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Our Lady of Fatima
00:30:20
Join Sr. Maris Stella of the Sisters of Life and Dr. Tim Gray for today's discussion on Our Lady of Fatima.
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- [00:00]
Tim Gray
Welcome to Form Daily. I'm Tim Gray, president of the Augusta Institute. And joining me today we have a very special guest, Sister Marie Stella from the Sisters of Life. And they have a wonderful house here in Denver. They're also their mother houses in New York. And we're blessed to have six of them here in Denver. And we have a special topic today, of course, today is the anniversary of Our lady of Fatima and the events that happened in Fatima 103 years ago. It's hard to believe that it was that long ago, but what happened in fatima basically in 1917, was going to be the key revelation, the key date that Our lady appeared to these three young children who were under the age of 10. And these three young children are given an incredible prophecy, an incredible revelation. And Mary, the Blessed Mother appears to these three children with a very important message. And. And of course, the setting for Fatima is going to be these apparitions are going to start on May 13, 1917, and they're going to last for the next six months. On the 13th day of each of those next six months, Our lady is going to appear to these children with important messages for the world, not just for these children, not just for what happens to these children in Portugal. Because Fatima is a small, humble little town in Portugal. And so when you think about that part of, you know, Portugal, which borders Spain right there in Europe, what was happening at that time was the First World War had been raging for a number of years, and it was the greatest slaughter that humanity had seen up until that point. And it was just a very dark, difficult time for the world. And Our lady comes and we're going to talk about that message and what it means today, but what it meant back then, too, in that setting. So we think about World War I, and of course, we know World War I will be followed by another. This is the war to end all wars. But unfortunately it didn't. There was another great war that followed, and there was warnings about that, that Our lady gave to the children, about repenting and turning to conversion to God so that there wouldn't be war, so that we wouldn't have humanity breaking out with such hatreds and evils. And when we lose God, we lose humanity, we lose peace. And that's going to be one of the messages of Fatima, one of the lessons, I think, of Fatima. But Sister Mary Stellas, you know, let's talk about what happens. But before we get to Mary first appearing to him in May of 1917, the year before an angel appears to them, and probably St. Michael the Archangel, because he was the guardian of Portugal, right? So St. Michael the Archangel, this angel appears to them, preparing them for what's going to be, which they don't know yet. The apparitions of Our lady and. And the Blessed Mother coming to them. You know, what does the angel kind of reveal to them? What's the purpose of this angel appearing to these three young children?
- [02:59]
Sister Marie Stella
Yeah, it's very special because we see God's care and tenderness in this. He sends an angel to them, and the angel, the angel of Portugal, teaches them really to, first of all, to worship God. And then the angel teaches them a prayer. My God, I believe, I adore, I hope in Thee, and I love Thee. And I ask pardon for all those who do not believe, who do not hope, and who do not love Thee. This is such a gift, really, because it centers the children right away on the heart of God. They learn to bow down and worship before their Maker. And in that, there's a freedom and a joy that comes when we know who created us and we can live out of that reality. And so immediately, that's where the instruction begins.
- [03:43]
Lucia
They.
- [03:43]
Sister Marie Stella
They believe in God, and that is really a conversion of their own hearts. And once their hearts are converted, they can pray for the conversion of others and draw others into that, to pray for the world.
- [03:53]
Tim Gray
Conversion is really one of the key words here, because conversion is going to be one of the main themes, because this is an invitation for the world to conversion. But I love how you said this, you know, this simple prayer, but beautiful prayer, just inviting them to adore and worship, love God, and that's what we're all made for, right? I mean, that's. We are made to give worship and love to God who loved us and made us. Right? And so we return that love in worship. And I think what's beautiful about this is that it kind of says something about the simplicity of that prayer, talks about the simplicity of the audience. I mean, you know, the angel now and then later it'll be our Blessed Mother doesn't appear to theologians, to bishops or priests or religious sisters. It's to simple peasant children here in Fatima. Right. And I love the angels, in a sense, is giving them a basic catechesis.
