The Cousin Who Was Actually My Mother: Kinship Adoption with D.A. (PART 1)

Summary

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Cate & Ty Break It Down

Episode: The Cousin Who Was Actually My Mother: Kinship Adoption with D.A. (PART 1)
Date: July 8, 2026
Hosts: Catelynn Baltierra (B), Guest D.A. (C)
PodcastOne

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth, emotional conversation between Catelynn Baltierra and guest D.A.—a kinship adoptee and vocal adoptee advocate. They explore the complexities and struggles of kinship adoption, family secrecy, identity, and the distinct traumas faced by adopted children—particularly when biological relatives are involved. D.A. shares her personal story of growing up adopted by her great-aunt, the revelation that her "cousin" was actually her biological mother, and the enduring impacts of secrecy and family power dynamics. The episode is raw and vulnerable, highlighting the nuances and hidden pains behind what many view as “family solutions.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Cate Met D.A. and Initial Impressions

• Cate shares that she first discovered D.A. online, initially feeling defensive as a birth mom (“I was still kind of partially in my fog and kind of being offended and I was like, oh my gosh, like she hates adoption.” – B, 01:15).
• Over time, Cate realized the importance and validity of D.A.’s perspectives.

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2. D.A.’s Origin Story: Birth, Adoption, and Family Secrecy

• D.A. was born to very young parents (14 and 16) in small-town Texas. Her mother concealed the pregnancy until two months before birth—leaving the family scrambling for a solution (C, 01:45).
• D.A.’s grandmother arranged for her own sister—D.A.’s great-aunt—to adopt the baby.
• Family expectation was clear: “My birth mom says that she knew that keeping me was never an option because it was just always made clear to them that if any of them had a kid that they weren’t keeping it as teenagers anyway.” (C, 02:40)
• D.A.’s adoptive father was himself adopted and insisted D.A. always be told the truth about being adopted, though this truth was partial.

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3. Early Awareness and Discovery (Childhood Years)

• D.A. learned of her adoption around age 4, but it was presented as a matter-of-fact: “We stood in front of a judge and the judge said that you were our daughter. And, you know, and I was just like, that's weird. Like, I don't know what that means, you know?" (C, 04:51)
• She began to grasp that being adopted meant she had another set of parents—a realization that drove pointed questions as she grew.

The “One Question” Bedtime Rule

• D.A. and her adoptive mother established an arrangement: each night, she could ask one question about her birth family, usually focusing on her birth mother. Sometimes, her adoptive mother would refuse to answer: “She would just be like, no, like I’m not going to answer that. And that was your one question.” (C, 07:09)
• Cate observes: “They almost had it right… But not the one question. It’s like, no, if at night time when I tuck you into bed, if you have any questions, let’s talk about it… But then it’s like, no, that’s not the right way to go about it.” (B, 07:27)

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4. The Moment of Truth: Learning Her "Cousin" Was Her Mother

• Eventually, at seven, D.A. begged her parents to tell her who her birth mother was, suspecting it was someone close. After skirting the question, her adoptive mother confessed: “She looked at me and she didn’t answer. And I was like, it is, isn’t it?... And she [finally said] yes, it is.” (C, 15:09–15:10)
• The revelation brought a flood of mixed emotions—initial excitement (“I got the biggest smile on my face… man, I really like her”), immediately replaced by betrayal, confusion, and a sense of abandonment: “Knowing that it was somebody that I valued as much as I valued her, had already rejected me and I didn’t know it… I genuinely felt so abandoned, and not just by my birth mom, but everybody. Because… it was everybody. Everybody.” (C, 21:50–24:01)

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5. Emotional Fallout and Family Trust

• D.A. describes running to her room, slamming the door, and refusing to speak to anyone after the revelation (C, 24:01–24:38). Her adoptive mother uncharacteristically gave her space.
• On being given space versus being comforted, D.A. reflects: “It was better for me to be left alone because I think she would have made it worse. But I think ideal situation… is to be the shoulder that kid can cry on.” (C, 24:59)

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6. Early Conversations with Her Birth Mother

• After learning the truth, D.A.’s first conversation with her birth mom took place typing questions via her adoptive mother’s laptop. The questions were raw, as only a child’s could be: “Did you love my dad? Why did you give me away? Who is my dad? … Do you love [my new sibling] more than you love me? … Do you even love me like your kid, or do you love me like a cousin?" (C, 29:06–35:12)
• Her birth mother’s visible pain at these questions was apparent, and D.A. now understands the power dynamics that often forced birth parents to protect the feelings of adoptive parents rather than honestly engage with their children.

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7. The Power Dynamics of Kinship Adoption

• D.A. highlights the uniquely intense dynamics in kinship adoption—loyalties, secrecy, and the risk of “blowing up” entire families:
  “The power dynamic is strong enough in adoption… but when you add family into that…if you break that, the whole family falls apart.” (C, 36:48)

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8. Growing Up in a Conservative, Narcissistic Home

• D.A. grew up in a strictly Christian, judgmental household, which shaped how information was controlled (“It was just never a universe that I got to live in where I got to decide what to call them or how to feel about them. It was always dictated to me.” – C, 12:15)
• The religious context amplified secrecy, guilt, and performance for the family and for D.A. herself.

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9. Therapy, Trauma, and Advocacy

• Cate and D.A. discuss the lack of trauma-informed parenting in the adoption world:
  “Why aren’t there… classes and I mean like lifelong classes that adoptive parents have to go through… in learning about the trauma and how to help the adopted child and what to say, what not to say…?” (B, 45:42)
• D.A. repeatedly sought therapy, but family dysfunction and her adoptive mother’s resistance sabotaged real help:
  “He [her therapist] said, you don’t know how to parent your adopted children. And I knew it—from as soon as he said that… I’m never seeing you again.” (C, 39:45)
• “That was the first time that somebody really advocated for me—not just as their kid in this dysfunctional family… but like specifically because I was adopted too. And I felt seen.” (C, 39:51)

Notable Metaphor:

• “Being adopted is like growing up with a bullet wound... people cover it with band aids without ever dealing with the wound at hand. You didn’t have surgery, you didn’t get the bullet out… It might stop bleeding… but it’s going to be painful.” (D.A.’s therapist, paraphrased by C, 39:51–41:10)

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10. Adolescence, Control, and Medication Abuse

• As a teen, D.A. was institutionalized multiple times and dealt with psychological abuse and gaslighting from her adoptive mother, including dangerous manipulation of her prescribed psych meds: “She would give me the meds for like four days in a row and take them back for four days in a row…which if you know anything about psych meds, you know, is an incredibly dangerous thing to do.” (C, 52:57–54:36)
• D.A. describes considering suicide during these cycles, her adoptive mother minimizing or denying her distress:
  “She literally—she wrote, and I quote, well, she says there is, but there’s no proof of that.”
  “And I looked at my therapist and I said, what mother takes a chance like that? And I said, this is why she is not and ever will be my mother.” (C, 59:05–59:23)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On secrecy and betrayal:
  “I genuinely felt so abandoned, and not just by my birth mom, but everybody. Because whenever you’re a kinship adoptee and you find out something like that… It was everybody. Everybody.” (C, 24:01)

