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#12133 Why Do Catholics Follow the Pope If It’s Not in the Bible? And More - Karlo Broussard
Many Protestants ask why Catholics follow papal authority when it’s not explicitly stated in Scripture. We explore the biblical and historical roots of the papacy and also explain why Catholics reject sola scriptura, differences in baptism, and the rules around receiving Communion. Join The CA Live Club Newsletter: Click Here Questions Covered: 07:16 – Why do Catholics follow the doctrines and orders of the pope even if it’s not written in the bible? 19:00 – Why don’t Catholics follow Sola Scriptura? 37:24 – Why is baptism different among Catholics vs Baptists? 47:20 – Why can’t non-Catholics receive communion at a Catholic Church? How would one explain it to them?
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A
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B
Hello and welcome.
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A
To Catholic Answers Live. Hello, I'm Cy Kellett, your host.
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C
So happy to get to be here.
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A
With you on this Tuesday afternoon and happy to get to spend it with Dr. Carlo Broussard. Both hours. We're going to do the whys of Catholic belief this hour and next. You got a why question about Catholicism. Why do Catholics believe that Jesus has been raised from the dead? Why do Catholics believe the Bible is the word of God? Or maybe there are particular, maybe smaller or more local questions. You know, why do we go to Mass? Or why do we have to go to Mass every Sunday? Or why do we believe in purgatory? Why do we believe that the saints pray for us? If you've got a why question, whether you're Catholic or not, this hour's for you. 8883-1878-8488-3180-7884. Dr. Carlo Broussard is the author of a whole bunch of books, and I actually mentioned the title of two or came pretty close to the title of two of them there in the introduction. One of them, purgatory Is For Real, and the other one, the Saints Pray for you. Many other books as well. Dr. Carla Broussard, thank you for being here with us.
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C
Si Kellett, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you, my friend.
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A
It's always nice to have you with us. And you're over there in Oklahoma. You're in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm here in San Diego.
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C
Yes, sir.
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A
It's the power of technology, and people can call from any. You dial that number as long as the number works wherever you are. 888-31878. We'll get you on with Carlo. We get international calls, but I frankly don't know how people do it. But you could try the 01 for the country code and see if it works from where you are. 888-318-7884. Why do we believe the things that we believe? I have to say, sometimes I'm amazed at the controversies over what Catholics believe. But putting those aside for the moment, often we know as Catholics that, yeah, we believe that the Eucharist is really Jesus. Why do we believe that? If you've got one, maybe it's a moral question, maybe it's a Question having to do with any of the doctrines of the Church. We would love to talk with you. 888-318-7884. I'll tell you what, because you are a doctor of philosophy, I'll start with this. What's the role of philosophy in answering these why questions?
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C
Because.
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A
Because, I mean, I guess I could just go to the Bible and say, well, the Bible says Jesus is risen, that's why I believe it. But so where does philosophy come in?
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C
Well, philosophy is ordered towards being the handmaid of theology in the service of theology. So we receive the divine revelation from our Lord and from the apostles, prompted by the Holy Spirit entrusted to their successors to preserve it. And philosophy allows for us to provide conceptual frameworks, certain language that would allow for us to expound upon and communicate that divinely revealed truth. So that would be one purpose of philosophy in relation to theology. Philosophy also is ordered toward defending that divine revelation against challenges to it. Philosophy allows for us to identify the flaws and maybe the reasoning of the objection to the divine revelation, pointing out those flaws and then showing why the objection does not succeed as disproving the divine revelation. But even before philosophy serves theology with regard to those two goals or ends, philosophy actually provides for us what we call the preambles of faith. So it primes the pump, so to speak, to get the mind ready to receive that divine revelation from Jesus and the apostles by leading us to the conclusion and seeing the truth that God exists and then being able to deduce certain attributes of God as being absolutely simple, immutable, omnipotent, omniscient, so all powerful and all knowing these sorts of things that you need to have in place in order for one to be disposed to be able to receive intellectually the divine revelation of Jesus and the apostles. So philosophy serves a variety of different ends or goals in relation to theology, which is pertaining to the divine revealed truth that's been given to us supernaturally by Jesus and the apostles and of course all of the Old Testament revelation as well, that Jesus perfects.
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A
So we don't have to be too concerned then about the criticism that we're adding something of our own concoction when we use philosophy to understand the faith right.
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C
Philosophy is going to have its root in certain principles of being that we can know by the natural light of human reason from those principles of being, like the principle of non contradiction, principle of identity and all those sorts of things. Then we reason to God's existence and then we look at, at the historical evidence of that God that We know by philosophy revealing himself in and through Jesus Christ. And then we apply reason, using philosophy to come to better understand that divinely revealed truth, and again, to communicate that divinely revealed truth to those among the nations. As Jesus says in Matthew 28:19, go out into all nations and teach them everything that I have commanded you. So we have to find ways to be able to communicate the divine revelation in order that it can be assimilated and received within their minds that might not have the same conceptual framework as the divinely revealed truth. So philosophy is going to be used to translate that language and provide a conceptual framework to plug in the data.
