ENCORE Unconditional Love, Empathy & Human Connection with David Shane

Summary

Cate & Ty Break It Down

ENCORE: Unconditional Love, Empathy & Human Connection with David Shane
PodcastOne – May 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartwarming and emotionally resonant episode, Catelynn and Tyler Baltierra, renowned for sharing their adoption story on MTV’s 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom, welcome content creator and adoptee David Shane. Together, they dive deep into the complexities of adoption, the lifelong impact on all parties involved, emotional intelligence in parenting, and the importance of empathy and self-acceptance. David recounts his unique closed adoption journey, personal reunions with his biological family, and offers wisdom for adoptive and biological parents alike. The conversation is frank, vulnerable, and filled with practical insights for families navigating adoption or anyone curious about human connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Full Circle Moment: Connecting Through Adoption Stories

• [01:13–03:09]

• Tyler first discovered David through his viral “Adoption Story Number One” video, recognizing a familiar pain and perspective in his content.
• David admits to being a “super fan” of Teen Mom due to its rare portrayal of birth parents and adoptee experiences.

“I was obsessed at 25... Probably because I was an adoptee and never saw anything to do with birth parents from their perspective.” — David Shane [02:29]

2. David’s Adoption Journey: Early Openness and Emotional Intelligence

• [03:31–05:52]

• David explains he was raised by a sex therapist and a guidance counselor who prioritized emotional intelligence and communication from his earliest years.
• He always knew he was adopted and never felt deprived or abandoned, thanks to his parents’ candor and love.

“Even if I didn’t come out of her womb — still mom, you know, still love.” — David Shane [05:19]

3. Unconditional Love & The Emotional Terrain of Adoption

• [06:20–10:30]

• David’s parents always encouraged him to search for his biological family if he felt the need, promising support without offense.
• They frequently discussed the “whys” and “what ifs” of adoption, reinforcing David’s autonomy and worth.
• Cate and Ty relate intensely, explaining birth parents live with a “deep-rooted pain” and that being told to “move on” is unrealistic.

“You wake up every day like your parent. That’s exactly what happens.” — Tyler Baltierra [08:23]
“It’s something I will carry with me there too, even if there is an afterlife.” — Catelynn [08:17]

4. Reunion: The Surprising Call and Hidden Family

• [11:12–13:32]

• In 2015, David’s biological mother unexpectedly called his parents’ home, revealing her identity after 32 years and sharing that David had a full biological sister he never knew about.
• The revelation was “emotionally heavy” for David, his adoptive parents, and his birth family.

“She goes, I’m your biological mother. I said, What?” — David Shane [12:36]

5. Nature vs. Nurture and Meeting His Sibling

• [18:43–23:00]

• After connecting with his biological sister, David notes the fascinating similarities and differences between them, shaped by both genetics and upbringing.
• He faced emotional struggles setting boundaries when his sister wanted a closer relationship than he was ready for.

“As a lifelong people pleaser... it got a little messy...she wants me to pursue this relationship. I’m not interested, all love, but uncomfortable.” — David Shane [23:39]

6. Processing Complex Emotions & The Adoptee Experience

• [25:15–27:01]

• Cate and Ty explain that reunion for adoptees commonly involves waves of excitement, emotional overwhelm, and the need to retreat and process.
• Tyler highlights the “unnecessary pressure” adoptees feel, especially with high hopes from biological siblings, and ongoing “pre-verbal trauma” research.

“I don’t think people who aren’t adopted will…They just never will. They never will.” — Tyler Baltierra [27:01]

7. Lifelong Impacts: Fear, Self-Worth, and Relationships

• [28:50–33:55]

• David describes a deep-seated drive since childhood to ensure others feel loved — a possible product of subconscious abandonment fears.
• Despite having loving adoptive parents, he still faced relational challenges and bouts of self-doubt.

“The very thing I was idealizing and dreaming of was present and I had all that. That makes me wonder: was that this subconscious, deep-rooted thing?” — David Shane [29:58]

8. Adoption Practices Then vs. Now

• [34:12–35:13]

• David’s closed adoption in 1983 reflected the norms of the era. Kate and Ty explain that today, 90% of adoptions are open, acknowledging increased awareness of adoptee needs.
• Open communication with children from the earliest age is now recognized as best practice.

“Now, most are open...because the therapists are all like, hey listen, this is what’s shown to be the most beneficial for the adoptee.” — Tyler Baltierra [35:13]

9. Discovery of Additional Siblings & Family Complexity

• [36:06–42:35]

• David shares how, later in life, his parents “adopted” another young woman in need, highlighting their compassion but also stirring up his own feelings of jealousy and needing to belong.
• He reflects on the ongoing balancing act between including and not hurt siblings from various branches of his family tree.

10. Adoption Reunion, Grief, and Moving Forward

• [44:48–49:56]

• David’s biological mother’s recent and sudden passing added new layers of grief and required him to set boundaries to protect his mental health.
• He advocates for taking time and space during and after reunions: “Sometimes we gotta protect ourselves.” [50:09]
• Tyler and Cate emphasize the importance of letting adoptees lead in reunions, being prepared for any reaction, and never invalidating feelings.

“Our duty is just to hold that space for her because you’re accepting whatever it is.” — David Shane [50:55]

11. Parenting Lessons: Advice for Adoptive and Birth Families

• [54:07–57:10, 69:00–71:01]

• David credits his adoptive parents’ focus on unconditional love, presence, and acceptance for his emotional resilience.
• He urges adoptive parents to always support their child’s need for answers, and birth parents to enter reunions open-hearted, prepared for any outcome, and always listening without defense.

“As an adoptive parent, if you want to provide love for a child...you need to do this. You need to go above and beyond.” — David Shane [56:58]
“It’s their terms. You almost have to ensure that you’re listening, respecting, accepting, and allowing them to move at their speed.” — David Shane [69:00]

12. Empathy, Social Media, and Challenging Stigma

• [71:01–74:39]

• David calls out the dangers of social media judgments, urging listeners to withhold judgment, recognizing everyone is doing the best they can.

“You may be a parent, you may be a child...but you don’t have the ability to understand who other people are just off a conversation and all this...I commend you for putting yourselves out there.” — David Shane [71:28]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tyler: “Finding purpose in the pain—the pain’s not going anywhere.” [10:35]
• Cate: “Being a birth mom, I feel like it’s a pain that even if we reconnect in the years, I think it’s still a pain that I will carry for the rest of my life.” [08:17]
• David Shane: “It’s okay. No matter what you’re feeling, what you do, it’s okay...sometimes we gotta protect ourselves.” [50:06]
• David Shane: “The greatest thing you could do as a parent is shower that child with unconditional support, love, and acceptance… I’m never gonna stop communicating to them that they’re loved.” [54:33]
• Cate: “On the other side of fear is discovery and joy and opportunity.” [64:41]
• David Shane: “We have to assume that these are worries and wonders of each kid. Reinforce it.” [60:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introductions & David’s origin story [01:13–03:31]
• Emotional intelligence in adoption [03:31–06:22]
• The pain and permanence of the birth-parent experience [07:17–10:30]
• The reunion: The call from his biological mother [11:12–13:32]
• Meeting his biological siblings & nature/nurture [18:43–23:39]
• Emotional complexity of reunions [25:15–27:01]
• Lifelong impacts & psychology of adoptees [28:50–33:55]
• Then vs. now: Closed vs. open adoption [34:12–35:13]
• Adding new family members, balancing relationships [36:06–42:35]
• The realities of adoption reunions, grief, and pulling back [44:48–50:06]
• Parenting lessons from David’s adoptive parents [54:07–57:10]
• Early openness about adoption for kids [57:10–62:45]
• Advice for adoptive and birth families about reunion [69:00–71:01]
• Challenging adoption stigma and public perceptions [71:01–74:39]

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Final Thoughts

This episode stands out for its candor and depth, shedding light on themes of unconditional love, empathy, and resilience within the adoption community. David Shane’s emotional intelligence and self-awareness provide unique insights into the adoptee experience, while Cate and Ty offer lived perspective as both birth parents and advocates. Their shared vulnerability encourages breaking stigmas and supporting self-discovery for all members of the adoption triad.

Follow David Shane: @DavidBShane on all major social platforms.

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[End of summary – all ads, intros, and outros omitted]

Transcript

[Kate]

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[Tyler]

Work your magic.

[David Shane]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[Ad Host 1]

Well, that's cool.

[David Shane]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Tyler]

So what's the problem?

[David Shane]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Tyler]

Maybe there's no catch.

[David Shane]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Tyler]

You need to relax.

[David Shane]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?

