Reality TV Bullying with Rei Clarke

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cate & Ty Break It Down

Episode: Reality TV Bullying with Rei Clarke
Date: October 15, 2025
Hosts: Tyler & Catelynn Baltierra
Guest: Rei Clarke (Ray Clark)

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Overview

In this episode, Tyler and Catelynn (Cate & Ty) welcome commentator and content creator Rei Clarke for an honest, wide-ranging conversation. They dive deep into the culture of reality TV criticism, online bullying, the responsibilities that come with an audience, and the personal stories that shape their approach to public life. Cate and Ty also tackle questions and criticisms surrounding past controversies, including "adoption drama," and Rei sheds light on her own journey with identity, trauma, and family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Culture of Online Critique & Bullying

• The Bullying Cycle: Rei shares her frustration about being both the target and observer of online bullying, especially in reality TV communities.
  • Quote: "I'm sick of this bullying… I was bullied my whole life… but that doesn’t give anybody the right to bully or body shame." (Ray, 01:55)
• Public Figure Dilemma: The hosts and Rei discuss the paradox of being public figures—how criticism and unsolicited opinions come with the territory, but there's a line between feedback and cruelty.
• Malicious Commentary: They reflect on how many "commentators" cross into genuine malice for attention or algorithm rewards.
  • Ty: "How do you gain followers? Hate." (05:07)
• Empathy & Responsibility: Rei is intentional about not spreading harm and cites her efforts to fact-check and avoid rumor-mongering.
  • Rei: "I have changed the way that I discuss things on my platform because I too, am realizing that words do matter." (06:11)

2. Healthy Discourse Versus Hate

• Integrity in Commentary: Cate & Ty praise Rei and creator Elle for being critical without cruelty, focusing on truth and fairness over hot takes for clicks.
  • Ty: “You actually keep it in the forefront of your mind—could this hurt somebody?” (07:43)
• Criticizing Without Harming: Rei distinguishes between discussing public actions and personally attacking someone.
• Echo Chambers: They address how social media can amplify toxic behaviors via groupthink and "trend following."
  • Rei: "People have lost filter. Filter's gone." (09:34)
• Backlash for Empathy: Rei notes that she receives hate even for showing empathy and for not engaging in bash-culture.
  • Rei: "It's not until I am just saying like, you're worthless, you're garbage… that's what I was called last night." (11:03)

3. The Ripple Effects of Reality TV & Public Scrutiny

• From Fandom to Friendship: Rei recounts how her TikTok commentary led to genuine conversations and eventual friendship with Cate and Ty.
• Misunderstandings & Misinformation: They discuss challenges in untangling true events (like adoption updates) versus rumor, and the feeling of vulnerability when addressing these matters in public.

4. Addressing Adoption Controversies & Questions

(Timestamps 29:16–54:11)

• Open Q&A: Rei poses direct questions from the public regarding Cate & Ty’s adoption "texting scandal." How did they handle alarming messages about their adopted daughter, why did they involve a niece, and how did they determine the best response?
• Cate & Ty's Answers:
  • They sought information out of desperation and concern, not malice or disregard for boundaries.
  • Cate: "You don’t understand the PTSD of relinquishment…you're not going to understand what your mind will do." (34:01)
  • Ty: "Was it wrong for the conversations to last this long? Yes. But it comes down to parental desperation for safety." (35:18)
• On Watching Carly Sing: They discuss how they first saw their daughter's performances online and why Cate chose to process those emotions privately before broadcasting them.
  • Cate: "People, you might watch me on TV, but this is my real life. These are my real feelings." (46:31)
  • Ty: "This woman has given her all to you… Give her three minutes of agency." (52:30)

5. Rei Clarke's Story: Identity, Trauma & Resilience

(Timestamps 54:13–85:06)

• Background & Family: Rei shares her upbringing in California, raised by grandparents due to her mother’s struggles with addiction, and touches on racial identity complexities growing up mixed race.
• Struggles With Acceptance: Describes hiding her sexuality in a conservative, Catholic home, and only coming out in her late twenties.
  • "I was searching for love and I wasn’t being loved. I was being physically abused, mentally..." (69:33)
  • On her wife: “It took me until I met my wife to understand what love was.” (70:20)
• Therapy & Healing: Rei credits her wife and therapist with helping her process childhood trauma and learn self-love.
  • “She has helped me be able to heal the little girl in me…” (71:08)
• Reconciling With Family: Touches on the mix of heartache and gratitude—her grandmother eventually accepting her sexuality, her mother’s struggles with addiction but showing kindness, and her journey to choose empathy over bitterness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ty (On Social Media Responsibility):
  “Once it gets to a level, you have to take responsibility…Now you have to take moral inventory, check yourself, and figure out how am I gonna move forward.” (09:07)

• Ray (on Filtering Herself):
  “My whole life, I’ve been taught to filter myself…For years, I was made to be silent. So as an adult and through therapy, I have learned that it is okay to be loud. It is okay to have a voice.” (11:40)

• Kate (on Emotional Toll of Adoption):
  “If people don’t understand PTSD, you won’t understand…but it puts you right in the spot where you were, and you just feel all these intense feelings and emotions.” (47:03)

• Ty (on Curiosity and Judgment):
  “Most people are not as bad as you think they are… you see them from outside, you think all these things, and then you talk to them… and it’s like, ‘wow.’” (16:52)

• Ray (on Platform Integrity):
  “If I don’t stay true to me and who I am and how I feel, then the only person I’m betraying in this world is myself. You know, just to appease a few followers?” (22:22)

• Ty (on The Appeal of Vulnerability):
  “She has shared…she’s opened her legs and pushed kids out on national TV. She’s given her all to you…give her three minutes of agency.” (52:19)

• Ray (on Family Tolerance and Love):
  “I was scared shitless…But my nana was like, ‘yeah, I raised you, didn’t I?’ And that was her way of saying, I love you." (78:47)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Bullying & Social Media Dynamics: 01:38–09:39
• Responsibilities of Commentary: 06:11–08:11
• Personal Attacks vs. Reporting: 08:35–11:40
• Origin of Online Friendship: 12:30–16:35
• Adoption & Texting Scandal Q&A: 29:16–54:11
• Cate on Watching Carly Sing: 45:56–54:11
• Ray’s Life Story and Coming Out: 55:18–84:20

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Tone & Atmosphere

This episode balances seriousness and warmth: honest about trauma, online toxicity, and accountability, but also full of laughter, candid banter, and mutual support. Rei is direct and heartfelt; Cate & Ty are empathetic, sometimes self-critical but always genuine.

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Closing

Cate & Ty thank Rei for her candor and integrity, emphasizing the value of real human connection beyond internet drama and the power of taking responsibility for our words and influence. Rei leaves listeners with hope—the importance of staying true to oneself, healing from past wounds, and refusing to lose empathy in a digital world.

Ray Clark on social media: Ray.Clark (TikTok, Facebook, Instagram)

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Listen for:

• Raw discussion about online bullying and critique culture
• Nuanced answers to difficult questions around adoption, family, and privacy
• An inspiring window into Rei’s experiences of identity, trauma, and healing

Transcript

[Ray Clark]

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[Ty]

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[Ray Clark]

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[Kate]

Hey guys. So it is Wednesday again.

[Ty]

Hump day.

[Kate]

Hump day. Welcome back to another episode of Kate and Ty Breakdown.

[Ty]

And today we're breaking it down with Ray Reality TV with Ray. Popular podcast Jerry. First podcast.

[Ray Clark]

My first podcast.

[Ty]

Thanks for inviting me here.

[Ray Clark]

And it's with you guys.

[Ty]

I know.

[Kate]

Thanks for coming all this way.

[Ray Clark]

Thanks for having me.

[Kate]

Yeah. Yes. We're so excited. I'm so excited to have you. Who knows how much hate we're going to get? Cuz I don't know, I mean, you need to bash me on here. You need to bash us.

[Ty]

Right?

[Kate]

You know, it's like, you know, not everything needs to be said to people on the Internet, you know, especially when you talk to people. It's like people stuff can be said to each other that's not on the Internet.

[Ty]

Well, you were just talking about that. I mean you literally just had to do a live. Did you feel compelled to do a lot? Cuz you're like, dude, I'm so sick of seeing this or what was the deal?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, so I, I just gotten on alive last night because I was, I'm, I am someone. Like, I am very. If this is what I'm in right now, like this is my feeling. I'm headstrong. Like I'm going in. So that's why I went on the live last night and I was talking about you and I was like, I'm sick of this bullying. Like I'm sick of this because it also reminds me like I was bullied my whole life. So And I. And I understand. People are like, well, you know, if you can't handle it, then you shouldn't be on TV or you shouldn't be on the Internet or whatever. But that doesn't give anybody the right to bully or body shame. You know what I'm saying? It's just. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Ty]

Like, I don't think it warrants it.

[Ray Clark]

No.

[Ty]

Because I'm on public TV does not give you. Doesn't warrant you to be just a complete unnecessary. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And are you gonna come to my face and tell me to my face?

[Kate]

They would. If anything, they'd be the ones that cut to come out to you and say, like, oh, my gosh, you're so much prettier than what you are on camera. I'm like, well, that was a slick low blow.

[Ty]

And they say it's so comfy that when they say it, I'm like, man, what the. Wow, you're so much pretty on that on camera.

[Kate]

And I'm like, thanks.

[Ty]

Yeah. It's like, how do you respond to that? Thank you? So I'm admitting if I say thank you, that's. I'm admitting that look like shutting camera. Not. It's just like, how do you respond to that question?

[Ray Clark]

I would be like, oh, really?

[Kate]

Like, so.

[Ray Clark]

So how do I look?

[Ty]

Yeah, make him say it.

[Kate]

How do I look on camera? Right. You know, just say it. Don't try to sugarcoat it with some. Really. You know.

[Ty]

Yeah. But I also feel like we are just joking around because obviously you're on Tik Tok.

[Ray Clark]

You.

[Ty]

You talk about. You cover pop culture.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

You do movies.

[Ray Clark]

Movies.

[Kate]

Just, like, tons different shows.

[Ty]

What would you. What would you label yourself as?

[Ray Clark]

You know, I keep trying to find the answer to that question. Right.

[Kate]

We do, too. I'm like, it's like a hard. It's like. Do you call them like.

[Ty]

Like, I hate the word influencer, but.

[Ray Clark]

Influencer. Right. I don't consider myself a content creator, and I. I don't really consider myself a blogger either, because I talk about everything.

[Ty]

Right.

[Kate]

It's kind of like a mix. Like, you talk about a bunch of different people and whether they're on reality TV or different other things or. Yeah. I feel like it's very broad.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

And that's why I changed my name to Ray Clark, because I felt like I was getting boxed into just reality tv.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

When I'm like, yo, I'm a huge movie bug.

[Kate]

Right?

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Let me talk about these movies.

[Ty]

Yeah. You.

[Ray Clark]

Like, sometimes people ask about me or who I am, and I'm like, do I, like, stick to this or whatever?

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

So I really don't have a name for it right now. I wish I could, but I. I just don't have.

[Ty]

You're just going to flow.

[Ray Clark]

I'm just going with the flow.

[Ty]

Talking, sharing your opinions.

[Ray Clark]

Take me as I am. Right.

