also your abuser too.

[Trey Farrow]

Exactly, exactly. But he did it in a malicious way of being nice to me. He was nicer when she was mean. So when she was mean, he would come swoop in and be like, well I'm, I'm daddy, save a lot of, you know. And I didn't realize that at all. So when I turned 17, I started going by my middle name to try and distance myself. You'll, I'm sure you've heard from a lot of adoptees, we do things to distance ourselves. We move, we, you know, our way. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Deconstruct from the religion you're raised. Yeah, I've heard a lot of.

[Desiree]

And with all this abuse that was going on, like even just some men, let alone in your life, your mother, your adoptive mother, never noticed she did she?

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. So she knew her? That's a good question.

[Desiree]

She knew her husband was in, her.

[Trey Farrow]

Sons totally new and she has been nothing but their ride or die support.

[Unknown Speaker]

Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

It was me. So back in the 80s, nightgowns, we all wore nightgowns. I would be blamed for not wearing pants or shorts under my nightgown. I'm like, woman, you're the one buying them stop buying nightgowns then. I mean it's not going to stop, but stop buying nightgowns. When I was five, she put me in the basement with all three of my brothers and just left me. We had a three story home and she would, she put me at five in the basement with all three of my brothers.

[Unknown Speaker]

The basement, what was the bedroom?

[Trey Farrow]

My bedroom. Yeah. She put all the kids in the basement when I turned five and yet they had a bedroom right adjacent.

[Desiree]

So that way because. And she knew that they were abusing you.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh yeah. Everything, everything just became my fault. I remember living there, I was probably, God, my mid-20s and my son and me and both my parents were on the stairwell and she Started screaming about me having sex with her husband right in front of my son. And I was just like, are you not okay like this? No, you're not the place.

[Desiree]

And raped me and molested me.

[Trey Farrow]

Right. This is not the place in front of my child to be having these. These conversations. Yeah. She was very much complicit in it. Even my oldest brother, when he got convicted and everything, I. I'm a snoop. You'll hear this from adopted people, too. We know something's a rogue, and. And so we go searching for answers. I always dug through this stuff when they would go on vacation. And so I found in a drawer a Mother's Day card that my brother had given to her shortly after he got out of jail. It was his report. It was all his reports. Why he did, in his own words, what he did to his daughter. Why he did what? Why would you give that to your mommy for Mom's Day?

[Unknown Speaker]

Why would you want to keep it? I mean.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. So weird. But guess who owns it now. Who? Me.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, wow.

[Trey Farrow]

I kept it. I don't know why. I don't know why. I have no clue why I kept it, but I kept it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, how old were you when you found that?

[Trey Farrow]

I'm 30.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

And I just. I kept it. I was like, this is. I just. Something in me knew that the type of people that they are, they will try to find a way that this wasn't true. This wasn't true. I'm the liar.

[Unknown Speaker]

So, like, your subconscious probably just kept it. Like, I'm making sure that I have.

[Trey Farrow]

Even if it isn't against me.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

It still shows that I should. I should have never been in this home. You know what I mean?

[Desiree]

Do you think I wonder too? Like, I wonder if your adoptive dad was abusing the boys that.

[Trey Farrow]

I have no clue. I read in the. The file for my brother trying to get hints to. That he only hinted to an uncle. And both the uncles I look at, and I'm just like, well, the one uncle is few years older than you, so I can't. I mean, it still could happen, but.

[Desiree]

Yeah, yeah, because that's. That the only reason why I thought that is because, like, you have the dad abusing you and the siblings abusing you, and I'm like, who's abusing these young boys? Or are they learning this from.

[Unknown Speaker]

From.

[Trey Farrow]

Right, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we just.

[Desiree]

Even that part of your story, let alone shows you the statistics are true when they say about adoptees getting abused.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, absolutely. And people really just want to deny they really do.

[Unknown Speaker]

We want to have this conversation because I think it's important that like we talked about, we said it like, I don't know how many times times today, but like, it just guarantees a way different life and sometimes a worse life than they would have maybe had if they stay with their biological parents.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. And I think you're touting as the grass is greener.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I mean, that's. I just, I'm so, I'm so sorry that you went through that. I mean, that's like. I mean, it's just intense. It's heavy. I'm emotional because I was. I, you know, experienced a lot of sexual abuse. And it's just like you being adoptee, I just like.

[Trey Farrow]

And I wonder if that's kind of what makes some of this okay to these people to abuse children because they're not biologically related to them. So that layer is gone. And so I think this is why, I truly believe this is why our statistics are so high, is we are with two complete and utter strangers. These are non biological strangers to us. And people tout that these people must be safer than our. Our biofamilies. And the statistics show complete opposites of that. I mean, we're overrepresented in every industry teen, the teen trouble teen, which is huge in Utah. Huge in Utah, that kids are being sent there, you know, mental health, substance abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, murder. Murder, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's crazy. I'm learning a whole different thing about Utah. Yeah. Whoa. Utah.

[Desiree]

It's always been kind of culty. Like, you know, you get that vibe from some of the people and stuff. And I feel like nobody was there to help you. You were just like left to it.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, absolutely. You know, and I think a lot of people want to believe that because these are good Christian people, that they don't have these racist ideologies and beliefs and stuff. But when I'm the kid and I can see that it's not just that my parents drink coffee and smoke cigarettes, it can. Kids are not playing with me because, you know, if the cigarette smoke is a problem.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

We were 80s outdoor kids. You know what 80s kids stayed in the room? None.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

So it just, it didn't make sense, you know, growing up and, and not being invited and, and seeing the difference and then getting into. What was it, 10? No. Had to have been junior high. Somewhere between seventh and ninth grade that that movie Jungle Fever came out. Oh, and it's got that stark black hand, the white hand on the COVID Oh, my days at school. Were hearing people tell me that that's how I was conceived. My parents had jungle fever and singing the song and just all of this stuff. And I'm just like, why? Why is this happening? And not having anyone to go home to say, you know, the kids are singing the jungle fever.

[Desiree]

Well, I wish I was your friend back then, because I'd be beating people's asses left and right. Like, that is disgusting.

[Trey Farrow]

It was it. But to me, I feel like one. I obviously didn't understand microaggressions. That's the other thing, not having language to know that this is a microaggression. This was blatant racism. This was this. And being able to come home and be like this was this. This was a microaggression. This was something.

[Desiree]

Well, because you can't even tell them because they're not going to believe you. And they probably wouldn't have cared even if you would have told them.

[Trey Farrow]

And I look at even aunts, uncles, all these people that watched with their own eyes the abuse from this woman and still said nothing. They failed to nothing. Nothing at all. And they wonder why I am no contact with anyone.

