Unconditional Love, Empathy & Human Connection with David Shane

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cate & Ty Break It Down

Episode Title: Unconditional Love, Empathy & Human Connection with David Shane
Release Date: June 25, 2025
Host: PodcastOne
Guest: David Shane

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Cate & Ty Break It Down, hosts Catelynn (Kate) and Tyler Baltierra welcome David Shane, a passionate content creator and adoptee, to discuss his profound journey of adoption, self-discovery, and the complexities of reconnecting with his biological family. The conversation delves deep into themes of unconditional love, empathy, and human connection, offering listeners an intimate look into David's life beyond the adoption narrative.

Background of David Shane

David Shane introduces himself as an advocate for humanity, mindfulness, and love. Three years prior to the episode, he began creating content focused on capturing strangers' expressions of love and positivity. About a year ago, he decided to share his personal adoption story, highlighting his unique upbringing with adoptive parents who prioritized emotional intelligence and communication.

[02:17] David Shane: "My name's Dave. In terms of the Internet, how I'm known is for creating content about humanity, mindfulness, love, kindness, and human connection."

Adoption Story and Upbringing

David recounts his adoption experience, emphasizing the supportive environment provided by his adoptive parents—professionals in mental health fields. From a young age, he was aware of his adoption and felt no sense of neglect or abandonment, thanks to the unwavering love and open communication from his parents.

[03:31] David Shane: "I never had unanswered questions as a child or that feeling of neglect or abandonment because I had so much love."

Meeting Biological Family

In 2015, David's life took a pivotal turn when he unexpectedly connected with his biological mother through a phone call. This revelation led him to uncover the circumstances of his birth, including the existence of a biological sister. The reunion process was emotionally intense, bringing forth a mix of joy and profound sorrow.

[11:03] David Shane: "She goes, I'm your biological mother."

Emotional Impact and Struggles

David opens up about the emotional challenges he faced upon meeting his biological family. Despite a loving adoptive upbringing, the encounter stirred complex feelings of identity, belonging, and the innate worry his biological parents held for his well-being. The episode highlights the delicate balance adoptees often navigate between their adoptive families and biological ties.

[06:03] David Shane: "I think it's something that every biological parent deals with. You wake up every day thinking about your child."

Navigating Relationships

The conversation explores the strain that re-establishing connections with biological siblings can introduce. David shares his struggles with setting boundaries and managing his relationship with his biological sister, who desires a closer familial bond. This dynamic underscores the unpredictable nature of reunions and the importance of respecting personal boundaries.

[21:06] David Shane: "It's like, you're not so interested, all love, but you're comfortable doing that. It translated into you don't love them."

Advice to Adoptees and Adoptive Parents

David, alongside Kate and Tyler, offers insightful advice for both adoptees and adoptive parents. Emphasizing unconditional love, open communication, and emotional support, they discuss the essential elements that contribute to a healthy adoption experience. The trio underscores the significance of creating a safe space for adoptees to explore their identities and connections without fear of judgment or rejection.

[48:45] Tyler: "The greatest thing you could do as a parent is shower that child with unconditional support, love, and acceptance."

The Role of Social Media and Public Scrutiny

David addresses the challenges of sharing personal adoption stories on social media, highlighting the lack of understanding and judgment adoptees often face online. He commends Kate and Tyler for their vulnerability and the positive impact of their content in fostering empathy and reducing stigma around adoption.

[63:06] Tyler: "It's because of them. Their unconditional reinforcement makes me such an empath and about humanity."

Closing Thoughts

As the episode concludes, David reflects on the fleeting nature of life and the importance of overcoming fear to seek meaningful connections. He emphasizes the need for support systems for adoptees reconnecting with their biological families and the enduring impact of understanding and compassion in these journeys.

[57:20] Kate: "The opportunity that's there is joy in learning something new because we always try to teach them, like, even though you're scared, like on the other side of it could be amazing and beautiful and joy."

Notable Quotes

• David Shane [02:17]: "I never had unanswered questions as a child or that feeling of neglect or abandonment because I had so much love."
• Tyler [48:45]: "The greatest thing you could do as a parent is shower that child with unconditional support, love, and acceptance."
• Kate [57:20]: "The opportunity that's there is joy in learning something new because we always try to teach them, like, even though you're scared, like on the other side of it could be amazing and beautiful and joy."

Conclusion

This episode of Cate & Ty Break It Down offers a profound exploration of adoption, highlighting both the joys and the emotional complexities involved in reconnecting with one's biological roots. David Shane's candid storytelling, combined with the empathetic guidance of Kate and Tyler, provides valuable insights for adoptees, parents, and anyone interested in the human aspects of family and identity.

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Connect with David Shane:
Find David on all his social media platforms under the name David B. Shane for more heartwarming content about love and human connection.

Transcript

[Kate]

Foreign, everybody. Thank you so much for coming back to another episode of Kate and Ty. Break it down. Today we have David Shane, which I'm so pumped about. We connected social media. I saw the first video I saw of yours was Adoption Story Number One. Because at first I saw. It's funny because I actually did see some of your content before that, but I didn't know who you were. And then I saw it and I'm like, man, that sounds familiar, the voice. And then I was like, holy shit. Crazy. Yeah, like, it's you.

[Tyler]

And then when you reached out, my mind was blown. I think I told you this initially that I was a quiet, I guess, like, super fan of T. Yeah. On. On mtv. And I had followed you guys. I think it was pretty, like, religiously. Like I said, it was under the table. I couldn't tell any of my friends.

[David Shane]

Right, right.

[Tyler]

It was kind of like a full circle moment where it brought me back to those times. I'm like, this is crazy. In the present, talking to Tyler.

[Kate]

So how old are you?

[Tyler]

I'm 42 now.

[Kate]

Okay. Okay. So we're about 10 years at difference. I'm 33.

[Tyler]

Okay. How. How old. How long ago was. Was Teen Mom?

[David Shane]

16 years ago.

[Tyler]

16 years ago.

[David Shane]

So 2009.

[Tyler]

So I was 20. Does that make me 25?

[Kate]

So you're your mid-20s? Okay, yeah.

[Tyler]

Oh, God. So I was obsessed at 25.

[Kate]

Listen. No, but honestly, I've heard a lot of. I mean, I think it comes down to just like, you know, I mean, Teen mom is a whole different thing on its own, but we were the only, like, adoption story on there. So I've had a lot of people older than you, younger than you, say, like, hey, I literally only watched it because I was an adoptee, and I never got to see any kind of, you know, anything to do with birth parents in their perspective. So, like, you're not. You're not the first.

[Tyler]

Maybe that's what. Why I gravitated and felt connected. It's hard to recall now, but it was probably because of that.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah. Because I think a lot of people will say, like, you know, we hear stories and stuff, but a lot of adoptees would, like, you know, I watch specifically, I would just fast forward to everyone else because I just wanted to see what, you know, the birth parent journey was like. So not the first person that I've actually heard that from.

[David Shane]

But so for people that don't know who you are, like, who are you? What are you known for? And kind of a little bit about your Background?

[Tyler]

Yeah. So my name's Dave. I guess in terms of the Internet, how I'm known, if you will, is about three years ago, I started creating content all about humanity, mindfulness, love, kindness, human connection.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And so I took out my phone and started going around asking people to share three things they love about each other, themselves. In doing that, it's taken me on this journey, you know, capturing, you know, strangers in public all over. And then from there, it was probably like a year ago. I decided to share the story of my experience being adopted. Close adoption at birth, but I think a very unique one, if you will, being that I was raised by basically, meet the fuckers, a sex therapist and a guidance counselor.

[David Shane]

No way.

[Tyler]

Yes. Wow. And so that's unique in itself. But what they really prioritized, I think, from as early as even two, three years old, was emotional intelligence and communication and taking the time to explain things to me. I think even if I didn't have the ability at that age to process and fully understand, but they did it in the best way they knew how. And so I never had unanswered questions as a child or that feeling of neglect or abandonment, at least that I can recall, because I had so much love.

