St. Clare of Assisi

Summary

Catholic Saints – St. Clare of Assisi

Podcast: Catholic Saints
Host: Augustine Institute
Episode: St. Clare of Assisi
Date: August 11, 2026
Featuring: Tim Gray (President, Augustine Institute) & Dr. Ben Akers (Executive Director of Formed)

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Episode Overview

On the Feast of St. Clare (August 11), Tim Gray and Dr. Ben Akers discuss the life, spirituality, and enduring legacy of St. Clare of Assisi. Drawing from historical context, personal anecdotes, and spiritual insights, they explore Clare’s radical embrace of poverty, her role in renewing the Church, and her influence on both her contemporaries and modern Catholics. The episode emphasizes the inspirational nature of St. Clare’s faith and her challenge to live with greater detachment and trust in God.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. St. Clare’s Context and Connection to St. Francis

• Clare was inspired and guided by St. Francis of Assisi; together, they began parallel renewals of the Church (01:36–03:05).
• The Poor Clares trace their roots to San Damiano, where St. Francis received his mission to “rebuild my Church” (02:13–02:41).
  • “She becomes a key part of the renewal of rebuilding the church… it doesn’t matter how bad and corrupt the church gets, God will always breathe his spirit and his life into it.” — Tim Gray (03:05)

2. Family, Conversion, and “White Martyrdom”

• St. Clare’s family was devout and influential, yet her decision to join Francis and embrace poverty caused deep family strife, particularly with her father.
  • “Clare’s conversion was not easy for her family, especially for her father… He wants to drag her out of the church.” — Tim Gray (07:05–09:24)
• Notable story: Upon Clare’s entrance, she cut her hair—a visible sign of her vow to Christ, which stunned her father and family (09:24–09:57).
• Clare’s sister, Agnes, followed her, leading to another dramatic confrontation involving miraculous intervention when Agnes became too heavy to be forcibly removed (10:03–11:04).
  • “Clare drops to her knees and prays the Lord to intercede… Agnes becomes so heavy that these 12 men can’t lift her.” — Ben Akers (10:03)
• The episode frames this renunciation as a “white martyrdom”—a lifelong sacrifice and separation endured for the sake of Christ (11:29–12:46).
  • “The palm is a sign of martyrdom… the white martyrdom of giving up her life.” — Ben Akers (11:29)

3. The Joy and Challenge of Religious Vocation

• Families initially resist but often come to appreciate the peace and happiness their loved ones find in religious life (13:04–13:40).
  • “That’s what every parent wants, is their children to be happy.” — Tim Gray (13:04–13:40)
• True vocation is marked by “deep abiding peace… and then joy” despite exterior storms (13:40–14:08).

4. Radical Spirituality of Poverty

• Clare and Francis’ radical poverty challenged both ecclesiastical authorities and contemporaries (15:29–15:54).
• The Church eventually approved Clare’s insistence on the “privilege of poverty,” living solely on donations (15:54–16:33).
  • “Poverty is a complete emptiness. To be a beggar before the Lord, to realize that everything we have is a gift.” — Ben Akers (15:54)
• The hosts encourage pilgrims to visit Assisi, emphasizing St. Clare’s incorrupt body, relics, and the inspirational atmosphere of the Poor Clares’ convent (16:33–18:18).

5. Miracles and Detachment

• The “miracle of the bread” at St. Clare’s convent: with only a single loaf, Clare instructed it be shared among 50 sisters, and all were fed (19:44–20:13).
  • “Mother Clare said, trust me, do as I said… and the miracle of loaves happens again at her hands.” — Ben Akers (19:45)
• Spiritual poverty is for all states of life, not just for religious (22:22–22:57).
  • Recommendations for laypeople: make small, hidden sacrifices; practice detachment in everyday situations (23:07–25:05).
    • “Do I own them, or do they own me?” — Ben Akers (21:50)
  • Quoting Father Thomas Dubay’s Happy Are You Poor, and practical suggestions for married couples (22:22–23:07).