- [04:48]
Sister Marie Stella
Yeah, it's really incredible. You see, God chooses the weak things of the world and his love for the weak and the little ones. And I think that's a sign of hope for all of us that we can have. We are invited, each one of us. Our origin and our destiny is the love of God. And each one of us is invited into a relationship with the Lord, and he seeks us out first. I think that's also a great message from this.
- [05:12]
Tim Gray
He does, as you said. Think about it. The problem of the world is so immense right now, Right. You've got this first world war raging, and there's no end in sight. The best young men of all these nations are just being slaughtered. I mean, it's just a slaughterhouse what's happening in World War I. And you think, how is God going to reverse and solve this problem and change the fortunes of humanity? And he chooses three peasant children who aren't literate. Right. I mean, three peasant children. And you have Lucia, who's probably at that time, she's nine, I believe. And then you have her two cousins, Jacinta and Francesco. And Francesco at this point is eight, I believe, And. And Jacinta is probably seven. So, you know, you don't think, all right, how are we going to change the world? And of course, Pope Benedict XV at that time, was trying to change the world. Here is the spiritual leader of Christians and of the Catholic Church at that point. He's trying diplomatic means of trying to bring peace. And his efforts aren't fruitful, are they? What does he do?
- [06:25]
Sister Marie Stella
Yeah, it's really amazing. So he did try diplomatic means and people. There was no response. And so he made a plea to the entire world to begin a novena to Our Lady. He asked everyone around the world to pray to our Mother. And on the 8th day of the Novena was May 18 or May 13, the 8th day of the novena, God responds and sends his mother to us.
- [06:48]
Tim Gray
Yeah. And so then the Blessed Mother comes and appears to these children. And they kind of had been prepared the year before by the angel who taught them how to pray to God and to love and honor God and. And to make sacrifices for conversion. And now the Blessed Mother appears to them on May 13th. And it's the eighth day, the final day of this global prayer that Pope Benedict the 15th had invited the whole world to. And so, in a sense, Mary is kind of the answer to the prayers of the Church for help.
- [07:24]
Sister Marie Stella
God's response in times of darkness. He knows the world was, as you said, aching, in need of care, in need of love, need to be soothed. And God sends his mother. He's done this throughout history and different times. When the world is suffering, He's. He sends his mother to remind us that we have a God who loves us, we have a God who cares for us and who invites us into a deep relationship through our own conversion and by praying for the souls in the world.
- [07:50]
Tim Gray
You know, part of. Let's talk a little bit about what the angel, what the Blessed Mother says to these children on this, on this apparition on May 13, and it continues in June and July. And before we get to the promise that she's going to have a sign that's going to validate for the children because no one's going to believe three young, a 9, 8 and 7 year old. I mean, the world is not going to believe that as a credible witness. So there will have to be a major sign to validate this. But Our lady reveals her Immaculate Heart to them and she talks about her Immaculate Heart. I think that's significant. And then what else does that strikes you about?
- [08:29]
Sister Marie Stella
What message of fabric? Yes, to pray the rosary every day. This is a gift that our Blessed Mother has given us the rosary to meditate on the life of Christ. It's such a soothing prayer, prayer that takes us right to the heart of God and meditate on the mysteries of the life of Christ. So she asked them to pray the rosary and to pray for sinners, to pray for the conversion of sinners. Because we know there's so many who don't pray for themselves and we can draw them into God by praying for them.
- [08:57]
Tim Gray
Well, it's so striking because as the world is spending all of its wealth and capital to build up arms for this war, to create more weapons, to slaughter more people, Our lady comes and tells them to pray the rosary and she gives a spiritual weapon, right? And so all the weapons that each side in World War I are developing, each side develops planes, each one develops artillery, chemical weapons. I mean, horrific things. And all they do is bring more slaughter to each other. And there's no solution. No human weapon is going to be the solution. And what ends up happening is Our lady gives the rosary and this is the spiritual weapon that can bring peace. You know, these other weapons won't bring peace. And again, I love what you said too. She called them to conversion, to pray for sinners. Because at the heart of all conflict is sin, right? And you know, it's not oftentimes we get into political machinations. This nation is doing this politically and this nation's having to politically react to it. But really, if you want to lift the veil of what really causes conflict, it's sin. And war is the fruit of sin. War is the fruit of selfishness and of the anger and hatred that develops out of sin. And here Our lady comes to bring peace. And she comes to give the means. And so, in a sense, you would think, what can three little children do to end a global world war? Well, they pray. They pray the rosary. And in a sense, you know, if you look at the division of war, if we have a spiritual eyes to see, this is the devil and the demons who are bringing about this conflict with humanity, turning humanity in on itself and against itself. And here these children are armed with weapons that the devils fear far more than the armaments that are being fired across the lines.
