Podcast Summary: Chasing Life — "How To Use Technology and Not Lose Our Minds"
Podcast: Chasing Life
Host: Dr. Sanjay Gupta (CNN Podcasts)
Guest: Baroness Professor Susan Greenfield (Neuroscientist, Author of "Mind: How Digital Technologies Are Leaving Their Mark on Our Brains")
Date: September 26, 2025
Duration: Approx. 30 minutes
Overview:
This episode delves into the profound question: How can we embrace digital technology and artificial intelligence in our lives without losing our minds—or our humanity? Dr. Sanjay Gupta speaks with neuroscientist and author Susan Greenfield about the impact of technology on the brain, human connection, and cognitive fulfillment. The conversation is deeply informed by both scientific understanding and lived experience, exploring both opportunities and challenges in our increasingly digital world.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Technology Through History: Fear and Adaptation
- Dr. Gupta opens by noting historic anxieties about new tech (radio, TV, writing), emphasizing the recurring pattern of social unease and adapting uncertainty. (00:03)
- Quote: “Even Socrates criticized writing, arguing it would create forgetfulness and weaken memory.” — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (00:26)
- Greenfield observes the current, unprecedented level of dependency on technology for daily functioning.
2. Technophile vs. Technophobe: Where Does Susan Greenfield Stand?
- “Call me Susan. Not in the slightest. We rely so heavily on everything that we assume it's going to be infallible. And of course, it never is.” — Susan Greenfield (02:59)
- She neither identifies as a technophile nor technophobe, viewing technology through the lens of her generation—which values direct, multisensory human connection. (03:15)
- Greenfield worries current generations may lose comfort and skill in face-to-face communication:
“The less you do it, the more aversive it becomes.” — Susan Greenfield (03:33)
3. The Brain’s Plasticity and the Impact of Digital Environments
- Greenfield details the concept of neuroplasticity—how the brain physically adapts to changing environments, such as the notable example of London taxi drivers’ enlarged hippocampus from memorizing city maps. (06:35)
- Quote: “If the environment is a very different environment, then the brain will be. I'm not saying it's good or bad... But I think there is a shorter attention span.” — Susan Greenfield (07:55)
- She underscores that the digital shift is a new phenomenon: technology now often substitutes for real-world experiences, not just enhances them.
4. Technology as an ‘Alternative Life’
- “In the old days, the technologies enriched and enhanced people's lives, whereas nowadays it's an alternative life.” — Susan Greenfield (10:08)
- Greenfield distinguishes between earlier technologies, which added dimensions to social and family life, versus today’s screens, which can replace lived, physical experiences.
5. Correlation vs. Causation in Mental Health and Technology
- Dr. Gupta and Greenfield discuss the complexities of attributing modern mental health issues to technology, acknowledging that while there's strong correlation, establishing causation is difficult (11:26).
- Greenfield references Jean Twenge’s research showing significant shifts in teen behaviors and school performance correlate with increased screen time (12:03).
6. Three Classic Prescriptions for Well-Being in the Digital Age
Greenfield’s advice for parents and individuals (12:48):
- Physical exercise: Boosts cognitive functioning, relieves stress, and can’t be done while on devices.
- Reading: Builds imagination, deeper attention spans, and inner worlds not readily shared or downloaded.
- Quote: “I think especially reading to kids, reading books, gives you a longer attention span and it enables you to have this secret inner world that no one else can share.” (13:12)
- Eating together without devices: Rituals and shared meals foster human connection, conversation, and the building of thought processes.
7. Making Technology Work ‘For Us’
- Post-commercial, Gupta shares a personal example of using cutting-edge wearables to maintain close connection with his daughters in college, reflecting on how technology can enhance real relationships when used thoughtfully (17:03).
- Greenfield acknowledges benefits, especially for those isolated, but emphasizes the importance of real-world fulfillment (18:00).
“I think you ask yourself, how much is this technology inhibiting or enabling me to have the best kind of life I can have?” — Susan Greenfield (18:48)
8. Learning, Knowledge, and the Digital World
- Greenfield differentiates fluid intelligence (memorization) from crystalline intelligence (connecting and contextualizing facts)—and worries that digital fact-hunting may not foster true learning or creativity.
“Facts are boring. It's how the facts are joined up that's interesting... that's how you have true knowledge rather than information.” (19:44–20:04)
9. Digital Natives, Social Media, and Balance
- Discussion of the “digital natives” generation—those who’ve never known a world without smartphones—and the struggle for balance (20:37).
