Live Like Aubreigh: A Mother’s Mission After Tragedy

Summary

Change Your Brain Every Day: "Live Like Aubreigh: A Mother’s Mission After Tragedy"

Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: Dr. Daniel Amen & Tana Amen
Guest: Heather Wyatt, founder of the Aubrey Wyatt Foundation

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Episode Overview

This deeply moving episode centers on Heather Wyatt’s journey through unimaginable tragedy: losing her 13-year-old daughter, Aubrey, to suicide. Together with Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen, Heather recounts Aubrey’s story—her vibrant personality, the bullying she endured, and the warning signs that were missed. Heather opens up about her pursuit of healing for herself and her family, the process of turning pain into purpose, and her mission of mental health advocacy through the Aubrey Wyatt Foundation. The discussion examines bullying, social media’s dark impacts, grief, therapy, and practical advice for families enduring similar losses.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aubrey’s Life and Personality (03:24–04:00)

• Heather describes Aubrey as “outgoing, bubbly, [with a] laugh all the time, silly… always had the funniest pranks.”
• Aubrey was close with her siblings, often acting as a second mother to her little brother.

Quote:
“She was very outgoing, very bubbly, laugh all the time, silly... always had the funniest pranks.”
—Heather Wyatt, (03:37)

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2. Bullying and Its Consequences (04:03–06:22)

• Prolonged bullying began in 5th grade: “They would make videos about her, pick on her, have slumber parties from which she was excluded, then try to be friends again.”
• The perpetrators sometimes included people Aubrey initially considered friends.
• Bullying became physical at times; she was called names, targeted in group chats, and developed deep feelings of worthlessness.

Quote:
“I think over time, that wearing down along with mental health... she began to not value herself. She began to not find worth and felt unwanted and unneeded.”
—Heather Wyatt, (05:15)

• Aubrey’s gentle, forgiving nature may have made her a continuing target: “She didn’t lash out... it also put herself in a situation to continue to allow to be that target.” (06:29–06:37)

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3. Challenges with School and Seeking Help (07:05–09:49)

• Heather, a teacher in the same district, “was also limited with how aggressive I could be.”
• School and administrative responses were often inadequate: “Teachers would email, say their hands were tired... went through every avenue... it just wasn’t enough.” (07:06–07:55)
• Aubrey struggled with anxiety and depression, especially after being bullied and sexually assaulted by a boy at a baseball game; resources for mental health care were limited in Mississippi.
• Aubrey was on a low dose of an SSRI for anxiety; doubt is later cast about the appropriateness of this medication for her.

Quote:
“She was on a wait list to go into that next phase while being maintained by her pediatrician.”
—Heather Wyatt, (09:17)

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4. The Day Everything Changed: September 4, 2023 (13:30–17:15)

• Heather shares a traumatic and detailed account of discovering Aubrey had died by suicide. There were no clear warning signs or suicide plans expressed in advance.
• Aubrey had posted draft videos in the hours before her death, including one to the song lyric, “no, it’s for the better,” while crying.

Memorable Moment:
“I tried to do CPR on her and... Taylor was screaming at me to stop... I remember begging God to take me...”
—Heather Wyatt, (13:43 & 17:10)

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5. Reflections on Grief, Guilt, and the Nature of Suicide (18:11–21:17)

• Heather recounts feeling lost and the challenge of navigating her children’s emotions while dealing with her own devastation.
• Dr. Amen and Tana stress that suicide is often a result of illness winning, not a failure of character or parenting.
• The burden of guilt and “automatic negative thoughts” (ANTs) in surviving loved ones is profound.
• The importance of therapy and mental health support is emphasized for the whole family.

Quote:
“Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary feeling.”
—Dr. Daniel Amen, (18:51)

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6. Seeking Healing: Therapy, Tools, and Community

• Heather, Taylor, and Riker all entered therapy post-tragedy, but the process was complicated further by legal and school battles.
• Moving homes within the same town helped; “it just felt like a dark place.” (21:19)
• Descriptions of helpful and less-helpful things people say to those grieving.

Quote:
“Some days those waves are going to push you under... some days the waves are a little less.”
—Heather Wyatt, on grief, (21:40)

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7. Medication, Brain Health, and The Right Interventions (23:36–25:47)

• Dr. Amen critiques the quick prescription of SSRIs for children: “If she started with low activity, it can disinhibit her and create a disaster.” (24:11)
• He discusses alternative approaches (e.g., Wellbutrin, saffron) and the need to look at an individual’s brain before prescribing.

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8. The Power of Mindset: Challenging Guilt and Building Hope (33:19–35:34)

• Dr. Amen introduces Byron Katie’s process for questioning persistent negative thoughts, challenging Heather’s belief that she’ll “never be whole” again.
• Discussion of the need to process not only grief, but also anger and rage—“One of the things that drives both physical and emotional pain is repressed rage”—and to find healthy outlets for these emotions.

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9. Processing Trauma: Tools and Recommendations (37:44–41:12)

• The hosts and Heather discuss EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) and havening as powerful therapeutic tools for trauma.
• Tana shares a personal story of grief and the transformative effect of EMDR: “It’s like a shortcut through therapy almost... but the conflict went away.” (41:47)
• Resources for finding EMDR therapists are given (emdria.org).

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10. The Impact of Social Media and Cell Phones (43:59–44:49)

• Dr. Amen views smartphones and social media as “a Trojan horse that got unleashed on our society... and all the studies that have come out are bad.”
• Early access to phones/screen time is tied to increased risk for anxiety and suicide.

Quote:
“It’s not that you have access to the world, it’s that the world has access to you.”
—Dr. Daniel Amen, (44:38)

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11. Heather’s Mission: The Aubrey Wyatt Foundation and ‘Live Like Aubrey’ (30:36–32:01, 50:24–52:54)

• The “Live Like Aubrey” movement started with a fundraiser T-shirt and went viral. Its message: choose kindness and compassion, even in hardship.
• The Aubrey Wyatt Foundation provides mental health resources, a directory of therapists by state, information for parents, and grants to cover therapy costs. Long-term goals include establishing therapy centers for teens.
• Heather shares the message she hopes resonates: “If my pain could have purpose... if I could make sure that one other family did not have to go through what I was going through, then I could be okay.”