[Desiree]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Y' all. Exactly. You know, and I. I had another mother. You could say I grew up knowing this person as my sister since she was born. We're about eight years apart. And her mother was my mother's best friend. And I cherished this woman. I still have a lot of love for her, but now that I've actually been able to analyze and think about it and stuff, even she didn't protect me. And you are so close to my adopted mother, and you're seeing all this so much so that you removed yourself. That was the end of their friendship. Was constantly getting phone calls from my adoptive mother telling them or telling her what a horrible person I am, you know, oh, she did this, this, this, and this. I can't stand her. Blah, blah, blah. And she would defend me to a degree. But then at the end of the day, she just removed herself as a friend. They were no longer friends anymore. Right.

[Desiree]

She didn't call anybody on your behalf or help or anything.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep. And you. You could have completely removed me. So many people could have removed me from that home.

[Desiree]

And then, you know what it makes me think of is your birth father. You speaking about all of that and all the things that him just showing up to an empty house one day.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Desiree]

Oh, and then I. I don't know if you've met him or anything, but if you have, I'm just saying, like I couldn't imagine him having to hear everything that you went through. And he was excited for you. And he wanted, like, how heartbreaking.

[Trey Farrow]

Right. And. And that's the other thing about Utah. Fathers do not have rights in Utah. They'll, what, do a newspaper ad? Hey, did you lose a baby somewhere? They don't really do a lot. Utah is very notorious for adoption, coercion. There's websites dedicated to telling women, make sure that you fly this birth mother to Utah. I've had countless birth mothers tell me that they were left in apartments or hotels with just a plane ticket back. Wow. You know, and not even some of them even had children with them. And how are they supposed to get back with these. With their own, you know, with other kids that they had. And once the ink is dry in Utah, there is no revocation, period.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, there's an okay.

[Trey Farrow]

There's none.

[Unknown Speaker]

I saw someone. Someone sent me an ad saying that they had packages that they'll pay for these women to go to Utah, stay in a house and yes. Like, provide everything for them if they were willing to do adoption.

[Desiree]

And I'm like, basically when they get there, they just coerce and manipulate and brainwash them.

[Trey Farrow]

You will owe us, xyz, all this money and everything. If you do not complete right. The adoption plan, you're going to owe all this money. They're going to sue you. And none of that is true. None of that. What are they going to sue you for?

[Unknown Speaker]

Right, right. That's what I'm thinking.

[Trey Farrow]

It should all be legal by the book, what you can and cannot pay for. And if you're going off, off kilter, then that's. That's kind of on you, you know, And I can see being this young person and not understanding. Right. Your rights and being scared, like, oh.

[Desiree]

They'Re now they're going to come after me. I have to do this.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely.

[Desiree]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Flesh, your own flesh, you know, it kind of puts a whole new spin on that I owe my firstborn child that saying. Yeah, it kind of puts a whole new spin on I owe you my firstborn child. Because they really do. In the end of the day, they really feel like they owe, you know, their firstborn child. My dad, I did talk to him a few times. I don't know if me and him. It triggered something in him. Okay. I am his only child out there. He has no other kids that I know of. Nobody popped up on my DNA. But it, I think it really hurt him. But also, he is in this, this realm of I can Tell it did a mental toll on him, his life, everything. Which.

[Desiree]

How couldn't it.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. What kind of ruined it for us was kind of this the same thing. Some of the same things with my maternal side. Nobody wanted to hear about my negative experience.

[Unknown Speaker]

Even, Even.

[Desiree]

Even he didn't want to.

[Trey Farrow]

None of them did. None of them. Well, we don't want to talk about that. We don't want to know about that. And it's like, how do you not want to know?

[Desiree]

Right. This stuff happened and what I went through.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. It. And it goes back to society really only wanting to hear these positive happy stories that make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and not the truth that I know doesn't sit comfortable with people. And obviously they were touted that they were giving me a better beautiful life. And to hear that that wasn't the case, I'm sure is something for them too.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

But my dad was still in love with my mom, my birth mom. And weird. I had to. I, I straight up hung up on him.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I bet.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

We're on the phone talking and all of a sudden he's like, well, you can't talk about your mother. I called her a. Or something and he's like, you can't talk about your mother that way. And I'm like, excuse me, sir. And he's like, I am still in love. That is your mother and I. Oh no.

[Desiree]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

I couldn't hang up. I'm like, where is the old fashioned phones?

[Desiree]

Right, right, right. Or like the razor.

[Trey Farrow]

You needed that effect. But it was in my head and I just. Ooh. That made me instantly back away. You are still in love with the woman who left you.

[Desiree]

Right? Yeah, yeah, right. And took me and gave me to somebody else.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, I, I even lost money in that one. I had booked a whole hotel, the flight, all of it, a package. And everything fell through to go see him. Yeah, he's in, he's in California. My birth mother is in sister or in Colorado. Okay. So everybody was relatively close to go see and connect with.

[Unknown Speaker]

And, and so how old are you when you.

[Trey Farrow]

This is all in the last, like 4ish.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. So this is, this is recent.

[Trey Farrow]

This is.

[Unknown Speaker]

What was it like when you met your birth mom?

[Trey Farrow]

You know, all those feelings hit you at once. You know, you're seeing this person. You have been in a fairy tale imaginative world. Your dreams are coming true in this moment. And it quickly came crashing. Our first visit was us in a trailer. We went camping. We met at a mutual area and we went camping and. And they own a fifth wheel and everything. And so I just stayed with them. And it was the most awkward, uncomfortable, really.

[Unknown Speaker]

You say them, so I'm assuming she was.

[Trey Farrow]

So it was her. Her husband.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Trey Farrow]

Two kids and my mom were all in this fifth wheel, and it was.

[Desiree]

For the first time meeting her.

[Trey Farrow]

These are your half birthdays. Oh, it was. Don't ever. Do not ever meet your parents on your birthday. Don't do it. I will look in the camera and say, yeah, don't do it. Because it. Birthdays are already hard for us.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

That's your day that you were abandoned. And so to then go back and meet this person who abandoned you and celebrate your. Don't do it. Don't do it.

[Unknown Speaker]

So you're with your. So you said them. So your. Your. Your birth mom obviously got married and had more children.

[Trey Farrow]

No, she don't. My. My sister tried to do this whole. Oh, look, we. We have the don't know our daddies. We're in the don't know our daddies club.

[Desiree]

Oh, gosh.

[Trey Farrow]

All a lie. She knows her dad. She has pictures with pictures. Pictures. She knew when he died. She knew everything. A lot of lies. There was a lot of lies. I came down there, I spent time with them in Colorado at Thanksgiving. Time flew my son in everything. You know, I was thinking, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this, right? And Thanksgiving was really hard. She cooked a recipe from the grandmother and wanted me to just head over heels. Love it. And I'm biting it, like, yeah. And my son's love. My son. He's over there. Like, this is the best. I'm like, mommy ever making that, so don't get the recipe, you know, but, yeah, it just. It was really hard. She was very showboaty about money and her lifestyle and, you know, our life completely. Oh, absolutely. You know, we can swipe our card for anything. Type of. Type of mentality.

[Desiree]

And what do you think that for, like, birth parents, what do you think that they can do differently to help an adoptee not feel comfortable when it comes to reunion?

