Cheeky Pint Podcast: "How to Build a $16B Car Company"
Guest: RJ Scaringe (Rivian Founder & CEO)
Host: John Collison (co-founder of Stripe)
Date: October 14, 2025
Episode Overview
In this rich and candid episode, Stripe cofounder John Collison sits down with RJ Scaringe, founder and CEO of Rivian, to unpack the improbable journey of building one of the world’s most successful electric vehicle companies from scratch. Over pints, they discuss the brutal realities of car manufacturing, Rivian’s big bets on technology and design, the partnerships and pivots that changed their fate, and how Rivian sees the future of driving. This is a masterclass on startups, hardware, car culture, and the coming age of software-defined vehicles.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Improbable Origins of Rivian
- Building a Car Company from Zero (01:42)
- RJ describes assembling “billions of dollars of capital, a team of thousands, and a massive manufacturing facility” from scratch—a task most industry insiders laughed off in 2013-2014.
- “In the beginning, you have none of those ingredients... it was a low probability of success.” — RJ Scaringe (01:42)
- Major Inflection Points (02:44)
- 2019 was pivotal: Amazon’s $700M+ investment and multi-billion commercial van order provided credibility and runway.
- “From whiteboard in early 2019 to vans on the road two years later.” — RJ Scaringe (04:15)
2. Electric Vans & Rivian’s Amazon Deal
- Why Amazon Chose Rivian (03:34)
- Electric vans offer lower operational costs; less maintenance and more uptime fit Amazon’s logistics needs.
- Ramp-Up & Market Challenges (04:51)
- Initial ramp: ~10,000 vans/year for Amazon, expanding slowly to others due to supply chain shocks and industry reticence.
- “Economics are so advantaged we’re really clear on it being a big space… just taking longer.” — RJ Scaringe (05:00)
3. Tackling Product Quality Out of the Gate
- Quality Despite Hardware Challenges (06:36)
- Unlike most startups, the first Rivian R1T and R1S had to be robust products, not MVPs.
- “Your first dollar of revenue takes many billions of development… what you launch needs to be incredibly robust.” — RJ Scaringe (07:12)
- Making Three Models at Once (08:40)
- Launched a truck, SUV, and van nearly simultaneously—during COVID and supply chain havoc. “If I could go back in time, I’d have sequenced differently.” — RJ Scaringe (08:40)
- Recognition: Consumer Reports #1 in customer satisfaction and “Truck of the Year” awards.
4. The Cost Structure & The Gen 2 Platform
- Grinding Toward Profitability (11:24)
- Pandemic and chip shortages led to cost inflation; Rivian initially ate most of the increased costs, staying consistent on pricing.
- “End of ‘24, beginning of ‘25, we started to hit positive gross margin.” — RJ Scaringe (12:25)
- Gen 2: Zonal Compute, Reduced Complexity (12:33–15:06)
- Moved from 17 to 3 controllers (East, West, South zone controllers), facilitating centralized software, easier updates, and autonomy.
- “There’s three real-time computers in the vehicle that run the whole platform.” — RJ Scaringe (13:39)
- Big leap in autonomy through full-stack ownership; Gen 2 enables an “end-to-end training data flywheel” for self-driving.
5. Volume & Model Strategy—The R2 Expansion
- Scaling Up (16:18–17:07)
- R1 selling ~$90K/unit, ~40K units/year; R2 will target $45K, with up to 175K units/year from Illinois, plus additional capacity in Georgia.
- “R2 is the coolest thing we’ve ever done… starting price of $45,000… many millions of units potential.” — RJ Scaringe (15:06, 16:25)
6. Radical Vertical Integration
- Software, Hardware, Everything In-House (17:09–18:35)
- Unlike most carmakers, Rivian designs its own electronics, software, high- and low-voltage systems, power electronics, and more.
- Initially a cost burden at low volumes, but “an enormous structural cost advantage” as volumes ramp up.
7. Why SUVs, Not Sports Cars?
- Seeing What Others Overlooked (18:55–21:17)
- Pivoted from sports car to SUV when competition (Tesla) took the former.
- Overcame outdated perceptions: “Why would you make an electric SUV?” RJ was “laughed out of the room.”
- “We can pull up to a stoplight next to a Ferrari… and out-accelerate them with groceries in the front.” — RJ Scaringe (20:39)
8. Surprise & Delight: Design Philosophy
- User-First, Joyful Touches (22:44–25:13)
- Features like the hidden flashlight and “gear guardian,” and a focus on user scenarios—backpackers, parents, pet owners—bake practicality into every detail.
- “We wanted the vehicle to be lovable… like kid-like joy built into the product.” — RJ Scaringe (24:33)
- Example: Had to drop detachable carbon fiber roof for complexity, but it “may come back.”
9. Software, CarPlay & Google Maps
- No CarPlay by Design, Google Maps Inside (27:34–30:39)
- Rivian intentionally eschews CarPlay for a full-stack, seamless user experience, controlling navigation, voice, and vehicle features in one ecosystem.
- “It’s quite jarring when you don’t have, let’s say, vehicle-level controls in a CarPlay environment… In a world of integrated AI, it’s even more important.” — RJ Scaringe (28:05)
10. Safety, Regulations, and Platform Wars
- Why Some Seat/Tech Features Don’t Exist (Yet) (31:27–35:32)
- RJ unpacks why rearview mirrors aren’t motorized and why U.S. safety standards complicate integrating features like adjustable child seat belts.