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12. Advice for Families, Survivors, and Struggling Kids (27:08–29:30, 49:01–50:12)

• Therapy is essential for families after tragedy.
• Parents must also focus on their own healing, as “they’ll be okay if you’re okay.” (29:18)
• For kids who feel alone: “If your parents aren’t those parents, you need to find someone you can talk to.” (49:51)

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13. Memorable Quotes & Healing Wisdom

• “Automatic negative thoughts... will infest you when your hormones are a little bit off or you haven’t slept or times of stress. And you need to become a master ant killer.”
  —Dr. Daniel Amen, (47:56)

• “Sometimes the illness wins, just like with cancer.”
  —Dr. Daniel Amen, (42:44)

• “Just because you have a thought doesn’t mean it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s helpful.”
  —Dr. Daniel Amen, (55:14)

• “It’s not going to stay that way... pain can turn into purpose, and so it can change so radically, but you’ve got to give it that chance to change and you’ve got to reach out.”
  —Co-host, (56:36)

• “I may not see Aubrey Earth side ever again, but I will see her heaven side... Aubrey’s legacy, the work I’m doing, is helping other people, and God’s allowing something good to come from all of it.”
  —Heather Wyatt, (45:53)

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Important Resources & Links

• Aubrey Wyatt Foundation: aubreywyattfoundation.com
• 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Call or text 988 for immediate help
• EMDR Therapy Directory: emdria.org
• Havening Technique: havening.org
• Heather Wyatt on Social Media: Facebook, TikTok, YouTube (@Heather Wyatt)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Aubrey’s Story: 03:24–04:00
• The Bullying: 04:03–06:22
• Seeking Help and System Shortcomings: 07:05–09:49
• The Day of the Tragedy: 13:30–17:15
• Processing Grief and Guilt: 18:11–21:17
• Medication & Brain Health Discussion: 23:36–25:47
• Challenging Negative Thoughts: 33:19–35:34
• EMDR and Healing Trauma: 37:44–41:12
• The Impact of Social Media: 43:59–44:49
• Foundation’s Mission: 30:36–32:01; 50:24–52:54
• Advice for Families and Struggling Kids: 27:08–29:30; 49:01–50:12

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Conclusion

This episode offers a faithfully honest, sometimes raw discussion of loss, survival, and activism amid the mental health crisis facing today’s youth and families. Heather Wyatt’s story, and her drive to create change in Aubrey’s memory, illuminate both the dangers of a digitally connected world for children and the hope that can be forged from tragedy. Through practical tools, challenging stigma, and supporting each other, healing and prevention are possible.

If you or someone you know is struggling, reach out—help is available.

Transcript

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So on September 4, 2023, you and your family's life changed forever.

[Heather Wyatt]

The Ocean Springs School District is mourning.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

The loss of one of its students. Today.

[Heather Wyatt]

Parts are heavy at the Ocean Springs Middle School. The school district says one of its.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Students, eighth grader Aubrey Wyatt, has died. Share with us what you remember about that day.

[Heather Wyatt]

I found Aubrey. Now we know she had been gone for a few hours, but it doesn't process in your head. So I was trying to do CPR on her and. And Taylor was screaming at me to stop. She was like, you can't. And the police and ambulance and everything showed up. It was chaotic. I remember begging God to take me. I came out of the room and the coroner went in there. It was a lot.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

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[Dr. Daniel Amen]

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[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Welcome to the Change youe Brain Everyday podcast. We are very excited to have Heather Wyatt, who is a devoted mom to Taylor and Riker and the proud mother of Aubrey, whose life and legacy inspired the creation of the Aubrey Wyatt Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting teens and families through therapy, resources and mental health awareness. Following the tragic loss of her 13 year old daughter, Heather turned her grief into purpose, sharing her story to break stigmas and bring hope to others. With over 3 million social media followers, she inspires and reminds people daily that they are never alone. Heather is also an upcoming author working on a memoir that chronicles her journey of faith, resilience and advocacy. Welcome to the Change your Brain Every Day podcast.

[Heather Wyatt]

Thank you. It's good to be here. Thank you.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

All the way from Mississippi, you're just deeply honored. Would you be open to sharing a bit about your daughter? What Was. She was, like, as a person, she.

[Heather Wyatt]

Was very outgoing, very bubbly, laugh all the time, silly. Um, always had the funniest pranks. Um, she's very close with all of us. Um, she. And she almost acted like a second mama to her little brother. And then her and her sister were very close. They were close in age and just also close to each other.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So tell us the story of what happened.

[Heather Wyatt]

Um, so Aubrey experienced bullying. Um, from the time she was in fifth grade, it was on and off. It would be individual. She was close with, that she would consider a friend, and then they would lash out. They would make videos about her, they would pick on her. They would have, like, slumber parties and then tell her, oh, you can't come. And then the next week, they would be friends with her again. And through our faith, something we had always taught is just forgiveness, kindness, compassion. And so initially when this started, we thought, oh, maybe this is just some teenager stuff. But it continued to a point that I told Aubrey she could no longer stay the night with these people, that they weren't good friends, that, you know, I needed to step in and make those decisions. But it escalated. It continued.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

At school.

[Heather Wyatt]

She would get physically assaulted by them, and then she got to a point where she was scared to tell because she would say that they were going to call her snitches and things like that. They would call her vulgar names, make group chats about her, and then a week later, be her friend or attempt to be her friend. And it went on a long time. So I think over time, that wearing down along with mental health and things like that, she began to not value herself. She began to not find worth and felt unwanted and unneeded. She felt like there was no way out.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Why were they targeting. Did you know why they were targeting Aubrey?

[Heather Wyatt]

I don't. I don't. I think some of it is just that inner girl jealousy, that inner girl, group, mean girl thing that they do among each other.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Because when I was doing my research, she looks like a very cute, normal girl her age.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. Yeah, she would. She was your typical average teenager. Beautiful.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Just.