[Kate]

No, I love it. I love it.

[Ty]

Yeah, I do, too.

[Kate]

No, I do too.

[Ty]

It's refreshing. It's just refreshing to see because I feel like there's so many people who are not doing the way you're doing it. I will say I think you and Elle are two of the ones that I have the most respect for because you guys do it in a way of staying true to yourself, but also being kind to other people and not honing in on just dogging a specific person. You know what I mean?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And that's respectful because I think in this community, especially tick tock. How do you gain followers hate? How do I. How do I get the most engaged on my post? I'm gonna do very. Make a very controversial hot take.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

Which is going to invite hatred and criticism. And so I feel like you and Ella do a really good job of, like, balancing it.

[Ray Clark]

Well, I will say that Elle is way nicer than me.

[Kate]

She.

[Ray Clark]

I love her. She is so kind. She gives, like, that Southern, like, charm vibe, you know, so sweet. Because she knows how to, like, read you for filth without you feeling red, you know, you were red.

[Ty]

Yeah, yeah, but.

[Ray Clark]

And I am just more. I. I go based off of, like, my emotions at that time. And sometimes, like, I will say, like, I've talked about other cast members on Teen mom, like, especially if they have something immediately happening.

[Ty]

You're right.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Kate]

Yeah, of course.

[Ray Clark]

Obviously, I'm gonna talk about it in that moment. So if they have something back to back to back to back. It's not that I'm just trying to bully that person. It's like, listen, it's not my fault that they.

[Kate]

That this is going on.

[Ray Clark]

Going on. So I. I try my best. And I spoke about this last night, too. I have changed the way that I discuss things on my platform because I too, am realizing that words do matter. Words matter.

[Ty]

Right. I've seen. I've seen the change. I will say it's the first time we ever saw you.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. And as much as I love to be a commentator and, you know, read people on the side, I still have to make sure that I'm not hurting anybody in that process because people do follow Me, Right. And I'm not saying, like, I'm, like, this really big person, but the following that I do have, I want them to be able to trust me and to know that, you know, I'm. I'm just giving the information without hurting somebody. And you can do that.

[Kate]

Well, and I was gonna separate to what he was saying. Like, the thing about you and L2 is that I feel like you guys aren't just coming up with some sort of conspiracies in your head.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Kate]

You're not listening to some Joe blow in your DMs, telling you information and then running with that until it ends. Like, you act. You guys actually do, like, the due diligence to find out, like, is this accurate? Is this what's really going on? Like, you hold on to that integrity, right?

[Ty]

Yeah, well, I think it's. It is integrity because you easily could fill in the space with all your opinions. And I think it's.

[Kate]

Which, I mean, we still do have a.

[Ray Clark]

But I think.

[Ty]

But I think one thing that separates you from everybody else is that you actually keep it in the forefront of your mind. Hey, could this hurt somebody?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Which I don't think anyone on this app on TikTok is doing, because I think they know that the algorithm will reward them if they. If the more harsh and critical they are.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

And you guys are actually, hey, listen, the followers and likes, I mean, yeah, they're great, but I'm gonna focus more on maintaining my moral integrity and how I am as a person, which I feel like. Is it.

[Kate]

You know, it shows. Yeah, you can tell. It's a huge difference between. Huge difference, you know, a lot of them.

[Ty]

But you have to see it. You see other creators on there that.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, I see all the creators on there. And I. Sometimes I look at them and I'm like, like, why? Why, like, why go that far?

[Ty]

Yeah, right. I go that.

[Ray Clark]

It's one thing if I'm like, reading off all the things that you've done.

[Ty]

You know what I'm saying?

[Ray Clark]

Because you've done it.

[Ty]

Right?

[Ray Clark]

You did it. I didn't do it. I'm not making it up. You did it.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

But to go as far as. And yes, I do give my opinion, but to go as far as to be malice, you know, intentionally hurt somebody, that, for me is. Is too much.

[Kate]

Yeah, no, because like you said, words do. They do matter.

[Ty]

And I think there's a responsibility that people have. Listen, I know people start off doing your work or, you know, making this content and stuff like that. For a specific reason. But once it gets to a level, now you have to. You have to take responsibility for that.

[Kate]

You have a responsibility.

[Ty]

Huge one.

[Ray Clark]

Right?

[Ty]

Like, not ignore it, but. Well, it's just my opinion. I don't give a. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean, you should give a shit, right? If you care about people, you should definitely give a shit. And when you get to a certain level, I think you should do some moral inventory, check yourself and figure out, how am I gonna move forward. I think people just get so drowned out by the. By the attention they get from being so harsh and critical and cruel that they don't even think to check themselves. And I think people need to do that.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, they. Yeah, they've lost. People have lost Filter. Yeah, filter's gone.

[Kate]

It is gone.

[Ty]

Which is like, dude, I mean, people are reading this stuff and they, like, you said I have followers now. That's responsibility. If someone. That you make a video and that. And that follower is like, that really hurt me. That's not your intention. You know, so it's like of the court. I mean, I just think the people who are not doing that, like, could learn something from you. That's all I'm saying.

[Ray Clark]

Literally the other day, the other day I was in bed and I was like. And I made a. A video and I said, how come? And I was. About you guys. I was like, how come other people can talk about Caitlyn and Tyler and bash them and everything else? Right. But if I am just saying, like, for example, when you had mentioned that you got your diagnosis that you were autistic.

[Ty]

Right, Right.

[Ray Clark]

And I was like, but how come if I can just mention something that's. That they discussed or something that's happening?

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Well, shame on me because I wasn't bashing them in the process.

[Kate]

Yeah. How is that?

[Ty]

I don't know.

[Ray Clark]

How is that fair when I report on everyone else?

[Kate]

Well, people are about to have a heyday here. You know what I mean?

[Ty]

Like, what the.

[Kate]

I don't know.

[Ty]

They're going to payroll, so they're going to say.

[Kate]

And then even when Ray went online when the whole text scandal happened, and she was like, do I think people should be talking to minors? No. Like, yada, yada, yada. And she said her opinion, so cut and dry. And me, as a friend, I'm like, yeah, totally here.

[Ty]

Oh, yeah, got it.

[Kate]

Absolutely. I agree.

[Ray Clark]

And then even then, she's like, still ain't good enough. Look, it.

[Ty]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

It's not until I am Just saying, like, you're worthless. You're garbage.

[Kate]

Right?

[Ray Clark]

You're. Because that's what I was called last night. Because when I posted that, oh, wow. A lady came on and she was like, well, you're trash. Like, you're a trash person. I was like, so does that make you a garbage disposal? Because you're coming on here bullying me, right? Just for asking a question. It was a yes or no. Like, right. You know, like, why is that so difficult? Why do you have to bash somebody to me? And then afterwards, because after I said that, right, she was like, well, do you feel better about yourself now? Well, do you call me trash?

[Kate]

I know. I love it when you call the people out because I'm just like, fuck, yeah, right? Just the way you say things to some people that just like, comment stupid shit on your stuff. I'm like, it makes me laugh.

[Ray Clark]

I have learned because my whole life, like, I've been taught to filter myself. Like, people say I'm loud and aggressive because of the way I speak. And for years, I was made to be silent. So as an adult and through therapy, I have learned that it is okay to be loud. It is okay to have a voice. Yes, absolutely. You don't like it? Too bad.

[Kate]

And then. But then I'm like, I've told you before, like, not even on camera and stuff, too. I'm like, and how fucking stereotypical of you to say I'm loud and aggressive. What the fuck?

[Ty]

You.

[Kate]

You're going to make me get loud and aggressive for calling me loud and aggressive?

[Ray Clark]

It's. It's weird. It's. It's very weird. The fan base is weird.

[Ty]

Okay, how. How. How did all this start, though? How did you get into this whole thing? We don't know about a label yet. Content creator, whatever.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. So how do I get it, okay, like, into, like, social media? So, yeah, I. I love reality tv. Okay. I love the drama. I'm not gonna lie.

[Ty]

Oh, yeah, I love it.

[Ray Clark]

I love the tea. I was. I got my wife into watching some of it with me, right? Like Housewives and stuff. Before, she'd be like, no, I don't want to watch. So, like, okay, so I watched by myself. And then every once in a while.

[Kate]

She'D be like, what's. I don't know what, you know? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Ray Clark]

Like, well, what happened was also, you know, so then when she started watching with me, I was like, oh, maybe she's as invested as I am.

[Kate]

So.

[Ray Clark]

So when I would find out tea, like, see some tea online and I would tell her, she'd be like, I love you, but I don't care. And she was like, I. I really love you, and I know that you like this stuff, but I really don't give a shit. And I was like, okay, that's fair. So I went on TikTok one day, and I was like, I'm just gonna give my opinion. Like, give my two cents, like, tell somebody, like, what's happening. And. And I did. I made a video on it, turned my phone off, and then next day, it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Ty]

What was it about? You remember?

[Ray Clark]

No, I think it was about Janelle. Oh. I think I want to say it was about.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Because she had a lot going on at that time because she had just left David.

[Ty]

Oh, okay. Which I noticed, though, whatever's happening currently, whatever. And then someone makes a video about it. I go to their profile sometimes, and I'll see that. Like, that. Only that one video has, like, 100, 000 views, and their other ones will have not. I'm like, oh. And it got me thinking, like, okay, so once. Once something gets traction like that and.

[Ray Clark]

Someone goes, oh, it's like the algorithm.

[Ty]

Yes. Okay. Oh, here's what I have to do to get more. Oh, this is how I get a lot of followers. So they. They get honed in, and they almost get, like, two.

[Kate]

Some people more than others.

[Ty]

Yeah, they get too, like, focused on that. Okay. I'm gonna keep repeating that same content so I can get that same engagement.

[Ray Clark]

I. I was taught. I spoke about Janelle, and then I spoke about Gypsy Rose because she had just gotten out. And that was mainly how I got a lot of my followers was because I went on a live, and I was like, so do you think that Gypsy should be in prison still, or do you think that she should be free? Like, what do you guys think? And that's. I got, like, a lot of traction from that. I spoke about housewives, and then somehow I got wrapped into Teen Mom.

[Ty]

Yeah, I know, right?

[Ray Clark]

And that just became, like, my main thing to talk about. So when everybody's like, why do you keep talking about Gypsy? Oh, it's. Well, because she's one of the first people that I started talking about initially. Right, right.

[Kate]

Yeah. And her stuff was very interesting. I mean, it blew up, her getting out and all the things. So of course I'm going to talk about it.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

I think it's interesting because the first. The.

[Ray Clark]

Even.

[Ty]

The first way we ever got connected with you, it was you. You like you saw something. You saw live or something like that. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So it was because it was when you guys had just gotten the news that they had closed the adoption. Yeah. And then you were posting a lot on your Instagram stories. So Kate was posting a lot on her Instagram stories. And I was like, is she having a spiral moment?

[Kate]

Right, right.

[Ty]

Yeah, she's crashing out.

[Ray Clark]

Crashing out. And so I remember I went on a live because I was at. I was at work and I hadn't clocked in yet. So I was like on my live, having my little chit chat, drinking my little coffee. Right. And then Kate was in the comments. And I remember this specifically because somebody said, like, not Caitlyn in the comments. And I read that out loud.