6. Clare’s Eucharistic Devotion and Patronage of Television

• Notable miracle: When Assisi was threatened, Clare prayed before the Blessed Sacrament and the invading army retreated (25:53–26:13).
  • “She holds up the Blessed Sacrament and the people disband. The army just can’t face it.” — Tim Gray (25:53)
• Clare bedridden for 27 years, experienced Mass “projected on the wall,” leading to her patronage of television (26:13–27:30).
  • “She couldn’t attend Mass… she heard Mass and even, some say, saw it projected on the wall.” — Ben Akers (27:12)

7. Modern Parallels and Contemporary Inspiration

• Links to Mother Angelica, a Poor Clare nun who began EWTN, and the power of radical trust in God (27:30–28:44).
• Lessons: the miracles of Clare and Francis are not relics of the past; radical conversion and openhandedness can bear fruits today (28:44–29:31).
  • “The Lord wants to do great things with us… we only give ourselves in degrees to our Lord.” — Ben Akers (28:44)

8. Final Reflections: Living St. Clare’s Lessons Today

• Poverty is not about hatred of possessions but a trust in God’s providence and the superiority of heavenly treasure (29:31–end).
  • “Trust in God is beautiful. And it’s that our treasure in heaven is better than all the treasures that we give up here.” — Tim Gray (29:31)
• Concrete suggestions to honor St. Clare’s feast:
  • Practice detachment; make little daily sacrifices (salt, food choices, etc.)
  • Pray for a spirit of renewal and trust

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [03:05] Tim Gray: “If you know church history, it gives you a perspective that it doesn't matter how bad and corrupt the church gets, God will always breathe his spirit and his life into it. He will raise up the Francis and Clares who will renew the church.”
• [10:03] Ben Akers: “[Clare] drops to her knees and prays the Lord to intercede, to do something. And immediately Agnes becomes so heavy that these 12 men can't lift her.”
• [11:29] Ben Akers: “Palm Sunday has a deeper meaning with receiving the palm from the bishop as the secret code, because the palm is a sign of martyrdom… there’s a white martyrdom of giving up her life… for Christ.”
• [15:54] Ben Akers: “Poverty is a complete emptiness… to be a beggar before the Lord, to realize that everything we have is a gift from the Lord.”
• [19:45] Ben Akers: “Mother Clare said, trust me, do as I said… the miracle of loaves happens again at her hands.”
• [21:50] Ben Akers: “Do I own them, or do they own me?”
• [22:25] Tim Gray: “I’ve read his [Thomas Dubay’s] other books and I love them. I have not read that one.”
• [25:53] Tim Gray: “She [Clare] holds up the Blessed Sacrament, and the people disband. The army just can’t face it.”
• [29:31] Tim Gray: “Poverty… it’s that our treasure in heaven is better than all the treasures that we give up here.”

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Important Timestamps

• 01:36 – Introduction to St. Clare and her relationship to St. Francis
• 03:05 – The importance of renewal in the Church and God raising up saints
• 07:05–11:04 – Family struggles, Clare’s radical choice, and the story of Agnes’ “miraculous heaviness”
• 13:40 – Characteristics of true religious vocation (joy and deep peace)
• 15:54–16:33 – Clare's rigorous poverty and her negotiations with the Papacy
• 19:45–20:13 – The “miracle of the bread”
• 25:53–27:30 – Clare’s Eucharistic miracle and patronage of television
• 29:31–end – Practical suggestions for applying Clare’s example today

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Conclusion

The episode offers an inspiring portrait of St. Clare’s life and spirituality, connecting her challenges and triumphs to modern Christian living. Listeners are encouraged not only to admire saints like Clare, but to imitate their trust, detachment, and capacity for joyful surrender in whatever vocation or path God sets before them.

“Pray to St. Clare today that you may be more detached. May the Lord bless and keep you.” — Tim Gray (31:36)

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Transcript

[James Prothero]

Hi, I'm James Prothero, associate professor at the Augustine Institute Graduate School of Theology. We hope you've enjoyed listening to and learning from our professors on this and all our podcasts. The Augustine Institute Graduate School exists to make Christ and his church better known and loved through the exercise of academic study. With St. Augustine as our guide, we focus on the narrative of Scripture and the evangelization of the culture. Faculty and students alike immerse themselves in the rich sources of the Catholic faith, drawing upon sacred Scripture, the catechism of the Catholic Church, and the writings of the fathers and doctors of the church. We have 550 students and over a thousand alumni serving the church in parishes, dioceses, schools, the academy apostolates, the domestic church, and even the secular world. With master's degrees in theology, pastoral theology, Catholic education, and Biblical Studies, our programs are for anyone looking to go deeper in their faith. Are you interested in studying theology with the professors of this podcast? Earn your degree online or on campus in St. Louis, Missouri. Apply now for the coming term of study. Learn more@ augustine.edu.

