OMEGA-3 and Brain Health: The Science from a Leading Expert with Bill Harris

Summary

Podcast Summary: “OMEGA-3 and Brain Health: The Science from a Leading Expert with Bill Harris”

Change Your Brain Every Day
Hosts: Dr. Daniel & Tana Amen
Guest: Dr. Bill Harris, Professor, OmegaQuant President
Release Date: February 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features internationally recognized omega-3 expert Dr. Bill Harris discussing the crucial science behind omega-3 fatty acids—especially EPA and DHA—and their impact on cardiovascular health, brain health, dementia risk, and more. The conversation navigates through common myths, practical advice on supplementation, understanding omega-3 and omega-6 roles, and the important takeaway: "Know your omega-3 index and optimize it."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Omega-3s and Omega-6s?

[03:37], [14:57]

• Omega-3s:
  • Two categories: "Plant omega-3" (ALA, from soybean oil—common in American diets but least effective) vs. marine sources (EPA and DHA), which matter most for health.
  • Essential for body and brain function. "What we measure in the blood is the levels of that that correlates very strongly with how much you eat." – Dr. Harris [03:34]
  • EPA and DHA come from fish, seafood, and some algae-based vegan supplements.
• Omega-6s:
  • Chiefly linoleic acid, abundantly found in vegetable oils (soybean, corn oil) used widely in processed foods.
  • Both omega-3 and -6 are essential fatty acids—they must be consumed, not produced internally.

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2. Why Omega-3 Levels Matter: The Science

[05:14], [13:21], [19:03], [24:58]

• Early research (Harvard, 2002) associated high omega-3 blood levels with reduced sudden cardiac death risk—independent of cholesterol.
  • "The Omega 3s are really a better predictor of risk for heart disease than cholesterol." – Dr. Harris [06:51]
• Epidemiology shows higher omega-3s = lower stroke, AFib, and dementia risk ([13:21]).
  • Recent findings: "The higher people that have the highest levels of omega 3 are the lowest risk for developing early onset and garden variety dementia." – Dr. Harris [13:21]
• Omega-6 linoleic acid also correlates with lower risk for heart disease, cancer, and dementia, countering the 'inflammatory' myth ([19:03]).

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3. Common Myths & Clarifications

[10:24], [12:07], [19:55]

• Omega-3s and Bleeding:
  • Early data from Inuits and Eskimos led to a persistent myth about omega-3s causing bleeding; research repeatedly demonstrates "No increased risk, even if you're on a blood thinner." – Dr. Harris [11:48]
• Atrial Fibrillation (AFib):
  • Very high doses (3–4g/day) may slightly raise AFib risk in those with existing cardiovascular disease, but normal intake (1.5g/day) is not risky ([13:05]).
• "Omega-6s are Pro-Inflammatory":
  • Modern well-controlled studies indicate linoleic acid is not pro-inflammatory; higher levels lower inflammation and disease risk ([19:55]).

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4. Optimal Omega-3 Index & Supplementation

[08:47], [23:52], [25:01]

• Average American Omega-3 Index: About 5%; optimal: 8–12%.
• Daily EPA+DHA Needs:
  • To raise index to optimal: ~1,500mg/day (EPA plus DHA). “So, 1.5 grams, omega 3 power—2 capsules, 1440 perfect milligrams of EPA and DHA.” – Dr. Amen [09:49]
• Safety:
  • "No problems that we know of [at higher doses]; it may be unnecessary. There’s a plateau for benefits." – Dr. Harris [10:08]
• Testing:
  • "You can't change what you don't measure… Know your level." – Dr. Amen [23:55]
  • OmegaQuant.com offers an at-home test.
• Diet vs. Supplements:
  • “It can be done with supplements. It can be done with food. You don’t have to use supplements to do it. Just got to be committed to sardines.” – Dr. Harris [25:11]

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5. Practical Benefits and Real-World Outcomes

[37:09], [39:09], [41:12]

• How long to see a difference?
  • Biochemical level: About 4 months (lifespan of a red blood cell) [36:41].
  • Subjective effects (hair, nails, mood, skin, joints): can appear in 2–4 months (sometimes earlier) [37:09], [44:09].
  • "Especially the women say…your hair's thicker. Your nails are thicker." – Dr. Amen [37:19], Dr. Harris: "That would be an interesting area for research." [37:37]
• Mental Health Impact:
  • Cited a [12-week New Zealand study]: Prozac = 50% improvement, omega-3s = 57%, both = 88%. "So 12 weeks, significant benefit." – Dr. Amen [38:04]
  • EPA—more effective than DHA for depression & ADHD ([38:49]), possibly due to anti-inflammatory mechanisms.
• Cognitive and Physical Health:
  • "If your heart’s not right, your brain’s not right." – Dr. Amen [22:31]
• Pain & Inflammation:
  • Evidence for pain/headaches/arthritis is still developing, but many patients report decreased pain and better joint function informally ([44:09]).

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6. Omega-3s, Mercury, and Diet Choices

[26:39], [28:40], [35:02]

• Mercury Fear Overstated:
  • Most fish are safe; only avoid swordfish, shark, tilefish, seabass, and (in excess) albacore tuna. "Mercury's…fear of that has really caused people to avoid foods that are much better for their brains." – Dr. Harris [28:19]
  • High-quality omega-3 supplements are mercury-free.
• Fish v. Grass-Fed Beef:
  • Grass-fed meat contains more omega-3 than conventional, but "it's not an omega-3 source, that's for sure." – Dr. Harris [35:43]

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7. Saturated vs. Unsaturated Fats and Dietary Guidelines

[30:27], [31:49]

• USDA no longer demonizes all fats, emphasizing "healthy" fats, but still limits saturated fat ([30:27]).
• Saturated = solid at room temp (butter, coconut oil); unsaturated = liquid (olive, canola, vegetable oils).
• Labelling and public guidelines remain confusing and need improvement.

