Why is it that an ephemeral arrangement of sounds can move us to tears, while the exact same sequence might sound like chaotic noise to someone from another culture?

Reader in Cognitive Science at Queen Mary University of London and Honorary Professor of Neuroscience at Aarhus University, Dr. Marcus Pearce joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked significance of our brain's probabilistic predictions.

Dr. Pearce explores the computational mysteries of how we process sound in his book, Learning to Listen, Listening to Learn: Music Perception and the Psychology of Enculturation. They examine how our pleasure in music stems from an ingrained psychological drive to predict the future, and how understanding this can help us map out cultural evolution.

In this conversation they explore:

How our brains act as statistical prediction machines, constantly building internal models to anticipate the next note for an evolutionary survival advantage.
The surprising realization that the perception of consonance and dissonance is not biologically universal, as shown by differing reactions in cultures like the Chimane of Bolivia.
Why the pleasure we derive from music relies on an "inverted U-shaped" relationship, where a balance between predictable patterns and complex surprises maximizes our enjoyment.
The use of interpretable probabilistic AI models, rather than "black box" neural networks, to better understand how a listener's perception matures within a musical tradition.
How music acts as a safe training ground for humans to vicariously experience complex emotional states and hone cognitive processes without real-world risk.
The role of cultural evolution in music, explaining why groundbreaking, highly complex composers like Stravinsky were initially rejected by audiences before eventually becoming standard repertoire.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in cognitive science, evolutionary psychology, and musicology who wants to understand the biological weight behind our favorite songs and how we process the beautifully complex structures of human sound.

Make sure to check out Dr. Pearce's book: Learning to Listen, Listening to Learn: Music Perception and the Psychology of Enculturation 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0198848005/

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud.

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Marcus Pearce
0:49 Why Music is Universal
1:38 How Music Perception Theories Miss Global Cultural Diversity
4:19 Cultural Examples of Consonance, Dissonance, and Musical Pleasure
7:28 AI Modeling of Music Perception through Statistical Learning
10:48 Why Use Probabilistic Models Instead of Neural Networks
14:47 The Markov Assumption and Limits of Local Musical Prediction
17:26 Non-Local Musical Structure, Themes, Keys, and Listener Memory
20:57 How Simple Probabilistic Models Explain Surprising Amounts of Listening
22:57 Complexity, Predictability, and the Inverted "U" Of Musical Pleasure
27:32 Learning Progress Theory and Why We Enjoy Moderate Uncertainty
33:34 Cultural Evolution of Music From Stravinsky to Modern Film Editing
38:07 Musical Training, Individual Differences, and Complexity Preferences
41:44 How Music Evokes Emotion, Arousal, and Valence
47:59 Closing Thoughts