[Trey Farrow]

You know, I. I get that we shouldn't expect anything from these people.

[Unknown Speaker]

I think you should, though.

[Trey Farrow]

You do, but you don't. Like, I don't expect certain things, but I do expect, like, my medical history and a few questions, like, have respect. To answer my question, absolutely. You're the ones kept in the dark, right? We were the ones in a closed adoption, not you. You still got to grow up with your biological family in every way. And we're over here with strangers wondering, where did we come from? Who do we look like? Do you draw like I do? Do you do this like I do? And so to meet these people, and you finally get to answer some of those questions, and they are abrupt and not wanting to listen. That right there, it shuts us down. For me, anyway. It shut me down even more because I felt like, oh, it's a turn here. Yeah, you don't want to hear about my life. You don't want to hear the good, bad, and the ugly. You only want to hear what you want to hear. And it was so surface level. Everything was just surface. Keep it on the surface. We're not going down deep. We're not delving into anything. And so I do believe that birth parents need to allow us that grieving time. Allow us to tell you our experience, allow us to ask questions. You know, if there's a question that maybe you completely are uncomfortable, put a pin in it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right?

[Trey Farrow]

I would rather my birth mother or birth father say, can we put a pin in that? Maybe I'm not ready to talk about that and address it later.

[Unknown Speaker]

I almost feel like, though, as a birth parent myself, like, I'm not putting a pin in anything. I. If I feeling something, I'm just gonna, like. I just feel like, as the adoptee, you deserve that. Unrestricted, just, like, let it all out. And I think as birth parents, I think, no, I think we have to sit there. I think we should listen. Even if it's like, super hard, Even if inside we want to say put a pin in it. It's like, no, you really just.

[Trey Farrow]

I want. Well, I. I guess what I'm saying when I say put a pin in it is maybe something.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's really hard for me. Or would you be transparent about the pain?

[Trey Farrow]

Because I get that going through a relinquishment is not going to be. I can never understand it from a first parent's standpoint. I will never understand that experience, just as they will never understand mine.

[Desiree]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

So if there was something I didn't want to talk about that they asked me, I would say, maybe could we put a pin in it?

[Unknown Speaker]

But you're the adapt.

[Trey Farrow]

Come back to it. It's true.

[Unknown Speaker]

You know what I'm saying? In my opinion, as a birth parent, I'm like, yeah, but you're still the child.

[Desiree]

And I think Tyler and I, we've always, like, prepped ourselves that no matter how hard of a question it is, no matter how emotional it makes us, no matter if we don't agree, maybe.

[Trey Farrow]

With what she feels, our duty, we're.

[Desiree]

Gonna sit and own it. And we will say anything and we will take accountability, apologize, we will cry. We will.

[Trey Farrow]

Whatever we have to do. Yeah.

[Desiree]

You know, but we've been, like, prepping ourselves for that. Like.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Because whatever it is. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because, like, you. Even with you saying, like, it just. It's just you're the. You. You need this. And I feel like as birth parents, we're the ones that, you know, put the adoptee in the situation. We have to just.

[Trey Farrow]

Right.

[Desiree]

But I don't think all birth parents think like that, obviously.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, but I mean, like, when I.

[Trey Farrow]

They don't.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Desiree]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker]

Because I. I think one thing that me and Kate always talked about was like, you know, reunions aren't always beautiful and reunions aren't always this. Like you said, I had this lala fantasy about what it's going to be like. And so. And I don't know how that's going to look like to the child who's adopted. So as a birth parent, we even have our own la la fantasy.

[Trey Farrow]

The running to your arm.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so I think me and Kate spent a lot of time preparing that. Like, you know, she may not want nothing, become her. I hate you. You totally ruined my life. And whatever. And then we have to bow our heads and you've just got to say, I'm so sorry. I love you, and that's it. And that's the only two words I believe that we have. Should be able to say.

[Desiree]

Yeah. Because we definitely have fantasized.

[Unknown Speaker]

Of course. I mean, I think it's natural. We're humans.

[Trey Farrow]

That is so natural.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Like, that is going to be natural. From all sides of this. I'm gonna say constellation. I hate the word triad.

[Unknown Speaker]

I actually love constellation.

[Trey Farrow]

I agree with you. I like constellation because we're just kind of all there.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Whereas the triad makes it three equal sides. We are not equal at all.

[Desiree]

That's a good point.

[Trey Farrow]

And it allows adoptive parents to feel as though they have this voice.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. They're on the same level. Their voice should be heard.

[Desiree]

And it's like Tyler and I always say, like, the adoptee and the birth parents lose everything.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Desiree]

And the. And the adoptive parents gain. They don't lose anything. They gain everything.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Desiree]

So they should be the one.

[Trey Farrow]

Other than maybe a biological child.

[Desiree]

Right. But like.

[Unknown Speaker]

But also a biological child that never was. So it's like.

[Trey Farrow]

Exactly.

[Unknown Speaker]

Even. Even when you talk about the adoptive parent losing Something. It's just. I just don't like to compare it.

[Desiree]

Because it's like, gain everything.

[Trey Farrow]

They don't lose. Yet you still grew up in your biological family.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. You still. Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

And you were still able to be a parent. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

It might have been biologically, but you were still able to be a parent. So, like, you really, like.

[Desiree]

I'm kind of like. So you sit down, please. Let everybody else talk.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. And have you noticed, you know, obviously you have. Society really puts these people on pedestals.

[Unknown Speaker]

You don't understand this.

[Trey Farrow]

I'm drawn.

[Desiree]

And why is that above everybody else.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep. I. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that, you know, go back to your crack mom where all of our mothers are druggies. They all didn't want us. They all, you know, were for poverty slums. I mean, every derogatory thing you can think of for a human being, they will throw that out as representation for first families. And it. Wow. It's so far from that. You know, our parents, you know, it's so diverse. It really is. You know, and I. I really think that that's where we need to have that conversation, that, you know, my negative experience will never negate someone else's experience. All these adoptees you've interviewed already. My experience will never negate theirs, and vice versa. We truly are not a monolith. We've all been adopted in different ways. We all went into completely different families, dynamics, everything, income brackets. Everything has been different for us. And so how could we have one similar outcome? The only thing that makes us all the same is that primal wound that, you know, especially for infant adoptees. Obviously there's still going to be a wound for foster youth.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

And that wound, I think, is what is the catalyst for a lot of our other issues. Our other issues, you know, the mental health. You know, you're going to see these patterns in us, the behavior issues, the depression, the suicidal ideation. I mean, I was seven when I started looking, you know, off of our balcony and going, you know, seven? Yeah. Oh, yeah, seven.

[Desiree]

Wow.

[Trey Farrow]

And I made myself. I had to make myself afraid of dying. Wow. As soon as I learned that clouds couldn't hold your weight, and everybody says, you go to heaven when you die. And I was like, well, they don't hold your weight. And if I got on a cloud, I'm just gonna fall through, and then I'm gonna die again. And then I'm gonna go back and die again. It just. I had to find any way possible to make Myself afraid of what I craved. You crave it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

You know.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

You crave not being in any of this because nobody's giving you the answers that you need. And so you just, why? Why am I here? And so, yeah, very, very, very young and not having anyone to, you know, men, no mental health, and nobody in.

