The Pirate Connection

Summary

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Family Lore – "The Pirate Connection"

Podcast: Family Lore | Host: Lloyd Lockridge (Audacy)
Episode Date: June 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Lloyd Lockridge investigates how personal and family stories about legendary figures can be passed down, reshaped, hidden, or even transformed into the stuff of fantasy. The subject: the infamous pirate Jean Lafitte and his brother Pierre. Two guests—Diane Burkitt, a genealogy enthusiast from Metairie, Louisiana, and Jim Nonis, a lifelong Lafitte devotee from Galveston, Texas—share very different personal connections to Lafitte. While Diane uncovers an unexpected (and complicated) family heritage linking her directly to the Lafittes, Jim’s link is rooted in obsession, reenactment, and even a belief in reincarnation. The episode explores the joys and struggles of genealogical discovery, the power of legacy, and the ways in which both truth and myth shape personal identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enduring Allure of Pirate Lore

• (01:04–03:00) Lloyd opens with his own fascination with pirates, referencing Pirates of the Caribbean and the romanticization of pirate life in history and pop culture.
• The Lafitte brothers, Jean and Pierre, occupy a central place in New Orleans lore and beyond—places, businesses, and even bars bear their name.

Quote:

“What is it about pirates? Why are we so captivated by the romantic idea of being one? ... I don't think many people are immune to the pirate fantasy.”
—Lloyd Lockridge (01:13)

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2. Diane Burkitt: Search for Family Truths and the Lafitte Legend

• (02:35–04:20) Diane’s family has roots stretching back to early French settlers in New Orleans.
• Her passion for genealogy stems from family storytelling, old photos, and an almost spiritual sense of duty to remember those who came before.
  Quote:

“To me, there's a sadness associated with forgetting about people. ... I feel this, like, responsibility to put some effort into remembering people who are the reason I exist.”
—Lloyd Lockridge (04:43)

• (06:54–07:23) As a child, Diane overheard whispers at a family gathering claiming they were distant cousins of Jean Lafitte—a rumor that persisted in her mind for decades.

• (14:14–15:54) Diane, using modern genealogy and DNA, uncovers dramatic family secrets: infidelity, undisclosed parentage, and the fact that her ancestors hid their black heritage because of the racist “one drop rule” and Jim Crow laws.

Quote:

“There was a little bit of truth in all the stories, but there was a lot of falsehood.”
—Diane Burkitt (15:34)

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3. Unveiling the Lafitte Connection (and the Family’s Hidden Past)

• (16:42–16:58) Diane traces her lineage to Rose Lafitte (third great-grandmother), daughter of Pierre Lafitte (Jean’s brother), confirming her direct descent from the pirates.
• Discovery of racial classification shifts (ancestors listed as both “white” and “colored”) reveals efforts to conceal African heritage for protection in a racist society.

Notable Moment (17:33):

“It was like a eureka moment. ... Maybe this old family story that I overheard in my grandmother's kitchen ... is maybe true.”
—Diane Burkitt

• (19:03–20:48) A Supreme Court case involving Diane's ancestors exposed their black ancestry, prompting subsequent generations to avoid documentation that might “out” them as black.

Quote:

“So while Diane was doing everything she could to find this connection between her and Pierre Lafitte, her ancestors had done everything they could to cover it up.”
—Lloyd Lockridge (20:33)

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4. Personal Reckoning with Ancestry and Identity

• (20:48–22:47) Diane reflects on the revelation's emotional and cultural weight, family reactions, and how racism shaped her ancestors’ decisions and her own understanding of self.

Quote:

“So I was excited about this. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, you know, under the one drop rule, you know, I'm now black. I said, great, what does that mean?”
—Diane Burkitt (20:48)

• Modern DNA testing (2005) confirms Diane's findings, and her story brings her into contact with the Lafitte Society, finally providing the group with a genuine Lafitte descendant.

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5. Jim Nonis: From Lifelong Fascination to Spiritual Bond

• (10:08, 24:55–25:07) Jim, a founder of the Lafitte Society, is motivated not by genealogy but by a deep sense of connection—recounting recurring pirate dreams since childhood.
• His passion manifests in leading reenactments, writing a musical, and even undergoing past life regression therapy, which “reveals” memories of Lafitte’s life.

