Podcast Summary: Chasing Life — "Why You Should Care About Public Health"

Host: Dr. Sanjay Gupta
Guest: Dr. Tom Frieden (Former CDC Director, CEO of Resolve to Save Lives)
Release Date: September 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Chasing Life explores the often invisible but crucial field of public health, with Dr. Sanjay Gupta interviewing Dr. Tom Frieden about his new book, The Formula for Better Health. Their conversation unpacks why public health matters, how its successes are often overlooked, and what individuals can learn from its principles to improve their own lives. Dr. Frieden introduces his framework—See, Believe, Create—explaining how it applies to both society-wide and personal health choices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Image Problem of Public Health

• Public health is most noticed during crises (measles, Ebola, Covid), but its everyday successes go unseen.
  • "Public health is often invisible." — Dr. Tom Frieden (00:38)
  • If public health stays out of sight, it’s quickly out of mind—which leads to budget cuts and lost progress. (00:41, Dr. Sanjay Gupta)

2. Defining Public Health

• Dr. Frieden's Definition:
  • "Public health is the organized actions of society to make people safer and healthier. It's our way of working as communities, as organizations, as individuals… so that the default value, if you go with the flow, you're not going to get hurt or killed or disabled." (03:55, Dr. Tom Frieden)

3. Public Health and Politics

• Public health inherently intertwines with politics because both shape societal structures and policies, though it should be separate from partisanship.
  • "There's this misconception that you've got to keep public health and politics separate. They're not separate. What you'd like to keep separate is public health and partisanship." (04:36, Dr. Tom Frieden)

4. The Challenge of Communicating Uncertainty

• The public doesn’t always understand the degrees of certainty in science; communication failures during Covid were notable.
  • "Facts are stubborn things… Science doesn't give you certainty. Science gives you humility." (05:23, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• Transparent communication involves sharing what is known, not known, and how we know it.
  • "Anytime we're making a recommendation, say, look, based on what we know now, this is what we recommend." (05:23, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• Dr. Gupta reflects on how press briefings during Ebola were clearer and more transparent than during Covid. (06:50)

5. Certainty and Decision-Making in Emergencies

• Decisions often must be made with incomplete data; inaction is itself a choice, sometimes with dire consequences.
  • "In an emergency, you're always going to have to make decisions based on imperfect data… Not making a decision, not taking an action, is a decision." (08:14, Dr. Tom Frieden)

6. Empowering People Through Information

• Frieden’s organization promoted a risk alert level system for Covid, akin to wildfire warnings, to empower communities and individuals.
  • "It's about empowering people with information." (09:01, Dr. Tom Frieden)

7. The SEE, BELIEVE, CREATE Formula

SEE: Overcoming Cassandra's Curse

• Public health has often predicted disasters (like tobacco deaths) but failed to spur change—mirroring Cassandra from mythology.
  • "The curse comes from inaccurate perceptions—of ourselves, our world, and the future." (11:05, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• Prevention paradox: widespread minor improvements can have huge collective impact but are less visible.
• Hyperbolic discounting: People tend to undervalue future benefits and regret poor decisions too late.

BELIEVE: Recognizing Invisible Victories

• Many epidemics and deaths have been prevented; public health works but is hard to notice when it’s successful.
  • "Nobody in the whole world, 8 billion people, nobody woke up this morning and said, oh, thank goodness I didn't die from smallpox yesterday." (00:55 & 14:23, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• Not recognizing past successes leads to undervaluing public health’s role.

CREATE: Building and Scaling Solutions

• Creating better health outcomes requires systematic organization, simplicity, clear communication, and coalition-building.
  • "The most important thing is simplicity. You have to keep things simple. If you try to do complicated stuff, it doesn't scale up." (21:26, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• Overcoming the prevention paradox through broad coalition and story-telling:
  • Dr. Frieden tells the allegory of villagers rescuing drowning children, and one runs upstream to stop them from falling in—this is the heart of public health. (23:34)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Science & Uncertainty:
  • "Science doesn't give you certainty. Science gives you humility, because everything you learn opens new questions for you to figure out." (05:23, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• On Prevention and Individual Health:
  • "Physical activity, Sanjay, as you know, it's the closest thing there is to a wonder drug. It improves everything you'd want to improve." (18:07, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• On CDC & Public Health Under Attack:
  • "What we're seeing now is unprecedented, Sanjay. No CDC director has ever been fired. Public health is under assault… This is not about freedom. This isn't about health. This is about the ideological takeover of organizations like the FDA and CDC." (24:56, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• On Optimism for the Future:
  • "Facts are stubborn things… the truth doesn't change even if people deny it, subvert it, or abuse it." (26:24, Dr. Tom Frieden)
• On Our Interconnectedness:
  • *"…We're connected by the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, the fact that we live in a world where an infection can spread from one part of the world to another in a day or two, where positive things spread also …" (27:45, Dr. Tom Frieden)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Public health's invisibility & importance: 00:04–01:03
• Defining & understanding public health: 03:02–04:18
• Interplay of science, politics, and uncertainty: 05:05–06:50
• Lessons in communication during Ebola vs Covid: 06:50–10:12
• The "See, Believe, Create" formula explained: 11:05–15:28
• Applying public health to individual choices: 15:59–20:00
• The 'Create' chapter & village allegory: 21:13–24:19
• CDC and partisan threats to public health: 24:22–27:45
• Grounds for optimism & the path forward: 26:24–28:30

Takeaways for Listeners

• Public health matters every day, not just in crises. Its greatest triumphs are often invisible because they’re about what didn’t happen.
• Science isn't about dogma, but about humility and adapting as evidence changes. Decision-making often involves uncertainty, and being transparent helps build trust.
• Individual actions and public health go hand in hand. Tracking health markers and making incremental improvements matter.
• Simplicity, communication, and coalition are key to scaling solutions—for societies and for individuals.
• Public health systems are currently under attack, risking lost progress. Advocacy and awareness are critical.
• Despite setbacks, truth and facts endure, and progress is possible by focusing on what works and building stronger connections.

Final Note

The episode surfaces vital, timely reminders that public health is foundational to our well-being and resilience—and that everyone has a role in sustaining it. Dr. Gupta and Dr. Frieden’s conversation, while candid about current setbacks, is ultimately hopeful about our ability to see, believe in, and create a healthier future for all.