a toast to the girls | cheers

Summary

CHEERS! with Avery Woods

Episode: a toast to the girls | cheers
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Avery Woods

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt, year-end episode, host Avery Woods raises a glass to the women who shaped her 2025, revisiting standout moments and conversations with beloved guests from her podcast. Avery celebrates friendship, motherhood, career journeys, gratitude, and vulnerability, sharing highlights with Jackie Aina, Laura Lee, Rocky Barnes, Avery Crow, and cast members from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. The episode overflows with laughter, candidness, and inspiring reflections on growth, hustle, and supporting women—all delivered in Avery’s trademark warm, conversational tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections & Gratitude for the Year (01:13 – 04:19)

• Avery expresses amazement at the show’s growth and thanks listeners for their support, recalling humble beginnings and early successes.
  • “My favorite part about my job…I get to meet the coolest people and connect with so many different people on different paths...that is such a blessing.” — Avery Woods (01:37)
• Shoutouts to past guests, highlighting their special qualities and why their episodes resonated.

2. Introducing Her Favorite Guests (04:19 – 06:00)

• Jackie Aina: Lauded for her versatility and unwavering support in Avery’s personal and professional journey.
• Avery Crow: Admired for building a social media presence while navigating college and early adulthood.
• Laura Lee: Recognized for her down-to-earth nature and the deep friendship formed.
• Rocky Barnes: Celebrated for her candidness about fashion, motherhood, and the industry.
• Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Cast: Praised for authenticity and resilience in the face of reality TV’s pressures.

3. Centering on Gratitude (08:26 – 11:20)

Jackie Aina’s Philosophy:

• Jackie speaks on the power of appreciating simple joys as a safeguard against ego and greed.
  • Memorable Quote: “Sometimes there is beauty in being thankful for simplistic stuff too.” — Jackie Aina [09:46]
• Jackie on public perception: “Sometimes people see my content and they’re like, why do you clean your own house? And I’m like, I get to clean my own house. Do you know what it feels like to not have a house?”

Laura Lee’s Approach:

• Practicing gratitude daily through journaling, focusing on realistic, attainable habits (five things a night).
  • Quote: “If you want to start a habit, you make it fun. You make it enticing in any way for yourself. You make it a pleasure so you come back to it.” — Laura Lee [10:20]

4. Before They Were Influencers: Past Lives & Hustles (11:20 – 26:37)

Jackie Aina in the Military:

• Jackie describes her experience in the Army Reserves, tackling misogyny, maintaining her self-care routines, and the complex gender dynamics in service.
  • “The military is the place that strips you of your individuality in every single way…when people say stuff like, what was she wearing? …I know exactly what it feels like to still be catcalled, disrespected…in a big boxy, clunky boots. Like, it does not matter.” — Jackie Aina [14:09]

Laura Lee’s Allegedly "Unqualified" Journey:

• Recaps her chaotic path through odd jobs, just scraping through high school, failing (and cheating in) math, struggling to envision a career—until discovering YouTube.
  • Comic Highlight: “I was going to fail it anyway. So it was really a Hail Mary. Anyway.” — Laura Lee [18:21]
• “I was like, look at you…I’m graduating high school. That’s good as gold in this family, right?” — Laura Lee [19:16]
• On her first well-paying job: “$9 an hour. Baby, that's the most money I've ever made in my life.” — Laura Lee [22:29]
• Discovers YouTube and realizes: “This is all I want to do.” [24:57]

Cracking the YouTube Code:

• Laura shares how analytical thinking on titles/thumbnails led to a viral video with 15 million views.
  • “After that video, it confirmed for me what I thought I knew about the algorithm.” — Laura Lee [26:54]

Rocky Barnes: Fashion Influencer Milestone

• Rocky’s “I made it” moment: shooting for Vogue as herself, not just as a model.
  • “I got shot by Patrick Demarchelier for Sam Edelman's eight-page advertorial in the September issue of Vogue. …I was like, okay, this is a pinch me, I made it moment.” — Rocky Barnes [27:52]

Avery Crow: Teenage Content Creator

• Started TikTok as a high school freshman, balancing schoolwork and content despite peer judgment.
  • “I would wake up early before school, film my morning routines, …editing in the hallways…” — Avery Crow [31:04]
• Realized it could be a career after a breakup video went viral senior year.

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5. Women as Breadwinners & Societal Judgments (32:28 – 36:42)

• Avery discusses the double standard faced by working mothers compared to fathers.