[Narrator]

you're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live and share their faith.

[Tim Gray]

Welcome to form. Now, I'm Tim Gray, president of the August Institute, and Joining me is Dr. Ben Akers, who's the executive director of Formed and one of our professors here at the Gus Institute. And we're going to talk about. Since today is August 11th, the feast of St. Clare, and of course, St. Clare was inspired by St. Francis, and we'll talk about that. We're going to talk about St. Clare today. And we have a beautiful icon that Ben has of St. Clare, and of course, her sisters become known after she dies as the Poor Clare. She wouldn't let them be named after herself during her lifetime. So they were the Poor Sisters of San Damiano because they were at the church of San Damiano, I believe.

[Ben Akers]

That's right.

[Tim Gray]

And you can see the ancient convent they had that became attached and added on to the San Damiano Church. And of course, the San Damiano church is important because that's where the cross, Our Lord will speak to St. Francis from that cross in San Damiano and say, francis, go rebuild my church. And of course, St. Clair will start the women's side of the division of the Franciscans, which is really fascinating.

[Ben Akers]

I think it's beautiful that this is where they end up is at San Damiano, the church that he. He thought that the Lord was speaking to him to physically Rebuild the church. And then we know metaphorically and spiritually that to rebuild the church through a renewal of calling the church back to poverty, chastity and obedience. And that part of how he rebuilt the church was to inspire people to follow him, but also in the feminine branch with St. Clair to follow, right?

[Tim Gray]

And she becomes a key part of the renewal of rebuilding the church. And of course, it's not just going to be the Sundown Church. Francis was so humble. When he hears that voice, he thinks, oh, God wants me to rebuild this church. And God was thinking, no, I want you to rebuild my entire church. And I love that story because it gives us hope whenever there's difficult times in the church and people think, well, the church is so complacent or lukewarm or corrupt, how is it ever going to be renewed? And this has happened over and over again in church history. So if you know church history, it gives you a perspective that it doesn't matter how bad and corrupt the church gets, God will always breathe his spirit and his life into it. He will raise up the Francis and Clares who will renew the church. And that's what God did in the time of Francis and Clare. And God willing, that's what he'll do in our time, our day. That's the inspiration we should take away from that.

[Ben Akers]

It's a challenge to ask the Lord to say, what can I do? Do you want me to be part of this renewal? I want the church to be renewed. Have you invited me to be part of this renewal? And I remember being struck by a bishop in Virgin, and he would travel around and he'd go to the different confirmation masses, the different school masses, and at the end of each of his homilies or at the end of the Mass, he'd say, I want you to ask the Lord to the parents to ask to have the Lord take one of your children to be a religious sister or a priest.

[Tim Gray]

Wow, that's a sacrifice.

[Ben Akers]

It was a sacrifice and it was hard. I know people objected to it because, like, it's okay if some other family gives a priest or religious or has a missionary son or daughter, but not my family, it's okay for somebody else. And so I thought that was a wonderful challenge to ask the Lord to have you be part of the solution.

[Tim Gray]

I felt that in a very small, small, small, small way, we've had a couple of our students join the poor Claire's. So we've had many go off to religious life. But in the last two years, each of the last two Years we've had a student join the Poor Clare Sisters and the Poor Claire's in Oswald, Roswell, New Mexico.

[Ben Akers]

Roswell.

[Tim Gray]

Roswell, New Mexico. And, you know, they're fantastic sisters. But another one of our students joined another order, and she was working for us, and she was a great employee. And I was like, oh, man, we're really going to lose her. And we keep losing all of our best sisters. And we had one of our great alumni a number of years ago who I thought was going to go on and get her doctorate. She was brilliant, and I thought she would come back and teach. And she ended up joining the Dominican Contemplative Order of Dominican Sisters. So the Lord keeps stealing our graduates, who I keep thinking are going to go off and become professors for us eventually and get a doctorate. But he keeps taking them as his bride. So you can't argue with God, and they're serving great things. But I am inspired, like what happened with St. Clair and St. Francis, to renew the church, seeing our wonderful young graduates who are just beautiful, bright, full of energy, joining these religious orders. And it gives me hope that there is a renewal that's beginning in the church today.