[Tyler]

I think it's laminate.

[David Shane]

Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.

[Tyler]

Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.

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[Ad Host 1]

Hey, everyone.

[David Shane]

Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Tyler]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent. Liberty. Liberty.

[David Shane]

Liberty.

[Tyler]

Liberty. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for coming back to another episode of Kate and Ty. Break it down. Today we have David Shane, which I'm so pumped about. We connected social media. I saw the first video I saw of yours was Adoption Story Number One. Because at first I saw. It's funny because I actually did see some of your content before that, but I didn't know who you were. And then I saw it and I'm like, man, that sounds familiar. The voice. And then I was like, oh, holy shit.

[David Shane]

Crazy. And then when you reached out, my mind was blown. I think I told you this initially that I was a quiet, I guess, like, super fan of Teen.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

On. On mtv. And I had followed you guys. I think it was pretty, like, religiously. Like I said, it was under the table. I couldn't tell any of my friends.

[Kate]

Right, right.

[David Shane]

But it was kind of like a full circle moment where it brought me back to those times. I'm like, this is crazy. In the present moment, I'm talking to Tyler.

[Tyler]

So how old are you?

[David Shane]

I'm 42 now.

[Tyler]

Okay. Okay. So we're about 10 years at difference. I'm 33.

[David Shane]

Okay. How. How old? How long ago was. Was Teen Mom?

[Kate]

16 years ago.

[David Shane]

16 years ago.

[Kate]

So 2009.

[David Shane]

So I was 20. Does that make me 25?

[Tyler]

So you're your mid-20s? Okay, yeah.

[David Shane]

Oh, God. So I was obsessed at 25.

[Tyler]

No, but honestly, I've heard a lot of. I mean, I think it comes down to just like, you know, I mean, teen mom is a whole different thing on its own, but we were the only, like, adoption story on there. So I've had a lot of people older than you, younger than you say, like, hey. I literally only watched it because I was an adoptee, and I never got to see any kind of, you know, anything to do with birth parents in their perspective. So, like, you're not. You're not the first.

[David Shane]

Maybe that's what. Why I gravitated and felt connected. It's hard to recall now, but it was probably because of that.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So a lot of people will say, like, you know, we hear stories and stuff, but a lot of adoptees would like, you know, I watched specifically, I would just fast forward everyone else because I just wanted to see what, you know, the birth parent journey was like. So not the first person that's. I've actually heard that from.

[Kate]

But so for people that don't know who you are, like, who are you? What are you known for and what kind of a little bit about your background.

[David Shane]

Yeah. So my name's Dave. I guess in terms of the Internet, how I'm known, if you will, is about three years ago, I started creating content all about humanity, mindfulness, love, kindness, human connection.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And so I took out my phone and started going around asking people to share three things they love about each other, themselves. In doing that, it's taken me on this journey, you know, capturing, you know, strangers in public all over. And then from there, it was probably like a year ago. I decided to share the story of. Of my experience being adopted, close adoption at birth. But I think a very unique one, if you will, being that I was raised by basically, meet the fuckers, a sex therapist and a guidance counselor.

[Kate]

No way.

[Tyler]

Yes.

[David Shane]

Wow. And so that's unique in itself, but what they really prioritized, I think from as early as even two, three years old, was emotional intelligence and communication and taking the time to explain things to me. I think even if I didn't have the ability at that age to process and fully understand, but they did it in the best way they knew how. And so I never had unanswered questions as a child or that feeling of neglect or abandonment, at least that I can recall because I had so much love.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Tyler]

So. So you knew you were adopted from the early. As early as you can remember.

[David Shane]

Correct. So, like, even I can. I have memories in middle school of, you know, classmates and friends who, I guess, came to know this. I don't know how, if it came up in discussion, parents, whatever. And they had lots of questions. Some, I'm sure teased me or, you know, you don't have real parents, you know, the cruel things kids could say. But I was almost immune to it because I didn't differentiate between the two. I had so much love. The fact that I didn't come out of her womb.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Still mom, you know, still love.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

So it was. Yeah. Fascinating.

[Tyler]

So it sounds. I mean, so coming from what you're saying, it sounds like you had a really good, positive adoption experience growing up.

[David Shane]

Incredible.

[Tyler]

Wow.

[David Shane]

I think it was as great as it could go. Just being that I had an upbringing full of love, unconditional, very nurturing. Parents always believed in me. I never felt like I didn't have anywhere to go or anyone to turn to. And I definitely struggled. I think a lot of people that are adopted, and I can't really speak for everyone, only my own experience.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

But I think what's really trying on the human mind, and it can come in, ebb and flow throughout life, different stages. I think things can trigger it is just reflecting on that and thinking about the whys and the hows and the what's. And so throughout life, my parents reinforced to me, hey, if you ever want to connect with your biological parents and find out who they are, we won't be offended. We'll encourage you to do that. We'll support you, and we'll help you find them.

[Kate]

That's so healthy.

[David Shane]

Oh, my gosh. But in my mind, understanding humanity even from an early age, and being raised to be very empathetic. I know my parents are professionals in the mental health field, and I trust that what they're saying is true. But just like they probably had underlying concerns of, if I were to connect with my biological parents, would that emotionally throw me? How would I respond and react in life? I worried about them, too. Would they feel neglected? Would they feel like, does he maybe not love us? What's sparking him now to want to connect with them? So I think throughout time, when I was younger, that was never a thought. The way I processed it was, I have so much love for my biological parents, despite not Knowing them because they gave me the greatest gift. They made the most selfless decision that I can't imagine mother and father would be faced with making. Having to give up the most beautiful thing you've created.

[Kate]

But I see you getting emotional.

[David Shane]

Yeah, I get very, yeah. Emotional person, but it's the reason I get emotional is just trying to put myself in a mother, father's shoes who has to make that decision. You guys have been there. People can't understand what that's like. I can't understand what that's like. But getting to connect with my biological parents, you know, in recent years, it was eye opening to hear from them how every day and every night for a period of over 20, 30 years, always on the forefront of their mind when they woke up or went to bed or throughout the day. How is he? Yeah, is he okay?

[Kate]

Always. I think it never stops. I think for birth parents, like, that's something that never goes away. And for me, like, I tell Ty, I said, like, you know, now that our adoption is closed, like, there's a part of me that being a birth mom, I feel like it's a pain and it's a deep rooted pain that even if we reconnect in the years, I think it's still just a pain that I will carry for the rest of my life. And I tell Ty all the time, I'm like, and even if there is an afterlife, I think it's something I will carry with me there too.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I think it's something that people like, assume, like, oh, well, you can, like, I think as birth parents we hear a lot. Let's move on, let it go, wait for them stop, you know, just let it go. And it's like, like, how do you. It's something you literally can't just let go. It's, it's, it's something that I think every biological parent deals with. You wake up every day like your parent. Like, that's exactly what happens. It feels, it's a, it's in the forefront of your mind constantly. And I think probably even more intense for your bio parents because it was closed and they had no, you know, the questions of, you know, how is he? What's he doing? Like, we, we were blessed enough to have some of those answers as she grew up, you know, until obviously it closed. But like, I couldn't imagine that that feeling of like asking those questions and not knowing, you know, like, that's intense

[David Shane]

the way I would compare that kind of concept. And this isn't to in any way minimize what that's like in your experience, or any parent that's had to make that selfless decision. But the way I kind of see it, it's one of those things that unless you're dealing with it, you can't understand. And it's not something that you can just instantly work through like a light switch and say, okay, I'm not going to worry about this. I'm going to disconnect emotionally and be fine. But the way I would kind of compare it is when we lose loved ones in life. Right. A lot of us as human beings, that reshapes the rest of our existence from that point forward. We lose parts of ourself every day. We can think about the times we had together, miss them, and we can grieve in perpetuity, but to the point where it's inhibiting our ability to function. I think it in. In for most of us, you have to find a way to give new meaning to it and let pieces of it go, but assume the best. That person who's not here with us anymore, we love them just like they loved us unconditionally. And all they would want is to see us smiling and happy and doing good for ourself, just like we had one for them.

[Kate]

Absolutely not.

[David Shane]

Not that that makes it any easier. Right, Right.

[Kate]

But it helps. It helps.

[Tyler]

I think, you know, finding the. Finding, almost finding the purpose in the pain, because the pain's not going anywhere. And especially of, you know, when you sever these biological DNA connections, it's, It's. It's something that just. You can't just let go. Right. And you know what healing is? It looks different for everybody. And I think healing can look like finding purpose in the pain. And I think that, you know, I'm assuming before you reached out or connected with your biological parents, I'm pretty sure that they tried to find the purpose and the pain or trying to find it, but. So how old were you, though, when you actually connected with them?

