ENCORE Being in our 30s & Growing Up with an Absent Father

Summary

Cate & Ty Break It Down

Episode Summary: ENCORE Being in Our 30s & Growing Up with an Absent Father

Release Date: April 15, 2026
Hosts: Catelynn & Tyler Baltierra (MTV's 16 and Pregnant, Teen Mom)
Publisher: PodcastOne

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Brief Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Catelynn and Tyler dive into the realities of life in their 30s, reflecting on how their priorities and social stamina have shifted over the years. The conversation then transitions to a raw exploration of Tyler’s upbringing with an absent, incarcerated, and addicted father, the emotional aftermath, and how those experiences inform his own approach to fatherhood. The episode wraps with listener-submitted “anonymous secrets” and advice for those facing fears about parenting after adoption. This ENCORE episode is rich with vulnerability, laughter, and wisdom gained through personal hardship and growth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Life in Your 30s: The Social Shift

Going Out Hits Differently

• Catelynn and Tyler recount their rare night out with friends and family in Detroit, including stops at Barcade and Moots Pizzeria (01:28-02:27).
• Detroit is highlighted as an underrated city with great food and events, but, as Tyler notes:
  “Detroit gets a bad rap…you gotta know where to go, where not to go…that’s like with any big city.” (02:37-02:44)

Changing Social Priorities

• Both describe how staying out too late and drinking now come with rougher consequences (03:00-04:10):
  • "Why does drinking feel like a chore? Why do I feel like I wake up in the morning every time and I regret it?” – Tyler (02:55)
  • Social anxiety increases as plans get complicated. Both admit they prefer structured plans over spontaneous gatherings. Tyler jokes, “Cancel, cancel, cancel! I don’t want to do it no more. I want to go home and get in my robe…” (04:18)
• Catelynn notes her enjoyment of being in bed by 9 pm watching trash TV, and both accept that getting old means finding comfort in routine and saying no to unnecessary social exhaustion (12:21).

"Irish Goodbye" as a Power Move

• The Baltierra’s embrace the “Irish goodbye”—leaving events quietly without long drawn-out goodbyes:

  “Once it hits me, I can’t, I cannot get the fall out of my head…planning it out, avoiding people who want to talk…looking for any opportunity to exit.” – Tyler (15:05-15:26)

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2. Generational Differences & Youthful Feral Days

Reminiscing about Wild Teenage Parties

• Cate & Ty reminisce about the “wild and feral” days of youth—unsupervised house parties, abandoned homes with DJs, and the freedom of a pre-smartphone era (16:18-18:29).
  • “House parties in the 2000s, you had to be there to even relate.” – Catelynn (17:30)
  • Contrasts with today’s teens, who they observe are more reserved and glued to phones at gatherings.

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3. Tyler's Experience with an Absent Father

First Memories & Family History

• Catelynn interviews Tyler about his earliest memories of his dad, who was mostly absent due to addiction and prison (20:34-21:26):
  • “I think I was, like, six…he stopped at our trailer, got out of his truck, rubbed my head. Super quick memory.” – Tyler (20:56)
• Tyler’s mom explained his father’s sporadic involvement: “She’d just say he had a problem.” (22:08)

Impact of Addiction and Family Dynamics

• Tyler’s sister Amber had more early memories; by the time Tyler was born, his dad was deeply addicted (22:19).
• Discusses his mother's near-abortion, precipitated by the pain of parenting solo and knowing her partner wouldn’t be present (22:38-23:14).

The Role of "Stand-In" Dads and Broken Attachments

• Tyler recounts bonding more closely with his mother’s boyfriend Rick, who stepped in as a father figure:
  • “He took me right under his wing…as a kid, he was really goofy…” (27:10)
• The trauma of losing Rick through an abusive breakup and his biological dad being repeatedly incarcerated: “My very first memory as a child was bounty hunters looking for him.” (33:17)

Emotional Aftermath, Grieving a Fantasy, and Becoming a Father

• Tyler reflects on how he fantasized about his dad and, as reality set in, had to “burn down his own dream” of that version of his father (31:34-32:19).
  • “He’s strong, but he’s weak. Like, you know what I mean? All these things. And so you have to, like, allow the fantasy to burn. And so I think that’s when I was like, all right, fuck this guy.” (32:06)
• Catelynn emphasizes how Tyler’s trajectory—having no positive model—has made his own approach to parenting all the more impressive (36:06):
  • “You are more of a dad than he ever could have ever been or even ever wanted to be…you just did completely different of your dad. And I think it’s amazing to see.” – Catelynn (35:25-36:51)

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4. Breaking the Cycle: Love, Therapy, and Intergenerational Change

• Cate & Ty discuss their commitment to breaking generational cycles, including getting therapy at age 17, delaying marriage for nearly a decade, and being intentional with their parenting choices (40:09-41:12).
  • “It ends with us—period. I will not continue, I will not allow this to continue.” – Tyler (39:53)
• Both reflect on how modeling healthy love for their daughters is crucial:
  • “Parents, you teach your children how it is to be loved or what it looks like to be loved by somebody.” – Catelynn (41:22)

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5. Raising Daughters (and Sons) for a Better Future

• Tyler shares his sense of duty, especially as a father to all girls, to display healthy masculinity and partnership (43:32):
  • “I feel a deeper sense of duty as a father, for one, but a father to all girls. It’s like, you guys need to know there are men that are not like this.” (43:06)
• Both discuss the importance of raising sons to embrace emotional literacy and equality, and cite “Driven by Jamie” as a model for teaching boys to think critically about gender norms (47:07).
• “If you want to know how to be compassionate, ask children.” – Tyler (48:04)

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6. Listener Anonymous Secrets & Parenting After Adoption

Standout Listener Secrets (51:50-53:09)

• Humorous and diabolical confession: Scrubbing the toilet with a stepmom’s toothbrush.
• Scandalous: An ex-husband sending explicit love letters to the listener’s mother even after divorce.

Advice for Parenting After Adoption (54:27-60:59)

Q: “I’m scared to be a mom again after having to place my child(ren) for adoption five years ago.”

• Catelynn and Tyler encourage therapy, patience, and self-compassion:
  • “You have to grieve and give yourself grace…unfortunately, I feel like with adoption, you grieve for a lifetime.” – Cate (55:14-55:32)
  • Tyler: “Your body holds onto that trauma. Women, the cells of that infant are forever in your body. If you don’t process that loss, it’ll be scary.” (56:01-56:36)
  • Society’s expectation to “get over it” is deeply harmful; both emphasize support, therapy, and rejecting societal minimization of adoption trauma (59:34-61:06).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Getting Older:

  “Now every time anyone’s like, oh…even thinking about staying up past one is just like, that sounds stupid, right?” – Catelynn (09:15)

• On Planning Anxiety:

  “For some reason, it started short-circuiting my brain…plans are allowed to evolve, but I want the plan to stick to the plan.” – Tyler (05:20-06:37)

• On Role Modeling Love:

  “I have faith that my daughters will pick somebody…they’re gonna be like, ‘I ain’t never seen my daddy call my mama a [name],’ like what? And leave.” – Catelynn (42:26)

• On Breaking Cycles:

  “We cut, we stopped it, babe. Listen, it ends with us. Period.” – Tyler (39:53)

• On Grieving an Absent Parent:

  “When you fantasize, then you have to burn your own dream down. That makes sense…that’s sad for a little kid.” – Tyler (31:42-31:44)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:22–04:59: Opening conversation; night out, Detroit, struggles with changing plans.
• 06:12–12:17: Social anxiety, staying up late, accepting being “lame.”
• 16:09–18:29: Stories from “wild” youth, generational shifts.
• 20:34–29:53: Tyler’s memories and conversation about his absent father, addiction, and alternate father figures.
• 31:13–37:06: Emotional costs, “burning the dream,” effect on Tyler’s own parenting, pride in breaking generational cycles.
• 39:53–43:14: Deliberate decisions about family, relationship, and therapy to break cycles.
• 43:32–46:26: Raising empowered daughters in a patriarchal society.
• 47:07–50:08: Role of parents in raising compassionate, emotionally literate children (with a viral example from “Driven by Jamie”).
• 51:50–54:11: Listener confessions, family betrayals, and lighter anonymous secrets.
• 54:27–61:06: Advice to listeners afraid to parent after adoption, adoption trauma, importance of therapy and support.