[Ben Akers]

I agree. And one of the conversion for St. Clair, she calls her conversion after having listened to St. Francis. But when you read her life, it seems that she came from a good and holy family, that her mother was a very devout Christian, went on several pilgrimages to Rome, to Santiago de Compostelo, to try to discern what the Lord wanted her to do with her life. And so I think that's one of the recipes for, you know, fast forward now to the day in which we live. Was part of the renewal families coming from good families. St. Teresa of Avila has a great opening line in her autobiography, and she's the great reformer of the Carmelites. And she said, I had a great mother, a great father, I had a great family, and I was a terrible person.

[Tim Gray]

So, meaning, like even a terrible nun, she has to go through her second conversion.

[Ben Akers]

That's right.

[Tim Gray]

She's a nun for over a decade.

[Ben Akers]

So it just shows that conversion starts with ourselves, that first and foremost we have to listen to the word of God. That's to go back to how the renewal is going to happen in the church. Francis listened to the Lord. Clare listened to the Lord preach through the preaching of St. Francis.

[Tim Gray]

And, you know, even for great Catholic families like St. Clair has, her conversion was not easy for her family, especially for her father. Right. So her father hears about, you know, Clara joining up with Francis and Francis Is. He was. He's kind of shaken up Assisi, right? He was this crazy troubadour, wealthy kid, spoiled, and then he goes through this deep conversion, and then he gives up all of his wealth, his inheritance, in a dramatic way that the whole town of Assisi talked about and knew. And then he becomes a. He really lives poverty. I mean, radical poverty. And, you know, and now all of a sudden, all these young boys and some of the best families in France, in Assisi, some of their wealthy families, are seeing their young boys join Francis. Many are drawn to him. That's one thing that's happening. But all of a sudden, Clara creates a change, a new moment where she becomes the first young woman who wants to live a life of poverty and give up comfort. And when Clare tells Francis that she's interested in joining. And then, of course, Francis goes to the bishop, because now this is going to get complicated. We're going to have a group of women who want to live a radical life of poverty. This is going to be. And he goes to Bishop Guido, and Bishop Guido says that he's going to reflect on this. He interviews Claire, and then the word is, if she receives the palm at Palm Sunday from the bishop, that's the sign that she is free to go and enter the order. And the bishop gives her that palm personally on Palm Sunday. And that's the signal, because they don't want the families to know yet Clare's family doesn't know because they're going to object to Clare entering. And so then Clare secretly enters the Franciscans, right? Follows Francis, and her father's not happy. And then let's talk about what happens next.

[Ben Akers]

Right? So the image.

[Tim Gray]

He's a powerful man in Assisi.

[Ben Akers]

He was. He was even wealthier than Francis Father. So they were. They were part of this patrician class of wealth and ancient Roman family. And what the father does is he comes to bring her out of the convent, and she has cut her hair, her long, golden locks. And he gets frustrated with realizing that she's lost.

[Tim Gray]

Yeah, because I love that scene. Because he wants to drag her out of the church. And at this point, Francis puts her with some Benedictines, I believe, because he doesn't have a proper house yet. So he puts Claire with the Benedictines, although she's going to live a different kind of rule, a much more austere rule of poverty. He goes barging in there and tries to drag his daughter out. And then she takes her veil off to show that she has cut off all her hair. She has cut her hair short, as part of her vow to be dedicated to Christ.

[Ben Akers]

Right. That was a signal that she wasn't interested in getting married except to Christ.

[Tim Gray]

Exactly. She's made this vow. Virginity.

[Ben Akers]

Well. So Claire starts beginning to pray for her sister. And her sister, just two weeks later, decides to follow her sister into the convent. No, it doesn't go well either. No, the family loses it. And so the family actually sends 12 men, 12 strong soldiers to come and to take Agnes away. And they go into the church and they're dragging her away, they're ripping her hair, they're carrying her down the hill. And Clare drops to her knees and prays the Lord to intercede, to do something. And immediately Agnes becomes so heavy that these 12 men can't lift her. And then they call other men, and they're trying to drag her, and they can't drag her out. She have lead for breakfast. Like, they start mocking this miracle. And her uncle is in such a rage, he raises his sword to strike her dead. Like, I'm not even gonna let you go to the Lord. Like, you're just dead to the family. And he immediately becomes paralyzed in his arm and. And can't strike her. And that was a sign to the family, like, don't mess with this, that God's hand is part of this story.

