Podcast Summary: Charlie's Place – Episode 5: "All Costs"

Host: Reem Gisé
Produced by: Pushkin Industries, Atlas Obscura, and Rococo Punch
Date: August 18, 2025

Episode Overview

"All Costs" concludes the five-part series on Charlie Fitzgerald and the legendary night club, Charlie’s Place, in 1940s Myrtle Beach. This episode dives deep into the harrowing night the Ku Klux Klan attacked Charlie’s Place, the immediate and long-term aftermath for Charlie, for his wife Sarah, and for the Black community that rallied around this beacon of joy and integration in the face of Jim Crow oppression. Vivid personal accounts, rare FBI records, and powerful community memories guide listeners through an unforgettable story of violence, trauma, survival, and defiance, laying bare the real price paid for challenging America’s racial lines.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Night of the Klan Raid

Timestamps: 02:00–12:44

• Setting the Scene:
  Saturday night, August 26, 1950. Detailed FBI records and eyewitness testimony paint a tense evening as 26 carloads of white-robed Klansmen parade through Myrtle Beach.

  • "There were men inside the cars in white robes... Some of them have rifles on their shoulders, some are carrying pistols..." – Dino (03:22)

• Leadership of Hate:
  The raid is organized by Thomas Hamilton, Grand Dragon of the Carolinas KKK, with help from local officials.

  • "He started pushing this thing because blacks and whites were partying together..." – Local Historian/Narrator (04:18)
  • Rumors of "white girls and black men" relationships are spread to stoke outrage.

• Show of Force and Intimidation:
  Klansmen confront the club, shout racist threats on a bullhorn, and promise to return at midnight.

  • "Somebody had a bullhorn and said, 'We'll be back to see y’all. The N word.'" – Dino (06:01)
  • "They intimidated everybody and they left." – Dino (06:14)

• Call for Protection, and Betrayal:
  Charlie calls his friend, Police Chief Carlisle Newton, but Newton isn’t there—possibly foiling a chance for protection. Instead, the warning may have been intercepted by Klansmen within the police.

  • "There were police officers in white hoods in that Klan parade." – Reem Gisé (07:46)
  • "That was an excuse he needed to go back." – Local Historian/Narrator (08:04)

• Attack and Aftermath:
  The Klan returns in force, forms a military-style skirmish line, and assaults the club.

  • "They lined up like soldiers... weapons, bats, whips—one of their symbols." – Local Historian/Narrator, Dino (08:32–08:47)
  • Charlie attempts to minimize violence:
    "Charlie played hero. Now, he knew he could have been killed..." – Local Historian/Narrator (09:29)

• Charlie Confronted and Abducted:

  • "He said, 'I run the place. My name is Charlie.' ... And then they knocked him out cold." – Reem Gisé (09:50)
  • Charlie is beaten, thrown in a car trunk, and the club is shot up and ransacked. Reports say between 300 and 500 shots are fired. A Klansman (a Conway police officer) is killed during the chaos.

2. Trauma, Community Impact, and Silence

Timestamps: 13:12–16:47

• The Day After and Lingering Fear:

  • No one knows where Charlie was taken; rumors swirl that he has been killed.
  • Ms. Pat’s testimony about seeing her boss' KKK robe at home is particularly chilling.
    • "'He talking about the suit her daddy wear to kill Charlie...'" – Ms. Pat (13:45)
    • "All I could do was cry." – Ms. Pat (14:08)

• Long-Lasting Trauma:

  • Families, especially children, are left in fear and confusion.
  • "She said, 'Don't let them come in this house.' ... She experienced that night. That night must have traumatized her." – Frankie & Reem Gisé (15:28–16:05)

• Reflection on Violence:

  • "That incident was what many of us consider the ugliest black molar in our local history. Just pure evil and ugly." – Dino (16:06)
  • "Don't take anything for granted." – Herbert (16:18)
  • Many never fully recover, yet find strength to rebuild.

3. Charlie’s Ordeal, Survival, and FBI Testimony

Timestamps: 16:47–25:26

• Charlie's First-Person Testimony (from FBI records):

  • Subjected to a mock execution, beaten over 80 times with a whip, interrogated, and forced to promise never to return.
    • "The men then took turns in beating me with what felt like a bullwhip. I counted over 80 licks before they began to ask me anything..." – Charlie (17:40–19:00)
  • They "notch" his ear—a Klan mark of violence—but he escapes during the chaos and is helped by a friend.
  • Sheriff Sasser, considered Charlie's ally, shelters him for safety but is later voted out of office for defending him.
    • "I've never known a straighter white man in my life." – Charlie on Sasser (20:24)
    • "He lost his seat... lost to a known Klan sympathizer." – Reem Gisé (21:38)

• Rumors and Assumptions:

  • Many think Charlie died that night; secrets are kept for years to protect families.
    • "As a child, I heard his ears were cut off..." – Dino (24:04)
    • Charlie returns months later, scars concealed:
      "He swooped me up and said, 'You looking at my ears, boy? No, sir, no, sir. I got ears.'" – Dino (24:37)

4. Retaliation, Resilience, and Sarah’s Leadership

Timestamps: 25:26–29:52

• Klan Unbowed, Legal Injustice:

  • Attackers, including Grand Dragon Hamilton, are arrested but quickly cleared.
  • Charlie is arrested for carrying a gun in self-defense.
    • "I'm a free man and I'm not a free man. I don't know who is or who isn't a member of the Klan." – Charlie (26:58)

• Sarah Fitzgerald’s Strength:

  • Sarah steps up and manages the club, booking legendary musicians and protecting the business.
    • "After the Klan raid, til that place closed, she had to manage that place... She had to be tough in a man's world." – Local Historian/Narrator (27:30)
    • She becomes the key figure, beloved by artists and community.