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Tone and Style

• Informal, witty, warm, and direct—Cate & Ty blend self-deprecating humor with vulnerability and straightforward advice.
• Openness about mental vulnerability, healing, and generational trauma is matched by moments of levity and relatable parenting struggles.
• The sense of partnership and mutual admiration between Tyler and Catelynn anchors the entire episode:

  “We’re just raw-dogging this, babe.” – Tyler (36:51)

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating adulthood, confronting family wounds, or interested in generational healing and parenting with intention. Cate and Ty’s reflections offer comfort, wisdom, and inspiration—with a dash of wild nostalgia and a big helping of hope for the next generation.

Transcript

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[A]

Welcome back, guys.

[B]

Welcome.

[A]

It's hump day. Means we're in the middle of the week. Almost done. Hallelujah.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

Yeah, we actually, we. We got to go out with some friends last night, which we don't really get to do.

[B]

Rare.

[A]

Yeah, because I mean, we've come downtown a couple times just. And it's just. We just hang out with just me and you. But last night we actually got to get together with like our. A couple of our friends and my cousin Jordan. And it was really. It was fun.

[B]

It was fun. Barcade was great.

[A]

Yeah, we went to the Barcade.

[B]

Moots is always good.

[A]

Yeah, we went to the Moots Pizzeria downtown Detroit. If you haven't tried it. Oh, dude, the New York. I was telling Tyler's cousin yesterday. I was like, we'll go to Moods. It's like a pizzeria in like pasta place. It's like an Italian place. And I'm like, it's like a New York style pizza. And he's like. And he's like, okay, New York pizza. And I'm like, no, dude, I'm telling you, like.

[B]

And he's right though. Not a lot of people get New York pizza. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I don't know, dude. So Moots has got it.

[A]

And then yesterday when we were eating, he was like, okay, yeah, dude. He looked at me, he's like 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. I'm like, dude, I. Boots is good as hell.

[B]

So good.

[A]

That's the thing. Like, downtown Detroit has so many good restaurants and like, things to do. I love coming down here.

[B]

Detroit gets a bad rap. It's like, hey, yeah, come on man, you gotta know where to go, where not to go.

[A]

That's like with any big city.

[B]

It's cool, man.

[A]

That's any big city. But no, I mean, we love coming downtown. But I'll tell you what, we.

[B]

Dude, are old. Why? Okay, guys, I don't know if it's just like, what's going on as you

[A]

get older, Ray, I'm like, is it

[B]

your 30s or you know, the rare times that we ever get to go out? Why, why, why is drinking feel like a chore? Yeah, why does it feel like I'm down and out for days? Why do I feel like I wake up in the morning every time and I regret it? Yeah, well, not that I regret the time had. I just regret. Why. Why did I have to take that many? Why have to drink that many drinks? What the is going on?

[A]

Like, well, and the fact too of like being maybe. And maybe it's because we like did things when we were younger and like, so now we're older, we're just like, eh. We don't really care to do it. I don't know, guys.

[B]

I don't know if it's. Why do. When someone's like, hey, it's funny because we had an original plan to come down here and you know, hang out with like certain people, whatever. And then like, I don't like when plans get altered.

[A]

Right?

[B]

We had a plan. How many people?

[A]

4. This is what we're doing going here.

[B]

And then after that, we'll be going after that.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like I'm not a good. I need to know.

[A]

You gotta have a plan.

[B]

Then they're like, well, maybe we'll add. Add more people and then maybe we'll go to a second place. I mean. No, no, no. We said four people one place.

[A]

Yeah. Eating and then going to another place. And that's it.

[B]

Four people. Yeah, that's it. So when people start going, oh, we're going to like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then, then immediately I'm like, cancel, cancel, cancel. I don't want to do it no more. I want to go home. I'm going to get in my robe or whatever. And I just want to. I don't want to do it now. Now I want to just come home and. And be. Yeah, I don't want to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It.

[A]

Well, and it's funny because, like, when my friend. My friend texted me and she was like, oh, well, what if so. And so come to you? And I was like, I guess, like, I don't care, you know? I was like, but I just hate people. Like, you know. And she was like, you and me both. And I'm like, we're both, bro. Like, what? We're.

[B]

But it's funny how it's like, I'm all excited. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool. The plan, the plan. The plan starts shifting. I'm like, cancel. Cancel it. All done. Done, Done. Like, whoa. Chill out.

[A]

Now. I'm just gonna sit in the hotel room. Watch me.

[B]

Yeah. I'm gonna sit in the hotel room, order food here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not get dressed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not do. Watch Netflix and watch stuff. Because now I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm like, I don't want to do this. It's weird though. It's like in my head I'm like, tyler, dude, chill out. Things change.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Plans are allowed to evolve.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For some reason, it started short circuiting my brain.

[A]

I know Tyler's all stressed out because my friend Brittany was like, well, maybe we'll go. Like, Detroit's got this cigar bar and they have like really good drinks and stuff. And Ty's like, well, now I have to bring something nice because if we end up at a cigar bar, like, you know, that's more of like, kind of like dressier, you know? And I so like. And I didn't pack. I didn't pack anything really dressy. It was like cute but casual, whatever. And so I was like, we ain't going to the cigar bar. Cigar bar. I was like, we'll definitely hit up the barcade, cuz that's fun. Like you get to play these games. Yeah. And it's like, dress cold. No. You can be casual and stuff too and have a good time, but that's

[B]

what starts circuiting my cigar bar.

[A]

So then he was stressing out and he's like, I'm switching my whole outfit. He's like, and I'm just going to look 10 out of 10. So that way, no matter where we go, I'm straight. Straight.

[B]

I can't do. Dude, I can't handle. It's like changing the plan. I. I don't know, just.

[A]

Or not knowing for sure what we're doing.

[B]

Yeah, Especially like, oh, we'll figure it out afterwards. No, no, you can't figure it out afterwards. We're going to eat and then where are we going? I'll figure out. No, no, we will not figure it out. We need to figure out now, right

[A]

before we have time.

[B]

We need to figure out now and then in my head I'm like, why am I. Why am I. Why do I need this? It's like I can't handle the. I don't want the spot in 80.

[A]

Or like the unknowing.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I don't want it. I want the plan to stick to the plan.

[A]

Yeah, but sometimes it feels good to like fly off the seat if you're paying.

[B]

No, Never feels good for me. No, it doesn't. I mean, I. I can vibe and do it.

[A]

See, I'm such a flower head.

[B]

I'm like, this is.

[A]

I'm such a.

[B]

And then, you know what's crazy is that once it happens and then something happens where it's like, see, this is why. This is why.

[A]

This is like. That's why I didn't want to do that.

[B]

I don't want to do it because now look at it now. Now we're in this weird position. You're sitting out here in the cold. We have nowhere to go. You didn't plan it out. We switched the plans. Now we're freezing. Google things. What the fuck?

[A]

Yeah, last night was cold too. I was like, I'm not. No. And there was a lot of things going on in the city. Yesterday they had a Halsey concert, Pistons game. The auto show is going on. And it was funny because when we left the hotel to like go get dinner, there's just girls, dude, walking around everywhere. Like, no coats on.

[B]

It's 11 degrees wind, col. Yeah, wind is flying.

[A]

They have a lot of them didn't have coats on. They were wearing like the lace, like, you know, like stockings and. Because, I mean, it's Halsey, you know, so it was just like. I was like, these girls are crazy

[B]

that they're making to look like that. Yeah, Nuts.

[A]

Especially with no coat. I'm like, I would at least had a coat. But the craziest thing, this could make us sound really old is we stayed up until like five in the morning, I think.

[B]

And what the. Who though?