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8. Future Directions for Omega-3 Research & Access

[45:17], [46:03], [47:01]

• Dr. Harris envisions widespread medical testing of omega-3 index as part of routine care.
• Anticipates plant-based, genetically engineered, and efficient sources of EPA/DHA to meet growing demand.
• "I think we're going to have omega 3 sources that don't require killing any fish… genetically modified soybean…could be a great source." – Dr. Harris [46:03]
• Emphasis on innovative food fortification strategies for public health ("like adding iodine to salt," [47:01]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Takeaway on Testing:

  "You can't change what you don't measure. And when I do an omega quant on someone, they change it if it's not healthy."
  – Dr. Daniel Amen [24:01]

• On the 'Inflammatory' Omega-6 Myth:

  "No, it's not pro inflammatory. And that's another paper we just published…either no relationship or the higher the linoleic, the lower the inflammatory."
  – Dr. Bill Harris [19:55]

• Mental Health and Omega-3s:

  "Giving EPA is more effective for patients with depression and patients who have ADHD than DHA."
  – Dr. Daniel Amen [38:49]

• On Mercury in Fish:

  "Mercury has been oversold...the fear of that has really caused people to avoid foods that are much better for their brains."
  – Dr. Bill Harris [28:19]

• Dietary Simplicity:

  "Move more, eat less. I mean, it’s just..."
  – Dr. Bill Harris [33:59]

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Useful Timestamps

• Definition of Omega-3s & 6s: [03:37], [14:57]
• Cholesterol-independent benefits: [06:47]
• Optimal omega-3 index & dosing: [08:47], [25:01]
• Clearing up bleeding & AFib myths: [10:24], [12:07]
• Heart, brain, and dementia links: [13:21], [19:03]
• Testing & practical recommendations: [23:52], [24:58]
• Mercury & pregnancy/fish intake: [26:39], [28:40]
• Saturated vs. unsaturated fats: [30:27], [31:49]
• Benefits timeline: [36:41], [38:04], [44:09]
• Future of omega-3 sources: [45:17], [46:03], [47:01]

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Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Test your omega-3 index; aim for 8–12% for optimal health.
• 1,500mg/day EPA+DHA supports heart, brain, and overall health.
• Don't fear omega-6s; focus on minimizing processed foods, not the oils themselves.
• Choose fish and quality supplements for reliable, safe intake—modern products are mercury-free.
• Omega-3s are essential for lifelong health; consistency over time matters most.
• Vegetarian or vegan? Use algae-based EPA/DHA sources.
• Expect measurable biochemical changes in 3–4 months; symptom improvement often occurs within 2–4 months.
• Myth-busting: Bleeding and AFib risk usually only matter at very high doses; most people don’t need to worry.

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For further info and to measure your omega-3 index, visit OmegaQuant.com.

Transcript

[Dr. Bill Harris]

The higher the level of linoleic in the blood, the lower the risk for death over time. Lower risk for cardiovascular death, lower risk for cancer death, reduced risk for dementia. We've seen in studies where if you look at the linoleic acid, we see favorable relationships. Higher levels of linoleic better if we look at the non linoleic acid, omega 6s there you see higher levels of the non la are associated with increased risk for some diseases.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Dr. Bill Harris is a professor and.

[Interviewer/Host]

Researcher and the president of OmegaQuant, focusing on human nutrition.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

His work has focused on the role of omega 3 fatty acids as they.

[Interviewer/Host]

Relate to cardiovascular disease and neuropsychiatric disease.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Just to define what we mean by omega 3, there's the plant omega 3, which is called alpha linolenic acid ala it's a part of soybean oil. But it's not the really most effective omega 3. The stuff that's important is EPA and DHA from fish, seafood, marine sources. What we measure in the blood is the levels of that that correlates very strongly with how much you eat. Both omega 3 and omega 6 are essential fatty acids. Mono unsaturates like you get in olive oil. Oleic acid is not ess.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So let's just take a moment and educate our audience on the difference between omega 3s and omega 6s. Because a lot of people think every day you are making your brain better or you are making it worse. Stay with us to learn how you can change your brain for the better. Every day people come to Amen clinics from all over the world for answers. With 11 clinics in major hubs Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, DC, LA, Miami, NY, Orange County, Seattle, San Francisco and Scottsdale, expert brain care is closer than you think. Visit amenclinics.com welcome to change your BRAIN every day. Today we're going to talk about Amman everything you need to know about omega 3 fatty acids. One of my favorite topics. We are here with Dr. Bill Harris, who is an internationally recognized expert on omega 3 fatty acids and how they can benefit patients with heart disease, which of course how they can benefit patients who have brain problems. He obtained his PhD in Human Nutrition from the University of Minnesota and did postdoctoral fellowship in clinical nutrition and lipid Metabolism with Dr. Bill Connor at the Oregon Health Sciences University. He has more than 300 publications related to fatty acids, including omega 3s in the medical literature, and was an author on two American Heart association scientific statements on fatty acids. Dr. Harris is a professor in the Department of Medicine at Sanford School of Medicine at the University of South Dakota and the President and CEO of OmegaQuant. It's important to know. Dr. Harris and I published together paper on Omega 3 fatty acids and brain blood flow. And the take home was you want your omega 3 index to be healthy if you want a healthy brain.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

