Loading summary
Sleep Number Advertiser
There's a reason the sleep number smart bed is the number one best bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side. Sleep number does that. One side cooler and the other side warmer. Sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Sleep better together. Why choose a sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on our top selling i8 smart bed. Your best savings plus special financing limited time. Shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.
Sanjay Gupta
It's an industry that's slimming waistlines and creating huge profits.
Sleep Number Advertiser
New drugs used to treat diabetes and obesity.
Rashida Bush
There's Mounjaro.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
There's wegovy. There's Ozempic.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
Mojaro. That's what I use.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
There has been a weight loss revolution.
Lean Sorup
To lose 40, 60 pounds, your body feels better.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It's been fueled and popularized lately by high profile personalities. You've been working on your health.
Brian
No, that's ozempic.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
I'm down 50 pounds and social media.
Sanjay Gupta
Influencers but I am 55.2 freaking pounds down.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
You hear a lot of boasting of fast results and even calling these drugs a miracle. Thank you Jesus for these injections. What they are are a brand new class of medications that are fundamentally changing the way we think about weight and how to lose it. It's even changing the way we look at our own bodies and food itself.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
There has never been a more exciting time to to work within the field of obesity.
Karen Conde Knappe
Essentially, the more we make, the more gets used.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
But here are the questions. Are these blockbuster therapeutics the future or just another fad?
Rashida Bush
I looked at all the side effects and I said no. You thought not for me, not at all.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Are they safe or are they dangerous?
Sanjay Gupta
This is a full warehouse of problem drugs.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It's more than fool Sanjay. And the question for a lot of you, should you take them or leave them? Yep. We've talked about these medications on the podcast before, but we've decided to go deeper. We're gonna weigh in after a year long global investigation and I'm gonna begin by taking you to the place where this whole story started. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Here is part one. Is Ozempic right for you?
Sanjay Gupta
Welcome to Denmark. This is Copenhagen. Quiet canals, picturesque buildings, pretty laid back lifestyle. It's also a culinary capital. So many talented chefs and acclaimed restaurants call this place home. Which May leave you wondering. Why did we decide to start our story here? Well, that's because Copenhagen is also home to one of the scientists who helped identify a key ingredient that is now revolutionizing the entire weight loss industry. So do you still get excited coming into the lab?
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
I really do.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Meet Dr. Jens Joel Holtz. He's a scientist professor and am I.
Sanjay Gupta
Interviewing a future Nobel Prize winner?
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
That is not to be to decide. If it were to you to decide, please go on, do something about it.
Sanjay Gupta
How big a deal is his work in all of this?
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
I think it is a huge deal.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Dr. Giles Yeoh is one of the world's leading experts on obesity.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
There is never been a more exciting time to work within the field of obesity because of the tools that are now available to at least begin to tackle the problem.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
In the 1970s and early 80s, Jens and a small group of researchers around the world stumbled upon a hormone called glucagon. Like peptide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's now widely known as GLP1. At that time, though, they were actually looking for a solution to a totally different problem. It had nothing to do with obesity or diabetes.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
We were really, really busy with treating the bleeding ulcers.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Bleeding ulcers? That's right. The original thought was that GLP1 might protect the lining of the stomach and prevent the acid buildup that causes those ulcers. It was painstaking research. I mean, nowadays drug companies can quickly synthesize these hormones or they can rapidly ferment them in bulk like yogurt. But back then, however, none of that technology existed, so Jens had to harvest these hormones directly from nature.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
That's a little bit like the needle.
Sanjay Gupta
In the haystack when you're trying to isolate these hormones. First you do it in pigs.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
They took these 10,000 of intestines from pigs and ended up with 10 milligrams of substance, which. Which was the pure peptide hormone.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It was a lot of work for a very small amount. And after all that, they didn't even work. The hormones did not help treat the ulcers. But in 1986, scientists did notice something else. It was something unexpected. The hormones Jens helped discover seemed to be increasing insulin production and also decreasing another hormone, glucagon. Collectively, they could help lower your blood sugar. Obviously critically important for those with diabetes, a disease that by then was already on the rise, affecting more than 100 million people around the world. So Jens knew this could be big.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
He's a gruff Rottweiler. Don't let him know I said that.