• On the need for adoptive parenting education:
  “There needs to be classes and every year you have to get recertified… learning about the trauma… because so many adoptees are literally getting screwed repeatedly. To me, it’s common sense.” (B, 46:38)

• Therapist’s metaphor (bullet wound):
  “Being adopted is like growing up with a bullet wound…people…put band aids over it without ever dealing with the wound at hand.” (C, 41:00)

• On parental denial:
  “It is not a bullet wound. It happened, get over it. Like you’re adopted. It doesn’t define you… It quite literally does. Some life events define you as a person.” (C, 41:51)

• On generational cycles and coercion:
  “[My birth mother’s parents told her] if you have this baby, you can’t live here anymore…we’re not going to raise your child for you.” (C, 52:55)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:45 – D.A.’s birth story and adoption arrangement
• 04:51 – Discovering she’s adopted at age 4
• 06:49 – Bedtime “one question” arrangement
• 15:09–21:50 – Revelation: cousin is actually her mother; flood of emotions
• 24:01 – D.A. describes the moment of feeling betrayed by entire family
• 29:06–35:12 – First direct questions to birth mother
• 39:45–41:51 – Family therapy; therapist advocates for D.A.; “bullet wound” analogy
• 46:38 – Cate’s call for required trauma classes for adoptive parents
• 52:55–54:36 – D.A. discusses being subjected to medication withdrawal as a form of parental control
• 59:05–59:23 – D.A. on her adoptive mother’s denial of suicidality and what defines a real mother

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Episode Tone & Language

The episode is frank, empathetic, and raw. D.A. speaks with candor and vulnerability, balancing painful recollections with advocacy and insight. Cate provides validation, gentle challenge, and solidarity, especially as both are women affected by the adoption system.

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Memorable Moments & Reflections

• D.A. recounting the moment she learned her favorite cousin was her mother: “I got the biggest smile on my face… and then, just as quickly as that smile came, it was like the biggest wave of all of the negative feelings...” (C, 21:50)
• Cate’s reflection on parallel experiences of “adoptee fog” and “birth parent fog” shines light on the layered identity work both must undertake (B, 45:27).
• The therapist’s bullet wound vs. band-aid metaphor—a succinct analogy for lifelong adoption trauma.

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Closing

The episode concludes with Cate noting this is part one of D.A.’s story, promising that next week will go even deeper. Listeners are encouraged to follow and share the episode for awareness and support.

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This powerful conversation is essential for anyone looking to understand the unseen wounds and hidden complexities of kinship adoption, as well as the lifelong challenges adoptees face around family, secrecy, and the right to ask and receive the truth.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Okay, well guys, welcome back to another episode of K Ti. Break it down. Today I am by myself, but I have a lovely guest. Honestly, it is one of the first adoptees that I ever came across online and I, I remember seeing herself at first and being actually I was still kind of partially in my fog and kind of being offended and I was like, oh my gosh, like she hates an option. And I was in there commenting, I'm a birth mom and yada yada yada. And then the more I got to listen to her story and her opinions and all those things, I was like, oh my gosh, a lot of this makes sense. So I want to welcome da yeah,

[C]

well, thank you for having me. I actually do remember when you started coming into my lives and everybody was like dming me and I was like, I get it, I see it. I know. But you know what, I listened because I never, I never actually watched the show but I had seen clips and I do remember it being very triggering for me because I do think there are like a lot of parallels between our stories. And for anybody that's like, doesn't know me, I guess I could start with like my birth parents were 14 and 16 when I was born. And that is essentially the whole reason why I was placed for adoption. And so they only knew each other for a little bit, I think. Grew up in small town Texas, you know, and when my birth mom got pregnant with me, she hid it for a really long time and I was born two months early. So essentially people knew for like two months and so everybody was scrambling to come up with a plan. Her parents had asked, well, her mom had asked her sister, so my great aunt biologically to adopt me and she said yes. They already had two children, a five year old and a three year old at the time. And she had wanted more children but had chosen to get her tubes tied. And so she was kind of like going in between whether or not choosing to adopt or choosing to foster. And then whenever her sister called her and was like, hey, my daughter's pregnant, I don't know if I do. Like she was like, said that she would adopt me. And so that was kind of always the plan after that. My birth mom says that she knew that keeping me was never an option because it was just always made clear to them that if any of them had a kid that they weren't keeping it as teenagers anyway. And so she, I think it took my birth mom a really long time to kind of like process and deconstruct the fact that like she always knew that she didn't want to place me for adoption, but like saying that she was coerced or forced to putting me up for adoption and that it was prepared. That dinner I think was a very hard code to swallow whenever she was just like, oh, this is just how it is, you know. And it honestly, it wasn't until I started talking more openly about my adoption after getting online and sharing my story and becoming an adoptia advocate, that I think a lot of those things kind of settled in for her. And so we're, that's kind of like where we're at in our relationship right now. But growing up, growing up, I knew that I was adopted. I think the first time I remember ever having a conversation about it, I was about four years old, which actually still considered like you finding out late because you're never really supposed to. Like the ideal thing is to like always know that you're adopted and like you don't remember finding out, but it was still really young. And I remember being really excited because I didn't fully comprehend. And I remember being very excited because I was the, as the youngest with like two older siblings. I was like, haha, I'm different than you. Right, right. And then whenever somebody would say something, I'd be like, don't look at me, I'm adopted.

[B]

So you don't remember it just always being talked about or being a thing, but you vividly remember being like asking questions when you're about four.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So. And I don't, I, to be honest, I don't know if they tried to tell me before that, I know that my adoptive father is adopted as well. Oh. And because of that, whenever they had all the conversations about how they were going to go about everything, the one, I guess, request that my adoptive father had was that he wanted me to know that I was adopted because he didn't feel like lying about that was right. Lying about everything else was fine, I guess, but being adopted, that was like the lie and drowning the Sam. So. But I do remember that having that conversation because I believe it was my adoption day, which was November 6th. And so I remember my adoptive mother being like, you know, hey, do you know what today it is? And I was like, no. And she was like, it's your adoption day. And I was like, what is that? And so we kind of had a conversation about it. And she was like, you know, four years ago or five years ago, however long it was, we stood in front of a judge and the judge said that you were our daughter. And, you know, and I was just like, that's weird. Like, I don't know what that means, you know?

[B]

Yeah, I don't think any, I don't think any 4 year old would be able to compute it. Yeah, Yeah.