- [10:57]
Sister Marie Stella
No, it's amazing because I think Our lady lifts their hearts higher. Lift up your hearts to what's most true, the deepest realities in this world. The fact that God exists, that he, the world is contained in him and his providence, that the world was created out of his love. And so the children are reminded of that truth, of God's existence and God's fatherly care for the world.
- [11:19]
Tim Gray
Yeah, well, you know, what I want to do is Our Lady's going to give these children because these poor children, they go back and their mothers don't believe them and they think they're crazy. And then at one point they get arrested and the mother tells the jailer, you know, get them to confess that they're lying. Right. Maybe if we can just terrify these children. And of course, what children who are making up a story get put in jail, they don't know how long. And the jailer tells them, confess that you're lying, you're making up the story, and we'll let you go. And their parents are telling them, confess what children hold out if they're making this up. And of course, these children are consistent. It's remarkable, their perseverance.
- [11:56]
Sister Marie Stella
It's really unbelievable. You see, they're armed with the mighty strength of God in them. They're filled. They're so deeply convicted that this is the truth. They've encountered the Blessed Mother and they know it. And they're willing to die for it, essentially.
- [12:10]
Tim Gray
Yeah. And they're happily willing to suffer. And it's just remarkable, their testimony, the children's witness. Well, Our lady tells them she's going to give a great sign to the world. And she promises to give the sign so that many will see and believe the message of these simple, humble peasant children. And of course, she promises that will happen on October 13th. So the sixth and climactic visit in apparition of Our Lady. And they're told that they have to go to a particular place and they move there. Now, I want to show a Clip from an amazing series that the Augusta suit was able to do with Father Michael Gately, called a series called Divine Mercy, the second greatest story ever told. And I want to show a clip that sets this up. But what's beautiful about happens on October 13 is that the word gets out and a crowd of, they estimate 30 to 100,000, right? So probably even as much as 100,000 people come out from all the cities. And so in the leading city in Portugal, and at this time, atheism is really spreading in Europe and especially amongst the intellectual class. And really the media in Portugal is dominated by atheists who are. Who have been, you know, over the last couple months, mocking this idea of Our lady appearing to these peasant children. This is just. And then when there's this idea that there's going to be a great sign, well, now tens of thousands of people, up to a crowd of 100,000 people accompany and go out there with Lucia and Jacinta and Francesco to go out to this place to see this great sign that's been promised. And of course, a lot of the atheists go out there to debunk that this is just this primitive religion that we've got to get rid of in this modern world. And we're going to show that there's no great sign. And so what we want to show you is a clip that shows what happened that day with the miracle of It's a rainy day, raining, pouring down, rain. We think, well, this is a great sign. Why is God having it rain when these children tell all of Portugal to come out to this, to see this sign? And yet in the rain we're going to see a great sign. And but what we do in this episode, and I think this comes from episode eight of Divine Mercy. So you're going to want to watch the rest of the episode. And it's on formed, you can watch it for free. But as you look at this episode, we take all the eyewitness accounts that we give you are eyewitness accounts that were recorded in the newspapers and it was recorded by a lot of atheist reporters who came out there to debunk this and came away converted and repentant. And it's really beautiful. So watch this clip, you're going to be moved by it and remember that all the testimonies are eyewitness testimonies that have been recorded of people who were actually there on October 13, 1917. So here's the clip.
- [15:09]
Sister Marie Stella
The people who had gathered saw something.
- [15:11]
Tim Gray
Very different.