[Tim Gray]

I love that. Because, you know, even the best Catholic families, when they have their child, who wants to go off to a convent or to the priesthood, it's a hard sacrifice. They're like, oh, we love. You know, they'll pray for vocations, just not out of their own family. And it is hard to have a child, to have your child go off to religious life. It's a real sacrifice.

[Ben Akers]

I think that's even signaled by the palm. Sunday has a deeper meaning with receiving the palm from the bishop as the secret code, because the palm is a sign of martyrdom. And even though Claire is not going to be martyred by shedding her blood, there's a white martyrdom of giving up her life, giving up everything, everything she knew, her family, all the comforts of life to go and serve Christ. And so I think that that's not only hard for families to give, that's a certain martyrdom for the family, but also for the person that's going into religious life. Of course, there's joy at the vocation and the following of Christ, but there's also hardship in the cross.

[Tim Gray]

There's no doubt. And that white martyrdom is for the parents as well as the child. I believe there's a real loss and a sacrifice, especially for entering some of these religious orders like the Poor Clares, where there access to go visit family and their communication with family is very, very limited. So it is a kind of dying. Do you have to die to your natural loves of your family and you have to put the love of Christ first. And that's very hard. And yet what's beautiful about St. Clare's story is her mother comes around and her sister comes around, right? And her mother later on in life is going to be such a, you know, so moved by what Clara has done and so supportive that she ends up joining.

[Ben Akers]

Right. That's the thing, is that we can never guess how people are going to react. We can only follow Christ and what he's asked us to do in our life. And the witness of our life will change other people's perspective on the world. And Agnes, her sister, was moved by it, her mother was moved by it. And they come and they follow her in this way of poverty.

[Tim Gray]

And I know that that has been true for several people I know who've entered priesthood or religious life where their families were really opposed to, pushed back against it, but then over time accepted it and they saw the witness of the joy and that's what they looked for, you know, is my daughter, is my son happy or are they miserable? And to see the happiness and to see the joy year after year really then shows to the family that this was from God and God is taking care of my child and making them happy. And ultimately that's what every parent wants, is their children to be happy.

[Ben Akers]

And that's a mark. Exactly. And that's a mark of true vocation, is the deep abiding peace, of course, that we're going to have storms, right? The storms. Think of the storms on the ocean on the top, right. But the deep water below is calm. Is there that deep abiding peace and then joy. And that's something that the Franciscans are known for, the male and the female branches of the Franciscans and the poor. Claire's. They're just known for their joy, their radical poverty and their joy even from having nothing.

[Tim Gray]

Let's just, since, you know, St. Clair loved Francis and his rule and let's just talk about the spirituality of poverty. Now we have done an audio that I should mention on the life of St. Francis, and Clare plays a large role in the last couple episodes. So at the end of the story, we have a couple different actors, one for the young Clare and one for the more mature Clare who Do a phenomenal job acting out the life of Clare for Francis. And of course, when you get to Clare and Francis, basically his illness in his last days, it's very, very moving. But, you know, you can get that in Brother Francis, the Barefoot Saint of Assisi, which is our audio drama. It's 10 parts and it's professional actors and actresses. The actress who played Claire did a phenomenal job as well as the actor who played Francis. He won awards for his depiction of Francis and it's unformed. So you just doing the search for Brother Francis and you'll find out. Listen to that. Just go to the last episode, go to the final episode for the Feast of Clare. It'll inspire you and give you some great insights into Clare in her own suffering. But let's just go back to Clare's devotion to poverty and how hard that would be for a young woman who grew up with. In a very, very wealthy family.

[Ben Akers]

Poverty is difficult for anybody, and we might not be called to radical poverty that Clare and Francis lived. It was so opposed that even the followers of Clare, the followers of Francis said, it's too much for. It's too much for you. You've enjoyed too much of life so far to give this up. And the Pope actually intervened and tried to get her to make her rule, maybe more look like a Benedictine rule.

[Narrator]

And.

[Ben Akers]

And she. She stuck to her guns. She said, no, I want to live the radical poverty that Francis lived. And in the end, she was vindicated and the Pope approved her rule. So poverty is a complete emptiness. To be a beggar before the Lord, to realize that everything we have is a gift from the Lord. So they actually still receive gifts. You can visit the Poor Clares in Assisi if you've ever been there, in the church where St. Clair is buried. And they just live on donations. And even the poor Claires, if you look them up, they look for donations. So monetary donations, or you bring them eggs or bread or things that they need. There's a great story of Saint.

