← Change Your Brain Every Day
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- [00:02]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Every day you are making your brain better or you are making it worse. Stay with us to learn how you can change your brain for the better. Every day I've been waiting for this. Our best selling L Theanine gummies are finally back. I take them whenever I need to feel calm, frequently focused energy, whether I'm working, traveling or just winding down at the end of the day. They taste amazing and they always sell out fast. If you've been waiting for them too, now's the time to stock up. Grab yours@brainmd.com and use the code podcast. 20 for 20% off. We're talking about the they, them and other dragons, which is basically the influence of other people, alive and dead, on your brain and on your mind. Your brain is always listening. And these dragons are the most emotionally charged of all the dragons, which is why they can make you more upset than any of the other ones. Well, and they can also, especially when the relationship goes sour.
- [01:32]
Tana Amen
Well, they can also hold you back or they can motivate you to behave a certain way.
- [01:36]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Your brain is always listening to the criticisms and encouragements of past sweethearts, the words and deeds of your current self spouse. And if you're not in a relationship, what you imagine that other person is likely to say or act toward you, your brain is always listening. I mean, you're wired for love because that's how the species continues.
- [02:09]
Tana Amen
So I would love to know one of your Tell me one of negative things from the past that someone has told you that stuck for a long time. One of your past relationships that sort of affected you in a negative way or motivated you in a negative way, positive or negative.
- [02:26]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I remember my first wife, if she was upset at 11 o' clock at night, she'd want to talk about it till three in the morning. And when I'm like, I have to work tomorrow, you don't care about me. And so it was clearly a manipulation to control me, but it happened way more than once. And so am I not a caring person or what? And if you don't draw boundaries, it can really wear you out. Being in a difficult relationship is chronically stressful and if you don't learn to either, okay, let's get this help or move on, it can really damage you both physically, psychologically, socially, spiritually.
- [03:25]
Tana Amen
Absolutely. So I have one that also was a manipulative thing. It was a very unhealthy relationship, which says more about me at the time and how I picked. Then I actually write about it in my book because it's really important to take stock and take responsibility. But I was dating someone very unhealthy, very emotionally abusive and said when I was going back to school and I had a lot of dreams and I knew I was really smart, was trying to keep me from doing that and said, the only way you're getting through school is, is on your back. And that was so painful. But it motivated me, it motivated me to do really well in school to prove this person wrong. But the problem was I then saw myself as stupid if I got anything less than an A in everything. So you have to be really careful with those. But I also want to point out the flip side of that because now being with someone where the relationship is amazing, where it's really healthy, that also is always in my ear. So when, like when I'm stressed out about something, things are, you know, I think things are like going crazy and it's not going to be okay. I always have in my head, you're like, eh, it's fine, it's all going to be fine. It's all going to be okay. And you've got this, like, it's just, that's always in my head. So even when I feel like the whole world is like, you know, crumbling around me, I always like in the back of my head, it's like, I like, what would you say? I know what you would say. And then somehow that settles me down. So you've got both. You know what I mean? You have to, you have to be able to.
- [04:57]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, I'm just, you know, I feel like we are so blessed because of how good we get along almost all the time. And I know half the people who get married get divorced and the other half who stay together are unhappy because relationships are hard, that they take a lot of work and some of it's luck. Some of it is there's a good fit and some of it, it's not a good fit. But if for religious reasons, I think that's why I stayed for 20 years or the kids, it's another reason why I stayed that you feel trapped, that it's chronically stressful, chronically painful. And if you say at some point this doesn't fit, you are not a bad person. You know, I just. Sometimes it doesn't fit. And the chronic stress hurts people more than the pain of separation. But when people separate, that's when they get crazy, right? Right. I mean, that's when you read about murder, suicide and all of that. Because attachment is a basic human need. And when the attachment feels phrase or it Breaks. Often people feel very unbalanced, sometimes for years.