Quotes:

“I went to a Halloween party dressed as Lafitte ... oh my god, this is the true me.”
—Jim Nonis (10:08)

“So I was very hesitant, and I still am, to say that I am Jean Lafitte reincarnated. ... Maybe you could [take it to court], but maybe you couldn’t.”
—Jim Nonis (30:20)

• Despite embarrassment about his beliefs, Jim embraces his passion and believes his dedication is a form of honoring the past.

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6. Romanticization vs. Reality — How Legacies Are Remembered

• (32:44–34:23) Lloyd points out that while New Orleans reveres the adventurous spirit of Jean Lafitte, his brother Pierre—and their black descendants like Diane—have been largely overlooked.

Quote:

“New Orleans embraces the romanticized version of Jean Lafitte. And Pierre has basically been lost to history.”
—Diane Burkitt (32:44)

• Jim, however, keeps Pierre and Pierre’s wife alive in a musical he’s written, sharing a song for Pierre’s wife that highlights the personal, emotional side of the Lafitte legacy.

Memorable Moment:

Jim sings a song from his musical:
“That big old lazy moon / Coming round so soon / Almost every night on the Mississippi / Where did I go wrong? / Where does he belong? / Somewhere out to sea / He's coming home to me…”
—Jim Nonis (33:17)

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7. Closing Reflections on Family Lore & Identity

• For Diane, the reality of her heritage is sobering yet empowering:

  “They did what they did to survive and I'm here because of it. So I'm a little bit proud to be a Lafitte descendant. I'm certainly proud of their participation in the Battle of New Orleans and you know, the rest is a good story.”
  —Diane Burkitt (34:23)

• For Jim, connection to the past shapes his life’s passion, even to the point of writing a musical to honor it.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:04 — Lloyd’s reflection on the fascination with pirate lore
• 02:35 — Diane’s family background and start in genealogy
• 06:54 — Diane overhears Lafitte family rumor as a child
• 10:08 — Jim Nonis’s first encounter with Lafitte reenactment
• 14:14 — Diane discovers gaps in her family records
• 16:58 — Discovery of Rose Lafitte; Diane’s direct ancestry to Pierre Lafitte
• 19:03 — Story of Supreme Court case and hiding of family’s black ancestry
• 20:48 — Diane’s emotional reflection on race, identity, and family reaction
• 24:55 — Jim’s recurring childhood dreams and spiritual connection
• 28:05 — Jim’s past life regression and vivid “memories”
• 32:44 — Discussion on Pierre Lafitte’s forgotten legacy and Jim’s musical
• 34:23 — Diane’s pride in her ancestry and closing reflections

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Notable Quotes

• “What is it about pirates? Why are we so captivated by the romantic idea of being one?” —Lloyd Lockridge (01:13)
• “There was a little bit of truth in all the stories, but there was a lot of falsehood.” —Diane Burkitt (15:34)
• “So while Diane was doing everything she could to find this connection ..., her ancestors had done everything they could to cover it up.” —Lloyd Lockridge (20:33)
• “So I was excited about this. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, you know, under the one drop rule, you know, I'm now black. I said, great, what does that mean?” —Diane Burkitt (20:48)
• “I went to a Halloween party dressed as Lafitte ... oh my god, this is the true me.” —Jim Nonis (10:08)
• “So I was very hesitant, and I still am, to say that I am Jean Lafitte reincarnated. ... Maybe you could [take it to court], but maybe you couldn’t.” —Jim Nonis (30:20)
• “New Orleans embraces the romanticized version of Jean Lafitte. And Pierre has basically been lost to history.” —Diane Burkitt (32:44)
• “They did what they did to survive and I'm here because of it. So I'm a little bit proud to be a Lafitte descendant.” —Diane Burkitt (34:23)

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Episode Themes & Takeaways

• Genealogy reveals not just connection but complex truths: The pursuit of family history can bring to light joyful and painful realities—stories buried by shame or necessity.
• Stories shape identity: The desire to remember (or forget) the past has real implications for how we understand ourselves and our place in the world.
• Legacy is personal and collective: Whether through evidence-based research (Diane) or romantic, even spiritual obsession (Jim), the urge to connect to history persists. Genealogy and family lore are about the meaning we find and the meaning we make.