[Tim Gray]

Oh, I was just going to say that. Yeah. At Santa Chiara, the Church of St. Clair in Assisi. And that's where Clara is buried. And you can visit her body and the relics there. And there's a little museum too at the bottom that they have there is Francis, is one of Francis robes. And you can see how patched up it is. It's really quite extraordinary if you ever get a chance to make a pilgrimage. Whenever I make a pilgrimage to Rome, I always try to go to Assisi and I find Assisi, the most edifying and encouraging part of my trips to Italy and to Rome. And people oftentimes short their trip in terms of Assisi. I'll make it a quick day in and out, or maybe they do one night, but I always recommend doing at least now. I always take groups. I always do at least two nights in Assisi and no one complains. They all think it's the greatest highlight of their pilgrimage.

[Ben Akers]

It's a beautiful setting in the Umbrian Valley. It's on a hill in the Umbrian Valley and there's a mountain you can hike to of a hermitage that St. Francis would go and pray. And then the church of San Damiano that he built. And then the Portciuncula, which is a little church inside of a church that he had built as well. And then the Santa Chiara where St. Clair is buried. And then just in the 19th century, she was buried into the base of the church because they used to steal relics. And that's another story for another day. But they uncovered it in the 19th century and they found her and she's still incorrupt. So there's a wax covering so you can actually see what she looked like. Really young looking in her face.

[Tim Gray]

It's really amazing. And just to give, at some point, you've got to do a pilgrimage there because Ben was studied his doctorate in Rome, so he did his doctorate at the Angelicum and he would lead pilgrimages to all these places in Italy. And you're really a phenomenal pilgrim guide there. I've been with you on some trips and so you need to lead a form trip. I'm just going to make that suggestion right now. You need to lead a farm trip to Rome and Assisi and that would be fantastic. I'm sure people would love it. Once we get past Covid. So next in 2021, maybe in the fall, we'll get you to do a pilgrimage.

[Ben Akers]

That's great. Sign me up.

[Tim Gray]

Yeah, no, it'd be fantastic trips.

[Ben Akers]

The sisters there, just another word about. They have sing beautifully. So if you ever do get to go to a CC or to a poor car convent, they sing wonderfully. They sing all the different hours of the day and they can. You won't be able to see them because they're behind a grill, because they've separated themselves from the world. But you can hear their voices. And I used to work with college students over in Rome and Assisi and the college girls loved to bring the cookie. They would bring cookies to the girls and you could just hear the nuns giggling on the other side and the young American students talking to these women. I just thought, what a beautiful exchange between these two. And one of the examples from Claire's life of radical poverty is they had received her convent, had received one loaf of bread. And Clare told the sister who was in charge of the refectory, the food, she said, cut the loaf in half. Give half the loaf to the Franciscans down the road, right? So even what we have, we share. Cut that. Then the other half of the loaf cut into 50 pieces, because there were 50 sisters living in this convent.

[Tim Gray]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ben Akers]

And the sister said, mother Claire, this would be a miracle. This would require a miracle of biblical proportions for this bread to multiply. And Mother Claire said, trust me, do as I said. And so the sister starts breaking and cutting the loaves, and the miracle of loaves happens again at her hands. There's enough bread for all 50 sisters because of her radical trust in Mother's word and Mother's radical trust in the Lord.

[Tim Gray]

You know, I think that's one of the fruits of poverty, is that by embracing poverty and depending on God to take care of it. I know, you know, Mother Teresa of Calcutta does this, and the mission is, the charity sisters do this, and they just have this radical dependence on God that God's going to take care of what they need. And then God does, and he does again, and their faith just grows exponentially. And, you know, I think in the west, and we're so affluent, we store up, and we already think about, well, how I got to store up everything in abundance for my retirement. We store up and store up, and that's not bad, that's wise, it's prudent. But the idea of poverty really builds trust in God. I think the second thing that poverty does is poverty shows us that where our heart is, Jesus says, where your treasure is, there will your heart be. Also. In Matthew, chapter six. And if we store up earthly treasures, we have really, really nice cars, we have really, really nice clothes. We have really nice everything. That's where our heart becomes. We treasure these things. And by poverty, by giving to the poor, we're saying that I treasure God, I treasure His Word, I treasure his children. And that is really important to grow spiritually. And so Francis and Claire are reminders for us. We're not all called to live the poverty that Francis and Claire did, but we are supposed to have the poverty of detachment from material goods, that whatever goods we have, we are to be impoverished. And I always love the idea that if we can afford this level house or this level of car, we take a notch down or two to have that sense of poverty to take a little bit less. In that spirit of poverty that we're

