#12453 Was the Papacy Supposed to Be Ongoing? Mary and OCIA - Karlo Broussard

Summary

Catholic Answers Live — Episode #12453

Was the Mass Meant to Be Ongoing? Mary and OCIA
Guest: Tom Nash (theologian and author)
Air Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Cy Kellett

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Episode Overview

This episode of Catholic Answers Live is dedicated to answering listener questions about the Catholic Mass. Host Cy Kellett welcomes theologian Tom Nash to tackle a variety of topics—from the participation of lay people in the liturgy and changes in Mass practices post-Vatican II, to the nuances of Eucharistic theology, liturgical translations, and parish diversity. Nash brings historical, theological, and pastoral insights, addressing caller concerns with candor and clarity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lay People’s Role at Mass

Timestamps: [03:50]–[08:44]

• Laypeople may serve as ushers, altar servers, readers, or sacristans, but some roles (e.g., reading the Gospel) are reserved for clergy.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 04:15):
    “The Gospel is to be read by either a priest or a deacon.”
• There is a custom in the U.S. where lay Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion sometimes give blessings during distribution of Communion. Nash explains that formal blessings during the Mass are reserved to clergy, but acknowledges the pastoral intent of making everyone feel welcome (children, non-Catholics, those unable to receive).
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 05:23):
    “Blessings especially are restricted to a priest during Mass...but I would urge bishops and priests to say, hey, go to the priest in the line [for a blessing].”

2. Scripture Readings Pre-and-Post Vatican II

Timestamps: [11:52]–[13:52]

• A caller asks why, prior to Vatican II, the traditional Latin Mass did not include Old Testament readings (except Psalms).
• Nash admits he’s not sure of the original rationale, but praises the “positive move” of Vatican II for including a broader selection of Scripture (Old Testament, Psalms, New Testament, and Gospel) in the current lectionary.

3. The Epiclesis, Consecration, and the Real Presence

Timestamps: [14:25]–[17:35]

• A caller is confused about when the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ.
• Nash explains that true transubstantiation occurs at the consecration (“This is my body...this is my blood”), not at the preceding epiclesis (calling down of the Holy Spirit).
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 14:57):
    “The real presence only occurs with the consecration. The epiclesis is prior to that...but we do not have a consecration until the words, ‘This is my body, this is my blood.’”
• After consecration, Christ is wholly present in either the host or the cup.

4. Liturgical Language: “And with your spirit” vs. “And also with you”

Timestamps: [20:26]–[23:55]

• A listener asks about the correct response during Mass: “And with your spirit” now replaces the former “And also with you.”
• Nash emphasizes that the Church updated the English translation to be more faithful to the original Latin “Et cum spiritu tuo,” highlighting the importance of unity and obedience to Church authority.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 22:35):
    “It’s with your spirit, not ‘and also with you,’ because that’s the clear norm that the Church gives...It was more precisely translated in the more recent revision.”

5. Mass Uniformity and Perceived Protestantization

Timestamps: [35:44]–[43:22]

• A caller expresses concern that the Mass has become “more Protestant” with changes such as Communion in the hand, additional lay ministers, and perceived loss of Eucharistic reverence.

• Nash counters:

  • Main elements—the Eucharistic prayers, the words of institution—remain unchanged.
  • The Church has the authority to make certain disciplinary and liturgical adaptations.
  • True reverence is in the heart, but external signs (kneeling, altar rails) do support internal disposition. He expresses personal preference for increased reverence.
  • The Church’s unity lies in Christ and apostolic succession, not uniformity of every practice.

• Quote (Tom Nash, 39:27):
  “There’s nothing in the actual Mass that downplays [the Real Presence] in terms of the real presence...Those are essential to consecration, and those aspects...are indeed retained.”

6. Reception of Communion: Kneeling and on the Tongue vs. Standing and in the Hand

Timestamps: [41:55]–[43:22]

• Caller questions why the norm has shifted from kneeling/on the tongue to standing/in the hand and laments restrictions.

• Nash stresses:

  • The Vatican has stated no one may be refused Communion for kneeling.
  • Outward posture is significant, but inward disposition is paramount.

• Quote (Tom Nash, 43:22):
  “If someone is not to be refused when they kneel, and if that is your preference, that is your right...But ultimately, it is our interior disposition that is most important.”

7. Liturgical Translations and Validity of Consecration

Timestamps: [30:05]–[34:06]

• Sedevacantist objections to changes in the words of institution (e.g., “for all” vs. “for many”) are addressed.
• Nash explains the official Latin text always said “pro multis” (“for many”), and that Christ died for all. The essential words of consecration (“This is my body...”) have never changed and are what’s required for validity.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 32:40):
    “It is the words of consecration. The essential words are ‘This is my body, this is my blood.’ Those are the essential words.”

8. “Fallen Asleep” in Liturgical Prayers

Timestamps: [18:47]–[20:10]

• “Fallen asleep” is simply a biblical idiom meaning death, used to express faith in the resurrection.

9. Masses for Specific Groups (e.g., LGBTQ Masses) and Church Teaching

Timestamps: [50:41]–[54:49]

• Callers report confusion after witnessing “LGBTQ Masses” and ask why such specificity isn’t applied to other groups.
• Nash stresses that the Church welcomes all but calls everyone to conversion and living chastity. Special Masses shouldn’t affirm sinful behavior, and all people are called to Christian discipleship regardless of sexual orientation.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 51:38):
    “We need to be in a state of grace...Everyone is welcome, but...someone who’s committed adultery needs to come forward only after he or she has repented.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On internal vs. external reverence (kneeling):
  “[The] outward informs the interior...kneeling, having altar rails...would be a worthwhile thing to heighten Eucharistic reverence and therefore awareness about what we’re receiving...”
  — Tom Nash [43:22]

• On authority and unity:
  “You, me, your aunt, your grandma—you’re not the custodian of the sacraments, the Church is.”
  — Cy Kellett [33:26]

• On the purpose of the Mass:
  “Nowhere more profoundly are those words of the Lord’s Prayer fulfilled than in the sacrifice of the Mass.”
  — Tom Nash [39:27]

• On valid sacraments, even with minor liturgical errors:
  “It would be a liturgical wrongdoing...But no, it wouldn’t invalidate it. Bottom line.”
  — Tom Nash [32:58]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Lay roles and blessings: [03:50]–[08:44]
• Scripture in the Mass (pre/post Vatican II): [11:52]–[13:52]
• Real Presence and Consecration: [14:25]–[17:35]
• Liturgical translations (“And also with you”): [20:26]–[23:55]
• Validity of Consecration formula: [30:05]–[34:06]
• Concerns about Protestantization & reverence: [35:44]–[43:22]
• Reception posture controversies: [41:55]–[43:22]
• Special group Masses and Church teaching: [50:41]–[54:49]

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Tone & Approach

Nash and Kellett maintain a friendly, pastoral, and informed tone. The conversation balances direct answers with sensitivity to listener’s concerns about reverence, authority, and pastoral adaptation within the Church. Humor and affection (for callers and each other) lighten the rigorous apologetics and make the episode accessible and engaging.