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A
All right, already, lines, lighten up. As a matter of fact, just two lines open right now. If you have a why question about Catholic belief, whether you're Catholic or not, whoever you are, you're welcome to call 888-318-7884. Joshua's in San Antonio, Texas, listening on 89.7 FM. Joshua, welcome. Go ahead with your question for Dr. Broussard.
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B
Yes, sir. So I'm born and raised Protestant. I've actually called you guys before.
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C
Okay.
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B
Anyway, so there are still some things I put in question, you know, because I'm a newly Catholic and I'm still learning things.
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C
Sure.
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B
So my question is whenever I know that when the Pope gives a holy order, I don't really understand a lot of it because when I went through rcia, it was just kind of, you know, it was like a one day class. Whenever he gives a holy order, it's something that's implemented to the Catholic Church. Then like, I guess the Catholic Church would start practicing that whatever that holy order is. I guess my question is why do the Catholics follow holy orders that are given by the Pope? Since even, you know, we're. When it's not really implemented through the Bible. You don't really read about certain orders in the Bible. Not that I, you know, don't respect or like the practices that, you know, some of these that are done in the Catholic Church because obviously it's way different than the, than the Protestant church, you know, but there's a lot of them that I actually enjoy and I, you know, actively practice it. I'm trying to get my children more involved in it now. So I guess that's my question because, you know, obviously he's just a man and no one, you know, if there's one person we have to obey.
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A
And when you say that, that's your question, your question is basically why? Why do we have to obey the Pope? Essentially does it come down to that?
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B
Yes.
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A
Okay, fair enough.
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C
All right. So Joshua, notice how you create sort of labeled a category of pope orders, right? That's a bit vague and ambiguous because that sort of general category would need to be further specified concerning the type or the kind of order command that the Pope gives. So for example, you might have an order that's given that's doctrinal in nature, like a teaching. And so if it's a teaching that the Pope gives, well, then we have to further specify that teaching as to whether it's infallible or not infallible. Right. So if it's an infallible teaching, then we would be bound to believe that. On account of what authority? Well, the Catholic claim is that the Pope is the Bishop of Rome is the successor to St Peter as the universal shepherd of Christ's flock here on earth. And insofar as Christ invested Peter with that leadership role to feed the sheep of Christ, including all of the other apostles, and him being the rock upon which the Church is built and having the keys of the kingdom of heaven, in Matthew 16:18, 19, Peter would have that authority to not only govern the flock of Christ here on earth, but to feed the flock of Christ with the truth, as Jesus puts it in Luke 22:32, for him to strengthen the brethren. And since the Bishop of Rome is the successor to St Peter, the bishop of Rome is the keeper of the keys, the one who is to follow in the role of Peter to strengthen the brethren. And so given that authority invested in him as the successor to St. Peter, Joshua, the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, when he gives us that infallible teaching on account of his authority and it's infallible, then we got to believe it. And notice we assent to that infallible teaching not because of him, as you said, he's just a man, but he is a man that possesses a specific office that Christ promised the Spirit to protect. Whenever the holder of that office, the man, the Pope, issues a teaching that's necessary for us to believe in order to have membership in the Church established by Jesus Christ. So it is true he is just a man, but he is a man with authority insofar as he's the successor to St Peter as the leader of the Church. Now that's infallible teaching. Then you have other types of orders that the Pope will give. Let's go to a non teaching category. And that would be like disciplinary issues, right? So let's say the Pope issues some disciplinary precept that we as Catholics need to follow we're going to say the Mass in this way or that way, or we're going to abstain on this day and not on that day and whatever it might be. Well, Joshua, again, insofar as he's the leader of the Church of Christ here on earth, he has that judicial authority, the authority to bind and loose in a very unique way, which is given to him exclusively in Matthew 16:18, then by way of extension to all of the apostles, including Peter, in Matthew 18:18. But that judicial authority invested to Peter, and by way of extension, his successors, the bishops of Rome, having that leadership authority to make certain rules to govern the life of the people of God as we live our Christian lives. And this, Joshua, is rooted in Sacred Scripture because, remember, at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts chapter 15, whenever the apostles and the elders gathered, they exercised their legitimate authority to bind and loose with regard to judicial matters or disciplinary matters. When they imposed upon Gentile converts the precepts to abstain from blood, abstain from animals not fully drained of blood, and abstain from the meats offered to idols, Gentiles were bound to adhere and follow those disciplinary precepts, even though those orders did not involve any sort of teaching concerning God's divine revelation. Similarly, the pope, as the successors to St. Peter and the bishops, as the successors to the apostles, have this authority to bind and loose and to impose certain disciplinary orders or precepts that we would be bound to obey, as a son is bound to obey his father, or a son is bound to obey his mother. Within the home, the Church is our Holy Mother, the pope being the official representative. And so insofar as he imposes disciplinary precepts on us, we're bound by the fourth commandment to honor our spiritual Father and then the Church as a whole, our spiritual mother. What do you think of that, Joshua? Is that helpful for you?