[Kate]

Not Caitlyn in the comments.

[Ray Clark]

I was like, not Caitlyn in the comments. Wait, Caitlyn's in the comments.

[Ty]

Wait.

[Ray Clark]

So then I was like, if you want to talk, like, come up, like, let's. Let's talk.

[Kate]

And so you did. And it was because, like, people were circulating a whole bunch of, like, misinformation then. And so when I saw Ray talking about some things, I was like, well, no, this is what I was kind of trying to tell her. Like, no, that. But this is actually what happened. And so then, yeah, she brought me up and we started having a whole conversation about it. Yeah.

[Ty]

Which that right there, I think is important because that shows the vulnerability on your side to talk about what's going on. This is how I feel about it. You having the courage to be. Hey, I know you're not really agreeing or you're, you know, it's hot. Take on all the situation. And then for you to say, well, come on, join. You say, okay, I mean, that right there, that, that kind of, like, ability to just be in that space, even if things are.

[Kate]

Yeah. Whether you're not. But, you know, I can tell you from my side, you can see how it feels from your side. And then if they ever want to share their side, they can.

[Ray Clark]

Whatever.

[Ty]

I think it developed this, like, ability to, like, okay, we can. Actually, some. Most people are not as bad as you think they are.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

You know what I mean? Like, you see them from outside, you think, oh, all these things. And then you talk to them or you get to know them better, and it's like, oh, wow. Like, holy.

[Kate]

Like, well, and I think too, like, in the realm of, like, reality TV and like, even just everything that happened with us and the adoption and all of that, it's like, not a lot of people knew the full scope of the situation.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Kate]

You know what I mean? Right. So I.

[Ty]

Their fault. So we're here to just.

[Kate]

It's. It's our fault because a lot of things we felt like we couldn't share in the past or whatever. And then eventually, once it's closed, I got nothing to lose. I'm putting it all out there right now. You know what I mean? So.

[Ray Clark]

And I will say, like, when I would talk about you guys, there were times where it was something like, for example, there was a video that I made that blew up. Right. Because it was around the time that you and your mom weren't talking and you were having a discussion with Nova.

[Kate]

Oh, yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And Amber called her daughter a dick. So it was those two, like, in the same freaking episode or, you know.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So when that happened, I was talking about trauma and. And healing and how important it was to be heard as a child instead of being talked down to. And that was another video that had blown up because I was like, these are the differences, the polarity. Right. Because two people. Two people can have trauma. No, no trauma is better than the other. Right?

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Who wants it?

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

No trauma is better than the other. But it's. It's how you deal with that trauma. Right. And how you break those cycles. And I talked about how important it is to break those cycles, not to put those.

[Kate]

And it's hard, but you gotta try your damn. Destroy it.

[Ty]

So you're pretty much bringing the polarity of like, wow, we have one calling her daughter dick. We have one saying, I'm here for you. This is really hard. Pretty much holding the space, I guess.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

That's interesting, because I didn't really think about it from that perspective, but, yeah, it makes sense.

[Ray Clark]

But, yeah, I. I had talked about everything, so when that moment came up, I was like, well, I don't know what the hell is going on. I just know she's posting a lot.

[Ty]

Right, Right.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So that's when. When I had the opportunity to have you up, I was like, well, come up.

[Kate]

Like, let's talk.

[Ty]

Were you shocked that she invite. Like, hell yeah. I was like, damn, what the fuck?

[Ray Clark]

I was like, wait, is this really. You know. And then I heard her voice and.

[Kate]

I was like, oh, yeah.

[Ty]

All right. Yeah.

[Kate]

Hey, girl. Yeah.

[Ty]

Well, I just think it's a lot of. I think I give a lot of credit to both of you, but I feel like a lot of people, I don't think are willing to expose themselves on that level. Like, you went on a live. That live could have went any which way.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

You know what I'm saying?

[Kate]

Especially, you know me, I'm emotionally reactive.

[Ty]

Oh, very. Yeah. Which I'm like, hey, go for it. But I'm like, in the end of the day, I'm like, oh, man. You on live, Kate.

[Ray Clark]

It's. Whoo.

[Kate]

You know, he doesn't know what the fuck's gonna come out of my mouth.

[Ty]

But. But I thought it's. It's kind of crazy because moving forward now, we're just having this conversation which never would have been able to happen.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

That if. If that vulnerability and that courage didn't come together and it happens that way. Which I think just. It's so cool.

[Ray Clark]

Well, and I also think it's important for people to understand, like, have, like, being able to speak or converse with people when you want to ask questions. Right. Like, I've asked you guys tons of questions.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Lives.

[Kate]

And that's like, what you do too, asking questions. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So if I'm. If I have you on a live. If I invite you into my home and then I spit in your face when you come into my home.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

You're gonna turn around and walk the out.

[Ty]

Right?

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

And no one's gonna be heard.

[Ray Clark]

No.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

No.

[Ray Clark]

And versus I, me inviting you into my home, having a cup of tea and having a discussion. Right. So that maybe the audience gets a different perspective.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

And it may not be something that they agree with, but at least they can hear you out. Yeah. And a lot of people expect me to just, you know, yell at you and curse at you and name call you when. Where you. You come here, you try that and.

[Ty]

Let me know how that works.

[Kate]

Right? Yeah, exactly.

[Ty]

Well, I think it's kind of Jordy crazy. The same thing.

[Kate]

Exactly what I was gonna say. Like, I think around that time that I In your life was like, around the time we had.

[Ray Clark]

It was around the same time you were.

[Kate]

We had the conversation with Jordy, too, and. Same thing. Like, we didn't go into it changing his mind. But I was like, I want you to be fully educated about the topic of my life and my experience. If you're going to talk about it.

[Ty]

If you're going to talk about it. Right.

[Kate]

Like, doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Even to this day, Jordy's like, do I still agree with some of the things? No. But do I have more of an understanding? Yes.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And it was kind of like the.

[Ty]

Same thing, which I think that's what society is lacking right now. Is that there's. Where is the curiosity for deeper understanding for individuals.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Why are. And has a digital space created such a, you know, divide that we're losing that curiosity to understand people on a deeper level?

[Ray Clark]

I think.

[Ty]

I think it does. I think it completely shuts people out. And then what. What warrants more cruelty than just having this. Oh, not a real person. There's this wall. I can't, you know, So I think it's important to, like. Yeah, do that.

[Ray Clark]

Or, like, it's like a trend. They have to follow the trend to feel important.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

You know?

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Versus getting. I got so much backlash just for, you know, talking to you guys or being your friends. And it was like, I felt so.

[Ty]

I know we felt horrible. Right. You Raiders kick us to the curb. It's not worth it.

[Ray Clark]

And I remember, like, I remember because a lot of people were like, well, they didn't have your back, blah, blah, but they didn't know, you know, we were talking and you guys were like, look, if you don't want to be our friend, if you guys. If you don't want to talk to us because you're getting the hate. Like, we understand.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

You know, but I also felt like if I don't stay true to me and who I am and. And how I feel, then the only person I'm betraying in this world is myself.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

You know, just. What? Just to appease a few followers.

[Ty]

Right.

[Kate]

Yeah. And I think we felt bad during that period of time, too, was like, because we became. Started becoming friends in a time in our life where we were getting a lot of hate.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And I felt like at that moment, I felt like, wow, me just even putting it out to the world that I am friends with Rey and. And just because she talks about people online, like, dragged you into this fudgeing mess that you had no part of. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I was like, this is so. And that's why I was very much like, listen, I understand, like, because you didn't ask for all this bullshit, stupid nonsense just because we talk.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Well, that's why I feel it's kind of like our responsibility as people who are public figures, whatever you want to call it, that, like, we understand to be well, also to reach out to people who have supported us or shown or whatever that, like, when things happen, I'm gonna be transparent with you because I think you. You deserve it. You're gonna go and talk about and. And. And. And be our friend, whatever. Like, you deserve to know the truth and that's why when all the crazy texting stuff happened, I reach out to you right now. So I'll send you all of it. You can have all. You know what I mean?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Because when all that happened, like, I was in. I was camping. I was camping, and I'm like, getting, like, my service is in and out, okay? So when this is happening and I'm getting stuff, and I'm like, yeah, my phone, like, I'm driving through the curves, and I'm. It's going bing, bing, bing, bing. And I'm like, oh, gosh, what is happening? Right? And I like, look. And I, like, see what's. You know, what they're sending me. And I immediately send this to you. And I'm like, hey, you know, what is this?

[Kate]

Right?

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Right, Right.

[Ray Clark]

You know, and so we had that discussion, and I said, like. Like, don't message this person again. Don't. Don't talk to these people.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Clearly, these are people that you can't trust.

[Ty]

Right? Like, right now, everyone.

[Ray Clark]

So when it happened, and you were like, yeah, no, I. You know, I'm not. And then I lost service again. So I was like, well, you know, and because.

[Kate]

And the thing, too, is, like, you know, there's lots of things like. Like how you said, how you had that conversation. Like, hey, guys, this isn't a good look. You probably need to stop who you're talking, because as friends, we don't have to go blast it all over the Internet, right? I can. I can tell. You know, I tell my friends all the time, like, hey, man, you're being really fucking crazy dumb. Like, I wouldn't probably do that, but I'm not going on the Internet on Facebook.

[Ty]

My friend's an idiot. I told my friend.

[Kate]

I told my friend Amber today that she needs to stop what she's doing because she looks like a psycho ass and she needs to knock it off. You know what I mean?

[Ty]

Like, yeah, right.

[Ray Clark]

Like, why.

[Kate]

Why do we have to do that? And why do you have to bash certain people online? Just so that way you don't get bullied.

[Ty]

Yeah. Which is weird. Like, how does that. How does bullying. Counteracting your own bullying by bullying somebody else?

[Ray Clark]

So from my understanding is you are. You're talking about all these other people and what all these other people are doing. Right. You should be doing the same thing. And I was like, well, I did.

[Kate]

Right? That's what I don't.

[Ty]

Yeah. Either. I'm like.

[Ray Clark]

And when I did, y' all were coming for me, right? So I. It didn't matter how I said it, when I said it, because at that point, all you guys saw was, well, you're having dinner with them, so you're. You guys are in cahoots. And I was like, look, and my wife asked me, she was like, are you sure? Like, you want to. And I was like, listen, I don't, I don't care. Because at the end of the day, like I said, I have to be able to sleep at night with my decision. Right. And I go based off of what I see and what I know. And so when I'm seeing like all these other things on the Internet, like on Tick Tock, especially all these people saying all of these certain things, I'm like, well, how are they getting this information?

[Ty]

Yeah, right.

[Ray Clark]

Which is giving.

[Ty]

The difference is, though, Ray, you reached out the difference. You reached out before making a video, making this huge thing. You said, hey, guys, this is what I'm seeing. What's the deal? And that right there is curiosity for a deeper understanding.

[Kate]

So you're really good. Like, like magazine person.

[Ty]

A real journalist.

[Kate]

Like a real.

[Ty]

A real journalist. Yeah. Because there's people out there, I think, that pretend like, right. We're just covering pop culture media. It's like, you're not, though. You're. You're using it as an excuse to be hateful.

[Kate]

Because like you said, some people are like, putting facts out there. And it's like, where did you find this information? Can I see this information? Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And when I'm not given this information, I'm like, well, then how can I. I can't just go based off your word.