[Desiree]

Your life at all.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. My adopted mother had a massive stroke when I was seven.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, wow.

[Trey Farrow]

Which did not help my mental. I was left to the devices of my brothers, my neighbor, and some family. We lived probably about 40ish minutes away from family, pretty much all of our family. And so the weekends, maybe I would go in and stay with them, but that was hard. That was hard to have a mother that just completely checked out. After. After that stroke, she checked out. She just sat on the couch, watched tv, smoked her cigarettes and drank her coffee, and that was her existence from a young age.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's. That's young. I mean.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, yeah. I literally had no mother.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

And that's another thing that people really don't want to realize. In adoption, we have the chance of losing another set of family, you know, which is double.

[Unknown Speaker]

Double the charm, double the impact. I mean.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. And it just, it really was hard to lose. And even my aunt, her sister threw it in my face. My adoptive mother, she says, wow, you know, you lost two mothers? And I'm thinking to myself, who says that? Who would say that? Where. Where were you, Andy? Yeah, where did you. Aunt Alice, where were, you know, where were you to pitch in and say, wow, you know, let me, Let me help my niece?

[Desiree]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

No, none of it. Look, I was still the problem. Yeah.

[Desiree]

Looking at it as, this is wrong. Hello.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep. And I just, you know, things like that will never not be seared into my brain that you're, oh, you left. You lost two others.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Desiree]

So obviously, I mean, just from yours, I'm guessing that you don't have a relationship, obviously, with your adoptive family whatsoever.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. Not going no contact was the last nail in the coffin. I needed that nail to be put in.

[Desiree]

When did you start that? The no contact?

[Trey Farrow]

The no contact. It had started slowly. Started in my 20. Well, 17, when I started going by my middle name. So I started going by my middle name because I wanted to distance myself. That was my first step at distance. And then I moved to Maryland in my 20s and that didn't work out, and I had to tuck tail and come back. I moved to Vegas and that didn't work out, and I had to tuck tail and come back, and it kind of Just told me that you can't do anything without these people. I was so trauma bonded that I just told myself, you can't do anything, anything without these people.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can you explain trauma bonded? For people who don't understand, trauma bonding.

[Trey Farrow]

Meant that I went with the safest option. So the safest option in my home was still always my dad. Even though he was highly my abuser, he also was the one that swooped in and was nice and kind and. And was nice.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I even compared everything else like he was.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, I confronted him before he died. I confronted him. W. You can hear on the. On the recording, my voice is shaking. I was completely higher than a kite because this was the only way that I can confront this man.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

You can hear the voice change. I almost sound really young, like a child.

[Unknown Speaker]

Infantile.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Approaching this man that I had feared all my life, but also was very stuck, like glue to. I confronted him and I said, you know, why did you apologize to me randomly when I was 20 for the stuff that you did to me as a kid? And just hearing him on tape talk about how it was just silly stuff, and I'm just, what, sir? And he even says in this tape that he. He says, I did nice things for you because she wouldn't. So he knew. He knew. It's like they both knew what disgusting role they were backing each other up with. You know, she defended him against, you know, the stuff he was doing. Blamed me for it, but then he defended me against her. So of course I chose him. He was the nicer of the two abusers.

[Unknown Speaker]

The lesser two evils. Yeah, they're both, too. Both evil. So I think. Because I think people get that that terminology can infuse where it's like, trauma means you are bonding with someone with your abuser, someone who is not safe for you.

[Trey Farrow]

I mean, Stockholm syndrome. People know the term Stockholm syndrome, even though it goes way deeper.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Than that. But it is. It really is kind of a stockhomy type of thing. I've grown up with these people. I've known nothing other than these people since seven days old. And so for me, you just. Yeah. It's so easy to stock home your.

[Unknown Speaker]

Way through survival so much. It's really a survival strategy that you have to kind of just adopt, unfortunately, to get through this, to even make close to a little bit of sense of what's happening.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep.

[Unknown Speaker]

And then crazy.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, I think confronting him. And I even played that for my middle brother, who I was, and he just. Yep.

[Unknown Speaker]

And he still Chose no emotion at all from that.

[Trey Farrow]

None of it. None of it. They all just chose each other.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know how you ended up so great. I really. Because you. I can sense.

[Trey Farrow]

Hold up.

[Unknown Speaker]

I can sense the empathy, though.

[Trey Farrow]

I've been a shitty human. We all been a shitty. But I'm glad cameras and social media were not around in my 20s.

[Unknown Speaker]

Sure, you wouldn't have been on MTV.

[Trey Farrow]

But, you know, I. I want to always strive to be a better person than I was the day before. And if that comes from me having to realize that I have done shitty things to people, I've been a horrible human to people, then that's what it's going to take. But at the end of the day, I want better. You know, it's just like with advocating and doing this, you know, I. It is an emotional toll on me. It is emotionally laborsome, but at the end of the day, it is not for me. This is not fully for me. This is for the little adoptee that feels like their voice is not being heard, that they don't have people to side with them, to listen to them. I will listen to you. You know, I get a lot of adoptees that will send me messages and say, I feel seen as blunt as you are. I finally feel seen because I'm saying the things that they want to say, but know that they're going to hurt someone to say it. And I do. At this point, y' all have hurt me enough. I do not care that I hurt you. I do not care that you're getting hurt. In the process of me healing, but also making and paving, hopefully paving a way for other little adoptees to say, you know what? I can stand in my truth. No matter who isn't listening, who doesn't respect me, I'm going to stand in.

[Desiree]

My truth and speak it.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because our narrative has been taken from us, stolen. You're telling a child that you are grateful, lucky, that they must be grateful, Lucky, blessed. You are 100 telling that child's story for them, you know, and we've got adoptive parents. It really irritates me to see how many adoptive parents will adopt and then monetize off this adoption. Oh, look, we're adopting. Money, money, money. Look, we're doing this. And it's. And it's funny because it's the same things that y' all are getting blamed for that you won't stop monetizing off of this child. But it's. Do y' all have that same energy for all these Adoptive parents out here, they don't. Pushing this narrative that they adopted this child and everything's great.

[Desiree]

They don't. Because all their comments are like, I'm so happy for you.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, see, Jesus knew. Heard your prayer, all that stuff. I'm like, I have gone through three Tick Tock accounts because y' all can't handle my truth. But how many of these adoptive parents, with hundreds and thousands and millions of followers, are you listening to their every spoken word? You're watching this adoption. You're seeing the beautiful side, but whose eyes are you seeing it through? Why does the world know your child's adoption story before they understand their story?

[Desiree]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. They probably don't even know it, too. That they're adopted. Yeah. And here you are. Hey, everyone. We adopted.