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B
Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, there's still, you know, there's still areas in there where I, you know, I guess I don't really. So, okay, so if someone wished to, let's say they want to be Catholic, they want to attend Catholic Churches, but they don't really want to necessarily follow, you know, all the practices that the Pope would put, you know, instill in the Catholic Church. Could they be disbarred from the Catholic Church even though they don't really want to? They want to be. They want to, you know, serve God. But, you know, if they can be, if it's a place where they can be disbarred from the Church because they don't want to practice the way that the Pope orders it. So that's not me, that's not asking for me personally, just, you know, just for clarity, I guess.
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C
Okay, Right, Right. Yeah. So if somebody is seeking to become Catholic, to become Catholic, they would need to submit to the legitimate authority of the Pope within all these matters, whether it's in the teaching category, both infallible and non infallible, and even within the disciplinary category, like for us as Catholics, Joshua, if I obstinately and publicly disobey the Church's, the Pope's disciplinary precepts, well, then that leads to what we call schism, where I'm not willing to submit fully to the Bishop of Rome. And so given that submission to the Bishop of Rome, even in the disciplinary matters, which is rightfully his authority to govern the flock of Christ here on earth, I need to be of a disposition in my heart where I'm willing to submit to that legitimate authority. Now, of course, it's not like him, you know, the Pope himself, it's out of love for Christ who's invested that authority and delegated that authority to him. And so the bottom line is that somebody who's seeking to be Catholic, if they're not willing to submit to the legitimate authority of the Pope, then they need to reconsider whether they should become Catholic or not. We would still continue to invite them, try to explain to them the rational behind that authority. But it is true that to become a Catholic, you do submit to the full authority of the Bishop of Rome in regarding doctrinal matters, but also regarding matters of the life of the Church and how he governs the Church.
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A
That is where I will have to leave it because we got to take a break. Joshua, keep calling. I appreciate your calls very, very much. Dr. Carlo Broussard is our guest. Why? Why do Catholics believe that? It's the whys of Catholic belief. This hour, 888-318-7884.
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C
Catholic Answers Live. Do you have a question but prefer to ask it privately? Catholic Questions can help. Go to CatholicQuestions.com to ask your question online. Email us, drop us a letter or.
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Give us a call.
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Longtime Catholic Answers Live apologist and author Jim Blackburn or another Catholic Questions apologist will be happy to assist you. Catholic Questions proudly supports Catholic Answers Live, so Visit us@catholicquestions.com today. That's CatholicQuestions.com underwriting for Catholic Answers Live is provided by Magnificat. Published monthly, Magnificat features texts of daily Mass, prayers articles, meditations, art, commentaries and more in step with the liturgical rhythm of the church. On the web@Magnificat.com.
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Catechism in a year with Me, Fr. Mike Schmitz is now available right here on CATHOLIC Radio. Encounter God's plan of sheer goodness for us, revealed in Scripture and passed down through the tradition of the Catholic faith as we journey together toward our heavenly.
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Home, Bible in a Year and Catechism in a Year with Fr. Mike schmitz, tonight at 10pm Eastern, 7pm Pacific on EWTN Radio.
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A
Welcome back to Catholic Answers Live. Dr. Carla Broussard is our guest. And back to the phones we go. It's the whys of Catholic belief, and I have to admit, I cheated. I looked ahead to see what questions are coming and a lot of great why questions for Carlo. If you've got one, there's one line open right now, 888-318-7884. You don't have to be Catholic. You don't have to share our beliefs. If you want to know why, why do Catholics believe this or that, we would love to talk with you before I head back to the phone. I'll remind you that every Thursday there's a new episode at Sunday Catholic Word. You can find it at sundaycatholicword.com wherever you get your podcasts. Dr. Carlo Broussard takes you through the Sunday readings from the perspective of a Catholic apologist so you can learn your apologetics and be ready for Mass. And it's almost two and a half years into the three year cycle. You're getting close, Carlo.
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C
Yes, Just trucking away, man. I was working on an episode today, having fun doing it. Looking forward to going through the rest of year C. And once we come to a completion of year C, years A, B and C will always be available for people to access, but there will be no more new episodes of the Sunday Catholic Word and I'll have to try to figure out what else to do. So we'll see what's down the pipe.
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A
You don't want to make an announcement right now?
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C
No, because I don't have one. Okay. All right. I don't know what I'm going to do.
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A
All right, let's head down back to Texas, actually, Austin, Texas. Cynthia is in Austin. We're glad you're here with us. Cynthia, go ahead with your question for Dr. Carlo Broussard.
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D
Hi. Thank you. I am grew up in a Bible side of things, but the Bible was very central to how we lived our lives through Christ alone and and so, and, and I never really paid attention to what denomination I was as long as it followed God Word and the teaching was good. And. But my son is married and young and been a very sweet son, very obedient, and he's being drawn into the Catholic Church. Just his interest at first started out wondering about covenant theology. Oh, and then infant baptism. And he was using all these big words that I was not used to. And so. And then he just kind of like, dropped the bomb. This looks like the direction that I'm kind of heading. And. And he's been talking to the elders at his current church, but he's pretty set on it. And Solas scripture is kind of where the first big issue lands.
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C
Yeah.