[Heather Wyatt]

I think that within that age, there's a lot of jealousy and wanting to be better than the other. And I think also they. They have things going on in their personal lives that we may not know about. And Aubrey was an easy target. She didn't last.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What did we say earlier? Hurt people.

[Heather Wyatt]

Hurt people.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And if you dare heal from what? Hershey. You bleed on people who didn't.

[Heather Wyatt]

Absolutely. He. Yes. And I think the Fact that Aubrey didn't lash out, she didn't get back at them. She.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So she didn't really stand up for herself with them.

[Heather Wyatt]

No. And she continued to forgive them. And it's a good quality, but it also put herself in a situation, I think, to continue to allow to be that target. Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And there is a point where.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

It's okay to draw boundaries.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right. Right. And I think that that's hard. I mean, as a teenager, you just. You just want your friends and knowing where to draw that boundary and understand, okay, this isn't a friend. This is actually someone that's trying to hurt me and. And make me feel less than I am. So I think.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What was that like for you?

[Heather Wyatt]

It was hard. It was hard, especially because I was a teacher in the same school district that she was in. So when I would advocate for her or ask them to do things, I was also limited with how aggressive I could be with my approach. So I would reach out to the principals, our superintendents, the teachers. The teachers knew. They would email, they would say that their hands were tired, which, as a teacher, I completely understand. All you can do is send it up the ladder. And so for me, it was heartbreaking. I reached out to the parents. I went through every avenue that I knew possible at the time to do, to try to help her, and it just wasn't enough.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Did you see any signs?

[Heather Wyatt]

I did not. I will say her seventh grade year, she. She struggled a lot with anxiety and depression due to this. She had been sexually assaulted by a young boy at a. At a baseball game. We had reported that as well. I think in the school, said that because it was there, it was up to them. There were just so many things that I also was unaware of as far as what I could do, and assumed that the school had my child's best interest at heart. And so seventh grade was rough. That was when a lot of the bullying and things were going on. And when seventh grade ended, we went into summer, and she was so happy. I mean, literally a couple of days before she passed away, she was picking out Christmas gifts. She was picking out vanities. She seemed happy. She had just started eighth grade. She'd been in eighth grade one month. So for us, seventh grade, she. She did have that anxiety, depression. We knew it was bullying school year.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Did she see somebody for the anxiety?

[Heather Wyatt]

She did. So she saw her pediatrician regularly, and then she saw counselors, therapists on and off since she was in fifth grade. We would increase as needed, decrease. And she had started one just because she had hit teenage years. She needed to see someone that was more experienced in that. So I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but in Mississippi, there's not a lot of resources, and there's definitely not a lot of pediatric therapist counselors. So she was on a wait list to go into that next phase while being maintained by her pediatrician. She had actually just gone into July to her pediatrician for a checkup, waiting on that wait list to be seen by someone.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And was she on medication?

[Heather Wyatt]

She was. She was. Low dose of anxiety medicine. I want to say 5 milligrams.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Do you remember what it was?

[Heather Wyatt]

I want to say Prozac, but I'm not positive on that. It was a. I believe it was with a P. So I want to say Prozac, but I would have to go back and look.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Was it an SSRI? It was, yeah, it was an SSRI, um, which in some PIBs can disinhibit them.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

There's concern about using those in adolescence. And it has a black box warning.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That may increase.

[Heather Wyatt]

Something we found out after. Now, I will say.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The pediatrician didn't tell you that.

[Heather Wyatt]

No, no. I think where Aubry was at in seventh grade, that was probably our best option. And then we went into Summer, and Aubrey did seem, I guess, better. So we assume, oh, it's the medicine working. Well, little do we know it's because she's not in school, she's not around the kids anymore. And I think that's a tough thing, too, with the social media, is you're at school all day. You used to be able to go home, and if you were being targeted or bullied, it ended it.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Oh, no.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And now it's worse, just like you said.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Kids make videos.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Well, it's worse because now they're not being monitored.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right, right, exactly.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because I'm also a child psychiatrist, and when I started, there was no social media, no cell phones, and there was none of this mass bullying. Right. With social media, you can get fame, but you can also get a lot of shame.

[Heather Wyatt]

And.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And you can get shame by potentially toxic. Right. It's almost like bullying square or exponentially. You feel exponentially assaulted. Because it's not just that friend group, it's all of the friends of the friend.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And all of the friends of the friends of the friend group.

[Heather Wyatt]

The comments, the likes, the being attacked online at that point there.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Is that what she was feeling?

[Heather Wyatt]

Oh, yeah, definitely. And at one point, because I'd reach out, she even would Send their parents the videos. They knew what their kids were doing.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Did you ever get any support from the parents that they were doing anything?

[Heather Wyatt]

They were not? Nothing. And I think that was for me as an adult with a developed brain, that was hard. So I can only imagine what it felt like for Aubrey undergoing to think, oh my gosh, this is never going to end. They're not going to stop. Their parents are going to make them stop, the school's not going to make them stop.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And she has an older sibling. Did the older sibling ever experience anything like that?

[Heather Wyatt]

No. I think that Taylor hung out with a different dynamic of children. And so for Taylor, I don't think that she experienced it because of the children she was hanging out with. We live in a very small town, everyone knows everyone type of thing.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So there weren't a lot of school choices?

[Heather Wyatt]

Oh, no, no. There's one elementary, there's one middle school and there's one high school.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So on September 4, 2023, you and your family's life changed forever. Share with us what you remember about that day.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

That that's like you just had. That's like an anniversary.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. Oh yeah. We just had her two year anniversary. It was awful. Awful. Screaming, crying. I found Aubrey. It was traumatic. I. She now we know she had been gone for a few hours, but that didn't. Doesn't process in your head. So I was. Tried to do CPR on her and. And Taylor was screaming at me to stop. She was like, you can't. And the police and ambulance and everything showed up. It was chaotic. I remember begging God to take me. I remember just being angry. Once I came out of the room and the corner went in there. It was a lot.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What was the morning like? Go through the day with me.

