Sts. Joachim and Anne

Summary

Catholic Saints Podcast: Sts. Joachim and Anne

Augustine Institute – July 26, 2026
Host: Mary McGeehan
Guest: Dr. Carl Venustrom (Professor, Augustine Institute)
Episode Focus: The lives, traditions, and significance of Saints Joachim and Anne, the parents of the Blessed Virgin Mary and grandparents of Jesus.

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the story, legacy, and theological significance of Sts. Joachim and Anne. Drawing on both Church tradition and early Christian documents, Dr. Carl Venustrom and host Mary McGeehan discuss what Catholics know (and don’t know) about these saints, how their story unfolds outside of Scripture, and what lessons and inspirations their lives hold for today.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Origins and Sources: Who Were Sts. Joachim and Anne?

Timestamps: 02:07 – 05:27

• Not mentioned in the New Testament:
  Sts. Joachim and Anne do not appear in the canonical Gospel narratives.

  “If you've read the New Testament, you'll know that we don't know about them from the New Testament.” — Dr. Carl Venustrom (02:16)

• Primary source:
  The Protoevangelium of James (2nd century, ascribed to St. James the cousin of Jesus) is the earliest and fullest source about their lives.

• Biographical sketch:
  Long-married without children, their story mirrors Old Testament narratives, especially Hannah (mother of Samuel).

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2. The Infertility and Divine Promise

Timestamps: 05:28 – 06:24

• Joachim’s temple sacrifice and distress:
  Feeling despair over childlessness, Joachim goes into the wilderness to fast and pray for 40 days, while Anne prays at home.

• Ann’s name parallels:
  Anne is a transliteration of Hannah, underlining OT echoes and typologies.

• Divine response:
  After their prayers, Anne becomes pregnant with Mary, whom they dedicate and present to God.

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3. The Presentation of Mary and Unusual Traditions

Timestamps: 06:24 – 07:47

• Presentation at the temple:
  The tradition holds that at age three, Mary is brought to live in the temple—an unprecedented honor for a Jewish girl—paralleling Samuel’s dedication.

• Significance:

  “Her parents were offering her as a sacrifice which Joachim had not been able to offer before — his sacrifice was refused. So then an ultimate kind of sacrifice is offered by both Joachim and Anne in the person of Mary.” — Dr. Venustrom (07:23)

• Parallels in Christian art and typology:
  Scenes of Joachim and Anne’s reunion after Annunciation are often depicted, echoing visitation scenes of Mary and Elizabeth.

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4. Development of Tradition and Theological Questions

Timestamps: 09:46 – 12:59

• Authority and reception of the Protoevangelium:
  The document is early but not canonical—sometimes accepted, sometimes criticized (even by a pope in the fifth century).

• Role in Catholic tradition:
  Its stories are corroborated or validated by the Church’s liturgical feasts:

  • Immaculate Conception (Dec 8)
  • Nativity of Mary (Sep 8)
  • Presentation of Mary (Nov 21)

  “We don't look at the text by itself. We don't look at any sort of datum in the tradition in a kind of vacuum… we have major Marian feasts in our calendar that ultimately derive from this text.” — Dr. Venustrom (11:12)

5. Consistency with Sacred Tradition

Timestamps: 13:00 – 14:01

• Balancing tradition and scrutiny:
  The Church doesn’t demand belief in every detail of these accounts, but the traditions are read “with piety and trust,” seen in light of liturgical prayer and broader tradition.

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6. Artistic Depictions and Symbolism

Timestamps: 14:01 – 16:49

• Artistic tradition:
  Giotto’s cycle (early Italian Renaissance) famously depicts the life of Joachim and Anne, including their meeting at the Golden Gate—the “kiss” mirrors the Visitation scene.

• Theological symbolism:
  Parallels woven between women and children in Old Testament (Hannah/Samuel) and Mary/Jesus, culminating in the typology of promises, miraculous births, and dedication to God.

  “It rhymes.” — Mary McGeehan (15:41)

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7. Legacy and Patronage

Timestamps: 17:08 – 19:04

• Joachim and Anne as patrons:

  • Grandparents
  • Anne: unmarried women, housewives, women in labor, mothers, childless couples

• Their example of sacrifice:
  After decades yearning for a child, they dedicate Mary to God—a lesson in letting go and participating in a larger story of salvation.