[David Shane]

So this is a crazy story. So, like I said, throughout my life, I'd always known I was adopted, that I have biological parents that are out there or, you know, I never thought, oh, they're not alive. I assume they're out there and doing well. Just assuming the best.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

So Fast forward to 2015. I'm living in West Palm Beach, Florida, and I'm living in a small little community. My parents have a townhouse on one side, and I'm renting an apartment on the other side. And I go over their house one day to Drop off groceries. I had never answered the landline phone at their house. So I walk in the door, my dad's in one recliner, my mom's in the other. She's reading like her Kindle. He's got the iPad, checking white socks scores. And the phone rings as I'm carrying in the groceries on the tv. I guess they had their caller ID set up. So I see on the caller ID what looks like an out of state area code number. He said, who's calling you? You want me to answer? Because now I'm in the kitchen. They said, oh, it's a telemarketer, let it be, we're fine. I said, no, you're not fine. They're not gonna harass my parents.

[Kate]

Right, right.

[David Shane]

You know, well, I'm here, I'm gonna stick it to them. So I answer the phone and I said, hello. And there's a woman on the other end of the phone. She goes, may I speak with David Shane please? That's weird. So I said, speaking. She goes, were you born in Hoffman estates, Illinois in 1983? I said, who the fuck is this?

[Kate]

Right?

[David Shane]

She goes, I'm your biological mother.

[Tyler]

Whoa.

[David Shane]

I said, what? And so my parents overhear this in the background, stop what they're doing. And I know they're on heightened alert now. This is probably their worst fear. Is there?

[Tyler]

Yeah, right, right.

[David Shane]

Not knowing is this gonna emotionally throw me what's gonna happen? So you know, I, I respond with listen, thank you for reaching out. It's not an opportune time to talk. This is my parents house. You're calling on their landline.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

Why don't you give me your contact info. I'm gonna go home. I'll call you because there is some questions I want to ask you about medical history, mental health, various things that I need to know.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And she says, certainly. I just want to let you know I'm not calling to intrude on your life. There's some information and things I need to share with you. She said, okay. So got off the phone, my parents first response was are you okay? So I reassured them, hey, I'm good. I am going to reach out and call. I want to hear about the history, but I can assure you I'm okay.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And if I'm not, I'll let you know.

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[Tyler]

Right, and you're so your parents have never spoken with your biological parents ever?

[David Shane]

No.

[Tyler]

How do they get the number? Like that's so.

[David Shane]

So what ended up happening was I called her when I got home and she basically revealed to me that her and my biological father. The circumstance of how this unfolded was they were younger, he was in the military, he had already had two daughters of his own with another woman and he was active duty. So I can't remember what was going on at that time, but he was getting shipped overseas and stuff. And so they had broken up. They were on and off. They break up, he ends up coming back into town. I don't know if they're living in Chicago or Maryland at the time, and they started talking, maybe had a one night fling, whatever. She ends up getting pregnant and at the time she was taking care, I think of an elderly parent, a father, mother, but all of the things going on in her life weren't ideal to give a child the life she'd want. You know, granted all the love's there, but she, I think at that moment in time said, hey, my responsibilities and attention has to be given to all these other things and don't know that I have the ability to give the love I would really want to give to this child. So my father at the time says, listen, I already have two Other daughters. This is your decision, your body, your choice. I'll stand behind you with whatever decision you make. So they made the difficult decision being that he was tied up in the military and they didn't have a sound home and everything intact at the time to give me up for adoption. So it was actually two years later that they ended up reconnecting, got back together. It might have been a little sooner that they got in a relationship, but they ended up having a daughter.

[Tyler]

Wow.

[David Shane]

And they've been married ever since. So the whole reason they reached out was to tell me, listen, you have a sister and she doesn't know about you. We've never told her that she's got a biological brother that we gave adoption.

[Tyler]

Full biological. Which is very rare for adoptees.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

To have.

[Kate]

But not. Not alone. Like you have a full biological. But you have two other sisters, too, through him. Through your dad. Right. Because you said he had two daughters.

[David Shane]

Technically. And I've never met them. Yeah. So I technically do.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And. But what she went on to explain is that all of their life, obviously something that you've grappled with on the forefront of their mind was worrying just, how is. How's he doing?

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

Okay. That's all they want to know as parents, that he's loved, he's good and he's okay.

[Kate]

Well, yeah, because with closed adoptions, like, we're just. Your birth parents are stuck with all the what ifs. We don't know where you're at, who you're with or anything.

[David Shane]

No. And I think as. As humans, and when you have that biological conn, there's this innate love and worry that you can't turn off. Right?

[Kate]

Yeah, absolutely.

[David Shane]

And. And so she said that even though they have a daughter and a family and a life, it was always on their minds, worrying and wondering. And I guess because of social media started playing detective, searching. They knew, I. I guess, like maybe the first name in my mother's maiden name.

[Kate]

Okay.

[David Shane]

They had certain information, so they went on Facebook and eventually found, I guess, my mom's page and was searching and saw a picture of a boy on it.

[Tyler]

Oh, wow.

[David Shane]

And she was able to say, that's my son. Yeah. You know, I see the resemblance. So from there, I got to learn about medical history. You know, I asked all sorts of questions. Do you have any struggles? This, that, and the other? Granted, I think there was a lot of uncomfortability on her end because it's the first time you're talking to yourself. Yeah. You want to put your best Foot forward.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yes.

[David Shane]

And all these things, but had. Yeah. Learned. I had a sister who's living in Pittsburgh. And then from there we. We connected. It was about a month later I flew her down.

[Kate]

Your birth mom?

[David Shane]

No, my sister.

[Kate]

Okay.

[David Shane]

Yeah. And it was fascinating because we learned how nature versus nurture impacts us all so differently. But there was a lot of similarities in terms of our thought processes and different things.

[Tyler]

Wow.

[David Shane]

How we think, where we're like, man, we're really similar. This is cool.

[Kate]

Right?

[David Shane]

But it was also very, very heavy because that first time she came down, FaceTimed her parents, and that's when I got to see him for the first time.

[Tyler]

Wow.

[David Shane]

And it was with her.

[Tyler]

Oh, wow.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Because, you know, part of this whole journey in connecting with them and learning of a biological sister, it's. It could be a lot emotionally and I can imagine.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

But as a lifelong people pleaser and someone that's just been conditioned, I think, to connect with people easily but really try to be mindful of others emotions. Yeah, it was hard, but I. I couldn't imagine what it's like to be in their shoes, you know, all these people's shoes. And so I wanted to afford them opportunity to get to see sister and brother together.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

You know, some closure. That's got to feel good, you know, as a mother and father. And, And I. I think it was it, you know, and then it was probably like a year and a half later I was up in Pittsburgh and I went with my sister to meet them for the first time.

[Kate]

Wow. And how did that go?

[David Shane]

It was very heavy emotionally. I wasn't prepared. I thought I was, but. But inevitably, the more you connect and just have conversation and spend that time, your brain wanders and you think and you wonder what were these people like, what my life had been and all this. And I think when it was all said and done, I know that it was something that they needed, getting to talk with them both individually, that it was a worry they had for their life, you know, their entire life. And what a blessing to see, you know, their biological son and daughter both healthy, connected, knowing about each other. And then I also tried to reinforce to them and communicate the best I could of how much love I have for them. And just that if there's ever a moment where you're feeling like guilty as a parent, just know that I've had the greatest life, one that I don't know that anyone else could have given

[Kate]

me, you know, And I bet for your birth mom and your birth dad, that has to heal a part of their soul. Knowing that you had such a great life with such great adoptive parents that loved and adored you and raised you to be empathetic and, you know, loving to the world like I could, that's gotta heal a part of them too.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

I think as parents, you're proud.

[Kate]

Yeah. Right, Right.

[Tyler]

When you, when you said, like, you know, you thought you're prepared, but you weren't like, what is that? What do you mean by that? Like, you thought like, all right, I'm good, I got this. And then it was just more intense than you expected, or so.

[David Shane]

You know, the interesting thing I think about life is until we really experience something firsthand, we can try to speculate and assume, prepare ourselves, what's this going to be like? But we have no idea. And I think that I had always assumed, based on my upbringing, my understanding of, like, psychology, myself, this whole situation that I've experienced, that, hey, if I meet my biological parents, I'm good. You know, like, I'm, I'm good. There's no confusion. Yeah. But the fascinating thing about that is once I. I met them and everything, it just starts to make you maybe take on a perspective and reflect on emotions that you didn't know were present.