[C]

I was like, well, yeah, obviously I'm your kid. So. But then I started becoming more curious about, you know, like, who my birth parents were when I realized that, that, that being adopted meant that I had another family, parents. And I think that's how a lot of adoptive parents try to frame it, actually, is that like being adopted means when you became ours. So whenever we get told that it's. It's just like a. We stood in front of the judge and the judge told us that we were like officially a family until it started, like, really sinking in for me. And I remember when it did that, that that had to mean that I had a different family. And so I, I started asking questions and that went on for a couple of years.

[B]

Do you remember how old you were Da. When you started having those thoughts of like, who is my other family? Or where did I come from? Because at 4, did they tell you that it was, you know, your quote, unquote, cousin at that time?

[C]

They did not. Yeah, so I remember. I don't know how long it took after that initial conversation, but I do remember asking questions for several years. Eventually found out that my cousin was my mother when I was seven, I believe. So for a couple of years in between there, me and my adoptive mother actually came up with like an arrangement. So, like, whenever she would tuck me into bed at night. I would pick a birth parent or a birth family, like side of my birth family and I would be able to ask one question. And yeah, and so, and she would, she said that she would answer it to the best of her ability. Okay. And then which sometimes she would just be like, no, like I'm not going to answer that. And that was your one question.

[B]

Oh, well, like, you know, that moment right there reminds me is like they almost had it right. In a sense of like. But not the one question. It's like, no, if at night time when I talk came to bed, if you have any questions, let's talk about it. Let's figure it out. I'll. You know what I mean? But then on the other flip, it's like, no, that's not the right way to go about it.

[C]

Well, and looking back, I think she was really trying to avoid situations, especially because I was a kinship adoptee. And so because I remember like having a friend come over one time and I was like going through my family tree with her as you do at like six years old, I guess. I don't know. And so I was just, I was just like, and this is my cousin and that's my other cousin. And I remember like looking out the, like the door and being like, hey, does you know like my bedroom door? Because I was right across the hall from my parents bedroom and I said like hey, does this cousin of mine like have any kids? Because I couldn't remember and she didn't say anything and I was like hello, like does she have kids? And she finally. And she kept avoiding me until I was like, dude, like mom, like does she have any kids? Just because I, and I didn't understand why it was like such a crazy question to ask. And she just looked at me and she was like no, no, no, she doesn't, she doesn't have any children. And, and I was like, oh, okay. And I don't remember why. I guess maybe I, maybe it was not soon after that that I found out the truth. Or maybe it was just one of those memories that comes back up after I found out the truth that I was like, oh, that was one of the times that you lied to me. But that for some reason that has always stuck with me even like at such a young age. And so I know that she was trying to avoid certain situations. And so whenever we came up with that arrangement like to ask a certain question or whatever, normally I would always pick my birth mother and not my birth father. And it just became very Apparent that she didn't know a whole lot about my birth father or his family. You know, and unfortunately, which is very common in, like, kinship cases, the side of the family that the kid gets adopted by, it's like the other side is completely forgotten. And they don't. They don't really try to have any sort of, like, agreement or contact or anything like that. So I didn't. I. I didn't really want to, like, waste my questions on him, because if I lost the question that night, then I just. And it wasn't every night because my mother didn't tuck me in every night. So it was like, you know, a couple of times a month. And so I would just pick my birth mom always. And it was always like, does she have my hair color or what color are her eyes? Or what does she look like? You know, things like that, or, like, what does she do for work or whatever. And just, like, very simple things. And then also during those couple years, I became more and more curious because I was adopted into a very Christian family. And so there were adoption parallels everywhere. You know, just were adopted into God's family and Moses and Esther and all of these different people that were constantly talked about, and even my adoptive father talking about his adoption. Well, one of the days, like, my. My older brother became friends with a boy at church, and he had an older sister, and they had been legally adopted by their grandparents. And so they called and they knew that, you know, they knew that their grandparents were their grandparents. And so they would refer to them as their grandparents, but to their face, they would always say mom and dad. And that was just kind of like the arrangement that was their normal, you know. And so whenever we went over to their house, me and my sister went in with his, you know, to his sister's bedroom to play or whatever. She had this. This picture on her dresser with this couple holding her and her brother. And I said, who's that? She was like, that's my mom and dad. And I was like, no, it's not. There's your mom and dad. And she was like, no, that's my real mom and dad. And I was like, you know them? Like, that's the thing, right? And she was like, yeah, I know them. She was like, we see them every once in a while. And I was like. And you call them mom and dad? And she was like, well, yeah, because they're my mom and dad.

[B]

And.

[C]

And I was like, that's crazy. I was like, mind blown, you know. Right.

[B]

Like, you can see them, you know, Them, you know, what they look like.

[C]

Right, right. Well, and it's because, you know, and my. My adoptive mother's, like, jealousy and insecurity would come out of very specific places. It was like, this is the truth, and you. This is the new truth, and you cannot stray from it. And so whenever I'd be like, hey, can I ask you a question about my mom? She'd be like, your birth mom? Oh, you know, and so. And it was always corrected. And so it was just. It was just never a universe that I got to live in where I got to decide what to call them or how to feel about them. It was always dictated to me. And I think even when I found out who she was, you know, I had been begging and begging and begging. And then one night, one of my questions. I remember this so vividly. One of my questions was, is it somebody that I know? Because I thought. Because. And I was gonna say, yeah.

[B]

What made you think?

[C]

It's so sad to me how, like, aware I was as a kid and, like, how good I was at, like, reading people. And I think that comes from two things. One, I think adoptees just especially adopted from birth are just, like, hyper aware of, like, their parents, like, emotions and feelings and stuff. And we talk about that a lot, too. And then the other one was because I grew up in a very, like, toxic, narcissistic home where my adoptive mother was a raging narcissist and my adoptive father was her enabler. And so I think just from that, like, you know, you just win off of, like, how they set the mood.

[B]

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[C]

and so, but and I always thought I knew questions she was avoiding at the time. I knew, like, what, like, her body language at the time. And so I, and I thought it was weird, like the, the questions that she would try to stray from. And so I just asked her one time and I think I was about seven years old when I said, like, is it somebody that I know? And she looked at me and she didn't answer. And I was like, it is, isn't it?

[B]

Right?

[C]

And she like, yes, it is. And after that it was like the floodgates opened. I was like, no, who is it? Like, and I was looking everywhere and I was trying to be like, is that them? Is it them? Like, and I think like, and this is the part that's so unnecessary is that like, I understand these questions are not easy to answer always. These conversations are not easy to have for adoptive parents. And I don't think anybody would claim that they were right.