[Ty]

Right, Right, right.

[Kate]

I gotta have proof.

[Ray Clark]

Right?

[Kate]

Like solid proof.

[Ty]

Help me help you hate them.

[Kate]

Right?

[Ray Clark]

Right, right.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So I said, so that's. And that's why when so many people are like, well, I'm disappointed in you. You don't pay my bills.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

What are you?

[Kate]

Just.

[Ray Clark]

The only person that I care about is my wife.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

And my wife is damn proud of me. So at this point, I'm thinking, show me. Show. It's like a teacher. Show me your work.

[Ty]

Yeah, right.

[Ray Clark]

Show me your work.

[Ty]

It should be simple to do.

[Ray Clark]

If you work, you guys know, you know, you guys have entrusted me with a lot of stuff that I don't share with people. A lot of content creators.

[Ty]

This.

[Ray Clark]

Right. Obviously, I'm a trusted human being. You are. So why is it difficult for you to share this piece of information with me and say, please do not share? Which I wouldn't.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Even if you guys are My friends.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Like, please, you know, please don't share this. Absolutely right. This is. You're trusting me with this. But at that point, I can then go to you guys and say, look, I saw this for myself.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Right. Cut the.

[Ty]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[Ray Clark]

You know.

[Kate]

Right. And.

[Ray Clark]

And I know what's up.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And then I. And then I move on.

[Kate]

That's because you're a good person. Right. That's why.

[Ty]

Well, I think in your intentions behind doing what you're doing is also pure. It's not. You're not, you don't have any malice intent. You're not, you're not in it for the, for the like just being cruel and just, you know, creating discourse. Because I, I do believe that there's healthy discourse and unhealthy discourse, and I think you promote healthy discourse and I think people that on this app do just promote unhealthy and they thrive off of it. And unfortunately, I hate that they get. I hate. It's more popular, I guess I hate the unhealthy.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

This course is more popular than the healthy part. So I feel like it's. It's a whole thing. But I, you know, it takes a lot of vulnerability to do what you do because like you said, I mean, just for being friends with someone, you get dragged, which is.

[Kate]

I can't help it that I met Ray. We ran out of live one time and then we talked every now and then. And then she's a really good person. I ended up liking her.

[Ray Clark]

She likes us.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

What the.

[Ray Clark]

And even being like we've seen said like, we don't have to agree. Not at all. We don't have to agree.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

A lot of friends that do some stupid ass that I don't agree with, and I'll tell them that, but I'm still their friend.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

But that's kind of why I thought it was important for all of us to have conversations because it's like, I mean, here's, here's. I always want to have. Give people the opportunity. What do you want? What question do you have? What? You know, what are people saying? What do people want you to ask us? What do people. What are they? What do they want? You know, I mean, what the hell do people want? Right? Like, would you satisfy your people? What the do they want?

[Ray Clark]

Okay. Okay.

[Ty]

Damn.

[Ray Clark]

You know, so one of the things. And this is so hard, right, because so many people, I. I asked all the, all the damn questions you wanted me to ask, but some people were like, okay, as soon as you as soon as this person started texting, why continue texting? Why not say, okay, yes, I. This sounds like it's a possibility, right? You fear for your. Your daughter. Why not say, okay, I'm gonna reach out to Dawn. I'm gonna reach out and see if we can get a hold of Brennan Theresa and. And try to get this resolved or whatever the case is. Right. Or not. Or not reach out to Brennan Teresa, and maybe go to police officials or whatever the case.

[Ty]

Well, at first, for one, there wasn't a lot to happen at first that required, I think, police intervention. At first, it was a very slow, dragging thing. But we reached out to Don and told her that early on, we're like, dawn, we're getting these random messages. We're getting random phone calls, we're getting, you know, spam stuff that people are texting from, weird numbers off of apps, whatever, whatever. And. And. And, you know, I feel like when we asked dawn and told dawn about it, it was very kind of nonsense. Like, well, you know, yeah, people are crazy. And so I was like, okay. And then. So I feel like. I think people just thought we just, like, were messaging for months without saying anything to anyone else. And it's like, well, I thought Don.

[Kate]

No, it was very first person to.

[Ty]

Reach out to, obviously.

[Kate]

And I think people need to remember, too, at that time when this was. When this all started too, like, our adoption was already closed. Like, we weren't speaking, you know, with Teresa or Brandon. Like, our literally, our only outlet was. Was Dawn.

[Ty]

At the time, we couldn't even text them. We were blocked. They wouldn't get it. So. Or else we would have been like, hey, we're getting messages from some weird.

[Kate]

And I think, like, people that aren't affiliated with adoption and understand how the dynamics work, unfortunately. And if you just don't understand what you're not a part of, I guess. And when we were getting these things told to us about supposedly what was happening, who we. And plus, also, you have to remember, too, that when these people are telling us things before, the stuff that we were nervous about, it has. It's somebody that knows her. I still do this day. I'm like, it's somebody that knows her. It's somebody that was involved in the community. Nobody else would know these things is that this person knew. And so when she was telling us these scary things that we were kind of nervous about, it was like, I wanted to. Part of you is like, I need to know more information to see if this is fully true.

[Ty]

Right?

[Kate]

Is this accurate? Is this. What's going on? So of course it was like, well, I'm going to try to keep this person talking to try to decipher, like, is this legitimate or is this not so?

[Ty]

I mean, honestly, it comes out and I would.

[Kate]

We would text on. I'm like, don, you know, is Carly, you know, has. Has you. Have you heard anything? Has she been like, have they saying, like, she's been acting out or having a hard time or, like, trying to.

[Ty]

Kind of confirm or validate anything, you.

[Kate]

Know, have they said, like, has there been issues in the home and stuff? And dawn would, you know, say, like, no, I haven't heard anything. You know, all these things. And then I'm like, well, then you. In your mind, you think, well, like, maybe they're not telling Don. These things are going on.

[Ty]

You know, she's not telling her parents, right? Yeah, you kind of play mental gymnastics. It's hard. But I. I do feel like any. Any natural parent hearing things would immediately go to action mode. When you don't have access to do action mode, you go the next best thing, which is, okay, I'm gonna try to get as much information as possible. I'm gonna reach out to dawn simultaneously try to see what's figured, whatever. And I feel like people don't understand that we were very outspoken about, hey, this is what's happening. So it wasn't like we were talking. I think people think we were talking for months, Months or months and months or whatever. And then not saying to anyone outside of us.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

It was like, no, you're like, hey, I thought for sure dawn was the best person, the only person that would have even been able to get any answers.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And then, you know, so. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, should we have. I guess it's kind of hard because I couldn't get a hold of them. If I could have talked to that. Her parents, it would have been so, oh, this would have not ever happened.

[Ray Clark]

You know what I mean?

[Kate]

And also, too, it's like when all the texting stuff was going on, there was always this part where it's like, this. There's no way in hell. Like, what kid talks like this?

[Ty]

And then they would say something kind.

[Kate]

Of, you know, and then. And then all of a sudden, they would bring something up about their lives, and it's like, but who would know that?

[Ray Clark]

And then.

[Kate]

So then we. We're thinking ourselves, like, there's no way.

[Ray Clark]

This is a kid.

[Kate]

And so we knew. We're like, well, if we keep them plugging along, like, we know it's somebody that's close because there's just things that you don't know.

[Ty]

And honestly, is that right or wrong? I mean. Okay, listen, I. It wasn't. It was.

[Ray Clark]

Do you feel like that's like a muddy it is area?

[Ty]

And for people that aren't in adoption, it's extra money.

[Kate]

Like, and for people that aren't, you know, first parents, birth parents, whatever you want to call. And you don't understand the PTSD relinquishment. You don't understand the PTSD of your adoption getting closed and all these promises not kept to you. You're not going to understand what your mind will do to you. And also, like, want to know.

[Ty]

Yeah, and you're also not. And also, you don't understand how common it is in the adoptee space community, how intense evangelism is and how intense certain things that are damaging and concerning. So, like, when these things are being said to you, most people, I think would be, oh, yeah, right. But it's like, no, when you know the culture and, you know, the commonality of a lot of adoptees telling you things that are. I mean, you. You have no. You can't fight your parental instinct to protect or whatever. You know what I mean? And I think you said something. You mentioned something. Oh, yeah, man. One of my nieces. I mean, I'd be like. Like, what the. You know, what the going on?

[Kate]

And.

[Ty]

And. And so, yeah, I mean, I think.

[Kate]

You know, so for the normal person that's not involved in the dynamic of.

[Ty]

It, you would have probably contacted a cop or something. Sure, whatever.

[Kate]

I don't know.

[Ty]

I mean, I don't know what you had done, but.

[Kate]

But also. Yeah, it's gonna look crazy. You know what I mean? It's gonna look nuts because it is nuts.

[Ty]

Yeah, it is. This whole adoption space is nuts. But I will say full accountability for being wrong. Should the conversation have happened that long that they did? Absolutely not. But I think it was a. And I say this multiple times, many times they can hear or not. It was. It was just the desperation. That's what happened. I mean, it was. And I think desperation, it has a root cause. Why was I so. Why are we so desperate to. To make sure these things were not happening? And it was like, well, if I had access to information, we could. None of this would have happened. So I think it comes down to, like, just that fear. I mean, honestly, the desperation for. For to make sure everything was. Was safe and good and. And whatever that she was.

[Ray Clark]

Okay, so let's say, right. Because you guys do not believe that this was a minor.

[Kate]

No.

[Ray Clark]

Okay, so there was a time on Kale's podcast, right, where I believe she said that, like, someone was, like, trying to message her son or something. Right. And you guys had said, like, oh, that's like. That's weird. Would you guys see yourselves in this. In that same circumstance with this minor?

[Ty]

Oh, yeah. Like, it being weird.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Oh, yeah. We've never said texting this fake minor was not weird. All of it. Very weird. Never should have happened. I mean, it's very weird.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

But what do you do? What do you do? I mean, could we handle it better? I think we could. Yeah. Of course. Were we wrong? Absolutely. Was it warranted? Based off of the intensity of. Of where she's raised in the culture? I think it was warranted not to keep texting the minor, but to keep trying to make sure the safety was in place and everything was happening. And I think it's.

[Kate]

And also to see, like, is this person truly as close as they say?

[Ty]

Yeah. Right. So I. It's one of those things where it's like a catfish trying to figure out, but trying to maintain safety while you're catfishing, because. Whatever. But I think it's interesting because to this day, and I. And I literally have the messages of like, hey, what's going on? And. And everyone in that community also believes you're catfished. So if this was true and real and everything was happened the way it happened, we would hear about it, we'd have charges against it. Something would happen.

[Ray Clark]

So you guys have, like, no charges against you?

[Kate]

Nothing.

[Ty]

Like, we never had any adults. And I think it's crazy because we never really talked about this publicly before. But so we. At this point, we're like, I don't even need to.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

But whatever. But, like, so reaching out and I made sure. I said, don, you need to confirm with me if any of this was accurate so I can do the right thing as an adult, as a father and make it right. Right. And so when she wrote back and said, no, they all say that this never happened. Like, you got catfished.