[Kate]

I was gonna say, I feel like you can, you can walk into something like that feeling like you're very prepared, but then it just brings up so many emotions and so many different questions that it's got to be overwhelming. A little bit.

[Tyler]

Very.

[David Shane]

And I think for me, in this whole experience where it became much more kind of like complex for me was having a biological sibling. And I know there's a deep rooted love there and connection, but there's a lack of understanding. I don't think she has the ability to understand what it's like to be me who's adopted.

[Kate]

She won't.

[David Shane]

Can't.

[Tyler]

Yeah, she doesn't. Yeah.

[David Shane]

And. And some of us, and it's not necessarily a negative, don't even have the desire or, or even the ability, if someone presented it to us, to try to want to understand. Right, right.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

So I think from her shoes, this whole experience was, oh, my God, I have an older brother, a biological brother. Now is an opportunity for us all to be a family and connect. And I want you to meet my relatives, all out of love. And it's well intended, but I think that's where it became trying and difficult for the relationship as a whole.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Because that's where I encountered volatility emotionally.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Okay.

[David Shane]

And said, hey, I'M not prepared, nor do I want to take that on. Not out of spite or resentment.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

I have great parents, I love them. I have great family. I love you.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

But you got to respect these boundaries. I don't want to pursue those relationships and everything. And so, yeah, I think it got a little messy there with push and pull with our relationship as siblings, where she wants me to spend time with mom and dad, you know, become closer, pursue this relationship. And I'm saying not interested, all love, but uncomfortable doing that. I think that translated into you don't love them or, or almost.

[Tyler]

Yeah, right. Yeah. When in fact it had to been really hard because you're over here, like. No, I swear, I'm just like, that's. I'm not ready for that.

[David Shane]

That's something. You know, my sister Molly lives in Pittsburgh. It's something we haven't been able to sit down and talk about. And our relationship, I'm just very open.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Our relationship, I feel like, has been strained in many ways because there's unspoken words and communication that has yet to be had about some of these sensitive things where we both come from. Very different upbringing. And I don't have the ability to understand what it's like to be you.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

And the life you've lived in that relationship. Nor do you have for me.

[Ad Host 2]

No.

[David Shane]

But with that said, I would hope that at some point we could get to a place where beyond the inability to understand, we accept, we respect and we say, hey, I'm not capable of understanding, but I love you.

[Ad Host 1]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Or even getting to a place of where like, like you said, having a face to face conversation and just you laying out boundaries as the adoptee, like, hey, we can still communicate and have a relationship, but if you don't feel comfortable getting super involved with other people, like, that's fine too because like, we've learned through like just speaking to like adoption therapists and stuff like that. For adoptees, they say, like, it's like you go through reunion, you meet your birth family and stuff and it's exciting and it's an emo. It's very emotional. And then the adoptee needs to take a step back to process all these feelings and thoughts and emotions and. And then sometimes they come back and they learn a little bit more and then they step back to process it again. Like.

[Tyler]

And the more they learn, the kind of. The more they.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Make boundaries.

[Ad Host 1]

Yeah.

[Kate]

It's like an ebb and flow, you know, and it makes sense because, you know, even though you had this beautiful, amazing life it still has got to just be sad and overwhelming with certain aspects of just being adopted and meeting all these different people when also like

[Tyler]

you said earlier, like being a people pleaser and stuff, like, you know, which, which, which makes a lot of sense and I can relate to and it's actually super common. A lot of adoptees feel that way and we're still learning about like the pre. Verbal trauma that babies go through and stuff when they're maternal separation and all that kind of stuff. But I think you bring up a good point. As in, like, listen, like I. There's an, there's an unnecessary pressure almost in a way, especially when your biological siblings say, oh my gosh, my dream. And like you said, it all comes out of love. But at the same time, I'm the one that has to deal with all this like heavy stuff. I mean, to think about, even to even think about the life you could have had or would have had or, or all this stuff, it's got, it's so overwhelming that I don't think people who aren't adopted will. They just never will. They'll never get it.

[Kate]

They never will.

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[Tyler]

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[David Shane]

The thing that stood out to me as a young boy, I can remember as early as kindergarten when I would go to school, all I wanted was for every kid to be so happy and feel loved and ensure that they're loved. They're happy, they're happy because that's what I had at home. But I don't know if this was my brain's chemistry coming to this world where there was a deep rooted fear of abandonment or something that was just naturally present when I was met with other children or people that were sad, unhappy or in turn weren't kind and were rude. I want to dedicate all of my time to changing that about them and making them feel good. Even if that meant subjecting myself to bullying or whatever. And I can remember sleeping over at friends houses. Granted I had the most loving parents but anytime I was sleeping over at somebody else's houses, even if they didn't have a close knit family or whatever, in my mind I envied what they had. I said I wish I had this, this loving family and all this. And I reflect back on that and I say there was quite a disconnect there.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Because the very thing that I was idealizing and dreaming of was present and I had all that. And that makes me wonder was that this subconscious deep rooted thing.

[Tyler]

I think it is interesting that you mentioned that you said your mom's a therapist so I wonder, I'm curious on her, on her studies or if she's ever delved into that space of, of what adoptees and what the statistics are. I mean they're through the roof about a lot of these abandonment issues, the mental health stuff. I mean they're a minority group. They, they are represent 2% of the whole world's population and yet we're still learning about how pre verbal trauma affects the development of the brain and the baby. And I think it's interesting that you would have that perspective because you're saying I had a great life, why would I go spend the night at someone's house and almost like it's like it's one of those things about your body, keeps a score, like your body remember numbers.

[David Shane]

I'm able to interject kind of like logic and step back and say, okay, well, that doesn't make sense. That's not what was really transpiring. But what I've come to accept is as a human and as a baby, things can happen to us. And science has proven that where we can come into this world already impacted by our ancestors, a certain set of brain chemicals and trauma. And I think that's just it. You know, I had a fear of abandonment. And as I went through life, even though I was equipped with this great upbringing, all the tools and I think, oh, I'm a great communicator. I experience a lot of challenges in relationships, especially intimate ones, and even friendships where I could struggle to deal with disappointments or people doing things that maybe revealed to me that they're not so loving or they don't care about me. But it was my inability to have the right tools to be able to process things emotionally in a healthy manner, control my response, regulate my nervous system. And so I've always wondered, obviously it can be varying degrees for different people depending on the circumstance, but what percentage of people that are adopted struggle with these things beyond a lot what's happened in life.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Which is what we've learned kind of doing this work. And honestly, our whole goal was just to. Since adoptees only represent such a small percentage and they're the ones that are most affected by adoption in general, is the reason why we're trying to give a voice and just a place for adoptees to share their stories. Because I think it's important for the more we know, the better we can do.

[Kate]

Right.

[Tyler]

And I think if the more we know and recognize that adoptees share a very common, common struggles, we can do something to help that or, you know, struggle. Yeah. To kind of figure out a way to like, make this a little better experience. Because I think the whole point of it is, is that you did have a great adoption experience. And that is. Is, you know, it's great. And. But a lot of people didn't. And so if we can. Until every adoption kind of has a feeling. I think. Until every adoption is like yours.

[Kate]

Yeah. Where the adoption says, I had a house full of love and I was so loved and, you know, got work to do. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Until every adoption.

[David Shane]

What's really eye opening as humans adopted or not, something that universally we all struggle with is not feeling lovable or good enough. And in life, as time goes on it gets harder. We experience more loss, heartbreaks, these things that make us take on these self limiting beliefs or question our identity. And I think with, with people that are adopted, you know, from the few that I've connected with, with sharing the story on social media, I was a police officer at one point in life and I had the opportunity to deal with a lot of kids in foster care. It seems like many people, regardless of their age and the experience, there's a lot of struggles with self worth being enough and I think that's human. Yeah.

[Kate]

Just being human, you know. So question do you know. So when you were placed for adoption, was open adoption just not a thing or do you. Do you know if like your biological parents didn't want to have open or if your adoptive parents didn't want to have any contact with your birth family?

[David Shane]

That's a, that's a great question. I don't know definitively on hand what, what the circumstance was, but if I had to guess, I think it was probably out of respect to both sides. I, I don't know who typically has control over that. Is it the person get

[Ad Host 1]

usually.

[Kate]

Well the now newer days and age. Yes, it was now is like the bio family has the chance to make that decision.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

But none of it's law. The parents can.

[Kate]

Yeah, but there are, you know, even to this day there's some adoptive parents that want to adopt and they're like, nope, we want closed or we want open. So it just really, really depends because

[Ad Host 1]

what year were you born?

[David Shane]

83.

[Kate]

83.