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D
And. And so that was a real hard one for me. I was like, what? What? And, and so just trying to understand how anything could supersede God's Word like that, anything could be equal to it or have equal authority is really hard for me. So I just thought maybe you could just explain that from y' all's point of view.
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A
All right, Cynthia, I'll tell you what. I'm going to come back to you and see how satisfied you are with the answer. This is a fascinating question. So, Dr. Broussard.
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C
Yes. So, Cynthia, this is a great question. First of all, I want to recommend that you check out our website@catholic.com if you just type in the search engine Sola Scriptura, we have a plethora of resources for you. Video format, written format, audio format that deals with this topic. Because this is a key topic in Catholic Protestant conversations. We also have some resources@shop.catholic.com on Sola Scriptura, a few books that Catholic Answers Press has published on the issue as well. So with regard to your specific question of you having a hard time seeing something that would be of equal value to Sacred Scripture itself and thereby just as binding on our Christian consciences as Scripture is, insofar as it's the word of God. I would direct you to Second Thessalonians, Chapter 2, Verse 15, where St. Paul teaches us, and he's commanding the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions that you have received from us, whether through word of mouth or written epistle. Now, notice the parallel there between the traditions received through word of mouth, the apostolic preaching, and the written epistle. The written epistle referring to Paul's epistles, which would be inspired by God, sacred Scripture, and therefore binding on the consciences of Christians. But notice there, Cynthia, St. Paul also teaches us that the apostolic preaching is also just as binding on the consciences of the Christians. And the reason why that would be so is not only because the apostles have an infallible authority, but also because the apostles would have been moved and prompted by the Spirit in their preaching to continue to reveal things to God's children. There in the first century, we're told this at the Last Supper, where Jesus promises that the Spirit would bring to their minds all the things that he taught them and would move them into all truth. So the apostolic preaching, which was not identical to that which was in the Epistle, as testified by the fact that Paul spent three years at the Church of Ephesus teaching them, and he only wrote like a little bit in his letter to the Ephesian Church. St. Paul spent a year and a half with the Christians in Corinth, and yet you only have some of that recorded in written form in his two epistles to the Corinthians and then one that is lost. But surely what Paul taught in those local churches orally during the time he was with them would have gone beyond that which found its way recorded in written form. And so you have this paradigm of two means of transmitting God's revelation, the apostolic preaching and the sacred Scripture that would be binding equally on the consciences of Christians in the first century. Now the key question becomes, is that paradigm? Did the apostles intend for that paradigm to change such that once the apostles died off, all we're left with is their apostolic writings, and therefore Scripture alone would be binding on us as God's word? Or did they intend for all of that which they preached orally and taught the Christians in not only their teaching, but their lived experience and the ceremonies that they excel celebrated, like the Eucharistic celebration, to be entrusted to their successors, namely the bishops, to preserve that truth and transmit it to future generations of Christians. As Catholics, we would argue that they did invest that truth into their successors, the bishops, such that they would preserve that truth and transmit it to other generations, such that the twofold model of Scripture and tradition would not change, but would continue, such that Christians after the apostles would still be bound not only by Scripture, but also by the sacred tradition as well. Second Thessalonians, chapter 3, verse 6 is another example of this where Paul binds the Thessalonians to believe that tradition. But I'm going to have to come back on the other side of the break. Hang tight.
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A
I hope you can hang tight because it'll be a very quick break and then we'll come back and we'll let Dr. Broussard finish up and then get your response, because we'd love it if this could be a conversation. Right back with more of that after this on Catholic Answers Live. Why do Catholics pray to dead people, bow to statues? Venerate relics? And where do we find any of this stuff in the Bible? In the delightful book the Saints, Saints pray for your, Dr. Carla Broussard convincingly defends the ancient Christian belief, rooted in Scripture, that the saints care for us, that they're our allies. Order your copy of the Saints Pray for your today@shop.catholic.com or ask for it at a good Catholic bookstore near you.
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C
Why We're Catholic is the one book you can hand to anyone to invite them into or back to the Catholic faith. With more than 400,000 copies sold, Trent Horne's book has had a number one ranking on Amazon.com for five years running. Now available in softcover book cases, ebook and on audible. Find out what the excitement is all about. Order your copies of why we're catholic@shop.catholic.com or visit whywearcatholic.com we hope that one.
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A
Of the things that we communicate here at Catholic Answers Live is that our Catholic faith allows us to be fully serious about all the problems we encounter in the church and in the world. But it also lets us have light hearts and maybe even mix in a bit of fun. And that is exactly what our good friend Joe Heschmeyer does in his popular podcast Shameless Potpourri. You should check it out@shelessjoe.com Joe's got a deep grasp of the faith, morals, the teachings of the Church, all that, but he's also got a witty conversational style. He entertains and he informs, but you will leave equipped to better answer the most common challenges, misconceptions and questions about the Catholic faith. He's got insightful guests he does on air debates, and he takes a close look into all the things that you want to know about as a Catholic living. Today, you'll walk away knowledgeable and filled with joy. Look for Joe on his YouTube channel. Check him out@shelessjoe.com or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you hear, become a patron.