[Kate]

Pretty much. And even Don was, like, she brought up to them because Tyler was very much like, if there is a minor that is friends with Carly and her parents know, and if there's something going on, please put them in our direction.

[Ty]

Yes.

[Kate]

Because as a parent to parent, if it was a legit minor, I would apologize and say, sorry, this guy crazy. Whatever. Whatever.

[Ty]

Whatever needs to happen. Right.

[Kate]

But no, for people now to be saying like, oh, we have like a cease and desist or there's been charges pressed on us and cops are involved. All eyes, nothing.

[Ty]

And also where they. Where the hell is that even coming from?

[Kate]

I don't know.

[Ray Clark]

Listen, obviously that paperwork.

[Kate]

Yeah. I don't know. But no, that has nothing. Nothing. And it's because I'm telling you right now, I think it's an adult in the community.

[Ty]

I know it's an adult. Honestly, at first, like I said, we thought it was like maybe an older cousin because she knew something.

[Ray Clark]

Like the information.

[Ty]

Yes, it was too. So. But yeah, I, I always say, like, I'm waiting for the charges. Okay. If there was any minor involved or any minor in danger. I'm still waiting for the charges.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Where are they? And I know as parents, I'd be the. I bet it was my kid. Or we're going all in. I'm gonna.

[Kate]

Well, and also, we didn't do anything illegal, so.

[Ty]

But yeah, say what you will about it, but. Yeah, I wanted to make sure. I was like, listen, this is a rare opportunity. We get a. Yeah.

[Kate]

What else you got, Ray?

[Ty]

Yeah. Laying on.

[Ray Clark]

Well, Lamb. Yeah, I, I had that. What else were people saying? Why involve. Because remember when we were having the discussion on Tick Tock and. Or on my life, you and I.

[Ty]

And I mean, I don't remember exactly, but yeah. Refreshment.

[Ray Clark]

To be honest, my memory is like horrible, especially lies. Yeah. But there was quite. It was about your niece because you were talking about the story about how your niece. You'd gotten like, your niece to try to add Carly on social media. Yes, whatever. A lot of people were questioning why involve your niece in adding Carly in the, like, putting Carly in that position.

[Ty]

Interesting. Because I feel like for my niece as far, I was like, you know, I don't want to add her personally because I don't want her.

[Kate]

And actually, Lex was the one that was like, I will.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And she knows who I am. Like, who I. If she, you know, if she, her.

[Ty]

Profile is not as, you know, what was like, say our names.

[Ray Clark]

Like, what was the intent?

[Ty]

I guess the intent was to see if my niece could contact Carly and verify anything.

[Ray Clark]

Okay.

[Ty]

Because I think peer to peer, I'm not going to talk about it, you know, but, but, but Carly is around the same age. I, you know, because that was like.

[Ray Clark]

A lot of what was circling was, well, you're trying to get your niece to add Carly so that way you guys can stalk her.

[Ty]

Oh, okay. Listen. Okay, okay. Did I try to get My niece to do it. No, my niece brought up to me, and I said, well, absolutely, if she's. If she'll accept you and your account's not, like, not big as ours, and, you know, don't want to get Carly in trouble, if that's what was happening. Yeah, of course. Yeah, sure. Try to connect. And if you do connect, you're a peer of hers also, biological cousin. So there's a. Maybe there's an access there that could. You could verify any of this crazy okay. That we're getting. And it was. I think that was more a part of our vetting process that was available to us. I said, hey, let's do it right.

[Ray Clark]

Hey, present.

[Ty]

Not like, I don't want you to follow Carly questions.

[Kate]

And, yeah, that's.

[Ty]

No, that's crazy. But, yeah, my niece offered. I said, yeah, go for it. And I figured if.

[Kate]

And nothing ever came of it.

[Ray Clark]

Why?

[Kate]

Because we're not psychopaths being, like, pushing it. Like, hey, Lexington, Lex messenger this.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

No, it was simply like, Lex was like, I'll add her. And we were like, well, you're her cousin. If you want to add her and she adds you back, then that is what it is. And nothing ever went from that. Like, I know Lex messaged her one time, you know, like, hey, I don't know if you remember me, or whatever. And Carly read in. She didn't respond, and that's all it was.

[Ty]

Well, no, she didn't read it.

[Kate]

Oh, no, I thought she did.

[Ty]

No, she just kind of sent it. It said delivered and that, and that was it. Okay. But like I said, I. I was okay with that because I'm like, whatever, dude. Because I. I also. Because someone was like, oh, if you knew about all of our social media accounts that she had, why don't you reach out yourself? Why the hell would I do that? I would never know, because I would never want to jeopardize that freedom that she has that I didn't know if she had permission to have.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

In case she was doing a real rebellious thing. Like, my mom said, I can't Instagram, but I'm gonna have Instagram. I'm not gonna go ruin it with my blue check mark dm that could. You know, I just didn't want to risk it. So, yeah, that's the reason why my niece, you know, reach out to her.

[Ray Clark]

The last question is about Carly's singing, right? Beautiful. She sings beautifully. I've. You know, I've been sent her videos, never asked.

[Ty]

Yeah, right.

[Ray Clark]

And I was like, wow, like, she's, you know, such a beautiful young lady. Right. And you guys had mentioned this was the way that you guys were able to hear her sing, right. On Sundays.

[Ty]

How.

[Ray Clark]

How did you guys find this? And how did it feel when the world kind of, in a sense, took that?

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

You found it.

[Ty]

Well, I actually found, because someone from her community reached out to me on an Instagram message, which, I don't know. It's so weird because we get so many thousands of message requests, right?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And I don't know why this one, for some reason I clicked on.

[Kate]

On.

[Ty]

It was just crazy, but I did. And she said, I'm so sorry for what's happening to you. I just want you to know that she is beautiful. She sings amazing. And if you didn't know, I wanted. She said in verbatim, it feels wrong for me to be able to witness this and you not be able to witness this because it's so beautiful. And I was like, holy, what is this? And then it was a YouTube clip, and I was like, I don't know. I know what the hell it was.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And then I clicked on it, and it was her singing Worship. And I was like, holy. And then I literally was like, oh, my God. Like, I kept. I said, thank you so much. No idea what you've done for me. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Ray Clark]

How long ago was this?

[Ty]

Oh, this was a long time ago. Yeah, a while ago. So I was watching her, like, a lot. You know, I watched every Sunday, Right. And not every. She didn't always perform every Sunday, so I had to sit there and wait.

[Ray Clark]

It was like, the host.

[Ty]

Yeah. Like, oh, she ain't doing. It's that other brown hair girl.

[Ray Clark]

Whatever. Shut it off.

[Ty]

You know, I don't care about anything else. But yeah. And so I was super excited because that. And that was when I first told Kate. I said, oh, my God, like, here she is singing.

[Kate]

And he sent it to me, and it took me a while to watch it because I was just. It brings up a lot of emotion for me. And so, you know, we kept that to ourselves. So we didn't blast it all the Internet. We didn't say anything. But every once in a while, some Sundays, we. We would watch her sing, you know, and I. And it's just because it's. She's beautiful at it, you know, and we love to watch her in that. And she looks so happy. And.

[Ty]

And we also didn't feel like it was anything wrong because it was something. Right? Yeah. And like. And I And even the woman who wrote me or whatever that's in the community, she said, you know, they all know this. To televise in the sermon. It's encouraged. Please share this with everyone and let everyone tune in. Everyone tune in to the church. So I didn't feel like it was violating anything. Right. Especially if I wasn't saying anything about it. I'm just, like, watching quietly on Sunday, my coffee. You know what I mean? So that was the first time that we ever got to actually see her, like, physically in, like, a long time.

[Kate]

And I think for us, it was special, too, because there's been years, like, you know, knowing that she does different things, like singing. And, you know, I. You know, and I've asked in the past, like, I've asked her parents, like, I would love, you know, to see a video of her singing if you could send me a video of her singing. And, you know, like, they would never send me things or just ignore my text messages and stuff like that. And so it. To see her staying and her do it so beautifully, and it was just something special.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

You know, it was a different form of connection to her. Like just hearing.

[Ty]

We kept intimate to ourselves.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Well, I guess to. To piggyback off that. I'm sorry, There is one more question. When you guys aired your last episode, Right. In the last episode, it was Carly singing.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And you got a lot of criticism because you had asked, can I just watch this privately? Right. And then watch it filmed. And a lot of your viewers were upset because they wanted to see the raw emotion. They wanted to be able to also hear Harley Singh and what she had to say.

[Kate]

Yeah. I think for me, you know, in that moment, it was, sit down. Dr. Drew wants to talk to you. Cool. He's got an update. Cool. And, you know, he brought it up like, hey, we have it. I want to play it for you right now. I stopped him in that moment.

[Ty]

He said, play it, because we know what it was at this point.

[Kate]

Yeah. Oh, I have it. I have for you, and I want to play it right now. And I stopped him at that moment because you have to remember, like, people, you might watch me on tv, but this is my real life. These are my real feelings and my real emotions. I have three other girls upstairs at that moment. And just a week prior to that, I watched her singing for the first time because Tyler sent it to me and I sat on it.

[Ray Clark]

That was the YouTube.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

I sent it to her for a while.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. And I remember you saying that she. She was like, really emotional.

[Ty]

Like, no, it was. Yeah.

[Kate]

So, you know, a week prior to us sitting down with Dr. Drew saying this, I watched it, and I had. It brought up so many emotions for me. Ptsd, Like, I was literally feeling all these feelings and emotions, and if people. If you don't understand ptsd, you won't understand. But it's like, it puts. Puts you right in the spot where you were, and you just feel all these intense feelings and emotions. And I was super wrecked, like, horrible mental health day. Just super emotional. Couldn't stop crying, like, all the things. So then I, you know, whatever. I process that. I get better, whatever. And then a week later, I sit down, and Dr. Drew says, I want to play it for you right now. I was like, whoa, hold up. I have three girls upstairs. Like, I don't know how this is going to affect me emotionally. It's beautiful, and I love it, and I appreciate, and I hold on to those, but it's hard sometimes, and I. You don't know how it's gonna hit you. And so I was like, I want to be able to process it first, because I can't just be a wreck, and I have to be a mom, too, you know? Like, I don't know. It was just very intense, and I wasn't expecting it, so I was like, whoa, whoa. Can I please listen to it and process my feelings and emotions first? And then. Absolutely. I will play it. I will play it. And then, you know, we just got to talking about it more and more and then come to find out they were like, well, you can't have it unless you listen to it on tv. They're not gonna let you have it at all. And I was like, wow. Well, if she really wanted me to have this gift, and then you're not gonna give it to me. Like, that hurt my heart again, you know, on top of that. And the point I was trying to get to is that, gosh, damn it.

[Ty]

Well, I think. I think it's important to note that the first time you ever heard a scene was devastating. So, yeah, I think it was important.

[Kate]

Oh, no.

[Ty]

But then create the agency right for yourself.

[Kate]

Right? But then as we talked about it more and more, then my mind kind of got into, like, does she want me to play it on national television? Does Carly herself want me to? Because there's no communication at this point. There's no nothing. And so I remember telling our executive, I looked right at him, and I said, if you get her on the phone right now, after I listen to. And you pro And I process it or whatever. I said, if you get her on the phone right now and she says she wants it played and I hear her say it, I will blast it all over for her.