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This episode of Family Lore blends compelling narrative, historical investigation, personal confession, and the magic of oral tradition to show that the legends we inherit—and the truths we wrestle from them—are as much about the present as the past.

Transcript

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[Lloyd Lockridge]

I will never forget the first time I saw Pirates of the Caribbean. Probably because I didn't see it just once. I was 14 years old. I bought tickets to a showing and then I stayed in the theater and watched it two more times back to back. What is it about pirates? Why are we so captivated by the romantic idea of being one? Why has the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise made over $4.5 billion globally? I don't think many people are immune to the pirate fantasy. Even the famous British poet John Masefield, known for his melancholy reflections on the hardship of life, was swept up by the I'm going to be a pirate with a bright brass pivot gun and an island in the Spanish Main beyond the setting sun and a silver flagon full of red wine to drink when work is done. Like a fine old salt sea scavenger, like a tarry buccaneer. But fantasies aside, pirates were real and their lives were complicated, as are the legacies they left behind. And in this episode, we're going to hear from two people who are connected to the same famous pirate, though in vastly different ways. I'm Lloyd Lockridge, and you're listening to family lore, So could you tell me your name and where you're from?

[Diane Burkitt]

Diane Burkitt, and I am from Metairie. Born and raised in Metairie.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

For those who aren't familiar with local geographies, where is Metairie?

[Diane Burkitt]

Metairie is Immediately due west of the the city of New Orleans proper. But you can throw a stone across the 17th Street Canal, which is the dividing line.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

There are many things that make Diane Burkitt a true New Orleanian, one being her hospitality. I called her up out of the blue, told her what I was trying to do with this podcast, and she happily invited me into her home. Another is her roots. It's not uncommon to bump into a New Orleanian whose family's been here for a long time, but Diane takes that to the extreme. Her paternal great grandparents moved from New Orleans to the adjacent suburb of Metairie in 1892. And your maternal line goes back a bit farther?

[Diane Burkitt]

Yes, my maternal line goes back to the original settlers, French settlers of Louisiana.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

So your maternal line goes all the way back to the original settlement of New Orleans, back when it was a small port town, trading hub, even before that. Right.

[Diane Burkitt]

I'm descended from Paris Duvernay, and he settled this area in the early 1700s.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And Diane has always known about her deep New Orleans roots. She's also done a great deal of research to iron out exactly what those roots look like. Unlike me, Diane is a true genealogist. Do you know why you were interested in genealogy in the first place, why you wanted to dedicate all this time to figuring these things out?

[Diane Burkitt]

I was always fascinated by it and fascinated by family stories and old pictures and my grandmother that I can recall sitting down at the kitchen table and going through an old photograph and saying, well, who is this person and how are they related? Can you tell me anything about him?

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Yeah. So I think about this all the time because I share this kind of interest in family stories. Obviously, doing this podcast and, you know, I have not found a good way to articulate why I care about these stories and these people. It's more than just that they're related to me. I think there's some innate curiosity and just the human condition. Why are we here? What are we supposed to do? Where do we go after? And maybe fixating on our past is a way to kind of scratch that itch of those big questions about life and existence. To me, there's a sadness associated with forgetting about people. I sometimes feel this, like, responsibility to put some effort into remembering people who are the reason I exist.

[Diane Burkitt]

When my paternal grandmother was sitting around the kitchen table looking at family pictures, she told me about her grandmother, who was given as a child to a family that was immigrating to America because her own mother was a widow and had, like, Old Mother Hubbard, too. Many children to take care of. So she just gave her daughter 8 or 9 years old to a family who was immigrating to America, who had lost one of their own children of a similar age, you know, in hopes that maybe her life would be better in America than it was in Germany. I know I'm never going to see her. Yeah, but maybe she'll have a better life.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

That's a devastating story, really.

