Lead Poisoning: What We Learned on the Ground in Milwaukee

Summary

Chasing Life: Lead Poisoning—What We Learned on the Ground in Milwaukee

Introduction

In the May 13, 2025 episode of Chasing Life, CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta tackles a pressing public health issue: lead poisoning in Milwaukee’s public schools. Drawing from his on-the-ground reporting, Gupta sheds light on the severity of the problem, its sources, and the community’s response. This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented in the episode.

The Milwaukee Lead Crisis

Dr. Gupta begins by outlining the alarming situation in Milwaukee, where approximately 1,000 children annually test positive for lead poisoning. The root cause is traced to aging infrastructure, particularly buildings constructed before 1978 that still house students today.

Key Findings:

• Source Identification: Initial investigations linked elevated lead levels in children to paint containing lead in school bathrooms. This discovery was noteworthy as it marked the first time lead poisoning was directly connected to school facilities rather than homes.
• Widening Scope: Following the first case, three more children tested positive, and eight schools were found to have unsafe lead levels. At Westside Academy, affected students had to be relocated due to red flaking paint and pervasive lead hazards inside the school.

Quotes:

• Reporter: "Any building built before 1978 in America probably has lead-based paint in it, which could poison kids." [02:09]
• Dr. Sanjay Gupta: "It's a challenging problem. I just got back from that assignment and I wanted to share some of our reporting with you." [01:12]

Interviews with Health Officials

Dr. Gupta interviews Dr. Mike Todoraitis, Milwaukee’s Commissioner of Health, to gain deeper insights into the crisis.

Insights from Dr. Mike Todoraitis:

• Sweetness of Lead Paint: "These shavings of paint, they're sweet. They taste sweet. Is that why kids eat them?" [03:19]
• Health Impacts: "It gets absorbed into the bloodstream and can cause long-term cognitive delays and behavioral issues." [03:34]
• Resource Constraints: While the team is sufficient for immediate responses, long-term investigations lack support due to the layoff of the CDC team focused on childhood lead exposure. [03:48]

Quotes:

• Dr. Mike Todoraitis: "It gets absorbed into the bloodstream and can cause long-term cognitive delays and behavioral issues." [03:37]
• Reporter: "We are working with urgency and we are not sparing any expense because one student with lead is too many." [05:44]

Community and Administrative Response

The episode highlights the proactive measures taken by the city and school officials to combat lead exposure.

Actions Taken:

• Testing Clinics: A testing clinic was established at a local high school to screen up to 300 children daily using quick finger-prick tests.
• Remediation Efforts: Remediation includes painting over lead-contaminated surfaces, a cost-effective method, though financially taxing. For instance, painting a single room costs around $800, and the total remediation cost is projected to reach $20 million for one school.

Challenges:

• Financial Strain: Despite having reserves, the financial burden of widespread remediation poses significant challenges. The superintendent emphasizes the urgency and necessity of expending all available funds to ensure student safety.

Quotes:

• Dr. Brenda Kasilius: "Again, I implore you all to shift to prevention, not reaction." [04:35]
• Health Official: "We anticipate this could cost up to $20 million." [05:18]

Q&A Segment: Addressing Listener Concerns

After presenting the initial findings, Dr. Gupta engages with his producer, Kira, to address listener-submitted questions about lead poisoning.

1. Does Lead Leave the Body?

   • Response: Yes, lead does leave the body, but it can also accumulate over time. In adults, about 95% of lead is stored in bones and teeth, allowing it to mobilize throughout life, posing long-term health risks. The half-life of lead in the body is approximately one month, provided there is no continued exposure.
   • Quote: "It can cause problems throughout your life. But the half-life is around a month and it does sort of leave your body as long as you don't continue to accumulate it." [09:23]

2. Is Lead Exposure a Concern for Adults and Seniors?

   • Response: While children are more vulnerable due to their size and behaviors, adults are also at risk. Significant lead toxicity in adults can lead to cardiovascular and cognitive issues, as well as problems with the central nervous system.
   • Quote: "It can cause problems with your cardiovascular system and your cognitive system as well, your central nervous system." [10:18]

3. Is There Lead in Chocolate?

   • Response: Lead can be present in chocolate, primarily because cocoa is often grown in soil contaminated with lead. Approximately 43% of chocolates exceed California’s strict lead standards. However, consuming chocolate in moderation—about an ounce per day—is unlikely to pose significant health risks.
   • Quote: "43% of the chocolates out there do have levels of lead that would exceed those standards." [11:54]

Conclusion

Dr. Gupta wraps up the episode by reiterating the critical nature of lead poisoning in Milwaukee and beyond. He encourages listeners to remain informed and proactive in addressing environmental health hazards. The episode serves as a call to action for communities to prioritize preventive measures over reactive solutions.