[Heather Wyatt]

So it was Labor Day. I'd woken up. I always did a home workout in the morning, so nothing seemed off. It was rounds seven when I woke up. I sat on the couch, got everything ready, started my workout and I got high, which wouldn't have been like out of the ordinary, but normally Aubrey in the middle of the night would always go turn the air down and she liked it colder. So when I would work out, it would already be cold. So I was like, oh, that's so weird.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So you noticed something off Right away.

[Heather Wyatt]

I was like, why? I'm working out. I'm getting hotter than like.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So the routine was off.

[Heather Wyatt]

And so our living room and hallway connected. So I went to go to turn the air on in the hallway and kind of like the peripheral I saw her and well, and I. I saw her vanity on the floor and my first thought was this child already thinks she's getting her vanity because that's what she'd been picking out for Christmas. So I was like, oh my goodness. And then I turn and saw her and ran and started screaming. And then Taylor came and Taylor had to help me cut her down. Thank God Riker was in the far end of the house. God's blessings. He didn't hear anything. He was on his iPad. That's what he did when I work out. I was like, this is your iPad time. Thank God, because he didn't hear anything. And chaos.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So she had passed away in the middle of the night.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. They think that it was about 2:00am it was about 10 when I found her. So I'd gotten up at 7, did everything. Started that like 9:45 to 10. And when they got there and.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And she never talked about a plan. She never talked about it at all?

[Heather Wyatt]

Never.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Do you think she was on social media in the middle of the night?

[Heather Wyatt]

I do. Had. She had posted. They were in her draft. She had two videos and we've shared them on my social media since then. And it just said no. It was to a song that said, no, it's for the better. And it was her crying and it was. It was 9:3, so it was couple hours before she. Did.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You notice anything different the night before dinner or.

[Heather Wyatt]

Nothing. Nothing. We had. That was. She had been.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So you have no idea what triggered it?

[Heather Wyatt]

I don't, I don't. I don't know if she saw a video. I don't know if it had just been building up and she had just kept a straight face all summer. I. I don't. I don't know what happened.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

That's got to be very hard not understanding.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And feeling like you don't.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

You didn't see or know or.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

We are so sorry.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

I. I can't.

[Heather Wyatt]

I. Thank you.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

I have no words as a mom.

[Heather Wyatt]

I mean, we went through her phone. We had her phone sent off. I mean we've. We've obviously found things, but nothing that was specific to that night that would have been like a trigger. I just tried to tell myself that impulsivity. It takes 10 seconds to make a.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Decision that lasts forever.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know what I've told my patients suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary feeling.

[Heather Wyatt]

It is. And.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And it doesn't just affect you.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It affects all the people you love. So if you hate all the people you love, do this.

[Heather Wyatt]

I think it's hard, though, when even as an adult. So I struggle with my mental health after Aubrey passed and as an adult with those thoughts was. It was hard because you don't. In your immediate thought, you're. You literally don't think outside of that. You're not considering.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's like your brain gets in a tunnel.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And the tunnel has no windows and no doors.

[Heather Wyatt]

That is so even in the normal.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Grief that happens, Counselor.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, he'll break through some of that and go. If you do this, you've just increase the risk of Riker and Taylor doing it because you're teaching them. This is how grown ups solve problems.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And we've had two people now do it.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That's why counseling's so important, to just get out of your own head.

[Heather Wyatt]

And. And so.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So even in normal grief. Normal grief is so hard. Oh, now you add the trauma and the loss of a child.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes. And the. Yes. It was a lot to. It took a long time to be able to fully grieve and almost. But immediately after Aubrey passed out, I knew the importance of therapy, so I immersed myself, the children into that. But then it became battles within the school district and then legal battles. And for a year and a half, it was constant fighting with systems because of what had happened with Aubrey. And so in the midst of grieving, in the midst of parenting, then I'm fighting legal battles, I'm fighting schools. I left teaching it my whole world.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

When you lose a child, there are so many things.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. It was such a combination of train wreck. It was an utter train wreck because it was just one thing after another. To a point, you're like, why? What's the point? Like, what's the goal here? Like, what am I supposed to be doing?

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And are you still living in the same way place?

[Heather Wyatt]

No, we. Well, we still live in the same city, but we did move houses and I think that that did help. I think for some that maybe they don't need that. I think for us it just felt like a dark place.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What are some things people said or did that were helpful after the loss?

[Heather Wyatt]

One thing that really stuck out is another person that had gone through similar things said that grieving is like you're in the water with a buoy and the waves are just coming and coming. And some days those waves are going to push you under and you're going to come up and you're going to try to catch your breath and you're not going to be able to. And then some days the Waves are a little less. There's always going to be waves. You're always going to be treading water now. But some days are easier than others. And that on those hard days, I remind myself, okay, this is a day that the waves are just going to keep coming.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So equally important, what are some of the things that people have said that you wish they hadn't said that weren't helpful?

[Heather Wyatt]

I don't know that I wish they wouldn't have said it because I know their attention was good. But, like, she's in a better place. Well, I know, but I'm still hurting, but I know they mean well.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Did you guys go to church? Do you have a face?

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes, we've always been immersed in church. We, you know, like went to Baptists and things like that, and we've kind of just ended up in non denominational. But yes, we are big in a church. Aubrey was actually at a church retreat the summer before she passed. That was her first, like big away win. And it was wonderful actually for her. But yes, being a church, our faith is.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

She's in a better place. She is in a better place. At least for me.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

She.

[Heather Wyatt]

Oh, yes. Well, and that is one thing helps.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And sometimes the illness wins.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. If she had cancer, you would feel awful and you would grin.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes. Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But you would feel different, right? Because you would go, well, that's not a choice.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And. But suicide is often the illness when.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And you know, I'm not a huge fan of SSRIs for children, especially if you don't look at their brains. See, what we do here is if we would have seen her, we would have went, let's look at your brain.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And our SSRI is the right thing. And if you have a really busy brain, they're the right thing. But Tana got depressed in her Prozac. It was the wrong med when she had thyroid cancer. And it was the absolute thing for her. And for some people, she's a sleepy brain. And what Prozac does, or Zoloft or Lexapro or all the SSRIs. Serotonin is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, calms things down. Well, if she started with low activity, that's interesting. It can disinhibit her and create a disaster.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

If someone has a busy brain, it can be magical.

