Can You Eat or Meditate Your Way to Less Pain?

Summary

Chasing Life – "Can You Eat or Meditate Your Way to Less Pain?"

Host: Dr. Sanjay Gupta (with producer Kira)

Date: September 9, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of Chasing Life, Dr. Sanjay Gupta answers listener questions about the connections between diet, meditation, and pain management. Drawing from recent research and personal experiences, Dr. Gupta explains how food choices and mindfulness practices can influence inflammation and chronic pain. The episode is rich in practical advice, scientific context, and encouragement for self-awareness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Food, Inflammation, and Pain

(Segment begins at 02:09)

• Karen’s Question:
  Which foods and drinks can help reduce pain, and which should be avoided?

• Inflammation Explained:

  • Chronic (persistent, low-level) inflammation is implicated in many diseases (heart disease, diabetes, depression, Alzheimer’s) and can worsen pain.
  • Immediate inflammation is protective, but chronic inflammation is harmful.

• Pro-Inflammatory Foods (Best to Limit/Avoid):

  • Added sugars
  • Refined carbohydrates
  • Fried foods
  • Red and processed meats
  • Sodas and other sugary beverages

• Anti-Inflammatory Foods (Helpful Choices):

  • Fresh, whole, unprocessed, plant-based foods
  • “Eat the rainbow” – strive for various colored plants on your plate
  • Make half your plate plants
  • Low-glycemic foods (beans, lentils, whole grains like wheat, oats, rye)
  • Plant-based proteins: beans, lentils, tofu, soy
  • Animal proteins in moderation: fish, poultry, eggs, dairy (e.g., yogurt, cheese)

• Spices for Inflammation:

  • Paprika, rosemary, ginger, turmeric, sage, cumin

• Personal Responsiveness & Food Sensitivities:

  • Dr. Gupta advises listeners to keep a food journal to track any personal food-pain correlations.

    “Oftentimes you’re going to be the best judge of foods that are particularly good or potentially problematic for you.” (04:44)

• Hydration Matters:

  • Staying well-hydrated supports anti-inflammatory actions in the body.

Memorable Quote:

“Try and make half your plate plants. If you’re doing that, you’re probably getting a lot of anti-inflammatory foods... And don’t forget spices.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (03:22)

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2. Meditation, Mindfulness, and Chronic Pain

(Segment begins at 06:55)

• Evelyn’s Question:
  Can meditation or deep breathing help manage chronic lower back pain?

• Chronic vs. Acute Pain:

  • Acute pain = short-term, signals immediate harm (e.g., touching a hot stove).
  • Chronic pain = pain lasting 3+ months, no clear protective purpose.
  • Notably, “all pain originates in the brain.” (07:37)
  • External factors (mood, past trauma, food) influence the brain’s pain perception.

• Mind-Body Research:

  • 2005 Harvard/Mass General study found cortex thickening in regular meditators.

  “People who had this thicker cortex showed stronger cognitive skills, stronger memory, but they also found an association with better control of chronic pain.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (08:00)

• Practical Evidence:

  • Dr. Gupta recounts participating in an experiment on pain and meditation.

    “It was kind of remarkable... after I meditated, I didn’t even feel one of the pulses, which was incredible. My pain scores dropped significantly. The unpleasantness scores dropped significantly.” (09:26)

• Expert Data:

  • Dr. Eric Garland: A single meditation session can give pain relief “similar to 5mg of Oxycontin” for a short period. (09:56)
  • Meditation, breathing, and even prayer can trigger neurobiological responses reducing pain.

• Box Breathing Technique:

  1. Inhale through nose (count to four)
  2. Hold breath (count to four)
  3. Exhale through mouth (count to four)
  4. Hold (count to four)
  5. Repeat

Memorable Quote:

“Meditation, I think, objectively, measurably, and from a scientific perspective, can absolutely help with your pain.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (09:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Food Choices:

  “What we choose to eat and drink is a conscious decision... We need to do it very, very diligently because how we nourish ourselves affects lots of things, obviously, including pain.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (02:12)

• On Inflammation:

  “Chronic inflammation... is believed to be at the root of many diseases, heart disease, type 2 diabetes, depression, even Alzheimer’s. And also can exacerbate pain conditions.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (02:44)

• On the Brain’s Role in Pain:

  “That does not mean [pain is] all in your head. But it does mean there are a lot of things that can affect your pain.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (07:37)

• On Meditation’s Power:

  “The idea of thickening certain areas of the brain to make you more resilient to pain... Meditation has been shown to thicken those areas.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (08:10)

• On Personal Data & Self-Awareness:

  “Keeping a food journal... you may be the best judge of foods that are particularly good or potentially problematic for you.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (04:44)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:09 — Anti-inflammatory vs. pro-inflammatory foods, and practical dietary guidelines
• 04:44 — The importance of tracking your own food triggers
• 06:55 — Introduction to meditation and mindfulness for chronic pain management
• 07:37 — Pain is processed in the brain; non-physical contributors to pain experience
• 08:00 – 09:30 — Scientific evidence on meditation’s brain benefits, Dr. Gupta’s personal experiment
• 09:56 — Dr. Garland’s “5mg Oxycontin” comparison
• 10:50 — Box breathing technique explained

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Tone & Wrap-Up

Dr. Gupta’s style remains warm, reassuring, and practical. He emphasizes small, actionable changes (“eat your plants”) and empowers listeners to experiment and self-reflect. The advice is science-backed but relatable, drawing on both research and lived experience.

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If you haven’t listened, this episode’s main takeaway is clear:

• Diet: Prioritize plant-based, colorful, whole foods and mindful hydration to reduce inflammation and pain.
• Mindfulness: Meditation, deep breathing, and attentiveness can change the brain’s response to chronic pain, providing real relief for some.

Quote to Remember:

“Your pain is in the brain. Your brain decides if you have pain. And it can also create pain even in situations where it shouldn’t... But that also means we can use the brain to our advantage.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (08:17)

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Transcript

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Welcome to Paging Dr. Gupta. I love this podcast because I get to hear from you, I get to hear your questions and then I get to answer them. We dig into the science, we do our homework, we talk to experts to try and provide you with the best answers and hopefully some news you can use. Kira is back with us. Who do we have first?

[Kira]

Hey, Sanjay. So at the top of the inbox today is a question from Karen who wrote in to ask about the effects of diet on pain. She wants to know which foods and drinks she should limit or eliminate and which are actually helpful.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Okay, Karen, this is a great question. It's something that I think about all the time. I think a lot of people are curious about this and luckily there's a fair amount of research on this. So get out your notebook and I'm going to tell you what we know after this short break.

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[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Okay, Karen, it is fair to say that food can impact pain. That's sort of a headline. But keep in mind as you think about this, that what we choose to eat and drink is a conscious decision that we're making about how we choose things from our outside world to put into our inside world, from our environment into our bodies. We make that choice and we need to do it very, very diligently because how we nourish ourselves affects lots of things, obviously, including pain. Now, one of the things that's at the root of all this is something called inflammation, which you have heard of, no doubt. Inflammation often gets a bad rap, but it's an important part of the body's healing process. What we're really talking about is chronic inflammation, which is inflammation that is relentless and just won't go away even at low levels. It's believed to be at the root of many diseases, heart disease, type 2 diabetes, depression, even Alzheimer's. And also can exacerbate pain conditions. Now there are certain foods that are known to be pro inflammatory sugar. Foods that contain a lot of added sugar, refined carbohydrates, fried foods, red and processed meats, sodas. No surprise those foods are going to inflame you more than other foods. The flip side is there are foods that are more anti inflammatory, fresh, whole, unprocessed foods, plant based foods. Look, if you're looking at your plate, as a general rule, try and make half the plate plants. That's a rule of thumb. But if you do that, you're probably getting a lot of anti inflammatory foods. Pick foods with a low glycemic load, lots of antioxidants and limit your sugar. Think about beans, lentils, legumes. If you're eating whole grains, then wheat, oats, rye, plant based proteins, you need proteins, but you can get proteins in plants as well. Beans, lentils, tofu, soy. If you're eating animal protein, then try and do that in moderation and think more towards fish, poultry, eggs and dairy, including yogurt and cheese. One thing that I've always thought of is trying to eat the rainbow of foods. So eat as many different colored foods as you can. If you're doing that, you're probably getting a lot of the good stuff that you want out of foods. And don't forget spices. Spices can have a lot of anti inflammatory properties. Paprika, rosemary, ginger, turmeric, sage, cumin. Now one thing I do want to point out, besides the inflammation story when it comes to pain, is that you may have sensitivities to certain foods, allergies, even to certain foods. And one of the things that you might be feeling as a result of that is pain. Something you can do. Something that I suggest doing is keep a food journal to sort of track if any foods might be triggering certain pains. Whether they be migraines, gut pain, joint pain. Pay attention to this. What did I eat? Did I develop pain? How soon after did I develop pain? If I didn't eat it, did I not develop that same pain? Oftentimes you're going to be the best judge of foods that are particularly good or potentially problematic for you. But again, plants, don't forget to eat them. We don't eat enough plants. Try and make half your plate plants. Finally Karen, don't forget to hydrate. Staying properly hydrated supports a range of the anti inflammatory actions that that I've just talked about. Supports a lot of different functions in the body. Hope that helps Karen, eat your plants. Hopefully keep out of pain when we come back. Can meditation help control pain?

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[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Okay, Kira, I hear the pager. Who's next?