[A]

Oh, today I'm so tired. I'm like, I don't want to do nothing.

[B]

Why? This is what I'm saying. I wake up, I have. Oh, I'm so having A good time. Until the morning comes around. I'm like, what? And I wake up and I'm just like this. Like, I'm like a gremlin. And I'm like, why last night? And I keep going back in time. Why? Like, I could have did everything we did without drinking nothing and staying up till 5am and staying up till 5am What. What are we doing here?

[A]

Because it was about when Brandon and Britt left our ties cousin and my. And our friend. It was probably about like 4:30. Four or 4:30? Yeah. And then it took me forever to fall asleep and I was freezing. Oh, so cold. But I'm like, I haven't stayed up.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Till five in the morning. And God damn, last time I was probably, I don't even know, 16, 17. Probably not 16 or like 20s.

[B]

I mean, give me a break.

[A]

Till 5 in the morning.

[B]

5 in the morning.

[A]

It feels like decades. It feels like decades ago.

[B]

Whose idea was this?

[A]

But it's funny, I'm like, so is this. Can other people relate? Like, is this just like, you get into your 30s, like mid-30s, and you're just like, you're old now.

[B]

Now every time anyone's like, oh. And even thinking about staying up past one is just like. That sounds stupid, right?

[A]

It's like way past my bedtime.

[B]

I don't want to stay up past.

[A]

We were waiting for the Uber last night to pick us up to take us to dinner. And it was funny because it was freezing outside. I'm like, you guys are nuts. Like, I'm going to stay in lobby. I'm standing in the lobby. It's like 7:45. I'm yawning already. Yeah. And there's an, like an. An older gentleman and his wife. And he looks at me, he's like, don't be doing that already. He's like, you're young, you know, like, and you're. You're yawning already. And I said, sir. I was like, sir. I have three kids at home and it is way past my bedtime.

[B]

They're feral.

[A]

And once I said that, he was like, oh, I understand. I was like, yeah, I'm tired. It's. It's already past my bedtime and it's only talking through. Yeah, it's only 8 o'. Clock.

[B]

We're gonna do this. We're gonna do this.

[A]

It was fun, though, because, I mean,

[B]

but God damn it, five in the morning.

[A]

I know. Yeah. No.

[B]

God, so unnecessary.

[A]

Well, and it's nice because, like, you know, Tyler and I, you know, we Have a very, like, it's a very small group of friends, and it's friends that we have known, you know, since childhood, middle school, and like, my cousin. So I mean. You know what I mean? And. And it's nice to every once in a while get together with them because, you know, we do live like an hour and a half from the mall because we live in the middle of nowhere and they live, like, in the cities. So it was nice just to catch up with everybody and get to see everybody and just kind of not have to have any cares. Yeah. For a while.

[B]

That's advantage of it.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I'm like, you feel accomplished, but what is the cost of accomplishment?

[A]

I wasn't puking, so it was a win.

[B]

Five in the morning. I never. I don't want to do this ever again.

[A]

No, not five in the morning. Yeah. No. I'm like, never again. And then I wake up today and I'm like, I'm tired. And we ate lunch, and I was like, now I'm even more tired. We're gonna go see a movie tonight. And I'm like, hopefully I don't fall asleep.

[B]

You better not fall asleep.

[A]

Well, your cousin Brandon said. He was like, it's super good. He's like, it's intense. And I was like, great.

[B]

Falling asleep.

[A]

I'm like, the other Avatar made me sob like a baby in the movie theater. And you have you and your niece laughing at me, so hopefully this one isn't crazy.

[B]

I mean, I don't know. I heard it was kind of intense, so.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Damn. See what happens, you know? I don't know. All I know is I feel really old and lame.

[B]

Because we are old.

[A]

Because I'm tired.

[B]

We are lame.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is what happens when you get old. You become lame. That's what happens. Are we accept. Are we gonna accept that we're lame? I think we're just accepting. Let's accept it.

[A]

Oh, that we're just lame.

[B]

Yeah. I'm done. I'm done. Like I said, I'm done trying to, like, hey, five in the morning. That sounds stupid. Changing plans dumb. Not changing plans dumb.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It's like, can we say, like, you know, you go out, have a good time, when you're back in your bed by, like, 10. That's great. You know, that's amazing.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I know that sounds like a great

[B]

time anymore, but how can they hang? They drink more. I don't know. Whatever. They.

[A]

They don't have as many kids as us either.

[B]

At the ages that we have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're kind of like. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And we. I don't know. And maybe it's because I have them on such as. We have them on such like a schedule that we're just so used to this schedule, you know, I don't know. But I like. I like being in my bed by like 9pm watching my trash tv.

[B]

The last wedding we went to. Listen the moment. The moment.

[A]

Yeah. Eating after the dances. Their little daddy daughter dances and stuff. Yeah.

[B]

It just sinks in my brain.

[A]

And we. Irish goodbye.

[B]

I'm out. I don't. I am done.

[A]

Yep. I gave you my card. You know, with your little, you know, the little money and. You know what I mean? Yeah. After all the special dances and stuff, it's like I'm out.

[B]

That's how you know it. That's how you know we're just.

[A]

God, we. We are. We are. Irish goodbyes. But I love it. Horrible. It's horrible.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why?

[A]

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[B]

you think it's rude?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it respectful? To be like, all right, guys, bye. Thank you so much for inviting us.

[B]

I don't know. I don't think so. No, no.

[A]

Just all of a sudden, everybody's like, hey, we're getting d. Go, well, if

[B]

you use common sense, I'm gone.

[A]

They probably know by now I reach it.

[B]

I mean, I'm not. You're lucky to even get a. See ya. Door closes. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm out. And it's. And it's funny because once it hits me, I can't. I cannot get the fall out of my head. I can't. Like, you know, sometimes, like, oh, I'm kind of tired. All right, you know, what up. Give me another shot. Or you try to, like, pep yourself through it. No, no. Once it's in my brain, I'm like, I'm looking for any opportunity to exit. And it's so funny, planning it out, avoiding people that want to talk. Long time.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no.

[B]

No turning. I'm avoiding. Whoa. You know what I mean? Or see someone go. I'm like, no. And I'm. I'm out. I'm planning the exit.

[A]

And it's so funny because me and you, like, we drink, what, once a year? Maybe twice a year. Like, it's not time I tire bed. Snooze. Snooze fest, Please.

[B]

I think you're right because we just did it so much when we were younger. We weren't even allowed to.

[A]

That's what I mean.

[B]

So then you get older. Like, this is cool, first off, because

[A]

I've seen some on Facebook. It was like, you're, you know, you're only in your 30s. Like, I know. Why don't you go out? Or you don't go out and do anything anymore. And it was like, a shame. The kids from Shameless. And I was like. Because I was steady doing it at 14 years old. I'm over it, you know?

[B]

You know, it's not like we.

[A]

God, we were bad kids.

[B]

I know. We were talking about last night.

[A]

Yeah, we were.

[B]

I know.

[A]

They were good times, though. Like, times that I wish I could go and relive every now and then.

[B]

We were wild and feral and free.

[A]

But it was so fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, it's weird because these, like, these newer generations, they don't do those things. They don't like, hey, mom, I'm going to Samantha's. Even though you're really going to a field, like, we would. An oil rig field, by the way, and just party with hundreds of people.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

Like, all different. You know, it was like high schoolers, middle schoolers, like all together.

[B]

I, I, it had to do with the fact that we didn't have like the phones we have like, it was kind of like, I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Technology was like, it was like, like a paint the T3. Yeah. It was a teeth. It was a very quick. There's. You're not writing novels.

[A]

No.

[B]

You're not expressing your love on the text message. You're like, you know, call me later, whatever it is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Calling past seven when it's three minutes, you know?

[A]

Yeah, true.

[B]

So it's like we were just like. It wasn't. Yeah. Nowadays they're just. And even the parties that they, they have and what are they like? Like, this is a party. It's weird.

[A]

What do they do?

[B]

They sit there on their phones and they're like. And then randomly. Yeah. And then they go back to this dude house. A musical again. It's weird. It's weird. It's weird.