[Diane Burkitt]

So it was kind of like a journey for me.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Over the years, Diane has encountered dozens of fascinating tidbits about her ancestors. But there was one story that she encountered prior to her work as a self taught genealogist. It was the 1950s. Diane was about 7 years old and her grandparents were hosting a large family gathering. At some point, Diane wandered into the kitchen and overheard some women having what looked like a private conversation.

[Diane Burkitt]

The movie the Buccaneer came out about that time. And Jean Lafitte might have been in discussion, in possibly discussing the movie, you know, with Yul Brenner and Charlton Heston.

[Jim Nonis]

Let me make this very clear, gentlemen. Before I surrender this city, I will

[Diane Burkitt]

burn it to the ground. And I just overheard somebody say, distant cousins of Jean Lafitte, the pirate. It had me perplexed.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

We're a distant cousin of the pirate Jean Lafitte. That's what Diane overheard and it stuck with her. As she got older, she wondered if there was any truth to this little rumor. She doubted it. Because if it were true, why would she only hear about it this one time? If you lived in New Orleans and you thought there was even a remote possibility that you were related to Jean Lafitte, you wouldn't keep that a secret. You'd brag about it incessantly. Now, I realize some of you might not know who exactly Jean Lafitte was. So let me take a second to refresh your memory. If you visited New Orleans, you've probably noticed Lafitte's name. The Lafitte Greenway. Jean Lafitte State park in the swamp south of the city. More likely, you went to Lafitte's, the bar on Bourbon and St. Philip, which bills itself the oldest bar in the United States. But who was he? Why is his name on everything? So, first off, there were actually two Laffites, Jean and his older brother, Pierre. And to put it simply, they were pirates. They commanded a small pirate navy which robbed merchant vessels in the Caribbean, took the loot to their secret hiding place in the Barataria swamps, smuggled the goods into New Orleans and sold them. And they also had an Interesting rendezvous with history. During the famous Battle of New Orleans in 1815, Andrew Jackson and his Tennessee militia had arrived in New Orleans to repel a British invasion. But Jackson's army was depleted. They were low on supplies, especially munitions. So after arriving in New Orleans, Jackson made a deal with the pirates. Lafitte. Bring your gunpowder and flints and help me defeat the British. And if you agree to stop pirating, I'll see to it that you are pardoned for all of your obvious crimes. Lafitte accepted. Andrew Jackson's American army teamed up with Jean Lafitte's pirate navy, and together they absolutely demolished the British. The final score was 71American casualties to 2037 for the British. When the war ended, Jean and Pierre Lafitte were pardoned. But old habits die hard and the Lafittes got right back to pirating. Having reneged on their end of the bargain, the Lafittes were chased out of New Orleans and set up a new outpost in Galveston, Texas. Nobody knows exactly how, but Jean Lafitte probably died off the coast of the Yucatan around 1825. And people believe Pierre died on the Mexican mainland around the same time. And I don't think I need to explain why. The story of the pirates Slaffitte became romanticized. They were literal pirates of the Caribbean who celebrated daring nautical heists under oak canopies dripping with Spanish moss and traded in the misty alleyways of the French Quarter. The story is oozing with romance, and there are some out there who are deeply involved in that romance.

[Jim Nonis]

I went to a Halloween party dressed as Lafitte. I got the boots, I got the sword, the hair, the whatever. And I went and oh my God, this is the true me.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

This is Jim Nonis. Jim is a fifth generation resident of Galveston, Texas, and a lifelong Jean Lafitte fanatic. He has done Jean Lafitte reenactments and given speeches around the country. And back in the mid-90s, a like minded friend of Jim's named Dale Olson approached him with an idea. He wanted to know if Jim would be interested in starting a club for Lafitte enthusiasts.

[Jim Nonis]

Would you have any interest in that? I said, absolutely. And he said, well, what would we call? I said, well, it would have to be the Lafitte Society.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And tell me about those early gatherings. What are you learning about the other people who want to be a part of the Lafitte Society?