- U.S. vs European Safety (Pedestrian Protection) (35:54–36:43)
- “There are cars that could never pass European pedestrian protection, like Cybertruck.”
11. The Software-Defined Car & the Volkswagen Deal
- Rivian’s Unmatched Software Core (47:10–51:54)
- “With the exception of Rivian and Tesla, every car has 50–150 little computers from different suppliers.” Rivian’s three-computer (zonal) architecture is now licensed to Volkswagen via a $5.8B deal.
- “Every car company must go software-defined or lose market share… The Volkswagen partnership is the ultimate billboard for the idea.” — RJ Scaringe (48:39)
12. AI, Autonomous Driving, and Sensors
- Moving Beyond Rules-Based Driving (38:01–44:39)
- The old stack (object classification + rules-based planner) is being replaced by large neural nets trained fleet-wide.
- “Strangely become a debate topic… mathematically, more sensors are better.” — RJ Scaringe (41:29)
- Now that lidar and radar are orders of magnitude cheaper, multi-modal sensing is standard.
- “The more sensors you can afford — and process — the better.” — RJ Scaringe (44:45)
13. EVs, Cost Structures, and the Chinese Shift
- Why Chinese EVs Surged (61:08–65:53)
- No "magic": lower cost of capital, labor, and government support; clean-sheet software design.
- “Every manufacturer needs to build a software-defined architecture — the tech is as important as the cost structure.”
14. Market Adoption & EV Credits
- Why U.S. EV Penetration Lags (65:56–68:20)
- EV credits phasing out will hurt in the short term.
- The U.S. adoption rate (~8%) is low due to insufficient compelling EV choices: “It’s a choice issue — in the <$50K space, only two real options: Model 3 and Model Y.”
15. Brand, Business Model, and the Future
- Three-Pronged Revenue: Car Sales, Tech Licensing, Service (54:25–58:43)
- Sales provide scale, but licensing (VW) and in-house direct service unlock richer, more reliable revenue streams.
- “For every car sold, the lifecycle revenue is 2–2.5x the initial price — but it’s spread over 15 years. We now get that recurring revenue.” — RJ Scaringe (59:13)
- Dynamic Features & Used Car Value (59:51–61:08)
- Software updates add value to new and used Rivians, which the company can offer directly.
- Origin of the Rivian Name (68:22)
- “Rivian is a play on Indian River, where I grew up: first three letters ‘Riv’ from river, last three ‘ian’ from Indian.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Being Laughed Out of the Room:
- “Why would you make an electric SUV? I’d get, to say laughed out of the room is probably accurate.” — RJ Scaringe (19:17)
- On First Principles in Design:
- “We wanted to have some of that kid-like joy built into the product…” — RJ Scaringe (24:33)
- On Amazon’s Early Whiteboard Meetings:
- “We sketched an idea on a whiteboard…by the end of 2019 signed the deal, two years later vans delivering packages.” — RJ Scaringe (04:15)
- On CarPlay and Full-Stack Control:
- “It’s quite jarring… when you don’t have vehicle-level controls in CarPlay… in a world of integrated AI it’s even more important.” — RJ Scaringe (28:05)
- On Zonal Architectures:
- “We went from 17 to three: east, west, and south zone controllers.” — RJ Scaringe (13:34)
- On the VW Deal:
- “We did a $5.8B deal with Volkswagen… providing them this zonal architecture.” — RJ Scaringe (47:12)
- On Global Competition:
- “If there’s zero trade friction, more production will shift to China because of these advantages.” — RJ Scaringe (63:53)
- On the Origin of “Rivian”:
- “It’s the first three letters of ‘river’ and last three of ‘Indian’ — Indian River, where I grew up.” — RJ Scaringe (68:22)
Notable Timestamps
- Origin & Funding Struggles: 01:42–05:20
- Amazon Van Partnership: 02:44–05:20
- Production Launch & Challenges: 06:36–11:24
- Gen 2 Platform/Software Leap: 12:33–15:06
- R2 Ramp Plans: 16:18–17:39
- Vertical Integration Strategy: 17:09–18:35
- SUV Pivot / Market Insight: 18:55–21:17
- Surprise & Delight Features: 22:44–25:13
- Software Philosophy (CarPlay, Google): 27:34–30:39
- Safety / Regulatory Friction: 31:27–36:43
- VW Software Deal & Industry Outlook: 47:10–51:54
- AI & Sensor Stack Discussion: 38:01–44:45
- Chinese EV Competition: 61:08–65:53
- US EV Adoption, Brand Positioning: 65:56–68:20
- Name Origin, Closing: 68:22–end
Final Takeaway
RJ Scaringe’s story is the blueprint for audacious hardware startups. Rivian’s mix of deep vertical integration, uncompromising attention to experience and design, and a strategic technological leap into truly software-defined vehicles allowed it to carve out a unique segment alongside Tesla. As legacy automakers scramble to catch up and the global market shifts, Rivian’s “be lovable, build for delight, control the platform” philosophy stands out as a new paradigm for both the automotive sector and high-stakes entrepreneurship.