  • “If a man is a breadwinner going on a work trip, no one's saying anything to him. …But when a woman does it, there's a problem with it.” — Avery Woods [32:28]

• Jackie Aina: “There’s definitely women that I follow…just them even being outside, they’re like, ‘Where’s your kids?’ …You’re both allowed to have a social life outside of your kids.” [33:57]

• Jen Affleck (Secret Lives of Mormon Wives) offers a candid look at shifting family roles while coming from conservative backgrounds—a difficult but empowering journey.

  • “I just naturally took that role. And it was really hard for him at first…he also felt like…what value do I bring if I’m not providing?” — Jen Affleck [36:42]

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6. Motherhood: Realness, Challenges, and Personal Growth (37:00 onwards)

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Cast:

• Open up about balancing rapidly growing careers and parenting, dealing with morning sickness, and supporting each other through parallel experiences.

Laura Lee’s Emotional Adoption Story [41:35 – 44:41]

• Shares a vulnerable account of stepping in as her niece Aaron’s guardian, the court battle, family healing, and her niece’s bright future.
  • “I tried to get my sister to sign her over…ended up going back to Alabama and fighting for her in court, and I won her.” — Laura Lee [42:33]
  • “I love talking about it because a lot of people have to do this.” — Laura Lee [42:38]

Rocky Barnes: Motherhood, Confidence & Independence

• Rocky describes how financial independence shaped her choices in relationships and motherhood.
  • “Once I got a taste of [success], I was like, I’m not stopping now.” — Rocky Barnes [46:42]
  • “Being able to be financially independent gives you so much power to be able to make decisions for what you truly want and not having to, like, be reliant on someone.” [46:47]
• On starting a family later and misconceptions about “geriatric pregnancy”:
  • “My second was a geriatric pregnancy, and they need to change that.” — Rocky Barnes [50:09]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Gratitude:

  • “It’s kind of like a love letter to myself. An act of practicing gratitude.” — Jackie Aina [08:29]
  • “If you want to start a habit, you make it fun.” — Laura Lee [10:20]

• Resilience:

  • “I always just had the mentality of I’ll figure it out. Because we always did.” — Laura Lee [20:10]

• Self-Belief:

  • “You can make fun of me now, but I know the opportunities that I’m getting and I’m doing this at such a young age…” — Avery Crow [32:05]

• Motherhood & Identity:

  • “I like women to know that yeah, being a mom is hard but you can do it.” — Rocky Barnes [45:26]

• Financial Freedom:

  • “Being able to be financially independent gives you so much power to be able to make decisions for what you truly want.” — Rocky Barnes [46:47]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:13] — Avery’s intro and heartfelt gratitude
• [04:19] — Shoutouts to key guests and what makes them special
• [08:26] — Jackie Aina on gratitude
• [10:20] — Laura Lee on gratitude journaling
• [11:45-15:22] — Jackie Aina’s Army stories and gender dynamics
• [16:26-18:52] — Laura Lee’s chaotic early adulthood
• [24:57-25:37] — Laura Lee’s viral YouTube breakthrough
• [27:30-28:11] — Rocky Barnes’ fashion influencer career breakthrough
• [28:27-32:28] — Avery Crow on balancing social media and high school
• [32:28-36:42] — Women as breadwinners, societal judgment, and religious background
• [41:35-44:41] — Laura Lee’s adoption of her niece
• [45:26-47:41] — Rocky Barnes on motherhood and independence
• [49:07-50:29] — Rocky’s later-in-life motherhood perspective

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Summary

Avery’s “A Toast to the Girls” is a celebration of female friendship, ambition, and honest storytelling. The episode weaves together gratitude, resilience, supportive relationships, the challenges of public motherhood, and building a life on your own terms. In Avery’s words:

“Let it be the best year yet. Cheers.” [51:21]

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Cheers to more laughter, vulnerability, and empowerment in 2026!

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

On December 19. Based on the best selling novel. Amanda Seyfried and Sydney Sweeney star in the Housemaid. A wildly entertaining thriller about a live in housemaid and the wealthy Winchester family experience a twisted world where perfection is an illusion and nothing is as it seems. The shocking twists will leave you guessing until the very end. Can you keep a secret? The Housemaid Rate Rated R only in theaters December 19th get tickets now.

[Jackie Aina]

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[Host Avery Woods]

Beauty brands and your nephews the coolest new toys.

[Jackie Aina]

Go ahead. At prices this good, you can grab something for yourself too. Marshalls.

[Laura Lee]

We get the deals.

[Jackie Aina]

You gift the good stuff. Shop [e-mail] or find a store near you.

[Host Avery Woods]

Hi, welcome to Cheers. I'm your host Avery Woods.