Final Thoughts:

• Prevention Over Reaction: Emphasizing the need for proactive strategies to prevent lead exposure before it becomes a widespread issue.
• Community Involvement: Highlighting the role of parents, educators, and health officials in safeguarding children’s health.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Sanjay Gupta: "Lead is present in chocolate. It's of concerning levels about 43% of the time in chocolate. But if you're eating just around an ounce per day or less, it should not be a problem for you." [12:13]
• Dr. Mike Todoraitis: "We are not sparing any expense because one student with lead is too many." [05:44]

Production Credits

The episode was produced by a dedicated CNN Audio team, including Aaron Mathewson, Jennifer Lai, Grace Walker, and others, ensuring a thorough and engaging exploration of Milwaukee’s lead poisoning crisis.

Transcript

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[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Welcome to Paging Dr. Gupta. You know, I've come to think of this as my office hours where we all sort of huddle around and chat. And thanks to so many of you for joining us. Every week here, I take your health questions. They take center stage. I try and make sense for you of the health issues that matter most to you. You know, this week I was in Milwaukee. There's been a troubling discovery in the city's public schools that has parents and teachers and health officials pretty concerned. It's about lead paint. Each year, about a thousand children in Milwaukee test positive for lead poisoning. Thousand kids. It's because many of the buildings are aging, but at the same time they are still open, still full of students, and still part of daily life. It's a challenging problem. I just got back from that assignment and I wanted to share some of our reporting with you. Not only what I saw on the ground, but I think what you need to know about lead exposure and how it can affect children and adults alike.

[Reporter]

Any building built before 1978 in America probably has lead based paint in it, which could poison kids. Our story starts here. Milwaukee in January. A kid was found to have four times the amount of lead in their blood as expected. So they started to investigate and they did not find any lead in the child's home. And for the first time, they were able to link lead poisoning in children to the city's aging schools. Specifically, they found evidence of lead containing paint in the elementary school bathroom. Since then, at least three more children have tested positive for elevated blood lead levels. And eight schools have also been found to have unsafe lead levels as well. In fact, here at Westside Academy, these kids had to be relocated to another school. Just this week, they found evidence of red flaking paint on the outside and lots of problems on the inside. Paint that was flaking on doors and walls and windowsills. Cities now got a big job on their hands. They have to inspect around 100 buildings.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

So while I was there, I met with Milwaukee's Commissioner of Health, Dr. Mike Todoraitis, to better understand how this was happen.

[Reporter]

These shavings of paint, they're sweet. They taste sweet. Is that why kids eat them?

[Dr. Mike Todoraitis]

Yes. So they actually have a sweetness to them. So that's why we generally concerned about children under the age of six who are crawling around on the ground and constantly putting things in their mouth.

[Reporter]

What is the lead actually doing in the body?

[Dr. Mike Todoraitis]

It gets absorbed into the bloodstream and can cause long term cognitive delays and behavioral issues.

[Reporter]

Do you guys have enough resources to accomplish what you need to do?

[Dr. Mike Todoraitis]

We have enough of a team right now. I think the long term investigation into the potential chronic exposures of students at the districts is a part that we were really looking to the CDC to help us with. And unfortunately, HHS had laid off that entire team for childhood lead exposure. These are the best and brightest minds in these areas around lead poisoning and now they're gone.

[Reporter]

So for now, the city is trying to do the best that they can. In fact, they've set up a testing clinic here at this high school to screen up to 300 children today. Basically, the kid comes in, they sit down, there's a little lancet here that they do a finger prick test on. It goes into this machine over here and they will get a result back right away. Basically then telling the parents, look, your kid's lead level may be too high.

[Dr. Brenda Kasilius]

Again, I implore you all to shift to prevention, not reaction.

[Reporter]

While we were at the screening, a parent led group gathered nearby making some demands about lead remediation. My grandchildren have the right to go to school without the threat of exposure to lead. Now you should know that one of the most cost effective and straightforward ways to control exposure from old paint is to paint over it. But schools in the school district fell behind and now the superintendent is under a lot of pressure to get this done.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I also met up with Milwaukee's public school superintendent, Dr. Brenda Kasilius. She showed me firsthand some of the exposure sites.

[Reporter]

This is particularly concerning if it's down low like this.

[Health Official]

That's right, because it's, you know, where kids handle their materials and if you're pulling things out, you can certainly this chip. So we remediated these surfaces and then now we have to go back and paint it. But it's a constant cleaning, a constant upkeep, a constant painting. Painting a room can cost $800. We've got tens of thousands of square feet in just one school. We anticipate this could cost up to $20 million.

[Reporter]

Do you have the money?

[Health Official]

Well, we do in our reserves. So right now I'm just saying I need to just spend every dollar. We are working with urgency and we are not sparing any expense because one student with lead is too many.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

This was just a glimpse of what families and officials are facing in Milwaukee right now. After we aired the story, we started getting questions, lots of them. Questions about how lead affects the body, whether adults should be concerned as well, and even some surprising places that lead might show up. So after the break, I'll be joined by my producer Kira, and we're going to tackle a few of the questions that we heard from you.