[Tyler]

So I'm pretty sure a majority were closed back then.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And I think with new, with new data and new studies and new, you know, things that we're learning a lot of. I mean I think 90% of adoptions that happen today are open because the therapists are all like, hey listen, this is what's, this is what's shown to be the most beneficial for the adoptee.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So I think it's interesting. So were you. Do you know if you replaced through an agency or were you straight out of the hospital?

[David Shane]

Interesting. So it was like okay, day two. Yeah. I joke around when people have asked me this, this story. I said, oh, it was ebay. They did the buy it Now.

[Kate]

Right, right, right.

[David Shane]

Not the reserve. But no. Yeah, it was straight out of the hospital and I think it was. I would assume all of this was taken care of prior to the birth of the child me. But from what I understand it was the second day in the hospital is

[Kate]

when that your parents so.

[Tyler]

So you're so your parents. Were they, were they, were they on a list? Were they. Like how did, does any of that, do you know any of that story about how they came to actually adopt a child?

[David Shane]

You know what's really funny? I've never sat down with my parents and asked that story or that question.

[Tyler]

It's an interesting story. Cuz I'll for every adopt and I always. Yeah, they.

[David Shane]

So my parents, prior to adopting me, had a biological daughter of their own.

[Kate]

Okay.

[David Shane]

And she now, so I'm 42, I think she's 60 or 61. So it was like 18 year age gap.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

Oh, okay. Well. Okay, so. Wow. Okay. So your, your, your mom wasn't. It's not like she struggled with infertility. They had 18 years later they decided to do it all over again and they, so they chose not to do it biologically.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

That's interesting to me and I wonder why that is.

[David Shane]

And then when I was 25 years old, I was living in Gainesville, Florida, which was about four hours from West Palm beach, where I was from and where they live. And I was working as a police officer. And my father was in his final years of teaching. He taught for like 40, 50 years. And his last five years he was a guidance counselor, which was different from him just being a teacher. And I got a call one day and I learned that I have another sister. And I said, wait, what?

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

So my parents, in my father's final years of teaching, he was a guidance counselor. And one of his students, I guess he came to find out through the discussions, you know, and sitting down, going over things that she had no parental direction or guidance in her life. The relationship with the parents was severed at an early age. I'm not even sure if they were still living, if one was incarcerated or what it was. But she had had a brother who she was in high school with, who was a very talented athlete and fell victim to peer pressure and outside influences. And he ended up getting tried as adult and going to prison for bringing something to school he shouldn't. Joining a gang.

[Tyler]

Oh, wow.

[David Shane]

And so that destroyed his aspirations. But his sister, who is my dad's student, was still in school, getting ready to graduate, but didn't have the parental direction, love or guidance in place. I guess my father recognized she was very bright, intelligent, and her dream was to go on and kind of be like a guidance counselor too and help people.

[Kate]

Wow.

[David Shane]

And so I, I get think through that connection, learn more of the intimate details about her circumstance in life. And they must have built a relationship. And then so next thing you know, my parents are like, yeah, you got another sister.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[David Shane]

And so that was pretty wild too.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And that was a whole nother experience for me because I can remember experiencing resentment and jealousy at the time. Granted, I was in law enforcement and my mindset and who I was as a person was a lot less open and loving and because of, you know, just where I was at in life and my inability to probably deal with that at a young age. So I can remember being. Wait, what, what? You're. And she's living in. In my room. She's in a house.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

I mean, my response was disgusting now when I look at it now, But I think it was just jealous. Like, I'm not going to get all the love.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

And there's a new star in town.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

You know, wow. But yeah, now, you know, they helped her graduate, she got a scholarships, and now she's a social worker.

[Tyler]

Oh, wow.

[David Shane]

She lives in Virginia.

[Kate]

So how awesome is that?

[David Shane]

And brother ended up getting out of prison. Doing great.

[Kate]

Oh, good.

[David Shane]

Yeah. All's good.

[Tyler]

Wow. So, so, so, so you never. It's so interesting because most, most adoptees are very interested in their origin story, their birth story, their adoption story. And I almost. It's. It's kind of cool that like, you know, you like I haven't had that conversation with them. Yeah, I have no idea. Because I always think I find it interesting, especially with older adoptions. Like, it wasn't through an agency, was it through a family lawyer? Was it from a friend of a friend who said, hey, you know, and. But the fact that, you know, they could have children biologically, but chose for 18 years later, the second child, they weren't gonna do that. That's really like, I'm so curious. I wish your parents were here.

[David Shane]

I think if I had to guess now, and they probably have told me bits and pieces, so. Both my parents have dealt with Crohn's disease from an early age.

[Tyler]

Okay.

[David Shane]

My mom, it's been a lot more severe throughout her life. Like she still to this day, she has to go get infusion. She's at the hospital every day, if not every other day. And she's had to try all sorts of steroids, but she's had 40 something surgeries on a large intestine.

[Tyler]

Wow.

[David Shane]

And only has a few feet left now. So with her journey in Crohn's, it's a lot of scar tissue inflammation, heavy on the body. My guess is she probably wasn't a candidate For a typical pregnancy.

[Ad Host 1]

Right.

[David Shane]

The health risks.

[Kate]

No, that makes sense. Yeah.

[Tyler]

So 18 years apart though, between your. That means you guys weren't really raised together at all.

[David Shane]

No.

[Kate]

Wow.

[David Shane]

That is. Yeah. My memories and with my sister, my upbringing aren't till really later on in life actually going with my parents probably when she was like 18 or 19, before she went on dates with guys. There was a couple times and I don't think this is like a habitual thing, but there was a couple times where we kind of went as a family. Me, my mom and dad. We drove down to Miami where she was living. Yeah, it's kind of blurry, but we would go to her apartment, say hi, like wait around and then the guy would show up with like flowers.

[Kate]

Oh, funny.

[David Shane]

We're there real quick, say hello. Yeah, I don't know if it's my parents, like vetting them.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

But I can remember a couple of those.

[Tyler]

And are you close with her now?

[David Shane]

No, we're not. So I have a niece, she lives in Florida. It's all love. But I think just because we were never close like that we've lived our separate lives. We get together on holidays.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

Wish each other well, but not really, truth be told. Like I don't really know her and she probably really doesn't know.

[Kate]

Well, I was gonna say especially with being like 18 years of an age gap like when you were born, she's just getting into adulthood trying to figure out who she is, what she wants to do, living her life. I mean, I feel like that would be hard to kind of have a bond.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Did you ever now did she did what is her thoughts? Did she ever have any? Because I'm assuming when you like, hey, I, I, I have a biological sister full out there. Like did she have any thoughts about that?

[David Shane]

You know, that's a great question. We like I said, not super close. So we've never sat down and had like a real in depth conversation about that. I don't know if emotionally that impacted her in any way, shape or form as a result, but something that as a people pleaser, something that's always been on my mind in navigating these relationships is not wanting to make anyone feel less than or there's a favorite. So what do I really mean by that? Posting on social media.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

I've always been very careful about and this is might just be in my own head. Right. But about sharing posts or certain things, highlighting an achievement of one or a birthday, making it seem like I love them more. Granted, she may not be worried about that or perceiving it that way. But I've always tried to go out of my way to ensure that any of my sisters aren't feeling like they've one loves, one more or one less.

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did your did your parents ever meet your biological parents?

[David Shane]

No?

[Tyler]

Okay.

[David Shane]

All right. So, so never met them. But I've I've spoken to my my parents in depth about that meeting. We've had in depth discussions about it all because something I thought was really important was okay, I've my parents know that I connected with my biological parents and the sister and all this, but I didn't want them to be in the dark because I know they probably have a lot of unanswered questions and Worries not only about me, but who are they?

[Ad Host 1]

Right.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

And so I've brought them up to speed, kept them, you know, in tune with everything. It ebbs and flows, but there's times where I regret it.

[Tyler]

Regret what?

[David Shane]

Sharing all that with my parents.

[Tyler]

Oh, really?

[Kate]

Why is that?

[David Shane]

Part of my regrets at times is because, like, even though they've dedicated their life to the mental health field, if there's anyone that. That could be prepared for this, it's them. Right. Because they have all the expertise and understanding. We're still all humans.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

You know, and we could be sensitive and. Yeah, I think there's. There's times where maybe they didn't share it with me, but I think inevitably they may be question because they're human. Does. Does he love them more or what does he feel like? There's worries. Right.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

So.

[Tyler]

But have you seen those worries, like, externally? Like, have they expressed anything to you that made you feel that, like.