- [06:44]
Tana Amen
Yeah. So it seems to me like a really good exercise would be to pay attention and write down things that when you. When you find those thoughts coming up, it's like, where's that coming from? Is that coming from, you know, one of those voices from the past, one of those dragons from the past, from a relationship like. Like the one I had. It's really important. But also pay attention when you have the good ones. Like, you constantly tell me, I'm one of the most competent people you know, one of the smartest people you know. So don't just write down the bad ones. Write down the good ones so you can pay attention. Right.
- [07:15]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, in criticizing your spouse, you're really criticizing yourself because you picked him or her. And I think what works for us is we don't do that. And we notice what we like.
- [07:36]
Tana Amen
Well. And we are not afraid to apologize
- [07:38]
Dr. Daniel Amen
or what we don't like.
- [07:40]
Tana Amen
And we're not.
- [07:41]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And we're not afraid to say, I don't like when you do that.
- [07:43]
Tana Amen
Right. You have to be able to say that safely.
- [07:46]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So there's clarity, assertiveness. In my books, I write about relating. 100% responsible for how we turn out.
- [07:56]
Tana Amen
Right.
- [07:56]
Dr. Daniel Amen
At least for my actions. It's easy to blame someone else. It's much harder to go, what can I do to make this better? That we're good with empathy and seeing things from each other's point of view. We've been good at listening. Assertiveness. We're both assertive people. We have time. I think in the pandemic, we had more time. We don't believe every stupid thing. We think that's the eye. We inquire, we notice what we like, and. And we're good with grace and forgiveness.
- [08:28]
Tana Amen
And, you know, there's only. There's only a fight if you pick up. If you pick up the, you know, the sword. So it's like people get defensive, and then that's where the fight starts. So the first act of war is defense. Right. So when. If you say this hurts my feelings, I don't like it when you do that. There's only a fight if I'm like, you know, if I get defensive and I. And I try to defend it, but you do too.
- [08:50]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Or it's like, that is a common response.
- [08:53]
Tana Amen
Yeah, but. But if. Honestly, if you can just step back for a second and go. And we all do it sometimes. But if you can step back for a second and go, oh, I'm sorry, and you Start off like that. Like, what about that bothers you? It's a whole different conversation.
- [09:09]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Yeah. And I'm actually pretty conscious. If I don't like something, I'll notice when you do the opposite because that way you just know what I like. And you do. You're really good at noticing it. So what can you do better to tame the former, current and prospective lover dragon? Such an interesting now they get triggered when you feel unloved. That's when they're breathing fire on you. What can you leave behind? You don't need the former. The people end up breaking up with you don't need their voice in your head because it really can mess a lot of people. So what did you learn about relationships? I'd love if you post relating responsibility, empathy, listening, assertiveness, time eyes inquire into the negative thoughts you have and has noticed what you like more than what you don't. G is grace and forgiveness. John Gottman has great books on relationships. He talks about the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, that if you are defensive, just like you said, if you're critical, if you stonewall, if you're condescending, those things predict the end of your relationship. And so as opposed to defensiveness, be open. Condescending is just cruel. Kindness is important. Criticism not helpful. Notice what you like more, more than what you don't. And stonewalling is you just stop communicating. That's death for a relationship.
- [11:20]
Tana Amen
I don't think that that's me. I don't stonewall. Internet troll dragons. Let's talk about how they affect people. You know, what you can do about them and how these voices actually what toll they take.
- [11:38]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, it's very interesting that if you write books like you and I, a book that has only five star reviews, people actually don't believe because they know the world is filled with people who have a different opinion. But sometimes an Internet troll is someone who is just so hurtful.
- [12:05]
Tana Amen
Yeah. The vitriol you can just.
- [12:07]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And so hateful that you know it's not about you, that it's about them and that they have more than six.
- [12:19]
Tana Amen
Yeah. Or they'll say things that really don't make sense in context to what you're saying. It's just viciousness coming out.
- [12:25]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And you said something earlier is what you think of me is none of my business.
- [12:33]
Tana Amen
And it's not your job to love me. It's mine.