[Unknown Speaker]

Look how great we are. We're saving.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. That.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's a horrible. The savior complex, I've realized, is so rampant.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I didn't realize that that was even, like, part of it until hearing all the. Actually, the most backlash that I've seen is from other adoptees, which I was shocked. I was like, whoa. Like, I didn't realize.

[Desiree]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I didn't realize the biggest opposition was going to be other adoptees who are. So I was going to ask you, like, how did you. When did you first read the primal rune? When did the fog kind of. When did you even realize what that was?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. So Siobhan, first birth mother. I can't remember his name. Siobhan was the first birth mother on Instagram that I started to follow. I wanted to. I didn't follow adoptees first. I followed a birth mother.

[Unknown Speaker]

Interesting.

[Trey Farrow]

Because I kind of wanted to understand the mindset of relinquishment. I wanted to see where. Where the hell, you know, is this coming from? And so I just kind of silently followed Siobhan for a long time and just watched her cry for a morsel of her child. And I was like, you know, and. And did it feed into my own fantasy? Absolutely. You know, this is. This has to be what my birth mother is going through, you know, agony. No, but I needed that. I needed that first. And then I started following other transracial adoptees on Tick Tock and listening to them talk freely about how they felt in these homes where they didn't fit really was another added layer that I. I needed.

[Desiree]

Well, I think it makes you. It makes you not feel alone.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, absolutely. We have this trauma too.

[Desiree]

Right. And as humans, we need that. To not feel alone is huge.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. And so to hear them Talk and explain, you know, how they felt. And I felt seen. I felt so seen for the first time ever. And just from there, it just kind of. It snowballed. I have no regrets on losing any of my accounts.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Because I think it's made me grow as a person and understand more of how to do this. And, you know, when I. Three years ago, when I first started doing this, was I angry? Did I come across me? Absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Desiree]

But I feel like you had the right to feel angry.

[Trey Farrow]

Anger is a valid.

[Desiree]

It is available. Yes.

[Trey Farrow]

It's so valid. It does cover up. You know, therapy obviously teaches you. It covers up for xyz, usually sadness.

[Desiree]

Sadness and hurt is under. Underneath anger.

[Trey Farrow]

That emotion will. And you're like, over here. They're like, angry. That's the bottom. Go up the branch and tell me how you really feel. Right. And you're like, therapy has been amazing. I feel like I've healed in different chapters. You know, we healed the sexual abuse, and then I hurt. Healed some of this stuff with my mom, or at least I thought I did with my adoptive mom. But it's. It's been nice. And now I'm healing the racial trauma. I. Until I took a psychological evaluation, I didn't realize. The lady sat me down and she says, do you realize how racially traumatized you are? And I was like, no.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

We're supposed to be quiet about that.

[Desiree]

Right, Right.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, that's a whole nother layer of trauma you just added. Thank you. And so now the therapist I have has really been so healing in that racial traumatized area. She just freely lets me talk and. And explore that. That side that I. I didn't get to explore and talk about it. And I'm getting to talk about it with another black woman that really just, like, she gets it. I don't have to explain, you know, well, this is a microaggression.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right, right, right.

[Trey Farrow]

She's. You know, there's even things that we. You know, she's telling me, and I'm like, like, yeah, I can see that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, so there. It's. It's really come full circle. And I. I'm happy where. With where it's progressing. I'm. I'm seeing change. I'm seeing people wake up. Granite. I have to go through a load of hate.

[Unknown Speaker]

Us too. Yeah, we.

[Trey Farrow]

I mean, society rides hard.

[Desiree]

It's so gross.

[Trey Farrow]

Hard for adoption. And it's like, y' all don't even know what it's like.

[Desiree]

No, they don't. A lot of the time.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Desiree]

A lot of the times they're not involved in adoption.

[Unknown Speaker]

The ones that ride the hardest are like, you're not even related. Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

My neighbor.

[Desiree]

Like, what's going on?

[Trey Farrow]

You know, and, and again, going back to, you know, the monolith, you know, all of our experiences are different. We all came from different backgrounds. You know, an infant adoptee is definitely going to have a different view and opinion on their adoption than say a foster child who maybe was abused in their previous home and now got a healthy home for them to be in, which is the goal. You know, a healthy home, a safe external care.

[Desiree]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

And so for them to go into healthy from unhealthy, their experience is going to be different and that, you know, honor them all. I, I love that our community is getting better at. My realm is private infant adoption, transracial adoption. I'm not here to hit on foster care. I'm not here to hit on kinship. You know, there's adoptees, what I personally went through, you know, there's going to be the kinship adoptees that are right, they still struggle, you know, there's still a struggle in being even with your own family still. So yeah, we're all coming out this just from so many different angles.

[Unknown Speaker]

The one that everyone has in common is that they are, you know, in this adoption consolation. So in your opinion, what, what, what needs to change? What needs to change in this whole system, adoption industries and industry? It is. Which I realize is also people get very upset about. So like what do needs to. What do we do?

[Trey Farrow]

In my opinion, I think the foster and adoption systems need to be federalized. I feel like every state needs to have the same playbook. You know, that none of this, let's fly your, fly your mother up to Utah so we know that the ink is dry and you're guaranteed a baby. We need to take the consumerism out of it. These children should not come with a cost. We. Adoption is a 25 billion dollar a year industry. They price these children based upon their age, ethnicity, gender, abilities. These are. Why are these children priced differently?

[Desiree]

Right, right.

[Unknown Speaker]

That right there is just like.

[Desiree]

And why is there a price at all? It should be fine.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, exactly. I can understand, you know, and everybody likes to say it's just legal fees. Oh no, they would all be, you know, come on around the same. You know, the fact that parents, foster and adoptive parents are getting stipends for children, they're getting tax breaks for children. These are things that could have really helped a first family to stay together. I. I do feel as though we need more family planning type of programs for families in crisis, for these women in crisis, so they can be educated on fully what adoption is. Yeah. None of it is informed consent.

[Unknown Speaker]

None of it is. And we.

[Trey Farrow]

None of it.

[Unknown Speaker]

And it's hard to accept, honestly, years down the line as birth parents target, like look back and think, wow.

[Desiree]

And I really get angry sometimes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Desiree]

And I find myself getting mad sometimes because I'm like, what the. I was never told the statistics of adoptees. I was never told of pre verbal trauma. I was never told of, you know, how they struggle more with mental health or addiction or suicidal ideation or. No, you're literally told nothing.

[Trey Farrow]

No, nothing.

[Desiree]

And I could go on and on about things that I've learned that I was not aware of.

[Trey Farrow]

Exactly. And they, And I feel like the industry keeps it that way. They wouldn't have babies.

[Desiree]

Yeah. They don't want us.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, if you knew the trauma that that baby could potentially have, you.

[Desiree]

Know, but legally, I think it should have to be shared.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. And I think if we federalized a lot of these systems, it really would take them back. They're not industries anymore.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

They would be. It would be a system.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. The commodity.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. Modifications shouldn't be buying a child like you're buying a car.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. You know, you shouldn't be able to say peanut butter skin. You know what I mean? That shouldn't even be a thing. Like what?