[Ben Akers]

all called to, it's always a challenge to think of the things that we own in our life and realize, do I own them or do they own me? Do I really care if my phone, where's my phone? I lost my phone or whatever. We're most the things that are expensive and that we treasure and poverty is a wonderful challenge to that. There's a book by Father Thomas Dube, who has since passed on to his reward, but happy are you poor? I remember reading that book and it's for everybody. The evangelical call of poverty.

[Tim Gray]

I didn't know he wrote that book. Happy are the poor.

[Ben Akers]

Happy are the poor.

[Tim Gray]

I've read his other books and I love them. I have not read that one.

[Ben Akers]

Oh, no. It's a challenging book because. Because in the end of it he says poverty is for everybody. And he has examination at the end. He says, if you're a priest, this is what poverty might look like for you if you're a religious sister. And you think, well, they gave up everything. And he's just drilling down on things. And then for married couples, and that's where my wife and I read it one Lent. And it was just such a shake for us that as married couples we're also called to live poverty. And poverty is something that exists. It doesn't mean it's a virtue. But poverty is also a virtue. So we're talking about poverty as a virtue.

[Tim Gray]

Did your wife decide she wanted to give you up?

[Ben Akers]

Yes, that's right. She gave me up for life. Well, you know the three rings of marriage, right? The engagement ring, the wedding ring and the suffering.

[Tim Gray]

Suffering, yes, indeed. You know, I think that this call to poverty, though it's something that we all can embrace to a greater or lesser degree. And I think as we become more attached to Christ, we feel the freedom to be detached from material goods more and more. And I just think of a couple friends I know in my life. I know one guy who loved watches and he loves watches and he takes great pride in watches. And so he doesn't wear a watch to give that up. You know, he'll wear other nice clothes, but he gives up the watch as a sacrifice, right? And then I knew somebody who was an investment banker and he had an extraordinarily nice car and it was important for him to have, you know, custom made suits A very nice car. Because if you drove up in a beater or in a Toyota, you know, people would be like, I'm not going to invest with you. You're not a very good investor. You're broke. You're not making much money. So he had to do that. But what he would give up is he lived to poverty in other ways. There were hidden ways. So he gave up a poverty of hot showers. He would not have hot water for his showers. That was part of the poverty he embraced and other little things that people wouldn't notice. And you would think, oh, this guy's living the high life. And yes, he had an extraordinarily nice car, extraordinarily nice suits, but he also made other sacrifices. And that's the point. We don't have to. If we're called to be in the world, you know, some of us are called. We have to dress a certain way. And St. Thomas More is a good example of that. He had to wear, as the Chancellor of England, he had the most important position after the king. He had to wear very nice robes and clothing that was important for his office. And yet he wore a hair shirt underneath. Right. And he did other things. And so he lived that spirit of poverty that made him detached. So that when he had to give up to be obedient to God, he had to give up his mansion and estate. He was willing to do that.

[Ben Akers]

It wasn't hard, and gave up his head.

[Tim Gray]

Eventually, he had to give up his head. That was the last thing to be detached, that he was detached from.

[Ben Akers]

And I'd say that you're right, Tim, that this. The spiritual masters tell us that to give up little things to make every little sacrifices that people don't ever see, that's not putting salt on the food at a meal, that you just want to add that salt, or giving up something, ordering your second favorite thing at the restaurant, that these are little things that we can do to make sacrifices, to express poverty, say, I'm not attached to these things. I rely on you, Lord, for what you want to give me. And then the other thing that I think that Clare can teach us with regards to renewal in the church and renewal in our lives, is her devotion to the Eucharist. There's a famous scene you often see Clare holding a monstrance, holding one of those. This image holds the host inside of it. It means to show the host, probably seen one at your church.

[Tim Gray]

We show that in, I think, episode one of Presence, we show several saints, and we show young Clare holding up the monstrance when the Assisi was being sacked and when the convent was in danger to be sacked and pillaged, she holds up the Blessed Sacrament and the people disband. The army just can't face it.