[David Shane]

Oh, I. I've noticed. I mean, granted, they're getting older in life now. They're in their 80s, and their. Their life, it's changed a lot. It's trying to stay alive and take care of a lot of health issues or each other's caretakers. So with that, it seems like cognitively we experience a lot of regression and change. It's inevitable. So their ability to process emotions and things is definitely affected. But there's been a few conversations that we've had in recent years where they've almost revealed to me that they're questioning whether or not they were good parents.

[Kate]

Wow.

[David Shane]

And they gave me a good life. And that's so upsetting to hear, but I'm like, what do you mean? You're the most loving parents. You were the greatest parents. I love you guys.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

And I don't know if that's just like a worry.

[Kate]

I think every parent worry. Yeah, I think every parent.

[David Shane]

And you're just sharing it. But. But in the back of my mind, I've wondered, did something that reinforced that. What was it, you know, this connection and sharing everything? Don't know.

[Tyler]

Because how long have you been. How long have you been like, you know, how long has it been since you had the reunion with them?

[David Shane]

Well, that was 2015 that I found out about my biological parents for the first time. I met them in person. It was probably two years ago.

[Tyler]

Oh, okay.

[David Shane]

Yeah. And then.

[Tyler]

So it's fairly recent. And this is recent.

[David Shane]

Yeah. So I met them. I've met them twice in person.

[Tyler]

Oh, okay.

[David Shane]

It was with the first visit and then it was for a birthday party. I think it was for. For my niece or my sister. Okay. And then actually it was like six months ago now. Biological mother randomly passed away. Oh. She. She fell, hit her head. Dad came home, had a heart attack.

[Kate]

Wow.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Brain damage. So, you know, I was very fortunate to get to meet him. But the. The third time was saying goodbye. Oh, the third.

[Tyler]

Oh, wow.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Just recently, it's me visiting her in the hospital, saying goodbye with my. My sister and father.

[Tyler]

Wow. Okay. Because I feel like that let alone is heavy, intense to deal with, but also as an adoptee who, like, just.

[Kate]

Yeah, that's got all this.

[Tyler]

I mean, that is super intense for you to be put in that position.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

I mean, especially with your sister who's Has a. Had a totally different, you know, connection with these people. I mean, that's, That's.

[David Shane]

It's put a lot of strain on the relationship with my. My biological sister. You know, the truth is, I started sharing this story on social media. My journey with the adoption experience. Experience. And, you know, in. In doing that, my. My. My hope for sharing that video was to make somebody out there feel less alone who's maybe had a similar experience or something different, which I can't relate to. But as I started to share that story, something I really thought would be important, would be able to get my. My sister's experience, what it was like for here finding out.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

To offer a perspective that I never even probably got to hear firsthand. But I elected to pull back and table sharing that because I realized not everyone's comfortable sharing emotions, and this can get real messy, you know, And I. I know that we all deal with loss and grief differently, and. And I truly believe that. What a blessing it was for my biological mother to get to know that I'm good, I'm healthy and happy. But the truth is, her life did end very short, much shorter than probably expected. And I think in times of loss like that, we all reflect differently.

[Kate]

Yeah, it brings up a lot of things, all sorts of different. Just junk and crap and feelings and emotions.

[David Shane]

And so I felt like after that whole experience in that loss, you know, and we all deal with loss differently, kind of had to, like, pull back.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And that's okay.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And that's okay.

[David Shane]

And that's a really important thing you just said. It's okay.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's okay.

[David Shane]

No matter what you're feeling, what you do, it's okay. And we don't always behave and do the things that somebody else expects, you know, and people can interpret things to be rude or insensitive, like, how could you not go to this? Or how could you not be there? But sometimes we got to protect ourselves.

[Kate]

You have to always.

[David Shane]

Right?

[Ad Host 1]

Always.

[Tyler]

Kind of why we always say, like. Like, as far as. If our biological daughter ever come to us, like our job as birth parents is to bow our heads in humbleness, hands behind her back, and let her either.

[Ad Host 1]

Whatever it is.

[Tyler]

Whatever it is, if it's, leave me alone. If it's, I hate you so much, you ruin my life. If it's, I love you so much, I miss you. This whatever it is. Like, our duty is just to hold

[David Shane]

that space for her because you're accepting whatever it is. I.

[Tyler]

And honestly, you know, I feel like our unique situation obviously be on tv. I couldn't imagine what it would be like as an adoptee to what, like, you know, our biological daughter is the only adoptee that I know of that is going to be able to witness the aftermath of 16 years of it. You know, not every adoptee gets to watch their birth parents grieve. And I feel like that is something that is. Could also be a blessing or it could be damaged.

[David Shane]

Because all that was televised, you're saying?

[Tyler]

Yeah. Ever since, you know, I mean, they

[Kate]

would follow us after we left a visit and us just being in shambles, they would follow us.

[David Shane]

If you don't mind me asking, do you know if she's seen.

[Kate]

I don't know if she has seen all of it for.

[Ad Host 1]

For a long time they kind of

[Kate]

sheltered her from the show, but now she is, you know, 16 years old, so she is seeing, I think, bits and pieces and stuff like that. But I don't really know as. I don't know how much she is seeing of it, but.

[Tyler]

But yeah, I know that for her, like, I couldn't imagine, you know, being an adoptee and, and watching your birth mother in the hospital holding you as a baby, saying goodbye, like, that's huge. And that's heavy.

[Kate]

And that might be something that she don't want. It might be too much for her, too heavy for her to watch.

[David Shane]

But what's really such a blessing is that that is out there.

[Kate]

Yep.

[David Shane]

And she'll get to make that decision because she's a young adult now. And as she grows into a, you know, the human that she's going to become, at any point, she. That. That that's available because some people don't have the ability.

[Kate]

Yeah, it's wild.

[David Shane]

And I think what a blessing to know that it was all out of love.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yes.

[Tyler]

You know, because I think even adoptees wonder, like, why. Why me? You know, why? Especially when you have adoptees telling you that, you know, they're the only one out of seven kids place for adoption. Why did you, you know, why did you parent to their children? And that's kind of a situation that me and her in is we stay together. It's very rare for your biological parents to get back together. I mean, it's, it's just, it's not, it's. It's not heard of.

[David Shane]

It's. So I think that experience separate from the child, the, the parents who are giving, Having to make that decision for whatever reason, to give a child up for adoption, that's going to put some serious emotional, like just lots of things on the relationship. I can't imagine. Oh, yeah.

[Tyler]

I mean, I think especially being 16 were kids.

[Kate]

Yeah. Literally.

[Tyler]

And especially, I think just coming from our backgrounds, you know, with just the unstable addiction and just everything that was really the callus and reason why we did it in the first place, it just creates a whole different type of like, pressure. Almost like we don't know. And honestly, just growing up in front of cameras, I mean, so, like, so I think for, you know, our biological daughter, she's going to be witnessing a lot of mistakes that we made. A lot of kids growing up on TV, 16 up. I mean, we literally, at this point, we've been on TV longer than. We've not been on TV in our whole life. Like, it's.

[David Shane]

How old were you guys when you started on TV? 16.

[Tyler]

And it's still happening. Our. Our finale just aired a couple weeks ago.

[Kate]

Yep.

[Tyler]

And so, like, you know, that's a whole different kind of, you know, experience that we're gonna have to eventually have where it's like, we made mistakes. And I, I was gonna ask you, like, what your. The parents who raised you, what was. What was. What did they get right being adopted parents? Like, what did they get right, in your opinion?

[Kate]

Like, if you could, like, if you could give advice to adoptive parents.

[David Shane]

I, I think adoptive.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

I think the greatest thing, beyond what's spoken by the child and what's communicated, the greatest thing you could do as a parent is shower that child with unconditional support, love and acceptance. Make it a priority. Because. Because I'm not a parent, but I feel like that relationship with a parent and child, you obviously want your child to feel open talking to you about anything and coming to you where you're, you're also friends, you Wear separate hats. But that's not always the case. Some kids aren't comfortable. Right. Like, we rather share things with our friends. Tell mom and dad. But it's. It's prioritizing that and saying, hey, I'm gonna do whatever I can as a parent to ensure that whether I feel like my child knows this or not, I'm never gonna stop communicating to them that they're loved. That if they ever have any questions, they ever want to meet these people, they ever want to know anything, that I'm in their corner, and I'm their biggest advocate to support them in doing

[Kate]

this, making them feel safe and heard and loved.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

Right.