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Summary

This episode offers a nuanced, faithful, and approachable exploration of Catholic liturgy and Eucharistic theology. Listeners will come away with historical context, clear explanations of Church teaching, guidance for concerns about liturgical irregularities, and encouragement to trust the Church's authority and Christ’s presence at every Mass.

Transcript

[A]

Buying or selling your home. Real Estate for Life can connect you with a pro life real estate agent. When Real Estate for Life receives a referral fee, they donate 65% to Catholic Answers. Learn more at realestateforlife.org Our mateys welcome to Catholic ANSWERS Live. I am Cy Kellett, your host, about to have some fun. Second hour, we've got, hey, have you heard about that Holy Habits Catholic app? We got the founder of that Drago Dimitrov. Dimitrov is going to be here this hour. Tom Nash is here. And we're going to talk about the mass because Tom is a very fine theologian who knows all about the Mass. And the reason I gave the pirate greeting at the beginning was like literally seconds before we went on the air, you said I looked like which pirate?

[B]

Well, not pirate. Captain Ahab.

[A]

Oh, Captain Ahab.

[B]

Moby Dick and all that because it's the 50th anniversary, something near to my heart being from Michigan, the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. And of course, you had the Gordon Lightfoot song, but that made you think.

[A]

Of Captain Ahab and that made you just say you look like Captain Ahab right before we started the show.

[B]

It wasn't intended to make you laugh.

[A]

But it did, though.

[B]

I can't reconstruct the chronology of our comments that go back and forth. But what I can say is what we should pray for the repose of the soul of the wreck of the Evan Fitzgerald. We should November 10, 1975, when the winds of November came early as Gordon Lightfoot sings. And yes, God have mercy, Superior is not an easy lake. I've never gone in it, but I just know that there are world class sailors who went up. They go, oh, it's going to be like competing in our bathtub in a bathtub, be like, ha ha, something simple. And they went and Superior has depths more than 1,000ft. And and then he basically said, oh, afterwards, because Superior can get really crazy. And some people estimate 25, 30ft. And there's different theories about how the.

[A]

But nobody knows exactly what happened to the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[B]

Yeah, there are a couple theories and they might do given advanced technology. There's discussions going down and examining the hull because it might have been there was some repairs that were not done maybe so well and might have split in half.

[A]

Tom Nash is our guest. You can call 888-318-7884 if you have questions about the masts or, or the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Today, 888-318-7884. Tom Nash, theologian, author of fine books. But you. I can't do it, Tom. I can never get the titles correct. So tell me the titles.

[B]

The Biblical Roots of the Mass.

[A]

The Mass. I was going to say that 20 answers the rosary. Yes. I could have got that one.

[B]

And you know, it's sold well. And I'm glad because we really encountered Jesus through the Rosary, properly understood. I tried to write in a way that I think would win over our Protestant friends, or at least let them see that we are encountering Jesus because we're meditating on the principal mysteries of his life along with his mother. And as his mother always says, John 2. 5, do whatever he tells you. And then the other book is To Whom Shall We Go? Available from Catholic Answers, not published by Catholic Answers, St. Paul Center, Emmaus Road. Specifically, their label To Whom Shall We Go? Question mark. The Biblical Case for the Catholic Church.

[A]

Tom Nash. Already three lines full. People have questions about the Mass. That means there are three lines open. Try to guess how many lines we have. It's 6, 8, 8, 8, 3 1, 8, 7, 8, 8 4, 8, 8, 3, 1, 8, 7, 8- 8 4. So in the Mass that we have now, as we celebrate the Mass, there are. We see a lot of lay people doing stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What can lay people do at the Mass?

[B]

Lay people can do a variety of things while not in the Mass per se, but serving as ushers. They can serve as altar servers, they can serve as readers, they can even sacristans. But there are certain things that are restricted to a deacon or a priest.

[A]

Like the reading of the Gospel. Is the gospel restricted?

[B]

Yes, the gospel would be restricted. I know of one case where it was a terrible snowstorm in Massachusetts and the priest had laryngitis. So he deputed a friend of mine to read the Gospel. Given that there were very few people there and he had laryngitis, he couldn't speak. So. Yeah. But no, the Gospel is to be read by either a priest or a deacon.

[A]

Again. Oh, just two lines open now. 8, 8, 8, 3, 1, 8, 7, 8, 8, 4. All right. Here's part of why I asked you that question.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I want to know if laypeople can give a blessing in the communion line. Let me just set you up here. All right. So we have all these extraordinary ministers of communion.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

With which I am not making an argument right now. I'm not trying to argue about that.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

But people come up and they come to the priest, for example, with their hands crossed in front of them, which is the sign for I'm not receiving Communion today. Yes, and the priest will give them a blessing. But then you see that right next to the priest is the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion and the person will cross their hands and sometimes they will give a blessing. So tell me about that.

[B]

Yes, well, blessings especially are restricted to a priest during Mass and especially in making the gestures that a priest can make and extending his right hand, those are restricted to a priest. There has grown custom in the United States in particular, whereby when people come up and bishops or priests have said, hey, don't exchange your hand, they might say, well, God bless you. This will be an extraordinary ministry of Holy Communion. I think ideally, given the norms of the church, it would be ideal to say, hey, have them come up to the priest if you would like to receive a blessing. Some people, some bishops have in the last couple decades said it shouldn't even occur, I believe as a means of reaching out to those who are coming to mass reverently even though they cannot receive communion for lifestyle issues or something.