[Trey Farrow]

You know, ethics is just so.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Because I'm disturbing.

[Desiree]

I remember hopping up, hopping on tick tock, you know, newly coming out of my own birth parent fog. And I would see adoptees on there and their background would be like, adoption is no different than human trafficking. Or it is human trafficking. And I would sit on there because I'd be like, what? Like how? You know, and then I would hear these people explain human trafficking to the people that are coming on there, trying to argue it. And I'm like, holy. There's no difference.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. People don't want to realize it's human trafficking, that it's like a legal human trafficking. It's selling children. You know, adoption in the United states breaks about 15 out of 30 rights of a child that are set forth by the UN. However, we don't recognize the UN's Convention of Children here. We, we don't recognize it here in the United States. I can't imagine why.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, right.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, to hear that the acpca, the animal rights, they were the first ones to recognize that children needed Protection. They helped set up what we know is CPS today. Wow. But animals had rights before first. Children horribly abused before they were like.

[Unknown Speaker]

And also people don't realize that this is a. A American problem. This is like not mostly in America. Mostly.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker]

Other countries have already learned. They have, they have.

[Trey Farrow]

This is why you're seeing so many crackdowns from what was China's the last.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

They said recently they're like, no, we're good.

[Unknown Speaker]

No.

[Trey Farrow]

And there's a Congress, men, I think, somebody in the political realm that is trying to get China to release these children that were already promised to families.

[Desiree]

Oh, no. Good for China.

[Trey Farrow]

Sorry. Yeah. I'm like, good for them.

[Unknown Speaker]

They know, listen, we all have a problem when China's like, hey, we're not.

[Trey Farrow]

We have a problem when any country. Right, right.

[Unknown Speaker]

We're not saying to America because we've seen what's happening, like, there's no protection here.

[Trey Farrow]

And I think there's not.

[Unknown Speaker]

The whole point about it is, is that, you know, the fact that adoption exists is we've already failed these women and I, you know, and the fact that we're commodifying children already. Wrong. Before we even get to the point of talking about adoptive parents deserving children or deserving to be a parent, like we already.

[Desiree]

Nobody deserves somebody else's baby.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely.

[Desiree]

It's not deserve.

[Unknown Speaker]

Being a parent isn't a right, you.

[Trey Farrow]

Know, to see anywhere where it says parenting is a rite of passage in this life. You know, there, there is no, no guarantee to any of it. And do I feel for these people 100%. I am somebody who had. Had a child, so I can't imagine not having a child, but I can't. I also, in that same breath, can't imagine going and taking someone else's. And you know, I read a story just today of a couple. They adopted two infants four months apart from each other. You.

[Unknown Speaker]

Whoa.

[Trey Farrow]

Two birth. Wait, I'm like doing the math and I'm thinking to myself, like, all that money couldn't have. You know, did they need somebody right in their corner to help them?

[Desiree]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

And it drives me nuts that we as a society see these GoFundMes. Oh, for adoptive parents and. Or hopeful adoptive parents. And there's hundreds of thousands of dollars in there so they can buy a human. And yet a woman over here in crisis. Thousand dollars car seat, whatever.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. If she would. If she made a GoFundMe that she'd be vilified.

[Trey Farrow]

If you can't afford a baby, the baby stuff, you can't afford the baby. Well, they can't afford to buy the baby. Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you're fine donating to them saying, God bless, good luck. It's like, what. Which was a whole nother thing of that we're centering the wrong people.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely.

[Desiree]

As a culture, we just have it completely twisted.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Learning of the tax credit for adoptive parents really bothered me bad because $16,000 and me, and me and Kate, you know, when we were 16, do you know what that would have done?

[Trey Farrow]

Yep.

[Unknown Speaker]

A 16.

[Desiree]

If we would have known more than enough.

[Unknown Speaker]

A tax credit for, you know, struggling parents, teen parents. Like, that would have been huge.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, I mean, that would have.

[Trey Farrow]

Make it or break it.

[Desiree]

I probably would have needed five grand if that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Desiree]

If that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Desiree]

Get my own apartment in a car and I would have been set.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep. It's usually those initial upfront costs.

[Desiree]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

That a lot of these mothers need. I mean, because if you think about it, when these hopeful adoptive parents are adopting these babies, these womb wet babies, I like to say.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

They are in the hospital. They're doing, you know, it is a cosplaying role. You are cosplaying, playing this role of parenthood. This. You are trying to get as close as you can. We've seen him put on gowns and get in beds and, you know, rent out private hospital.

[Unknown Speaker]

Are you serious? I. I did not know.

[Desiree]

So they can do skin to skin.

[Trey Farrow]

And, and all of this stuff.

[Unknown Speaker]

They put a gown.

[Desiree]

Oh, that's some handmaid's tail right there.

[Trey Farrow]

That is handsmayt Hell is an accurate portrayal of adoption in the mayor in America.

[Desiree]

Yeah. Because it's these women that don't want to do. But they're being forced or coerced to do it and.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep. And people always. Well, nobody wants a baby conceived out of rape. These women did. You showed every single one of these women absolutely. Wanting their babies.

[Desiree]

They did.

[Trey Farrow]

Are there cases where women do not want. Absolutely. And we can address those cases as they come. But society really has this narrative and belief that we are so unwanted. We, you know, our parents, drugs, all of this, they're abusive. This stuff.

[Unknown Speaker]

In fact, say otherwise.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker]

We just talked to Gretchen. She just talked about 95% of birth moms wanted to parent.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. They just lack the support and the resources.

[Desiree]

And that's why whenever we get hate or I'm on a live and I get hate, really what I tell people is take even just five minutes out of your day and educate yourself about adoptees and the statistics and if that. That doesn't bring to light certain things or change your mind of certain things, then something is wrong with you. I think like just 5 minutes, even 3 minutes.

[Trey Farrow]

60 seconds. 60 second tick tock.

[Desiree]

There you go.

[Trey Farrow]

To understand how disabled people are viewed in. In TV show and media, I watched a 60 second tick tock and I was like, oh, my God, we really do do this to people, right? Totally. With people with disabilities, highlight them in such atrocious ways in movies and television and just all of it. 60 seconds, that's all it took. But in 60 seconds, when it comes to an adoptee saying, you know, trauma. Adoption is trauma. They've already tuned me out. They've already tuned me out at the word trauma. They're like, it's not trauma. These kids are happy and healthy and well taken care of, and they're better off.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's almost like they. They act like they're like immune to, like they just. Or like it's like some kind of infection that they accept this fact, like fully warped their whole moral code. It's like, just chill out. And just like, I see it as.