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Francesco
As we approached the hillside upon which the Appearances were supposed to have taken place. I saw a sea of people.
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Lucia
It was a day of incessant drizzle. It was absolutely full of people. But for my part, I felt devoid of any religious feeling. A few moments before the miracle, it stopped raining.
- [15:40]
Francesco
Suddenly the rain ceased. The clouds separated, and I saw a large sun, brighter than the sun outside.
- [15:48]
Lucia
The people were shouting and weeping and pointing to the sun. One could see the immense multitude turn toward the sun, which appeared free from clouds and in its zenith. When Lucia called out, look at the sun. The whole multitude repeated, attention to the sun. Look at the sun. I can hardly find words to describe what followed. It looked like a plaque of dull silver. It might have been an eclipse which was taking place.
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Francesco
Then the sun started spinning and shooting streams of light, which changed it to all colors of the rainbow. At the same time, it started getting bigger and bigger in the sky, as though it were falling on the earth.
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Lucia
Before the astonished size of the crowd. The sun trembled, made sudden, incredible movements. Outside of all cosmic laws, the sun danced according to the typical expression of the people.
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Francesco
Everyone was frightened. We all thought it was the end of the world.
- [17:00]
Lucia
Near us was an unbeliever who had spent the morning mocking at the simpletons. We had gone off to Fatima just to see an ordinary girl. He now seemed to be paralyzed, his eyes fixed on the sun.
- [17:14]
Francesco
Suddenly the sun stopped spinning and returned to its place in the sky. Everyone started shouting, miracle. This is a miracle. Just then I noticed that both the ground and my clothes were bone dry.
- [17:27]
Lucia
People then began to ask each other what they had seen. The great majority admitted to have seen the trembling and the dancing of the sun. There was a man standing with his face turned to the sun. He recited the creed in a loud voice. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty.
- [17:49]
Francesco
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty.
- [18:11]
Tim Gray
And so Our lady truly kept her promise.
- [18:14]
Sister Marie Stella
A miracle for all to see and believe.
- [18:17]
Tim Gray
Well, Mary kept her word, that's for sure. And there was other elements that she revealed to those children, other promises. One of those is that her Immaculate heart would triumph in the end. And she tells the children that to pray for the conversion of Russia, lest Russia spread her errors throughout the world. And the church be persecuted. And there'd be great harm that would be done. And of course, at that time, in 1917, Russia is having great economic struggles, great internal struggles. And Russia is no major power. I mean, we think of Russia now as a major global player. But at that point, Russia just wasn't much of a concern to anybody politically And These children hear this. And of course, these are peasant children who don't know how to read at this time. And when they hear Pray for Russia, what are they thinking, Sister?
- [19:10]
Sister Marie Stella
Yeah, it's really interesting. It's quite charming, actually. They thought that Russia was a woman. They had never heard of the country of Russia, and so they began to pray for what they thought was a woman. But anyways, you see over time how their prayers have such power. You see the effect, the power of humble prayers, the sincere prayers, the little offerings we make to God. He can use them to bend history. It's actually stunning when you consider it.
- [19:35]
Tim Gray
Yeah, I just love that idea that they're thinking that, pray for Russia. Well, okay, we're going to pray for Miss Russia, whoever she is. And of course, it's a country. They're praying for her if she's a woman. And their simplicity reveals, you know, from the mouth of babes. Right. God uses them to be his mouthpiece here to speak. And I think, why does he use these simple children, you know? And I think part of it is the world at that time. He's calling for a conversion of sinners. There's the innocence of the children, and they become great witnesses of Mary's immaculate heart. Because Mary, and I love Mary, keeps referring to her immaculate heart as she's calling for the conversion of sinners. And why is that? Well, again, the problem, the root problem here is sin. And of course, the greatest sinner of all is the devil and the demons, who then work spiritually to entice humanity to follow their rebellion against God and their distrust and dislike of God. And so the devils want us to be sinners and to be enmeshed in sin. And so, and the sin that is growing and, you know, embodying culture and civilization at the time, Mary's immaculate heart is praying against the work of the devil. And these innocent children who are being basically catechized are being taught in a sense, you know, God has to, in a sense, divinely intervene. He has to send an angel to catechize these children. Because at this point, Portuguese culture is not catechizing these children very well. Right. And that's part of the problem in the world is that children aren't being catechized. They don't know God, they don't know the ways of God. And that leads them to falling into the trap of the devil and into the enticement to sin. And Mary, with her Immaculate heart, the one who never sinned because she was full of grace and loved God with her Heart above her, above everything in her life. And Mary wants to bring that kind of love. She wants to bring all of humanity. She wants to bring you and I to love God so that we could become Immaculate by grace, by the forgiveness of our sins, by the conversion of sinners. And that's part of the beautiful story here, is that yet there's bad news that Mary gives, and the angel tells the children that there's sinners. And one of the great warnings, one of the things is revealed to these children is a vision of hell. Right. And you would think, well, again, well, you know, why reveal hell to these children? Is God trying to scare the hell out of them? Right, but why reveal hell to these innocent children?