So welcome.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's so good. I have admired you and your work for a long time. And here at Amen clinics we have used omega quant, which is a fatty acid test, a blood spot test, for a long time. So how did you get interested in.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Omega 3 fatty acids in omega 3? I was told to get interested in my. During my postdoc, my doctor Connor in Oregon assigned me to. I was fresh out of my PhD and I, he assigned me to look at the effects of salmon oil on blood cholesterol, blood lipids. Because back in the 70s, we, we knew saturated fats, hard fats, animal fats, raised cholesterol levels. And we knew that vegetable oils, liquid oils, lowered it. But we didn't know if it was the animalness versus the plantness or the solid versus the liquid. We didn't know why. So Dr. Connor thought, well, let's use salmon oil because it's a liquid, but it's from an animal. So that was kind of cutting across. So that was my first experience. We did a metabolic ward study, recruited a bunch of folks around the campus, fed them three meals a day for a month in three different phases. Saturated fat diet, polyunsaturated vegetable oil and salmon oil. We gave them about a, about a cup, half a cup of salmon oil every day on top of two salmon meals a day. So we loaded them up with Omega 3 big time. And it lowered cholesterol relative to the saturated fat diet. But so did the vegetable oil diet, did the same thing.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But the big thing, vegetable oil diet, lowered cholesterol or raised, lowered.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

And it turned out that actually if you just take saturated fat out of the diet, put anything in and your cholesterol level will go down. It's just saturated fat raises cholesterol. So you take it out, whether you put in fish oil or vegetable oils, doesn't make any difference, you're going to lower cholesterol. But fish, you know, fish oils never really were for lowering cholesterol. That's not their. What they do is lower triglyceride levels, which is another blood lipid. But that was just the, that, that was really the first 20 years of my research was in the effects of fish oils on lipid and lipoprotein metabolism. And then about 25 years ago, we got interested in blood, measuring blood levels of omega 3 as a marker of intake, how much you're eating, and then looking for the predictive value, the importance of having high omega 3 in terms of risk for a variety of diseases. So I kind of became, instead of a lipid biochemist, more of an epidemiologist. So looking at, again, relationships between blood levels of omega 3 and outcomes. And that's where we started. We actually got started based on a study that was published by a group from Harvard in 2002 where they found people, this is from the Physicians Health Study, and they found that high blood, Omega 3 was a strong predictor of low risk for sudden cardiac death in these doctors.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And is that independent of their cholesterol level?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Completely.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Completely independent, yeah.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not irrelevant. It's irrelevant to the Omega 3 story. And actually, the Omega 3s are really a better predictor of risk for heart disease than cholesterol.

[Interviewer/Host]

How much of the Omega 3s are you measuring at that for that?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, we. So we measure in red blood cell. We call it the omega 3 index. That's the name of the test that we developed and published in 2004. And it's the amount of Omega 3, EPA and DHA in red blood cell membranes. So it's not a plasma level, it's not blood, it's red cells. Because we want to. The Omega 3s hang out in membranes, cell membranes everywhere. And the easiest membrane to get to is a red blood cell.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And what percentage of the brain is omega 3 fatty acids?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, that's a good question. It varies by section. Like, you know, place in the brain, all over the place. But yeah, one of my colleagues in, in Canada just took, I think it was six or eight complete human brains and homogenized each one and actually measured how much Omega 3 is there, because there's a. A lot of water, there's a lot of protein, there's a lot of other fats. But I think it's in the neighborhood of it doesn't really mean anything to people. Four or five grams of omega 3 per brain, you know, like, what does that do? It's hard to get your head around that. The EP DHA really is the principal Omega 3 that's in the brain. And the other, there's an Omega 6 that's the partner called arachidonic acid. Those two are the major polyunsaturated fatty acids in brain tissue, and they really don't move very much by supplementation in adults.

[Interviewer/Host]

So when you Talk about the index. What is the average. If there is an average supplementation an average adult should take to. To achieve that. The optimal level.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Good, good. Yeah, the average. What's the average level in Americans? Roughly 5%. So it means 5% of the fatty acids in a red cell are EPA and DHA.

[Interviewer/Host]

And how much do you have to take to achieve that?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, the average American eats about 100 milligrams a day, so hardly any. That's sort of actually the lowest we've seen have been in vegans and in U. S. Military deployed.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

She was vegan for a while and was terrible.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was terrible for me. Didn't. I just didn't respond to it well at all. I'm sure my triglycerides were through the roof.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh, really?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it did not work well.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was eating too many carbs and too many.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah. You can be vegan in a whole bunch of good ways and bad ways, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, we had. We saw vegan level.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So the Average American is 5%.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Five and a half.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But the ideal is above 8%.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Eight percent, right.

[Interviewer/Host]

And how much. But how much do you have take as a supplement to achieve optimal.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

To go from there to about optimal? Roughly about 1500 milligrams a day of EPA plus DHA. So.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So 1.5 grams omega 3 power, 2 capsules, 1440 perfect milligrams of EPA and DHA.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because you see people taking lots and lots of them. I like. I see people like, who think that taking 4 or 5 grams a day is great. Are there problems with that?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No problems that we know of. It may be unnecessary. You know, just about every system, there's a. There's a plateau you reach where you further higher levels. You don't get any additional benefit.