Hi guys. Welcome back to Cheers. I'm so excited for today's episode. We are almost at the end of 2025, which is insane. I feel like I still question if it's 2024 or 2025 and now we're going into 2026. So next year is going to be really rough anytime I have to say or write the date. But we thought it would be fun to go through some of our favorite moments of the year with some of our guests. I feel so privileged to do this every single day and although it's immensely changed my life and my family's life and given opportunities, my favorite part about my job, I'm doing air quotes for those that are listening because it doesn't even feel like a job because I love it so much is that I get to meet the coolest people and connect with so many different people on different paths and not only spark conversation and learn but but also make personal connections with them and become friends with them. And I feel like that is such a blessing in this being my job and I, I love it so much and I just want to go through and talk about some of my favorite moments from the year because it has been an insane year. A year to talk about, a year to celebrate. I'm so proud of our growth. I'm so proud of my Scotty over here. We couldn't do anything without him. He is my behind the scenes guy. He has grown so much with me. We had no idea what we were doing two years ago and the Fact that we're here today and going into 2026, having a still successful podcast part of the Unwell Network is something I am immensely grateful for. So thank you all so much for being here, for listening. I loved seeing your Spotify wrapped to tags. I. I couldn't repost them all, but I was looking through all of them and just like had the biggest smile on my face because I remember when I first pushed Go Live with episode number one, we were in Pennsylvania interviewing Nabella and I had pushed Go Live and she made like the cutest cake. And I was like, even if I had a hundred people listen, like even a. If a. Just a hundred people listened to, I cannot believe a hundred people are listening to my podcast. Like, that's such a privilege. And then we went back and looked at the numbers and people sharing and I was like, holy shit. And it was number two on Apple podcasts for the first ever episode and in the United States. And that was just insane to me. And I'm still so grateful every day. That's not something that ever goes away. So thank you guys all so much for being here, for listening, for supporting, and you're the reason why I'm here. So we're going to get into it. Okay, in this episode, you're going to hear from some of my favorite women in the whole world. First of all, Jackie Aina. Shout out to Jackie. We love her. OG youtuber. She has taught me so many things from.

Doing my skincare routine, pressing my bed, my camera quality, on my vlogs, doing my makeup, film, fashion advice, fitness, pilates. Like, she really is the Jack of all trades and the greatest human being. I hosted an event last night and of course she came to support because that's who she is as a person. She's just a warm light, and I feel like everyone can learn something from Jackie. Avery Crow. Love me a good twin name. You guys loved Avery's episode. I thought it was amazing because I'm obviously in such a different phase of life than avery. I am 30 years old. I've got. Got a herd of children. I have this, you know, mom life, slash podcast life. And she's a college girl. She's in her young 20. I think she's 20 because when I interviewed her, she hadn't even turned 21 yet. She couldn't even order a drink. I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting old. But she is such a good head on her shoulders and I really admire what she's doing, you know, building this incredible social media Platform while also finishing college and is not easy. And we talked about heartbreak and.

Growing in college and meeting friends in college and finding yourself. And also so many eyes being on you, being on social media while balancing that with college girls that aren't the nicest. So learned a lot from her. Laura Lee. You guys know my girl Laura. She's become a great friend of mine, and I love that her husbands go golfing now, which is so fun for David. But Laura is someone very special to me because very similar to us. Like, she came from nothing. She grew this incredible empire all on her own, and she is still so unbelievably down to earth. It is so refreshing and so rare for this industry. And our conversation literally made my abs hurt the next day because I was belly laughing so hard. Then we have Rocky Barnes. Rocky Barnes is just an iconic fashion Instagram influencer model. I have followed her for years, and I love her honest and refreshing perspective on what it is to be in this industry and grow and be a mother. And she really is like one of the queens of la. And then we had some cast members from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. We had Macy, Michaela, and Jen, which was also such a fun conversation. I really love them. I think they're incredible people. Reality TV gets really sticky with people and their opinions, and it makes me sad because obviously, when you're on reality tv, the producers twist whatever they want to twist in order to get views. But meeting these girls in person and really getting to know them, like, they're great girls, and they have built such an incredible empire as women and as mothers. And, like, look at Jen going on Dancing with the Stars postpartum. Like, what an accomplishment. That's so, so amazing. Macy with her book, Michaela, so honest about her skin. So I really, really loved our conversation with those girls. All right, let's get into it. I first want to start by talking about something that I talked about throughout the year with so many different guests in different ways, depending on who they are, where they came from, and that is gratitude. And no one has gratitude quite like Jackie. She comes from such a humble background, coming from the military to now building this incredible empire and. And her amazing business with ForeverMood. You romanticize every aspect of your life, and I really love that. And I look up to that a lot. Thank you. And I think it's kind of forced me to slow down a little bit in my everyday life and just take advantage of the small moments and not take for granted, like, even making my bed, you know, I'm not a bed maker. And I'm telling you, like, I, I know you are, but like every morning I'm like, yeah, damn, it feels so good to make my bed. And like really beautifully made bed. Yeah. But that's because I watch you.