• The Symbolic Power of Survival:

  • The club’s continued operation stands as defiance—a community’s refusal to let hate win.
    • "For black people... the fact that the big artists kept coming... it meant that the Klan’s terrorism wasn’t the end of the story. Instead, the attack was a moment of defiance, of resistance." – Reem Gisé (29:03–29:52)

5. Memory, Retaliation, and Generational Change

Timestamps: 29:52–34:45

• Defiance Carried Forward:

  • The attack shapes a "never again" mentality in the next generation.
    • "We weren't gonna let it happen again... We was in trees and in the woods on Carver street waiting on them to come. We were gonna destroy 'em." – Frankie (31:44)
  • A rumored second attack in the 1970s never materializes because the community is visibly armed and ready.

• Charlie’s Decline and Passing:

  • Charlie dies of lung cancer in 1955.
    • "He used to walk around with a breathing tank." – Herbert (32:53)
  • Sarah keeps Charlie’s Place open for a decade more before finding religion and closing it for good.
    • "She never wanted to talk about it. She walked away from that part of her life..." – Dino (33:52)

• Erasure and Reluctance to Share:

  • Trauma and fear of retaliation mean many elders don’t share the full story with their children.
    • "This is what terrorism does... It’s about putting fear in somebody. And it frightened the people in this community so badly that they didn’t tell their children..." – Local Historian/Narrator (36:15)

6. Preservation and Legacy

Timestamps: 37:11–39:52

• Charlie’s Place Nearly Lost, But Saved:

  • In 2016, plans to demolish the last remaining Fitzgerald house are halted after activists and councilman Mike Chestnut intervene.
    • "My phone started ringing off the hook... We need to save it... we stopped the demolition that day." – Local Historian/Narrator (37:35)
  • The property becomes a landmark, museum, and site for the annual Myrtle Beach Jazz Fest.
  • "Today, there’s a small business incubator in the old inn, and the Fitzgerald’s house still stands as a museum, a love letter to that time..." – Reem Gisé (37:53)

• The Enduring Power of Music and Space:

  • Jazz Fest brings a diverse crowd to the very ground where Sarah and Charlie’s dream began.
    • "On nights like this... it’s clear this is what Charlie and Sarah fought for. A place where everyone could experience the music. No matter who you are or what you look like..." – Reem Gisé (39:39)

7. The Image of Defiance

Timestamps: 40:20–42:05

• Charlie’s Return, an Act of Resistance:

  • Roddy Brown recalls seeing Charlie on the white beach after the attack, a symbol of quiet, persistent defiance.
    • "A lone black man on a crowded white beach in summer, flagrantly defying the rules. An image of what might be possible." – Reem Gisé (40:57)

• Ms. Pat’s Roots:

  • Ms. Pat’s deep love for Myrtle Beach, evidence of the generational ties and pride within the community.
    • "It was nice growing up in Myrtle Beach, and I never wanted to leave home..." – Ms. Pat (41:20)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "He swooped me up and said, 'You looking at my ears, boy? ... I got ears.'" – Dino, reliving the trauma and relief at seeing Charlie alive (24:37)
• "I've never known a straighter white man in my life." – Charlie, about Sheriff Sasser’s rare allyship (20:24)
• "I'm a free man and I'm not a free man. I don't know who is or who isn’t a member of the Klan." – Charlie, on living with constant danger (26:58)
• "We were young... We weren't gonna let it happen again. We said, we'll never let them come through here." – Frankie, on generational resolve (31:44)
• "For Black people, the fact that Charlie’s place survived... meant that the Klan’s terrorism wasn’t the end of the story." – Reem Gisé (29:03)
• "A lone Black man on a crowded white beach... flagrantly defying the rules. An image of what might be possible." – Reem Gisé (40:57)

Legacy and Lessons

• Defiance and Community Strength:
  Charlie Fitzgerald, Sarah, and the Carver Street community stood up to hate and intimidation, surviving a traumatic attack and finding ways to rebuild and celebrate joy.

  • "Charlie Fitzgerald returns to the very space where he defied the Klan and stayed there until his death." – Professor Bobby Donaldson (29:52)

• Silence, Memory & Healing:
  The trauma led many to silence, but collective memory has kept the story alive.

• Preserving History:
  Community action saved Charlie’s Place from erasure; it now stands as a living testament to resilience, music, and possibility.

• Enduring Inspiration:
  Nights at Jazz Fest, gatherings, and local pride echo the spirit Charlie and Sarah created:

  • “This is what Charlie and Sarah fought for. A place where everyone could experience the music… an echo of what they built is here." – Reem Gisé (39:39)

Useful Timestamps

• KKK Parade & Threats: 02:00–06:32
• Second Klan Attack: 08:04–12:44
• Charlie's Ordeal and FBI Statement: 16:47–21:38
• Community Trauma/Children’s Memories: 15:28–16:18
• Charlie’s Return (months later): 24:04–24:37
• Sarah Takes Over the Club: 27:30–29:03
• Saving Charlie’s Place as a Landmark: 37:11–37:53
• Modern Jazz Fest and Charlie’s Legacy: 39:39–41:44

This episode closes on Ms. Pat’s front porch, her voice carrying the spirit of Charlie’s Place into the present—a legacy of resistance, love, and music that endures, still sparking possibility for future generations.