[Interviewer/Host]

But there aren't like a lot of side effects from it.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No, no.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What about people don't take them if you're having surgery because of bleeding.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

That's. That's one of those urban legends you just cannot get rid of. Because the earliest studies with Omega 3 were done by Danish investigators in green in Greenland. You know, they found these.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Oh, Greenland's very popular these days.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Let's stop today. Very popular. Thank you. Yeah. So they, these two guys were, in the 1970s, found a group of Eskimos, Inuits there that had very. Apparently had very low risk for acute myocardial infarction from heart attacks. But they ate terrible diets from the perspective of the 1970s, you know, all high fat, high saturated fat, high cholesterol no fruits and vegetables.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No react, you know, but they weren't having any heart attacks. And this was just a big puzzle. So these Danish investigators looked at their food, looked at their blood, found the omega 3 fatty acids in their and quite high levels. And these Eskimos also had a tendency to bleed, nosebleeds, things like that. And so we and others showed that actually the plate, you can inhibit platelet function taking omega 3 platelets or you know, the little white cells that clot. But the effect of omega 3 is kind of like aspirin.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It's not a big effect on bleeding time. But from those early experiments the idea came that you'll bleed if you're on Omega 3. But paper after paper after paper after review said, no, no, no, it doesn't. Even if you're on a blood thinner, it doesn't increase your risk.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what about for things like I've heard people say if you have afib, you shouldn't take too much.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

AFIB is the, the current issue with omega 3. Yeah. And no, the good studies show that if you have afib, you can still take omega 3. The issue that's come up is if you're taking high doses of Omega 3, like three or four grams a day. Right. And you're a person, at least the randomized trials that have been done, if you're people with high risk for cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, strokes, etc. People, those kind of people taking those kind of doses, that's where you see the increased risk for afib.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

But the, the increase for the absolute increased risk is like 0.8%. So instead of, instead of your risk being 2% for having developing afib, like on placebo, it might be 2.8% on fish oil. So it's, it's minimal, pretty small.

[Interviewer/Host]

So for those people then just the normal dose of 1.5 grams would be better.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Doesn't. Right. We've, the studies, we've seen those doses don't raise risk rate.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So what health benefits of omega 3s are strongly supported by that evidence and which ones are still debated?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I. Heart disease, cardiovascular events, certainly. And we've actually shown that higher levels of, excuse me, higher levels of omega 3 are associated with lower risk for stroke and for afib? Interestingly, in the UK, Biobank studies dementia in several. We just published, got a paper accepted today that in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition looking at risk for early onset dementia before age 65 and omega 3 loads and found what we always find is that the higher people that have the Highest levels of omega 3 are the lowest risk for developing early onset and garden variety dementia as well. Interestingly, we also saw the same thing with linoleic acid, which is the primary omega 6 fatty acid. The higher the levels of linoleic acid in the blood, the lower the risk for dementia.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So, so let's just take a moment and educate our audience on the difference between omega 3s and omega 6s because a lot of people think, oh, omega sixes are pro inflammatory like corn oil. Not good. Omega 3s are anti inflammatory. So that would be good. But it's more complicated it is than that. Let's try to educate them on what, what does the science say about both omega 3s and omega 6s?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

So just to define what we mean by omega 3 because there's two classes. There's the plant omega 3, which is called alpha linolenic acid ala. That really is the primary omega 3 in the American diet because it's you, it's a part of soybean oil and it's, there's a lot of soybean oil consumed in America. So that's the most Omega 3, but it's not the really most effective Omega 3. The stuff that's important is EPA and DHA from fish, seafood, marine sources, algae. I mean not when I say that people always think seaweed or something like that, but it's not. There are Algyl Omega 3 products, but they're made from a single celled, a single cell algae, micro algae that is designed to actually make EPA and DHA. It's the original source.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So we have a vegan omega 3. Yes, that is really good and it's very high. EPA. Yeah, because most vegan sources of omega 3, it's DHA, but it's low.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It depends on the species of microalgae. That's some of them will make dha, some will naturally make epa. And you can blend the two together if you want to to get both. So. But yeah, there are vegetarian sources of omega 3 now of EPA, DHA. And most of what I talk about is EPA and dha. That's really what we measure in the blood is the levels of that that correlates very strongly with how much you eat. I mean there's certain biologic variability in people anyway genetic, but most people very strongly related to their intake. The Omega 6s are the other. Both Omega 3 and Omega 6 are essential fatty acids. That's the only fatty acids that are essential. The mono and saturates like you get in olive oil. Oleic acid, it's not essential. You can make it from sugar.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So essential means you cannot make it in your body, you have to consume it.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right, right. From a nutritional point of view, you can't make it. So it's an essential nutrient, like vitamin.

[Interviewer/Host]

C. You're not converting it from anything else.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

You're not converting it from anything else. Right, exactly. And so the Omega 6 is the primary, the huge gorilla in the room for omega 6 fatty acids called linoleic acid. It's very much like alpha linolenic acid. They're both 18 carbon fatty acids. They're one's got three double bonds. One has two double bonds, one's omega 3, one's omega 6. And the omega name comes from the chemical structure. It's not just kind of cool. It's because the. When you look at the. In a chemistry textbook, you look at a picture of fatty acid, it's just a long chain of carbon atoms hooked together by bonds, right? Sometimes there's double bonds. If it's a polyunsaturated fatty acid, it's got two double bonds at least. And if the first double bond at the far end, the first carbon in that chain is called the alpha carbon, and the last one's called the omega carbon. Alpha and omega, beginning and end of the Greek Alphabet, right? So the. If you go to the end, the omega carbon and count back three spots, that's the first double bond. And all omega 3 fatty acids, that's their last name. So they're called omega minus three or omega minus six, which is the linoleic acid. And you can't interconvert them. You can have to have both in your diet. You can't make one from the other. So that's where the omega name comes from. It's from this Omega carbon and linoleic acid in the Omega 6 family is. Is by far and away the major polyunsaturated fat we eat. We eat probably 15 grams a day of linoleic acid as part of the American diet, average intake.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And we're consuming it as part of.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Soybean oil, corn oil, corn oil, soybean oil, coconut, cottonseed oil. These are. And we don't. It's not because we're just pouring that stuff on our food. It's just a.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because so many.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's in everything. Processed foods.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah. And that's where it gets to be kind of confusing because, you know, you know, bad processed foods, ultra processed foods, and then you think, well, they have these oils. But on the other hand, when we look at Omega 3, Omega 6 levels in the blood in Framingham or not. Well, in Framingham as well as in the UK Biobank, which is now, you know, 450,000 people followed for 15 years for different health outcomes. The higher the level of linole lake in the blood, the lower the risk for heart disease death. I'm just start with death. The lower the risk for death over time. Lower risk for cardiovascular death, lower risk for cancer death, lower risk for all other causes of death. And now we again just saw that reduced risk for dementia as well with higher linoleic acid. So linoleic acid.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it's not inflammatory, it's not pro inflammatory?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No, it's not pro inflammatory. And that's another paper we just published. We looked at the correlation between levels of linoleic acid in the blood and 10 different inflammatory biomarkers. And it's either no relationship or the higher the little leg, the lower the inflammatory.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I wonder how did it get the reputation as being the inflammatory?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Is this a ratio of omega 3s and omega sixes?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