[A]

Or maybe they're not Catholic.

[B]

Or maybe they're not Catholic. There you go. Maybe at a wedding, I think letting them come forward so that they don't be isolated in the pew so they can get a blessing is a good thing, number one. Number two, I would urge bishops and priests to say, hey, go to the priest in the line. Now why do I say that? It's true that at, excuse me, the feast of Saint Blaise, you will see the blessings given by a layperson. It is said differently because it's basically may God bless you versus I bless you because he has a power. So you see that. And you know, lay people will give out ashes, but it's not authorized in the Mass per se for this kind of a thing. And so that's why I would say follow the norms. Because sometimes when we go astray from the norms, strictly speaking, for good intentions, other people might, you know, what is a well intentioned exception becomes a truck that people drive through and all kinds of craziness can result. So I believe to let people come forward for blessings, including the little children. But I would say go to a priest or a deacon and I would encourage, of course, my brother bishops, that I'm a bishop, my brothers in Christ who are bishops, my brother priests, my brother bishop, my brothers, they are my brothers, but I'm not a brother bishop. Full disclosure, not a brother bishop, not ordained to the diaconate either or priesthood, but that they should do that. I think that's the way because it's respect for the norms. That's important. And it's not to clericalize the laity. It's to recognize that the priests have a spirit specific role. And yet, of course, we see that parents, I mean, you're a parent, you can bless your children, parents can, spouses can bless each other. And I would argue, since I'm a godparent, I could say a blessing or at least pray a blessing for my God child or godchildren or those I've sponsored confirmandis for confirmation, but encourage them to go forward to a priest or a deacon if they would like to come forward for a blessing. But I would not categorically cut that out because there are people who are coming to Mass and who should not feel so isolated. Let them come up. And people shouldn't be gossiping anyway. They come up and say, hey, did so and so receive a blessing or did they get communion? What's going on there? No, beware yourself if you think like that of your own grave sin and potential grave sin in doing so.

[A]

So what if the person comes up with their arms crossed to an extraordinary minister and right at the same moment that they come up, they sneeze.

[B]

God bless you for the sneeze, but not for that. And then he just said, I just wanted. But you might say in all sincerity, if they come up, and they still were, if the bishop and the priest had directed the lay people not to say, hey, I'm not authorized to give you a blessing, but I pray that God bless you abundantly.

[A]

Okay? Hey, Tom Nash is our guest. There's still a couple lines open if you want to get in your question on the Mass. We're taking questions on the Mass this hour. 888-318-7884 Catholic Answers live. St. Carlo Acutis shared a dream in which Sister Lucia appeared to him, saying the First Saturday devotion could change the destiny of the world. The Blue army of Our lady of Fatima invites you to practice this Devotion. Join a First Saturday virtual pilgrimage beginning December 6th. Experience spiritual meditations while traveling virtually through Portugal and Spain to 12 sacred sites tied to the Fatima story. Track your journey with a passport and stamps. Visit bluearmy.com and select First Saturday Pilgrimage to learn more. Sponsored by Our Lady's Blue Army. Underwriting for Catholic Answers Live is provided by Magnificat. Published monthly, Magnificat features texts of daily Mass prayers, articles, meditations, art commentaries and more in step with the liturgical rhythm of the church. On the [e-mail] this is Father Dwight.

[C]

Longenecker, why do you need to go to confession? Well, it's easy to receive forgiveness for the things we've done wrong. But more importantly than that, one of the beauties of confession is that when we go to confession, we take responsibility for ourselves. Our world is besieged by those who feel entitled and want to blame others and expect others to do everything for them. When we go to confession, by God's help, we're saying it's my job, it's my responsibility, I'm going to get on and do what I can to change myself and change the world with God's help.

[A]

Welcome back, CATHOLIC ANSWERS live. Tom Nash is our guest. And we're talking about the Mass today. So if you have questions about the Mass, by the way, even if you've never been to Mass, if you have a question about the Catholic Mass, you're welcome to call 8883-1878-8488-3180-7884. We will start out in Portland, Oregon, where Nick is listening. We're awful glad you're here, Nick. Go ahead with your question for Tom Nash. Hi there.

[C]

That's Portland, Maine, by the way, the original Portland.

[A]

Oh, the less weird Portland.

[B]

And you lived in Boston.

[C]

Portland, Oregon, is named after Portland, Maine. So I just have to correct that.

[A]

I did not know that.

[B]

Yes. It's not one of the thirteen colonies. You were.

[A]

All right, go ahead, Vic.

[C]

Tell me why was it that prior to Vatican II with the Old Mass, we never had an Old Testament scripture reading? There were obviously a lot of psalms in the traditional Latin Mass, but why never an actual reading from the majority of the Bible?

[B]

There was preaching, certainly, but that's a good question. I don't have an explicit norm from the church which says why it was omitted. But I think that's one of the positive things of the reform of the liturgy, that we do have both a psalm and a New Testament and an Old Testament. Actually, sometimes we have more. We have an Old Testament reading, a psalm and then on Sundays, a New Testament reading and then the Gospel, of course, which is the crown of the New Testament. So to be quite frank, I'm not sure why that was specifically omitted, but there clearly were connections made between the Old and New Testament. And I'm trying to think. I think in some cases there were maybe I could check that on the break, but I think in cases that there might have been Old Testament readings and maybe not a New Testament reading, because I think again, that the point is showing, as you typically see with the Gospel and The Old Testament reading is show how the old foreshadows the new and is fulfilled in the new as we see in the Gospel.

[A]

But we're getting a lot more scripture now than we did say in 1950. Like, if you went back to 1950.

[B]

I'd get less proclamation of the Mass. Yes, we are.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, Nick.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, thanks very much. Yeah, I was curious about that. Appreciate the answer.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you very much, Nick. That's a real thing that we should celebrate. I feel like I actually learned a lot of scripture from the Mass. There's a lot of stories where you're like, oh, I heard that. I can't imagine if I had grown up in a time when they weren't reading a lot of those stories, I would never have heard of them.