[David Shane]

And that there will never be disappointment. That as a mother and father. Yeah. You'll never think less of them. It's just. Yeah. That unconditional reinforcement that they're enough, they're lovable, they're great. But. But I think it's like a step further. It's just. It's just the level of parenting. My parents, from an early age, you know, it's hard to be present as a parent. You got to figure out bills and all these things, and you're doing. And then by the time you come home, you're stressed out.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

And you don't want to deal and you don't want to play with the kid. You know, it's like, oh, God. But I think amidst all of the things you got to do, responsibility, struggles. My parents prioritized loving me, spending time with me, talking. You know, they were just those parents that you see go to all the extracurricular activities, still traveling, even though they're struggling with finances and all these other things. How do you do that? I don't know. Yeah, everyone's doing the best they can, but I think as an adoptive parent, you know, if you want to provide love for a child and you're taking the step to be a parent and signing up for this and give them life, you need to do this. You need to go above and beyond. So, hey, you're too tired with your job, coming home at night, you know, and you don't want to play with the kid, don't have the kid.

[Tyler]

Right. Yeah.

[David Shane]

No.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

But I think one that you mentioned that your parents did was that, like, if you ever wanted to start, and you knew this from an early age, if I ever wanted to find them, search for my biological family, they would support you in that.

[David Shane]

As early as. My mom told me this the other day because, like, I thought at seven years old was the time we had a sit down conversation on the bed. Like I remember being like between probably 7 and 10 because it's blurry. But it was like after school one day and they sat down with me on the bed and I got to see my, my little outfit when I was a baby, my sock, then my birth certificate and it was like a question and answer session. And I learned that there's a lot of conversations and questions I asked at earlier ages prior to that, but I can remember there was no fear and no worry in me asking these questions and like I understood. Oh, okay.

[Kate]

See, it's because they have always been open and honest with you and they communicated.

[Ad Host 1]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental Health Awareness month and I want to remind all the listeners that are listening today that if you're going through something, you don't have to go through it all alone.

[Kate]

I mean, life is a journey even for me.

[Ad Host 1]

Some days I feel good, some days I feel down, some days my anxiety is high and sometimes I can feel overwhelmed. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out by yourself. But the truth is that no one has all the answers and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen to, understand and support you can truly make all the difference. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, anxious or unsure, I mean, acknowledge that and just feel those feelings. But also know that it's more common than we think it is and none of us have to feel these emotions or try to navigate them all by ourselves. Better Helps therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial match working for you too, so you can focus on your therapy goals. You'll fill out a short questionnaire that helps identify your needs and preferences. And with their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading, match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. But if you're not happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time from one of their tailored recs. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. You do not have to be on this journey alone, find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up today and get 10 [e-mail] breakitdown that's better h e l p.com break it down

[David Shane]

When I was 3 years old, 2 or 3 years old, my mom told me this is just recently. She goes, do you know when you were two or three, we were walking at a mall together, and she's like. And I was holding her hand and there was a woman who was pregnant and she was showing like, her belly is really big. And you turned and looked at me and said, did I come out of.

[Tyler]

No way.

[David Shane]

Your stomach. Whose stomach did I come out of at? At 3?

[Ad Host 1]

See, that is because she probably talked

[Kate]

about you being adopted around you.

[David Shane]

So. But. But when I heard this and understanding human beings, I said, listen, just because a child doesn't have the ability to communicate and ask these questions, it's in there.

[Kate]

Yeah. They know.

[David Shane]

So we have to assume that these are worries and wonders of each kid. Reinforce it.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Two, three, one.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

I always say, like, for people, because some adults really don't think they're like, oh, they don't remember that. They don't know this. Yeah. And I always say, especially, like, us having, you know, four kids, but raising three kids are so smart. They're so smart. And if they don't pick up on, like, words yet, they're picking up on all the energies and stuff like that too.

[David Shane]

Just. Just like Tyler said, a lot of our, our struggles and feelings and illnesses and all these things aren't visible.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

We're fighting battles and things that we internalize and never share with anybody.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And I kind of think it's like dogs. So, like, my only experience with parenting is I got a one year old shiba Inu puppy that I got when I was three months old.

[Kate]

By the way, our daughter Nova's gonna be so jealous. That's her favorite breed.

[David Shane]

Yes.

[Ad Host 1]

So bad.

[Kate]

But yes. She's gonna be so jealous.

[David Shane]

Handful, too. But when I got this puppy with my girlfriend and I knew about the temperament and breed, and they're not the most affectionate and they're not gonna be lap dogs and sleep with you. And that's the kind of dog I wanted. I wanted one where I'm gonna get to smother it with love for selfish reasons and feel like, oh, it loves me so much too, because it's laying my stomach. So I. I didn't want to get a shiba Inu because it's not gonna make me feel loved. It's not gonna let me, like, smother it. She wanted to get it. So I said, you know what? Forget what I know about this breed. I'm gonna pretend that this is a human and this is. I'm having a daughter.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

So I'm gonna sing to it. I'm gonna tell it things I'M gonna do all this.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Well, what is that dog now? It's got the shiba Inu temperament. Yeah. The breed. But it's a baby, and it loves me, and it lets it sing to me. I sing it lullabies, you know, another

[Tyler]

nature versus nurture example. Because the breed is supposed to be this.

[David Shane]

I'm a softie. I can cry thinking about the dog. But, you know, as adoptive parents, I think what most people should just, you know, embrace the perspective and understanding that, hey, this child, regardless of whether they express to me they're good, they're not good, they understand. They don't have questions. Reinforce it.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You know, like, we do it anyway. Bring it up anyway, even if they're not asking questions.

[David Shane]

And before they can even talk.

[Tyler]

Right.

[David Shane]

And speak and do all that, tell them.

[Kate]

Right.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Reinforce it. Remind them. And. And I think that's what my parents did. At least that's what they told me. They said even when I was a baby, they would sing to me. They would say things.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Yes. And I think what they probably did was, you know, I was probably six months old, and I have my mom reinforcing me or how loved I am.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Kate]

Isn't that beautiful?

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Thank God.

[Kate]

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. And that's probably why just, you know, also your personality. But I think that's also why as you. You've grown up, you've been such an empath and about humanity, and that's why you do the type of content that you do on Tick Tock of the people just loving people and loving themselves, and it's beautiful.

[David Shane]

It's because of them.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

That's what I mean from them always putting it into you and reinforcing it. But also, I. I just want to say, like, I think I love hearing about your story and that you had such a great upbringing with adoptive parents. And one thing I did want to go back to before we leave, I want to. I just wanted to say from, like, a birth mom perspective that I. I'm so, so happy that you got to meet her before she passed because.

[David Shane]

Thank you.

[Kate]

Tyler and I, we hear stories, so many stories of adoptees that'll be like, I found out who they were, but I was too nervous. I waited three months. Then I reached out and found out they were dead. You know, or sometimes some of these are like, you know, I was gonna go meet them, and they died two days later or something. And it's just like, you never know when it's gonna happen. And I have a Feeling, I think that your birth mom, you know, could pass away with a sense of peace knowing that she did get to meet you and get all those what ifs kind of sort of answered.

[David Shane]

And what, what you said right there is one of the truest things about this existence in life where especially in the adoption space and you guys know probably better than anybody that there's so many adoptees and people at different stages of life where they have this curiosity and wonder, but there's fear. And fear can halt us from doing things. Yes, but in life we know how fragile this is. If you don't take the time to sometimes make yourself uncomfortable, communicate feelings, questions, that opportunity can come and go.

[Kate]

Well, we always, we teach our kids, we always say, like, feel like. He always asks Nova, our oldest, you know, what is on the other side of fear?

[Tyler]

I always ask always, because she gets, she gets kind of in her head, she's a lot like me.

[Kate]

And so what do you tell her?

[Tyler]

I say, what is on the other side of fear? And she says, discovery, enjoy and opportunity. And the opportunity that's there is joy in learning something new because we always

[Kate]

try to teach them, like, you know, even though you're scared, like on the other side of it could be amazing and beautiful and joy.

[Tyler]

Well, I pretty much always hear that like fear, fear unfortunately is the enemy. And that, and that is something that you have to really take seriously. But also you can't let it control your decision making because like we just talked about there, I, I, and I didn't know this until we started getting the adoption work that there were so many adoptees who reached out and said, I was so scared to hurt my adoptive parents feelings that I didn't say anything for years.

[David Shane]

And, and they neglected their own internal.

[Tyler]

And they even said, and they even said I came from adoptive parents who said, if you ever want to, I will help you. So they're, it's a normal feeling thing that adoptees uniquely experienced. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had the best adoptive parents. They're so loving, they're so understanding, and they even preach like, please let us help you find them. But that internal fear of disappointing them or hurting them. So they waited so long to where they finally got the courage to do something and it's too late because their bio parents are now dead and they have no answers. And no, and I feel like that right there is what is at risk if you allow fear to dictate your decisions. In, in, in. That's why I always tell our kids, like on the other side of Fear is opportunity.