- [22:10]
Sister Marie Stella
Yeah, it was such a moment for them when they. It was terrifying, really. And then they began. What really did it spark them on to pray. They became powerful warriors of prayer, fasting of penance. Francisco used to sit in front of the tabernacle for hours just to console Jesus. Jacinta would make many, many sacrifices. They give their lunches away to other children.
- [22:33]
Tim Gray
Yeah, you think about just the little sacrifices they give. And I think this is part of the message of Fatima that the world needed to be reminded of is the importance of what we call in the Catholic tradition, mortification, which is sacrifices that we make in penance, not just for our own sins, but for the sins of others. And so here you have these three very innocent children, right? But like you said, they're giving up their lunches, they're skipping a meal, and they're praying for sinners. Right. And that brings about a spiritual power that is going to reverse things in the world. And that's so powerful, this idea of the rosary and giving up sacrifices, making mortifications. You know, if. And I just want to reiterate this for people. We need to pray for sinners out in the world, but we also need to pray, all of us know, today, because that people are falling away from religion. And, you know, if Fatima brought a renewal, we're 100 years later and there's now again, we're falling into, you know, people in the world are falling away from religion and God, and we are again bearing the fruit of cultural sin, where sin becomes accepted and, you know, and great travail is going to happen to us, just as it happened with World War I and World War II, if we don't repent and convert. I think that's part of the message of Fatima. There's a witness here. And so the spiritual power of fasting and sacrifices and Prayer for spiritual good. Because we're in a great spiritual conflict with the devil. And right now the devil's starting to take an upper hand in the world, and we have to fight back.
- [24:09]
Sister Marie Stella
I think this, this feast of Our Lady Fatima comes at a great time for us, too. We've been in the middle of this pandemic or two months into this pand, and it's our Blessed Mother coming to us, reminding us to lift up your hearts. The most important thing in the world is God in himself, and that he invites us into relationship and to pray and to fast. And that can change history. And we want these moments that we're living in to live it well, for it to change us, for us to be converted.
- [24:36]
Tim Gray
Yeah, you're so right, Sister. Because I think right now it's so easy for us to feel as we watch this Covid controversy, like why we feel so powerless. We feel like we can't do anything. We're waiting. Hopefully scientists will make a breakthrough and find a vaccine or a cure. You know, we're waiting for that, but we don't have to wait passively. And the lesson of what happened with Fatima is that this is a spiritual warfare going on. And if we can pray and fast and make sacrifices, God will bring a solution. Right. And of course, the COVID thing, think of the pandemic right now. There was a pandemic that hit. The Spanish flu hits very hard, especially the following year after this, in 1918. It's going to really ravage in a second wave of that pandemic. And we haven't had a pandemic since then, since the COVID So the COVID is this global pandemic. And it's been over 100 years since we had the Spanish flu, which was a global pandemic and killed 50 million people worldwide. It was a horrible pandemic. And, you know, one of the interesting things is one of the prophecies that proves, I mean, this is such a prophetic sign, what happened in Fatima? When you read and study Fatima, you can go into it as a skeptic. You will come out a believer. But, you know, the two children, Jacinta and Francesco, they're told by Our lady that they don't have very long to live. She says, I'm taking you to heaven soon. And I love the way Our lady talks about it. I'm taking you to heaven. So it's not. Sometimes we absolutize death as if it's the absolute worst thing, but death is the doorway to eternity. And that's why conversion is so important, because we don't want to die in sin. We want to be converted and repentant so we can be with God in heaven. Right. And so those two children die in the Spanish flu. Right. And the very following year, 1918. And they had told their mother repeatedly, we're not going to live long. We're going to die. Mary's going to take us to heaven. And that's what happens. It fulfills it. And of course, Lucia is told that she's going to live longer, you know, much longer than the others. And she lives to be in her late 90s, I think 97.