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C
On Wednesday's Take Two with Jerry and Debbie. Our topic is 20 years ago today. Do you remember how it felt when Pope St. John Paul II died? Now back to Catholic Answers Live.
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A
Dr. Carlo Broussard, our guest this hour. The whys of Catholic belief is our topic. If you've got a why question and lots of people do. Because all the lines are full right now. If you've got one about the Catholic faith. Why do Catholics believe something that we believe? As you can tell from the college, you don't have to be Catholic to call. Anybody can call. We love having these conversations. We love talking about this stuff. And you're doing us a favor. When you call 888-318-down in Austin, Texas, Cynthia wants to know, or we're in a conversation with Cynthia about why Catholics don't follow Sola Scriptura. Did you want me to go back to Cynthia, or did you have a point? You wanted to finish up first, Carlo?
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C
Sure. Yeah. Let's make sure Cynthia is there. If she's still with us.
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A
Cynthia, you with us?
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D
Yes.
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C
Yes. All right. All right. So let me just try to finish my thought as I was interrupted by the hard break there. Rightfully interrupted, I might say not rudely interrupted. So I was articulating how in Scripture, Cynthia, we see this paradigm, a two model paradigm of two sources of God's word or revelation, Scripture and tradition, binding on the consciences of Christians. And in second Thessalonians 2:15, St. Paul in no way indicates that that model will cease to exist whenever all of the apostles die. That model is given to the Thessalonians as something that would be binding for the Christian people in perpetuity. In 2nd Thessalonians 3:6, he charges them in the name of the Lord Jesus to hold fast to traditions and to avoid those who do not live up to the traditions. And there's no expiration date on that. There's no indication that that model of what's binding on Christians, namely the sacred tradition, along with the sacred Scripture, would only be for the first century. And so we see that this two model authority of God's revelation would not be present just for the first century, but would be for Christians to come subsequent to the apostles. Now, the last thing I will say is that we also see in Scripture, Cynthia, that Christ invested Peter and the apostles with a certain authority to be the custodians of that sacred divine revelation, not only them preaching and giving us the divine revelation at the promptings of the Spirit, but also an authority to teach it and to preserve it. And what we see, Cynthia, is in Paul's Epistles to Timothy and Titus. Paul envisions Timothy and Titus as being the successors of him with full apostolic authority in relation to teaching that divine revelation, not giving more divine revelation because that was only for the apostles, but to preserve that divine revelation, to transmit it authentically and to teach it and to rebuke those who contradict it. We see this all throughout the letters to Timothy and Titus. Like, for example, in Titus 2:15, Paul tells Titus to rebuke with full authority, the implication being that the authority he has, Paul has as an apostle, Titus is going to have as well to rebuke those who contradict that which is handed over to Titus and to Timothy. So we see in the Epistles themselves to Timothy and Titus, Paul envisioning this paradigm of a continuation of a living apostolic authority, teaching authority to preserve and transmit that which is given to us in both Sacred Scripture and the apostolic preaching or the sacred tradition. And then finally, the last question is, well, what sort of things would make up that sacred tradition? Well, here's just a few examples, Cynthia, like the fact that there will be no new apostles, that the resurrected Jesus will appeal to and consequent to that, that there will be no new public revelation binding on Christians. And consequent to that, that there will be no new inspired Scriptures. That is something that's not in the written epistles or the New Testament, but yet it was a part of the apostolic preaching that was preserved in the succession of the bishops. And so that, Cynthia, is why we as Catholics do not follow the principle of sola scriptura, which is Latin for Scripture alone. And the implication there being our only infallible rule of faith. We look to Scripture and tradition as infallible rule of faith, constituting together the infallible rule of faith because it's God's word. And then the successors of Peter and the Apostles, the magisterium being an infallible rule of faith insofar as. As the magisterium is the servant of that word of God contained both in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
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A
All right, Cynthia, what do you think of all that?
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D
That's a lot.
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A
Yeah.
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D
Yeah. Well, and I. And I have heard that term like prima scriptura. Now, that's also not Catholic, though. Right, Right.
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C
We do not. We deny the claim or the idea that Scripture is superior to the sacred Tradition. We affirm that the sacred Tradition and sola scriptura are equal in value concerning both, being that concerning the idea that both contain God's divine revelation. Now, with that said, there is a uniqueness of Sacred Scripture insofar as sacred. The very words of Sacred Scripture, we call this verbal inspiration. The very words of Sacred Scripture are inspired and intended by the Holy Spirit through the human author, such that the form that the divine revelation takes in human language is inspired. And that is not the case for the sacred tradition, like when the apostles are going around preaching and receiving new revelation and communicating it to this church and that church and this congregation and that congregation, they would have been using different words and a different formula to try and communicate those divinely inspired ideas and truths. It's inspired in origin. So the content is, but not the very formula or the words themselves. And so there you have a uniqueness of sacred Scripture, namely verbal inspiration, but not a superiority of primacy insofar as it's better than the sacred tradition, because we do affirm they are both equal in value because both transmit God's divine revelation.
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A
Cynthia?
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D
Yeah, I think that's good. I think, you know, going to those resources will help because it's like sola scriptura kind of hangs on, you know, or refuting it kind of hangs on that you understand and follow the continuation of the apostolic one without the other, right?