[David Shane]

Wow.

[Kate]

So you knew you were adopted from the early. As early as you can remember.

[Tyler]

Correct. So, like, even I can. I have memories in middle school of, you know, classmates and friends who, I guess, came to know this. I don't know how, if it came up in discussion, parents, whatever. And they had lots of questions. Some, I'm sure, teased me or, you know, you don't have real parents, you know, the cruel things kids could say. But I was almost immune to it because I didn't differentiate between the two. I had so much love. The fact that I didn't come out of her womb still mom, you know, still love.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

So it was. Yeah. Fascinating.

[Kate]

So it sounds. I mean, so coming from what you're saying, it sounds like you had a really good, positive adoption experience growing up.

[Tyler]

Incredible.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Tyler]

I think it was as great as it could go. Just being that I had an upbringing full of love, unconditional, very nurturing. Parents always believed in me. I never felt like I didn't have anywhere to go or anyone to turn to. And I definitely struggled. I think a lot of people that are adopted, and I can't really speak for everyone, only my own experience.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

But I think what's really trying on the human mind, and it can come and ebb and flow throughout life, different stages. I think things can trigger it is just reflecting on that and thinking about the whys and the hows and the what's. And so throughout life, my parents reinforced to me, hey, if you ever want to connect with your biological parents and find out who they are, we won't be offended. We'll encourage you to do that. We'll support you and we'll help you find them.

[David Shane]

That's so healthy.

[Tyler]

Oh, my gosh. But in my mind, understanding humanity even from an early age and being raised to be very empathetic, I know my parents are professionals in the mental health field and I trust that what they're saying is true. But just like they probably had underlying concerns of if I were to connect with my biological parents, would that emotionally throw me, how would I respond and react in life? I worried about them too. Would they feel neglected? Would they feel like, does he maybe not love us? What's sparking him now to want to connect with them? So I think throughout time when I was younger, that was never a thought. The way I processed it was, I have so much love for my biological parents despite not knowing them because they gave me the greatest gift. They made the most selfless decision that I can't imagine mother and father would be faced with making, Having to give up the most beautiful thing you've created.

[David Shane]

But I see you getting emotional.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I get very. Yeah. Emotional person. But it's the reason I get emotional is just trying to put myself in a mother, father's shoes who has to make that decision. You guys have been there. It's. People can't understand what that's like. I can't understand what that's like. But getting to connect with my biological parents, you know, in recent years, it was eye opening to hear from them how every day and every night for a period of over 20, 30 years, always on the forefront of their mind when they woke up or went to bed or throughout the day. How is he? Yeah, is he okay?

[David Shane]

Always. I think it never stops. I think for birth parents, like, that's something that never goes away. And for me, like, I tell Ty, I said, like, you know, now that our adoption is closed, like, there's a part of me that being a birth mom, I feel like it's a pain. And it's a deep rooted pain that even if we reconnect in the years, I think it's still just a pain that I will carry for the rest of my life. And I tell Ty all the time, I'm like, and even if there is an afterlife, I think it's Something I will carry with me there, too.

[Kate]

Yeah, I think it's something that people, like, assume, like, oh, well, you can. Like, I think as birth parents, we hear a lot. Let's move on. Let it go. Wait for them stop, you know, just let it go. And it's like. Like, how do you. It's something you literally can't just let go. It's, It's. It's something that I think every biological parent deals with. You wake up every day like your parent. Like, that's exactly what happens. It feels, it's a. It's in the forefront of your mind constantly. And I think probably even more intense for your bio parents because it was closed and they had no, you know, the questions of, you know, how is he? What's he doing? Like, we. We were blessed enough to have some of those answers as she grew up, you know, until obviously it closed. But, like, I couldn't imagine that. That feeling of, like, us asking those questions and not knowing, you know, like, that's intense.

[Tyler]

The way I would compare that kind of concept. And this isn't to in any way minimize what that's like in your experience or any parent that's had to make that selfless decision. But the way I kind of see it, it's one of those things that unless you're dealing with it, you can't understand. And it's not something that you can just instantly work through like a light switch and say, okay, I'm not going to worry about this. I'm going to disconnect emotionally and be fine. But the way I would kind of compare it is when we lose loved ones in life. Right. A lot of us as human beings, that reshapes the rest of our existence from that point forward, we lose parts of ourselves every day. We can think about the times we had together, miss them, and we can grieve in perpetuity, but to the point where it's inhibiting our ability to function. I think it in. In for most of us, you have to find a way to give new meaning to it and let pieces of it go, but assume the best. That person who's not here with us anymore, we love them just like they loved us unconditionally. And all they would want is to see us smiling and happy and doing good for ourselves just like we would want for them.

[David Shane]

Absolutely not.

[Tyler]

Not that that makes it any easier. Right, Right.

[David Shane]

But it helps. It helps, I think, you know, finding the.

[Kate]

Finding, almost finding the purpose in the pain, because the pain's not going anywhere.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And of, you know, when you sever these biological DNA connections, it's. It's. It's something that just. You can't just let go.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Kate]

And you know what healing is? It looks different for everybody. And I think healing can look like finding purpose in the pain. And I think that, you know, I'm assuming before you reached out or connected with your biological parents, I'm pretty sure that they tried to find the purpose and the pain or trying to find it, but. So how old were you, though, when you actually connected with them?

[Tyler]

So this is a crazy story. So, like I said, throughout my life, I'd always known I was adopted, that I have biological parents that are out there or, you know, I never thought, oh, they're not alive. I assume they're out there and doing well. Just assuming the best.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So Fast forward to 2015. I'm living in West Palm Beach, Florida, and I'm living in a small little community. My parents have a townhouse on one side, and I'm renting an apartment on the other side. And I go over their house one day to drop off groceries. I had never answered the landline phone at their house. So I walk in the door, my dad's in one recliner, my mom's in the other. She's reading her Kindle. He's got the iPad checking white socks scores. And the phone rings as I'm carrying in the groceries on the tv. I guess they had their caller ID set up. So I see on the caller ID what looks like an out of state area code number. I said, who's calling you? You want me to answer? Because now I'm in the kitchen. They said, oh, to telemarketer, let it be. We're fine. I said, no, you're not fine. They're not going to harass my parents.

[David Shane]

Right?

[Kate]

Right.

[Tyler]

You know, well, I'm here. I'm gonna stick it to them. So I answer the phone and I said, hello. And there's a woman on the other end of the phone. She goes, may I speak with David Shane, please? That's weird. So I said, speaking. She goes, were you born in Hoffman estates, Illinois, in 1983? I said, who the fuck is this?

[David Shane]

Right?

[Tyler]

She goes, I'm your biological mother.

[David Shane]

Whoa.

[Tyler]

I said, what? And so my parents overhear this in the background, stop what they're doing. And I know they're on heightened alert now. This is probably their worst fear. Is there?

[Kate]

Yeah, right, right.

[Tyler]

Not knowing, is this gonna emotionally throw me what's gonna happen? So, you know, I. I respond with listen, thank you for reaching out. It's not an opportune time to talk. This is my parents house. You're calling on their landline, right? Why don't you give me your contact info. I'm gonna go home. I'll call you because there is some questions I want to ask you about medical history, mental health, various things that I need to know. Yeah and she says certainly I just want to let you know I'm not calling to intrude on your life. There's some information and things I need to share with you. She said okay. So got off the phone, my parents first response was are you okay? So I reassured them, hey, I'm good. I am going to reach out and call. I want to hear about the history but I can assure you I'm okay and if I'm not, I'll let you know.

[Kate]

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[Tyler]

No.

[Kate]

How did they get the number? Like that's so great.

