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St. Matthias
00:22:26
'Lord, you know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside,' ... And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias." -- Acts 1:24-26 Who was the man who took Judas's place and what can he teach us today? Join Dr. Michael Barber and Dr. Elizabeth Klein to find out.
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Podcast Host/Producer
You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Hello and welcome to Catholic Saints, the podcast about the lives of the saints and their legacy for the church and for us. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Klein, and I'm joined today by Dr. Michael Barber to talk about St. Matthias. Welcome to the show, Dr. Barber.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Thanks for having me here, Dr. Klein.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
I'm having a lot of fun talking to Dr. Barber about biblical saints. He is one of our resident biblical scholars. So I wanted to ask you, what are you teaching this term? I know you just finished.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Yeah, we're teaching this term. We're finishing up St. Paul. So wonderful class, where we get to go through all of Paul's letters and think about the way Paul solves pastoral problems by reflecting on the mystery of Christ in light of the Scriptures of Israel.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
That's great. I hadn't even thought about that until you just mentioned it. But, yes, it is true that when Paul is trying to solve mundane problems, he goes right to the sublime, doesn't he?
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Dr. Michael Barber
It's really funny. Yeah. He doesn't have mercy on these poor gentile believers who don't know anything about the Scriptures. Throws them right into. All right, well, let me tell you, there are two women, and they represent two covenants. And there's Hagar and there's, you know, Sarah. And you're like, oh, okay, problems in
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
your marriage, Christ in the church.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Exactly.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
All right, well, we're here to talk about St. Matthias. We were joking before we started that St. Matthias had some easy boots to fill in replacing Judas. But why don't you get us started? Where does St Matthias mention in Scripture and sort of what. What thoughts do you have to have about those. Those passages?
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Dr. Michael Barber
Yeah. So we find Matthias introduced to us in the Book of Acts, which is, of course, presented to us as the sequel of the Gospel of Luke. And there in the Acts of the Apostles, we read the story about how Peter stood up and said to those who were the earliest believers, there are about 120 of them, brothers and sisters, the Scriptures had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand through David. And then he says what? He spoke about Judas, who was a guide for those who arrested Jesus. And Peter points out that Judas had been numbered among us among the 12 and was allotted a share in this ministry. And then Luke gives us a little aside, and he says, now this man, Judas acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness. And falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all of his bowels gushed out. And this became known to the residents of Jerusalem. And so people knew about how Judas had betrayed Jesus and how he had died. And then Peter says, it is written in the Psalms, and then he quotes from a couple of Psalms. The second one he quotes is Psalm 109 in the Septuagint, says, let another take his position of overseer. Or the Greek word that's translated overseer could also be translated bishop, right? So let another take this office, this role. The King James Version says bishopric, which is kind of funny, but it's understood that the apostles have been given an office, a special role. So somebody else needs to take Judas's place. So just to pause here, here we have an amazing witness of apostolic succession I.e. that when one apostle dies, somebody else is to take their place. And so Peter says, so one of the men who've accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us, one of these men must become a witness with us to his resurrection. And so the disciples put forward two men. One man named Joseph, who is also called Barsabbas and who's known as Justus, and another man who's known as Matthias. And how do they decide which one is going to be the next apostle?
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
They play a game.
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Dr. Michael Barber
It's really amazing, right? It says they cast lots. Now, we might remember that at the foot of the cross, the, the, the. The soldiers are casting lots, and it's like a, you know, like a gambling game almost, right? And by the way, Saint Matthias becomes known in the tradition as patron saint of gamblers, right?
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
But although that's kind of ironic because it's like, is it good luck to get chosen as a bishop? Is that anything?