[A]

House parties in the 2000s, you had to be there to even relate. Like, they were top tier.

[B]

We would go on abandoned houses and have DJs.

[A]

Dude. Yes. I'll never get that. One time in Amanda's house, we were all in the basement.

[B]

Remember the, the mod house that wasn't built yet, wasn't finished being built. We found that mop. Remember the basement? It was like cinder block. Do you remember this? And it was like a house that

[A]

they were like there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You had. Maybe you weren't there. I don't, I think maybe you weren't there.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

But there was a, there was like a double wide modular house being built and they just like stopped building it. So there was windows, there was doors, there was bathrooms. Like, it was like, but it was just like, it was like subfloor in. Not finished, anything like that. Imagine if you guys got busted and we literally. Dude, it was awesome.

[A]

I just.

[B]

They put a DJ in the basement and it's weird. Cinder block poles and cinder block. Unfinished basement.

[A]

No, because I just remember being at like Amanda's house.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Yeah, Danielle's house.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Danielle's house always had the craziest parties. And you think about like in like the ones Haley's a couple times. But you think about like some of these house parties that we went to at people's houses where the were their parents.

[B]

No, I don't know. No one asked questions.

[A]

And I'll never forget the one time it was at Amanda's. Amanda's house. And we Were all in the basement, like, party. I mean, dude, it was like a scene out of a movie.

[B]

I feel like, Rager.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, it was so fun. And then I remember all of us coming upstairs and everything in our house was flipped upside down. Remember somebody, like. I guess we're like, what? The.

[B]

The whole house? The chairs, the tables, the. The couches, the chairs.

[A]

I mean, down to the littlest detail. Like, upside down.

[B]

The pictures on the wall are upside down.

[A]

Yes. It was funny. I just remember that. And then I remember getting this feeling like, we need to leave. Sure. Me and Ty left, like, what? 20 minutes later, the cop showed up. No, it was crazy, but, like, we out of there. Where were these people's parents? Like, Danielle's house. Dude, there was like.

[B]

Well, what happened was her mom ended up dying and the dad ended up moving, and it was like.

[A]

The kids.

[B]

No, he had the older sister. The older sister that was there. And then he just kind of, like, would stop in once a week and give him money. It was weird. It was. It was weird.

[A]

It was crazy.

[B]

It was weird. It was different. It was like. It was. Yeah.

[A]

So, see, we did all that. Now it's just like, I'm too. I'm too old for it now. I mean, just.

[B]

I wish I was cooler.

[A]

I mean. Yeah, if you consider it cool.

[B]

I'm not. I can't sit up to five anymore. No more.

[A]

No even, like, two.

[B]

I know it sounds sucky.

[A]

Whatever. It is what it is, you know,

[B]

I'm not a positive for it.

[A]

Did it too much back in the day. That's just. That's all that it is. People did send me some anonymous, like, secrets, but I wanted. I want to save that for the end. I mean, I don't know, though. I have a few of them, and I feel like it could lead into different conversations, these episodes. I know, but then I also wanted to. I also. I wanted to kind of talk to you about, like. I mean, it's kind of intense, but, like.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

I have just, like, I don't know, questions about your dad. Okay.

[B]

Okay, go.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

What? What?

[A]

I don't know. It's like. Like I was just thinking the other day, I'm like, I wonder what. Because your dad wasn't really involved in your life, so what is your, like, first memory that you can remember of your dad?

[B]

First, like, core memory?

[A]

Yeah. Or just the first memory you have of your dad. And how old do you think you were?

[B]

I want to say I think I was, like, six. Yeah. I want to say I was, like, six. That I remember. I have a really weird, like, really quick memory of him stopping at our trailer and getting out of his truck. And then he, like, rubbed my head. I was. I must have been really little because it's very fast. Like, I just remember, hey, it was so good, right? Rub my head. But then. But then that was it. And then I remember. Yeah, probably when I was like, six. I think it was the first when he got out and he picked me up.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, me and Amber. He picked me up. And then we went to his girlfriend's house. But it was like. I remember thinking, my head, like, you've been out for a minute. You already got a girl. I don't know. It's weird. Like, going to your girlfriend's house. It's just fucking weird. I was like, what's. What the fuck?

[A]

And did you know this girl?

[B]

And I remember thinking my head, like, why don't you have your own house? You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I don't know. It's just weird.

[A]

And you didn't know this girl?

[B]

No, I know, I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He introduced me. Here's my girlfriend. Hey, dad. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. Girl, girlfriend.

[A]

Nice to meet you, Dad.

[B]

I knew in my mind it wasn't the first time we ever met, but it was the first time that I, like, remember it. Remember? Yeah.

[A]

Because do you ever remember, like, being young, Like, I don't know, like, being younger and asking your mom questions about your dad?

[B]

Yeah, she just would say he had a problem. Okay, he's a problem. Okay, got it.

[A]

Because your sister obviously has more younger memories with your daddy. You do?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Lots more. Yeah. Than me.

[A]

Huh. Because.

[B]

But by the time I was born, he was already diving deep into his addiction. When she was born, he wasn't an addict yet. My mom was like, you know, it was normal.

[A]

He just probably, like, started getting into

[B]

it, their party a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She wasn't like. But he was. She was. Said that he wasn't, like, into any of that stuff by the time I came along. I should never been born. Pretty much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Definitely not. So when I came along, it was like, he was already.

[A]

Well, in the crazy. Well, and the crazy part, too is,

[B]

like, your mom, I think, wanted to have an abortion. Because she was like.

[A]

Well, like your mom says, like, they were broken up.

[B]

Oh, yeah, they were. Yes.

[A]

And then his.

[B]

His brother died.

[A]

Right. And then, so after the funeral, he, like, knocked on your mom's door and she, like, felt bad for Him.

[B]

I love him so much.

[A]

And felt bad, obviously, because his brother died.

[B]

I'm like, what a weird pity.

[A]

That's gonna say pity sex. Yeah.

[B]

There I am.

[A]

Yeah. And then your mom had what? She had a couple appointments, I think.

[B]

Yeah. And she's. Yeah.

[A]

Something in her.

[B]

Something in her. Something in her. But she. But she. Remember her saying that, like, at that point, I. I was already experiencing with Amber what was going on. Amber was four.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Three years old by that point. So she said. I knew it was only gonna get worse because he started out being a really good dad. By the time Amber was three, it was not. You know what I mean? So she was like, another one with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dating. I don't want to be with them.

[A]

She's struggling to raise her one.

[B]

She realizes that she's by herself with Amber. So she was like. I mean. Yeah. And something about. She didn't get the abortion.

[A]

So was your dad. Was he. Was he there when you were born?

[B]

No, he wasn't there late. Like, he. Like, my mom already had me, and. Yeah.

[A]

So he wasn't in jail or anything, but he just wasn't.

[B]

Nobody's one. Yeah, he wasn't in jail, but he wasn't at the hospital when I was.

[A]

How the. Do you miss that?

[B]

I don't know. I have no idea. He was there in. Amber was born.

[A]

Yes. I've seen pictures.

[B]

He's, like, normal back then, so, you know, halfway normal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By the time I came along, it

[A]

was like he was just heavy in the addiction by that point.

[B]

Wasn't supposed to be here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is like. You know what I mean? They weren't together.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, I mean. Yeah, but I do.

[A]

So they were never together. Even for a little bit of a

[B]

period of time after I was born, they tried. You know what I mean? But, yeah, he was gone, I think before I was even a couple months old because of. My mom started dating her boyfriend Rick, who I remember from the age of. Whenever I could even remember, that was the only.

[A]

Really, really, like, really loved him. Yeah.

[B]

Really. And I knew he wasn't my real dad.

[A]

Yeah. But I just didn't have things with you, obviously.

[B]

Yeah, he, like, he. He. He was there, remember? So he came in the picture, and I was like, seven months old.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And my mom said that when her. My dad tried after I was born, it wasn't really a try. It was more or less like, what are we doing? So it took a couple months. You figure out, like, okay, we're not together. This isn't you know what I mean?