[Tyler]

So what ended up happening was I called her when I got home and she basically revealed to me that her and my biological father, the circumstance of how this unfolded was they were younger, he was in the military, he had already had two daughters of his own with another woman and he was active duty. So I can't remember what was going on at that time, but he was getting shipped overseas and stuff and so they had broken up, they were on and off. They break up, he ends up coming back into town. I don't know if they're living in Chicago or Maryland at the time. And they started talking, maybe had a one night fling, whatever. She ends up getting pregnant and at the time she was taking care, I think of an elderly parent, a father, mother, but all of the things going on in her life weren't ideal to give a child the life she'd want. You know, granted all the love's there but she, I think at that moment in time said hey, my responsibilities and attention has to be given to all these other things and don't know that I have the ability to give the love. I would really want to give to this child. So my father at the time says, listen, I already have two other daughters. This is your decision, your body, your choice. I'll stand behind you with whatever decision you make. So they made the difficult decision being that he was tied up in the military and they didn't have a sound home and everything intact at the time to give me up for adoption. So it was actually two years later that they ended up reconnecting, got back together. It might have been a little sooner that they got in a relationship, but they ended up having a daughter. Wow. And they've been married ever since. So the whole reason they reached out was to tell me, listen, you have a sister and she doesn't know about you. We've never told her that she's got a biological brother that we gave up for adoption.

[Kate]

Full biological. Which is very rare for adoptees.

[Tyler]

Right.

[David Shane]

To have, but not, not alone. Like you have a full biological. But you have two other sisters too, through him, through your dad. Right. Because you said he had two daughters.

[Tyler]

Technically, and I've never met them.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So I technically do.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And.

[Tyler]

But what she went on to explain is that all of their life, obviously something that they've grappled with on the forefront of their mind was worrying just, how is. How's he doing? Is he okay? That's all they want to know. His parents, that he's loved, he's good and he's okay.

[David Shane]

Well, yeah, because with closed adoptions, like, we're just. Your birth parents are stuck with all the what ifs. We don't know where you're at, who you're with or anything.

[Tyler]

No. And I think as. As humans and when you have that biolog connection, there's this innate love and worry that you can't turn off, Right? Yeah, absolutely. And. And so she said that even though they have a daughter and a family and a life, it was always on their minds, worrying and wondering. And I guess because of social media, started playing detective, searching. They knew, I. I guess like maybe the first name in my mother's maiden name.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

That they had certain information. So they went on Facebook and eventually found, I guess my mom's page and was searching and saw a picture of a boy on it.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

And she was able to say, that's my son.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You know, I see the resemblance. So from there I got to learn about medical history. You know, I asked all sorts of questions. Do you have any struggles? This, that and the other. Granted, I think there was a lot of uncomfortability on her end. Because it's the first time you're talking to your son, you want to put your best foot forward.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Yes.

[Tyler]

And all these things, but yeah. Learned I had a sister who's living in Pittsburgh and then from there we. We connected. It was about a month later I flew her down.

[David Shane]

Your birth mom?

[Tyler]

No, my sister.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And it was fascinating because we learned how nature versus nurture impacts us all so differently. But there was a lot of similarities in terms of our thought processes and different things.

[David Shane]

Wow.

[Tyler]

How we think, where we're like, man, we're really similar. This is cool, right? But it was also very, very heavy because that first time she came down FaceTimed her parents, and that's when I got to see him for the first time.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Tyler]

And it was with her.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Because, you know, part of this whole journey in connecting with them and learning of a biological sister, it's. It could be a lot emotionally and I can imagine.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

But as a lifelong people pleaser and someone that's just been conditioned, I think, to connect with people easily but really try to be mindful of others emotions. Yeah, it was hard, but I. I couldn't imagine what it's like to be in their shoes, you know, all these people's shoes. And so I wanted to afford them opportunity to get to see sister and brother together.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Some closure. That's got to feel good, you know, as a mother and father. And I think it was it, you know, and then it was probably like a year and a half later I was up in Pittsburgh and I went with my sister to meet them for the first time.

[David Shane]

Wow. And how did that go?

[Tyler]

It was very heavy. Emotionally. I wasn't prepared. I thought I was, but. But inevitably, the more you connect and just have conversation and spend that time, your brain wanders and you think and you wonder what were these people like, what my life had been and all this. And I think when it was all said and done, I know that it was something that they needed, getting to talk with them both individually, that it was a worry they had for their life, you know, their entire life. And what a blessing to see, you know, their biological son and daughter both healthy, connected, knowing about each other. And then I also tried to reinforce to them and communicate the best I could of how much love I have for them. And just that if there's ever a moment where you're feeling like guilty as a parent, just know that I've had the greatest life. One that I don't know that anyone else could have given me, you know.

[David Shane]

And I bet for your birth mom and your birth dad, that has to heal a part of their soul. Knowing that you had such a great life with such great adoptive parents that loved and adored you and raised you to be empathetic and, you know, loving to the world like I could, that's gotta heal a part of them too.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I think as parents, you're proud.

[David Shane]

Yeah, Right, right.

[Kate]

When you, when you said, like, you know, you thought you're prepared, but you weren't like, what is that? What do you mean by that? Like, you thought like, all right, I'm good, I got this. And then it was just more intense than you expected, or so.

[Tyler]

You know, the interesting thing I think about life is until we really experience something firsthand, we can try to speculate and assume, prepare ourselves, what's this going to be like, but we have no idea. And I think that I had always assumed, based on my upbringing, my understanding of, like, psychology and myself, this whole situation that I've experienced, that, hey, if I meet my biological parents, I'm good. You know, like, I'm, I'm good. There's no confusion. Yeah. But the fascinating thing about that is once I. I met them and everything, it just starts to make you maybe take on a perspective and reflect on emotions that you didn't know were present.

[David Shane]

I was gonna say, I feel like you can, you can walk into something like that feeling like you're very prepared, but then it just brings up so many emotions and so many different questions that it's got to be overwhelming. A little bit.

[Kate]

Very.

[Tyler]

And I think for me, in this whole experience where it became much more kind of like complex for me was having a biological sibling. And I know there's a deep rooted love there and connection, but there's a lack of understanding. I don't think she has the ability to understand what it's like to be me who's adopted.

[David Shane]

She won't.

[Tyler]

Can.

[Kate]

Yeah, she doesn't. Yeah.

[Tyler]

And. And some of us, and it's not necessarily a negative, don't even have the desire or, or even the ability if someone presented it to us, to try to want to understand. Right, Right.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So I think from her shoes, this whole experience was, oh, my God, I have an older brother, a biological brother. Now is an opportunity for us all to be a family and connect, and I want you to meet my relatives, all out of love. And it's well intended, but I think that's where it became trying and difficult for the relationship as a whole.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Because that's where I encountered volatility emotionally.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And said, hey, I'm not prepared, nor do I want to take that on. Not out of spite or resentment.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

I have great parents, I love them. I have great family. I love you.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

But you got to respect these boundaries. I don't want to pursue those relationships and everything. And so, yeah, I think it got a little messy there with push and pull with our relationship as siblings, where she wants me to spend time with mom and dad, you know, become closer, pursue this relationship. And I'm saying, not interested, all love, but I'm comfortable doing that. I think that translated into you don't love them or. Or almost.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Kate]

Yeah. When in fact had to been really hard because you're over here like, no, I swear, I'm just like, that's a. I'm not ready for that.

[Tyler]

And that's something, you know, my sister Molly lives in Pittsburgh. It's something we haven't been able to sit down and talk about. And our relationship, I'm just very open.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Our relationship, I feel like, has been strained in many ways because there's unspoken words and communication that has yet to be had about some of these sensitive things where we both come from very different upbringing. And I don't have the ability to understand what it's like to be you.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And the life you've lived in that relationship. Nor do you have for me.

[David Shane]

No.