That's what got started in the 70s.

[Interviewer/Host]

That idea sort of like the whole. That is bad for you.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, Black hat, white hat. If one's good, one of them's got to be bad. They are. They are both metabolically handled by the same enzyme systems. And there are some metabolites of the Omega 6s that are pro inflammatory. They do cause like blood clotting and things like that, but there's some that do exactly the opposite too. There's like 150 different metabolites that are made from the omega 6s and about the same from omega 3. So it's. And there's pros and cons. The balance is just amazing. You can't get your head around it. But to say all Omega 6s are the same, so, so the Omega 6 Omega 3 ratio assumes.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's like saying all cholesterol is the same.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, the same idea.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Exactly the same idea. Right. But we've, we've seen in studies where if you look at the linoleic acid as a sub component of the omega 3s and their blood omelet linoleic acid and risk for disease, we see favorable relationships. Higher levels of linoleic. Better. If we look at the non linoleic acid, omega 6s, there's, there's like seven omega 6 fatty acids in the blood. Linoleic acid's far and away the highest one. Next one's arachidonic acid. And then there's a Bunch of little ones. So if you look at the non LA levels in the blood there, you see higher levels of the non LA are associated with increased risk for some diseases.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So that's why the AA EPA ratio, that's. Some people think that important.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It's kind of. Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

A being arachidonic. EPA, omega 3.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right. And that ratio will go up and down as the prime. The omega 6 doesn't change very much in. In the biology. Omega threes go up and down. That's the denominator. And it really drives the ratio.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so from someone who's listening, focusing on omega 3s can help focus and improve your health, especially when it comes to heart disease.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But if your heart's not right, your brain's not right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

That's right. Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The brain uses 20% of the 2% of your body's weight, but uses 20% of the blood flow your body. So if your heart's not right, your brain's not.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh, yeah, right. And we've always said, right, Brain and heart, they hook together.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Then I wrote a book called the Brain in Love and I'm like, your heart's not right, your brain's not right, your genitals aren't right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, then we can get to interesting. One of the highest tissues in omega 3 content after the brain is. And the retina is the testes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Interesting.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

So there's some reason for that. I think probably the little flagella, you know, the little tail. Sperms have to swim upstream. You know, you need some flexibility there. And they have to be smart, you know where they're going.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Your love life gets better with better omega 3 ratios.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah. We can go down that road too. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

So, so to, to. To. But to really have easy takeaways because I think a lot of the people listening, this could get really complicated.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I know.

[Interviewer/Host]

So to. To make it a simple takeaway, what do they need to do and what do they need to like for the average person who doesn't have a degree in. In biochemistry, how do we make this easy for them? Like, what is the ratio? What should they be doing? How do they just.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, well, first of all, I think people need to know their level.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And oh my God, you can't change what you don't measure. Holy.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Where have I heard that before?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I think actually it was a famous business person.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

You can't manage what you don't measure.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Can't change what you don't measure. And when I do an omega quant on someone.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They change it if it's not healthy.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The information is important to them.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's no longer abstract.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

People can learn about their levels. So OmegaQuant.com they can learn how to get an Omega 3 fatty acid level. And yeah, I did mine and it was 11.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Perfect.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Pretty good. I tasted two of our omega 3 fatty acids.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

There you go. So here are the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Catch up to see if you're still doing a good job. You got to keep taking the Omega 3s to keep the level up.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Because if you don't take it, it's essential.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

So it was right back down. Exactly right. So that's, that's important. So know your level. And once you know your level, then you can manage it and get it up to that 8% by either eating more fish.

[Interviewer/Host]

So minimum of 8%, that's optimal.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I think 8 to 8 to 12, as we say, is optimal. Okay, that. And that's kind of like the Japanese. Older now, not today's Japanese, but historical.

[Interviewer/Host]