[B]

They need to be answered and they

[C]

need to be right. And it's so crucial too, because not only are you providing like, truth to your child about like, their life and their story and where they come from, but you're also, like, you're also deciding who you're going to be to your child. And what you're establishing now is not only like, all the insecurity and all of the fears and, and anxieties they have around their stories and getting the answers and what it's going to be like when they do get these answers but now you're also establishing whether or not you are somebody that they can trust, whether you're not, whether or not you're going to be the shoulder that they can cry on. And unfortunately, I learned very early that my adoptive mother was just not that person. And, and ironically, I had just, well, I had just seen my birth mom before that because like I said, I grew up in a very Christian family indoctrination at a very young age. And so when I was 6 years old, I, you know, I sat at the table, I said this prayer and I knew that it was pretty fake to my parents because whenever I did say the prayer that they wanted me to say, you know, lord Jesus, please come into my heart and forgive me for all my sins and stuff, I already did that. And I went to my mom and I had told her that I did that and she said, well, I think me and your dad would want to be there for that, so let's hold off on that instead of like, oh, that's such a great thing, you know, Right. I think at that age I also learned that not only did this have to do with like my adoption, but like just, just everything in general, just my way of life was just all performative and, and how they were in general with their beliefs was all performative. And so at the table one Sunday, I, you know, I said the prayer again and everybody was so happy and my siblings were so happy, you know, and stuff. And then a couple months later, after I turned 7, was when I got baptized in church and I didn't want to do it and I kept telling my parents I didn't want to do it. And she was like, well, this is like a requirement, more or less. Those weren't her exact words, but she was just like, this is what happens when you get saved. And like, if you're not saved, then like, why don't you want to get back? You know what I mean? And so I did. And then my birth mom actually came up with her 18 month old son at the time from Texas to Alabama to see me get baptized because my birth mom was also a Christian and she was the only family member that came for it. And so, and we weren't close, you know, we, we lived away from all of our family. You know, we had family in Kansas and Texas and Indiana, but we weren't like, you know, we were just off in our little corner of the country and people didn't come to visit. If anything, we went to go visit them. And so I remember having this conversation again Very vividly where she was like, hey, you know, your cousin's coming to see you get baptized. And I was like, why? Right? Like, that's great, but why? Like, that's so weird. And she was just like, I don't know. She just wants to come. It's an exciting thing. And I was like, okay, sure, I guess.

[B]

And so.

[C]

And so I had seen her, and I remember being so close, and for a while, because I had talked to her on the phone. We had all talked to her on the phone. After my adoption, actually, my birth mom and my adoptive mother became a lot closer. And because my birth mom and her mom didn't have, like, a close relationship, my adoptive mother kind of became her confidant. And. Yeah. And as her aunt, too. Like, they had. They had a special relationship. And so whenever they were on the phone together, you know, she'd be like, oh, here's. You know. And so she would give us the phone, and we'd say hi, and we had, like, little jokes and nicknames that we would call her and stuff. So I knew her like that, like, over the phone. And I used to say that she was my favorite cousin. And whenever she came to visit, I was like. I kept saying she was my favorite cousin, you know, and every time. And I remember getting, like, crazy jealous every time. Like, whenever she was playing with her son or even when she was playing with my siblings, like, I would be like, hey, like, what the heck? Like, um. And so. And people often ask me if I knew or I had a feeling about who she was before I found out. And I don't think, like, yes and no. Like, that feeling came from, like, a.

[A]

A.

[C]

A connection with her that I clearly did not have with anybody else. Like, I knew her in a way where she was just not some random cousin that I did not have the thought of, like, oh, this is my mother, obviously. You know, I also wonder if it comes.

[B]

I wonder also if it comes just from, like, a. A maternal and child thing. More of, like an instinctual thing. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you're not sitting there thinking, like, oh, this is my, you know, biological mom. But. But it is interesting how you talk about how, like, getting jealous or not even, you know, knowing her through the phone and maybe seeing her every once in a while, but thinking she's your favorite cousin. Like, that's. That's super interesting.

[C]

Yeah, and it's super specific, too, because, I mean, anybody like. Or could have been close with anybody, and it wasn't that I was like, particularly close with her. Spent, like, more time with her than anybody else. It was just I. Again, I just felt, like, a certain level of connection and. And she always seemed to, like, really care about me, too, in a way that I picked up. Because, you know, in our house and in our family, I would say even in our extended family, we just kind of had this atmosphere of, like, children are better seen and not heard. And whenever. It was not like that, like, she was clearly, like, invested in me and getting to know me and stuff like that. And so I had. Yeah, I had just seen her, and. And then she went back. So it was in. And then we went up to Kansas, where we. We were all there for my great grandmother's funeral. And that was the first time I saw her after I found out who she was. So for those couple of weeks when she came to Alabama, and right before we went to Kansas was in between. That was when I found out who she was. And I remember, like, I just kept begging and begging, begging. And one day my mother and father called me into their bedroom, just sitting on their bed, and they said, we know that you've been asking a lot of questions. We know that, you know that your birth mom is somebody that you know, and we are going to tell you now if you think that you're ready for that. And I was so excited. I was like, yes. Like, okay. And then they started making jokes and. And my adoptive mother to this day says that she was, like, trying to make a lot of the situation or trying to, like, you know, whatever. But it really frustrated me, and I got upset. I got so upset because she kept saying things like, my birth parents were Barbie and Ken or whatever. And my little logical mind that's trying to piece everything together was like, barbie and Ken aren't real, and they're blonde, and I'm not blonde.

[B]

Right. Like, how does that connect?

[C]

You know? And I was just like, stop. Like, stop playing around and tell me who my birth parents are. And so, yeah. And so I remember my adoptive mother just being like, okay, you know, I don't know how to tell you this, so I'm just going to tell you that it's one of your aunt's two daughters. And I remember thinking, like, her youngest daughter was really young, and she had. And everybody was talking about how she was just getting married and just having her first kid, you know, And I was just like, well, she doesn't have any kids, right? And she was like, no, she doesn't. And I was like, oh, so it's like, my birth mom was like my cousin that was like, married and had this 18 month old son and she was like, yeah. And I. I remember so vividly, so vividly this memory of when I was like 7 years old and I got the biggest smile on my face and I wrote because I thought I was like, man, I really like her, you know, and then, and then, just as quickly as that smile came, it was like the biggest wave of all of the negative feelings that came with it, too. And I remember feeling so betrayed and vulnerable and lied to and just all of the things of being, like, knowing that it was somebody that I knew, knowing that it was somebody that I valued as much as I valued her, had already rejected me and I didn't know it. And so it just kind of felt like. And I'm able to, like, verbally articulate now, you know, but as a kid, like, I had no idea what I was feeling. But now I can look back and I can say that it's like, because. Because I valued her so much and because I trusted her so much, it was like. It was like we were all role playing, you know, whatever, and we were all just living somebody else's delusion. And I was just sitting there being like, you know, I. I feel like that was the biggest point in which I. I genuinely felt so abandoned, and not just by my birth mom, but everybody. Because whenever you're a kinship adoptee and you find out something like that, especially when it's somebody that you knew. It wasn't just my adoptive mom and adoptive father and my birth mom that kept this secret. It was everybody. Everybody.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[C]

The whole feeling. Right. And so. And that was. And I started, you know, really. That really started to sink in. And again, I was raised in a very strict household. And so I got up and I ran out and I went to my room and I slammed the door and I started crying. And I remember my adoptive mother calling after me and calling my name and she said, come, like, come back in here. Come here right now. And she was very stern about it. And I said, I literally screamed back, no. And slammed the door. And I remember thinking, oh, she's going to come back in here and she's going to whip my butt. Like, because I was just like screaming at her, no. And you don't tell mom. No, like, unless you want your life, you know.