[A]

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[B]

We've planned for the plot twists, so

[A]

support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.

[B]

So she said that she wasn't. It wasn't really like they were dating. It was like, what are we doing with this parenting thing? Yeah, we have another one. And then Rick came along and. Yeah, that's all I remember from that until the age of, what, five?

[A]

So she was with him for a long time.

[B]

Long time. I mean, he, like, loved me. He had one daughter and so, yeah, he, you know, he always wanted a son. And so, I mean, I. Yeah, my mom said that he just really took me right under his wing and everything. So as a kid, he was really goofy, like, throw me like, you know what I mean?

[A]

Right? Like, play with you and stuff.

[B]

I guess at that point, it was like, I knew it was my real dad, but I also didn't. But my. My real dad was so, like, a far distance from my memory, from. I was like, I don't really care.

[A]

But can you remember, like, being that young and, like, really, like, wondering about your dad?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I mean, or, like, fantasizing about him?

[B]

Fantasizing for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because then we get pictures. I still got pictures. You know, he would, like, write letters to Amber. He'd write letters from prison, and he always look. Looking all huge, and I'm like, well, it's my dad. He's, you know, Damn. Holy jeez. Big and strong, but I never felt like a. I never felt as big as a yearn for him that Amber did.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I felt like, yeah, that's my dad. And then I'd be like, Rick. You know what I mean? Because Rick was just there.

[A]

And that's what you remembered.

[B]

That's what I remember. From all.

[A]

You must have been devastated when your mom and him broke up.

[B]

I didn't understand what's going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had no clue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really abusive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yep. He got really abusive. And then. Yeah, that was. That was then. That my mom was like, I can't do this no more.

[A]

Which rightfully so.

[B]

My little kid had. I'm like, what the. Where's.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

What the hell?

[A]

Because you didn't know. You didn't know until you were older.

[B]

She ended up breaking up with Rick, and then. And then my dad ended up getting out of prison pretty recently after that, because I remember. I remember him getting out when I was, like, 6, and this was like, probably like. Yeah. And then she. Her and Rick were done by. By the age of five. So as a baby, up until five, I'm thinking Rick is like. I was like, oh, I didn't even care that they were married. I'm like, this is. This is my life. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then. Yeah, my dad got out pretty recently

[A]

after that, so he was in prison from, like, what you can remember up until, like. Up until like, five or six.

[B]

Go to prison. I want to say I went to prison by the time I was two.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so. But I don't remember any of that. My mom said he would come, he would visit. Like, you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, you're too little at that point.

[B]

Yeah, I don't remember any of that. So I didn't have any, like, attachment to him.

[A]

And so then when you were six and he got out, how long. Do you remember how long he was out for.

[B]

Holy. Six years old.

[A]

Because. Was it not very long?

[B]

No, it wasn't long at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to say maybe. Yeah. Four years old. Okay. Four or five. She. Maybe. Maybe she worked out the work around four, five, six. Yeah. Seven, eight. He got out again when I was eight.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I think he went to prison the first time for, like, two years. The second time he went to prison when I was 8, he was in for four years. 8, 9, 11. Yeah, right. 12. Yeah. So.

[A]

And then obviously he went back again because I. When me. You were dating.

[B]

So think about it. So he got out. He got out. Or he went back to prison when I was like, 8, and then 8, 9, 7. 12. Yeah, and then 12. I met you. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, around 13. And then.

[B]

Yeah, he got out like a year after meeting you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll never forget that. It was like.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

I think it was the first or second time I was ever at your house.

[B]

And I was like, this is so.

[A]

And you're like, my dad's got out. He's coming here. And I remember being. So I walked out of the living room, I'm like, oh, I was so scared.

[B]

Well, because I'll say, hey, by the way. Yeah.

[A]

So scared. And I walk out in the living room, and he looks at me. Butch does. He looks at me, he goes, who's this broad? And I remember being like, oh, my

[B]

God, don't call her abroad. Jesus Christ. Right? And he. Dude, he had his leather vest on.

[A]

And then. Because, I mean, even just like, me and you being together, he was like, in and out of prison all the time. I think, obviously this is the longest time that he's been out of jail, right? In your whole life?

[B]

My whole life, yeah.

[A]

And it's.

[B]

And it's. I've seen him more. Isn't that weird? Yeah, he's not the longest this time he's out. He's been out the longest, actually. Off parole. Never thought a day in my life, but I'd be off. Roll off parole, not in prison for the longest time ever in my life. And I saw more, you know what I mean, when he was in and out. Isn't that weird?

[A]

But, like, I mean, I guess just like, I'm wondering from, like, a boy's perspective, you know, how do you think that shapes you as, like, an individual and as, like, a man, like, not having a dad around.

[B]

We just learn on your own, you know? I mean. Yeah, on your own. I don't know.

[A]

I mean, but Even just like the emotional effects, like, you know what I mean? Like for a boy.

[B]

But I think. Okay, I'm gonna go back to what you said about fantasizing. Because what happened was when you fantasize, then you have to burn your own dream down. That makes sense.

[A]

Which. That's sad for a littleity.

[B]

I'm a little kid. He's big, he's muscular. He look like he's funny. Oh, like, you know, as a BO boy, like, oh, this is. He's awesome. My dad's gonna kick your ass. You know what I mean? Like that kind of like whatever. And then you. That, that. That fantasy slowly gets chipped, and so you have to make it.

[A]

And that was his doing. Nobody else being younger.

[B]

I mean, like, oh, it's kind of

[A]

not what I pictured or imagined.

[B]

Yeah, he's strong, but he's weak. Like, you know what I mean? All these things. And so you have to, like, allow the fantasy to burn. And so I think that's when I was like, all right, fuck this guy. You know?

[A]

Then you get. Because you went through a stage of being angry.

[B]

Yeah, well, when I met you on the. Because when he went back to prison when I was 8 and I watched him get tackled, I was like, this is crazy. And my mom was, you know, she picked me up and she was. I was traumatized.

[A]

And she's probably pissed the off hitting the cop.

[B]

Oh, I remember being in, like, I remember being driving home, being like. And just screaming at my mom, like, these cops, these people.

[A]

You don't understand either.

[B]

I don't even know he was out for. God damn it. I Probably not even. Not even a full year.

[A]

So that's sad, you know? Did you. What you just said, like, I just got him back.

[B]

I just got him 8 years old.

[A]

Sad.

[B]

So I'm thinking about him. All right. I'm eight years old. Oh, cool. So when you're eight and you're young and you're like, oh, this is my new life. I'm gonna go my dad's every weekend. Oh, my God. Yeah. Cool. So then to be. And then right when I started getting comfortable with that kind of like seeing them, whatever. And also, boom. You're gonna come tackle and take them.

[A]

Yeah. Which I think is up that they did that in front of his kids.

[B]

Well, there. I mean, honey, he was. He was. I mean, they.

[A]

Was he on the run or something?

[B]

Yeah, he was on the run. Okay. About bounty hunters. My very first memory as a child was bounty hunters looking for him.

[A]

Yeah, you've told me. That story before.

[B]

I mean, I woke up in a water. That's why I wake up in a panic maybe because I remember being in my little toddler bed and little flashlights coming through the window. You know how like trailers had those thin like metal windows? You know, it was just. Yeah.

[A]

Especially back then.

[B]

And of course I'm like giddy. I'm like, what the.

[A]

How old do you think you were?

[B]

Dude?

[A]

You're in a toddler bed. Three, Four? Yeah, like four.

[B]

But that's like. What's your earliest memory? Bounty hunters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And because I was just such a traumatized. I thought we were getting robbed. I thought.

[A]

Because were they yelling and outside too.

[B]

I'm like, what the. And there's pounding on the window. It was wild. Wild. And my mom was livid.

[A]

Oh, I bet. Because there's kids in this house.

[B]

Yeah. She was like, I have children. And like. And they just bounty hards. They don't give a look rightly so. Because they're trying to find. I mean, he bailed. He went out on bail. I don't know what happened.