[Heather Wyatt]

So what do. If you don't mind me asking, what was the solution if not a SSR or.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So maybe it would have been something like Wellbutrin, which is more stimulating antidepressant. Or I love saffron. And saffron in 28 randomized controlled trials showed to be equally effective as antidepressants, but without those kinds of side effects.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

But of course we don't know because we weren't.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

We're not able to tell you.

[Heather Wyatt]

No. But it's great to have that knowledge, especially with, with my experience.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But one of the reasons I love talking to you is the mission I have is to end the concept of mental illness by creating a revolution in brain health. And I always think about four big circles. You know, what's going on in her brain, what's the biology, what's the psychology? So she had a lot of, we call them ants, automatic negative thoughts, the thoughts that come into her mind and she didn't learn how to control them.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I talk about killing ants. Right. And then there's the social circle. She's being bullied. That likely, as you said, the trigger when you feel ostracized.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And there's a spiritual circle. So why do you think you're on the planet? Why do you care? But you gave her a spiritual foundation. So odds are social and bio problems, psychological issues.

[Heather Wyatt]

And.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And you said something else that's really important is she was sexually assaulted and so that trauma can disrupt her brain.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right. Is there a history in your family of depression, Mom's side, dad's side?

[Heather Wyatt]

Not really. I think like myself, I've, I've struggled more like postpartum and more so after the fact. But not that we're aware of. Doesn't mean. No.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But not that substance abuse.

[Heather Wyatt]

No.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah. So you know the hard, hard to know. What would you recommend to families who've gone through this?

[Heather Wyatt]

First is definitely therapy is needed. I think that it's almost impossible to be able to navigate those feelings while navigating your children's feelings without help. There's just no way that I would have known the things to say, the ways to help them when I didn't know myself.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Well, I think that, you know, a parent losing a child is. I can't even begin to imagine. And then the way you lost her is so hard. How, how are the other children doing?

[Heather Wyatt]

I think that they're doing better. Of course, with the two year mark, everyone's kind of. It's been rough, but I think in general they're starting to be with their friends again. They're engaged in sports again. They're returning to their lives. I know that there will always be an emptiness there, but I see them socializing again and getting out of the house.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

How long does it take them?

[Heather Wyatt]

Taylor didn't leave the house for over a year. She would go to school. She would not stay the night anywhere. And then Riker being so young, same school he was in Ocean. He's in private school now. We. We did pull him out. Taylor was so close to graduating that she did not want to change schools and disrupt her path. Disagreed. But I wanted that to be something she was confident in. And she hasn't had any problems. So she is.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, she had her own.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

She had a good friend.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And if she would have had to change school schools, that means she would have lost not only her sister.

[Heather Wyatt]

Exactly. And that was a big thing is she said, I've lost enough and I don't.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And that's fair.

[Heather Wyatt]

Want to lose anymore. So. But I think that they're. They're maintaining there. There's always going to be those moments that they struggle more and then.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Well, and the big thing is you.

[Heather Wyatt]

Have to be okay. Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So you have to take care of you.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

You've got to do what you need to do.

[Heather Wyatt]

Absolutely.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

It's the most important thing. Because they'll be okay if you're okay.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes. Yes. And which. That is one thing I've noticed. They definitely can feed off of my.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Energy because it's going to make them afraid.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right. And so that is one thing that I've tried to. We're okay. Let's talk about it. Like, if Riker gets emotional the other day he was crying and he was like, I'm sorry. I'm like, no, no, you're allowed to cry. All the tears are all the hugs you wish you could give Aubrey. So just letting him know that it is okay to be sad too, but, you know, allowing those moments and then picking up and you gotta go back to basketball and baseball. You gotta keep living.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Hydration is more than just water. Your brain needs the right balance of electrolytes. I add smart electrolytes to my water every morning.

[Heather Wyatt]

Morning.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

For fast hydration, brain support, and all day energy. There's no sugar, just clean ingredients. Try [e-mail] with code podcast. 20 for 20% off. So you started the hashtag ll law llaw.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. So live like Aubrey Wyatt.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Live like Aubrey Wyatt.

[Heather Wyatt]

I never. I didn't. I had no idea things would end up where they are with social media and how big things got. I had no idea. Initially, after Aubry passed, I had a friend call and say, hey, we're gonna try to sell some shirts to try to help with fundraising costs. I was listening a mom teacher. So I was like, sure, you know, I think that would be great. She said, do you want to do forever 13 or do you want to do live like Aubry? And I was like, let's do live like Aubrey because I want her name remembered. Just thinking, this is going to stay in our small town. Well, then the shirt said Live like Aubrey. And then as it continued to expand and reach different levels on social media, it became her full name, Live like Aubrey Wyatt. And it just soared. And it just. I think to me it just meant, you know, despite it all, be kind, despite it all, be compassionate. Despite it all. Like, no matter what she was going through, she was smiling and happy and she was. She didn't lash out. She didn't bully back. She wasn't cruel back. So for me, I think that's what the live like Aubrey means, is to just continue to live in grace and compassion.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

But for it to have taken off like it did, it means there's. It's touching a nerve. It's touching a nerve, and there's some sort of need. Who. Who are people that are. That are following, that are reaching out to you, that are leaving comments?