[B]

Yeah, the great things is the parables were always there in the Gospels.

[A]

Well, the Gospels, sure.

[B]

No, but you write the stories from the Old Testament of Arius. Right, But I'd have to double check. I'm going to check my 57 missal on a break.

[A]

You are all right again, Tom, thank you for your question. Oh, no, that wasn't Tom. This is Tom. Tom Nash, meet Tom in Cranberry, New Jersey, the tastiest town in New Jersey. Hi, Tom. Thanks for your call.

[C]

Yeah, thank you for calling for inviting me.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

I was wondering. I listened to an EWTN radio cast about a couple weeks ago and they.

[B]

Were talking about the Holy Eucharist and the apologist.

[C]

I forget who it was. I think I remember. I hope I get this right. But he said that the bread and wine were not Jesus body, even after the epiclesis, when the priest calls down the Holy Spirit to change them into, you know, the actual body, blood of Christ, soul and divinity.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And I think of John 6 and that conflicts with John 6 that I'm.

[B]

A little confused question on that, my friend. Tom, did you say an apologist? Is this somebody on EWTN talking about the Mass or somebody? You were listening to Egyptian radio and were listening to our show Catholic Answers Live. Yes, yes, it was Catholic Answers Live. Okay. I suspect it was one of my colleagues. The real presence only occurs with the consecration. The epiclesis is prior to that. Right. And calling down the Holy Spirit. But we do not have a consecration thus transubstantiation until the words, this is my body, this is my blood, which would be in conformity with what we see in the Gospels in terms of the Last Supper and thus the institution narrative that our Lord had with consecration and consistent with John Six as well. Does that clarify that?

[C]

Well, in the first place, no matter what you're thinking, it's hard to wrap around my head.

[B]

Sure. But the epiclesis say we ask for the blessing, it's before the words of consecration. That's the distinction.

[A]

So did you want to know if Christ is present body and blood after the consecration or just in particular after the epiclesis? Tom?

[C]

Either one.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I know Mother Angelica always talks about body, blood, soul and divinity.

[B]

Yeah. And a good way to note it, Tom, is that Jesus Christ is present body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist in a whole and undivided manner. That is body and blood for sure, but after the manner of a spirit. And that's why, if you've seen, if there are more people than anticipated at Mass, and it talks about this in Catechism 1377, for example, that if a priest breaks the host, he is not dividing Jesus. Now, the person might receive a smaller peace of a host, but it is Jesus Christ fully present, body, blood, soul and divinity. And because it's after the manner of a spirit, as opposed to, as some people caricature the Mass, so and so's got a piece of his arm, so and so's got a piece of his leg. No, it's the full Christ. And that's why even if you have a smaller piece of an original host, you're still receiving body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ fully.

[A]

I'll tell you what I would like to do, Tom, and if you like it, I'd like to send you a book called the Eucharist Is Really Jesus by our friend Joe Heschmeyer. If you'd like it, just hang on the line. But there's probably no question or no subject we'd rather talk about than the Eucharist. So as you read or as more questions come up, I hope you will call and ask those questions. And I hope that that was a helpful answer to you. Just hang on. If you want to give Edgar an address, we can send the Eucharist Israeli Jesus to Cranberry, New Jersey. Yes, we can do it. Tom Nash, our guest. We're talking about the Mass. If you have questions about the Mass, whether you're Catholic or not, whether you know all about the Mass or whether you know nothing about the Mass. If you've Got a question, 888-318-7884. Andy is in Palm Bay, Florida, listening on Sacred Heart Radio. Glad to have you here. Andy, go ahead with your question.

[C]

Hey, thanks. It's Divine mercy Radio. I froze when I got asked.

[A]

Oh, so you want to give credit to Divine. No, I appreciate that, because we do. We love Sacred Heart radio, but we wouldn't want to leave out Divine Mercy radio. So, Andy on Divine Mercy, listening on Divine Mercy Radio. Go ahead with your question.

[C]

Yes. So in the Mass, we pray for those who have died, but there's also a prayer for those who have fallen asleep. And I just wanted to know what the reference to falling asleep is and who that is.

[B]

Well, fallen asleep is another way of saying simply that someone has died. Because that is a metaphor, a synonym, if you will, as a phrase to describe someone who's died. So whether you say someone has died or gone before us or fallen asleep because the hope of the resurrection with the second coming of our Lord, those are two different ways of saying the same thing. Not that someone's in a coma. Not that someone's in a coma, for example, and waiting to be revived, although we pray for that person, too. But sometimes you see the saints who have fallen asleep, it's a reference to the fact that they have, in terms of their temporal life has ended, but their spiritual life continues. And that's why we can talk about those in heaven, even though they don't have their bodies as the spirits of the just men made Perfect in Hebrews 12:23, which is also a good argument that, hey, if we can pray on earth and these spirits are now in heaven and they've been made perfect, why couldn't they, with God's grace, intercede for us here on earth? So there's that way that can be shown that they've fallen asleep, they're in heaven, and also that they can intercede for us.

[A]

Okay, Andy, Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Oddly enough, our next call also comes from Divine Mercy Radio. Joseph is in Florida listening on Divine Mercy Radio. Glad to have you. Joseph, go ahead with your question for Tom Nash.

[C]

Thank you. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

During the Mass, at different times, at the beginning of the Mass, before the Gospel, where the priests would say, the Lord be with you, and after consecration, you would say, may the Lord, the peace of the Lord be with you always. Some people would say, and also with you and others and with your spirit.

[B]

Yes, still.

[C]

Which one is the correct one?

[A]

Well, hang on, Joseph. Like, still today when you go to Mass or this was in the past.

[C]

Many times during. Not just today, different masses that have been.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. It's not just one. It's just not one day.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay.

[B]

Yes. Thank You, Joseph, for that question. Sometimes you had the very irregular, the Lord is with you and also with you, which clearly is not good, because it's a presumption that someone's in a state of grace when we don't know that. But it's supposed to be, not simply. It used to be the Lord be with you and also with you. That was changed when they updated the Roman Missal about a decade and a half ago. And so it should be with your spirit is the correct response to a priest. And if you see that, I would just maybe talk to the priest afterwards and gently say, hey, Father, the rubric say with your spirit. And I would encourage you to do that, to do that. If there's an issue and you try to have a discussion, one can always speak to one's bishop. But I always say, if you're going to write a bishop about a particular priest, parish priest, whoever, always affirm the good that the parish priest, the pastor, is doing. So because we want to affirm priests, they have very challenging roles and our job is to work with them. This is the hierarchical structure.