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Dr. Michael Barber
Well, so what ends up happening is they cast lots to determine who will be the successor to Judas. Now, a lot of people see this and they just think of it as kind of a gambling game because that's what the soldiers do at the foot of the cross. But we gotta remember this is more than just gambling. This isn't like, you know, holy craps, you know, this is actually something much more significant because at the beginning of the Gospel of Luke, we discover that Zechariah was chosen to serve as priest in the temple because it fell to him by lot. Luke explicitly tells us this was the custom of the priesthood. And in. If we go back and look at the Old Testament, look at the chronicler for Example, we see that priestly duties were chosen by casting lots. So casting lots could be a gambling game for pagans, but in Israelite culture, casting lots was a priestly sacred ritual that determined sacerdotal duties, priestly duties.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
And is this related? So, and recall for the listeners that the beginning of Acts, right, Luke wrote Acts as well. So the first chapter of Acts is going to call back the first chapter of Luke written by the same author. And so we're being invited to draw this parallel. But is this also related to what it says in the letter to the Hebrews, that no one takes on the priesthood himself, but rather is chosen by God? Is this sort of a ritual that's seen as really inviting sort of God's opinion on who ought to take on the honor?
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Dr. Michael Barber
So I think this is a priestly passage, and I've argued that a book that I wrote called the Historical Jesus in the Temple, and what we see here in the story is priestly imagery, right? The way you're. You're chosen is through these lots. And as you mentioned, Luke and Acts are essentially to be received as one work, because Acts is the sequel to Luke. And in many ways, Acts parallels what we see in the Gospel of Luke. We can't talk about all the parallels here, but for example, right at the beginning of the Gospel of Luke, we read about how the Holy Spirit comes down upon Mary just as the Holy Spirit comes down on the apostles at Pentecost. So there are all these parallels between Luke and Acts. This can't be a coincidence, right? So the fact that Luke's Gospel begins with priestly lot casting and then Acts begins with lot casting seems deliberate. And in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus does tell the 12 that. That they will judge the 12 tribes. And if you go back and look at Jewish sources, all the sources that we have indicate that the judges of the tribes in the future age, in the Messianic age, would be priests. So we understand that when Jesus tells the 12 that they're going to have the task of judging Israel, he's giving them a priestly task. So this story really highlights the priestly role of the apostles. The apostles aren't just missionaries, they aren't just teachers, but they're priestly.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Right? And of course, it's understood in the Old Covenant, right? When one dies, another has to take his place, especially as it regards the high priest.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Sure, that's true. We're not using high priestly imagery here, though, because this is just the right that's used for determining priestly duties writ Large in the temple. Right. But still, it's significant that Matthias is chosen by lot. So Matthias is chosen, and it's significant that he's chosen among all of the disciples, because here he's one of the men that has been following Jesus since the time of the baptism of John.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Yeah, that's a really interesting detail that you and I had not noticed reading that passage before, that to be a successor of the apostles, you have to have walked with Jesus through his whole career and then be a witness of the resurrection. That says a lot about sort of Matthias's character, because not a lot of people made it all the way through the speech in John 6 and then through the Passion and came out the other side sort of at Jesus's side. That says a lot about him. But it also seems to me to sort of indicate the kind of person who is the disciple of Christ and who is to be chosen as his successor. Now, it's one who has been with him throughout his ministry and has been through his passion and has borne witness to his resurrection. That's sort of an interesting priestly mandate, if you will.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Yeah. So Matthias has to be able to say that this man who was baptized, this man who healed the sick, this man who spoke these words about the kingdom, this man has been raised from the dead. It's not a different man. The person who was raised from the dead is this Jesus who we witnessed do these things. So the resurrection is a confirmation of Jesus, public ministry. Right. So we want to be very clear about who it is who was raised from the dead. It is this man, Jesus.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
And also the sort of apostolic mandate. Because often we're, you know, thinking about Protestants and we're worried about defending the priesthood and that these men were really priests. But it's interesting for our reflection to note that this was essential for Matthias's ability to preach the gospel.
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Dr. Michael Barber
That's right.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
And that those 12, that especially in that apostolic period, what was going to be essential to the Christian faith was the eyewitness testimony of people who had been with Jesus, heard his words and seen him risen from the dead. And that this is also essential to both disciples and priests. Now it's the one who can bear witness to Christ. Christ has taught me Christ, I have died with Christ. I have seen him risen. And that, that's. That proclamation of the gospel is actually a first and foremost sort of job of one who is a priest.