[B]

Right, right. And. But.

[C]

And it shocked me because she didn't come after me. And she gave me space. No. And she gave me space and she gave me time. And eventually she was just.

[B]

Do you think that was the right move or do you think. Or do you think she should have, like, came to you and continued the conversation of, like, what is making you upset? What. You know what I mean? What do you think?

[C]

I think, I think given who my parents were and I think given the situation, it was better for me to be left alone because I think she would have made it worse. But I think ideal situation, you know, whenever you're. You're giving such big pieces of somebody's story of an adoptee story, you know, like, obviously the thing is to be the shoulder that that kid can cry on. And unfortunately, like, my adopted mother and I already such a relationship of distrust that, like, it just, it would not have been helpful for me. And so, And I didn't, I didn't want to see her, you know, and I, I didn't want to see any of them. And so I remember, you know, eventually she kept calling me in, and so I, I said, you know, okay. And I got up and I opened the door and I went back into her room. And I don't remember the rest of that conversation, but I remember either weeks or months later, she sat me on the bed and on my bed, and she had her laptop out, and she was, you know, used it so we could, like, type things back and forth to each other. And I didn't know this until, until I don't a couple years ago when my birth mom told me. But apparently my adoptive parents didn't tell my birth mom that they were going to tell me who I was. And that's such a crazy thing to me now because, you know, when I was 7, she was 24, and I'm. Or now, you know, and so to think, like, if I just got a phone call and they were like, oh, by the way, she knows who you are and she wants to talk to you. I'd be like, what? You know, thanks for the heads up, dude. Like, you know, it's a lot for everybody involved, right? But I, I. And again, I had no idea. And I just remember, like, them calling her and being like, hey, she wants to speak to you. Like, she's got questions. And, and it took me forever to, like, type out my questions and being like, can I ask this? Like, on my adoptive mom's laptop? And my birth mom caught on and she was like, why, why is everybody silent? And so my adoptive mom eventually told her. She was like, she's typing out. She's asking me if she can ask. And my birth mom was like, oh, okay.

[B]

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[C]

And so you know, and I just asked her things that like a seven year old would ask. Like, you know, did you love my dad? Why did you give me away? Like, who is my dad? Like, why do you. You know what I mean? Like, why do you want to know me now, like. And so I don't remember a lot of that conversations. In fact, I forgot that entire conversation almost immediately after it happened. And it wasn't until.

[B]

That's probably a lot of trauma.

[C]

Like, it was. It was very traumatic. Yeah, Especially. And I.

[B]

A little kid, like, my v. My Veda is seven years old. I couldn't imagine.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. It was not handled well. But I. I remember she eventually tried to take me to a therapist, and my family was a foster family at that point. And so it was through the foster agency that we. We worked with in Alabama, and they had a counselor there. And so she called them up, and she was like, you know, I'm going to take you to see this therapist. I was like, why? And she was like. And I. Again, I had completely forgotten that entire conversation. And I remembered that my cousin was my mother, you know, and that kind of, like, finding out. But I forgot the entire conversation where I had this whole conversation with my birth mother on the phone. And so I don't remember how long it was, but it wasn't long after that. And she was just. And I remember being so genuinely confused because she was like, that conversation we had on the phone with your cousin. And I was like, what are you. I have no idea what you're talking about. And she was just like, you do, though. And I was like, no, I don't. Like, I don't know what you want me to say to this random dude, like, in therapy and, like, sit on this couch and be like, you know? And so I remember going there, and I was already a shy kid. Like, I already didn't talk. I hid behind my mother's leg till I was four, which is also a trauma response that I didn't find out till I was an adult. But I was already a super shy kid. And so I was sitting on this couch, and he was asking me questions, and he was like, hey, so, you know, I know this happened. And I was like, so they tell me. He was like, do you have any questions, like, that you want to ask or any feelings that you want to talk about? And I was like, no. And he was like, okay. And he looked at my adoptive mom, and he was like, well, I can't force her to talk if she don't want to talk. Like, if she wants to talk, if she becomes more open about it, bring her back here. But I can't. I can't force her to talk about something.

[B]

Right?

[C]

She's. And I remember him talking about how, like. Because she didn't believe me, at first, about forgetting that conversation. And I remember him talking to her about, you know, like, this is a common thing, like, that she. She's completely blocked it out. And. And I would just like to say, for my very Christian mother, the.

[B]

The.

[C]

Just lay it down at the foot of the cross and just pray about it, and Jesus will heal you. My mother, to bring me to therapy, it has to be bad. You know what I mean? It has to be bad.

[B]

Right? True.

[C]

Clearly concerned. But that was the only time that I went to therapy for it until I was a teenager. And so. And then. Yeah. And then I saw my birth mom after I found out who she was. And I actually have a picture of it, too, that I didn't find until years later. And I realized, because the date is stamped on the photo that I found on my aunt's Facebook, and I realized that that must have been my great grandmother's funeral, which is the first time that I saw my birth mom after I found out who she was. And my face just looks so completely like, I just looked so out of it. And my birth mom was sitting there smiling, holding her son, and I was just like, I. I literally just look like I was a ghost.

[B]

And do you remember that first interaction with her at all? Like, you know, finally finding out that your cousin is your. Your birth mom. Do you remember that interaction at all and how you feel?