[Tyler]

But with that said, I would hope that at some point we could get to a place where beyond the inability to understand, we accept, we respect, and we say, hey, I'm not capable of understanding, but I love you.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Or even getting to a place of where like, like you said, having a face to face conversation and just you laying out boundaries as the adoptee, like, hey, we can still communicate and have a relationship, but if you don't feel comfortable getting super involved with other people, like, that's fine too. Because like, we've learned through, like just speaking to like adoption therapists and stuff like that for adoptees, they say, like, it's like you go through reunion, you meet your birthing stuff and it's exciting and it's an emo, it's very emotional. And then the adoptee needs to take a step back to process all these feelings and thoughts and emotions and. And then sometimes they come back and they learn a little bit more and then they step back to process it again. Like it's.

[Kate]

And the more they learn, the kind of. The more they.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Make boundaries.

[David Shane]

Yeah. It's like an ebb and flow, you know. And it makes sense because you know, even though you had this beautiful amazing life, it still has got to just be sad and overwhelming with certain aspects of just being adopted and meeting all these different people.

[Kate]

Well also like you said earlier, like being a people pleaser and stuff like you know, which, which, which makes a lot of sense and I can relate to and it's actually super common. A lot of adoptees feel that way and we're still learning about like the pre verbal trauma that babies go through and stuff when they're maternal separation and all that kind of stuff. But I think you bring up a good point. As in like listen, like I. There's an, there's an unnecessary pressure almost in a way especially when your biological siblings say oh my gosh, my dream, but this is my dream sighted obviously. And like you said, it all comes out of love. But at the same time I'm the one that has to deal with all this like heavy stuff. I mean to think about even to even think about a life you could have had or would have had or all this stuff it's got, it's so overwhelming that I don't think people who aren't adopted, they just never will, they'll never get it.

[David Shane]

They never will.

[Tyler]

The thing that stood out to me as a young boy, I can remember as early as kindergarten when I would go to school, all I wanted was for every kid to be so happy and feel loved and ensure that they're loved, they're happy, they're happy because that's what I had at home. But I don't know if this was my brain's chemistry coming to this world where there was a deep rooted fear of abandonment or something that was just naturally present when I was met with other children or people that were sad, unhappy or in turn weren't kind and were rude. I want to dedicate all of my time to changing that about them and making them feel good. Even if that meant subjecting myself to bullying or whatever. And I can remember sleeping over at friends houses. Granted I had the most loving parents, but anytime I was sleeping over at somebody else's houses, even if they didn't have a close knit family or whatever, in my mind I envied what they had. I said I wish I had this, this loving family and all this and I reflect back on that and I say there was quite a disconnect there.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Because the very thing that I was idealizing and dreaming of was present and I had all that and that Makes me wonder, was that this subconscious, deep rooted thing?

[David Shane]

I think it is.

[Kate]

I think it is interesting that you mentioned that you said your mom's a therapist. So I wonder, I'm curious on her, on her studies or if she's ever delved into that space of, of what adoptees and what the statistics are. I mean they're through the roof about a lot of these abandonment issues, the mental health stuff. I mean they're a minority group. They, they are represent 2% of the whole world's population. And yet we're still learning about how pre verbal trauma affects the development of the brain and the baby. And I think it's interesting that you would have that perspective because you're saying I had a great life, why would I go spend the night at someone's house? And almost like it's like it's one of those things about your body keeps a score, like your body remember the trauma thing.

[Tyler]

I'm able to interject kind of like logic and step back and say, okay, well that doesn't make sense. That's not what was really transpiring. But what I've come to accept is as a human and as a baby, things can happen to us. And science has proven that where we can come into this world already impacted by our ancestors, a certain set of brain chemicals and trauma. And I think that's just it. You know, I had a fear of abandonment and as I went through life, even though I was equipped with this great upbringing, all the tools and I think, oh, I'm a great communicator, I experience a lot of challenges in relationships, especially intimate ones, and even friendships where I could struggle to deal with disappointments or people doing things that maybe revealed to me that they're not so loving or they don't care about me. But it was my inability to have the right tools to be able to process things emotionally in a healthy manner, control my response, regulate my nervous system. And so I've always wondered, obviously it can be varying degrees for different people depending on the circumstance, but what percentage of people that are adopted struggle with these things? Beyond lot what's happened in life, which.

[Kate]

Is what we've learned kind of doing this work. And honestly our whole goal is just to since adoptees only represent such a small percentage and they're the ones that are most affected by adoption in general, is the reason why we're trying to give a voice and just a place for adoptees to share their stories. Because I think it's important for the more we know, the better we can do.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Kate]

And I think if the more we know and recognize that adoptees share a very common, common struggles, we can do something to help that or you know, struggle. Yeah. To kind of figure out a way to like make this a little better experience. Because I think the whole point of it is, is that you did have a great adoption experience and that is, is, you know, it's great and. But a lot of people didn't and so if we can. Until every adoption kind of has a feeling. I think until every adoption is like yours.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Where the adoption says I had a house full of love and I was so loved and you know, got work to do. Yeah.

[Kate]

Until every adoption.

[Tyler]

But what's really eye opening as humans adopted or not something that universally we all struggle with is not feeling lovable or good enough. And in life as time goes on it gets harder. We experience more loss, heartbreaks, these things that make us take on these self limiting beliefs or question our identity. And I think with, with people that are adopted, you know, from the few that I've connected with, with sharing the story on social media, I was a police officer at one point in life and I had the opportunity to deal with a lot of kids in foster care. It seems like many people, regardless of their age and the experience, there's a lot of struggles with self worth being.

[David Shane]

Enough and I think that's human.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Just being human, you know. So question do you know. So when you were placed for adoption, was open adoption just not a thing or do you, do you know if like your biological parents didn't want to have open or if your adoptive parents didn't want to have any contact with your birth family?

[Tyler]

That's a, that's a great question. I, I don't know definitively on hand what, what the circumstance was, but if I had to guess, I think it was probably out of respect to both sides. I, I don't know who typically has control over that. Is it the person get placing Usually.

[David Shane]

Well the now newer days and age. Yes it was now is like the bio family has the chance to make that decision.

[Tyler]

Okay.

[Kate]

But none of it's law. The parents can.

[David Shane]

Yeah but there are, you know, even to this day there's some adoptive parents that want to adopt and they're like nope, we want closed or we want open. So it just really, really depends. Cuz what year were you born?

[Tyler]

83.

[David Shane]

83.

[Kate]

So I'm, I'm pretty sure a majority were closed back then.

[Tyler]

Okay.

[Kate]

And I think with new, with new data and new studies and new you know, things that we're learning a lot of. I mean, I think 90% of adoptions that happen today are open because the therapists are all like, hey, listen, this is, what's, this is what's shown to be the most beneficial for the adoptee.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

So I think it's interesting. So were you, do you know if you were placed through an agency or.

[Tyler]

Were you straight out of the hospital?

[Kate]

Interesting.

[Tyler]

So it was like, okay, day two.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I joke around when people have asked me this, this story. I said, oh, it was ebay. They did the buy it now.

[David Shane]

Right, right, right.

[Tyler]

Not the reserve, but no. Yeah, it was straight out of the hospital and I think it was. I would assume all of this was taken care of prior to the birth of the child. Me, but from what I understand, it was the second day in the hospital is when that your parents.

[Kate]

So, so you're. So your parents. Were they, were they, were they on a list? Were they. Like, how did, does any of that, do you know any of that story about how they came to actually adopt a child?

[Tyler]

You know what's really funny? I've never sat down with my parents and asked that story or that question.

[Kate]

It's an interesting story, cuz I'll talk about it for every adopt. And I always.

[Tyler]

Yeah, they. So my parents, prior to adopting me, had a biological daughter of their own.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And she now, so I'm 42. I think she's 60 or 61. So it's like an 18 year age gap.