[Kira]

Okay, so Evelyn from Florida wrote in about having chronic lower back pain after a fall that happened 14 years ago. And Sanjay, she wants to know if meditation or deep controlled breathing can help her better manage the pain.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Evelyn, thank you for writing in. And first of all, I'm sorry to hear that nearly 21% of adults in this country live with chronic pain. It's a staggering number. It's 51 million people. And on a personal note, my mom also had a fall last year, broke a bone in her back. It was her L1 bone, first bone in her lumbar spine. And her pain was terrible. It was just unbearable for her. Luckily, she's doing a lot better. But I can really empathize with what you're talking about, Evelyn. First of all, chronic pain, I do want to point out, is different than acute pain. Acute pain is like, for example, when you touch a hot stove, it hurts and you don't do it again. It teaches you a lesson. It protects you. Chronic pain, as a general rule, is the type that lasts at least three months and biologically speaking, does not seem to serve a purpose. Not one that we can figure out easily anyway. Keep in mind, Evelyn, that all pain originates in the brain. That does not mean it's all in Your head. But it does mean that there are lots of things that can affect your pain. Seemingly arbitrary things. What you just ate, your current mood, what the weather's like, whether you have a past history of anxiety, depression, childhood trauma. All these things go into this mix in the brain. And then the brain decides, does something hurt? Does something continue to hurt? And when it comes to chronic pain, oftentimes it may be a pain episode that just keeps getting replayed over and over in the brain. But the point is that your pain is in the brain. Your brain decides if you have pain. And it can also create pain even in situations where it shouldn't. For example, phantom limb pain. Can you imagine? You don't even have the limb anymore, and yet it still hurts. That's your brain. And I think that brings us to what you're asking about the brain, mindfulness practices and pain. Back in 2005, researchers at Harvard's Mass General Hospital published this imaging study showing something really important, that particular areas of the brain, specifically the cortex, the outer layer of the brain, was thicker in people who meditated. Now, that was important because we had objective evidence, measurable evidence of the impact of meditation. Anecdotally, we knew it could help people, but now we actually saw these changes in the brain, thick brain people, if you will. People who had this thicker cortex showed stronger cognitive skills, stronger memory, but they also found an association with better control of chronic pain. So this idea of thickening certain areas of the brain to make you more resilient to pain has been shown, and meditation has been shown to thicken those areas of the brain. So you see where I'm going with this. Meditation, breathing exercises, even prayer, all seem to trigger these responses in the body, which can lead to benefits in the brain and hopefully decreasing your pain. You know, I went through this exercise myself recently for a documentary that we worked on called it doesn't have to Hurt. And it was fascinating. The exercise for me was basically putting my arm in a really, really hot environment with these heating filaments up to about 120 degrees, and then seeing what kind of pain scores I had and what kind of unpleasantness scores I had, and then doing the same thing again after a meditation, which I did with a guy named Eric Garland. And it was kind of remarkable when I had the pulses of heat the second time around after I meditated, I didn't even feel one of the pulses, which was incredible. My pain scores dropped significantly. The unpleasantness scores dropped significantly. So meditation, I think, objectively mentioned, measurably, and from a scientific perspective can absolutely help with your pain. Dr. Garland even puts a number on it. He says a meditation session like the one he talked me through can, for a period of time create pain relief similar to 5mg of Oxycontin. I thought that was pretty remarkable. No one is saying that it's going to cure your pain, and I don't want to suggest that. But for people who have chronic pain during the time that they're meditating, they can get significant relief of their pain. I think that's very optimistic. I think it's very inspiring and I think it makes the case again that pain resides in the brain. One thing I've talked about on the podcast before is something known as box breathing. This is a way to do deep breathing that basically allows you to activate your parasympathetic nervous system. Breathe in through your nose, slowly count to four and pay attention to the air as it's entering into your lungs. Hold your breath at that point, count to four, then breathe out through your mouth, counting to four and then hold that out breath for a count to four and repeat. So breathing in hold, breathing out hold and paying a lot of attention the whole time through Evelyn. I hope that helps. And everyone else. That's all the time we have for on today's episode. Thank you for sending in your questions. It is your curiosity that brings this show to life and I really appreciate it. So keep paging me with your questions. If there's something health related you've been wondering about, send it to us. We might answer it in next week's episode. Record a voice memo, email it to asksanjayn.com or give us a call 470-39608 and leave a message. Thanks for listening.

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[Audie Cornish]

This week on the Assignment with me, Audie Cornish. My guest is Larry Wilmore. He's a writer and producer who's worked on some of the most successful shows of the century. In Living Color, the Bernie Mac show, the Daily Show, Black Ish, Insecure. We're just naming a few. But in his heart, he's still a comedian.

[Larry Wilmore]

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