[Jim Nonis]

I realized early on, number one, they're all more educated than I am. They are pretty brilliant. They all have money and I'm the poorest of the group. I'm the youngest of the group. And I'm the dumbest of the group. So I exceed them in passion. I have told them the Lafitte Society will never die as long as Jim Nonis is alive. And it won't, because from my nursing room bed, I will conduct meetings.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And the meetings usually consist of copious wine and conversation about recent scholarly research on Laffites or anything tangentially related. They've had guest speakers like William C. Davis, the author of a very impressive nonfiction book called the Pirate's Lafitte, which is the authoritative history on the subject. And they also had a keen interest in finding descendants of people who were somehow connected to Lafitte.

[Jim Nonis]

I got a descendant of Jane Long to come speak. I got a descendant.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Who's Jane Long?

[Jim Nonis]

Jane Long is the mother of Texas. Oh. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Bolivar. Then I got a descendant of Arsene LeBlue. And they are like Charles. And there's Lafitte stories there.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

But one descendant the Lafitte Society could never find was a true descendant of Laffite. There were people who claimed to be related to Lafitte, but nobody with any real proof. What the Lafitte Society didn't realize is, as they were forming their club, there was a woman named Diane Birkett, who never let go of that rumor she overheard in her grandmother's kitchen, the one about being a distant cousin of Jean and Pierre Lafitte. Diane had just installed a genealogy software, and she was about to start connecting some dots. But in the process of digging up her family's past, she discovered something the family had hoped to forget.

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[Jim Nonis]

Yeah.

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[Diane Burkitt]

Well, you.

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[Lloyd Lockridge]

When Diane started her genealogical work in earnest in the mid-90s, many of her relatives had either passed away or drifted out of her life. So despite having a lot of old stories about her family, Diane was basically starting from scratch.

[Diane Burkitt]

I knew absolutely nothing about my mother's family. I'd lost all connection to her relatives, her cousins. And just where do you start? Okay, so I started with my grandmother. Couldn't find anything about my grandmother.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Diane couldn't even locate birth records or a marriage license for her grandmother, which is very odd. So she moved up to her great grandparents, Edward and Henrietta Rule. And with the rules, Diane encountered the first of many surprises. Diane knew that her great grandparents, Edward and Henrietta had been divorced. And she was able to obtain the actual divorce papers from the New Orleans library. When she read the transcripts, she saw that Henrietta had actually been accused of infidelity. And with the help of DNA, Diane then discovered that Edward Rule was not her grandmother's father. Her grandmother was not a rule, and neither was she. At least not biologically. To this day, Diane has no idea who her great grandfather was. I mean, because at this point, I'm imagining you getting to the point where you feel like you can't rely on what people think they know. And it's just, you know, you're gonna need some documentation or DNA evidence, preferably

[Diane Burkitt]

a combination of all, because nobody appears

[Lloyd Lockridge]

to be 100% right.

[Diane Burkitt]

Yeah, there was a little bit of truth in all the stories, but there was a lot of falsehood.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And through the combination of archival records and DNA, Diane was able to determine that Henrietta's mother, and therefore her second great grandmother, was a woman named Matilda Allnet. And that led to yet another perplexing detail.

[Diane Burkitt]

What I first learned of her name and was able to pull up her birth certificates. You know, I discovered she was listed as colored. And that was a big surprise to me. So I'm wondering, okay, what's going on here?

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Then Diane went back another generation to her third great grandmother, hoping to find some clues as to why her second great grandmother was listed as colored.

[Diane Burkitt]

And she was living with her father in the 1880 census, and they were listed as white in the census. You know, how come she's white and her daughter is colored?

[Lloyd Lockridge]

So using the information from the 1880 census, she did some research on the man listed as her third great grandmother's father.

[Diane Burkitt]

I found him in an old city directory, and he's listed as a free man of color. So, okay, now, who is he married to? He's married to Rose Lafitte.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Rose Lafitte, Diane's fourth great grandmother, the daughter of Mary Louise Villard and Pierre Lafitte, the Pirate, Jean Lafitte's brother. The conversation she overheard in the kitchen some 50 years prior was actually an understatement. Diane wasn't a distant cousin of the Lafittes. She was a direct descendant. She was the fifth great granddaughter of Pierre and the fifth great grandniece of Jean Lafitte. Can you tell me about when you first saw that name, Lafitte, on a record?