[Ty]

Yeah. Because we told Larry, like, she can say it to you. I just need confirmation. Like, listen, just get on the phone, confirm to you executive producer, and then I will. You know what I mean?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

It wasn't like Kate was like, let me talk to her.

[Ray Clark]

Brandon and Teresa do have communication with production, right?

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Okay.

[Ty]

That's how they set this whole thing up. And I think people don't understand originally this was supposed to be a behind the scenes. They were. They plan on going to her house, filming her, going to like having her family time, like literally going and filming her whole life and day in the life of them.

[Ray Clark]

Right.

[Ty]

And when that didn't happen, they compromised on this song idea. And so they were talking to production the whole time without us even knowing it. Which I thought was really. We felt it was ironic that you have us blocked and you won't talk to us about the situation, but you're willing to talk to executive producers and set up a whole thing without. It just felt really.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Bombard. It felt trappy. It felt weird if the vibes fell off. I don't know.

[Kate]

Yeah. And so then that part sucked. When I was like, just let me process it first and then come to find out, it was like, nope, you can't have it unless you listen to it right now. And I was like, what? I felt kind of like a spit in the face. And I was like. And. But then I remember, you know, somebody Tyler said, sent me some video of something about like how adopt. Some adoptive parents just won't ever understand what was it? Because they have never really like, get like given birth or what was that thing you sent me where it was like they never fully understand the feelings.

[Ty]

Well, they can't fully understand a birth mom because they've never been a birth mom, which means they never birthed their. So that you can't understand and the.

[Kate]

Feelings and the emotions and the hardships. Because I guess when MTV went back to them there, I guess their kind of reaction was like, well, why? Why would it be hard? And I'm like. And to me, being a birthday, I'm like, how can you not if you've.

[Ray Clark]

Never been through it, then you wouldn't understand how it could be so hard. Right.

[Kate]

Like it brings up things and I can't explain it. It's just. And like I said, it's like something can be two things at the same time. It can be beautiful and magical and means so much to me, but also super hard and sad at the same time.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And I think it's because it brings up the emotions of, like, wow, she's so beautiful and she's so talented and she's so great. But I'm missing out on that person. I'm missing out on this beautiful girl that's about to be a woman. Like, you know, it brings. It's just.

[Ty]

Especially when we've asked for years to get any kind of her. Of her playing a violin or any instruments, and it was always met with resistance and. No. And so. Yeah. I think. I think one thing people don't understand. They also understand that backside of production either.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Doing our whole reality TV show is different. We have, you know, things behind the scenes and, you know, them having us coming downstairs thinking it was gonna be a quick little update from Dr. Drew, and let alone. It's not a quick little update, it's a whole thing. And it was like. I think it's interesting that people are so mad that all K asked for was one moment off camera when I've literally.

[Kate]

I've shared everything.

[Ty]

She has shared. She's open her legs and pushed kids out on national tv. She's given her all to you. Like, literally. And I'm talking like audience members. Production.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

This woman has given her all to you. Give her three minutes of agency, of. Of control of being able to process something.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And then she's willing to go out and do it how everyone else wants it to be done. The fact that you're. That she gets so much hate for. She didn't refuse to listen to it. She didn't not accept it. She just said, I just need a minute to process it first. And it was like that meeting that was so much hate. Because you feel entitled to watch raw emotion. I. I don't. I don't. Does that make. Yeah, like, I'm like, people are looking at. From the wrong angle. Well. Well, we want to see the raw emotion. Well, this is my real life.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And if you believe after all this years of being vulnerable, getting criticized and heavily hated, whatever, that you're entitled to see this raw emotion is. And it's. You don't deserve it. Sorry. You know, so I just thought that was really interesting how, you know, you got so much. She got so much hate for. It didn't make any sense to me, Especially when she.

[Kate]

That's what I mean. I'm like, you know, if you're not a first parent or you're never going to understand unless you fit. Unless you go through with it and go. You know, you're not gonna understand.

[Ty]

And the reason why Teresa was like, you know the reason why she was like, I don't. I can't imagine why this would be so hard. That's the reason why. Because you've never done it. So I don't expect you to understand this. I do expect you to have a little bit of sympathy and empathy and compassion and try to understand.

[Kate]

Let's send her to my house for six months. I'm gonna cut off contact completely. You're not gonna know about her. Nothing. And then I'm gonna send you a video of her. You're gonna get emotional.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Kate]

As her mother.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

You know what I mean?

[Ray Clark]

Like, so.

[Kate]

Yeah. Because you. It. You don't understand.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And that's it.

[Ray Clark]

That's why, I guess. Well, those were all the questions. Were they on my end?

[Ty]

Because we got some questions for you. Right.

[Kate]

Oh, no. Yes.

[Ray Clark]

I know. It's kind of weird to be in the hot seat.

[Kate]

Is it?

[Ty]

But I thought it was important. I wanted to. Like, this is important.

[Ray Clark]

It is. Because it was like so much like hate and so many, like, shame on you. Shame on you for not shaming them. And I was like, it's ridiculous.

[Ty]

Double down on shame. Stupid.

[Ray Clark]

You know, Like, I'm not.

[Kate]

Not.

[Ray Clark]

I'm not a judge and a jury.

[Kate]

They want you to be, though.

[Ray Clark]

They want me to be angry because they're angry. And I. I just. I can't. Sorry.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

I just can't.

[Ty]

Well, I respect you for. For maintaining your moral integrity with it. Because I think a lot of people, especially in this creating on tick tock space, they can get lost in it.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And they can get. You know what I mean? So. Yeah. I just feel like that I just want to give you the opportunity put us in the hot seat now. Now I want to be like, okay, Ray, how many siblings you have where you raise? Give a little bit of a whoop background on who you are. Yep.

[Kate]

Turned around on you. No.

[Ray Clark]

So. So I was raised in California. It's a small town in California. Agricultural. Nothing there.

[Ty]

Farmer.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

Farming.

[Ty]

Farming.

[Ray Clark]

Nothing there. I have seven siblings.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Ray Clark]

So I have.

[Kate]

So wait, so there's eight of you all together?

[Ray Clark]

Eight all together. Okay. So my dad, it's me, my. My brother, my twin brothers, and my little sister. And then on my mom's side, it's me, my two sisters and my little brother. And so. And I'M the oldest.

[Ty]

Wow. Oh, damn.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, so my, my, my parents got together, so my dad was 21, but they were married when they, when they had me. Right. So they were still very young. Ended up having me. I don't really know too much of a story. It's unfortunate because my mom's gone and so all my mom ever told me, my, she never bashed my dad. Like, she never did any of those things. She was just like, you know, I really loved your dad. Like, I was really in love with him. And, you know, we tried to have kids and we had a lot of miscarriages. My name means queens. My name is Raina.

[Ty]

Yeah, there you go.

[Ray Clark]

My name is Raina. My name means queen in Spanish. And she was like, I just, you know, you're. You were the queen. You were the. You made it.

[Kate]

Yeah, right.

[Ray Clark]

And so, so they had me. They didn't work out. And then when they were in the process of getting divorced and have. And splitting custody, my dad got full custody because my mom didn't show up to court. My grandpa was there, My mom's dad was there, and I, I loved him to pieces, but he was there. But the judge was like, well, it's better for her to live with her parent. And so they gave custody to my dad, but my dad never raised me. My grandparents raised me.

[Kate]

Oh, so your dad has custody, but you lived in the grandparents home, like.

[Ray Clark]

With your grandparents, right? Yeah.

[Ty]

Why did dad not raise. I don't understand.

[Ray Clark]

I don't know. He didn't raise any of his kids.

[Ty]

Oh, really?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

So he just wanted the custody.

[Ray Clark]

And then that was my assumption, is that he didn't want to deal with child support or whatever. Maybe. Okay, right, Listen, maybe he thought, like, well, I don't want to give custody back to her mom because maybe if, if she gets better or whatever, she could take her again and maybe get back into drugs again. Like, who knows? I. I don't, I don't know. But the fact that he got custody of me and then never raised me.

[Ty]

Yeah, right.

[Ray Clark]

Literally.

[Kate]

And your mom didn't try coming, like.

[Ray Clark]

She would come to visit, so she.

[Kate]

Never tried fighting again for you?

[Ray Clark]

No. Because she was an addict. Yes, she was an addict and stayed an addiction and died an addict. My mom was kind. Like, my mom was kind. And it's really sad because my mom was abandoned by her mom as a child. You know, my, my grandma was white, my grandpa was black. Right. Back in those days.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Couldn't have those two mixed. Right. And so my mom was Raised primarily with my grandfather. And so she had a lot of demons that she had to try to fight, you know, and, and I don't excuse it, but I do think that had she had more resources, I think if therapy was a natural thing back then, I think she could have gotten the help that she needed. She tried to get better multiple times, but it just never happened for her.

[Ty]

So when, so how old were you when she passed?

[Ray Clark]

I was completing my first anniversary, so she passed away about five years ago.

[Ty]

Oh, okay. So this was, this means relatively recent.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, she passed away around Covet.

[Ty]

Oh, wow. Okay. So. So growing up though, at your grandparents house, you didn't see her a lot, obviously.

[Ray Clark]

No, she had come every once in a while. Anytime that she came to the door, my nana always let her say hi. She was never allowed in, but she was. I was allowed to go and say hi to her and stuff like that. So that was never a problem. And then she and my, my grandpa actually had like a good, like co parenting because if my grandpa wanted to have me for the summer for a couple weeks, she was always like, yeah, go ahead. And he was my favorite person and he passed away when I was 18, so.

[Ty]

Oh, okay.

[Ray Clark]

It was, it just totally sucked. But. Yeah, you know, but so she would come.

[Kate]

But she would try to come and visit you?

[Ray Clark]

She did, she did come and try to visit when she was. Well, you know, but we also lived in the same like area, so.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

When my, when my siblings, when she and my siblings had lived in another town was like 30 minutes away, she was, she wasn't great, but she was. Okay.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And around that time was when. And I was older, I was about, I want to say I was maybe 20 and I would visit her often and be able to talk to her. Sometimes I don't, like I said, my memory is horrible.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So I don't remember a lot of those conversations. But that's also because my mom didn't want to relive her past, you know.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Kate]

So she didn't want to talk about it much. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And I didn't blame her. Yeah.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

But when she did, all she did was just have kind words for people, you know?

[Kate]

So you remember being kind. That's. Yeah.

[Ty]

Which is a beautiful. I mean, despite the, you know, obviously the, the trauma that comes with being a child of an addict, you did have that and you still remain. You, you keep that image of her that she was kind, which is really important.

[Ray Clark]

Well, no, my, like literally my mom was on the streets and willing to give the Clothes on her back. Like, that was the person that she was, you know, that's how I choose to remember her, because that's all that I have of her. Wow.

[Ty]

Well, I think it's a testament to your character as far as how you present yourself even today. I mean, when you think about it, addict or not, homeless people or not, I mean, if. If they're willing to, you know, not have a house and also give us little clothes off their back. I mean, everything, everyone can live with that. I mean, that is. That is amazing way to treat people. It's amazing way to go through life. Did your mom and your dad just completely stop talking to each other all together?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, they just completely stop.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

So, yeah. Yeah, it was weird. It's like my mom never even got rid of her married last name. Like she stayed. Yeah, like she. Yeah, like she told me, like I remember telling you, like, I'm always gonna love your dad. Like, I'm always gonna be in love with your dad, you know, and I just thought it was weird because I was like, why?