- [12:36]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And I know Byron. Katie teaches this. Terri Cole teaches this. Who we're going to interview. One of our podcasts coming up. She's writing a book on boundaries that hurt people. Hurt people. And so you often wonder with the real haters, where does that come from? And I've experienced it actually fairly intensely. But if you're going to go against the grain, you just have to expect you're going to upset some people. And if you're not upsetting people, then you're probably not doing anything that's useful and useful. So.
- [13:31]
Tana Amen
But everybody's got their own life experience, their own hurts, their own, you know, whatever's going on, their own differences in religion or politics or whatever. And so there's no possible way everything you say is going to agree with them. You know, how people deliver it. Who knows why they're so angry and vicious? But the fact that I stand by what I said, it really has less to do with you than it does to do with them and their own background, their own experiences.
- [13:59]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, being one of seven, if you have five sisters, somebody was mad at you.
- [14:06]
Tana Amen
And part of that could be their cycle. And I'm gonna get hate mail from women when I say that. But, you know, our moods fluctuate. And that's not just women. Men's moods fluctuate. Men get angry, too. It's like part of it could be, you know, cyclical. It could be just you had a fight with your wife and you need someone to take it out on. I mean, there's so many things.
- [14:24]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I wonder if there's ever been a study on that, on negativity associated with time of cycle.
- [14:31]
Tana Amen
I don't know. But, I mean, we all know. Like, I even, like, my daughter and I joke about it. It's like, we know, like, we'll come back later and say, okay, like, is it. Like, is it that time of the month? Is it okay? But we know better than to ever say it at that time of the month. Don't ever say it then.
- [14:48]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, people who don't believe in PMS don't have five sisters. That's just. And three daughters and 14 nieces. You know, it's like I say exactly the same thing. You know, day four of her cycle, and she just thinks it's funny. And when I say it at day 26, it's like, you bastard.
- [15:08]
Tana Amen
But do yourself a favor and never say it'll be better in a couple days. Just don't ever say that.
- [15:16]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Thank God it was never a huge problem with you. I write about it and. Change your brain, change your life.
- [15:25]
Tana Amen
No, no, no. Let's take that back. I knew the difference was, I was aware that it Was me.
- [15:30]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, me.
- [15:31]
Tana Amen
So I wanted to go away. It's like, let me just be alone for the next.
- [15:37]
Dr. Daniel Amen
But I have treated people who've attacked
- [15:39]
Tana Amen
their husbands with, oh, no, no, I just.
- [15:41]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I withdrew or got suicidal. I mean, it really changes. But the whole point in the Internet troll thing is you don't know may not be about you.
- [15:53]
Tana Amen
It's not.
- [15:54]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I think it's always good when you get feedback to assess it because it may be helpful. It's like, oh, could I do that better? When we started the podcast together, we'd have some people, you know, quite criticize our interaction. And I think for us, we thought about it and we go, well, can we do this better? And I believe we interrupt each other less than we did before.
- [16:25]
Tana Amen
Right. Empathy is this, is this. We are a married couple and it's. We are. This isn't a produce. It's just our natural interaction. But yes, we always want to listen. But at the same time ask yourself, like, am I putting something out there with the intention of triggering people? Or is it something that is people are reacting to? And there's really not a good reason. Cause some people put stuff out there with the intention of triggering people. You see it all the time. We all do.
- [16:55]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, cause that can drive click.
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Tana Amen
It's clickbait, right?
- [16:57]
Dr. Daniel Amen
That people pay attention to negativity more. So you always think of. Consider the source. The problem on the Internet is you don't know the source. You often don't know what's real, what's not real. And for example, with my TED talks, they have almost 18 million views and they're 97% positive. So I feel really good about that. But a lot of people haven't trained their mind and they look for the ones that are not positive and they let that hurt them. So you want to be careful about that.