[David Shane]

Oh, wow.

[Kate]

Okay. Well. Okay, so. Wow. Okay. So your, your, your mom wasn't, it's not like she struggled with infertility. They had. Eighteen years later they decided to do it all over again and they, so they chose not to do it biologically.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Kate]

That's interesting to me. And I wonder why that is.

[Tyler]

And then when I was 25 years old, I was living in Gainesville, Florida, which was about four hours from West Palm beach, where I was from and where they live. And I was working as a police officer. And my father was in his final years of teaching. He taught for like 40, 50 years. And his last five years he was a guidance counselor, which was different from him just being a teacher. And I got a call one day and I learned that I have another sister. And I said, wait, what? Yeah, so my parents, in my father's final years of teaching, he was a guidance counselor. And one of his students, I guess he came to find out through the discussions, you know, and sitting down, going over things that she had no parental Direction or guidance in her life. The relationship with the parents was severed at an early age. I'm not even sure if they were still living, if one was incarcerated or what it was. But she'd had a brother who she was in high school with, who was a very talented athlete and fell victim to peer pressure and outside influences. And he ended up getting tried as adult and going to prison for bringing something to school he shouldn't. Joining a gang.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

And so that destroyed his aspirations. But his sister, who was my dad's student, was still in school, getting ready to graduate, but didn't have the principal, direction, love, or guidance in place. I guess my father recognized she was very bright, intelligent, and her dream was to go on and kind of be like a guidance counselor too, and help people.

[David Shane]

Wow.

[Tyler]

And so I. I get think through that connection, learn more of the intimate details about her circumstance in life. And they must have built a relationship. And then so next thing you know, my parents are like, yeah, you got another sister.

[David Shane]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

And so that was pretty wild too.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And that was a whole nother experience for me because I can remember experiencing resentment and jealousy at the time. Granted, I was in law enforcement, and my mindset and who I was as a person was a lot less open and loving and because of, you know, just where I was at in life and my inability to probably deal with that at a young age. So I can remember being. Wait, what, what?

[Kate]

You're.

[Tyler]

And she's living in. In my room. She's in a house.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

I mean, my response was disgusting now when I look at it now, but I think it was just jealous. Like, I'm not gonna get all the love.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And there's a new star in town.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

You know, wow. But yeah, now, you know, they helped her graduate, she got a scholarships, and now she's a social worker.

[Kate]

Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

She lives in Virginia.

[David Shane]

So how awesome is that?

[Tyler]

And brother ended up getting out of prison. Doing great.

[David Shane]

Oh, good.

[Tyler]

Yeah. All's good.

[Kate]

Wow. So, so, so, so you never. It's so interesting because most, most adoptees are very interested in their origin story, their birth story, their adoption story. And I almost. It's. It's kind of cool that, like, you know, you, like. I haven't had that conversation with them yet. I have no idea. Because I always think, I find, especially with older adoptions, like, it. Was it through an agency, was it through a family lawyer, was it from a friend of a friend who said, hey, you know, and. But the fact that, you know, they could have children Biologically, but chose for 18 years later the second child. They weren't going to do that. That's really like. I'm so curious. I wish your parents were here.

[Tyler]

I. I think if I had to guess now, and they probably have told me bits and pieces, so. Both my parents have dealt with Crohn's disease from an early age.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Tyler]

My mom, it's been a lot more severe throughout her life. Like, she still to this day, she has to go get infusion. She's at the hospital every day, if not every other day. And she's had to try all sorts of steroids, but she's had 40 something surgeries on a large intestine.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Tyler]

And only has a few feet left now. So with her journey in Crohn's, it's a lot of scar tissue, inflammation, heavy on the body. My guess is she probably wasn't a candidate.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Tyler]

A typical pregnancy, right? The health risks.

[David Shane]

No, that makes sense. Yeah.

[Kate]

So 18 years apart, though, between your. That means you guys weren't really raised together at all. No, that is.

[Tyler]

Yeah. My. My memories and with my sister, my upbringing aren't till really later on in life actually going with my parents, probably when she was like 18 or 19, before she went on dates with guys. There was a couple times, and I don't think this is like a habitual thing, but there was a couple times where we kind of went as a family. Me, my mom and dad. We drove down to Miami where she was living. Yeah, it's kind of blurry, but we would go to her apartment, say hi, like, wait around, and then the guy would show up with like flowers.

[David Shane]

Oh, funny.

[Tyler]

We're there real quick, say hello.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I don't know if my parents like vetting them.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

But I can remember a couple of those.

[Kate]

And are you close with her now?

[Tyler]

No, we're not. So I have a niece. She lives in Florida. It's all love. But I think just because we were never close like that we've lived our separate lives. We get together on holidays, wish each other well, but not really, truth be told. Like, I don't really know her. And she probably really doesn't know.

[David Shane]

Well, I was gonna say, especially with being like 18 years of an age gap, like she. When you were born, she's just getting into adulthood, trying to figure out who she is, what she wants to do, living her life. I mean, I feel like that would be hard to kind of have a bond.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kate]

Did you ever. Now did she.

[Tyler]

Did.

[Kate]

What is her thoughts? Did she ever have any. Because I'm assuming when you like, hey, I, I, I have a biological sister full out there. Like did she have any thoughts about that?

[Tyler]

You know, that's a great question. We, like I said, not super close. So we've never sat down and had like a real in depth conversation about that. I don't know if emotionally that impacted her in any way, shape or form as a result, but something that as a people pleaser, something that's always been on my mind in navigating these relationships is not wanting to make anyone feel less than or there's a favorite. So what do I really mean by that? Posting on social media.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I've always been very careful about, and this is, might just be in my own head. Right. But about sharing posts or certain things, highlighting an achievement of one or a birthday, making it seem like I love them more. Granted, she may not be worried about that or perceiving it that way, but I've always tried to go out of my way to ensure that any of my sisters aren't feeling like they've one loves one more or one less.

[Kate]

Did your, did your parents ever meet your biological parents?

[Tyler]

No.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Tyler]

All right. So, so never met them. But I've, I've spoken to my, my parents in depth about that meeting. We've had in depth discussions about it all. Because something I thought was really important was, okay, I've, my parents know that I connected with my biological parents and the sister and all this, but I didn't want them to be in the dark because I know they probably have a lot of unanswered questions and worries not only about me, but who are they?

[David Shane]

Right.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And so I've brought them up to speed, kept them, you know, in tune with everything. It ebbs and flows. But there's times where I regret it.

[Kate]

Regret what?

[Tyler]

Sharing all that with my parents.

[Kate]

Oh really?

[David Shane]

Why is that?

[Tyler]

Part of my regrets at times is because like, even though they dedicated their life to the mental health field, if there's anyone that could be prepared for this, it's them. Right. Because they have all the expertise and understanding. We're still all humans.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You know, and we could be sensitive and yeah. I think there's, there's times where maybe they didn't share it with me, but I think inevitably they may be question because they're human. Does, does he love them more or what does he feel like there's worries. Right.

[Kate]

Yeah. So, but have you seen those worries, like externally? Like have they expressed anything to you that made you feel that, like.

[Tyler]

Oh, I've noticed. I mean, granted, they're getting older in life now. They're in their 80s. And their. Their life, it's changed a lot. It's trying to stay alive and take care of a lot of health issues or each other's caretakers. So with that, it seems like cognitively we experience a lot of regression and change. It's inevitable. So their ability to process emotions and things is definitely affected. But there's been a few conversations that we've had in recent years where they've almost revealed to me that they're questioning whether or not they were good parents.

[Kate]

Wow.

[Tyler]

And they gave me a good life. And in it. That's so upsetting to hear, but I'm like, what do you mean? You're the most loving parents. You were the greatest parents. I love you guys.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And I don't know if that's just like a worry.

[David Shane]

I think every parent. Yeah, I think every parent. And you're just sharing it.