[A]

He was running. Yeah.

[B]

And so. And I remember like our trailer had like a step up to the kitchen. And I remember walking out my room and like there's flashlights coming around. They're randomly screaming. And then I remember getting to the window where I could kind of stop a little higher. And the window was above the sink. And that's what I could see him like. And they look scary because they're dressed all black.

[A]

Yeah. And then flashlights.

[B]

All I'm seeing is flashlights. That's the first time I saw figure. So he's like. And then. And I'm like lying by the light. And like he was. And he was like in a dark dude. And think about it. Like, dude, I was especially being a

[A]

toddler, literally a little kid.

[B]

I'm like, we're dead. We're dead. Cuz. What? You know, I don't know. All I know is that was the scariest ever.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you think? How do you think, like not having a dad in your life has shaped you into like who you are today is like a dad not having one.

[B]

Probably in every way possible, I would think. You know, I don't have one, so I gotta figure this all out. I don't. I mean, I pretty much. I'm not doing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gonna be that guy. That's shitty. You know, Like, I don't.

[A]

Because I mean there's been many times like. And people don't know, but like there's been many times where I've got emotional. I've told you, like, you are more of a dead than he ever could have ever been or even ever wanted to be. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, I hope so.

[B]

The bar is low as hell.

[A]

Well, I'm just saying, like, even I feel like. No, but I just feel like for coming from like a man now that was a little boy and never had the experience of like, this is what a dad does. This is how a dad acts. This is what, how a dad treats his children or his wife or whatever. Like, you didn't have any of those examples and you have done an amazing job of doing all those things.

[B]

Well, you didn't. How did you become mom? How do you know how to be a wife?

[A]

I mean, I didn't know how to be a wife.

[B]

So this is, this is, this is life. This is what we do.

[A]

I know, but I'm just saying, like, I think it's very impressive and I think you should hold on to some like, pride in that where it's like fudge. Yeah. Like, I didn't have a dad. My dad was a piece of shit, unfortunately. But like, you are an amazing dad. You're an amazing husband. You always. And of course it's all girls, which is crazy, but like, isn't that wild? But. And I love it because it's like, you know, they are gonna look for somebody, you know, to treat them like how they see you treat me and how you treat them and stuff. And like, yeah, you know, you never had. You just did completely different of your dad. And I think it's amazing to see.

[B]

Thank you. Where's raw dogging this?

[A]

I mean, we are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I. I mean, because unfortunately there's been lots of people in my whole, in my whole family, like, not just like parents or whatever, but there's been lots of people that I've looked at and I've been like, I ain't doing that.

[B]

No. Hell no.

[A]

I'm doing opposite than that.

[B]

I don't want to do that. That looks.

[A]

But when you say like about like being a wife and stuff, I guess the only people that I can think of in my life that like inspired me to be like, you know, like in a healthy relationship, in a long term relationship or was my grandma and grandpa. That's why I figured, you know, like, I looked at them and I still obviously, like, I adore them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

You saw how grandpa treated grandma.

[A]

Oh yeah. And then I've also seen my grandma. Soon she get pissed off and she. I'll never forget the one time she like flicked him off behind his back

[B]

and you were like.

[A]

I was like, grandma, Grandma. Years later, she apologized. She's like, I never should have done that. I was like, I thought it just humanized you. Like, you know, but yeah, I looked up to my grandparents lot and you know, still do in many, many ways of like.

[B]

Yeah, but you also come from a matriarchal line of just. You do. Grandma Lee was Grandma Lee. Mimi is Mimi. Your mom is. You know what I'm saying? So for you to be. What the. You're completely. Hello.

[A]

Thankfully, we've all just kind of gotten a little better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In certain ways.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Over all the generations, you know, or whatever. But I'm I'm hoping for me, at least. It's like, I cut that.

[B]

We cut. We stopped it, babe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Listen. It ends with us, period. It's not. I will not continue. I will not allow this to continue. I didn't want to have, you know, different parents for my kids, like half siblings. I didn't. I didn't want any. I didn't want it.

[A]

Just different.

[B]

I wanted. Yeah. And I. And it's funny, because that's why I think me and you were so committed early on in our young life, because we knew what we wanted out of this life. We knew it. So I think that's how people. People laughed at us for getting therapy at 17 years old.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? They're like, I can't. What the fuck? You guys are. You know, you're doomed.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, okay. Getting personal therapy at 17. My mom was like, what are you doing? I'm like, listen. It just. It's almost like our souls KN. Knew before our minds.

[A]

Did that mean. I think so.

[B]

Our soul. I know we're gonna be together. We got a lot of healing to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is gonna last and work right. And I feel like we took the time to do that and. And prioritize it over, like, rushing to get married. Rushing to get. You know, I mean, we didn't. We were engaged for almost nine years.

[A]

Long time.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's like we. We knew I didn't need.

[A]

And I was fine with that.

[B]

I was fine with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The rings are right. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like we. And when people laughed at us about that being so young, and now I see those same people struggling in their own relationships, like, what the.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, I mean, you can say what you want, but, hey, like, I knew for a fact that we wanted different. And we're going to create different. Yeah. Fall in your lap. Right? To create it. You do it yourself. So.

[A]

And that's what I think, you know? And I do think that, you know, girls and boys, young girls and boys, like, when they see how their parents treat one another or boyfriends or husbands, whatever. Like, I feel like that's, you know, I. I guess I feel like parents. You teach your children how it is to be loved or what it looks like to be loved by somebody in a sense, you know? Yeah. Like, how to be loved by somebody.

[B]

It's important that you teach that. I. You don't. No one can love me the way I need to be loved unless I teach them. And it's Important.

[A]

I'm. I'm blessed that our girls see us like, we're goofy together. We're funny, we're cuddly, lovey. You know, we've never called each other out of our names in front of them or I mean, ever, period. But even in front of them.

[B]

Have you ever seen us yell at each other?

[A]

No. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just certain things where I'm like, oh, like, you know, I really do. I have faith that my daughters will pick somebody. Like, you ever call one of my daughters A or stupid or something? They're gonna be like, I ain't never seen my daddy call my mama A, like what? And leave.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, and they're gonna see my dad always open that door right there's just

[A]

little small for my mom and me.

[B]

Yeah. For. And that's why I feel like, for me specifically, like, I knew it was really important because we do have all girls. And it would be naive for me to pretend that we live in a equality society where we were men and women are equal. They're not equal. It's bullshit. That is in a very patriarchal, sick. Whatever. And so I felt. I feel a deeper sense of duty as a father, for one, but a father to all girls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That. It's like, I need. You guys need to know that there are men that are not like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That are not like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like there. There are men out there. And I think hopefully you'd be on

[A]

the streets with me protesting that. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[B]

Right. And.

[A]

And there's a lot of men that are. That do.

[B]

And so. And so don't settle because you think you need to fall into this social hierarchy. It's a. It's a false hierarchy. It's not real. And I, it's, it's. It's a. It's a bigger pressure I feel because it's like I. Eventually our girls will be in relationships with people and it's like I. They have to know that they are deserving of all the same things. Autonomy, power, just all of it.

[A]

Respect. Everything.

[B]

All of it. All of it. And so I think there's a bigger.

[A]

In my opinion, I'm like, if not more than somebody with a dick between their legs, but that's how I teach that.

[B]

Like, I feel like, yeah, there's a bigger sense of duty for girl dads in this society, for sure. And I think it's important for them to see strength, you know, strength in both sides that men can Be they have masculine strength and they have feminine strength. You, you. There's a masculine. Yeah, because I. Feminine. You have to balance it.

[A]

Because I love seeing like, when you say something like that too, like going back to like boys or, you know, people, you know, women that are raising boys or whatever. Like, even dads. Like, I've seen lots of like, people will comment on my stuff when I share things about how I'm raising my daughter. And I love to see it. I feel like our generation of parents and younger, they're like, absolutely, like, and I'm raising my son to know that your daughter isn't the only one supposed to be in that kitchen or that you will respect these women. And you know, and I'm like an amen. I'm raising my daughters stand up for themselves, but also respect the men that are respectful to them and caring to them.