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Dr. Michael Barber
That's right. And so the role of being a priest is to be what? A witness. And let's just remember that the word there for witness is martyr. Right? And so there are traditions that Matthias went out among the cannibals and was martyred, although these have very little historical reliability. We don't really know where they come from. But one thing that is more believable is Hippolytus and Eusebius go on to tell us a little bit more about Matthias. In the story in Acts, he has to be among those who were with Jesus from the beginning. And so Hippolytus after the story in Acts, Matthias drops out in the narrative. We don't get anything more about Matthias in the book of Acts. But one thing that Hippolytus and Eusebius, later writers tell us, Hippolytus in the second century, Eusebius in the fourth, fifth century. Fourth century. Yeah. So he says that they both say that Matthias was. Was among the 70. So if you remember in the Gospel of Luke, chapter 10, not only are there 12 appointed, but then there are 70 others who are appointed to go out and proclaim the kingdom, to work miracles. And it's understood that Matthias was among that group, okay. Who practiced the preaching of the kingdom even before the resurrection. So why is it that it has to be one of these men? Well, this is one of the men who was trained by Jesus himself, even during his public ministry, to be a witness for Jesus even before Jesus died on the cross. You have the apostles and the disciples, the 70 disciples going out and might be worth mentioning here why these 70 are so significant. Because in the Pentateuch, we have this great story of the Lord having Moses appoint 70 for the people of Israel, and the Spirit comes down upon them to empower them.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
And there's. Yeah, and the 70 also in that connection, has a priestly connection because you have at the sort of patterned worship on Sinai. Right. Sinai sets the pattern for Israel's cult and for the priestly duties of Israel. You have the 12 tribes that sacrifice at the bottom of the mountain. You have the 70 who go halfway up the mountain and they eat in the Lord's presence, right. Which is sort of represented in the show, Read the bread of the presence in the temple. And then you have Moses and his sort of chosen ones of Aaron and his sons who are sort of elevated above them. And of course, then Moses is the only one who goes to the top of the mountain and mediates in God's presence.
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Dr. Michael Barber
And that 70 becomes really significant in Jewish tradition. So the 70 go up the mountain at Sinai, and then you have 70 here who are appointed to help Israel judge the people or how Moses rather judged the people. And one of the things that becomes significant then is the Sanhedrin is understood to be a group of 70. Right. And so the fact that Matthias is One of the 70 would seem to suggest that he is among the elders, the presbyteroi. Right. He's among that group of spirit enabled leaders of the early church.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
So he's one of the 70 who gets chosen to be a successor of one of the 12. Anyway. So obviously in Catholic tradition we would then they very early on, even from first Clement, which is written in the first century, identify sort of the high priest, the priests and the Levites as reflecting what we would call bishops, priests and deacons. The threefold, the three fold.
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Dr. Michael Barber
The high priest is like the bishop.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Yeah.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Right. And then you have the priests are like the presbytery.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Yeah.
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Dr. Michael Barber
And then the deacons are like the Levites who were assistants in the, in the temple.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Right. So these divisions are not super clear all the way through the Old Testament, but you can see very clearly that early on Christians adopted this threefold division. And you can see it, see it here in Acts. So this is all extremely fascinating. Dr. Barber knows that I'm especially interested in sort of the character of the priesthood through the Old Testament, how it's taken on both in the New Testament and then in the early church and the types that are associated with that. But how would we sort of take this maybe into our daily life as we either reflect on the role of priests in our lives or the role of the Matthias plays as this special witness to Christ and his disciple. How we might sort of take it to prayer or apply it to, to our life today.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Yeah. One thing that I'd just like to reflect on is the way that Jesus indicates that the 12 are those who have left everything. They've left their lands, they've left their homes, they've left everything to follow him. And the tradition understands that that is also true of Matthias. There is a tradition that's associated with Clement of Alexandria that links Matthias to a saying that we have to renounce the pleasures of the flesh. And so because of that there are traditions that he's the patron saint of alcoholics people. He's also understood to be the patron saint of wealthy people, but not in the sense of wealthy people who use their means for greed, but those who give up their wealth, that donate their wealth, that, that practice almsgiving. In fact, Clement of Alexandria actually says that Matthias was Zacchaeus, the tax collector. So that's a cool tradition, but that seems Very. That seems unlikely because he had to be among the people who followed Jesus from John the Baptist. So that doesn't seem to work out.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
Yeah. Unless Zacchaeus had a preview or something.