Japanese, the sort of Okinawan.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah, right. I think the younger Japanese today are eating more Western McDonald's foods. And so it's, it's not going to be good for them in the long run. So 8% is a target. And it can be done with supplements. It can be done with food. You don't have to use supplements to do it. Just got to be committed to sardines.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What if the key to overcoming your pain isn't just in your body, but in your brain? My new book, Change youe Brain, Change youe Pain, offers strategies I've used with thousands of patients to break free from physical and emotional pain and reclaim focus, energy and peace. Healing is possible, and it starts with your brain. Pre order my new book now now and receive special bonus gifts at Change your brain changeyourpainbook.com so our friend Cyrus Raji published an MRI study that showed people who ate grilled or baked fish at least once a week had more gray matter in important areas of their brain like the hippocampus. And so your diet really matters. Now some people go, but what about the mercury in fish? And in omega 3 supplements? At least high quality supplements, they're filtered and screened.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I think that's the big difference. For people who are worried about mercury, you're going to get less of it in a supplement.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right? You're going to get none in a supplement. I mean, that's. The mercury is water soluble oils separate from water. You don't get the mercury and you don't really get. There's only four or five fish that you get any significant amount of mercury from. We, we've been on a bit of a campaign from the child development point of view. We did a big meta analysis of papers looking at mom's intake of fish during pregnancy. This is like 32 different studies where they've looked at how much fish mom ate, regardless of what kind, regardless of mercury content. And then we looked at the IQ of the kids and the higher. I think if you looked at the lowest fish intake versus the highest fish intake, it was like a seven point IQ difference for the kids, the offspring. And mercury had no effect. There was no relationship. The mercury has been oversold over. I think it's been when the FDA came out with those, those, those advice, that advice back in the year in 2000 for pregnant women to avoid X fish. Women just stopped eating fish. They didn't, they didn't say, well, I'm not gonna eat that one or that one or that one. It's pregnant women just said, I'm not messing with. And the, there was a documented drop in blood omega 3 levels in pregnant women after that. And it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let me guess, you said five. There's is one of them, is one of the swordfish.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh, oh, you mean the mercury. Yeah, Swordfish is one of them. Shark. Shark is one of them.

[Interviewer/Host]

Seabast.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah. Good tile fish.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Tuna.

[Interviewer/Host]

Tile fish.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

I wouldn't have even thought of that.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right. I mean, I don't. Not really. Albacore tuna. The white tuna's got a little more than the chunk pink. But still it's not, it's not significant. It's not significant. Mercury's. I think the fear of that has really caused people to avoid foods that are much better for their brains.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm so happy to hear that because I love sushi.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh yeah, great. Oh, absolutely. Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I want to talk about something different. I want to go in a different fat direction.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Sure, sure. Fat direction.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

High cholesterol, generally not a good thing for your heart. Low cholesterol, not good for your brain. There's actually a whole group of studies that show under total 160.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Under 160. Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Under an association with homicide, suicide, depression and death from all causes. And so many people are taking statins today and I have to fight with their cardiologists because they're trying to get total cholesterol as low as possible. And I'm like, this is not a good.

[Interviewer/Host]

What about hormones?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Do you have a thought on that?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I'd like to see those studies, but I've not. I've gone away from cholesterol for the last 20 years. I have not paid much attention to LDL, HDL, any of that stuff, nor about statins. I used to lecture on them back in the 90s, but not anymore. So I, I can't, I can't say anything pro or con about that, but it wouldn't be surprising.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So if 60% of the solid weight of our brains is fat, then non eating the non water getting healthy fat. So the, the new guidelines from the USDA doesn't demonize fat. It doesn't.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No. They emphasize healthy fats is good, doesn't.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Get excited about limiting fat, although it still limits saturated saturated fats. So maybe help people understand the difference between saturated, unsaturated.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Sure.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Fat and when you're choosing something to eat, you know, is, is the ribeye really worse than the chicken?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh, that's a great, great question. It's not the meat, it's the fat in it. Right? That's the issue. It's just not the protein. Proteins are both good. And then there's obviously a big push for more protein in the new guidelines, which probably. Okay, good thing. I think what's controversial about the guidelines is they, they recommend butter and full fat dairy, which are saturated fat. Meaning saturated fat. Well, I think you can't say. Went from, from dairy in a way you can solid at room temperature. Right. Like butter. You think about coconut oil, butter, coconut oil, butter. Those are solid. I mean, so that's the general way of looking at saturated fats. Unsaturated fats is simply. They have, they're more liquid.

[Interviewer/Host]

Olive oil.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Olive oil is liquid. And then if you put olive oil in the refrigerator, it'll start to cloud up because it'll be, it's not, it's got some, doesn't have many polyunsaturated fats. The more double bonds in these molecules, the more polyunsaturated, the more liquid it is. The lower the bone, the lower the melting point. So corn oil, soybean oil, safflower, sunflower, those oils, put them in the fridge. They won't, they'll. You don't have to store them in the fridge, but they will not get cloudy. They will not start to solidify out. But the, the new guidelines are a mixed bag. I'm writing a review right now with a bunch of other people on commentary about them. You know, we like this, we like this, we like this. But that's really confusing to say eat more full fat dairy, more meat with, you know, without Trying to limit the fat. But don't, don't eat any more saturated fat than 10%. Well, pretty soon those are going to run into each other because they're saying eat more of these kinds of foods and then they say limit.

[Interviewer/Host]

So that's some clarification.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

They need clarification. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And they also didn't dump alcohol. I would have completely dumped it.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

What did they say? To moderate or something like whatever that means.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, everything in moderation. Absolutely not.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But you know, I mean, because I look at brains all day long and alcohol is an incredibly common part of my practice when people have probably more than they should.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I suppose that varies by.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

This is so interesting. We could do weeks just on fat.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Just on fat.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How important this is.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, I would just say, what do you think?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You've been doing this like me a long time. If you could tell our audience the top three or four recommendations that you have learned as a nutrition scientist, what would they be?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Wow, calories. I mean, if we start, start large calories and exercise, I mean move more, eat less. I mean, it's just.