[A]

I think this is just the response, though. So the priest is saying, peace be with. Be with you. Peace, Lord. And some people are saying, and with your spirit. And some people are saying, and also with you.

[B]

Is that right, Joseph?

[C]

Yes, good point.

[B]

Yeah. It's not. The priest doesn't change it. But you're right. Exactly. Thanks for the precision on that side. Then I would say if he hears that, to let him know that they should not. It's with your spirit and not. And also with you, because that's the clear norm that the Church gives and is to recognize him. Et cum spiritu tuo. That is the better translation of the Latin. It was more precisely translated in the more recent translation revision of the Roman Missal in the last couple of decades. And so that they should follow that translation because it's been authorized by the Church and whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. And so we are to be obedient in that regard. It's more precise. Ikum spirituo, with Father's spirit, his soul.

[A]

At that time, several things were changed. Like we used to say, one in being with the Father.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And now we say consubstantial, because that's a better translation. So it was just an effort about maybe 13, 14, 15 years ago to get the English. I don't even know if it was in the whole English world. It was in the United States to get the responses to be more consistent with the standard response that most of the world was using based on the Latin. Does that make sense? Joseph yes.

[B]

And I was and one quick addition is that I remember, I think it was 2003 when it was passed in the US and then affirmed by the Holy See. And then I think the formal, the missal and the lectionary were 2010. I think in Advent going into 2011 or 2011 going into 2012, when everything was all fully instituted and then you.

[A]

Could tell who hadn't been to mass for a while. Like a year later, they would give all the wrong responses along with me. I was the last person who could internal I was so slow with this. JOSEPH I'll tell you what, thank you very much for the question. I'd like to send you a book. I appreciate that question very much. And we'll send you the Early Church was the Catholic Church, another book by Joe Heschmeyer, if you would like it. All you do is hang on the line. We have a very generous donor who makes it possible for us to send books out and we would love you to have that one. The Early Church was the Catholic Church. The Number here is 888-318-7884. Only one line open right now. So dial and we'll get you in there. If you can get that one line that's open, 888-318-7884. Tom, you are obsessing. No, you're not obsessing over. You're fascinated because there's an election tomorrow in the church. Yes, we're getting a new pope.

[B]

We are getting no, not a new pope, but a new president of the U.S. bishops Conference.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I used to cover that when I was at Catholic Chat of faith for 10 consecutive years from 1996, the fall meeting used to be in D.C. at the time, from 96 through 2005.

[A]

Used to do the reporting. Like.

[B]

Yeah, well, I used to go there and interact on our behalf for our apostolate, interact with some bishops, try to cultivate new relationships further strengthen other relationships that were already well established. So all of that all for the good of advancing the mission of the church.

[A]

So tomorrow or tonight, we'll have a new president.

[B]

Tomorrow they'll be voting on it because you can catch it streamed on USCCB.org and there after the bishops outgoing president will have his statement and the incoming after that will be incoming file. Before the episode of Nuncio.

[A]

Lots of people have big questions about Catholicism. It needs a big book of answers. And now it's got one. The big book of Catholic Answers is filled with helpful replies to more than 250 questions about the faith, questions about God, salvation, history, the Creed, the Bible. The list goes on and on.

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Order your copy of the Big Book.

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Of Catholic answers [e-mail] or ask for it at a good Catholic bookstore near you. We hope that one of the things that we communicate here at Catholic Answers Live is that our Catholic faith allows us to be fully serious about all the problems we encounter in the church and in the world. But it also lets us have light hearts and maybe even mix in a bit of fun. And that is exactly what our good friend Joe Heschmeyer does in his popular podcast, Shameless Potpourri. You should check it [e-mail] Joe's got a deep grasp of the faith, morals, the teachings of the Church, all that. But he's also got a witty conversational style. He entertains and informs, but you will leave equipped to better answer the most common challenges, misconceptions and questions about the Catholic faith. He's got insightful guests he does on air debates, and he takes a close look into all the things that you want to know about as a Catholic living today. You'll walk away knowledgeable and filled with joy. Look for Joe on his YouTube channel. Check him [e-mail] or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you hear, become a patron. What is the Catholic Church?

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Matt Swaim here.

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Tomorrow on the Sunrise morning show, we'll.

[A]

Talk about the feast of St. Martin of Tours and its coming connection to Veterans Day. Plus news, weather, sports and a whole lot more. Now back to CATHOLIC Answers Live. Welcome back, CATHOLIC Answers Live. Tom Nash, our guest this hour. And we're talking about the Mass and a lot of people want to talk about the Mass. So I'm going to go right back to the phone. Did you know that you can [e-mail] every day like it's Black Friday? We've gone and lowered prices. Store wide on the very, very, very best books you can give to any Catholic or more importantly, to someone who is considering the Catholic church. Come to shop.catholic.com now and check out these deals. Five books for 30 bucks. 26 different bundles. The Faithful, five $10 each with free shipping on these five special books. Dynamic duos, bogo deals that will reveal your superpowers. I don't even know what that means, but I'm excited about it. Bibles and catechisms galore. Great Catholic gifts for everyone. What are you waiting for? Run, don't walk to shop.catholic.com and load up on great bargains storewide.

[B]

You are a great ombudsman, or I should say a great proponent of our apostolate.

[A]

I am?

[B]

Yes. You know how to sell.

[A]

Why, thank you, Tom. It's all in the writing. Carrie writes these beautiful ads, but you deliver really well. Thank you, Tom. Alex is. We're like Heckle and Jekyll right now. Alex is in British Columbia and British Columbia is in Canada. Alex is watching on Facebook. We're glad you're here, Alex. Go ahead with your question.

[C]

Hey, thanks for having me on.

[A]

Happy to.