[Diane Burkitt]

It was like a eureka moment. You know, I said, wow, you know, maybe this old family story that I overheard in my grandmother's kitchen Loath as many years ago is maybe true.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Diane was thrilled. Through her investigative genealogical work, she had proven a direct ancestral link to one of the most legendary figures in New Orleans history. Very cool if you're into genealogy history, New Orleans, and or pirates. But there was still something bothering Diane. Throughout her research, she was unable to find basic, vital records on many of her ancestors. And all of those ancestors were on her mother's side, the Lafitte side. Why? Well, after Diane made her discovery, she was put in touch with William C. Davis, who was about to publish his book, the Pirate's Lafitte. As it turns out, Davis had attempted his own genealogical study of the Lafittes, only from the opposite direction. While Diane was working her way up to Lafitte, Davis was working his way down. And on his way down, he hit a barrier.

[Diane Burkitt]

And he was saying that he was only able to track the family down to about the 1910s or so. And he ran into a roadblock and didn't have any other success in tracking them down. So I was wondering, why did he have that failure?

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Davis told Diane that his investigation basically ended when he came upon a court filing that involved some Lafitte descendants. It was a civil suit that went all the way to the Louisiana Supreme Court. The suit involved Alexandrine Farr, who was also a descendant of Lafitte and a cousin to Diane's great grandmother Henrietta. In the suit, the Farr family, along with other cousins, sued the Louisiana Board of Health for having documents that listed them as colored, which was a big problem. This was the Jim Crow era, a time of ruthless systemic racism. Being black guaranteed major social and economic disadvantages. And being black was defined by something known as the one drop rule. If you had one Drop of black blood, no matter how distant or remote, you were considered black. But Diane's ancestors, the Fars, did not think they had any black ancestry. So they sued the Board of Health to have that classification changed. But their complaint only prompted the Board of Health to provide documentation proving their black ancestry. They were all descendants of Rose Lafitte, who was half black herself and married to a free man of color. And herein lies the answer to the research woes that Diane and William C. Davis were experiencing. Following the decision in this civil suit, the descendants of the Lafittes began avoiding any kind of official documentation that might list their race. That's why Diane's mother doesn't have any birthrights records. That's why Diane's grandmother doesn't have a marriage certificate. They were all trying to hide their blackness. So while Diane was doing everything she could to find this connection between her and Pierre Lafitte, her ancestors had done everything they could to cover it up.

[Diane Burkitt]

So I was excited about this. And then I thought, oh, my gosh, you know, under the one drop rule, you know, I'm now black. I said, great, what does that mean?

[Lloyd Lockridge]

What was giving you pause?

[Diane Burkitt]

You know, the one drop rule.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

But by the time you made this connection, the one drop rule no longer had any significance. Right.

[Diane Burkitt]

It didn't have any legal significance, but it still had, you know, emotional and cultural significance.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

What was the emotional and cultural significance?

[Diane Burkitt]

Not necessarily how I thought of myself, but how other people might think of me.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

What were you thinking might happen?

[Diane Burkitt]

I was thinking that maybe people might see me as different. And, you know, that was of some concern to me. You know, if it didn't make any difference to me, let me spread it out.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Did you have any living ancestors who were disturbed by the revelation that you had black ancestry?

[Diane Burkitt]

Oh, a lot of them. A lot of them, they said no. They'd never heard that story. It couldn't be true. You know, like my father, who is pure Caucasian, has no African bloodline whatsoever in his DNA. He has always been, or always was very prejudicial. So I was more concerned about Dad's reaction.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Right. Because obviously he's learning that not only does he have a daughter with black ancestry, but a wife.