[Interviewer/Host]

Don't you think quality of calories matters more though?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

That helps. That helps. I mean. Right. But then that gets real fuzzy what the quality of calories are.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, if I'm having Cheetos versus.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Salad, salmon.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right. You have the same number of calories from each. Right, right. And the one's better than the other.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right, right. I could do 800 calories of Oreos and have a lot of inflammation versus.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. There's always that. Exactly. So nutritionally, I think that's important to think about how much you eat, just how much. Just don't overeat. It's simple to the fats where I'm much more comfortable than just, you know, energy in general. Of course, I, I think we need to eat a lot more Omega 3 than we do. And there are countries around the world that do and they do better. And the Japanese, for example, they live four and a half years longer than we do.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Fish is actually not the only source that if, if I understand this right, grass fed meat has more omega 3s than commercial industrial raised. Industrial raised.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

More would be true, but not enough. It would be like going from 2 milligrams per serving, 3 milligrams. So I mean, yeah, 50%.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So it's not consistent source.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

If you're trying to get Omega 3.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

You need to go right. You got to eat EPA, DHA to really get Omega.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You have to eat fish. Yeah.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

And you know, grass fed beef. I mean there's less fat. Right. In the grass fed.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you don't get the hormones, you don't get the true.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right, right. There's a lot of other, a lot of other reasons, but it's not an Omega 3 source, that's for sure. So that's, that's my, that's the horse I've been riding for a long time. Is, is. It's the one thing I do is you need to eat more Omega 3 and that's, it's a very clear message, I think. And again, knowing your blood level will motivate you to take the right steps to get your levels up to the 8% we think is, is the optimal target. And hang on to that for, don't do it just for two or three years and think you're going to turn that ship around. It's a lifetime thing.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I mean start at minus nine months. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

We tell people that about probiotics too. I mean there's a lot of things that you have to. It's maintenance.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It's maintenance. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, you don't go to the gym once and think you're done. Right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How long does it take to get your level healthy?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah. The average lifespan of or the lifespan of a red cell is about four months. So we like to look at, if you do omega 3 test and then you're going to up your omega 3 levels three or four months later, don't do it in a week.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. So let me ask you. So three or four months to get the levels where you can see it in a lab. But let me ask you, what about the benefits? Like when do you start to see the actual benefits?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh, that's. I mean, because like when you feel it. Yeah. I mean there really isn't a feeling.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of really like if you're having less pain or.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, the thing my patients tell me is, especially the women is they go to the hairdresser and the hairdresser goes, your hair's thicker. They go to get a manicure and they go, your nails are thicker.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Is that right?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That's absolutely great.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Great ideas for research. I mean this has not been studied. Those.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that would be interesting.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Very. It'd be very important.

[Interviewer/Host]

But do you have less pain? Do you have less brain fog? Do you have less depression? Do you have. And how long would that take?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

That would probably take years really.

[Interviewer/Host]

Before you'd feel that.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Before you'd feel that. But it would be hard.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So There's a study from New Zealand.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Where this is a 12 week study.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Okay.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They gave one group of depressed people Prozac 50 improvement. They gave them omega 3 fatty acids. Another group 57% improvement. And then another group, they gave both 88% improvement. And so. So, so 12 weeks, they saw in 12 weeks significant benefit.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But what's interesting, I'd love your take on this because the research is actually pretty clear. You know Dr. Kidd, Paris Kidd was our chief scientist for a long time and when I first told him this, he didn't believe it. And then he kept reading the research.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That giving EPA is more effective for patients with depression and patients who have ADHD than dha. And they've actually compared them head to head and I'm like, why would that be anti inflammatory?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

I mean you don't have to actually have the omega 3s in the meat of your brain to have benefit in your brain. You know.

[Interviewer/Host]

I see.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Because there can be anti inflammatory effects of.

[Interviewer/Host]

So that's the anti inflammatory portion.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Probably. I mean, I mean in fact DHA produces anti inflammatory molecules as well. Different ones than epa. But you're absolutely right. That the surprise. Because the brain is so much DHA that you'd give DHA and make the brain better. And the depression studies anyway didn't, didn't show that. So that's what's fun about research. You just don't know what's going to happen and you got to recalibrate. Okay, I'm going this way. Well, that's a dead end. I got to go that way. So. And that's what's fun about. You know, why EPA in mental, in. In brains.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, it's depression. I mean, and you said ADHD too. I wasn't quite sure about that. But I don't know that's necessarily the case for dementia. That's a different question.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's a different question. And I have a disease. I haven't seen the sort of separation.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And epa.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, I mean watching your videos, we know that dementia starts decades before. Decades. Right. And that that's why it's so hard to study in this. In the standard medical model of a randomized controlled trial where you give people omega 3 or a placebo or something and watch them for a year and a half and expect to have an answer. You know, you've got to do it for years and years and years. And it's a matter because you're never going to do the study. Nobody's going to do that study. It was going to fund it. You just have to trust it and you know that omega threes are safe. So that's, I mean, there's the benefit.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's no downside.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

There's no downside. So what's, what's the problem? So take the chance. All the epidemiologic evidence, population evidence points to benefit.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So if you take Omega 3s, is it better to do it with food or without? With, or does it matter? With food.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

With food, yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because then you're not going to get the fish burps.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, that's true and I'm sure I haven't had your product, but I'm sure it's, it's high quality. You don't really get fish burps, but not with ours. Yeah, if you're taking an ethyl ester, the, the pharmaceutical omega 3 products are ethyl esters. So you can cram. Chemically, you can Cram more Omega 3 in one pill if it's an ethyl ester form, but those are poorly absorbed. If you don't take food, if you take just some empty stomach in the morning, blood levels don't go up.

[Interviewer/Host]

So, so if you're a person who's intermittent fasting, because I've had this conversation with a lot of people in my community when I post. Why aren't you taking them? You should be taking them in the morning. Because I don't eat in the morning. Because I just, I'm not hungry in the morning. I take other medication in the morning that I can't eat with.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

So because I don't eat that early, I end up taking my fish oil later.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Which. Perfect.