[Kate]

Like, you know, but.

[Ray Clark]

But she was like, I. I loved your dad. I'm always gonna love your dad. And, you know.

[Ty]

So you never heard her talk bad about your dad?

[Ray Clark]

Never.

[Ty]

Okay, well, that's. That's. Yeah, never. I think that's.

[Kate]

Did your dad come in and out a lot when you were being.

[Ray Clark]

Yes. So when I was being raised, my dad would come for like a little bit, like surf on the couch or stay in the spare bed and then he would leave or like he had gotten married. And so it was after me and after my. After my brother, he had met his ex wife, they had twins and, you know, he was married not long. He was married like a cup a couple years, and then ended up getting divorced and whatever. But even then, it was just always back and forth. And my dad always gave me like empty promises, you know, like, oh, I'm always, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna take care of you. I'm going to raise you. And for me, it was always a hope of, oh, like, maybe this is the time. Like, maybe he's gonna. And it just never happened. And it was the same with my mom too. Like, I'd be.

[Kate]

I was actually having this discussion with.

[Ray Clark]

My sisters the other day because I was like, you know, I remember being a little girl and looking at the stars, like from my bedroom and just being like, oh, I wonder if my mom is looking at these stars. Like, I'm looking at the stars. I wonder. Like that.

[Kate]

That's Sad.

[Ray Clark]

You know, I love her, but, you know, like. But. And I'm. I'm so sad for that little girl because that little girl wanted to be loved. And I was a very affectionate little girl. I'm. I was very emotional still. And, you know, all I wanted was just to feel loved.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And I never felt loved loved.

[Kate]

Were your grandparents good at making you feel loved?

[Ray Clark]

No, I love my nana. Like, I love her. That is my mom to me. Like, she raised me, and she loved me the best way that she could love me. She was just. She was very tough. Very tough. But every once in a while, like, I remember, I'd be like, nah, I'm gonna give you a hug. And she'd be like. Like, no. And I would, like, still go hug her anyway. She would say, no.

[Ty]

She would say no.

[Ray Clark]

She'd be like, no. And I. I would go in anyway.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

For the kill. And I would, like, go in and hug her. And she'd. She'd be like, okay. You know, like, okay. And then. And then that was it. And she. She tried. And even now, like, as an adult, she's in her 90s, and I just recently went to go visit her, and, you know, she's so much more affectionate.

[Ty]

It. Oh, really?

[Ray Clark]

Now? Oh, wow. Yeah. And she and I have had so many discussions about me growing up and how I felt about stuff, because I never was able to have those discussions. And as an adult, I just was like, no, I'm. I'm standing firm on how I feel, like. And how you made me feel.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And she apologized, which is never. She apologized. And, you know, and she just has. Has all of this love to give, and I think it's because maybe she just wasn't.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Loved.

[Ty]

Right. You know, Justin didn't know how to, like, show it and stuff like that. Because.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Kate]

When.

[Ray Clark]

When you don't. When you're not given love.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

How do you know how to. But for whatever reason, I. I just had the instinct.

[Kate]

I was.

[Ty]

Yeah, you're like, I want a hug.

[Ray Clark]

Come hug me.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Like, show me that you love me. Like, that's all I wanted.

[Ty]

Did you find that desire to be loved and have that affection? Did you. Did you find that to have any effect on your growing up? Like. Like, girlfriends, boyfriend, whatever? I don't know what your experience was.

[Kate]

Like, yeah.

[Ray Clark]

So I'll tell you guys. Like, so growing up, I had a crush on a boy, and I had a crush on a girl, and I was like, I don't know what these are.

[Ty]

How Old were you?

[Ray Clark]

How old was. I was like seven.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

So, yeah, I was like seven.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

There was a girl who was like a huge bully. And for whatever reason, I was like, she's so pretty. You know, Like. And you know how they would say, like, oh, like, if they bully you, it's because they like you? I was like, maybe she likes me.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

You know, I'll still try to be her friend anyway. And as I got older, I was like, gosh, she's such a. But I. You know, I just. And as I got older. So I was raised very old school. Right. Because I was raised with people that were born in, like, the 20s and 30s, and I was raised Catholic. And so you can't be gay.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

You can't. There was no way in hell, like, I wasn't allowed to date anyone that was of the opposite or of the same sex. And I wasn't allowed to date anyone that was a person of color.

[Ty]

What?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

How does that work?

[Ray Clark]

Because, well, it's ironic, but see, growing up, to them, it was, you're not black, you're Mexican.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

Which is not true. I'm white, I'm black, and I'm Mexican.

[Ty]

Right. But interesting though, why. How does. It's almost what, being Mexicans better than me?

[Ray Clark]

Not necessarily.

[Ty]

Like, so from their viewpoints, being black.

[Ray Clark]

From their viewpoint was bad. Right. Because like I said, she was raised in the 30s, and when you went to school, they segregated you.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

From white kids. And so when you are mix in with black kids. Well, now I'm here because of you. Right. It start. It's like a. You don't realize it, but it's like this little hatred, which is still kind of funny because my not is like, loves Denzel, but. But do you know what I'm saying? Like, she. It was like the culture. Yeah. She didn't hate black people.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

But she thought it was easier for me to say that I was Mexican because it would make an easier life for me interesting. If that makes sense.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Which is hard because I was raised in a community that is predominantly white.

[Ty]

Right.

[Kate]

So that's already not easy.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Because I'm going to a private school and I. And by the way, no, it's not because we were rich. It was because my nana worked for the school.

[Ty]

Oh, okay.

[Ray Clark]

So I got to go. Because she was working there, but it was a predominantly white school mixed with a few Mexicans. Yeah, no black people. I remember there was like one black girl when I was like, in the third grade, and I was like, oh, people like, you know.

[Kate]

Right, right.

[Ray Clark]

But then she, she didn't last long. She was, she was gone. And so, yes, I grew up with my black side of the family too, but it just wasn't the same.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

And so it's. Growing up, it was, you can't bring home a girl and you can't bring home a black person because your life is going to be harder. So I dated boys because that's what I was raised to do on the side. I was hooking up with girls.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

But.

[Ty]

Oh, wow, okay, so you're.

[Kate]

So you're actually having to hide that part.

[Ty]

Yeah. You're living the duality of the closet. Right.

[Ray Clark]

You know?

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And it was, it was tough. But going back to our original discussion, it was hard. Relationships were hard because I was searching for love and I wasn't being loved. I was being physically abused, mentally abused, verbally abused. And I thought, this is, this is what I deserve. Right? This is love. This is what I deserve because this is what love is. And it took me, it took me until I met my wife to understand what love was. Because my wife, I would, I would ask for permit or I would say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And she was like, why?

[Ty]

Right? Stop. Like, chill out.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah, you don't. Sorry for what? You know, Or I, she would do things for me and I was like, oh, okay. Or I would ask for permission and she's like, why the you asking me, girl? Go, do you, you know, or worrying about pleasing. And she was like, at that point she was like, you need to see a therapist. Like, you know, you, you need to.

[Ty]

So did she inspire you to go to therapy?

[Ray Clark]

She did.

[Ty]

Wow.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Because she was like, this is not healthy. Like, you are loved. You know, you are loved. I do love you. You know, you're this. And she tells me like, you're this amazing person. I love you. I love who you are. I love how you are. Otherwise I wouldn't have married you.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ty]

But you have a hard time accepting it.

[Ray Clark]

But you have a hard time accepting that.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

And so I saw like three therapists until I saw my, my now therapist. Cuz I was like, listen girl, I need someone who's going to give it to me straight. Don't beat around the bush. Don't tell me what you think. I want to hear. Be straight up. And she is. And I love her for it. And she has helped me be able to heal the little girl in me by. And it sounds weird because she's Like, I know this is going to sound weird.

[Kate]

It always sounds weird when you first hear.

[Ray Clark]

She was like. But when that little girl in you, right? Because no matter what, you still have that, that little person. She was like that little girl in you. And when she's feeling anxious or when she's like, scared, it's okay to kind of talk to yourself. Talk to her.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And give her a hug. Yeah, give her a hug. Give her hug.

[Kate]

No. I remember when I first heard that when I was going to therapy and I was like, that is the most woo I've ever heard in my life.

[Ray Clark]

Some crazy, right?

[Kate]

When you, like, dig in and you really learn about how your inner child and how it can affect you in your adult life and the things that you do. And it's like, oh, well, that's kind.

[Ty]

Of why I always say, I'm like, dude, us adults are really just children pretending, growing up in bodies to pretending to be adults, how we think adults should act. But really inside, we're all. Our inner child's always inside operating the system, you know, it is. You can't control it.

[Ray Clark]

And even now, like, even to this day, there's still times where, like, my brain is like, like, well, no, you. You have to do it this way. Because if you don't do it this way and I have to take a moment, like, I have to take a step back and be like, I don't have to do it right now. I. I have to get it done. We don't have to get it done right now.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

You know, and it was mainly because, like, growing up, my nana was like, it's got to get done. It's got to get done. Come on, what are you doing? It's got to get done. And so I'm used to, oh, my God, I have to, you know, I have to, have to get it done. I have to. Or I'm gonna get in trouble or whatever. And so now as an adult, it's, you can get it done, you will get it done.

[Ty]

Do you have a hard time pausing being busy? Like, because I think, I think our generation actually is a problem where we glamorize hustle culture, we glamorize side hustles and being constantly busy and having three jobs, two jobs, whatever, and these business ventures and all that stuff. And it's like, but the reality and the in the goal of life is to work more. I don't think so.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

And I think that it's weird that we've become so obsessed with like. And I think it's affecting people because how, like, you obviously felt the need, like, I had to be going, and if I'm not, go, go, go. I have to sit here and sitting here, being still, and. And it's. It's almost like it's triggering.

[Ray Clark]

Yes. There was a moment where I sat down because I. I had text my wife, and I was like, just so you know, like, I'm not doing anything today. Even then, I still did something, but it was hard for me.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

I felt like I was being lazy. I felt like I wasn't being productive, and I. It was. It's hard, you know, or even sleeping in how some people can, like, sleep in. I envy it.

[Kate]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

God damn it. I really. I truly envy it because I want to be able to just be like, it's cool. Yeah. You know, and my brain won't let me.

[Kate]

Maybe one day you will, though, because I feel like, you know, you're raised a certain way. So I mean, it. It's not just a few years and everything changes.

[Ty]

Right.

[Kate]

It's a lifelong work of just trying to unravel all of the things that we were raised with. And.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

I just feel like, though, for you, like, growing up, like, you know, okay, mom and dad are not around. Grandma. Grandma raising me Catholic. I'm fighting. I'm gay, but I'm not supposed to be, like. I mean, that whole. Even just that alone is like, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. And I all. So I wanted to ask, what was it like? When did you. Did you come out to your grandparents? Did you just bring home a girl one day? How did they find out? So your family find out? I guess I should say so.

[Ray Clark]

I was living in Arizona by that time, and I am in my late 20s. So my best friend.