[C]

Vaguely. I. Because it had been drilled into me. It. Well, it was very clear that my adoptive mother didn't really like her family, and she always. I grew up in a very judgmental household, and so it was, you know, nobody or nobody is Christians here. And if they are Christians, they're not good enough Christians, you know, they're. They're not the devout Christians, you know? And so even though my birth mom and her family were like, yes, we're Christians, too, they weren't the right kind of Christian. And so we were always told, you know, and I mean, but the house that I grew up in was like, it's a sin to drink. And so the first time that, like, I saw my aunt and uncle, like, holding a beer, I was like, sinners. Yeah. I was like, oh, my God, these people. But. And so it was like, you know, and when you hear something, you just believe it. As a kid, you know, so I was told all these things about, like, hey, don't find yourself alone with these people. Don't talk about certain things with these people. If they bring up your adoption at all, then you need to come find me directly. My I mean, we were watched like a hawk. I. I especially was around her family because of who I was. And I remember my birth mom coming up to me and being like, hey, do you want to go for a walk and talk? And I was like, oh, I'm not allowed to do that. And. And she was like, yeah, you are. She was like, I just, I just spoke to your mom, like, we can go for a walk. And I was like, I called Cap right? My mom. And I was like, she wants to go for a walk and talk. And she was like, that's okay. You can do that. And I was like, why? You gave me this whole speech for nothing? Like, it's very confusing, you know? Yeah. And so I went up to my birth mom and she looked confused. And I was like, sure, I guess we can go for a walk or whatever. I was so nervous. And we, we. I think we walked to like the church nursery or something, and, you know, she had her son with her. And I was like, why? Like, why did you want to give me away? And I was like, what? Like. And she was just like, well, I couldn't take care of a baby. And I was like, but why, though? And at that point, I was already like a parentified kid, you know what I mean, when it, when it came to like the foster babies that we had in the house. Because I. Technically at that point, I was the youngest, but we had a lot of foster babies in the house. I already knew how to change diapers, I already knew how to like, work at babies feeding schedule, like all of those things at the age of seven years old, like. And so I was just like, you're 16, and when you're that young, 16 is like your babysitter. 16 is like your. They're adults to you, you know? And so I was just like, okay. But like, why though? Like, you couldn't take care of a baby because why?

[B]

Right?

[C]

I was gonna. And I literally, I remember telling her, like, you could have gone to the library and gotten books and like, read about it. Yeah, taking care of a baby, dude, it's not difficult. And she was like, what?

[B]

Okay?

[C]

She was like, yeah, I mean, sure, I could have learned how to like, actually take care of issues, like, but it's more complicated than that. And I was like, why? And she, she was like, well, you're just gonna have to ask her aunt, meaning her mom. She was like, you're gonna have to ask your aunt that. And I was like, I'm not asking her, I'm asking you. Because at that Age. Of course, I couldn't understand the fact that it wasn't her choice. Like, it was her mother's and it was my mother's, but it wasn't. It wasn't my birth mom's. And so I. I was just like, I'm asking you all these questions, and it's like, you don't have any answers for me. And she was trying. I knew she was trying to answer them all. And so one of the hardest questions that I asked my birth mom, not for me, but I think one of the hardest ones, where I could visibly see her physical reaction, was when I asked her why she kept her son and not me. And I asked her. I literally remember after I asked that, and she was like, that's just not. That's just not how it works. And I was like, do you love him more than you love me? And, you know, because I was like, do you even, like, love me like your kid, or do you love me like a cousin? And she told me. She looked me in the face and she said, I can't answer that. And it wasn't until years later that she told me that the reason why she refused to answer, like, a lot of the questions about, like, you know, how much she loved me was because she felt like she was betraying my adopted mother. If she were to answer that, if you were to be like, I loved you like a daughter, then, you know, it would have just been like she had a lane and she had to stay in it, and she had to be respectful of my adoptive parents, because not only were they my adoptive parents, but they were her aunt and uncle, too, you know, and so I think, you know, and that's the thing about kinship adoptions that people don't talk about is that, like, the power dynamic is strong enough in adoption and in the adoption triad between adoptive parents and birth parents and the adoptee. But, you know, whenever you add family into that, I mean, it's. If you. If you break that, then, like, you know, it's. The whole family falls apart. It throws into chaos.

[B]

It's got to make it more. Yeah, it's got to make it even. Like you. I can see what you're saying, because even just with, you know, my journey alone, you know, it's very much like they're in control of everything. They make all the rules. You know, I just need to, like, be quiet and not say anything. The, you know, the adopted child needs to be quiet, not say anything, because they make all the rules, you know, so I can't even that then. Yeah, then you throw feeling in the mix, and it's like, you know, the whole, like, blood's thicker than water and, like, all those, you know, nuanced things that people say. And then you have adoption in it. Yeah. Like, wow, it's probably got to make the power shift way more intense. I.

[C]

And it wasn't until years later, like, when I started getting older and I became a teenager, like, that I started finding out more and more, because whenever I was about, you know, 16 or 17, that's when things between my adoptive parents became so much worse. And, you know, it was just framed like I was, like, the prodigal daughter, and I was, you know, this rebellious, evil way. She convinced people that I was demon oppressed. You know what I mean? When in reality, I was dealing with very real traumas with, you know, very real mental illnesses and stuff that was becoming more and more apparent. And I was put into therapy after I begged to go to therapy, and my therapist kept being like, you know, well, we need to have a family session. Like, this is this family dysfunction. We need to have family therapy. And I was like, no. Because I knew that as soon as we had that session, I wasn't going to therapy anymore because my adopted mother would feel challenged and she would feel, you know, some type of way. And that's exactly what happened. We had that therapy session, and my therapist tried to, like, have, you know, have this respectful conversation, you know, and everything. My adoptive mother just kept pushing him and was just like, you know, well, you clearly want to say something. Stop using all the psychobabble terms. Literally said that. Stop saying all these psychobabble terms and just tell me what you mean. Like, just say what you want to say. Clearly you have something you want to say. And my therapist, who, by the way, was an adoptive father himself, like, finally, like, was just like, oh, okay, you don't know how to parent your adopted children. And. And I remember sitting there, and I was like, well, yeah. And I was like, well, pleasure knowing you. I'm never seeing you again.

[B]

And so after that session, she did end up not letting you see him again.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

[B]

And I.

[C]

And I knew it from. From as soon as he said that, because he didn't even say, you don't know how to parent. He said, you don't know how to parent. You are adopted children. And I think that ties into. And now I talk so much about how, like, parenting your adopted children and parenting your biological children are very different things. And because we have different needs, it's Like a whole different background and a whole different the way that you approach things, you know, and so, and especially something that goes so deep. And that was the first time that somebody really advocated for me. Not, not just as like their kid in this dysfunctional family that was toxic, but, but like specifically because I was adopted too. And I felt seen. And I even remember in one, in one session he told me and he again, he said this as an adoptive father. He said this as somebody that work, a Christian like foster agency that he said, like, being adopted is like growing up with, with a bullet wound and people that, that say all these nice things or say, oh, you know, like whatever. It's like putting band aids over it without ever dealing with the wound at hand. Like, you didn't have surgery, you didn't get the bullet out, you didn't sew up the wound. Like these band aids are going to do nothing. You know what I mean? And it might stop bleeding and you might not die and you might be able to live with it, but it's going to be painful. It's going to be painful. It could get infections, it could, you know, whatever. And I remember going back home and telling my adoptive mother that and I was like, well, this is what they even say in therapy. Like, you have to deal with this and you're not letting me deal with any of this. And I started advocating for myself as a teenager. And I remember again, very vividly, like just these memories of like my adoptive mother laughing in my face and being like, it is not a bullet wound. It happened. Get over it. Like you're adopted. It's not. It doesn't define you. Which is something that a lot of people like to say. It quite literally does it quite literally. Some life events define you as a person. Some life events happen and there is no going back to who you were before. And especially when you are adopted as an infant. Like, there is no pre verbal like or pre trauma self to go back to because it is a preverbal trauma. And they're like, it's just all you ever know. And so your trauma responses manifest in different ways. And not all trauma responses look like bad things anyway. Some of them look like good things. You know, I remember my adoptive parents being bragging about how content of a baby I was. And that's a very. And if you know anything about adoption, like, especially in infants, you know, that's a very common trauma response of infants is that they know that they are not going what they, what they want, what they need, what they crave instinctively they're not going to get and they become, you know, they, they adapt and that is their adapting is to stay quiet. They're adapting is to just deal with whatever is going on around them and they grow up that way. Is part of the reason why I didn't speak to anybody else until I was four years old. Like that's not a normal developmental thing. Like some kids are shot. Sure. Some kids don't make it a commitment to stay silent to everybody outside of the house until they're older. It was very clearly a trauma response.