[Ben Akers]

That's right. The Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick ii, his Saracen army is attacking Assisi. And she is sick and she's bedridden, and she has the Blessed Sacrament brought to the doors of the convent, and she prostrates herself in front of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, says, lord, save your daughters, save your children. And she hears a voice say, you will not be harmed. And oftentimes you'll see it as light that the army turns away. And Assisi and the convent are spared because of her devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. Her devotion to the Blessed Sacrament was also shown by. When she was bedridden, she was bedridden with an illness for 27 years. And so she would make corporals the little square cloth that you would have for Mass, and she sent those to all the parishes that were surrounding in Assisi and surrounding area. Her devotion to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, her devotion to the Blessed Sacrament was also seen in. She couldn't attend Mass, so she was stuck in her bed and she wasn't able to make it down to the chapel on a regular basis. And so this was such a loss to her of poverty in a lot of ways to her, that this was taken away from her that she heard Mass and even, some say, saw it projected on the wall. So this is why Pope Pius XII made her the patron saint of television, because she saw the Mass projected on

[Tim Gray]

the wall, which is amazing. And I think of, you know, I think of Mother Angelica, you know, who is a poor Claire who starts a TV station and a radio network, right? And so it's part of the miracle, I think, of Mother Angelica. And I remember one of the stories of Mother Angelica. She was in a helicopter looking for a place to put a satellite dish for their shortwave radio. And they were going over these hills, and she pointed the helicopter guy and she said, let's go down there to that hills. And she saw the hills, and she saw these large hills, and she said, what county is that in? And they said, claire County. She goes, that's where we're going to put it. And there was an expert that she had brought to consult, and he said, oh, Mother, that would be the worst place to set up a shortwave radio dish. It will not go beyond those hills. It will have a terrible signal, and it won't go Very far. And she said, nope, that's where we're going to put it. And they put it there. And the signal was so strong, it was blowing out shortwave radios in Africa. Like, she was asked to turn down the signal because it was so powerful from what happened right there. Amazing. That's St. Clair.

[Ben Akers]

You hear these stories of saintly people like Mother Angelica and saints like St. Clair, and you can't help but be edified and. Or dumbfounded, and your jaw drops. And they say, well, that's for them. But the Lord has these things in mind for us. The Lord wants to do great things with us. It's just we hold on to ourselves. Why don't we experience these great miracles that St. Clair, the mother Angelica, these kinds of stories. Teresa Bavila gives us an insight into it. She says, because we hold on to ourselves, this is why we're made holy in degrees, is because we only give ourselves in degrees to our Lord and St. Clair, St. Francis, these wonderful saints are encouragements and exhortations to us to give it all to the Lord, and he will never be outdone in generosity.

[Tim Gray]

That's so inspiring, Ben. You know, this idea that we can't hold back, we can't give parts. We have to give our whole heart. And that's really the witness of St. Francis of Assisi, and that's really the witness of St. Clair. Here's this young teenage girl who has incredible wealth. She could choose her suitor. Anybody, any young boy in Assisi wants to marry into that wealth. And she was an attractive young woman, and she gives it all to Christ. Doesn't give 50%, doesn't give 10%. She gives 100%. And I think that's exactly the inspiration we need. And you're right, you know, God's hand is not shortened. His grace is just as available now as ever. And we see that, you know, the miracles that happen with St. Clair, with the Blessed Sacrament, and the miracles that happen with Mother Angelica, these miracles are available if we but call upon the name of God with great trust and love and devotion. And I think the other lesson I take away from Clara today is poverty. It's not that possessions are bad. It's that trust in God is beautiful. And it's that our treasure in heaven is better than all the treasures that will we give up here. Whatever we give up here, we'll receive a hundredfold in heaven for all eternity with Christ. And, you know, I think to give up possessions here is a great act of faith. It's really trusting in our Father, his providential care for us, his love for us. And it's a great exercise. And so on this feast of St. Clair, think about how can you become more detached? What can you give up? How can you have that spirit of detachment? Little sacrifices like Ben mentioned of maybe giving up salt, maybe giving up, you know, having. Choosing a second thing, you know, in terms of food choices, whatever that is. Make little sacrifices. This is part of the Christian discipleship because basically our home is in heaven and our hearts need to be there more and more. I hope this has been edifying for you and inspiring. I hope you can pray to St Clare today that you may be more detached. May the Lord bless and keep you. God bless.

[Narrator]

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