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes. So tons and tons and tons of teenagers, moms, parents. I've had so many young people reach out and say, you saved me. I've seen your story, and I don't want to do this to my mom, and I can't do this to my family. I've had so many parents reach out and say, because of what you've shared, I'm looking more into this with my child. I'm checking their phones, I'm checking their social media. I'm taking their mental health more seriously. I'm not just downplaying it. Absolutely. And I. And I said that from the beginning is that if my pain could have purpose and if I could just make sure that one other family did not have to go through what I was going through, then I could. I could be okay. I'd never be good again. But I could find some grace in this. And that's already happened. And so it continues to see.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I would challenge that thought. I'll never be good.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I would challenge that because it wasn't your choice.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And yes, you love her and will always love her, but that wasn't your choice. And one of the things I do with my patients is. So let's write that down.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I'll never be good and then go. This is from the work of my friend Byron. Katie. Is that true? You'll Never be good.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Can you know more than God?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And the second question, was that absolutely true? Which would be no. How does that thought make you feel? I'll never be good.

[Heather Wyatt]

I think I told myself. I don't. I don't know. Because in my eye, I mean, I'll never be good, never be complete, never be whole. But I guess in that is taking that away. And I don't know what the future holds. I don't know what God has to replenish me with. I don't know. Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But it makes you feel bad.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And how would you feel. How would you feel if you didn't have that thought?

[Heather Wyatt]

I would be great, but it's hard to not.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You'd feel better.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so my favorite one is the fifth question. So it's. Is it true?

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Is it absolutely true? How does the thought make me feel? How would I feel if I didn't have the thought?

[Heather Wyatt]

Great.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Then you take the original thought, I'll never be whole, and you just turn it to the opposite.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I will be whole. And that's where you meditate. You question the thought. And when you start questioning them, they don't have to stay. But if you don't question them, you believe them. And then you act as if it's true.

[Heather Wyatt]

Hello.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

As a mom, and I'm listening to you go through that little exercise. Am I picking up some guilt? Like you almost feel like you can't let it go, like you can't be whole, like you can't. That's what I'm picking up.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

You're. I could feel you holding on to it, like I'm not allowed to be whole.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I would just challenge it.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because I think God would want you to be whole.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

God doesn't want this for you.

[Heather Wyatt]

I. I agree. I don't think that God does it all. I do think that evil exists in the world. 100 and so I think that.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

But that's not from God.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. No. No. So I think that it's just one of those battles where.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Absolutely.

[Heather Wyatt]

Who am I going to listen to?

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

But. But as a mom, I'm picking up that you are. You can't let that go because I don't deserve it.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I have a new book coming out in December called change your brain, change your pain.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And it's about the intersection of physical and emotional pain because they run on the same circuits in the brain. And I mean, it's clearly emotional pain for you and for her. But one of the things that drives Both physical and emotional pain is repressed rage. And you've got to have a lot of.

[Heather Wyatt]

A lot of that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Aubrey was nice.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Even though probably internally she was furious.

[Heather Wyatt]

Oh, yeah. And.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But she ended up turning it on herself.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so one of the lessons is when you're angry, you have to find ways to express it. Tana's got two black belts, martial arts.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

It's so empowering. No hitting big padded men. There's no therapy like it.

[Heather Wyatt]

I love that. That is wonderful. I will say, to add in that. So prior to Aubrey passing, I worked out. And so that was one thing to kind of. I no longer do that. It's. I don't know. It reminds me of that day.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So maybe find something.

[Heather Wyatt]

So that is where. The past several months, I have tried to attempt to. I wanted to try to work out because I was like, oh, this would actually be great. But it was too much of a trauma response, I guess, immediately.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Have they ever. Your therapist helped you with, like, simple techniques to deal with the trauma?

[Heather Wyatt]

We. We have tried a few. Some have worked. There was one, and I couldn't get the image out of my head. I struggled with that. I had nightmares. And it was wonderful. It. She was like, I just need you to create a container. Whatever you want. Close your eyes. We did all this. Put the image in the container. It took so long. I thought it would be so easy, and it took so long. It was lots of tears and talking through that, and it just felt like I was shoving Aubrey away when I was putting. But she's like, you're not. You're just shoving that image. You're putting it there until you can deal with it in little pieces. And not the. So, like, things like that, I think have helped.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But have you ever tried emdr?

[Heather Wyatt]

I have not. I've heard great things. I've.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's phenomenal because I don't want you shoving away any of the.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I want you to go into them so that you can take the energy out of them.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So it's not the same thing. I'm not even beginning to say that this is the same thing, because I have a daughter, so I can't even begin to imagine. But when my mom passed away, I grew up in a very crazy environment.

[Heather Wyatt]

Traumatic.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And I was very close to my mom. But when she passed away, I had so many conflicted emotions, and I couldn't sort of grieve cleanly.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Because there's so much anger and conflict mixed in with the love and the.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

I'm like I can't get this straight. And so I was very frustrated and I did. And I've done EMDR before for my. My past. But when I did the emdr, the craziest thing happened, and it happened pretty fast. I was able to resolve that conflict so that now, when it's not like the memories go away, they don't. So rather than putting them in a container, they're there. But I'm able to, like, I now think about my mom with so much love, and all of that conflict went away. Not the memories go away, but the conflict went away.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So now I just have all these very positive emotions which makes me miss her. But it's not the same.

[Heather Wyatt]

It's clean. It's clean grief.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And I know one thing that helped me was that my. My mom wouldn't. My mom had great faith and she would not want me to do this. Her biggest fear would have been something happening to her and us not being okay. So I had to start disciplining myself. I'm like, why am I going to make that true for her that I'm not okay? And so disciplining my brain. Every time I started to go to that dark place, I'm like, okay, I can miss her, I can love her, but I need to discipline myself away from that dark place because I'm going to honor her by being okay.

[Heather Wyatt]

I love that. So to get. To get more information on that, is that just something that I would go to?

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

It's a. It's a very specific type of therapist.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

They have to be certified.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And it's when we will send you emdr.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I A and emdr International association for Trauma.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay. And does that have a list of physicians and providers?

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And they do by zoom now, so it's so easy.

[Heather Wyatt]

Oh, I love that. Okay. I would. I. Life changing.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah.

[Heather Wyatt]

We actually something.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

We love that we recommend all the time. Dr. Rounden, who trained me on how to do it. And life changing. Yeah.