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[Reporter]

Well, we are on the ground here in Milwaukee getting a lot of questions about lead. Something I want to clarify right off the top because a lot of questions came in about this. There is no safe amount of lead. That is something that you hear all the time. It's important to know. But at the same time, when they test for lead, the sensitivity of the equipment is to really around 3.5 micrograms. So that's the number that you often hear as an acceptable limit. But that really has to do more with the testing than the actual limit.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Of the lead in the body.

[Reporter]

Let's try and get to as many of these questions as we can.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Kira, who's up first?

[Kira]

Hey Sanjay. So first up we have Karen from California and she wrote in asking something that a lot of other people were wondering and that is, does lead ever actually leave the body?

[Reporter]

Really important question. The short answer is yes, lead does leave the body. But important things to keep in mind. First of all, it can continue to accumulate at the same time that is leaving your body. So it can be going sort of back and forth. It is stored in the blood, it is stored in soft tissues, it is stored in your organs. But in adults, about 95% of the lead is actually stored in your bones and your teeth and it can mobilize throughout your life, which is why lead can also be considered sort of a long term toxin that is part of the problem. So it can cause problems throughout your life. But the half life is around a month and it does sort of leave your body as long as you don't continue to accumulate it.

[Kira]

All right, Sanjay, next up we have a question from John in South Carolina, and he's wondering, you know, while we often hear about how dangerous lead exposure is for kids, what about adults or seniors? Is it still a big concern?

[Reporter]

You know, we do talk a lot about kids, and part of the reason we talk a lot about kids is because kids are smaller. So when they get lead exposure, it can have more of an impact on their bodies. Also, kids are closer to the ground. That's often where the lead dust is. Kids like to eat paint chips because paint chips are often sweet. So for all those reasons, lead exposure can have a bigger impact on kids than adults, but it can be a problem in adults as well. It does tend to leave your body, as we just answered in the previous question. But in adults, it can cause problems if you get significant lead toxicity, including problems with your cardiovascular system and your cognitive system as well, your central nervous system. Let's get to one final question.

[Kira]

Okay, this last one is coming from Barbara in Vermont, and I just have to include this question because, honestly, I'm so curious now, too. And she wants to know how much of a problem is lead in chocolate? And, like, can we continue to enjoy it while reducing exposure?

[Reporter]

All right, a lot of comments about lead in chocolate. Heavy. Some heavy metals do end up in chocolate. Lead, cadmium, even small amounts of arsenic. It has to do with the fact that these foods are often grown in soil that might be contaminated with lead. So if you go and you look at chocolate, for example, arsenic's not as big a problem. But if you look at lead, for example, in chocolate, the most strict standards, California standards, you'll find that about 43% of the chocolates out there do have levels of lead that would exceed those standards.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

So 43%.

[Reporter]

Now, that does sound concerning. But you got to keep in mind, again, there are a lot of heavy metals in all sorts of different foods. What they sort of concluded was that if you're eating only about an ounce per day, shouldn't be eating more than an ounce per day, then you should not be getting enough lead to really be of concern.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

So the answer, Barbara? Lead is present in chocolate. It's of concerning levels about 43% of the time in chocolate. But if you're eating just around an ounce per day or less, it should not be a problem for you. Hope that helps. And that's it for today's paging. Dr. Gupta. If you have other health questions on your mind, I want to hear them record a voice memo, email it to asksanjayn.com or give us a call 470-396-0832 and leave a message. Thanks for listening. I'll be back next Tuesday. Chasing Life is a production of CNN Audio. Our podcast is produced by Aaron Mathewson, Jennifer Lai, Grace Walker, Lori Galleretta, Jesse Remedios, Sofia Sanchez and Kira Dehring. Andrea Cain is our medical writer. Our senior producer is Dan Bloom. Amanda Seely is our showrunner, Dan Dejiula is our technical director. And the executive producer of CNN Audio.

[Reporter]

Is Steve Lichtai, with support from Jamis.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Andrest, John Dionora, Hailey Thomas, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, Lainey Steinhardt, Nicole Pesaru and Lisa Namorow. Special thanks to Ben Tinker and Nadia Kanang of CNN Health and Wendy Brundage.

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[Dr. Brenda Kasilius]

Week on the assignment with me, Audie Cornish, Christine Emba. She's a contributing writer for the New York Times and a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

[Kira]

People are joining more traditionalist denominations or churches like they're going for the hard stuff.

[Dr. Brenda Kasilius]

The Pew Research center reports that the decline of Christianity in the US has slowed, maybe even leveled off, and that's thanks mainly to young people. But there are lots of questions about what's driving this trend and whether it will last. Listen to the Assignment with me, Audie Cornish. Streaming now on your favorite podcast, Apple.