[C]

Yeah. So my question. I recently got into a bit of a discussion with my sedevacantist aunt, and she challenged me on the form of the sacrament of communion. You know, during the consecration. Her claim is that the words of institution changed, you know, the form changed into the nor in the norvis ordo. So the old form had during the consecration of the precious blood is shed for you and for many, and the new form had you. And for all I know, we've gone back. But her claim is that by changing the form, it's no longer a valid sacrament.

[B]

Well, the interesting thing, as I'd say to her, is that the official language of the church is Latin. And so it was always pro multis, but the English translation was for all. Right? So that if there's going to be quibbling about it, the actual official one was pro multis. But that doesn't. And quite frankly, Jesus Christ died for everyone. There's no doubt. You can look at 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:5, that Jesus desires all to be saved. He died for all, not a limited atonement like some of our Calvinists unfortunately believe. So to affirm, that doesn't change, as Thomas Aquinas, who centuries before you, me and your aunt would affirm that it is the words of consecration. The essential words are this is my body, this is my blood. Those are the essential words. The words about pro multis are additional and shouldn't be tampered with. But whether you say for many or for all, it is both are true. Yes. Jesus said for many. The question is how many? You know, God will determine. Our job is sales, God's is management. So I would just summarize it that way, that she's mistaken on that being essential, number one, for a valid consecration, and number two, that it was always pro multis in the Latin. It was a question of translation by the US Bishops. But still, either way, for many or for all, both are true in terms of what God did for us.

[A]

What do you think, Alex?

[C]

That's great. I can throw one more question on top of that.

[A]

Throw it on, Alex.

[C]

We have, because we've gone back to in the English, for many. Would that invalidate it? Now, if a priest was to say for all?

[B]

No, I think again, that would not. Because as Aquinas and the Church more the magisterium would affirm that the essential words are, this is my body, this is my blood. It would be a liturgical wrongdoing. Especially if somebody did deliberately. If somebody with old habit because they were used to the old Mass and then went back to it accidentally, that would be incorrect, but not a sin. But no, it wouldn't invalidate it. Bottom line.

[A]

Alex, Thanks. I want to ask Tom a question that follows up on your question, because I wonder if my approach to Alex's aunt would be valid or dumb. And this fundamental question would be, is, is she the custodian of the sacraments? And that. I don't mean it in a rude way, and I probably wouldn't ask it that way, but the question is like, there seems to me like, I like your explanation and it's important to explain things, but there has to be a fundamental understanding that you, me, your aunt, your grandma, you're not the custodian of the sacraments, The Church is.

[B]

Well, I think sometimes the sedevacantists will. And you don't see, for example, Pius XII, when he was elected as, oh, this was wrong. Excuse me, Pius XII died, and then John xxiii, there was not an uproar like, hey, wait a minute, Cardinal Seri was the actual person elected. Only when people don't like how the Church's going a decade or two later, do they say, oh, wait a minute, that wasn't a valid election, or, wait a minute, that was. The Second Vatican Council is not a legitimate ecumenical council. We don't see the brouhaha, the protests, if they were genuine at the time. And so I would say, yes, you're right, we have to trust in the Magisterium, Jesus Christ said, the gates of hell will not prevail against us. And that would encompass having a valid Mass rite. And so even if one might prefer the traditional Latin Mass over the newer rite, I hate to say Novus Ordo because it's often used pejoratively, the Ordo misse or the Ordinary form, as Benedict would say. Pope Benedict xvi, either they're both valid Masses, and those who say otherwise, I would say, as much as they want to hear it, that they're being protesting in taking upon themselves magisterial prerogatives regarding how to properly interpret sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

[A]

Now, how about that, Alex? Are you satisfied?

[C]

I'm very satisfied. Thank you very much.

[B]

Welcome, brother.

[A]

God bless you. God bless you. Thank you so much. I got time to do another call. Everybody wants to talk about the Mass, and you want to talk about the Mass. So let's talk about the Mass. Seth is in illinois, listening on 88.5 FM. Glad to have you. Seth, you got a question about the Mass?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I want to know why it appears that the Catholic Mass is becoming more and more Protestant. When I think of things like the Council of Trent, which, you know, kind of solidified the Mass and put priests in seminaries so that the Mass would have, you know, a certain order and a certain form to it, then we come to the Second Vatican Council, you start seeing a lot of things change. Now it's like you go parish to parish, diocese to diocese, and people are doing everything different. Like, I can go to one parish and it's just a priest in the deacon distributing Communion. I go to other parishes, and you have like six to ten sacristicians and all these people receiving in the hand. Especially when you think of someone like Martin Luther, who preached receiving in the hand, you know, was all about that the real presence isn't there. He called that consubstantiation and all these other things. And I think that it really hurts people. It hurt me growing up because I didn't even really understand the true presence in the Eucharist. I mean, it just seemed like we're at a supper meal and not at the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary. Sorry, even Mass. Go ahead.

[A]

No, I just wanted to get it. Move you to a question. So you're about to say when you see the Mass, and I think that was going to be a question. So go ahead.

[C]

When I see the Mass, it seems like over the last seven decades, you know, since the Second Vatican Council, it really seems like the Mass is becoming More and more Protestant and less and less Catholic.

[A]

Tom, what do you say to that?

[B]

Well, as one who grew up pre Vatican II by birth, but post Vatican II by First Communion, and we received on the tongue, receiving in the hand only came into the 70s. But even then, I would say this. The real issue is one's disposition, how one is internally. Now, I would argue this. I think if you're trying to get rid of, you'd probably have a bit of a liturgical riot if you tried to save people, you got to now receive in the hand. I think what would be ultimately better in terms of raising eucharistic awareness and reverence would be to reinstitute the altar ales, or as many parishes have done, kneelers, so that people realize whether they receive in the hand or on the tongue, that they are kneeling. And that's a reminder, hey, this is our Lord Jesus Christ. There's nothing in the actual Mass that downplays that in terms of the real presence of, as I said in the previous caller, this is my body, this is my blood. Those are essential to consecration, and those aspects of the form of the Eucharist, the sacrament of the Eucharist, are indeed retained. With regard to the sacrifice, you make a good point that it is a sacrifice. We try to promote that reality. I've written a book about it, the Biblical Roots of the Mass, one, a book that's more easily available. I wrote a chapter on it called To Whom Shall We Go? So I'm very much important on showing how how the sacrifice of the Mass is not simply going to Calvary. Excuse me, going to Calvary in mystery, but indeed heaven and earth become one. Because Jesus sacrifice didn't begin and end on Calvary, but rather, as he tells Mary Magdalene, do not cling to me, but have not yet ascended. So he ascends into the heavenly sanctuary, taking not the blood of goats and calves, but his own, and therefore that the sacrifice culminates in everlasting glory. The Catechism of the Catholic Church hits on this in Catechism paragraphs 1137, 1139. And this is the reality. We are becoming one with our Lord Jesus Christ in heaven. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Nowhere more profoundly are those words of the Mass fulfilled.