[B]

Like, you're right. Because now that I think about it. Yeah. So even the dads to boys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Super.

[A]

Oh, so important. Please.

[B]

You have to understand that raising your boys to learn and understand that the most harmonious relationship you can have is with someone who balances masculine, feminine, every single right.

[A]

And feel their feelings and women have masculine, feminine energy.

[B]

You have got to be able to create this fluid balance and know when to increase, decrease, when to use it in the right way. And unfortunately we live in a society still today where it is used in a not good way.

[A]

Right. And I think, and I think there are obviously like, you know, there is a lot of parents out there that I've seen mostly like the millennial generation. I've noticed like when I have conversations on, you know, like tick Tock and things like that where they are, they're like, absolutely not. My, my son is being raised to show his feelings and his emotions and talk about it. And that's super fudgeing important. So hopefully that just leads to like, I feel like, I feel like, you know, our kids generation, I feel like they're going to come in this world and they're going to fuck some shit up for the best way, you know what I mean? In all of life. Like, I feel like, like those younger generation of kids, because they're being raised, majority of them are being raised with like different and better, in my opinion, like values and morals and ideas and stuff. Like, I really do think that those are, they're going to change a lot of.

[B]

I hope so. I want them to come in here and flip the tables.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The fact that. And I want them to know that it is not totally cool and awesome for a woman to be a CEO and have a husband, stay at home and cook and clean, take care of kids, whatever. It is totally legit. It doesn't mean any. Doesn't mean anything other than it's equal. And I feel like.

[A]

And being supportive of who you love.

[B]

And I also feel like. Like there's a whoever if everyone's listening. Driven by Jamie. Driven by Jamie is a woman who is. She's a. An amazing mother, from my opinion. In my opinion, from what I see. And she literally will show her two boys.

[A]

Oh, you show me one of her videos.

[B]

Yeah. During my. Jamie, she shows the two boys kind of like, you know, either political stuff or social stuff or like, you know, activists or whatever, just to kind of get their perspective.

[A]

And where did you find her? On Instagram. Was she on Instagram?

[B]

It was Facebook.

[A]

I can't remember.

[B]

But she. Yeah, she, like, she shows and then she records her showing her boys. And she. And you can tell that she's not, like, directing them. She's just.

[A]

Yeah, they just have a conversation. Yeah.

[B]

What do you think he means by saying that? And she'll play like an Andrew Tate video, them saying, like, women deserve, you know, whatever the. That idiot says. And all these red pill idiot dudes out there. God, I can't stand it. But anyway, she'll show a video and she'll pause and say, what do you think he means by that? And then she lets the boys kind of, like, dissect it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's interesting when you. When you see children who are fluid and they're not yet adapted to the social hierarchy kind of bullshit filter, kind

[A]

of what they come up with and what they think is saying, listen, you

[B]

want to know how to be compassionate? Ask children.

[A]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[B]

Children can teach you how to be compassionate without any. Because they are not. They're not hardened by these weird social filters we've been forced to be in and categorize. So it's like they're. They're more fluid. So like, you. She asked the boys and the boys. That's kind of mean, you know, and it's just, like, so simple. It's like, get. Dude, I think grown men can learn more from these two boys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By this mom kind of instigating this conversation. And I think it's important that she's not doing it because she's just having conversations, literally teaching her boys. This is how to think. Not what to think, how to think, how to process. You know what I mean? Without any of the. And it's like, you want to learn how to be more empathetic and compassion compassionate towards other people. Ask kids. Kids are the most. They're so, like, they're.

[A]

And they'll tell you how to this.

[B]

And they're. It's almost like they. We have more like, almost. We have more like useless wisdom. We have more like, like, like basic wisdom. Like, oh, financial wisdom. And this is what you do with time management and whatever. They have more spiritual wisdom.

[A]

Children are fluid and like emotional, like, emotional wisdom.

[B]

They'll literally look at someone and just be like, oh, that's mean. That's not nice. Or this is. It's, it's crazy. And it's like, it's so simple when you ask kids. And I think it's so great that she's doing it in a way of like, this is how you can raise healthy, masculine boys who also know how to balance their feminine side, which is emotions and nurture and care. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing.

[A]

That video, when you showed it to me, I was like, that was really

[B]

posted it and I shared it and I said on my Facebook, I, I shared it and I said, I. For. I have a. As a father of all daughters, I pray that my daughters would end up with a boy.

[A]

I mean, a boy. Absolutely.

[B]

You know, because it's just so.

[A]

And that's what I mean about the gen. You know what I mean? I think, you know, I think there's a lot of parents out there that are doing it differently for the better.

[B]

And I love to say your parents keep it going.

[A]

Yeah. And the younger ones sent us, you

[B]

know, I'm telling you, I can't wait for the generation to get. They're gonna flip tables.

[A]

I hope so. They're gonna sit down, dude, and I'm here for it. I can't wait to be like 70. Be like, yeah. You know what I mean? So you're running out of closet space. The good news, you don't need to stop shopping. You just need to start selling with the RealReal. The RealReal is the world's largest, most trusted resource for athletic, dedicated luxury resale. Whether it's that mini bag that can't even fit your phone or those boots you never fully broke in, the RealReal handles everything from photography and copywriting to shipping and pricing. So you can just sit back, get paid and make room for things that actually feel like you. And with 10,000 plus new arrivals every single day from top designers like Prada, Celine, Louis Vuitton, And Louisville for up to 90% off retail. You're bound to find something perfectly on brand to fill that extra closet space with. Plus, this may only you can get an extra $200 to shop when you sell for the first time, make room for what feels like you go to therealreal.com to start selling and get your extra $200 to keep [e-mail] that's therealreal.com terms apply. We have time where I can do a couple of our anonymous secrets. I love it when people give us secrets. Let's see. I love. I love these ones because I had an evil stepmom and I hated her guts my whole life. So I love this one. I think it's great. She's like. When my dad got remarried, I scrubbed the toilet with my stepmom's toothbrush. Yeah. Why didn't I ever think that?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, like I'm gonna make sure like you know it first. Oh, and then you are savage as diabolical. No, because I did. I hadn't even stopped mom. I hated that.

[B]

No, she's pretty much a narcissist.

[A]

So what would I mean, could you imagine like finding out that your toothbrush. Yes. In the toilet.

[B]

I mean, hey, don't be a piece of True. And you won't have your toothbrush.

[A]

True.

[B]

Most likely.

[A]

So another one I got. Oh, is this. This one was crazy. My ex husband. So their exes now was sending my mother explicit love letters for years. Even after we divorced. Dude. And I've seen some things like that. Like you ever heard the story.

[B]

My ex husband sent my mom explicit

[A]

love letters for years.

[B]

Listen. Love letters.

[A]

So probably talking about how he wants to do dirty things to her.

[B]

What? What?

[A]

Even after they were divorced.

[B]

I'm gonna pause and say what the is up with mom?

[A]

Is mom responding to youg daughter that

[B]

your creepy ass ex husband.

[A]

Maybe she had to or unless. Unless she found the letters or something.

[B]

I don't know about mom because should be. Never been more than one letter. Letters is plural in that statement.

[A]

Yes. For years.

[B]

More than one letter. No. No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Only one letter and the mom goes, you're crazy. Hey, daughter. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Because she said even after they were divorced, he was still sending her mom explicit.

[B]

What the mom doing? How do you have multiple letters, bro?

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

You just mailing someone to.

[A]

Excuse me.

[B]

Tell this guy to what the. That, bro. All right.

[A]

And I've heard of as. Yeah, I've heard of other stories like that too. Where it's like, you know, like, the sisters end up, like, sleeping with the other sister's husbands. Like, you ever hear those stories? No. Yeah. Or just like. Or, yeah. Or like, guys, like, doing their wife's moms and don't be a hoe. Isn't that. Could you. I would beat.

[B]

What the. What?