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

You know, and I've gone back and I've talked to my adoptive mother about all these things that I've gone to therapy for and deconstructed and done research on and you know, really learned about myself and looking back to heal my own, you know, traumas and stuff. And I've tried to talk to her about it and it's just very like, okay, well, I can kind of see that. But the only traumas that she will acknowledge is stuff that she doesn't have to take responsibility for. And then she'll, she'll like. Yeah, and then she'll, she'll just cover it with like a. Well, I said I was sorry for everything, you know, And I'm like, well, that, that's not like you, you haven't apologized for anything actually. And so it's like with my adoption, like a lot of this stuff with our dysfunctional family, like she will go back and she'll blame it on my adoption. And the reason why she blames it on my adoption is not because she actually believes that my adoption caused these issues. She blames it on my adoption because then she can say that it was everybody else's fault and not hers. It was my birth parents fault. It was my birth parents parents fault, but not her fault. You know, I would have been adopted regardless.

[B]

Yeah, it's a good scapegoat for her, right?

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

It makes me, and it makes me think like I've had this idea ever since of like, you know how they say adoptees go through like a fog? You know, have you heard, you heard that term, right? I feel like, I feel like birth parents do too, in a sense.

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

And so since I've coming out of like my own, you know, relinquishment fog, I remember I've talked to Tyler and I said, I really think, like, why aren't there, you know, classes and I mean like lifelong classes that adoptive parents have to go through where it's like you have to do this. I don't even know, like so many hours and stuff and learning about the trauma and how to help the adopted child and what to say, what not to say, like why. I mean, adoption needs to be totally dishambled anyways and change. But I'm like, how come that was never a thing? Like, you know, just there need to be like long term classes and also for the adoptive parents to go to therapy themselves because there's got to be a lot of trauma that they're going, that they're going through, which in turn is being put on the adopted child or the birth family or. And both of them, you know, most of the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But really do think like there needs to be classes and every year you have to get recertified or whatever. Because I'm like so many. I just hear so many stories about these literally getting screwed repeatedly out of stuff. It's like to me is common sense,

[C]

but you know, because I, I was institutionalized a lot as a teenager for multiple different reasons. And whenever my adoptive mother felt like she ran out of like, it's families or homes or hospitals to send me to, she one summer called my back in 2019, she called my birth mom. I was 17 years old. And she said that she wanted me to go live with her basically. And I wanted, I wanted to get to know my birth mother too. But it was during a really hard time because my birth mother's mother was dying of cancer at the time. And so kind of like the COVID that that happened under was that I was going to go there and I was going to spend time with them and that I could ask questions to my birth mother's mom, which I knew that I could not do freely because ever everything would have gotten back to them. And I couldn't trust my birth mom freely because like, just of all the things in my home that went on behind closed doors that she would not have believed because she was so close at the time to my adoptive mother. And so, you know, it was just that whole month was just her trying to get to know me and her trying to like, see what the actual core issues were. I was skirting around it and I wasn't letting her get to know me for the first time several weeks. And we started clashing. We had horrible fights. I threw things back in her face, you know, whenever she started telling me to do stuff and I'd be like, you can't tell me what to do. Were you my mom? No, I didn't think so. Like, you know, I, you know, and I got my anger out and I stayed quiet a lot of the month because. And I just refused to speak because I was like, everything I say can and will be used against me. Like, and that's just how it is. And I didn't want my adoptive mother to know anything. And so I just wanted to get to know my birth mom in a way that still kept me hidden. And, and I, you know, it wasn't until the last couple of weeks of being there that we really started being on the same page. And I really allowed myself to like, feel loved by her. And I think she allowed herself too, to like, kind of be like, okay, you're 17 now, you're almost 18. You know, like, she started allowing herself to want things that she had never done before and because she wasn't allowed to, you know, and so we started getting on a closer level and we talked about getting matching tattoos when I was older and, you know, stuff like that. And then my adoptive mother flew in for the 4th of July and to see, like, the whole family reunion thing that it was every, essentially everybody seeing my biological grandmother before she passed. And whenever she came in, it was like the atmosphere completely changed me. And my birth mother went to pick her up from the airport. And I could tell that my adoptive mother was on edge. I was on edge. My birth mom was on edge. My birth mom didn't understand why, like, she was hoping that we would have this very respectful conversation between me and, like, you know, my adoptive mother and just being like, hey, she's getting older. These conversations we want, I hope, to have, like, conversations like phone calls that aren't completely supervised by you. You know, like, there's really no reason. And my adoptive mother just was not having it. And my. I think after a couple of hours in the truck just having this three way, like, argument, and I started getting really triggered and really upset. And my birth mom just. She looked so defeated. And she turned around in the truck and she was like. When I was like, trying to argue with my adoptive mom and she was like, no, stop. Like, she was like, this is not. This is. It's been decided. Like, we can't. Like, we can argue about this for hours. The answer is clearly no. Like, we're not getting anywhere. This is not a productive conversation and, you know, whatever. And it was just like, when I saw my birth mother give up, which logically, I don't blame her for, she was right. The conversation was not going anywhere. But I was like, fight for me, damn it. Like, geez. I just wanted to feel like she had. She at some point would fight for me and that entire rest of, you know. And that's when they also had a falling out. And to my knowledge, neither of them have spoken to each other since July of 2019.

[B]

Well, it sounds like. Because it sounds like you felt as though that anything you said to your birth mom or any questions you asked her, someone was going to turn around and tell your adoptive parents. Right. Sounds like. And it sounds like your birth mom also wanted to move in a different direction about, you know, you being able to feel open and ask the questions and her being able to actually be open with you and answer the questions truthfully without supervised the whole time. Almost like the vibe I get a lot, especially like, from adoptive parents that are super in religion and all these things, is it's just a huge control thing. Like, it just. Yeah, she. They. She just wanted to control all the conversations, know exactly what you were telling, what you were being told.