[Trey Farrow]

We'Re tearing down that belief, that narrative. They've had this belief in narrative. You know, we've seen it in Annie. What did Annie do? You got Daddy Warbucks. Yeah, she's living the high life, right? Pollyanna High life, American Girl, Samantha High life, Anna Green Gables. All of these. All of these older shows, I feel like kind of set the stage. And then we get into the 80s and we have Cabbage Patch Dolls. You're adopting a Cabbage Patch doll. You're naming it. You're getting a birth certificate. You're sending that in and you're getting another amended birth certificate. Your information on it.

[Unknown Speaker]

But adopt these sealed records. That's weird. That's. So how old are you, by the way? When. When did you even know about 16 and pregnant or the like. Did that ever.

[Trey Farrow]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. So I followed 16 and pregnant because once I heard the adoption narrative of it, I was like, oh, you know, I. I feel like us adoptees kind of gravitate. At least I did. We gravitate to some of these family. Anything with family to place. Right placement. I feel like we kind of gravitate to.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because we're. Yeah.

[Desiree]

Curious.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

How's it gonna go out for them?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Right, right, right. Play out. And the fact that it was. Yeah. You were young. It was the same thing with me following Siobhan. I wanted that birth parent. What's gonna happen. How's this gonna play out? Are they gonna relinquish everybody? Yeah. So I did follow Yalls story pretty, pretty closely and then. But I'm also not a. I don't do a lot of reality tv. I don't follow celebrities. And so after that was kind of said and done, I kind of just, you know, checked out. And then I would see things pop up and stuff like that. But you know, the hate that y' all get, I. It's. It's next level. I mean the hate that my community gets is disturbingly next level. I can't imagine. And that's what I need society to realize. Would you say the things that you are saying to a grown up adult adoptee? Would you say that to a child. If you have a child in your home under the age of. We'll say a 11.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

You know.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Would you say the things that you're saying to us? Would you say, oh, they should have left you in a dumpster. You should have been aborted. You should have been. They would never been adopted. You're not deserving of it. You're so angry.

[Desiree]

Most of them all are.

[Trey Farrow]

For every time I was told I.

[Desiree]

Was ungrateful, most of them would never. You always have a handful of stickos, but most of them, most of them never would.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. And you know, and people need to realize adoptees, we make up 2% of the American population. We are so small and marginalized.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Oh my. Listen, they. I got yelled.

[Desiree]

I mean, I got freaked out on.

[Unknown Speaker]

I am not a minority. I'm like, I am so. I'm not. I didn't even mean. I didn't even mean to like, you can't label me. And I'm like, then don't.

[Trey Farrow]

I mean, I'm not.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm just. It's a fact. You're 2%.

[Trey Farrow]

That is a marginalization group. And people need to realize we are a group that lacks certain rights that everyone takes for granted. You would be able to walk in and go grab your original birth certification if you get no issues.

[Desiree]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

I can't do that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Except for today. Today it was. Or was it today? I got notice of it the other day. I think today he officially signed it that it is law. So in Utah I can finally have access to my original birth certificate and file with. There is still a caveat that a birth parent can, you know, safety issue. But I've already met the beezy, so.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right, right.

[Trey Farrow]

What safety issue now. Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's great.

[Trey Farrow]

I'm. I'm so excited, you know, and if you can't understand why me having my original birth certificate is so important and so crucial for me to have. For us to have as adopted people. That is such a privilege for you to have.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. That you, you know, that we take for granted people. We take a lot of those stuff. A lot of that stuff for granted.

[Trey Farrow]

Absolutely. That you can just walk in and get your. Your medical history, even.

[Unknown Speaker]

See, my sister had the same laugh. Genetic mirroring that we.

[Desiree]

I mean, so many things.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. So many things people like, really like, whoa.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah. Genetic marrying is. Oh, wild.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, it's huge.

[Trey Farrow]

Wild to see, you know, and had my birth mother relinquished me to my father in his care, I would have gotten to grow up. I looked more like my paternal side.

[Unknown Speaker]

I. Oh, wow.

[Trey Farrow]

I had an aunt in him and. And somebody else on that, where they could not believe how much I looked like their mother, my grandmother. They're like, you look like you reincarnated. Wow. And that, to me, I could have grown up with this woman's face and been able to see her face. One of my little things that I deal with is morphing. I have a lot of body dysmorphia when it comes to not having genetic mirroring. I will do things, put on makeup or. Or do my hair, do something, and I'll look in the mirror. And if I'm having an off day, I morph. It's because I have morphed my adopted mother's face into my face. And so I'm looking for a reflection that doesn't exist. And it's not done on purpose done, because that was the face I grew up so seeing. And so I'm trying to morph it into mine. And when I had my child, he is cut, paste, put a penis on it. He. He is me. I. I could not believe it. I'm like, I birthed my twin.

[Unknown Speaker]

Did that impact you at all as an adoptee, having your first.

[Desiree]

Like, your first.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Desiree]

Your first genetic mirroring?

[Trey Farrow]

I. I can't tell you how impactful that was. To look at his toes, his fingers, his nose, his lips, his eyes, his ears, everything about him when he started his hair, and I'm like, oh, it's curly. Like moms, you know, to see him has been so healing. And I know that our children.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know, yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Are not here to heal us. They're not here to do anything for us other than exist. But that. That healed. That healed a huge part of me to finally see genetic mirroring somebody that shared my features and and all that. And for people that, you know, I have tons of people. Genetic mirroring. That's, that's, you know, pseudoscience. The it ain't, yeah. The it ain't to know that you, you got this trait from somebody. You look like this person, you do these things like them. You know, even though I don't have a relationship with my mom, my birth mom, she's an artist, she likes to draw.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh.

[Trey Farrow]

And so to learn that I got stuff like that from these people is so healing to know that. Oh, I, I, you, you know and when I got pictures of my, my grandmother on my paternal side and could see the genetic mirroring and I just. Thank you. I, I, I could not, I couldn't. I just, it's so healing and there's are so many things that people just don't want to realize. I also another thing going back. Sorry to what things need to change. Open adoptions.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, if, if at the end of the day, after every other resource has been exhausted and child is still in a detrimental crisis that needs to be detrimental crisis.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Not just needing, you know, a detrimental crisis. That it is that we are still in community with our families when they are safe.

[Desiree]

Safe.

[Trey Farrow]

If our families are safe. Why are we not knowing who they are? What, what is this push to wait till we're 18?

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Right.

[Desiree]

Yeah. Why?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, I think, you know, push to the 18 things. Really weird because I've, I've, I've gotten so many stories of they go to search at 18 and they're dead.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Bio parents are dead. And I'm like, yes. And all because they were protecting their adoptive parents feelings. I'm like, wow. So that now that adoptee has to deal with that.

[Trey Farrow]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

That they self betrayed for their comfort. And now also double the trauma because now the bio parents dead. So the whole wait till 18 thing is just.

[Trey Farrow]

And go back to when you were 18.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Go back to when you were 18. You're still trying to figure out who the fuck you are, where you fit in this world, how you're going to fit in this world. You have all of these feelings of coming into adulthood and 18 is too young.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

And you are going to now put on this child. Oh yeah. Now go find your family.