[Diane Burkitt]

Yeah, he was accepting of it, but even then, I don't think he really accepted the validity of the research I had done. So there was always this place in his mind that he could still be in denial about it,

[Lloyd Lockridge]

but there was no denying it. When the National Geographic Genome Project came out in 2005, Diane sent in a sample of her DNA. She was haplogroup L1C B2, one of the ancient subgroups of Sub Saharan Africa. Her research was accurate. Diane had black ancestry and Diane was a Lafitte. After Diane completed her research, she got in touch with the Lafitte Society who had always wondered if there were any Laffitte descendants out there. They invited her to a gathering and relished in the company of a true Laffitte heir. Our friend Jim Nonis, co founder of the Lafitte Society, was there and Jim of course, was enchanted with Diane and her story. But there was one aspect of the story to which Jim simply could not relate. That Diane's ancestors could be related to Lafitte and deny it. Because Jim had his own connection to Lafitte. And unlike Diane, Jim's connection has practically defined him.

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[Jim Nonis]

It started with nightmares. When I was three or four years old, I was having nightmares of being smuggled on board a ship by two grizzly looking pirates in a toe sack.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

This is Jim Nonis again, co founder of the Lafitte Society. Back in the 90s when Jim was approached to start the Lafitte Society, he was actually holding something back about his past. Something he felt a little nervous sharing with his collaborators. He was not simply interested in the feat, he felt connected to him. It started with strange recurring childhood dreams and nightmares.

[Jim Nonis]

And there was a secondary dream that I started having and it was having a sword fight in a beautiful colonial period building with a grand staircase and a chandelier above, over the hand of a beautiful, beautiful blonde woman and a satin blue dress. Those two dreams kept reoccurring, probably from the age of three and four, like six, seven times or more a year, those two same dreams.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Jim tells me he was a shy kid, maybe a little uncomfortable in his own skin or a little frightened of the world around him, a feeling probably exacerbated by recurring dreams of being smuggled around in toe sacks and having random sword fights.

[Jim Nonis]

And when I was in school, I couldn't hold my hand up and ask a question. I was too nervous.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And Jim's mother was acutely aware of this, and she decided that instead of running from visions of pirates, he should confront them. And when you live in Galveston, confronting the specter of pirates is a local amenity.

[Jim Nonis]

My mother took me to the Lafitte property and showed me where Lafitte had built on the island, and it intrigued me. And then she started reading articles in the newspaper to me, specifically about his being on the island. And I have to tell you, she knew more about me than I knew about myself as far as where I was going to go in life.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Jim's recurring dreams and introduction to Lafitte's ruins and records of his exploits instilled a curiosity that stayed with him into adulthood. It was more than a curiosity, actually. He felt a sort of kinship, one he couldn't make sense of as an adult.

[Jim Nonis]

I thought, what is up with this and Lafitte? Why am I so enamored with this story? Why am I so drawn to all this? And finally, I was so curious about why I was so driven that I did a past life regression.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

A past life regression. If you're not familiar with this concept, past life regression is a somewhat controversial form of therapy based on what's called a reincarnation hypothesis. The idea is that every soul is reincarnated many times over. And with the help of a hypnotherapist, you can potentially locate these past lives and discover who you were.

[Jim Nonis]

So I find out through a dear friend there is a lady that does past life regressions in all places. Spanish Grant in Galveston. So I went to Spanish Grant and I let this lady put me under hypnosis. And it's the only time I've ever really been able to achieve what I would say was video in an out of state or out of body type experience. She would ask me a question and a scene would come up just like if you had a TV screen right in front of you. I wish I could achieve that today because there's so many more questions I would ask.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Let's talk a little more about what you did achieve there. So you're under hypnosis, your eyes are closed, and in your mind's eye you're seeing clips. And what are you seeing exactly?

[Jim Nonis]

I was on a sandy beach in the middle of the Caribbean, barefooted. And so maybe the next question was, where are you now? And I was walking down a sidewalk in New Orleans on boards with mud squishing up between the boards. And so then she went on and on. And then there was another time, where are you now? And I was in probably San Juan, Puerto Rico. I had no money, and I went to the back door of a restaurant saloon, and a lady came out and handed me a bowl of beans to eat, and I was starving. And she said, so why did you leave New Orleans? And my eyes started flooding with tears. I started to hyperventilate. I left because they called me a pirate and a thief after all I had done for them.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

I'm not going to challenge this belief of yours too strongly, but there are some who would say your interest in Lafitte led you to have these dreams, as opposed to the reason you were having these dreams in the first place is because of this spiritual connection to Lafitte. What convinces you that it's the latter? That is true.