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Dr. Michael Barber
Yeah.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
This is, this is an interesting point to make, I think, both reflecting on the radical call to the Christian life, both for those who choose a priesthood and for the everyday disciple. Because I think it's easy for us to think, well, like, if Jesus himself came and asked me to give up everything, like, then maybe I could do it, but. And I can't really hear the voice of the Lord now. And, you know, I go to Mass and I don't hear anything that's relevant to me. But you. But Matthias isn't asked by Jesus himself to take on this role. He is asked by Peter. That's right, by the representative of the Church. And Peter, after all, like, isn't always the rock star when it comes to following Jesus. You know, he's an apostate who gets, who gets called back into this special authority. And I think the, the voice of the church that asks us to do things may not always be easy. It may not always be clear. It may not always be clear it's coming from God. And yet he heroically steps into this role as a successor to the apostles, as a successor of Judas. Right. So I joked that he had easy shoes to follow, easy shoes to fill. But. But in a sense, that's also kind of a ominous role to step into. Right?
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Dr. Michael Barber
Yes.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
One of Jesus's disciples failed spectacularly. Would you take over for.
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Dr. Michael Barber
For him? I do. Like in the Book of Acts, though, when Peter explains that they have to choose someone, he prays. And what does he say? Lord, you know, everyone's heart, show us which one of these two you have chosen. And so the fact that Matthias is chosen shows us that the Lord knows Matthias heart. So maybe one thing to reflect on is if we want the Lord to be able to use us, if we want the Lord to choose us to do his work, then we need to examine our heart. And we need to ask the Lord to make sure that our hearts are focused solely on him, because it's that which causes the Lord to choose Matthias. And you know, when he says only the Lord will, the Lord will show us which one he's picked because he's seen the heart we know from the Scriptures. Only the Lord sees the heart of man, and we don't even know our own hearts. Jeremiah says, right, so the Lord knows the heart of Matthias. And even if this is an ominous position, to be in. He knows that Matthias is up to the task. So whatever position the Lord calls us to, whatever vocation the Lord calls us to, he calls us to that because he knows our hearts. He knows what is in our hearts. And so at different points in our life, we might think, well, you know, maybe I should have been called to be a priest, or maybe. Maybe I should have been called to be religious, or maybe I should have. The Lord knows your heart better than you know, and he's put you in this specific place in your life because he knows your heart and he knows that you're made for this.
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Dr. Elizabeth Klein
And the two other thoughts that occur to me from your reflection is that God also knows the time in which he will call you and the position to which he will call you. Because it could be easy to be something like, I've been with Jesus from the beginning. I was one of the 70. I've been with him, and he didn't choose me as one of the 12. Or to think, why did he choose, you know, James, Peter and John to go up the Mount of Transfiguration? I've been here the whole time. And so that it's the Lord's timing and the Lord's will, who he appoints for his task. Because as it turned out, Judas was a bad pick, you know, but it's the Lord's will to choose. And there's all kinds of ways we could reflect on why it was a wise decision to have one of the disciples betray Jesus for all kinds of reasons. But that's not evident to someone like Matthias. And so we often might see other people being more successful in their ministry or advanced in their ministry, people who turn out to be bad people who were chosen for their ministries. And so we have to. We have to wait for the Lord's time. Trust in the Lord's providence, trust in what he has revealed and what he has chosen. I think that's a really beautiful thing to reflect on with Saint Matthias. And then also reflecting on sort of that. That radical call to stay faithful in terms of Matthias sort of dropping out of the story after being. Being appointed to this, we know a lot about other people and maybe not him. And this can often happen where we have ups and downs in the spiritual life. We experience a really clear call from the lord, and then 10 years later think, did you really call me this? This seems pretty hard. And, and that's true of so many saints, including Matthias. So I really appreciate this conversation about Matthias, sort of what he can teach us sort of historically and then how to bring that sort of into our into our everyday lives. So thanks Dr. Barber, and we'll sort of end by asking for St. Matthias's intercession. St. Matthias, pray for us.
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Podcast Host/Producer
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