[David Shane]

The, the, the, the toughest part. And, and this is like a big unknown. I, I think with that connecting with biological parents and everyone's different how you respond, but it's in the situations where the, the human, you know, the adoptee is reaching out and connecting and it's not so favorable.

[Tyler]

Right.

[David Shane]

You know, you're not so proud of the people they are.

[Kate]

Right, right.

[David Shane]

And that's one of those things where, like, maybe there's no way of knowing this beforehand. It's kind of like a gamble. But that's where, and I don't know that anyone could ever be prepared. I think that's where it can get really messy.

[Kate]

Yeah, of course.

[David Shane]

And, and really throwing a wrench and just our ability to think rationally, function rationally. When it's that type of situation, you reach out and connect and then you, you realize, wow, like, I'm, I'm ashamed or this is a life. I feel like.

[Kate]

And I, and I feel like, like I'm not an adoptee, but I feel like for those instances or anybody that is looking to reconnect with their birth family, I feel like the adoptee should have support.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Kate]

You know, whether it's their therapist support or their parents support or something. Because, like, that if they find, they reach out and they find out like, oh, they're not really healthy people.

[Tyler]

And we've heard a lot of reunions where adoptees are like, this was not a good experience. And I also think that's important to talk about is that like, like as an adoptee who especially wonders and is curious about their biological family, there's a lot of fantasy involved and you kind of get a dream version of what these people might be like, and then that dream gets totally crushed. It's like, to have as least amount of expectations as possible is the best, safest way to go. And don't, don't expect. Yeah. And so I feel like it's important

[Kate]

that, like, and have a support system.

[Tyler]

And I also think it's important to like, you know, understand that reunions with biological families isn't always the best. It's not. And sometimes, you know, but I also feel like the adoptee deserves the dignity to discover that for themselves. Even if the adoptive parents know they're gonna find out they're not good people. Give them the dignity to discover that because that's has to be a part of their own journey and understanding that connection or whatever. And. But so another question I had was, what. What could. Since you, you, you experience reunion with your Biological family, what could birth parents, what could they do better? What could they do to prepare for a reunion to make it as easy as possible for the adoptee?

[David Shane]

I think, like you said, it's developing a. Embracing a perspective and mindset that despite maybe having all these strong emotions and feelings and questions and. And wanting to shower the adoptee with love and reinforce to them that, hey, I feel all this, and it's not why I do this, it's their terms. And so you almost have to ensure that you're listening, respecting, accepting, and allowing them to move at their speed.

[Kate]

Makes sense. Yeah.

[David Shane]

And I think the response that most people would want is the person to prioritize listening, you know, the parent, biological parent. But also, as humans, we don't like to be wrong. And I think there's probably circumstances that arise where a biological parent's connecting with the adoptee, and maybe the adoptee holds resentment, has anger, frustration, different things. Well, as a. As a. As a parent. Right. Especially a biological parent, that's probably the worst thing to hear.

[Tyler]

Right?

[David Shane]

That this kid holds anger, this child that you brought in this world that you may love and have worried about how they're doing and all these things, and they're mad at you and see,

[Kate]

and I feel like, as a birth parent, me and Ty always said, like, if Carly ever comes back and she does have anger, resentment, hurt, I'm going to sit there.

[David Shane]

Yep.

[Kate]

With my hands folded, listen and apologize. And then after she's done talking, say, is there anything I can do to help fix this? You know what I mean? Because.

[David Shane]

And that's. I think, the beautiful thing, I think where it could probably get messy is where, you know, a lot of us are, we're inherently selfish. But when you're met with that, that's probably the worst thing you want to hear. What do you want to do? You want to convince, no, that's not true. But then you're dismissing, right. You're invalidating, and you're actually fueling the negative feelings and emotions.

[Kate]

So we've kind of prepared ourselves for that. We're like, whatever she throws at us, we'll, hands folded, sit there, listen and say, I'm sorry. What. What can we do to fix it?

[Tyler]

Like, we always say, I think the best thing to say and just be prepared to say is, I'm sorry and I love you. And that's. I think those two things are the safest responses because I feel like for a lot of adoptees who have this resentment and this anger, that is valid.

[David Shane]

Right?

[Tyler]

That is so Valid.

[Ad Host 1]

And it's their feeling.

[Tyler]

And I think. I think as biological parents, like, understand that their perception is their perception, and that's. And that's real to them. So I think to try to, like, justify, explain reason, it's like, no, no, just fold your hands, bow your head, and accept it.

[David Shane]

There is something that I want to say, because I know the Internet and social media, you know, we're basically one big audience or peanut gallery, and we're judging people day in, day out based on what they share, what we see, how they're behaving, and oftentimes we think we know, especially when we're falling in love on this journey. But in the space that you guys are in, you guys have opened up your life to the general public for what, over a decade now.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And you guys every day are doing what you love and I'm sure brings you fulfillment. First, what you're most passionate about and what people need to understand who are watching this is you may be a parent, you may be a child, you may be a brother or sister, you may be adopted or given somebody up for adoption, but you don't have the ability to understand who other people are just off a conversation and all this. And so I just want to tell you guys, I commend you guys for talking about, you know, a lot of these difficult conversations and topics that are hard to talk about, but for putting yourselves out there, you know, amidst all the scrutiny and the cruel Internet. Because I know you guys have emotions and feelings. Oh, yeah. Especially when it comes to your children and the experiences you've been through, and that probably makes it that much harder. But, you know, I. I hope as people continue to follow you guys along and follow your journey, to know that everyone's doing the best they can. Right. And you guys are, too.

[Kate]

Yeah, everybody is.

[David Shane]

Thank you.

[Ad Host 1]

And I just want to say thank

[Kate]

you for just coming and joining us and being vulnerable and sharing your experience.

[David Shane]

Of course.

[Kate]

Like, really, I feel like the more that these things are talked about, the more we can kind of end certain stigmas, you know, which is super important to us. You know, we want to share all adoptee stories and. And for people to find you.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Where do they find.

[Kate]

Where can they find you at? Do you know? Great question names.

[David Shane]

It's at David B. Shane. So David B as in boy. And then S H A N E. And. And that's every social media platform.

[Kate]

And by the way, two guys like his Tick Tock is the most, most heartwarming content ever. Literally. I love it.

[Tyler]

Just Go. Follow.

[Kate]

Yes.

[Tyler]

Like. And share.

[Ad Host 1]

Thank you.

[David Shane]

I appreciate it.

[Kate]

Thank you so much.

[David Shane]

Thank you, guys.

[Kate]

And I hope you do everything that you need to. To take care of yourself, even at, like, even if it is stepping away from your birth family for a while to just process things. And.

[David Shane]

Yeah, that's.

[Kate]

And I really. And I really hope that you and your biological bio sister have the time soon to talk face to face and talk about.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And if anything happens, let us know.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Part two. Yeah. Love that.

[David Shane]

And I hope so, too. And yeah, it's.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Thank you for holding this space. And yeah, I hope that anyone who can't relate to the adoption side of things or being a parent who tunes in and follows you guys understands that it's okay to not be okay with what you got going on. But there's no such thing as perfect. And we're all sitting here invalidating, dehumanizing and judging, looking for faults in one another. Right. But everyone's doing the best they can, you know, and so.

[Kate]

Yes.

[David Shane]

So let people live.

[Kate]

Straight up.

[Ad Host 1]

You hear what he said?

[David Shane]

Yeah. And it takes a lot to put yourself out on the Internet.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And be judged. But Tyler and Kate, you know, are loving parents, a husband and wife. You know, they have family, they have lives. And you just see them in the space on the Internet. But before you go to Common Attack or you read a news story. Yeah. Something being reported on them, more than likely it's not true. But your brain is going to believe in whatever narrative. Right. It wants to believe in.

[Kate]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Tyler]

Confirmation bias. It's the worst thing.

[Kate]

Well, guys, make sure you go and find him on all his social medias. And we just want to say a big thanks for coming and just sharing your story and we will talk to you guys next week. Thanks for joining and thanks for watching.

[Tyler]

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It's Kayl Lowery. Join me for Barely Famous. You might think you know me, but trust me, you don't know this version of me. This is where I say what everyone is too scared to ask and ask the questions that nobody wants to answer. I'm talking exes, unexpected guests, viral chaos, messy relationships. Really, just all of it. Nothing is off limits. Nothing is off the record. And yeah, thank you can get a little unhinged. It's real, it's raw, and it's probably going to make you gasp at least once. So follow rate and review Barely Famous wherever you get your podcasts.