[Tyler]

But. But in the back of my mind, I've wondered, did something that reinforced that. What was it, you know, this connection and sharing everything? Don't know.

[Kate]

Because how long have you been. How long have you been like, you know, how long has it been since you had the reunion with them?

[Tyler]

Well, that was 2015 that I found out about my biological parents for the first time. I met them in person. It was probably two years ago.

[Kate]

Oh, okay.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And then.

[Kate]

So it's fairly recent. And this is recent.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So I met them. I've met them twice in person.

[Kate]

Okay.

[Tyler]

It was with the first visit, and then it was for a birthday party. I think it was for. For my niece or my sister.

[David Shane]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And then actually it was like six months ago now. Biological mother randomly passed away.

[David Shane]

Oh.

[Tyler]

She. She fell, hit her head. Dad came home, had a heart attack.

[David Shane]

Wow.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Brain damage. So, you know, I was very fortunate get to meet him, but the. The third time was saying goodbye.

[Kate]

Oh, the third. Oh, wow.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Just recently, it's me visiting her in the hospital, saying goodbye with my. My sister and father.

[Kate]

Wow. Okay. Because I feel like that let alone is heavy and intense to deal with, but also as an adoptee who, like, just.

[David Shane]

Yeah, that's got all this.

[Kate]

I mean, that is super intense for you to be put in that position.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Kate]

I mean, especially with your sister who's Has a. Had a totally different, you know, connection with these people. I mean, that's. That's huge.

[Tyler]

It's put a lot of strain on the relationship with my. My biological sister. You Know, the truth is, I started sharing this story on social media, my journey with the adoption experience. And you know, in. In doing that, my. My. My hope for sharing that video was to make somebody out there feel less alone who's maybe had a similar experience or something different, which I can't relate to. But as I started to share that story, something I really thought would be important would be able to get my sister's experience, what it was like for here finding out, to offer a perspective that I never even probably got to hear firsthand. But I elected to pull back and table sharing that because I realized not everyone's comfortable sharing emotions. And this can get real messy. And I know that we all deal with loss and grief differently, and I truly believe that. What a blessing it was for my biological mother to get to know that I'm good, I'm healthy and happy. But the truth is her life did end very short, much shorter than probably expected. And I think in times of loss like that, we all reflect differently.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And it brings up a lot of things, all sorts of different. Just junk and crap and feelings and emotions.

[Tyler]

And so I felt like after that whole experience in that loss, you know, and we all deal with loss differently, kind of had to, like, pull back.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And that's okay.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

And that's okay.

[Tyler]

And that's a really important thing you just said. It's okay.

[Kate]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Tyler]

No matter what you're feeling, what you do, it's okay. And we don't always behave and do the things that somebody else expects, you know, and people can interpret things to be rude or insensitive, like, how could you not go to this? Or how could you not be there? But sometimes we got to protect ourselves.

[David Shane]

You have to always.

[Tyler]

Right.

[David Shane]

Always.

[Kate]

Kind of why we always say, like. Like, as far as if our biological daughter ever come to us, like our job as birth parents is to bow our heads in humbleness, hands behind her back, and let her either. Whatever it is, whatever it is, if it's, leave me alone. If it's, I hate you so much, you ruin my life. If it's, I love you so much, I miss you. This whatever it is, like, our duty is just to hold that space for her.

[Tyler]

Because accepting whatever it is, I.

[Kate]

And honestly, our unique situation, obviously being on tv, I couldn't imagine what it would be like as an adoptee to what? Like, you know, our biological daughter is the only adoptee that I know of that has gonna be able to witness the aftermath of 16 years of it, you know, not every adoptee gets to watch their birth parents grieve. And I feel like that is something that is. Could also be a blessing or it could be damaged.

[Tyler]

Okay. All of that was televised, you're saying?

[Kate]

Yeah. Ever since, you know, I mean, they.

[David Shane]

Would follow us after we left a visit and us just being in shambles, they would follow us.

[Tyler]

If you don't mind me asking, do you know if she's seen.

[David Shane]

I don't know if she has seen all of it. For a long time, they kind of sheltered her from the show, but now she is, you know, 16 years old, so she is seeing, I think, bits and pieces and stuff like that, but I don't really know as. I don't know how much she is.

[Kate]

Seeing of it, but, but yeah, I know that for her, like, I couldn't imagine, you know, being an adoptee and, and watching your birth mother in the hospital holding you as a baby, saying goodbye, like, that's, that's huge. And that's heavy. And that might be something that she don't want.

[David Shane]

It might be too much for her, too heavy for her to watch.

[Tyler]

But what's really such a blessing is that that is out there.

[David Shane]

Yep.

[Tyler]

And she'll get to make that decision because she's a young adult now, and as she grows into a, you know, the human that she's going to become, at any point, she. That, that that's available because some people don't have the ability.

[David Shane]

Yeah. It's wild.

[Tyler]

And I think what a blessing to know that it was all out of love.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Yes.

[Kate]

You know, so I think even adoptees wonder, like, why. Why me? You know, why? Especially when you have adoptees telling you that, you know, they're the only one out of seven kids plays for adoption. Why did you, you know, why did you parent other children? And that's kind of a situation that me and her in is we stay together. It's very rare for your biological parents to get back together. I mean, it's, it's just, it's not, it's. It's not heard of. It's so.

[Tyler]

And I think that experience separate from the child, the, the, the parents who are giving. Having to make that decision for whatever reason, to give a child up for adoption, that's going to put some serious emotional, like just lots of things on the relationship. I can't imagine.

[Kate]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think especially being 16, we're kids.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

Literally.

[Kate]

And especially, I think just coming from our backgrounds, you know, just the unstable addiction and just everything that was really, the callus and reason why we did it in the first place, it just creates a whole different type of, like, pressure. Almost like, we don't know. And honestly, just growing up in front of cameras, I mean, so, like. So I think for, you know, our biological daughter, she's going to be witnessing a lot of mistakes that we made, a lot of things growing up on, you know, 16 up. I mean, we literally, at this point, we've been on TV longer than we've not been on TV in our whole life. Like, it's.

[Tyler]

How old were you guys when you started on TV?

[Kate]

16. And it's still happening. Our finale just aired a couple of weeks ago.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

And so, like, you know, that's a whole different kind of, you know, experience that we're going to have to eventually have where it's like, we made mistakes. And I was going to ask you, like, what your. The parents who raised you, what was. What was. What did they get right, being adopted parents? Like, what did they get right, in your opinion?

[David Shane]

Like, if you could, like, if you could give advice to adoptive parents?

[Tyler]

I think adopt. Yeah. I think the greatest thing, beyond what's spoken by the child and what's communicated, the greatest thing you could do as a parent is shower that child with unconditional support, love, and acceptance. Make it a priority. Because. Because I'm not a parent, but I feel like that relationship with a parent and child, you obviously want your child to feel open, talking to you about anything and coming to you where you're. You're also friends, you wear separate hats. But that's not always the case. Some kids aren't comfortable. Right. Like, we rather share things with our friends. Tell mom and dad. But it's prioritizing that and saying, hey, I'm gonna do whatever I can as a parent to ensure that whether I feel like my child knows this or not, I'm never gonna stop communicating to them that they're loved. That if they ever have any questions, they ever want to meet these people, they ever want to know anything, that I'm in their corner and I'm their biggest advocate to support them in doing.

[David Shane]

This, making them feel safe and heard and loved.