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C
Yes. Cynthia, you hit the nail on the head, because there are different approaches in critiquing sola scriptura. You could go at it from an approach on the negative side and saying, well, here are all the problems with sola scriptura, right. And poking holes in the theory. But what you just articulated is sort of the. The rubber hits the road because the reasoning is this, if the apostolic authority of the apostles continued in the bishops who succeeded them, then sola Scriptura is false. Premise 2. We would argue the apostolic authority of the apostles continued in the bishops who succeeded them. And so therefore, conclusion, sola scriptura is false. And so you hit the nail on the head there. Good insight, Cynthia.
- [36:45]
A
Cynthia, it's been a great pleasure talking with you, and if you would. You talked about your son coming into the Catholic Church. We have a book called why We're Catholic, and I'll send it to you if you'd like. It's just a description of essentially the basic beliefs of the Catholic faith. All you have to do is stay on the line. Edgar will get an address and we'll send the book out to you, and I hope you'll call many more times. It was very helpful to us, and it would be nice to talk with you again. I am. What is it? It's All Texas day today. It's 100% Texas day. Amanda is in Dallas, Texas. This Amanda, thank you for waiting. Go ahead with your question for Dr. Carla Broussard.
- [37:22]
C
Hi.
- [37:22]
D
Thank you, guys. So I have been going through a program that really draws my faith closer to the Lord through scripture and practice. And they have been really big on baptism. So I was baptized. I was Raised Catholic. And I guess my question to you is, if I go through a baptism again, how does that differ from the Catholic faith?
- [37:52]
C
Okay, Amanda, my question. Are you Catholic or are you. You said you were baptized Catholic. Is that correct? Did I hear that correctly?
- [37:59]
D
So I was raised Catholic and kind of broke away and really put my. An effort into drawing my faith closer to the Lord.
- [38:13]
C
So in this group that you're with, this group that you're with is inviting you to be baptized again, Correct?
- [38:21]
D
Correct. Okay.
- [38:22]
C
All right. Okay. So I'll share a few thoughts with you. It's interesting that you asked this question, Amanda, because there are some who are probably listening right now who were at my house last night. We had about 30. We had 30 people in my home for our adult apologetics group studying for two hours. Guess what we talked about? About baptism.
- [38:40]
A
Really?
- [38:41]
C
Yeah. And. And also my forthcoming book in the fall through Catholic Answers Press. Hopefully, if everything goes through and we cross, the finish line will be on baptism as well. So, Amanda, keep your eyes peeled for that. So to your question, I would say in response. Or I. I am saying in response, Amanda, I would invite you to consider not to get re baptized. Why? Because that would imply that your first baptism as a Catholic as a child was insufficient or invalid or not good enough. But I'm here to tell you, assuming that they baptized you in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy spirit with water, etc. Which probably happened, if you were baptized as a Catholic, it was valid and you received the graces that God willed for you to have to save you, then initially you were born again, to quote Jesus in John 3. 5, by water and spirit, which means. Further, Amanda, you were spiritually birthed such that you passed from unrighteousness, a daughter of Adam, to righteousness, a daughter of God the Father. That is what we believe happened to you in your baptism, Amanda. And all the graces that God wills for you was given to you in that sacrament and unfolding throughout your life. Even the graces right now that prompted you to call could be rooted in and connected to those original graces that were given there. So I would encourage you to not get re baptized, but to refrain from that and to reconsider the treasure that our blessed Lord has given to you in the sacrament of baptism. Initially, because you were spiritually regenerated, or to quote St. Peter in 1st Peter 3. 21, you were saved. Or to quote St. Paul in Romans 6:3, 4, you died with Christ in baptism so that you could be raised to a newness of life. That is what baptism has done for you. The quote unquote, re baptism that this group is inviting you to engage in is merely a symbolic ritual washing to symbolize the conviction that you have in your heart for Jesus Christ. Now, I want to affirm for you, Amanda, 100% that the conviction you have for Jesus Christ and the love that you have for Jesus Christ and even the motivation that you have to want to even think about getting re baptized to symbolize your profession and faith, I affirm that that is a good and that is a grace. But there is no need for you to get re baptized because that first baptism was valid. Now. Now, the group that you're in will probably try and convince you and give you a variety of different reasons why it is the case that your first baptism was not legit and was invalid. Now, in order to respond to those challenges, that's where you're going to have to do a little homework. Amanda and I would invite you to do so by going to catholic dot com. Just type in the search engine Baptismal regeneration or baptism and read some of the resources that we have available for you in video format, audio format, written articles that are articulates and defends the Catholic understanding of baptism, and that hopefully will lead you to the conclusion that your baptism was valid as a child and that there's no need for you to try and undermine that and undergo this symbolic representation. Now, does that. Does that mean you can't profess Jesus as Lord and continue publicly? No, of course not. You continue to publicly profess Jesus, but there's no need for you to be re baptized. What do you think of that, Amanda? Is that helpful for you?
- [42:33]
D
I think that was exactly what the Holy Spirit had on my heart.