  “Once they are able to have a child…they immediately give it up. So, if you think of only within sort of their own story, like the arc is toward the final accomplishment of this goal or this wish—and it being fulfilled to have this child. But it’s part of this much larger story…useful to keep in mind.” — Dr. Venustrom (18:00)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On apocryphal tradition:

  “It's probably written in the second century, so it's still very early, but the ascription to James is kind of loose.” — Dr. Venustrom (03:28)

• On faith and offering:

  “They both sort of offered to God that if they're able to have a child, that they will offer this child in service of God, just like Hannah promises to offer her child.” — Dr. Venustrom (04:52)

• On Marian doctrine:

  “This is the doctrine that Mary was conceived without original sin…If you want to look for this doctrine in sort of seed form, you can find [it] in the Protoevangelium of James.” — Dr. Venustrom (11:53)

• On typologies:

  “Mary’s Magnificat shares a lot in common with the song of Hannah after the birth of—or preceding the birth of Samuel.” — Dr. Venustrom (15:42)

• On self-offering:

  “They immediately give [Mary] up. So if you think of only within sort of their own story…the small story is the small story and the big story is a big story…useful to keep in mind.” — Dr. Venustrom (18:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro and episode setup: 01:32 – 02:07
• Origin in Christian tradition: 02:07 – 05:27
• Infertility, promise, and Mary’s birth: 05:28 – 06:24
• Presentation of Mary and parallels: 06:24 – 07:47
• Faith, tradition, and theology: 09:46 – 12:59
• Liturgical feasts and Marian doctrines: 11:14 – 12:59
• Artistic depictions: 14:01 – 16:49
• Patronage and legacy: 17:08 – 19:04
• Closing reflections: 19:04 – 19:43

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Concluding Reflection

Joachim and Anne, though not named in Scripture, occupy a special place in Catholic devotion and tradition, symbolizing hope, trustfulness, and the willingness to offer everything—even that which is most precious—for a higher purpose. Their story is one of faith’s reward, the intertwining of the ordinary and the miraculous, and the affirmation that personal sacrifice is often part of a much greater narrative in God’s plan.

Saints Joachim and Anne, pray for us!

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm James Prothero, associate Professor at the Augustine Institute Graduate School of Theology. We hope you've enjoyed listening to and learning from our professors on this and all our podcasts. The Augustine Institute Graduate School exists to make Christ and his church better known and loved through the exercise of academic study. With St. Augustine as our guide, we focus on the narrative of Scripture and the evangelization of the culture. Faculty and students alike immerse themselves in the rich sources of the Catholic faith, drawing upon sacred Scripture, the catechism of the Catholic Church, and the writings of the fathers and doctors of the church. We have 550 students and over a thousand alumni serving the church in parishes, dioceses, schools, the academy apostolates, the domestic church, and even the secular world. With master's degrees in theology, pastoral Theology, Catholic education, and Biblical Studies, our programs are for anyone looking to go deeper in their faith. Are you interested in studying theology with the professors of this podcast? Earn your degree online or on campus in St. Louis, Missouri. Apply now for the coming term of study. Learn more at augustine. Edu.

[B]

You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith.

[C]

Hi. Welcome to Catholic Saints. My name is Mary McGeehan, and I am joined with Dr. Carl Venustrom, professor here at the Gus Institute. Thanks for joining.

[D]

Very glad to be here.

[C]

We are diving into another episode of Catholic Saints, where we're looking at the saints for inspiration for our lives, looking to them for wisdom and inspiration, vision for holiness. Today. So today we're going to talk about Saints Joachim and Anne. Their feast day is on July 26. What can you tell us about some biographical sketch of who these saints are? What we know about them?

[D]

Yeah, so these are the grandparents of Jesus. So the parents of Mary.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[D]

The Blessed Virgin. And so we know about them. If you've read the New Testament, you'll know that we don't know about them from the New Testament. New Testament saints, Jean, and do not appear in the gospel narratives, but their sort of first appearance in the tradition of the church is in a document called the Proto Evangelium of James. So this is supposed to have been written by James, the cousin of Jesus, and it describes their. Their marriage and the. The circumstances surrounding the birth of Mary as. As well as it's a kind of commentary also on the birth of Jesus and how it happens. So it sort of expands certain points where the gospels are silent. Okay, good.

[C]

This isn't the Apostle James, though, or is It. The person who wrote this.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. That's who it's traditionally assigned to. Ascribed to. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. So it is an interesting question because it's probably written in the second century, so it's still very early. But the ascription to James is kind of loose, maybe. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And you think within it is where we get the tradition and the source of where we know the most about the parents of Blessed Virgin Mary.

[D]

That's right. Yeah. And so the basic story surrounding Joachim and Anne is familiar from the Old Testament in a lot of ways. And actually, Anne is a transliteration of a sort of the name Hannah from the Old Testament. Obviously, Hannah is the mother of Samuel. This is an interesting point we can kind of reflect on as we work through this story. But like a lot of Old Testament stories, the story of Joachim and Ann is one of the inability to produce a child. So there's an infertility. That's this problem in their family. And at one point. At one point, Joachim, who's a rather wealthy man, is going to offer a particular sacrifice in the temple and is told that he. He's like the only man in Israel who doesn't have a son. And so this causes him great distress, and he goes out into the wilderness and fasts for 40 days. At the same time, Anne is also praying for a child. I think their marriage was 20 years without any children. And so they both sort of offered to God that if they're able to have a child, that they will offer this child in service of God, just like Hannah promises to offer her child, who ends up being Samuel, to the service of God.