[Tyler]

Right. Right. And that there will never be disappointment. That as a mother and father. Yeah. You'll never think less of them. It's just. Yeah. That unconditional reinforcement that they're enough, they're lovable, they're great. But. But I think it's like a step further. It's just. It's just the level of parenting. My Parents from an early age, you know, it's hard to be present as a parent. You got to figure out bills and all these things and you're doing. And then by the time you come home, you're stressed out.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And you don't want to deal and you don't want to play with the kid. You know, it's like, oh, God. But I think amidst all of the things you got to do, responsibility, struggles. My parents prioritized, loving me, spending time with me, talking, you know, they were just those parents that you see go to all the extracurricular activities, still traveling, even though they're struggling with finances and all these other things. How do you do that? I don't know. Yeah, everyone's doing the best they can. But I think as an adoptive parent, you know, if you want to provide love for a child and you're taking the step to be a parent and signing up for this and give them life, you need to do this. You need to go above and beyond. So, hey, you're too tired with your job, coming home at night, you know, and you don't want to play with the kid. Don't have the kid.

[Kate]

Right? Yeah. No, Right.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

But I think one that you mentioned that your parents did was that like, if you ever wanted to start, and you knew this from an early age, if I ever wanted to find them, search them for my biological family, they would support you in that.

[Tyler]

As early as. My mom told me this the other day because, like, I thought at seven years old was the time we had a sit down conversation on the bed. Like, I remember being like between probably 7 and 10 because it's blurry. But it was like after school one day and they sat down with me on the bed and I got to see my, my little outfit when I was a baby, my sock, then my birth certificate. And it was like a question and answer session. And I learned that there's a lot of conversations and questions I asked at earlier ages prior to that. But I can remember there was no fear and no worry in me asking these questions. And I understood, oh, okay.

[David Shane]

See, it's because they have always been open and honest with you and they communicated.

[Tyler]

When I was 3 years old, 2 or 3 years old, my mom told me, this is just recently, she goes, do you know when you were two or three, we were walking at a mall together and she's like. And I was holding her hand and there was a woman who was pregnant and she was showing like, her belly is really big. And you turned and looked at Me and said, did I come out of.

[Kate]

No way.

[Tyler]

Your stomach? Whose stomach did I come out of at?

[David Shane]

Wow.

[Tyler]

At three.

[David Shane]

See, that is because she probably talked about you being adopted around you.

[Tyler]

So. But. But when I heard this and understanding human beings, I said, listen, just because a child doesn't have the ability to communicate and ask these questions, it's in there.

[David Shane]

Yeah. They know.

[Tyler]

So we have to assume that these are worries and wonders of each kid. Reinforce it.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Two, three, one.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

I always say, like, for people, because some adults really don't think. They're like, oh, they don't remember that. They don't know this. Yeah. Yada, yada. And I always say, especially, like, us having, you know, four kids, but raising three kids are so smart. They're so smart. And if they don't pick up on, like, words yet, they're picking up on all the energies and stuff like that too.

[Tyler]

Just like Tyler said, a lot of our struggles and feelings and illnesses and all these things aren't visible.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

We're fighting battles and things that we internalize and never share with anybody. And I kind of think it's like dogs. So, like, my only experience with parenting is I got a one year old shiba inu puppy that I got when I was three months old.

[David Shane]

By the way, our daughter Nova's gonna be so jealous. This is her favorite breed. She wants a shiba Inu. Yes. So bad, but. Yes. She's gonna be so jealous.

[Tyler]

Handful, too. Yeah. But when I got this puppy with my girlfriend and I knew about the temperament and breed, and they're not the most affectionate and they're not gonna be lap dogs and sleep with you. Yeah. And that's the kind of dog I wanted. I wanted one where I'm gonna get to smother it with love for selfish reasons and feel like, oh, it loves me so much too, because it's lay in my stomach. So I didn't want to get a shiba inu because it's not gonna make me feel loved. It's not gonna let me, like, smother it. She wanted to get it. So I said, you know what? Forget what I know about this breed. I'm gonna pretend that this is a human and this is. I'm having a daughter.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So I'm gonna sing to it. I'm gonna tell it things. I'm gonna do all this. Yeah. Well, what is that dog now? It's got the shiba inu temperaments.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

The breed. But it's a baby and it loves me. And it lets it sing to me. I sing it lullabies.

[Kate]

I have another nature versus nurture example because the breed is supposed be to.

[Tyler]

To be this, like, I'm a softy. I can cry thinking about the dog. But, you know, as adoptive parents, I think what most people should just, you know, embrace the perspective and understanding that, hey, this child, regardless of whether they express to me they're good, they're not good, they understand, they don't have questions. Reinforce it.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

You know, like, do it anyway. Bring it up anyway, even if they're not asking questions.

[Tyler]

And before they can even talk and speak and do all that, tell them. Right, yeah, reinforce it, Remind them. And I think that's what my parents did. At least that's what they told me. They said even when I was a baby, they would sing to me, they would say things. And I think what they probably did was, you know, I was probably six months old and I have my mom reinforcing me or how loved I am.

[Kate]

Right.

[David Shane]

Isn't that beautiful?

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Thank God.

[David Shane]

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. And that's probably why just, you know, also your personality. But I think that's also why as you. You've grown up, you've been such an empath and about humanity, and that's why you do the type of content that you do on Tick Tock of people just loving people and loving themselves, and it's beautiful.

[Tyler]

It's because of them.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[David Shane]

That's what I mean. From them always putting it into you and reinforcing it. But also, I. I just want to say, like, I think I love hearing about your story and that you had such a great upbringing with adoptive parents. And one thing I did want to go back to before we leave, I want to. I just wanted to say from like a birth mom perspective that I. I'm so, so happy that you got to meet her before she passed because.

[Tyler]

Thank you.

[David Shane]

Tyler and I, we hear stories, so many stories of adoptees that'll be like, I found out who they were, but I was too nervous. I waited three months, then I reached out and found out they were dead. You know, or sometimes some of these are like, you know, I was going to go meet them and they died two days later or something. And it's just like, you never know when it's going to happen. And I have a feeling, I think that your birth mom, you know, could pass away with a sense of peace knowing that she did get to meet you and get all those what ifs kind of sort of answered and what.

[Tyler]

What you said, right. There is one of the truest things about this existence in life where especially in the adoption space, and you guys know probably better than anybody that there's so many adoptees and people at different stages of life where they have this curiosity and wonder, but there's fear. And fear can halt us from doing things. But in life, we know how fragile this is. If you don't take the time to sometimes make yourself uncomfortable, communicate feelings, questions, that opportunity can come and go.

[David Shane]

Well, we always, we teach our kids. We always say, like he always asks Nova, our oldest, you know, what is on the other side of fear?

[Kate]

I always ask, oh, she just gets kind of in her head. She's a lot like me.

[David Shane]

And so what do you tell her?

[Kate]

I say, what is on the other side of fear? And she says, discovery and joy and opportunity. And the opportunity that's there is joy in learning something new because we always.

[David Shane]

Try to teach them, like, you know, even though you're scared, like on the other side of it could be amazing and beautiful and joy.

[Kate]

Well, I pretty much always hear that, like fear, fear unfortunately is the enemy. And that is something that you have to really take seriously. But also you can't let it control your decision making because like we just talked about there, I, and I didn't know this until we started getting the adoption work that there were so many adoptees who reached out and said, I was so scared to hurt my adoptive parents feelings that I didn't say anything for years.

[Tyler]

And, and they neglected their own internally.

[Kate]

And they even said, and they even said I came from adoptive parents who said, if you ever want to, I will help you. So they're, it's a normal feeling thing that adoptees uniquely experienced. Yeah, they had the best adoptive parents. They're so loving, they're so understanding and they even preach like, please let us help you find them. But that internal fear of disappointing them or hurting them, so they waited so long to where they finally got the courage to do something and it's too late because their bio parents are now dead and they have no answers. And no. And I feel like that right there is what is at risk if you allow fear to dictate your decisions. In, in, in. That's why I always tell our kids, like on the other side of fear is opportunity.

[Tyler]

The, the, the, the toughest part. And, and this is like a big unknown. I, I think with that connecting with biological parents and everyone's different how you respond. But it's in the situations where the, the human, you Know, the adoptee is reaching out and connecting and it's not so favorable.