Sanjay Gupta
Well, it is on tape.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
Oh, yeah. Okay.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
So the very persistent professor connected with researchers at a local pharmaceutical company. They had heard about his work. That company is now known as Novo Nordisk.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
They were curious about what we were doing.
Sanjay Gupta
They didn't believe it was there reluctance initially.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The old chemists, they said, why on earth should we bother with these stupid peptides? But they couldn't know that they were so good.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
At that time, to better understand how that hormone was modified to make one of the most popular prescription drugs in the world, we traveled half an hour outside of Copenhagen to Novo Nordisk headquarters. Right away we noticed something quite striking. The massive building itself is shaped like an insulin molecule. It reflects the fact that treating diabetes has been that company's primary mission for nearly 100 years. Novo Nordisk had most of their revenue come from insulin. So the question was, was there a.
Sanjay Gupta
Reluctance to do something that would take away from the insulin business?
John Venuti
Yeah, at the very beginning there was a lot of debate as to why we needed to do something more than insulin.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Karen Conde Knappe is senior VP of global drug discovery at Novo Nordisk.
John Venuti
But luckily for us, we have some, some very stubborn scientists that really kept saying, you know, we can apply the same learnings that we have done in modulating the insulin molecule to another molecule. And in this particular case, GLP1 was chosen.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
So welcome to our peptide lab.
Sanjay Gupta
All right, this is it.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
This is it.
Sanjay Gupta
This is where the magic happens.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It is. This is one of the labs where scientists now synthesize those GLP1 molecules. The there's no more pigs like in Yen's lab. Just a lot of high tech lab equipment.
Sanjay Gupta
How hard is it to make this medicine?
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Oh, wow, that's a difficult question, Sanjay. It's hard to manufacture it at a large scale, I would say. In fact, it took them decades. Their first GLP1 like drug for diabetes, a daily injection called Victoza, wasn't approved until 2010.
Sanjay Gupta
So what is the best part of living in Copenhagen?
Lean Sorup
The ambience.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Lean Sorup was one of the first people in the world to use this medication.
Lean Sorup
I tried what was called sort of the little sister of Ozempic called by Tosa.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
For her. It didn't work. Her blood sugars did not budge. Lean did not respond at all to that first generation daily injection. But everything changed seven years later. Oh, oh, oh. Novo Nordisk's second generation GLP1 like medication, a weekly injection called Ozempic, something almost everyone has now heard of. But at the time it was just a dream. A prayer.
Sanjay Gupta
What was your first thought? Pray that it works.
Lean Sorup
Yeah.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
At first, those prayers went unanswered, and the side effects were horrible.
Lean Sorup
The first time I tried Ozempic, I got really sick. It was like being seasick. I was actually panicking a little bit because. Because I knew once you injected yourself, it would be in your body for a whole week.
Sanjay Gupta
That sounds miserable.
Lean Sorup
So I had to stop very quickly. And then I tried again, and the side effects were worse. But then I had another break, and then I tried again, and then. Oh, finally it worked for me.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
For the first time in her life, Lean's diabetes stabilized. Her blood sugar normalized.
Lean Sorup
I was very relieved. Oh, finally this miracle medicine is working on me.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
And something else amazing happened. She lost weight, a lot of weight. 70 pounds in total. She called Ozempic the world's easiest diet.
Lean Sorup
It's easier than all the other failed diets I've been on. It's a good drug to start a journey.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
A good drug that helps diabetics pretty clearly. But what about all that weight loss? Was that some sort of fluke or could it help the obese as well who are not diabetic? Several pharmaceutical companies around the world got busy trying to answer that question.
Karen Conde Knappe
We started working on this. It was for type 2 diabetes. And then what we started to learn is that these medicines could have a very dramatic decrease in body weight.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Dr. Dan Skavronsky is the chief scientific officer at Eli Lilly. Now, during those early days, he, like so many others, was skeptical that a diabetes drug could be used to treat obesity.
Karen Conde Knappe
These molecules are injectable drugs, and at the time, it was thought that most patients wouldn't want to undergo injections for treatment of disease. Everyone who knew anything about the pharmaceutical business said, don't work on obesity drugs.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
To create the market for obesity drugs, I wouldn't have advised them to do it. Thank you very much.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
But for the man who helped start it all, he's sure happy they finally did.