- [42:37]
C
Beautiful.
- [42:38]
D
I want to end with this. And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus.
- [42:46]
A
Praise God.
- [42:48]
C
Amen to that.
- [42:50]
A
How beautiful.
- [42:51]
C
Thank you for your call.
- [42:52]
A
Yeah, thank you. I'm trying to think of a book to send to Amanda. I want to send her a book. Anything you say, Amanda.
- [43:01]
C
How about you send her my Meeting the Protestant Challenge? That might be helpful for her.
- [43:06]
A
If you'd like a copy of Carlo's book Meeting the Protestant Challenge, we'd be happy to send it to you. Amanda. What a beautiful story of coming closer to the Lord. And he is so generous in drawing us always in so many different ways and unexpected ways towards him. What a beautiful call, Carla, before I take a break. You're gonna be in Niceville, Florida, I believe. I have Heard that before that you're gonna be in Niceville, Florida. I would like to report on whether they live up to their. It's a lot of pressure to name your town Niceville.
- [43:39]
C
Can you imagine how probably annoyed they are with every single person that probably says that? I will make a promise to the Niceville people when I go to your parish this upcoming weekend. I will not annoy you by asking you if you're nice or not.
- [43:54]
A
Well, I just think you better be nice. You live in Nicevill. I think you've put a lot of pressure on yourselves. Nobody did it to them, Carlo. They chose that name.
- [44:03]
C
Yeah. So I'll be there April 4th. This Friday, I'll be speaking on the New Relativism, sharing some content from my book, the New Relativism, Unmasking the Philosophy of Today's Woke Moralists. And then on Saturday, April 5, I'll be giving talks on the splendor of the Catholic faith, meeting the Protestant Challenge and Apologetic in an Age of Unbelief. And then Sunday morning, April 6th, I'll be giving a talk on the Eucharist. And by the way, this is that Holy Name of Jesus Parish. Holy Name of Jesus Parish in Knoxville, Florida. Yeah. So if there's anybody out there who is listening and would like to come and join us, we'd love to have you. And I promise you we'll have a good old time and we'll learn a thing or three.
- [44:48]
A
All right? All right. Have a nice time, everybody. There, we got to take a quick break. Be right back with more Dr. Carlo Broussard, the whys of Catholic Belief, right after this on Catholic Answers Live. There's only one Catholic Answers Live.
- [45:03]
C
Underwriting for Catholic Answers Live is provided.
- [45:06]
A
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- [45:07]
C
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- [45:09]
A
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C
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- [45:17]
A
One of the biggest mistakes a Christian can make is to try to do good without God's help. St Therese said, When we trust only ourselves and not God, our soul becomes incapable of virtue. Her remedy? Works of charity. And the greatest work of charity is to share the gospel. At St. Paul Street Evangelization, a Catholic nonprofit, we encourage you to share the gospel with someone who doesn't know Jesus. Catholic Answers is supported in part by St. Paul Street Evangelization. Streetevangelization.com hi, this is Deacon Dennis Lambert from the Diocese of Phoenix. When we listen to Catholic radio, we receive encouragement, strength, and most importantly, we receive the truth. Simply put, we need Catholic radio because we are and we become that which we surround ourselves with. So I encourage you to tune in, inspire, and to wrap yourselves in the warm arms of faith, life and love. The world needs EWTN CATHOLIC radio now more than ever. Welcome back to Catholic Answers Live. All right, I know you're not going to make them feel bad about their town being called Niceville, but could you just suggest that they have a sister city? And it could be because there's a town called Hell Michigan and they could be sister cities. Niceville, Florida and Hell Michigan could be sister. What do you think? Just propose it.
- [46:47]
C
That's pretty. That's pretty interesting, man. How about that?
- [46:52]
A
I never know quite what a sister city does. Like I think my town might have some sister cities and I feel bad. I've never done anything for my sister city. I don't know what you're supposed to do. Are we supposed to get them something for Christmas? How does sister city even work? No one's ever explained it to me. Let's go to Regina in Arizona. I'm not saying it's nice to finally be out of Texas, but it's nice to finally be out of Texas listening to EWTN on channel 130, SiriusXM satellite radio. Welcome, Regina.
- [47:19]
D
Hi. Thank you. Can you hear me okay?
- [47:21]
A
Very well? Yes, thank you.
- [47:23]
D
Okay, good. This whole. So my question is this is that we're just kind of having a conversation on the way actually to a Christian concert up in Tucson. And it was really a great concert on my birthday. And I don't know what we got talking about, but the communion came up and my friends are both Protestant, like non denominational Protestant. So they were talking about that when I go one of them, when I go to the Catholic church, I will take communion. No one's going to keep me from taking Jesus. You know, we have that at our church and I will take it there. I won't be told not to take it. And I just do that. And she was getting kind of, you know, you could tell it bothered her. And then I just didn't really know what to say. And then she also about confession, I don't need to tell anybody my sin. I the only response I had to her as well. I guess we got to make sure that we're not in mortal sin before we go to communion. And we believe that that is not a symbol. That is the body and blood of Christ. So can you just help me out with that? Because I don't think it really sufficed. And it just didn't really even. I don't even know if I said it right. But. Okay, my question.