[A]

Excuse me.

[B]

No, more profoundly are those words of the Lord's Prayer fulfilled than in the sacrifice of the Mass. So we become one. So properly understood, you know, that's the. You mentioned some peripheral things about who's giving communion or how they're receiving Communion, et cetera, that would be a more peripheral issue. And the church has the power, as Cy was hitting on earlier about the bind and loose. So we follow what the church says, but indeed, the Mass is still the Mass, even if it's in a different rite.

[A]

I have to say, Seth, I travel a lot and go to Mass around the country, and it seems essentially the same in almost every case. There have been a few occasions where some really weird stuff went on.

[B]

You have different music depending on the.

[A]

Mass, but mostly it doesn't seem to me that it's substantially different parish to parish, diocese to diocese. In the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, for example, for some reason, they start in the back of the church and go forward for communion where most places they start. Well, it freaks me out every time they do it, but I don't understand why they do it. But it's not an essential difference.

[B]

It's the same thing. No. And you say substantial differences because even Luther, God bless him, and this is what he had a more Catholic view than Zwingli and Bucer. He believed in the substantial world presence. Sadly, he didn't believe in the Eucharist, but it was consubstantiation with the bread and wine. So it was not a transubstantiation, but rather the present within and under the bread and wine. And that we could. They could benefit. A Lutheran could benefit that we don't recognize the validity of their sacraments. They don't have valid priesthood, but that's the bottom line with them. And they, of course they don't believe because it's not a sacrifice. They don't believe the ongoing real presence. They do not have tabernacles, as would our orthodox brothers and sisters.

[A]

Seth, any reply to all that?

[C]

Yeah, I completely agree on the altar rails and all that. And that's actually what led me to another parish, because they do that. And then I read, you know, because I live in the Archdiocese of Chicago, and, you know, the cardinal here said last year that everyone should receive standing and no one should be kneeling. And then I read today that in Charlotte, which a lot of stuff is happening, changing over the last year, that they now want to ban ultra Rails. And they want. They say that it's the norm of the church to receive standing. And it's like, I see these things. I don't understand how it's helping.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's interesting.

[C]

I just don't get it. I don't understand it.

[A]

But I mean, Seth, do you have to, like, the church has always had different bishops. Do things different ways and even have bishops that sometimes do things the wrong way. I don't. What is it that you have to understand?

[C]

I don't understand why receiving, kneeling and on the tongue used to be the norm. And it was the norm for over a thousand years. And now in the last couple of decades, they're pushing, it seems like they're pushing people to be standing.

[B]

And Seth, I want to affirm you that you can receive kneeling. And even if your archbishop says this is not to try to get into a public fight, by no means, but rather that the Congregation for Divine Worship, now the dicaster for Divine Worship said that even though that is the norm for the US that if someone is not to be refused when they kneel, and if that is your preference, that is your right now one can bow and still be reverent. Ultimately, it's our interior disposition, as I noted earlier, that's most important, not our outward, but the outward informs the interior. And that's why I think also kneeling, having ultra rails, whether one receives on the tongue or in the hands, would be a worthwhile thing to heighten Eucharistic reverence and therefore awareness about what we're receiving when we receive the Eucharist and maybe not to receive if we're questioning our state of grace.

[A]

Seth, thank you very much for the call. I'll send you the book. The Eucharist is really Jesus, too, if you'd like it, and this does seem like one, maybe we could discuss more. And I would invite you to call back and we can continue the conversation, because it sounds to me like there's a bit of dismay about this. And there oh, my goodness. I was 18 months old, Tom, when they closed the Second Vatican Council. And I was thinking the other day, I have not been in a settled church my entire life. It's been uproar and conflict and confusion. And I don't want to make light of that part. But I also, on the other hand, want to assure Seth, it's the Mass. You're safe going there.

[B]

You're.

[A]

The church has always I mean, if you think of the way the Mass was celebrated in the year 1000, it was a confusing patchwork of and some of it was weird. And we don't live in that world now. But we just, we shouldn't have an idealized view of the past.

[B]

Yeah. And also, too, to hit on you talk about the continuity that Christ is, you know, we have how many popes? 267, roughly. And we have one Christ. We have one Jesus Christ. He is our founder. He's the one who sustains us. He through all the centuries, through all the problems, internal, external. And you know, even with differences, we mentioned earlier about why do we not have an Old Testament reading in the Old Rite, while they do have in the Introit, they did have a verse from the Old Testament. So you did always have that element. Now it's a longer reading in the New, but they did. To be fair as well, or to be clear, there were Old Testament readings at the Easter vigil every year in the Old Rite.

[A]

Seth, thank you again for the call. I hope you will continue to call and we can continue to talk about these things because in part, I would like there are a few priests. I would like to hear them, not very many, but a few that I would like them to hear.

[B]

Seth, because.

[A]

Why make people distraught who want to just come to Mass? If they want to kneel, let them kneel. Leave him alone.

[B]

The congregation, true to the US Bishops that the norm was to kneel. Excuse me, to stand and with a bow of the head at the same time, it was very clear by the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline in the Sacraments, I think it was 2003, roughly in the 2000s, made it clear, Sy, that if someone decides to kneel, he or she is not to be refused. And so this is where we need to see legitimate plurality within the essential unity.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Right back with more questions on the Mass for Tom Nash on Catholic Answers Live.

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[A]

Welcome back. Catholic Answers Live. All right, we're gonna go short shrift now because there's a lot of people on the Line want to get all their Mass questions answered. Tom Nash is our guest. Richard is in Charleston, South Carolina, listening on 7:30am we're glad you're here, Richard. Go ahead with your question for Tom.