- [26:41]
Sister Marie Stella
Yes. Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, I think it's 97.
- [26:43]
Tim Gray
She lives till 2005. Right. Which is amazing as a witness. And of course, she lives as a religious sister. She consecrates her life. I mean, again, if these children are making this up, you don't just, you know, you don't predict you're going to die and then die next year for these two children. And Sister Lucia becomes a sister who her whole life is dedicated to witnessing, doing fasting and prayer.
- [27:05]
Sister Marie Stella
It's really amazing. And I think Francisco, they said after Our lady appeared to him, he had such a longing and a desire for heaven. He wanted to be with our Lord. And Jacinta, too, the same with her. And then Lucia, Our lady told her that she needed to learn to read and write so that she could share this message of Fatima with the entire world. So it's really incredible what became of these little saints. I think they're such powerful intercessors for us today, particularly in this pandemic. Jacinta and Francisco can teach us something. How to live it and how to live it well, with a longing and a desire for heaven.
- [27:39]
Tim Gray
Well. And there's canonization by St. John Paul II.
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Sister Marie Stella
That's right, yeah.
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Tim Gray
So why don't we just talk briefly? We only have a couple minutes left. But John Paul was very moved by Fatima and Our lady of Fatima, and he really believed Our lady of Fatima saved his life. One of the secrets of Fatima was this idea that Russia would spread the world. And of course, Russia did spread her errors through communism, which was very atheistic. But then, you know, the third one was that the Pope would be hurt. And the Pope, John Paul, when he was assassinated, the assassination attempt on him, he believed he was saved just by inches. Right. And he attributed that to Our Lady Fatima.
- [28:15]
Sister Marie Stella
Yeah. It's interesting because Jacinta took on when she saw that when Our lady shared that secret with her, it became her prayer, personal prayer to pray for the Holy Father. And it's interesting, when John Paul II eventually went there, he prayed at the tomb of Jacinta, in a way thanking her for her intercession. So John Paul said that one hand shot the bullet while the other hand guided it. He knew that he had been saved by Our Lady. In fact, his assassin said was shocked that he didn't die because he said he had a perfect aim at close range. And when he was shot on May 13, it was. It was very clear that he should have died.
- [28:48]
Tim Gray
Yeah, it was May 13th. And so he attributed to Our lady of Fatima, who came on May 13 and who foretold a Pope would suffer. And he was the one who suffered. And so, yeah, I mean, it's just a remarkable story. If you want to get the whole story, go back and watch Divine Mercy, the second greatest story ever told. It's on formed. And go back to episode eight. If you just want to dive right into the heart of that matter, to heart of that story, go back to episode eight. And I think right now, for the world today, the message of Fatima is important because it shows through the prophecies being fulfilled, the signs being fulfilled, that God is real. And just like in the time of 1917, the world today faces great struggle where we are giving up God, we are giving up religion, we are giving up faith, and we are falling deeply into sin and we need conversion. And the way we approach this, the way we are to fight this right now, my friends, is through prayer. Take up the Rosary every day. Trust Our Lady. Pray to her Immaculate Heart to triumph. You know, she brought the end of the errors of Russia non violently. And we need to pray. If we want to avoid violence and war, which is always the fruit of sin, we need to repent. And so there's great hope in the spiritual weapons Our lady has given us. And Our lady of Fatima, pray to her today. God bless you. Sa.