- [17:37]
Tana Amen
So I think a couple things you can do is ground yourself. Ask yourself if what they're saying is true or not. If it's not true, you know, then just tell yourself it's more about them than it is about me. And for me, and this is up to you. You know, some people call it censoring. I don't censor anything. That's just someone's opinion about something. If it's not hurtful, as long as it's something that is just opinion or it's helpful to the rest of my community, it can stay there. I don't care if they're agreeing with me, disagreeing with me. It doesn't matter if it's Just pure vitriol and hate. It goes, it's my page. If you don't like it, you can go find another page to follow. If it's hateful and mean and just not helping the community at all, it needs to be off my page and I block them.
- [18:20]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So boundaries is actually very important. I know you've thought about that a lot. So have you been the victim of Internet trolls? Don't take it personally. Everybody is the victim of that in the digital age. We know about. Stay true to what you believe, your message. You'll feel so much better about it. Stay with us. There are days when I need to be at my best. Whether it's back to back clinic sessions, long writing days, or just keeping up with life. That's when I take peak energy from Brain md. It gives me clean, steady energy without jitters or crashes. And I'm not the only one who loves it. It just won a 20, 20, 25 next year, beating over 500 other supplements. If you want real energy that lasts, check it out@brainmd.com and use the code podcast. 20 for 20% off. Welcome back. We've been talking about the they, them and other dragons and. And we only have one more to go. Actually, we have two more to go. Today we're gonna talk about society dragons.
- [19:52]
Tana Amen
Oh, boy.
- [19:53]
Dr. Daniel Amen
This is what just made you crazy.
- [19:58]
Tana Amen
Crazy.
- [19:59]
Dr. Daniel Amen
The pandemic. And it's the they dragons. And in the book it's, you know, there's like a dozen baseless dragons. It's what we think they think about us or they think we should think about when there really is. No, no.
- [20:23]
Tana Amen
This is the day that I, that my mother always calls me. Oh, they said this is, you know, this is what we have to do. They said this is, you know, the world is ending. They said, you know, and I just, this is why I don't watch the news. It's they, it's they.
- [20:38]
Dr. Daniel Amen
There's a herd mentality. And that's why if you go to most news sites, USA Today or the New York Times or CNN or Fox, they're basically covering the same things, which is they are deciding what's important.
- [20:55]
Tana Amen
Right? And maybe this is, maybe this is going to sound really cynical and people are going to get mad, but I like the one thing that you mentioned a long time ago, and I actually have raised, you know, my daughter and now our nieces with this idea that the masses are kind of the asses. You have to think for yourself.
- [21:11]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Did you say that?
- [21:13]
Tana Amen
I did.
- [21:13]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And do you know where I first Heard that.
- [21:15]
Tana Amen
Where?
- [21:16]
Dr. Daniel Amen
In my philosophy class at Vanguard.
- [21:19]
Tana Amen
Well, I like it.
- [21:20]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Professor Murray Dempster, he's my favorite professor, loved him. And he said, if you just pay
- [21:27]
Tana Amen
attention to group thing, group think, I don't like it.
- [21:31]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Masses are the asses, right? Because what happens is this was at a Christian school. So those of you that are like, oh, they said a bad word. No.
- [21:39]
Tana Amen
People jump on the bandwagon with one thought. And I saw this so much during all the crazy political, societal stuff. And it. And I didn't see it with one side, let's be clear. So you saw one side go to one extreme, and then I saw the other side go to the other extreme. And I was just like, what is happening right now? It's so toxic when people can't think for themselves. Like, you really need to step back and think for yourself. Do your own research. And I've always told the kids this whenever they come to me and they're like, oh, my gosh, did you see what's going on right now? And I'm like, how do you know that's true? Like, chances are it's not true. Bring me the research. Tell me why you think what you're thinking. I want to know the why behind it. Who is actually saying it? What's your source?
- [22:28]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I think now more than ever, there is so much misinformation about the pandemic and about the societal unrest, and people
- [22:38]
Tana Amen
have more tools than ever to be able to make it look real.
- [22:42]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So when someone says to you, they. What should your response be?
- [22:49]
Tana Amen
Who is they?
- [22:52]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Who are they?