[Jim Nonis]

So I was very hesitant, and I still am, to say that I am Jean Lafitte reincarnated. But I was born in the right place at the right time, I think, and somewhat of a pure Galvestonian. I think if I were going to reenter life and pay homage to Lafitte, that I would come to New Orleans or Galveston to be reborn. And I was in Galveston. I think I have more evidence, in a way. You probably couldn't take it to court, but maybe you could of possibly being that person that lived 200 years ago.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

So Jim did mention to me that when he first had this past life regression experience, he was embarrassed to tell people how it had affected him. But now, at 77 years old, he doesn't let that bother him.

[Jim Nonis]

I mean, at the point in my life where I'm more apt to embrace it all and try to still figure it out. But I think I've got a better handle now on what it is. My connection, and my connection is lifelong. And it's funny that I've spent my entire life focusing on someone else's life. It makes you wonder, have I done myself a disservice?

[Lloyd Lockridge]

That's a really good point. Have you been so wrapped up in your past life that you neglected your present life. Do you feel like you have.

[Jim Nonis]

No, because I've enjoyed my passion. It's my passion, yeah. And I have many passions, but I have not given them the thousands of hours that I've given Lafitte that I might question sometimes someday. Why did you give him so much time? But along the way, I've been able to reach out to the other things.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And this is why I don't think it really matters whether or not you believe that Jim is Jean Lafitte reincarnated. I'm guessing most of you think the whole notion is ridiculous, but who cares? That's not the point. The point, I think, goes back to something Diane Burkitt and I were discussing at the beginning of this episode about the sadness associated with forgetting people. People who, despite all their flaws, once meant something to somebody. Because in my interview with Diane Birkett, she pointed out that while people celebrate Jean Lafitte, they've largely forgotten about her fifth great grandfather, Pierre.

[Diane Burkitt]

New Orleans embraces the romanticized version of Jean Lafitte. And Pierre has basically been lost to

[Lloyd Lockridge]

history, but he has not been lost to Jim Nonis. Jim remembers Pierre Lafitte. He even remembers Pierre's wife, Diane's fifth great grandmother, Marie Louise Villard. The memory of Pierre and Marie Louise is very much alive with Jim. In fact, they are both heavily featured in a three act musical about the Lafittes that Jim has written and composed.

[Jim Nonis]

So I wrote a song for Pierre's wife to sing about Pierre because she described him to. That big old lazy moon that big old lazy moon Coming round so soon Almost every night on the Mississippi where did I go wrong? Where does he belong? Somewhere out to sea he's coming home to me Me. But she calls him a big old lazy moon. Thank you. Because he's just like that moon. He's always around, but sometimes you don't see him because he really don't show. He don't come home.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

The musical has not found its way to the stage yet. That is Jim's next big goal. He told me that if Lafitte the Musical gets produced, then all of this will have been worth it. And as for Diane, the true evidence driven genealogist, she's never let herself get too wrapped up in the romantic view of Lafitte, though she does allow herself a little bit of pride.

[Diane Burkitt]

They did what they did to survive and I'm here because of it. So I'm a little bit proud to be a Lafitte descendant. I'm certainly proud of their participation in the Battle of New Orleans and you know, the rest is a good story.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Thank you for listening to Family Lore. If you have stories you'd like to share about your family, please email [e-mail] that's familylorepodmail.com family lore is an Odyssey original podcast. It is written and narrated by me, Lloyd Lockridge. Our executive producers are Leah Rees, Dennis and I. Our lead producer and Sound editor is Zach Clark. Our story editors are Maddy Sprung Keyser and Katie Mingle. Additional sound, editing, mixing and mastering by Chris Basel and production support by Sean Cherry. Special thanks to Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff and Laura Berman. Thanks again for listening to Family Lore and if you have time, we'd love for you to rate and review the show.

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