[C]

Interesting.

[D]

Yeah. And so then they come back together and there's this realization of their promise to God and their hope and their request. So Anne becomes pregnant and gives birth to Mary. And so then when Mary turns three, they actually present her in the temple. So she's offered to live in the temple, and so she's accompanied by angels all the time and grows in wisdom.

[C]

Was it? I know. We know in the life of Jesus, Joseph and Mary presented Jesus. The presentation in the temple. Is that customary, you know, even for the female babies in Jewish tradition? Or was it in particular within the vocation of Ann and Joachim? It was unique that they presented their child, particularly a young girl.

[D]

A girl, yeah. Yeah. This is unique. And especially the idea of her as a resident in the temple would have been incredibly unusual, but it mirrors in many ways the story of Samuel. Yeah. And there are a lot of interesting Parallels between the life of the child Mary and the life of the child Jesus, including or at least in the sort of infancy narrative. So this scene when Joachim and Ann meet after their prayers to God is often depicted in the sort of artistic tradition of the church in the same way that the visitation when Mary and her cousin Elizabeth meet. So these are parallel events. Like they're not perfectly parallel. Right. But it's kind of more interesting that they're not perfectly parallel. And then obviously the presentation of Mary in the temple, her parents sort of offering her as a sacrifice which Joachim had not been able to offer before his sacrifice was refused. So then an ultimate kind of sacrifice is offered by both Joachim and Anne in the person of Mary. Okay, yeah.

[C]

Okay, interesting. And I'm just curious, is it tradition that Mary grew up in the temple?

[D]

Yeah, so she lived there until she was 12. That's how the story goes. Yeah. And then at that point in time, because of temple purity laws, it wasn't possible for her to stay in the temple, so she left. And then she was obviously a very special person. And so she needed to be married, as was customary. But this is also where we kind of get the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary. So her marriage was not, according to this story, ever intended to be a marriage which produced more children or which involves sexual acts. But so she was given by lot to Joseph, who is an elderly man whose wife had died and who had children. So there's sort of different traditions about Joseph, but this is the one that's him it down in this, in this text.

[C]

Fascinating. It's also neat how within this tradition, once again, how intentionally God the Father, even divinely provided so specifically for Jesus's mom and for his grandparents. Just like a very pure and set apart story, you know, that's very unique. Just how intentional God, God's handwriting is in the lineage of Jesus.

[D]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. It in that way really beautifully reflects the whole sort of heritage that leads to Jesus that we get in the Gospel of Matthew in the genealogies. Those genealogies are pretty straightforward in Matthew, but contained are all these wild stories with these miraculous births and twists and turns and, and unexpected happenings that lead ultimately to Christ.

[C]

To Christ. Right. Another question I have is since the tradition, you know, it's not from scripture, how as Catholics do we take this source of information for truth or, you know, validity or not? Like how do you categorize this document? And how, as Catholics do we receive this type of tradition?

[D]

Yeah, this is a good question. And there are, you know, just like with Joachim and Anne, the story itself has sort of twists and turns in the tradition. So. Yeah, in the fifth century, there's even a pope in Rome who speaks, like, very negatively about this text and says people should reject it.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

But it was received very enthusiastically by others. And so it's a little difficult. Maybe if you just, like, look at the text itself and maybe sort of, like, look at the historical scholarship that's been applied to it, it's like, okay, so it comes a little later. And obviously it's not scripture. It was never accepted as Scripture itself by. By anyone. But I think we can. We. We don't look at the text by itself. We don't look at. At any sort of, like, datum in the tradition in a kind of vacuum. And so one way to look at this text would be through, like, the Church's liturgical tradition.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

And so we have major Marian feasts in our calendar that ultimately derive from this text. I mean, these feasts derive from sort of the truth of sort of mystery, which is contained in Mary. But the sort of first instance of these teachings comes in this text. So we have the feast of the immaculate conception on December 8, often, or at least sometimes confused for the conception of Jesus. Right. The Immaculate Conception, rather refers to the birth of Mary.

[C]

Always a good Catholic trivia.

[D]

Yeah, always a good. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And so this is the doctrine that Mary was conceived without original sin, which was contested, but if you want to look at. If you want to look for this doctrine in sort of, like, seed form, you can find in the proto evangelium of James, the Nativity of Mary on September 8th. Those go together. December 8th, September 8th. This is least the first sort of textual indication of that. And then the presentation of Mary on September 21st. September 21st. I mean, sorry, November 21st would also have its origin in this text. And so I think, like, with that kind of in mind, if we're sort of taught the truths of the faith by the Church calendar and by these feasts, that we can have a kind of optimism and confidence in this text itself. It's not like itself, a sort of binding document.