[C]

Oh, right.

[B]

Did you ever get the chance to Ask your aunt. Because it sounds, because it, it sounds like your aunt. So. No, no. So you're so your biological mom's mom. So it sounds like her mom and dad were a huge play in your mom deciding to do the adoption. Because have you ever, have you spoke to your birth. Have you asked her like, you know, if it was up to you back in the day, would you have parented or. Because it sounds like it was a lot of. Her parents were pushing her a lot to place you.

[C]

Yeah, I have. And I think she, she was honest with the fact that back then she didn't fight as hard, you know, I think because she knew, she knew that the decision was already made and that there was nothing she could do about it. And so for her.

[B]

Do you know, did they give her any, like, you know, if you decide to parent this baby, you can't live here or like hold things over. Yes.

[C]

And that said that they did.

[B]

I hate people.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, it was very much so. Like, well, if you have this baby, you can't live here anymore. You know, we're not going to raise your child for you. And it was just never. And I think one of the, and she's spoken to me too about one of the hardest things was that her parents had absolutely no faith in her. And it wasn't like, I mean, like my birth mom, she was good at school and she was in sports and she was in, you know, it wasn't like my, my if, in fact, even now, like, if I could say that, if there's one thing I've seen consistently about my birth mother, it is her ambition and it is her drive and it is her, please tell me I can't do something type of thing, you know, and my birth mom is very intelligent and she is, you know, she's gone to college for different things and she was a critical care paramedic for 11 years. Like, she quite literally saved lives for a living and she, you know, and she's very good under pressure and she's done all those things, you know, and so, and that's, you know, that's always been consistent. And I don't think she woke up one day and became that person. I think she always was that person. I think it's fair for her to be like, you know, you had no faith in me. Like, you, you even give me a chance. It was just like, well, if you keep this baby, then clearly we're going to be the ones raising it. We're not going to do that. So if you keep the baby You've got to be kicked out. And then it was, you know, that child's going to be taken by Texas CPS because you're going to be homeless with a baby, and then you're not going to be able to go to high school. And it was like all these different things, you know. And so it was just, you know, or she could make this decision where I went to be adopted by. By her aunt that she knew and liked at the time, and nobody really knew. And this is the. The part that's really hard for me is. Is accepting the fact that people were like, didn't know who my adoptive mother really was. And like, because that was really hard for me because I was like, either you have to admit that you didn't know somebody well enough and you just let them take this baby, or you knew who she was and you let her adopt anyway. Right? And. And it's just like, I can't buy the fact that you, like, because growing up and now even talking to my, my family now, like my extended family now is be like, oh, she's always been this way. Well, she's always been this way that you knew, like, you knew who. And so, like, that was one of the hardest things for me to come to terms with too. And I never really got to talk to my birth mom's mom about all these things, you know, before she died. She died after I turned 18 in March of 2020. And because of the time, March of 2020, like, we. Nobody really. They didn't really have. They had a funeral where it was like 10 people, whereas the closest people. And then that next July, they had a memorial service and I wasn't allowed to go. And my adoptive mother did ask me, she was like, do you want to go? And I just knew that it would be hell on earth if I decided to go, that everybody was going to be looking at me, that it was going to be that with this most recent falling out between my birth mom and that was her mother's memorial. And I was like, I got to let her have that. I was taking on so much that wasn't mine to bear at 18 years old. And I still lived with my adoptive family then because the age majority In Alabama is 19, not 18. And that. Yeah. And so that was used against me a lot. They were trying to get conservative ship over me. There's a lot of moving pieces to this that I feel like we don't have time for. But I, I will say my adoptive mother kept me on psych med withdrawals. For about two years, give or take. And so, yeah, on segment withdrawal. So like, she would give me. So I mean, we're talking about like meds for like bipolar that I was incorrectly diagnosed with and, you know, all of these different things that, you know, I'll keep to myself, but like all of these medications where I essentially had like a gallon sized bag of like both medications for like my chronic illnesses and my mental health. And she would take like these psych meds and she would give them to me for like four days in a row and take them back for four days in a row, which if you know anything about psych meds, you know, is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Or she would take like the time release pills, like the sleeping pills that are like time release. She would cut them in half and she would give me like half of it or whatever, you know. And so again, it was just like playing with fire. And she would be like, well, clearly your psych meds aren't helping if you're behaving this way, so we're just not going to do them anymore. And then she'd be like, okay, fine, like I'll give them back to you, you know, And I didn't know and I wasn't allowed to have Internet access anyway, you know what I mean? And so it's not like these things were things that I was googling or things that I was trying to figure out by myself. I mean, I was taking pieces of information from every doctor's appointment or every, you know, whatever, until I got my birth mom on the phone one time and I told her what my adoptive mother was doing. I was like, it's really irritating because she won't give these meds a chance. And my birth mom was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, she's giving me the meds and then taking them away and then giving them to me and taking them away. And my birth mom explained to me how dangerous it was. And so eventually my adoptive mother would give me these meds again. I would take them and I would stash them away and I kept them. And I was, I was very trigger warning. I became very suicidal. And so not only was I not taking these meds for the sake of like, you know, just staying sane and not being on psych med withdrawals, I was also stashing them away to like get a certain amount, you know what I mean? And my adoptive mother eventually found them. I. She did not care about anything. Like, I mean, I went to a new therapist at One time that was required after I got out of one of the mental hospitals and they had filled out this paperwork, you know, and one of the questions. I don't remember anything else on it, but one of the questions on there was, has this person ever, like, desired or expressed. Do you have any reason to believe that this person wants to kill themselves? And my adoptive mother wouldn't let me see the paper before we went into that therapy session. And so when it was just me and me and the counselor, and he was like, did you read this? Do you agree with everything on it? You know, and I was like, oh, I don't know. She wouldn't let me see it. And he was like, oh, well, that's not. You kind of have to. You know what I mean? Like, what do you think? Is this accurate assessment? And I looked at it, and I started reading it, and when I asked that question, do you have any reason to believe this person wants to kill themselves? She literally. She wrote, and I quote, well, she says there is, but there's no proof of that.

[B]

And I'm seeing.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And I looked at my therapist and I said, what mother takes a chance like that? Like, what mother takes a chance like that? And I said, this is why she is not and ever will be my mother. And he was like, well, that's a lot to unpack. Let's start there.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. Well, guys, that's a wrap for today's episode, but we're just getting started. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of this important conversation. If you thought today's episode was intense, wait until part two. Next week, we dive deeper and cover things we simply couldn't fit into one episode. Make sure you're following the podcast so you don't miss it. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, leave a rating and please share it with someone who needs to hear it. We'll see you next week for part two. Until then, take care of yourselves, and thanks for listening.

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