[A]

I would beat my mom's ass. Sorry, mom. But I would. If I ever found out. I couldn't imagine, like, people that find themselves in those situations. Like, I would literally.

[B]

I don't know why. There's more than one letter. There should only ever been one letter. And that should have ended. It should have. The whole family should have blown up.

[A]

I thought this was a good one, that we should answer and kind of just give some advice. I know this is our anonymous secrets one, but I wanted. Yeah, I wanted to save this one because I was like, she. I feel like she needs some advice.

[B]

Not to say that we're going to give the best advice, but sure.

[A]

So it says, I'm scared to be a mom again after having to place my ch. My children up for adoption five years ago.

[B]

Children.

[A]

She might have meant child, though, too. And so when I saw that, I was like, you know, I don't. I feel like it is a scary thing. It can also be a very, like, exciting thing too. But I think my biggest words of advice would be to. I mean, obviously, just because you place a child for adoption or you relinquish your rights or whatever, doesn't mean that you're never allowed to have children again or be a parent again, you know, or whatever the case is. But I think if you're scared, I think it's understandable. But I think that you need to really. I mean, I would involve myself heavily in therapy and kind of try to process.

[B]

Yeah. I was going to say, I think the. The. The one thing that would probably need to be done is you have to, like, like, grieve.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You gotta grieve and you gotta grieve and give yourself grace and just, like, go and.

[A]

Unfortunately, I feel like with adoption, you grieve for a lifetime. Randomly different.

[B]

But I think maybe you should. Maybe you need to get the good assets and tool in your tool belt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To grieve in a healthy way before jumping in. And that's probably why it's scary, because it's like, oh, my God, I don't know how this is gonna react. Because, listen, I think anyone who's placed a child, like, they know, like, it's. It's. And you have your Own children that you're parenting, that you're not linguistic afterwards. It's a huge potential PTSD trigger thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because your body holds onto that trauma. Especially women. I don't know a lot of birth dads that. Whatever. But, like, women, they carry their bodies. I mean, like, you know, the cells of that infant is forever in your body. And so I really feel like if you don't, like, process that loss, that it'll. It's. It's. I know. I know why it's scary. And it'll be scary even if you do process a loss. But, yeah, give yourself, like, time to do it. Because I think a lot of times society wants specifically birth mother to just kind of just. That's it. Just.

[A]

Right. Forget about it. As if you knew that. Forget about it.

[B]

And they expect you just like, well, get over it. Get over it. Be done. Move on with your life.

[A]

That never happens, by the way.

[B]

Guys, are you fucking kidding me? Okay, any. And I'm not comparing, like, the death of a child to one that's living, but the body doesn't know the difference. The grieving process is still the same. The loss is the loss. So tell any parent who lost a child. I'm not through adoption, through death, whatever, to get the fuck over it. Get over it.

[A]

Yeah. I couldn't imagine looking at anybody in the face saying and saying that.

[B]

So there should be no difference between you telling a birth mother, we'll get over it. You chose it. Get over it and move on. Your life. Life. And then you go, and. And a woman who lost a child to death, permanently, whatever, is like, it's.

[A]

But then you're telling them to get the. Over it.

[B]

It's the same thing.

[A]

Because.

[B]

Because, yeah. Is still the loss.

[A]

But I think, Yeah, I think setting yourself just with a support system to talk about what are. Why are. What are your fears? And to know that, like, it's normal to have those fears. I mean. It is.

[B]

Yeah. Because I think going back in time, I wish we would have known more about the post traumatic. The post traumatic things that happen after you place, after you relinquish. And I feel like if we would have known all those things, I don't think you would have had half the issues you had at postpartum. I don't think.

[A]

No, I was gonna say.

[B]

Because what I'm saying.

[A]

And then, you know, when I went to, you know, when I put myself in some intensive therapy programs and stuff, it was there that I learned about how pregnancy is. It was a trigger for me. It Was very. Because obviously my first one was very.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It was traumatic. It was trauma.

[B]

Your body only knows.

[A]

And then relinquishing. It was trauma. And it was just loads of trauma.

[B]

And then surrounding a birth and pregnancy.

[A]

Right. Pregnancy, birth, all of it. And then you throw a couple miscarriages into that, you know, after Nova. But like it's just. Yeah. So it's like I had a lot of trauma just involving pregnancy.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Which I feel like if we would have known because after finding out later in life. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, it makes sense that

[B]

it's 30 adoptees are 30 times more likely to commit suicide. And it's like 29, 33, whatever. Very close. That birth mothers. Birth mothers and adoptees are. Are literally neck and neck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They are the likelihood of suicide ideation and all these things. And it's like, listen, if we would have known that.

[A]

Right. I could have worked on that.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think you would have had postpartum with Nova or maybe not as

[A]

severe or I would have known to have a support system.

[B]

You would have been navigating it. It in the right way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they don't tell anybody about the post traumatic issues that happen after for birth mothers. And then society saying, telling adoptees be grateful. Oh, you're minimizing their. You're minimizing and actually you're taking away their emotional autonomy to feel sad about something. You're robbing it of them. You're saying you can't be sad about that. No, no.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then they tell birth mothers the same thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get over it. You made the decision. Get over it. So you're not allowed to be sad about. So you have society telling you that you're not allowed to feel what you're feeling. What you're feeling is wrong. Which makes you disconnected with yourself. You're not aligned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're. You think you're going nuts.

[A]

Yeah. Literally.

[B]

Wow. The whole world's telling me I should probably get over this and here I am. Oh my God. Maybe I shouldn't.

[A]

So I mean, how many times I tell you, like I felt like I'm going crazy. I'm literally going nuts. So I think like I'm psycho.

[B]

Yeah. So I think people like robbing that you're stealing it from these people. And I. And it's weird that you're not. You don't go and steal this. You don't go and steal this from everyone else. You let veterans be sad about, you know, you let all these other people who have these traumatic Experiences. You're you a lot. Society allows them to have them. We have aa where they get in a huge circle and talk about how

[A]

whatever their struggles are. Yeah.

[B]

For you. But no birth mother gets in there. Well, get over it. You made a choice, doctor. He's like, we'd be grateful you're not dead. You could be a dumpster.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Got aborted.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What the. Why are we doing this?

[A]

Yeah. So I think. I think definitely, I think get a. Get a support system around you for sure. And to process where, you know, where the fears are coming from and trying to figure that out.

[B]

I personally think every single birth mother and every single adoptee in therapy, period. Your life, especially for the adoptee, started out as trauma birth mother. Your becoming a mother started out is a traumatic experience. And that requires therapy.

[A]

Yeah, it does.

[B]

Hello. Like, come on, let's. And I think we should be supportive. More supportive of that instead of shuffling it off and minimizing and tell them to get over it.

[A]

And there's. I mean, there needs lots of change on that whole. Yeah, but so I thought, like, that was important to talk about her comment or, you know, her message. So that is all we have for you guys. This.

[B]

I hope you kind of went all over the place, didn't we?

[A]

No, we talked about your dad and then, you know, about being parents. And then, you know, I wanted to do the anonymous questions and stuff too. So we. We are. Me and Ty are actually gonna go see a movie, so that'll be fun. Hopefully I don't fall asleep. That's what I get for staying up at five in the till. Five in the freaking morning last night. Stupid. But you guys, please make sure that you like and like and subscribe and rate our show, please. That helps us out a ton. And we love to get the feedback and see what you guys are thinking. And our Patreon page, don't forget that you guys can watch. You can watch these episodes a week after they. The audio airs on our Patreon page. And then also we have a Facebook fan page. It's Caitlin and Tyler's fan page on Facebook and we have a lot of new people in there and people that have also been there through this whole entire journey of ours. And it's a really fun and safe

[B]

community and we love to hear from you. I love when I see the comments, people. I've been following you. So I'm like, this is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I love it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

So you guys can check us out all there. And we love you guys and we're so thankful for your support and we'll be talking to you guys next week.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Goodbye. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.

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We're coming at you with everything we got.

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This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra.

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