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Some of the most formative marriage counsel isn't found in a book, a technique, or a counseling session, but rather it comes from watching another couple walk faithfully with Jesus over time.

In part two of this conversation, CCEF's Gunner Gundersen and Aaron Sironi explore Paul's surprising strategy in Philippians: imitation. Paul doesn't point to marriage principles but instead insists we keep our eyes on people who imitate Christ.

Aaron also shares the rest of his story: how an honest "I don't know" in a conversation with a church elder launched him into biblical counseling, and what he's learned since about the deeper longings underneath many struggling marriages: Do I matter to you? Will you be there?

Listen to a rich conversation about slow formation, counter-images, and what it looks like to have a marriage worthy of the gospel.

Mentioned in this episode: Register now at ccef.org/2026 for our CCEF Annual Conference before the price increases after June 16.

Related resources: Dynamics of Biblical Change | Online course taught by David Powlison Speaking Truth in Marital Conflict | Blog by Lauren Whitman On Marriage Counseling | JBC Must Reads by Aaron Sironi, Lauren Whitman, Winston Smith