Catholic Answers Live — Episode #12453

Was the Mass Meant to Be Ongoing? Mary and OCIA
Guest: Tom Nash (theologian and author)
Air Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Cy Kellett

Episode Overview

This episode of Catholic Answers Live is dedicated to answering listener questions about the Catholic Mass. Host Cy Kellett welcomes theologian Tom Nash to tackle a variety of topics—from the participation of lay people in the liturgy and changes in Mass practices post-Vatican II, to the nuances of Eucharistic theology, liturgical translations, and parish diversity. Nash brings historical, theological, and pastoral insights, addressing caller concerns with candor and clarity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lay People’s Role at Mass

Timestamps: [03:50]–[08:44]

• Laypeople may serve as ushers, altar servers, readers, or sacristans, but some roles (e.g., reading the Gospel) are reserved for clergy.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 04:15):
    “The Gospel is to be read by either a priest or a deacon.”
• There is a custom in the U.S. where lay Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion sometimes give blessings during distribution of Communion. Nash explains that formal blessings during the Mass are reserved to clergy, but acknowledges the pastoral intent of making everyone feel welcome (children, non-Catholics, those unable to receive).
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 05:23):
    “Blessings especially are restricted to a priest during Mass...but I would urge bishops and priests to say, hey, go to the priest in the line [for a blessing].”

2. Scripture Readings Pre-and-Post Vatican II

Timestamps: [11:52]–[13:52]

• A caller asks why, prior to Vatican II, the traditional Latin Mass did not include Old Testament readings (except Psalms).
• Nash admits he’s not sure of the original rationale, but praises the “positive move” of Vatican II for including a broader selection of Scripture (Old Testament, Psalms, New Testament, and Gospel) in the current lectionary.

3. The Epiclesis, Consecration, and the Real Presence

Timestamps: [14:25]–[17:35]

• A caller is confused about when the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ.
• Nash explains that true transubstantiation occurs at the consecration (“This is my body...this is my blood”), not at the preceding epiclesis (calling down of the Holy Spirit).
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 14:57):
    “The real presence only occurs with the consecration. The epiclesis is prior to that...but we do not have a consecration until the words, ‘This is my body, this is my blood.’”
• After consecration, Christ is wholly present in either the host or the cup.

4. Liturgical Language: “And with your spirit” vs. “And also with you”

Timestamps: [20:26]–[23:55]

• A listener asks about the correct response during Mass: “And with your spirit” now replaces the former “And also with you.”
• Nash emphasizes that the Church updated the English translation to be more faithful to the original Latin “Et cum spiritu tuo,” highlighting the importance of unity and obedience to Church authority.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 22:35):
    “It’s with your spirit, not ‘and also with you,’ because that’s the clear norm that the Church gives...It was more precisely translated in the more recent revision.”

5. Mass Uniformity and Perceived Protestantization

Timestamps: [35:44]–[43:22]

• A caller expresses concern that the Mass has become “more Protestant” with changes such as Communion in the hand, additional lay ministers, and perceived loss of Eucharistic reverence.

• Nash counters:

  • Main elements—the Eucharistic prayers, the words of institution—remain unchanged.
  • The Church has the authority to make certain disciplinary and liturgical adaptations.
  • True reverence is in the heart, but external signs (kneeling, altar rails) do support internal disposition. He expresses personal preference for increased reverence.
  • The Church’s unity lies in Christ and apostolic succession, not uniformity of every practice.

• Quote (Tom Nash, 39:27):
  “There’s nothing in the actual Mass that downplays [the Real Presence] in terms of the real presence...Those are essential to consecration, and those aspects...are indeed retained.”

6. Reception of Communion: Kneeling and on the Tongue vs. Standing and in the Hand

Timestamps: [41:55]–[43:22]

• Caller questions why the norm has shifted from kneeling/on the tongue to standing/in the hand and laments restrictions.

• Nash stresses:

  • The Vatican has stated no one may be refused Communion for kneeling.
  • Outward posture is significant, but inward disposition is paramount.

• Quote (Tom Nash, 43:22):
  “If someone is not to be refused when they kneel, and if that is your preference, that is your right...But ultimately, it is our interior disposition that is most important.”

7. Liturgical Translations and Validity of Consecration

Timestamps: [30:05]–[34:06]

• Sedevacantist objections to changes in the words of institution (e.g., “for all” vs. “for many”) are addressed.
• Nash explains the official Latin text always said “pro multis” (“for many”), and that Christ died for all. The essential words of consecration (“This is my body...”) have never changed and are what’s required for validity.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 32:40):
    “It is the words of consecration. The essential words are ‘This is my body, this is my blood.’ Those are the essential words.”

8. “Fallen Asleep” in Liturgical Prayers

Timestamps: [18:47]–[20:10]

• “Fallen asleep” is simply a biblical idiom meaning death, used to express faith in the resurrection.

9. Masses for Specific Groups (e.g., LGBTQ Masses) and Church Teaching

Timestamps: [50:41]–[54:49]

• Callers report confusion after witnessing “LGBTQ Masses” and ask why such specificity isn’t applied to other groups.
• Nash stresses that the Church welcomes all but calls everyone to conversion and living chastity. Special Masses shouldn’t affirm sinful behavior, and all people are called to Christian discipleship regardless of sexual orientation.
  • Quote (Tom Nash, 51:38):
    “We need to be in a state of grace...Everyone is welcome, but...someone who’s committed adultery needs to come forward only after he or she has repented.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On internal vs. external reverence (kneeling):
  “[The] outward informs the interior...kneeling, having altar rails...would be a worthwhile thing to heighten Eucharistic reverence and therefore awareness about what we’re receiving...”
  — Tom Nash [43:22]

• On authority and unity:
  “You, me, your aunt, your grandma—you’re not the custodian of the sacraments, the Church is.”
  — Cy Kellett [33:26]

• On the purpose of the Mass:
  “Nowhere more profoundly are those words of the Lord’s Prayer fulfilled than in the sacrifice of the Mass.”
  — Tom Nash [39:27]

• On valid sacraments, even with minor liturgical errors:
  “It would be a liturgical wrongdoing...But no, it wouldn’t invalidate it. Bottom line.”
  — Tom Nash [32:58]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Lay roles and blessings: [03:50]–[08:44]
• Scripture in the Mass (pre/post Vatican II): [11:52]–[13:52]
• Real Presence and Consecration: [14:25]–[17:35]
• Liturgical translations (“And also with you”): [20:26]–[23:55]
• Validity of Consecration formula: [30:05]–[34:06]
• Concerns about Protestantization & reverence: [35:44]–[43:22]
• Reception posture controversies: [41:55]–[43:22]
• Special group Masses and Church teaching: [50:41]–[54:49]

Tone & Approach

Nash and Kellett maintain a friendly, pastoral, and informed tone. The conversation balances direct answers with sensitivity to listener’s concerns about reverence, authority, and pastoral adaptation within the Church. Humor and affection (for callers and each other) lighten the rigorous apologetics and make the episode accessible and engaging.

Summary

This episode offers a nuanced, faithful, and approachable exploration of Catholic liturgy and Eucharistic theology. Listeners will come away with historical context, clear explanations of Church teaching, guidance for concerns about liturgical irregularities, and encouragement to trust the Church's authority and Christ’s presence at every Mass.