Podcast Summary: Chasing Life

Episode: Why Teens Just Can't Quit Nicotine
Host: Dr. Sanjay Gupta (CNN Podcasts)
Guest: Dr. Pamela Ling (Director, UCSF Center for Tobacco Control Research & Education)
Date: October 24, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores why nicotine addiction remains so persistent among teens—despite significant declines in cigarette and vaping rates. The conversation dives into the rise of new nicotine products like Zyn pouches, how tobacco marketing continues to adapt, and the most effective strategies for parents and public health to combat youth nicotine use. Dr. Pamela Ling lends her expertise to discuss addiction, the changing landscape of nicotine products, and what really works (and what doesn’t) in helping kids quit.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shifting Landscape of Teen Nicotine Use

• Historic Declines & New Threats

  • Cigarette smoking among teens peaked in the late 1990s (37%) and dropped to just 3.9% by 2021. ([05:34])
  • Vaping usage surged in 2019 (27.5%), then fell to 7.8% by 2024. ([01:07], [01:15])
  • As vaping declines, new products like Zyn (nicotine pouches) emerge, nearly doubling in teen use from 2023 to 2024. ([01:47], [01:54])

• Industry Innovation: “A Moving Target”

  • Tobacco companies purposefully roll out new products as old ones fall out of favor, aiming to keep people addicted to nicotine in any form. ([18:26])
  • “That is a tobacco company’s plans…their plan was basically to transform themselves into, like, nicotine pharmaceutical companies.” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([18:26])

2. The Addictiveness of Nicotine—and the Industry’s Messaging

• Recognizing Addiction

  • Most young people know nicotine is addictive, but industry efforts intentionally minimize its dangers, likening nicotine to caffeine. ([04:43])
  • Dr. Ling shares the stark reality of patients unable to quit despite severe illness, highlighting nicotine’s grip. ([04:43])

• Effect of Modern Products

  • Vapes and pouches today are far stronger, more discreet, and accessible than older products:
    • Modern vapes contain up to 10,000 puffs—the equivalent of several cartons of cigarettes. ([15:34])
    • Pouches like Zyn now start at 3mg (higher than traditional nicotine replacement therapy) and have escalated to strengths of 15mg per pouch. ([19:58])

3. Effective Strategies: What Works in Reducing Teen Use

• Lessons from the “Truth Campaign”

  • Success came not from fear tactics, but from messaging that empowered teens to hold tobacco executives accountable for lying and making profits at their expense. ([07:56])
  • “Rather than telling teens that this cigarette smoke is going to kill you… what they cared about was adults lying and getting away with it and making money… Teens can relate to adults not following the rules that they themselves are subject to.” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([07:56])

• Communication Must Resonate

  • Medical logic and facts (“this may cause cancer one day”) are less effective than arguments teens connect with emotionally (e.g., being manipulated by companies). ([09:26])
  • “It's more thinking like a marketer…Sometimes getting people energized about, ‘we need to hold this industry accountable’ is a better message.” – Dr. Ling ([10:09])

4. The Harms of Modern Nicotine Delivery

• Health Effects

  • For youth, vaping is tied to respiratory issues (especially for those with asthma) and introduces powerful, addictive substances during a vulnerable time for mental health. ([10:44])
  • The main concern shifts from cancer risk to the impact on adolescent mental health and the gateway effect toward cigarette use. ([10:44], [07:08])

• Cessation Claims: Myth vs. Reality

  • While vapes can help some quit smoking in clinical trials, real-world evidence shows most users do not successfully quit; many who vape never smoked cigarettes before. ([11:56], [13:04])
  • “As a commercial product, this is a failure because…most of the young people using vapes have never smoked cigarettes, so they're just an entry point into nicotine addiction.” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([13:04])

5. Regulation and the Role of Parents

• Inadequate Regulation & Loopholes

  • Despite voluntary withdrawal of some flavors by companies like Juul, thousands of flavored, high-strength products remain easily accessible and poorly regulated. ([15:34])
  • “There are still hundreds to thousands of e-cigarette products available in a wide variety of flavors…very difficult to enforce.” – Dr. Ling ([15:34])

• Evolving Marketing Tactics

  • Social media “zinfluencers” and influencer campaigns target youth directly, using flavors, concealability, and relatability to drive up use. ([01:54], [19:33])
  • “Now…the companies that are promoting the nicotine pouches…are using all of the techniques that made vapes popular, and translating even some of the same brands over to the pouches.” – Dr. Ling ([19:58])

• What Can Parents Do?

  • Talk to children—avoid preachiness, focus on making authentic, non-judgmental connections.
  • Leverage lessons from successful campaigns: sometimes teens quit not due to health risks, but because they want to oppose manipulative industry practices. ([23:23])
  • Get involved: Parents can comment on FDA decisions or campaign for stronger regulation (e.g., limits on nicotine pouch strength). ([21:58])
  • “There's always something you can do… Parents can do things like put in public comment to the FDA…” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([21:58])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Impactful Statistics:
  • “In 2019, the CDC found that 27.5% of high school kids admitted to vaping…by 2024, just five years later, that number had dropped to 7.8%, the lowest in a decade.” – Dr. Sanjay Gupta ([01:07])
• Industry Strategy:
  • “Every time we sort of start to get a handle on one product, another one comes along.” – Dr. Sanjay Gupta ([18:06])
• Marketing Insight:
  • “What they cared about was adults lying and getting away with it and making money off of their lies…that was enough to spur action.” – Dr. Sanjay Gupta ([09:26])
• On Parental Despair:
  • “There's always something you can do…You can talk to your kids…You can tell the FDA, don't approve Zyn, or you can say, limit the nicotine. Why does anyone need 15 milligrams of nicotine in a pouch?” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([21:58])
• Youth Perceptions:
  • “For some young people, knowing the harms…is not going to be the thing that resonates. Sometimes just making a real connection with your kids, no judgment, and helping them connect with things that have meaning can be more effective.” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([23:23])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:55] Emergence and prevalence of vaping among teens
• [01:47] Rise of Zyn (nicotine pouches) and “zinfluencer” marketing
• [04:43] Nicotine’s addictive power and industry minimization
• [05:34] Statistical overview of declining cigarette smoking and rising vaping
• [07:56] “Truth Campaign” and lessons in anti-tobacco messaging
• [10:44] Vaping’s real harms for young people, especially regarding mental health
• [11:56] Debunking vaping as an effective cessation tool for most
• [13:04] Why most young vapers never smoked cigarettes before
• [15:34] Regulatory loopholes and growing product strength/flavor variety
• [18:26] Tobacco’s business model: always another product
• [19:58] Demographics and tactics fueling rise in nicotine pouch use
• [21:58] Advice for parents: personal action and public advocacy
• [23:23] Messaging that motivates teens to quit

Conclusion

This episode highlights how each “win” against one nicotine delivery method is quickly followed by a new threat—because the industry adapts to circumvent regulation and public awareness. The conversation urges parents, doctors, and policymakers to combine effective regulation, compelling messaging, and direct youth engagement to counter nicotine’s enduring appeal.

“There’s always something you can do.” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([21:58])
“You, as teens, can actually hold these adults accountable for their actions.” – Dr. Pamela Ling ([07:56])