Dr. Jens Joel Holtz
It started back in the 80s, but it has developed through the help of a lot. And it's been really great to be.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Part of that, part of a weight loss revolution.
Rashida Bush
Ready?
Dr. Giles Yeoh
And the lives now being changed. Might surprise you that when we come back. Hey there, it's Sanjay. You know, as the year winds down, I really just wanted to take a moment to thank you for listening to Chasing Life Podcast is something that came to me much later in life. I love the sound of a voice in my ear, and I'm so grateful that oftentimes you make that voice mine. Some of the numbers around podcasting are incredible. In 2024, CNN produced over 248,000 minutes and 4,000 hours of podcast content. And as I've learned, you listen to about 30 of those hours on my show alone. We're grateful about that. We're grateful that you make us part of your required listening every week, and I wanted to just wish you happy holidays and hope you have a great 2025.
Sleep Number Advertiser
This podcast is supported by Sleep Number There's a reason the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the number one bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side. Sleep Number does that one side cooler and the other side warmer. Sleep Number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Only Sleep Number Smart beds let you choose your ideal comfort and support your Sleep Number setting. Sleep Number Smart Beds learn how you sleep and provide personalized insights to help you sleep better. The new Sleep Number ClimateCool smart bed lets you adjust up to 15 degrees cooler on either side. It's perfect for couples who struggle with sleeping too hot. Sleep better together. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on our top selling i8 smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a Sleep Number store near you see store or sleepnumber.com for details.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
I lost 50 pounds in six months. I was fat and that's when I.
Rashida Bush
Decided to go to Jenny Craig.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It was the early 1990s and Rashida Bush was a teenager being bombarded by these kinds of messages to lose weight.
Rashida Bush
I think there was just something internal or hormonal that just was not clicking right. I was exercising and limiting my food intake. I was doing everything that they said that you should do for her.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
The pounds came and stayed.
Rashida Bush
It would not budge at all. And so it makes you feel like a failure.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Rashida's story is sad and increasingly too familiar.
Rashida Bush
I just wanted to be invisible so it made me more quiet, more shy.
Sanjay Gupta
As a teenage girl that I have three of them. That must have been really, really hard.
Rashida Bush
Yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Even more difficult as she watched her then 15 year old son Brian deal with these very same issues.
Rashida Bush
There was one time where he had just come home from school and had a rough day. He just started crying and just saying that they were like picking on him, talking about his weight and I'm just telling him like, you're beautiful, Brian you're handsome. And he said, I'm not handsome. And that just broke my heart. That broke my heart.
Sanjay Gupta
Breaks my heart. Hear that? I'm sorry.
Brian
I was like, 370 at 13 years old.
Sanjay Gupta
370 pounds?
Brian
Yeah.
Sanjay Gupta
How did you feel when you weighed that much?
Brian
I actually felt bad for myself. I wouldn't want to go outside. I didn't want to. I just want to play with people and I just want to stay in the house. It was just like a little bit of depression, really. I also have social anxiety, too.
Rashida Bush
They make assumptions about what you're eating, how you're exercising, the choices that you make. It's an acceptable way to judge someone, and I think that's unfair.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
This stigma is something Dr. Giles Yeoh has been fighting, fighting his whole career.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
I was at a dinner and someone asked me, what do you do?
Brian
What do you do?
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
And I told him this. I said, I studied the genetics of obesity in children. And he said, do you know what your problem is? And he went, you give fat people an excuse. And that was. And actually still, by and large, is the response I get.
Sanjay Gupta
They're fat shaming, essentially.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
Pretty much the problem with body weight is that people think it's some kind of choice. If I said, I'm studying the genetics of cancer, no one is saying you're giving people with cancer an excuse, right? Never.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Over the years, the evidence has become increasingly clear on this. For so many people, obesity is not a choice.