[Kate]

Right.

[Tyler]

You know, you're not so proud of the people they are.

[David Shane]

Right, right.

[Tyler]

And that's one of those things where, like, maybe there's no way of knowing this beforehand. It's kind of like a gamble. But that's where. And I don't know that anyone could ever be prepared. I think that's where it can get really messy.

[David Shane]

Yeah, of course.

[Tyler]

And really throwing a wrench and just our ability to think rationally, function rationally. When it's that type of situation, you reach out and connect and then you, you realize, wow, like, I'm, I'm ashamed or this isn't my fault.

[David Shane]

I feel like, and I, and I feel like, like I'm not an adoptee. But I feel like for those instances or anybody that is looking to reconnect with their birth family, I feel like the adoptee should have support.

[Tyler]

Right.

[David Shane]

You know, whether it's their therapist support or their parents support or something. Because like, that if they find, they reach out and they find out like, oh, they're not really healthy people.

[Kate]

And we've heard a lot of reunions where adoptees are like, this was not a good experience. And I also think that's important to talk about is that like, like as an adoptee who especially wonders and is curious about their biological family, there's a lot of fantasy involved and you kind of get a dream version of what these people might be like, and then that dream gets totally crushed. It's like to have as least amount of expectations as possible is the best, safest way to go. And don't, don't expect.

[Tyler]

There's no disappointment.

[Kate]

Yeah. And, and so I feel like it's important that like, and have a support system. And I also think it's important too to like, you know, understand that reunions with biological families isn't always the best. It's not. And sometimes, you know, but I also feel like the adoptee deserves the dignity to discover that for themselves. Even if the adoptive parents know they're going to find out they're not good people. Give them the dignity to discover that because that's has to be a part of their own journey and understanding that connection or whatever. And, but so another question I had was what, what could, since you experience reunion with your biological family, what could birth parents, what could they do better? What could they do to prepare for a reunion to make it as easy as possible for the adaptee?

[Tyler]

I think, like you said, it's developing Embracing a perspective and mindset that despite maybe having all these strong motions and feelings and questions and wanting to shower the adoptee with love and reinforce to them that, hey, I feel all this and that's not why I do this, it's their terms. And so you almost have to ensure that you're listening, respecting, accepting, and allowing them to move at their speed.

[David Shane]

Makes sense. Yeah.

[Tyler]

And I, I think the response that, that most people would want is the person to prioritize listening. You know, the parent, biological parent. But also, as humans, we don't like to be wrong. And I think there's probably circumstances that arise where a biological parent's connecting with the adoptee, and maybe the adoptee holds resentment, has anger, frustration, different things. Well, as a, As a, as a parent. Right. Especially a biological parent, that's probably the worst thing to hear, right? That this kid holds anger, this child that you brought in this world that you may love and have worried about how they're doing and all these things, and they're mad at you and see.

[David Shane]

And I feel like, as a birth parent, me and Ty always said, like, if Carly ever comes back and she does have anger, resentment, hurt, I'm going to sit there with my hands folded, listen and apologize. And then after she's done talking, say, is there anything I can do to help fix this? You know what I mean?

[Tyler]

Because. And that's, I think, the beautiful thing, I think where it could probably get messy is where, you know, a lot of us were inherently selfish, but when you're met with that, that's probably the worst thing you want to hear. What do you want to do? You want to convince, no, that's not true. But then you're dismissing, right? You're invalidating, and you're actually fueling the negative feelings and emotions.

[David Shane]

Yeah. So we've kind of prepared our. Herself for that. We're like, whatever she throws at us, we'll, Hands folded, sit there, listen and say, I'm sorry. What. What can we do to fix it?

[Kate]

Like, we always say, like, I think the best thing to, To. To say and just be prepared to say is I'm sorry and I love you. And that I think those two things are the safest responses. Because I feel like for a lot of adoptees who have this resentment and this anger, that is valid, right? That is really valid.

[David Shane]

And it's their feeling.

[Kate]

And I think, I think as biological parents, like, understand that their perception is their perception and that's. And that's real to them. So I think to try to, like, Justify, Explain reason. It's like, no, no, just fold your hands, bow your head and accept it.

[Tyler]

There is something that I want to say, because I know the Internet and social media, you know, we're basically one big audience or peanut gallery.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And we're judging people day in, day out based on what they share, what we see, how they're behaving, and oftentimes we think we know, especially when we're falling in love on this journey. But in the space that you guys are in, you guys have opened up your life to the general public for what, over a decade now?

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And you guys every day are doing what you love and I'm sure brings you fulfillment. First, what you're most passionate about and what people need to understand who are watching this is you may be a parent, you may be a child, you may be a brother or sister, you may be adopted or given somebody up for adoption, but you don't have the ability to understand who other people are just off a conversation and all this. And so I just want to tell you guys, I commend you guys for talking about, you know, a lot of these difficult conversations and topics that are hard to talk about, but for putting yourselves out there, you know, amidst all the scrutiny and the cruel Internet. Because I know you guys have emotions and feelings.

[Kate]

Oh, yeah.

[Tyler]

Especially when it comes to your children and the experiences you've been through, and that probably makes it that much harder. But, you know, I. I hope as people continue to follow you guys along and follow your journey, to know that everyone's doing the best they can.

[David Shane]

Right.

[Tyler]

And you guys are too.

[David Shane]

Yeah, everybody is.

[Kate]

Thank you.

[David Shane]

And I just want to say thank you for just coming and joining us and being vulnerable and sharing your experience.

[Tyler]

Of course.

[David Shane]

Like, really, I feel like the more that these things are talked about, the more we can kind of end certain stigmas, you know, which is super important to us. You know, we want to share all adoptee stories and. And for people to find you.

[Kate]

Yeah. Where do they find.

[David Shane]

Where can they find you at? Do you know your names?

[Tyler]

It's at David B. Shane. So David B as in boy. And then S H A N E. And. And that's every social media platform.

[David Shane]

And by the way, two guys like his Tick Tock is the most heartwarming content ever. Literally. I love it.

[Kate]

Just go. Follow.

[David Shane]

Yes.

[Kate]

Like, and share.

[David Shane]

Thank you.

[Tyler]

I appreciate it.

[David Shane]

Thank you so much.

[Kate]

Thank you guys.

[David Shane]

And I hope you do everything that you need to, to take care of yourself, even at, like, even if it is stepping away from your birth family for a while to just process things. And.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's.

[David Shane]

And I really. And I really hope that you and your biological bio. Bio sister have the time soon to talk face to face and talk about b. Yeah.

[Kate]

And if anything happens, let us know.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Part two.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I would love that. And I hope so too. And yeah. It's. Yeah. Thank you for holding this space. And yeah, I hope that anyone who can't relate to the adoption side of things or being a parent who tunes in and follows you guys understands that it's okay to not be okay with what you got going on. But there's no such thing as perfect. And we're all sitting here invalidating, dehumanizing and judging, looking for faults in one another. Right. But everyone's doing the best they can, you know, and yes. So let people live straight up.

[David Shane]

You hear what he. What he said.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And it takes a lot to put yourself out on the Internet.

[David Shane]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You know, and be judged. But Tyler and Kate, you know, are loving parents, a husband and wife. You know, they have family, they have lives. And you just see them in the space on the Internet. But before you go to Common and tack or you read a news story.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Something being reported on them, more than likely it's not true. But your brain is going to believe in whatever narrative. Right. It wants to believe in.

[Kate]

Yeah. Thank you. Confirmation bias. It's the worst thing.

[David Shane]

Well, guys, make sure you go and find him on all his social medias. And we just want to say a big thanks for coming and just sharing your story and we will talk to you guys next week. Thanks for joining and thanks for watching.

[Kate]

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