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Tana Amen
Who are they? That's why I say to my mom, who are they? Who are these people you're talking, talking about?
- [22:58]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And how does it fit with who you are and what your values are? It's so important to define them, right?
- [23:10]
Tana Amen
That's the next thing I'll often say to my mom is, why does this matter? How is this going to change my day or your day? How is this going to change the world? Like what? Why does this matter right now?
- [23:19]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And as we all often say, where you bring your attention to determines how you feel. And, you know, I just hated the political divide. And I've never seen it impact my patients as much during this last election on both sides. Sides that if you didn't believe as the other person, then you're not trustworthy, then they would automatically diminish you. And, oh, no, they wouldn't.
- [23:56]
Tana Amen
They were just like, I can't be your friend anymore. Okay? Just, you know, it's like,
- [24:05]
Dr. Daniel Amen
yes, There'll be a special place in hell for you.
- [24:07]
Tana Amen
Yes. It's like, how many times I've heard that from. From people on both sides. It's like, there will be a special place in hell for if you don't. Blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, well.
- [24:19]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And we purposefully try to be apolitical because we want to help everybody.
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Tana Amen
No, that doesn't mean we don't have our own beliefs. But we really try to not get caught up in the extremes and all the vitriol and just the intensity of the craziness that goes on with the fringe.
- [24:38]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, and they actually found fringe on the left and fringe on the right have the same brain. It's rigid and it's not flexible and it's sadder. Interestingly enough, I have a new study coming out, I haven't even told you about it, on happiness. So we gave 344 people the Oxford Happiness Questionnaire and we have their scans and we've analyzed their scans.
- [25:05]
Tana Amen
Don't you think, though, being in quarantine for the better part of a year made it worse?
- [25:12]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I think isolation for some people, not everybody, makes them dry.
- [25:17]
Tana Amen
You don't think it gave people too much time to think?
- [25:20]
Dr. Daniel Amen
For some people. So the introverts love the isolation because other people stress them out.
- [25:28]
Tana Amen
Right. I tend to be like, that drains them.
- [25:32]
Dr. Daniel Amen
I loved being at home.
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Tana Amen
Right.
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Dr. Daniel Amen
Me too, with you. I mean, we had more time with the children.
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Tana Amen
I mean, I get a little bored now and then, want to get out.
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Dr. Daniel Amen
But overall, I mean, I think for people whose businesses were damaged or whose jobs were damaged, the isolation was terrible.
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Tana Amen
So I don't like being told I have to be home.
- [25:53]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You don't like being told anything? Let's just be honest.
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Tana Amen
I don't like the shutdown. I don't like being told I have to be home, but I like being home.
- [26:00]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You don't like it when anybody tells you anything?
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Tana Amen
No, I'm likely to not be very cooperative.
- [26:06]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You have the no, no, no, bad. Which we're going to talk about coming up. So taming the they, them and other dragons, the Society dragon is a big deal. What do you believe? And when someone says they, the question is, who are they? And do you respect them? Do you look up to them? Do you want to be like them? And if you don't know the Faceless dragons.
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Tana Amen
And I would take it a step further and say, what is the source? Like, not just who are they? Where are they getting this information?
- [26:47]
Dr. Daniel Amen
And these are. They're super cute. They're the other people's dragons. They're contagious. Your brain is always listening to the voices of many other dragons, including bosses, co workers, religious leaders, politicians, store clerks, news reporters, media personalities. These dragons can be critical, hurtful, attacking, competing in different where they can be encouraging, positive, comforting, and engaged. It's like all the other people in your life. And I remember when I was a grocery store clerk that I could make someone smile just by being friendly, or I can make them really angry at me if I was withdrawn in myself and a little bit snarky. But other people have a dramatic impact on how you feel. I remember when I lived in Hawaii and I loved Hawaii because I tend not to pay attention to too many people, too many other people. I'm always admiring.
- [28:03]
Tana Amen
You're always like that. No, you tend to see the positive in almost everything.