- Greenfield stresses moderation and prioritizing real experiences:
“It's not so much they should or shouldn't use social media. I would say they should definitely have real world experiences and then everything else can step and chisel that in some way.” — Susan Greenfield (21:44)
10. Cognitive Reserve and Aging
- Greenfield introduces the idea of cognitive reserve: the more social engagement and real-life mental stimulation, the more resilient the brain becomes to dementia as we age (22:25).
“It's almost like having money in the bank... it offsets the ravages of [dementia].” (22:29)
11. Being Optimistic and Shaping the Future
- Greenfield expresses cautious optimism:
“I'm a glass half full person... we shouldn't ask what's going to happen in the future, we should ask how can we shape the future. It's in our hands to do something about it.” (23:14)
- She advocates for proactive engagement to ensure tech serves humanity’s needs.
12. Artificial Intelligence: Risks, Opportunities, and Soul-Searching
- Gupta highlights AI’s clinical potential—but also its pressure on humanity to reconsider what makes us fundamentally human (24:06).
- Greenfield echoes that it must remain a tool, not a master:
“We should be asking, what do we want AI to deliver? What do we want it to do? Will it make me a better person or not a better person?” (25:06)
13. Using Technology Wisely and Maintaining Individuality
- While Greenfield offloads mundane or data-heavy tasks to machines, she cautions:
“If I stand for anything, it's for being truly individual and living your life to the full. And I question whether parked in front of a screen for a large amount of time delivers that.” (26:13)
14. Addiction, Deepfakes, and Mistrust in AI
- Gupta raises concerns about tech being addictive, and the threat of AI-created deepfakes eroding trust in reality (27:39).
- Greenfield:
“If you know everything is suspect, why would you want to watch it in the first place?” (27:58)
15. Taking Control and Leading by Example
- Both discuss the irony of tech leaders shielding their own children from devices—emphasizing the need for environments richer and more compelling than digital ones (28:40).
- Greenfield shares the story of a father’s delight at hearing his children’s “spontaneous giggling” after a bike ride, noting:
“I never hear that noise when they're using technology.” (29:09)
Notable Quotes
- “The less you do [face-to-face communication], the more aversive it becomes.” — Susan Greenfield (03:33)
- “If the environment is a very different environment, then the brain will be.” — Susan Greenfield (07:55)
- “In the old days, the technologies enriched and enhanced people's lives, whereas nowadays it's an alternative life.” — Susan Greenfield (10:08)
- “Thinking is movement confined to the brain.” — Susan Greenfield (14:07)
- “I think you ask yourself, how much is this technology inhibiting or enabling me to have the best kind of life I can have? And that will vary clearly from person to person, but I'm sure a great factor in fulfillment is interacting in the real world.” — Susan Greenfield (18:48)
- "Facts are boring. It's how the facts are joined up that's interesting... that's how you have true knowledge rather than information." — Susan Greenfield (19:44)
- “It's not so much they should or shouldn't use social media. I would say they should definitely have real world experiences and then everything else can step and chisel that in some way.” — Susan Greenfield (21:44)
- “It's almost like having money in the bank... it offsets the ravages of [dementia].” — Susan Greenfield (22:29)
- “We shouldn't ask what's going to happen in the future, we should ask how can we shape the future." — Susan Greenfield (23:14)
- "Do not be in service of the machine." — Dr. Sanjay Gupta (27:36)
- “We are the masters... We are the ones that determine what kind of lives we want, what kind of world we want, how we're going to use [machines]...” — Susan Greenfield (28:19)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:03: Historical fears around new technology, opening theme
- 03:15: Greenfield’s wariness based on generational experiences
- 06:35: Brain plasticity explained via London taxi driver study
- 10:08: Difference between past technologies and current ‘alternative’ digital lives
- 12:48: Three classic prescriptions—exercise, reading, family meals
- 17:03: Gupta’s example of maintaining family connection via wearable tech
- 19:44: Knowledge versus information in modern education
- 21:44: Moderation and the importance of real-world experiences for youth
- 22:25: Social interaction, cognitive reserve, and resilience to dementia
- 23:14: Greenfield’s optimism and call to shape the future proactively
- 25:06: Questions to ask about AI’s role in our lives
- 27:36: Addictive design of tech, AI deepfakes, and the importance of trust
- 28:40: Tech leaders’ caution, the need to create more compelling offline environments
Closing Thoughts
The episode champions balanced, conscious engagement with technology—leveraging its strengths without ceding our sense of fulfillment, individuality, or real-world connection. Both guest and host stress that it’s within our power to steer our relationship to technology, to protect what is most fundamentally human even as we enter an AI-augmented future.
For more insight:
Read “Mind: How Digital Technologies Are Leaving Their Mark on Our Brains” by Susan Greenfield
Referenced expert: Jean Twenge, author of “iGen”