- [48:33]
C
All right, so. So with regard to the first part of the question, Regina, you're asking. So your friend was sort of wanting, demanding that she receive communion in the Catholic Church. Is. Did I hear that correctly?
- [48:48]
D
Communion. If she goes to church, the Catholic Church, she will take communion.
- [48:57]
C
Okay, so she's saying you. She's gonna go and take communion. I got it. Okay. For some reason, I thought you were saying you were gonna do that. I was like, that doesn't make sense. Okay. Okay. All right. So the one way you could go about explaining that to her is you could just say, well, well, the church doesn't allow for you to take communion. So you could just invite her to respect the church's requests for her not to take communion and to be respectful in that case. Now, then she might say, well, why is that the case? And then you could offer a variety of different explanations. But here's one that may very well work, Regina, and it's this. We don't want you to bear false witness. In other words, we don't want you to lie. Because. Because in our church, you can tell your friend, coming up for Holy Communion is a visible gesture that communicates a certain meaning, Right? It's a language. And what you're speaking in that action or behavior of taking communion is, I am in communion with the Catholic Church, which means I believe everything the Catholic Church tells me to believe. So if your friend comes up for Holy Communion, which of itself is speaking, that unity, but in her heart, she doesn't have that communion with the Church, well, then she would be bearing false witness. And so that would. And that's something that we ought not to do. So you could invite her to consider that rationale and say, hey, look, we don't want you to be lying to yourself, and we don't want you to be lying to the congregation. We don't want you to be lying to the church. And so I would invite you to be. Consist with what this means for us as Catholics. And so hopefully, that will help. And this has roots all the way back into AD150. Justin Martyr Regina, when he's talking about the Eucharist and his writings, he says that in order to receive the Holy Eucharist, two condition conditions have to be met. You got to be baptized, he says, and you got to believe everything we believe. And that makes perfect sense, because the very behavior itself is a visible act that speaks the language. I believe everything the church believes. And since she doesn't Believe that then she ought not to present herself for Holy Communion. What do you think of that?
- [51:25]
D
I think that that's a good answer. But I also do think that she could come back and say, I'm bearing. I. I believe in Jesus, so I would not be bearing false witness to your church.
- [51:44]
C
Okay, so my. My simple. Yes. So my simple response to that would be, oh, yeah, I believe in Jesus too, and I'm glad you believe in Jesus. Praise the Lord for that. But this particular action involves believing certain things that Jesus has revealed to us as well, like being obedient to the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, who's the successor of St. Peter. And I'm sure your friend doesn't want to follow that. And since your friend doesn't want to submit to the Bishop of Rome, the successor to Peter, which we believe is the model of Jesus's Church established by him, then you need to be in communion in order to receive communion. You need to believe that. And since she doesn't, she ought to refrain from Holy Communion. Now, you had brought up the question about confession, and we're running out of time here, Regina. We're coming up on the last minute of our episode here for the first hour, but I would just direct her attention to John, chapter 20, verse 23. You know, she's saying, I don't need to confess my sins to some man, I can go straight to God, etc. And all you got to do is say, hey, look, Jesus tells the apostles, if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven if you retain, which means do not forgive the sins of any they are retained or not forgiven. Now notice the implication of that command. The apostles have an authority to make a judgment whether to forgive sins or not to forgive sins. How in the world are they going to make that judgment? Well, the only way that they could make that judgment whether to forgive or not to forgive is if they know whether the person is actually sorry for the sins. And in order for the apostle to know whether the person is actually sorry for the sins is if the person tells them them, which is verbal confession. And so there in the very command of Jesus for the apostles to forgive or not to forgive is implied. Jesus will for sinners to confess their sorrow for sin to the apostles in order for them to make that judgment whether to forgive or not to forgive. And we have tons of resources on the sacrament of reconciliation and in particular that particular Passage of John 20:23 at our website, Catholic.com just type in the search engine John 20:23 or Sacrament of reconciliation, a plethora of resources will become available. And I also have a chapter dealing with just that one passage in my book, meeting the Protestant Response. So hopefully, Regina, that's helpful for you.
- [54:11]
A
Regina, thank you very much for the call. We're only ending because we gotta end. We gotta take a break and we'll come back for another hour. So if you're on the line, stay on the line. If you haven't dialed yet, there'll be at least one line open. It's the whys of Catholic Belief. Why do Catholics believe what we believe? If you'd like to get an answer to your why question from Dr. Carlo Broussard, give us a call, 8883-1878-8488-8318, 7884. If you're in the Niceville, Florida, area, if you're somewhere around there, Destin or Pensacola or any of those towns around niceville, check out Dr. Carla Broussard is coming to the Holy Name of Jesus Parish in Niceville this weekend. Also, don't forget to check out the Sunday Catholic Word, Dr. Broussard's weekly podcast on the Sunday, readings from the Perspective of a Catholic Apologist. As I said, it's going to be.
- [55:06]
D
A very brief break.
- [55:06]
A
Then we'll be right back with more of the why's of Catholic belief on Catholic Answers Live.