[Heather Wyatt]

Is it so daily? Weekly.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So it depends on you. His first. And it depends.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And it depends on how much trauma you've actually had. Because it's often the brain you bring into the trauma. Right. Finding her that if that's like it in your life, then maybe in five or more 10 sessions you just feel like yourself.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

If you grew up in chaos like Tana did, well, maybe it's 50 sessions, but it's life changing.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

His first gift to me when we were dating was 10 sessions of EMDR. I'm like, I knew I shouldn't have dated a shrink. This is. This is why I didn't want to do a shrink.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Is it a good gift?

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

It was a great gift. So I went for this. I wasn't gonna go, but I ended up going because I'm like, I'm not doing therapy. But I went and I did the 10 sessions and I'm like, whoa. Like, it's weird how it works. It's like a shortcut through therapy almost. It's very strange. But then I realized I needed to keep going because I had. I had a lot of unresolved, like, childhood trauma. And so I kept going for almost two years because I'm like, I'm going to be a better mother. I'm going to be a better wife.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I want you to think of your life as over because of a choice you didn't make. And this is so, so important with survivors, family survivors of suicide, because it wasn't your choice. And sometimes the illness wins, just like with cancer. And I love that you said.

[Heather Wyatt]

I don't think I've ever heard it phrase like that. Sometimes the illness wins, just like with cancer. And I. I don't know, it just takes away things.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

As a mom, you know, we've got. Between us, we have four kids. We adopted my two nieces because they also grew up in my family. Um, so one of the, like, I just feel like these years are the most dangerous years because. And it's one thing, like, we've created an environment where, like, I'm very clear with them. I want you to be brutally honest with me about all the hardest things. There's nothing you can say, think here, or do that I haven't said, thought, heard, or done right. So one of the. One of the four. And we make that very safe for them to talk about anything. But I also make it clear. I'm like, the reason these years are so scary for me. And everyone thinks that it's only like, that. 13 to 18. No, no. When they go to college is really scary.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So. But I tell them it's like, one of the reasons this is so scary. You don't have an adult brain yet. Your brain's not fully developed yet, but because you are this age, you have independence. You can make independent decisions. You can make adult decisions that have adult consequences even though you don't have an adult brain. It's terrifying.

[Heather Wyatt]

It is, but it's.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

But you can't change it.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You're also a victim of the changing society with cell phones and social media. And I believe it was a Trojan horse that got unleashed on our society with no neuroscience study on development. And all the studies that have come out are bad.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And girls are, in general.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Kids who get cell phones before the age of 13 have a higher risk.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Of suicide and they're anxious.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That's not in the apple box.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Sponsor or Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

There's no warning.

[Heather Wyatt]

No.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That it's not. You have access to the world. It's. The world has access to. To you. And it's. My heart hurts for you.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Me too.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And for this situation, what helps you stay grounded and connected?

[Heather Wyatt]

I think obviously faith. I think my kids definitely do. And then just knowing that I have to keep going. There's hope out there. It's going to be okay. Um, I may not see Aubrey Earth side ever again, but I will see her heaven side. Um, and so taking away that permanence of she's gone forever. Um, so when I have this impending doom feelings, I try to think on that. Taylor and Riker need me. God has you here for a purpose. You're going to see her. And when you do, it's actually forever this time. And Aubrey's legacy, the work I'm doing is helping other people. And God's allowing something good to come from all of it. So I try to just remind myself, almost like a mantra of those things, just to stay grounded.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So one thing that might be helpful, when the feelings overwhelm you, there's a technique I like called havening.

[Heather Wyatt]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And it's. So when you have that sense of impending doom, there's an area in your brain called the amygdala. It's like danger, danger, danger. And if your frontal lobes are sleepy, maybe you're jet lagged or you have a glass of wine or whatever, it just overwhelms you. Havening is bilateral, just means both sides. You stimulate both sides of your brain at the same time. And it's similar to emdr, but if you just take your hands and go like this, like if you're on a plane and go into the feeling, not away from it, right? Because so many people in this situation, they'll drink or they'll smoke pot because it's like, I just can't feel what I feel. But the problem is when the alcohol wears off or the marijuana wears off, the feeling comes back.

[Heather Wyatt]

It's worse.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right? But if you go into the feeling and you do bilateral hemisphere stimulation, so just rubbing your hands like this, or my favorite is just doing this, you go into it for maybe 30 seconds, I mean, feel it and then distract your mind and Go somewhere you really like, whether it's the mountains or the beach or whatever, and just do this for a couple of minutes. And then when you're done, it's like that sense of impending doom has just sort of washed away. It's very powerful. There's a website called Havening, like safe haven, havening.org that the research shows is it just sort of calms that part of your brain. And then I want you to watching your thoughts and you don't have to believe every stupid thing that sort of pops in your head. And the brain's sneaky and anything that reminds you of her will trigger and. And if you haven't worked through the guilt, right. The bad thoughts, I should have done this, I should have done that. Right. Because that's just common. Especially from then, yes, then yes, it will come. And it'll come right before your period. It'll be worse. It'll come if you've not slept well. And like, I call them ants, automatic negative thoughts. They'll infest you when your hormones are a little bit off or you haven't slept or times of stress. And you need to become a man master ant killer. And it's something I wish somebody would have taught Aubrey how to do. We're working on creating this national brain health revolution, and I believe every child should learn how to manage their mind.

[Heather Wyatt]

I do, too. I think that would be wonderful, especially just to know if I'm.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

If I'm watching this episode, and I am, I'm. If I'm a child who's struggling or if I'm a parent who has a child who's struggling or if I'm a parent who has lost a child to suicide. Like I'm, I'm thinking of it from this perspective. It's, it's, you know, we can't control the bad things in the world that happen around us, but we can connect more. And, you know, if you're that child, things can feel so hopeless. They can feel so, so big in your world, but they're not that big in our world. I promise you.