[Desiree]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

On top of everything, not even developed yet. And you're putting that, you're compounding more trauma on. I feel like it compounds more trauma onto us. And you know, obviously I don't have a statistic for this one, but I would love to know how many reunions past 18 fell and how many are successful?

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

And are they more successful at an earlier age going forward compared to when. Yeah, that cut off.

[Unknown Speaker]

That'd be interesting to know.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep. And there. I can't remember the name of it right now. It's some adoption council and he. They came out with a statistic in a report. They did a survey of infant adoption and he came out with all these beautiful statistics. But when you actually click on the link and you look at where he got these statistics from the.

[Unknown Speaker]

The NA Counselor. I know, I think you know, you're talking about. Yes.

[Trey Farrow]

Council. Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Their highest donors.

[Trey Farrow]

Catholics all bias.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's all it.

[Trey Farrow]

All of it. Was he. He specifically said on there not to share this survey on social media. He. And. And then when you look at who took the survey, there were all these people that didn't qualify in infant adoption. If you're touting these as statistics for infant adoptees, then you needed people. They would have had to have been privately adopted. Most likely privately adopted. You know, very rarely do you get an international child that is a womb wet baby.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Or a child from the foster system that has been TPR'd. Finally. That is a newborn baby. They're not TPR ing newborn babies.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. For people who don't know what's cpr.

[Trey Farrow]

TPR is termination of parental rights. They don't. You know, I mean we're not doing that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

You know, you had to go through all these documents.

[Desiree]

Oh my gosh. Yes. And wait 30 days.

[Trey Farrow]

So I mean it's not this cut and dry thing. And if. But if you're going to tout it. It as these statistics are cut and dry, I need.

[Unknown Speaker]

Which is crazy because I actually. I can't remember what it's called. National Association Adoption. I can't remember. Yeah. And I went to all their studies and then I went to all the donors that donated to have the study done.

[Trey Farrow]

And that's interesting.

[Unknown Speaker]

The top donors. Religion, religion, Catholic, Catholic, social. All these like. I'm like this is guys.

[Trey Farrow]

It makes sense though because they.

[Unknown Speaker]

It does.

[Trey Farrow]

If you look at religion and how religion views societal bastards, they feel as though getting these children into a two parent, Christian home, Catholic home, whatever, is saving the child. You're saving the child from the parental sins.

[Unknown Speaker]

No. That is so disturbing.

[Trey Farrow]

It's dystopian. It is so disturbing. Your case. It was religion.

[Unknown Speaker]

I mean it really was religion and racism.

[Trey Farrow]

It's played hand in hand. And a lot of biracial black children that ended up being adopted. Exactly. For that Reason we had a white mother that had a family that was not conducive of having this black child. That were racist. Yep. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yep.

[Trey Farrow]

I'm trying to be all nice about it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Conducive.

[Desiree]

They were racist. Yeah, they were racist.

[Trey Farrow]

So it's just. It's. It's been. I love meeting you. See how we get when we get together.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

It's it. It is it. We bond. We, for the most part, you know, a lot of us, when we get together, it's. We have that wound. We have that primal wound that just kind of makes it. We don't need to talk about it. You know, we talked about this, you know, last night. That for you, you being around other first mothers is healing for you because you feel heard.

[Desiree]

Yes.

[Trey Farrow]

You feel validated.

[Desiree]

Yes.

[Trey Farrow]

So for us to be around other adoptees, we feel heard and we feel validated. And the glitter bombers that, you know, the happy adoptees, I'm glad that they. If they are truly happy and got out of what adoption promised. I am literally. Yeah, thank you. I am so glad that that was your experience. And I. I truly am happy for them, you know, but for them to come in. Oh, I'm sorry. For your negative experience. How many. And that's what I would love to ask society. How many, many children are you. What percentage of children are you willing to allow to have a negative outcome just so you can hear and. And have good, warm, fuzzy feelings inside that you heard a good. A good story at some point?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, my whole thing is that these adoptees who are coming in here and kind of minimizing the ones who had negative experiences, it's like, listen, so let's find a positive one. Do you want to help me elevate?

[Trey Farrow]

Do you?

[Unknown Speaker]

Are you willing? I know you're the positive one. I'm happy for you. I did not. Will you help me?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Desiree]

Like, help us in the simple.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is that you're in the same community. I'm an adoptee. You're an adoptee?

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I had a bad one. You had a good one. Will you help me?

[Trey Farrow]

Yes. What made your adoption better? What were the steps that made your adoption?

[Unknown Speaker]

And if you don't want to help me, I. I feel like there's maybe some.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, but, like, why are you here? And it almost feels like they need that goodness validated. And if it was so good, why are you coming into somebody else's comment section that didn't have it good and trying to get validation from them? Right. For your good experience. I would never go into A DV victim class.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

And go. Oh, your husband did all that? Well, my husband. He's never.

[Desiree]

Right, right? No, never.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, you're right. Yeah.

[Desiree]

Never.

[Trey Farrow]

You would be. You would be that person.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[Trey Farrow]

Asked to swiftly exit stage left.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Trey Farrow]

You're here invalidating all these people.

[Unknown Speaker]

And that's why I'm like, more or less like the ones who had bad experiences. Like, will you help me? Help? Like, help.

[Desiree]

You mean the ones that have good head.

[Trey Farrow]

Good. Yeah. Like, what are you advocating for?

[Unknown Speaker]

What.

[Trey Farrow]

What are you doing to change the system? So you had. So other kids have a positive.

[Desiree]

And I think this is a start. We're all talking about it. People are starting to talk about it more.

[Trey Farrow]

Yep.

[Desiree]

We're starting to push for change, and that's all we can do. You know, and I just really appreciate you coming on here and being so.

[Trey Farrow]

Glad that you guys are doing this. Thank you. I. I love watching it kind of come full circle that you guys are coming out of your own fog and language and you're learning the language. You're learning the trauma. You're accepting the trauma.

[Desiree]

Well, just thank you for coming and being vulnerable and talking to us and, you know, this is all one step of change, you know.

[Unknown Speaker]

Absolutely.

[Desiree]

And I hope that we can all continue to have these conversations Lear. About adoptees. Do your own education and just thank you so much.

[Trey Farrow]

Yeah, thanks. Seriously, I. I really do appreciate you because not many people want to give us a voice.

[Desiree]

Oh, we're gonna get.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, we're good. We're.

[Trey Farrow]

Not many people want to give us a voice because we say the things that hurt.

[Desiree]

Hey.

[Unknown Speaker]

But it's valid. It needs to be said.

[Trey Farrow]

It does need to be said.

[Desiree]

People need to hear it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Trey Farrow]

Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker]

Thank you so much. We're so appreciative. Like, thank you.

[Trey Farrow]

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[Unknown Speaker]

You're going to need some backup, which.

[Trey Farrow]

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[Unknown Speaker]

Very cool.

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[Trey Farrow]

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[Unknown Speaker]

We got you.

[Trey Farrow]

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