[Ty]

Oh, wow. That's the late 20s.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Holy.

[Ty]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

Wow. So my best friend was like, you need to. You need to leave. Because I was getting very depressed. I was drinking a lot. I was, like, at the bar all the time, partying, coming home drunk. Didn't care. Did it the next day. And it was just so bad. And at that point, I was pretty much sleeping all day. Not the normal me at all. And my best friend, who was stationed in Arizona, she came, she went literally at my door, like, at my nana's door, was like, get up and pack your bags.

[Ty]

Wow.

[Ray Clark]

Like, I'm. You're coming with me. And I was like, yeah, but, you know, I'm like, I'm not ready to leave. I don't give a pack your. And let's go.

[Ty]

Where were you guys going to Arizona, baby. Oh, my God.

[Ray Clark]

That's crazy.

[Kate]

What a good friend, though.

[Ray Clark]

She. That's my best friend. And so she. We drove. We drove out there and I'm forever thankful to her for that. But that year I had like a full on relationship with a girl and she was like, way out of the closet, right? And I wasn't yet. And something she had told me was like, you don't. You don't have to. We don't have to be together. Right? We don't have to be together, but I cannot be with you if you cannot be who you are.

[Ty]

Oh, okay. So she was okay.

[Ray Clark]

You know, like, she was like, there's no rush for you, like.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

If that.

[Ty]

But I can't do this. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

I'm. I'm comfortable with who I am. I don't. I can't be a secret. I've. I've been there already.

[Ty]

I can't go back in the closet with j.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And so I was like, I need to tell my family because. And it. There wasn't any pressure. It was just more like. But it's. It's true. I can't keep living this right lie. So I call my aunt first. That's. She's my godmother. Like, that's the person I. I went to with all my troubles, like, everything. And so I. I called her and I told her and she was like, look, if. And she's like, like, she's religious, still goes to church, right? But she was like, look, if you're still the person that we all raise you to be, if you're not hurting anyone else, just be who you are, right?

[Kate]

Then who cares? Right? So everybody should react.

[Ty]

Yeah. Literally everybody. Yes. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And I. I was scared shitless, right? Like, did you tell your nana yet? And I was like, no. And she was like, well, you're going to have to tell her.

[Ty]

You know, can you tell her?

[Ray Clark]

I don't want. And so she. But she was like, you know, just. Just be honest. So I called my. My Nana and I tell her, and she goes, oh. And I said, okay. And she was like, okay. Well, I got to go. And I was like, okay. And we didn't talk. Talk for a few months.

[Ty]

Oh, really?

[Ray Clark]

And I was like, oh, my God. Like, I lost my mom. Like, right.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

You know, like, I. I was like in panic. And three months later, she calls me. She's like, why haven't you called me? Because I I would call, like, I. I call her every day before that, you know? So three months later, she goes, you haven't called me. You're like, oh, why haven't you called me? And I was like, I thought you hated me.

[Ty]

Oh.

[Ray Clark]

I was like, you, dude, you still want to talk to me? She goes, yeah, I raised you, didn't I?

[Ty]

Oh.

[Ray Clark]

And I. And that was her way of saying, like, I. I love you.

[Ty]

I love you. Yes.

[Ray Clark]

And I was just like, okay. And it's just stayed that way ever since. Yeah.

[Ty]

Wow. But I think it's. I think it's crazy. I mean, 20. That's a long time. I mean, which I. Which I. My best friend, she set up my wedding. I mean, our whole lives. And I actually was just talking to her a couple weeks ago, and. And she was like, you know, she'll call me about problems that she's having or whatever. And I was like, have you ever thought about the fact that you. You know, you. Because she. She was an addict. She recovered. Addict, whatever. I tried helping her get into rehab multiple times and all that kind of stuff, and I never left her socks. I just knew. I just knew that there was more to her stuff. And I. And I asked her, said, do you ever think about the fact that you spent so much of your life hiding? And not only hiding, but having to kind of act to everyone else that this is how it is, that you actually lost and detached from who you really were? So that way, when it finally came crashing down, or you have to accept who I am, you didn't even know who that was. What. And how do you. How do you operate?

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

At that age. You know, and that. I mean, because you obviously had identity by then. You know what I mean? You thought you knew who you were. You know what I'm saying? It's a really big, big heavy thing that I think a lot of people don't really understand how profound it is to finally do that, you know?

[Ray Clark]

Would I go back? No.

[Ty]

Right, right, right.

[Ray Clark]

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go back. I. I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't go back to dating guys for sure.

[Kate]

You don't like dick Ray, Come on, now. Just concerned, you know?

[Ty]

I tried it. I tried my hardest.

[Ray Clark]

And it's so funny because, like, my sisters, you know, they have husbands, and so, like, sometimes they'll talk about stuff, and I'm like, that's so gross. Right, Right.

[Ty]

Yo, dicks are ugly. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Like, gagging. Like, this is not like. And they're like, you Wouldn't go back. No.

[Kate]

You're like, talk to your other sister about it.

[Ray Clark]

Like, I'll listen to the tea.

[Kate]

Right. But, like, girl, no. And, like.

[Ray Clark]

But it's just so funny because I think that it's so hard, especially for, like, people that are old school, to understand.

[Ty]

Right.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Because they. They are like, oh, well, you know, you got with a woman because, you know, all these guys treated you bad. And I'm like, that's not how that works. But okay. Yeah, I'm not. I can't change anyone's mentality. Right. On. On how they think. But I am so thankful for my family because even though, you know, there can be hardcore judgment, they still love you and they still accept you. And the moment that I brought my wife to meet my family, that for me was everything. Because they really love her and they treat her like family and. Yeah, that. That to me is. I mean, at this point, they love her more than me. And I'm just. I'm so thankful for that.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

I'm so thankful for that.

[Ty]

Did they come to your wedding and stuff?

[Kate]

No.

[Ray Clark]

So when we got married. So we got married three months after we met, and we. My wife is very introverted and gets very nervous around, like, big crowds. Right. So that's why when I go someplace, majority of the time, it's me going by myself or if she does, like, she does, like, truck stuff with her truck friends.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Like the first couple trucks up with her truck friends. Well, it's true. Yeah. But, like, when she first met them, I had to be the one to. To push her to. To go talk because she's so.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

You know, but she was like, I can't. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm sure that you want to have, like, a wedding and whatever. And I was like, I don't care about that stuff. I was like, plus, my Mexican family is probably gonna want mariachas, and I sure as shit don't want to listen to that. I was like, it's. We're good. So when we got married, my father in law, my sister in law, my best friend, the one that forced me to go to Arizona, and my great aunt, so my grandpa's sister showed up.

[Ty]

Oh, wow.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. So they came with it. Yeah. Yeah. And that.

[Kate]

It.

[Ray Clark]

That was important to me, you know? It was important. One of the most important things to me was like, my. My great aunt was like, you know, your grandpa loved you. You know what? I loved my grandpa. That was my hero.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

You know, and when he was gone, that was one of the hardest things for me. And she goes, was, I'm here. Because he'd be rolling in his grave. Right. If. If. If I wasn't here for you.

[Kate]

Right. Or somebody. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And I was so thankful for that. And, you know, my best friend showing up, and she's actually getting married next month, so. But it was just. It was small. It had the people that genuinely cared, and that was what was important to me.

[Ty]

You know, I love that if you.

[Ray Clark]

Didn'T want to be there and. And you just, you know, probably had judgment or probably had ugly thoughts or nasty, mean thoughts, you didn't need to be there.

[Ty]

Right. Right.

[Ray Clark]

Everything for a reason. So I was happy with who was there.

[Kate]

Yeah. We met her, and I automatically just went to hug her. And then afterwards, I was like. I don't know if she really wanted.

[Ray Clark]

What was funny was she was like.

[Ty]

She hugged me. I went in for her. I didn't. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And then I'm like, some people aren't hugging. Yeah.

[Ty]

I always gotta tell myself, some people aren't huggers.

[Ray Clark]

And that's what was funny, was because she. She was like, they just came up and hugged me. She was like, I didn't even know if they knew who I was. I was like, okay.

[Kate]

And she seems really cool.

[Ray Clark]

She really is. And she's like. I'm sure you guys noticed, like, she's a. She was very comfortable talking, which I was surprised.

[Kate]

No, I really like.

[Ray Clark]

But she's also very much of, like, an observer.

[Ty]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate]

So I can relate.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. She's just so much of an observer and. Okay. Getting to know you. Okay. That's what you're saying.

[Ty]

All right, cool. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Right. Okay. Character. All right.

[Kate]

You know, like, I remember texting Ray after we left. I'm like, I just totally went in with a fur hug. I'm like, so hopefully she didn't think that was weird. She's on her way to go take.

[Ray Clark]

A piss, and I'm like, hey, hey.

[Ty]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[Kate]

Like, I know you and it's the.

[Ray Clark]

First time we're meeting.

[Kate]

Yeah. I was like, oh, you guys. Like, yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Like, when you guys come up, I was like, they're huggers.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Ray's like, ah, I know.

[Ty]

We gotta work on that. I always feel like, oh, yeah.

[Kate]

Thanks for sharing all that.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Being vulnerable. And thanks for, you know, shaming us. No, I'm just kidding.

[Ty]

Thanks for killing us, man.

[Kate]

But if people don't know, where can people go to find you?

[Ray Clark]

So I'm on Tick tock. Facebook, Instagram. Ray. Clark. C L A R K E. So Clark, I actually is from like Clark Kent, you know, from.

[Ty]

Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

And so I was like, you know, I need like a little alias.

[Kate]

And I like it.

[Ray Clark]

Superman's kind of.

[Ty]

Of. Yeah.

[Ray Clark]

Kind of cute.

[Ty]

Okay, Clark. Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah, I like it.

[Ty]

So it's not reality TV with Ray anymore?

[Kate]

No, it's not anymore. Okay.

[Ty]

Cancel it.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah. Because it was putting me in a box.

[Ty]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Kate]

Yeah. So Ray. Clark. Okay, Clark.

[Ty]

Awesome.

[Kate]

Well, thanks, Ray. It was so nice.

[Ty]

We'll do it again.

[Kate]

Yeah, we have to do this part two.

[Ray Clark]

Sure.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Ty]

You know, listen, maybe you go on your page, get more questions to grill us for, and then we'll just do a Ray special episode.

[Ray Clark]

Shaming.

[Ty]

Stamina.

[Ray Clark]

Yeah.

[Ty]

Break it down. Break it down with Ray.

[Kate]

I love it. All right, you guys, well, thanks for listening to this week's episode. Make sure you guys go check out Ray like and follow. Don't forget to review and like our show and we'll be talking to you guys next week. Bye.

[Ray Clark]

Bye.

[Ty]

This October, Fear is free on Pluto tv. With horror movie collections from Paranormal Activity.

[Ray Clark]

The Ring, you will die in seven.

[Ty]

Days, Scream, and from Dusk till Dawn. This is my kind of place. And don't miss the man made nightmares in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein or the world ending chaos in 28 days later.

[Ray Clark]

There's something in the blood.

[Ty]

All the scares, all for free. Pluto TV stream now pay never. Hi, I'm Adam Rippon and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I probably should have kept to myself. Nothing's off limits. Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I Unclear, but if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations, you found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.