[C]

Yeah, thank you for taking my call. First, I want to give you a little comment. I am a eucharistic minister, and so what we do, when people approach, you know, the altar and they're not able to receive, we just look at their eyes and just say, Christ, grace be with you. And so they asked us not to reach out or anything like that. Just in essence, they cross their, you know, their hands with their chest and you just say, christ grace be with you.

[B]

That's a way to, that's a way to work it out as well, because you're not even saying a blessing that's authorized. For example, on Saint Blaise, the feast of Saint Blaise of blessing of throats. Well, you're saying Christ be with you is a good way to. Yeah, I think that's legitimate. And now while some people say that's not strictly authorized, I think it's a happy medium given that many people will come forward and trying to get people say, wait, you need to go over to that other line for the priest. I think you could work for that direction. But I think what you're suggesting, I'd like to say, Richard.

[C]

Yeah, we got a large parish, so, you know, it would be very difficult for people to be changing lanes.

[B]

No. Yeah. And I'm sure that your bishop and pastor thought about that and I commend them in terms of respecting the norms of the church about blessings during Mass being restricted, strictly speaking. And what you're saying is you're wishing them well.

[C]

Right. So moving on to my question. So I'm very excited and please pleased that our pastor now does, or a priest now allows the as part of communion, receiving the blood of Christ. And I just think, you know, I just think that's just so important as Catholics that we get to receive both. Or I have the option if, if I can say it that way, receive both the body and the blood of Christ.

[B]

Quick thing, though, to note that whether we receive the host or just receive one of the species of the consecrated precious blood. Right. That we receive Jesus Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity. There was a priest called Jan Hus back several centuries ago who had the heresy that you had to. It was utrachism or utrachoism. U T R A Q U I S M that, you know, you needed to receive both under both elements to Receive the whole Christ, but that's not what the church has ever taught. We receive the full Christ, whether we receive just a host or just under the species of consecrated the precious blood, because he is there in a whole and undivided way.

[C]

I understand the position of the church, and yet if Christ did not want us to do both, you know, body.

[B]

And blood, I can appreciate what you're saying. There's a greater sign value. No doubt about it, brother. At the same time, we need to respect what the church says in terms of. Yeah. And then the other thing I could say is a bridge between the two. Have intention, but that would mean receiving on the tongue.

[A]

Richard, I got to leave it there because we're getting near the end, and there's a whole bunch of folks on the line. Let's go to Michael in Buffalo, New York, watching on YouTube. Michael, go ahead with your question for Tom Nash. Hello.

[C]

Can you hear me?

[B]

Very well.

[C]

Okay, thank you. So I have a question. Quite a few people in my parish go to the recent canonizations of, like, Carlo Acutis, and when they were there, they also stayed and witnessed the LGBTQ Mass.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And they came back a bit discouraged.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I didn't know how to explain it to them because there was quite a few members of the youth groups.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And they said that if this was meant for people who to welcome people in the church or people that may feel they're not welcomed, why are we not having masses for Protestants or atheists or adulterers?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What they witnessed what seemed to be more of an affirmation, and then there was no nothing in the homily or anything to kind of refer to a change or leaving sin behind. And I didn't know how to explain that.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's a legitimate point when you have that, because they're coming in with the flag. And here's the thing. I mean, Pope Leo was not there, but I think it would have been helpful to point out that. Wait a second. We reach out to our brothers and sisters in various states of life, various lifestyles, whatnot. Everyone is welcome, but we need to be in a of state. State of grace. As you say, a person who's committed adultery needs to come forward only after he or she has repented and received sacramental absolution in the sacrament of confession. So what I would say to those young people, as I've said to other people, is the Church remains the Church. Sometimes you can have actions that are not helpful or not clear, and in some ways, we have stumbling block for some people, but to keep our eyes on our Lord Jesus Christ. And also would say to one, this is where a bishop or a priest can say something in the local parish to clarify. But it's quite clear what the Church teaches on homosexual sex versus the orientation regarding homosexuality. So we need to always be have the door open. Our president Chris, check his brother Father Paul for many years. Wonderful apostolic called courage, which I would highly recommend. So I think this was unfortunate in terms of an attempt to try to welcome people, that they did it under the guise of the rainbow flag, which is always typically associated with embracing the lifestyle, not embracing a chastity according to one's state of life. So, yes, I would just tell them, keep your eyes on Christ. Know that the Pope is the Pope. This is something that regrettably happened. And yet we keep our eyes on our Lord Jesus Christ, as we always have for 2,000 years. And because to whom shall we go? We have to, as St. Paul, as Peter said to Jesus on John 6, we always look to Christ. He is the one who founds the Church. He is the one who sustains the Church and will always do it. And he always ensures that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. And therefore we will not have, as some people would argue, a heretic Pope or that the Church would be destroyed otherwise.

[A]

Michael, I'm going to leave it there and say thank you because we're coming near the end of the hour. It looks like we need to do more hours on the Mass, Tom, because the lines are still full and the hour is over. It does seem to me that the rainbow flag is a flag of the modern sexual liberation movement. And that is not consistent with the cross of Jesus Christ, which is a movement of self giving, not of self gratification and repent.

[B]

And then believe in that. The truth will set you free. Like I've seen the sisters, so called Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. They made their debut or made their very big public debut in San Francisco when the Pope was up there speaking. And some have come up and it's like, if you're dressed like that, no, I'm not going to give you communion. If you come back and you're not dressed in this defiant way, because they very much mocked the Mass then, hey, come, brother, come, sister, come and receive our Lord.

[A]

But I think, as you said, Tom, if I understood you correctly, the fact that you have an orientation or a direction or an inclination, God loves you.

[B]

And welcomes you and walks absolutely. And we're all called to live. Chastity, every person.

[A]

Tom Nash has been our guest. We're going to take a very quick break. I really feel bad. I mean, people really want to talk about the Mass. I'm not kidding, Dom. I look forward to being back.

[C]

All right.

[A]

We'll do it again soon. Thanks to everybody who called. Sorry we didn't get to everybody. We'll be right back with more Catholic Answers live right after this Sat.