[Interviewer/Host]

Doesn't matter, right?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

No, I mean, we've done studies. You can take, you can take. If you look at how much you take in a given week, whether you take it every day. If you take the same amount in two slugs a week.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Same blood level. So you don't even have to take it every day. The fat, I mean, fats.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Very, very slow turnover.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How about with pain? Do omega 3 fatty acids help with pain?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

That's not well studied. There's been, look at headaches. There's been some suggestion that there's benefit. Headaches.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Because you would think if it's decreasing inflammation, it would help with pain.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

You would think. Yeah, but there's different.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I did the big NFL study when the NFL was sort of lying about traumatic brain injury and we didn't know and no, guys actually brand new textbook out saying you can see CTE before people are dead with studies like spec that I do. So I'm very excited about that. But when we, we put our so bad brains right. Playing football is a brain damaging sports. Stop lying about it. It is. But the exciting part of our study is, well, we wanted to see if we could make bad brains better and we did. 80% of our players got better. What we did is we put them on a great multiple vitamin, high dose, high quality fish oil. So it was three grams of EPA and DHA good and a brain boost that worked in six different ways. And that was it. Except told them that they were drinking or overweight. It's like, come on, you got to get your body healthy, 80% better. How very excited.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It's the season.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Two to six months. People will rescan two to six months later. And cognitively they were better. They had better blood flow to their frontal lobes.

[Interviewer/Host]

A lot of them lost a lot of weight.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But they would say to us, my arthritis is better.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I had just attributed that to the Omega 3s, but apparently there's not enough study.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, arthritis, I mean that you know, to your point about how do you feel? Well, I don't know about these guys. Don't want to lose weight if they're football. But anyway. But feeling Omega 3, that's I think if, if I hear anything, I never hear about going to nail salons and stuff, but I hear, I hear about people just feeling that their joints feel better.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. And sometimes, sometimes people aren't even, they, they're not even super articulate and can't define it, but they're like, I just feel better.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And that could be just decreased inflammation.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Or it just gets kind of a vague. There's nothing.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It's like not like scurvy, when you all of a sudden your teeth start falling out. You know, it's, it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

They just know that they just feel better when they wake up.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Generally better. Yeah. So that wouldn't necessarily take years. That would, I think take months.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What do you see for the Omega 3 story 10 years from now, 20 years from now, if you had to predict based on your decades of research?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Well, I think medically I, I hope to see a test like the omega 3 index and have to be that one as part of a standard medical work. Yearly workup. Yeah, I mean it's, it is a risk factor for a variety of things. It's a very modifiable risk factor. It's a very safe, you can safely modify. You don't have to take drugs and that would help tremendously if it would just get into the medical community. It's been a hard cell because it's nutrition.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which is so interesting to me, because we know how important nutrition is. If we give pregnant mothers prenatal vitamins that contain, you know, fish oil. Why is this even a discussion? We know nutrition matters. It's very confusing.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

It is confusing. And there's so much inertia. I mean, I'm not telling you anything. You've been down this road dealing with your colleagues. But that would be one of my hopes in 10 or 20 years that this is, is a much more standard. And there's, there's a few labs that offer this thing, offer a, an omega 3 test, not, not the red blood cell one. But they, you know, God bless them for doing anything. I'm, that's, I'm happy with that. I think we're going to have omega 3 sources that are, don't require killing any fish that will be grown from plants. They're doing like algae that we talked about. Well, not even algae. Land plants, soybean. You can genetically modify soybean to have it produce higher, longer chain omega threes, and you grow it with roots, you can grow anywhere. And there's a variety of different cultivars that they're using now. But it's genetic engineering, so you got to get over the GMO thing, you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Know, but you're have a whole tribe of people.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, well, I don't know gmo. I say it's always, you know, it's bad. Well, you got to take it on a case by case basis here. You know something, if, if a genetically modified product produces an oil that has more Omega 3 in it, don't worry about the oil. It's going to be safe. It's okay. In any event, I think we're going to get to where we, we have. There's such a demand for Omega 3, there's such a need for it all over the world. We can't do it. Despite. Do we take all the fish out of the sea? We can't do it. Algae is one way to do it. Where you can, you know, just build a, an incubator in Arkansas, you know, and throw in a bunch of sugar and throw these bugs in and they make omega threes. It's pretty crazy, but that's kind of a high, it's expensive way of doing it. But if you can get a crop, a seed crop that actually would produce Omega 3 and you could harvest it and protect them from oxidation, you have a great source of this stuff. And so we. And it can be put. It can be deodorized now and be put into all kinds of like fortification of food, like, like adding iodine to salt.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Is there any good powdered source of omega 3s?

[Dr. Bill Harris]

There's some powdered omega 3 thinks. Yeah. Yeah, that can be. And there's some, some liquids that are completely transparent, clear that they're completely homogenized and emulsified into the liquid. And then you get a. You don't have to.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, we have something called Omega 3 Power Squeeze, which is just delicious.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's like orange flavor thing.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great way for kids. Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And they don't mind like that.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Yeah, they like it. My grandkids love it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

At Amen clinics, you're not just seeing one doctor. You're getting a team with over 50 specialists, including psychiatrists, naturopaths, nutritionists and therapists. We treat the whole. You learn [e-mail] well, goodness, this was so helpful. We're here with Dr. Bill Harris, who is the founder and CEO of OmegaQuant. The Omega 3 Index, a test we use here at Amen clinics. I love when I get mine done because I take Omega 3 power and it seems to work really well.

[Dr. Bill Harris]

Probably going to break my test with your blood.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You're listening to change your brain every day. Go to OmegaQuant.com learn more about Dr. Harris. Subscribe Leave us a comment question or a review. And you know, I always talk about know your important health numbers. Your omega 3 index is one of the most important health numbers you can know. And if it's low, you can do something about it right away. Thanks for watching.