- [28:07]
Dr. Daniel Amen
But the person I was with at the time just had to leave because she felt the racism against Caucasians. Because Hawaii is. Is an Asian culture. And if you're not Hawaiian or Asian, you sort of less than other people.
- [28:28]
Tana Amen
Interesting. But you are a person who chooses. Like I joke that you have Mickey and Minnie in your head doing the waltz. It's the happiest place on earth because literally something truly crazy can be going on around us and you're like, oh, it's not that bad. Like, oh, it's going to be fine. Like, you are one of those people. So it's pretty Pollyanna in there.
- [28:49]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So I'm going to actually give you guys a skill. This is the one to write down. I was talking about it in our huddle this morning. Many of you know Ariana Grande and her song. Thank you. Next. Well, if you think about that, I think how she was meaning it is a little different in the black widow sense, but the essence of mental health. And I developed this, and I'm not really sure where I developed it, but being a shrink for 40 years, you know, I try to pay attention to good mental habits. Is that that's actually a very important psychological principle. And so, for example, you had to file bankruptcy and it was very painful and very hard. But your tendency is not to look bad back with regret, but to go, what's next?
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Tana Amen
Responsibility.
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Dr. Daniel Amen
It's how can I respond to this situation? And too many people get stuck in what other people think of them.
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Tana Amen
Yeah, I learned.
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Dr. Daniel Amen
But what's really helpful is when something's not working is to say thank you, bless it, and then look forward to whatever's next.
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Tana Amen
So when you have teenagers, you learn all these Little things. And one of the most simple ones I learned. You know, teenagers have this way, they have this funny way of saying bye bye when something, when they're like done with something, it's like bye bye. So bye bye.
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Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, and one of the things a lot of parents get very sad at is emptiness.
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Tana Amen
Oh, don't even start. Did you. You just had to go there?
- [30:34]
Dr. Daniel Amen
Well, I think it's really important. One of my sister in laws, her children, grandchildren moved across the country and it's so devastating, but it's because she looks back rather than forward.
- [30:53]
Tana Amen
Yeah. The only thing keeping me from sort of losing my mind over that is I'm looking forward for my daughter. I'm like excited for her to start her life. Otherwise I would just be. Last year was really hard for me because she was at that phase where she was pulling away from me. We were attached at the hip for so long and I mean we did everything together. Literally. She was in my lap like all the time, even as a teenager. And then bam. She just was like ready to fly. And I'm like, but I'm not ready for you to fly. So that year was really painful.
- [31:27]
Dr. Daniel Amen
So you weren't able to do thank you next.
- [31:30]
Tana Amen
Not for about a year. It took me and I knew it wasn't her though. The good thing was I knew and it's not easy. No. So I knew it wasn't her. So I had to do that work on myself. It was really painful. So I had to do that work on myself and remind myself this is her life. And so now the thing that she's getting ready to leave for college, what I remind myself is it's her time to fly. This is exciting. This is an exciting time for her. So whenever I start to get that little funk, you know, inside it's like, this is an exciting time for her. I'm going to get lots of air miles. So I think about the positives.
- [32:03]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You're always going to stay connected to her. But if you stay too connected when she's trying to separate, you'll damage.
- [32:15]
Tana Amen
Well, and she'll be resentful. Right.
- [32:17]
Dr. Daniel Amen
You'll damage yourself and you'll damage the relationship. So admitting when things are over and I mean, I remember before I met you, I got my heart broken and I just couldn't move on, which was a horrible place to be. But one of my friends said I got my heart broken open. I mean, I think I did.
- [32:40]
Tana Amen
I like that.
- [32:40]
Dr. Daniel Amen
That's a good psychological work on my cell through that pain. But shout out Ariana Grande because it's really a very important psychological principle that you know, and it goes with the Serenity Prayer. It's just a cooler way of saying the Serenity Prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Struggling with your mental health? At Amen Clinics, we use brain imaging and personalized care to help you heal at 11 locations Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, D.C. los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, New York, Orange County, California, Seattle and Scottsdale. Visit amenclinics.com we'll see you next time. Take care.