Dr. Dan Skavronsky
We now know of over 1000 genes that play a role in our body weight. It's sort of like a thermostat, okay? Where for some people, a thermostat is set at whatever temperature it is in a house, whereas for other people, that thermostat is set slightly higher, slightly lower. And so if it's set higher and you end up having to eat more, you're going to be larger than someone else.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It's why obesity is now considered a disease not of the intestines or your stomach, but of the brain. It's a huge shift in the way that we think with huge implications for treatment. But these are still early days. And remember, at one time, even depression and addiction were seen as failures of willpower instead of a brain disease. Changing the perception of obesity, that's going to take time.
Karen Conde Knappe
It's definitely true that there are people out there who've said time and again, obesity is not really a disease. All you need to do is eat better and exercise more and. And you'll be okay.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Rashida was one of them. It has Taken her years to see past the promise of those weight loss ads, to see her weight as a disease in and of itself. Especially since she never had the serious health issues associated with a high body mass like diabetes or high blood pressure, fatty liver disease, heart disease, stroke.
Rashida Bush
I was 355. I didn't have like traditional health issues that you would have being overweight.
Sanjay Gupta
If somebody has a high BMI, but they have no other comorbidities, is it still a disease?
John Venuti
Some of the scientists in the field like to call it the happy obese. I am not necessarily believing in that concept. When you're looking at the individual, all the other parameters seem to be in check. That does not mean that this individual may not be in a progression towards developing these other comorbidities or other indications.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It's that progression. Rashida's doctor, John Venuti started to see in her. So he recommended Ozempic.
Karen Conde Knappe
She was starting to get prediabetes and her I thought it was a perfect opportunity to get her started.
Rashida Bush
I looked at all the side effects and I said, no. You thought, not for me, not at all.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
But then in 2020, everything changed.
Rashida Bush
If you were black, you were overweight, you had a greater risk to die.
Sanjay Gupta
From COVID So you went back to your doctor and said, let's try this.
Rashida Bush
Yes. I was like, I'm ready.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Rasheeda started with a low dose of Ozempic. She had no side effects, but no positive effects either. So her doctor increased the dose.
Rashida Bush
I couldn't keep anything down. I was throwing up water. I went to the hospital and got some fluids in me because I was dehydrated.
Sanjay Gupta
That sounds kind of scary.
Rashida Bush
It was pretty scary. But I had a different mindset at that point because it's like, I want to try it one more time and see if I'm still having the same side effect.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
And this time, something very different happened. Something she had never experienced before. In all those years of dieting.
Rashida Bush
What it did help me was not have a whole lot of thoughts about food. My cravings went away.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Those voices in her head that had made her crave food. Experts call it food chatter. They were silenced. And that is part of the magic of these new medications. GLP1 seems to act in a way that no other known hormone can. Here's how it seems to work. Every time you eat, all sorts of hormones are released. Like GLP1. They are called post nutrient hormones. They travel here to the hypothalamus in the brain to tell you that you are full or satiated they also travel over here to the pancreas to kick out more insulin to help absorb the energy you just consumed. And also over here to your gut to slow down the emptying, allowing you to better digest your food. In so many ways, it seems like the perfect hormone to help you stop eating as much. Seem perfect for Rashida. In that first year, she lost 100 pounds. It changed her life. And then in December of 2022, the FDA approved the weight loss medication called Wegovy for adolescents. Brian's doctor, a pediatric obesity specialist, recommended it. Now, to be clear, it did not come without concerns.
Rashida Bush
I have family members that don't think it's a wise choice. They just don't feel like it's a good thing.
Sanjay Gupta
Do you have any concerns about this medication?
Brian
The only concern, I'll say, is there any other side effects besides my stomach cramps? It's probably the only one.
Sanjay Gupta
How has your lifestyle changed on these medications, your diet, your activity?
Brian
I used to get seconds and thirds, so I don't get that no more. My mom, she tried to take away the processed foods and all that.
Sanjay Gupta
Do you miss those foods?
Brian
Um, not really.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
It was a reset, as Dr. Yeo would say, a reset of Brian's body and his mind, a reset of that thermostat. And this probably won't surprise you. As more young people have struggled with obesity and diabetes, the number of prescriptions in this age group for these new weight loss and diabetes drugs has skyrocketed nearly 600% since 2020.
Brian
It's like a new start for me. Basically. I feel like I can just do anything now.