[C]

Right.

[D]

But given those factors, I think, like, it's reasonable to.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

To read it with piety and trust, I guess.

[C]

Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And in unity with sacred tradition, it's one piece that kind of corroborates the tradition of the Church and how they have honored Mary and her parents.

[D]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And we want to, like, avoid just reading it, but just reading it by itself, because then it gets kind of distorted. Like some scholars would say, like, oh, the emphasis on virginity shows that it's from these, like, sort of gnostic or, like, heterodox groups that were outside of the church. And it's like. Well, I guess, like, if you just look at it, like, by itself, without. Without any other context, like, yeah, it starts to look, like, kind of bizarre. But I think within the. Yeah, the breadth of tradition, this is a. A very fruitful.

[C]

Sure. You also mentioned they're often depicted in sacred or in art. Are there particular pieces or artists that you would recommend I go look up? And is there anything consistent in the art that we have come to assign as true and likely about Ann and Joachim?

[D]

Yeah, so there's the scene when they meet at the Golden Gate in Jerusalem. I think this is in the west side of Jerusalem of the old walls. And this is depicted by an artist named Giotto, who's a medieval artist. And he did a whole cycle of this kind of life of Mary. And the actual tradition itself, or at least the actual text itself, was lost in the west for a long time and was sort of, like, brought back in the medieval period. And so then the artistic depict of all these events sort of blossom. So he has that. He has the visitation, he has the. I'm sorry, he has the presentation and then the Nativity. And these all have interesting sort of artistic parallels to then his depictions of, like, the nativity of Christ or the presentation of Christ in the temple. And so one interesting thing with the meeting at the Golden Gate is that there's this kiss between them, which parallels like the greeting of Mary and Elizabeth.

[C]

That's sweet.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. And kind of like I said before, it's like, in a way, it's kind of nice. The parallel is not perfect, even if we think about, like.

[C]

It rhymes.

[D]

Yeah, it rhymes. Yeah, exactly. And the same thing is true with, like, this thinking about Hannah and Ann, which is just Hannah, the song of Hannah shares, or I guess it's the opposite. Mary's Magnificat shares a lot in common with the song of Hannah after the birth of or preceding the birth of Samuel. But Hannah and Anne are sort of like the two comparisons, but also Hannah and Mary. So you can think about. Actually, there's a rich way to think about the correspondence of Samuel and Mary, with Samuel being the prophet who anoints the king of Israel, David, and then with Mary, whose conception and birth of Christ is kind of an anointing he emerges as a king. Right. From a prophet. So like, their kinship is even obviously much closer than that of Samuel and David. But there is this kind of parallel.

[C]

Thank you. I wasn't aware of that.

[D]

Anyways, that's a little away from the artwork.

[C]

Scriptural exegesis.

[D]

Yeah, but yeah, yeah, but yeah. I think this was sort of the first time I thought about that parable because I'd always thought about Hannah and Mary together as a kind of pair.

[C]

But yeah, interesting. Well, we know the saints of Joachim and Anne. They're the patrons of grandparents, and then Anne is the patron saint. Unmarried women, housewives, women in labor, mothers and childless couples. Are there other other things or legacy today of these saints that you would recommend or other details about their lives?

[D]

Yeah, I guess one thing to just reflect on as you. As you think about their story is that there was this thing they had wanted their whole lives, which was. Or their whole marriage, which is to have a child. And that had been denied. But once they are able to have a child, they immediately. Or after three years, like I was just talking about my three year old. Like, I'm sure Mary is a better three year old than my three year old. Maybe once you have a three year old, you want to give it away to a temple, I don't know. But Dr. Venison's three year old is adorable. No, but it's what they'd wanted for so long and they immediately. They immediately give it up. So if you think of only within sort of their own story, like the arc is toward the final accomplishment of this goal or this wish and it being fulfilled to have this child, but it's part of this much larger story. And so to offer up their own desire and their own wish for their own life becomes instrumental in. In salvation history. So I think that's kind of helpful thing to remember with our much smaller sacrifices. Often that the small story is the small story and the big story is a big story. So beautiful. Useful to keep in mind.

[C]

Yeah, no, thank you. That is a beautiful reminder of what they were desiring for so long. And then in the gift and reception of it, they immediately offered it back in service or to the Father and to God. So wonderful. Well, thank you. That was very interesting. If you'd like to see some of the art depicted about saints Joachim and Anne, we'll add it into the captions so you can visually come to life some of what we shared about today. So thank you so much for joining us.

[D]

Yeah, very happy.

[C]

Saints Joe came and Anne pray for us.

[D]

Pray for us.

[C]

Thanks for joining.

[D]

Thanks.

[B]

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