[Heather Wyatt]

Like.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And if, if you have those parents who you can't talk to, there are other people you can talk to. Yes, I think that's the thing that I want to get out there. It's like we tell our kids, there's nothing you can say, think here, or do that we haven't said, heard, thought, or done. And if your parents aren't those parents, you need to find someone you can talk to.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And if you're A parent who's in this situation, the, the guilt isn't, you know, going to help you move forward and so getting treatment for that. And you know, yes, you want to be able to see what's happening with your child if you can, but if you can't, you need to be well.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

You need to be okay for your kids.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And for yourself.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes, yes, I agree, I agree.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know, it's clear you found purpose in sharing vulnerability on social media. So tell us more about the foundation.

[Heather Wyatt]

So when, because Aubrey was on a wait list that was part of the job with that is I knew that there were a lot of other preteens and teens that were on a wait list also. And I just did not want financial reasons or wait list to prevent a child from getting the help they needed if they're telling the adult and the adult's trying and just not there for them. So we are, you know, we're a year in, so we're still working on building that up. But we've put out resources on our website. We have a map and you kind of just click on your state and find the resources there. We're constantly updating it as we find them out. That there is quite a bit out there, but there's also those wait lists and insurance barriers and things like that. But the website provides resources and then it also directs them to the 988 number to, you know, get immediate help and things like that. It's resources for parents and children. There's resources on there for parents to help them understand there are resources on there for children, there are videos. But the goal is just to be able to provide that and to be able to provide grants if it's a financial reason and just spread that. We ultimately want to be able to kind of go into schools and spread that and talk about what you're saying, go to a trusted adult, go to someone, you have to be able to talk about those things. And then eventually we want a place that kids can go to rehabilitate. A lot of what we have is an inpatient for 10 days and which saves children. But it's not, it's not long term. Right. So the goal would be to have a place that kids can go and receive the therapy they need, maybe get it the direction and dig into their brains like what you're saying to why they're thinking that way. I think that the ants, kids knowing that and learn when those thoughts come in what they can do. That's long term goal, being able to create places like that for children, teens, and right now, just resources, grants, and just getting that out there.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I love that so much. Is there anything you've never been asked about this that you wish somebody would ask you?

[Heather Wyatt]

I think that you guys kind of asked a few of those questions with. Did all, you know what was going on with Aubrey? Because back home, to everyone, she was happy and bubbly. And so I think just knowing that she still had those struggles and asking about that, what was behind that smile, what was going on? Lots of people know now, but initially I don't think that anyone understood and asked and I think that now it is known. But that was one thing that I, I.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, and if you have to be perfect, then you don't share.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Your bad thoughts.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right. Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

That way. Yeah, I think a lot of girls are that way.

[Heather Wyatt]

I, Yeah, I can see that. Because you, you have that perfectionism.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

There's a facade.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Where can people follow you or learn more about the foundation?

[Heather Wyatt]

So the foundation has a website, aubreywhyatfoundation.com there's the Aubrey White Foundation, Instagram, Aubrey White foundation on Facebook. I have my personal social medias that I still share on those as well. And that's Heather Wyatt on Facebook, tick tock, YouTube, all of those. And we share on both the foundation and my personal ones, the different information and resources coming out.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I am so glad you came.

[Heather Wyatt]

And.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I want you to challenge that thought.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

I would.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You've been listening to Change your brain everyday podcast. And if you have these thoughts, know that they're common.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Especially since COVID Covid created this inflammatory bomb in the brain and more people than ever before have the thoughts.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

But.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But just because you have a thought doesn't mean it's true, doesn't mean it's helpful.

[Heather Wyatt]

And.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The consequences to the people you love are staggering. And I have seen that over the 45 years I've been a psychiatrist. Reach out for help. There is help available. Um, and if you can't do it in your family, do it with someone at church or someone in school.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

Yeah, I just. As someone who was not Aubrey's age, I was 23. I had cancer and I was 23. And I went through a severe depression. I didn't want to live anymore. I didn't really have the thought of taking my life, but I didn't want to live. And I used to actually pray that God would just let me die because I was just wasting oxygen on the planet. And I think back to that time, it was so dark and I'm looking at my life now, and I'm like, wow, like, if people could realize, like, it, it, it. It's not going to stay that way. Like, I look at my life now and how much I've been able to do, turning that pain into purpose. And so I think that's just a really important thing for young people to. Or anybody who's having those thoughts to realize is that there is hope.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

And it can change so radically, but you've got to give it that chance to change and you've got to reach out.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes. And that. I have a book coming out in a couple of weeks type the Aubrey Wyatt Story. And it kind of goes into, obviously, a couple of months prior to Aubrey's passing, getting to know her, but then that journey after with what you're talking about and that grief and obviously still working through it as I'm writing, but just those ups, downs, those highs, lows, like you're talking about, and just that journey throughout it.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

It's like, God, just let me go.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes. Yes. What.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What is coming out? When.

[Heather Wyatt]

So it's in editing right now, so we anticipate the end of October that it will be released. We just released the COVID yesterday, so the end of October is our goal. It's called the Aubrey Wyatt Story.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I'm rewind.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

I'm sorry, what? You were about to ask something.

[Heather Wyatt]

Oh, for how long did you struggle with that?

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So I struggled for probably six to eight months. And I remember people telling me to snap out of it, which is one of the most irritating things. So please don't say that to people who are in depression. If I could snap out of it, I would snap out of it.

[Heather Wyatt]

Yes, I agree.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So it was really hard. I remember my mom being frustrated, like, what's the matter with you? And get out of bed. And. And then they put me on Prozac and I wasn't depressed anymore. But, yeah, it almost ruined my life.

[Heather Wyatt]

Right, Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer (possibly a mental health professional or advocate)]

So it just wasn't the right medication for me.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Your Brain Matters. Amen Clinics helps people with brain scans and targeted treatment across 11 cities. Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, D.C. miami, New York, Seattle, Scottsdale, Los Angeles, Orange County, California and San Francisco. Learn more at amenclinics.com all right. Leave us a comment Question Review. Subscribe and the Aubrey Wyatt Story is coming out at the end of October. Thanks for listen.