Dr. Giles Yeoh
Brian and his mother have together lost more than 200 pounds. It was something they never thought possible, and I wish we could end the story there. But mother and son were about to embark on another fight. It's true, for many people, these medications do seem to transform their lives. But at the same time, they can come with significant complications. So next week, part 2 is ozempic right for your. We're going to talk about the challenges of staying on these weight loss drugs and also the perils of a growing counterfeit market.
Lean Sorup
If this one saves one more person or stops one more person from doing it, that's got to be a winner. That's got to be good.
Sanjay Gupta
Thanks for listening.
Sleep Number Advertiser
There's a reason the Sleep number Smart Bed is the number one best bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side. Sleep number does that. One side cooler and the other side. Warmer Sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Sleep better together. Why choose a sleep number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on our top selling i8 smart bed. Your best savings plus special financing limited time. Shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.
Podcast Information:
Dr. Sanjay Gupta sets the stage by highlighting the burgeoning industry around weight loss medications, particularly those originally developed for diabetes management. He remarks, “[00:46] It's an industry that's slimming waistlines and creating huge profits.” The conversation swiftly moves to specific drugs gaining popularity, such as Mounjaro, Wegovy, and Ozempic, with various experts sharing their experiences and insights.
Notable Quotes:
The episode delves into the scientific foundation of these weight loss drugs, focusing on GLP1 (Glucagon-Like Peptide-1) hormones. Dr. Jens Joel Holtz discusses the early research in Copenhagen, where GLP1 was initially studied for treating bleeding ulcers. Unexpectedly, scientists discovered that GLP1 could increase insulin production and decrease glucagon, making it effective in lowering blood sugar levels—a breakthrough for diabetes management.
Notable Quotes:
The narrative shifts to Novo Nordisk, a pharmaceutical giant renowned for its insulin products. Dr. Giles Yeoh and Sanjay Gupta visit Novo Nordisk’s headquarters, symbolically shaped like an insulin molecule, underscoring the company's longstanding commitment to diabetes treatment. Initially skeptical, the company’s leadership was convinced to explore GLP1’s potential beyond diabetes, leading to the development of Ozempic.
Notable Quotes:
Central to the episode are the personal stories of Rashida Bush and her son Brian, whose lives were profoundly impacted by Ozempic. Rashida recounts her long struggle with obesity and skepticism towards weight loss drugs. Initially reluctant due to side effects, her perspective changed during the COVID-19 pandemic when the risks of obesity became more apparent, prompting her to try Ozempic despite previous adverse reactions.
Notable Quotes:
Rashida’s persistence paid off as Ozempic not only stabilized her diabetes but also facilitated significant weight loss—70 pounds initially, followed by an additional 100 pounds. Brian, who struggled with obesity and social anxiety, also benefited, losing over 130 pounds alongside his mother. Their combined efforts culminated in a total weight loss of more than 200 pounds, transforming their lives and health outlook.
Notable Quotes:
The podcast addresses the shifting perception of obesity from a matter of personal choice to a recognized medical condition influenced by genetics and biology. Experts like Dr. Dan Skavronsky emphasize the genetic factors contributing to obesity, comparing body weight regulation to a thermostat with varying settings among individuals.
Notable Quotes:
Rashida’s journey underscores the emotional and psychological challenges faced by those with obesity, including societal judgment and internal struggles. Her advocacy highlights the importance of understanding obesity as a complex health issue rather than a simple result of lifestyle choices.
Notable Quotes:
While Ozempic has shown remarkable success in treating obesity, the episode also touches upon the challenges that accompany its widespread use. These include managing side effects, ensuring long-term efficacy, and combating the rise of counterfeit medications. The discussion anticipates further exploration in the next episode, promising to delve into the sustainability of weight loss achieved through such drugs and the regulatory hurdles posed by counterfeit markets.
Notable Quotes:
Dr. Gupta concludes the episode by acknowledging the life-changing potential of Ozempic for individuals like Rashida and Brian, while also hinting at the complexities and challenges that lie ahead. He invites listeners to return for part two, which will explore the difficulties of maintaining weight loss with these medications and the dangers posed by counterfeit versions flooding the market.
Notable Quotes:
For more insights and the continuation of this story, stay tuned for Part Two of "How Ozempic Transformed the Way We Look at Obesity."