[Jackie Aina]

I'm honored. Thank you.

[Host Avery Woods]

Truly.

[Jackie Aina]

It's kind of, it's like a love letter to myself. Like a, an act of practicing gratitude. Because when you're so used to not having nothing, like nothing, nothing, nothing, and then you have everything damn near under the sun, you're like, wow. Like to me, I mean, I don't want to get too, too deep or whatever, but when I look at really gluttonous people who do like really dark, disgusting, harmful things to other people, especially when they're successful, look at the news, look at what's going on in social media. Look at one of the most famous trials that just happened recently. People who get to that point, I think their salaciousness never be like, nothing's ever good enough for them. They just become greedier and greedier and greedier. And the people around them just continue to tell them yes and yes and yes and yes and nothing is too big and nothing is big enough. And I don't even wanna be like that. So to me, like, I get to wake up every day and I'm grateful for that. I get to set my bed every day. I'm grateful for that. And to me, that's kind of like my way of internally not getting too big headed. Cause like, yeah, even though I am, you know, I do got an ego, I'm not gonna shy away from it. Like, I will pop my shit if I have to, but at the same time I feel like there's also levels to it and it's like, okay.

Sometimes there is beauty in being thankful for simplistic stuff too. You know what I mean? That's, that's something that's really important to me. So. But on the flip side, sometimes people see my content and they're like, why do you claim your own house? And I'm like, I get to clean my own house. Do you, do you know what it feels like to not have a house? Yeah, you'd be cleaning that every single day. You get.

[Host Avery Woods]

Okay, again with Laura Lee, she has an immense amount of gratitude and I literally had a conversation with her last night about this because she is still so humble. She, she taught me how to take gratitude and turn it into a daily practice.

[Laura Lee]

So you did the right thing. If you want to start a habit, you make it fun. You make it enticing in any way for yourself. You make it a pleasure so you come back to it. But so basically I can't remember the guy's name, but he was on Mel Robbins podcast and he was talking about summarizing each day helps you reflect better on what you've done, what the mistakes are. Oftentimes we go to bed and you don't even remember the day or anything that happened because the day is done, you know? But if you journal and write down and kind of summarize your day, and I do it through gratitude. So I'll be like, I'm grateful. I had a really good workout. And I'll describe why and what the teacher did and like, things he said that inspired me. But if you're able to summarize good and bad in every day, like, you can basically be a better person and kind of analyze your moves and be honest with yourself. And it's like a really good way to release all your emotions and thoughts. So I gratitude journal every night no matter what. But that's why it's only five things, not like 20, because that's not realistic for me. You always, when you want to set a goal, you have to make it a realistic goal. So five things every night that I'm grateful for.

[Host Avery Woods]

All right, switching gears because you guys know my background. I went from a picky nurse to now full time content creator and podcaster. So one of my favorite topics to talk to my guests about is what they did before content creation or podcasting or reality tv, whatever they're doing. Because I love to get to know who they were before I watched them and how they turned it into a business for themselves. You were in the military?

[Jackie Aina]

I was, yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

I was in the reserves, which is insane.

[Jackie Aina]

I've lived like nine lives.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah, and you were. How long were you in?

[Jackie Aina]

So all service members, regardless, Marine, Navy, all of them, you all basically commit to like eight minimum. That's like the government owns you for eight years. Whether you're active or inactive is different from person to person. So technically, totally, I was committed to eight years. But of those eight years, I only served like, close to like, five, six.

[Host Avery Woods]

Okay, what branch?

[Jackie Aina]

Army Reserves.

[Host Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Laura Lee]

Yeah.

[Jackie Aina]

And I did, funny enough, I did logistics.

[Host Avery Woods]

You did.

[Jackie Aina]

So I was a person who was in charge of storing everything, weaponry, supplies. So, like, my job was literally like, supplies. So I was storing, organizing.

[Host Avery Woods]

So from the get go. Yeah, pretty.

[Jackie Aina]

I mean, yeah, like, pretty much. It's just kind of crazy. But, yeah, that's my job.

[Host Avery Woods]

So my sister is A chief in the Navy.

[Jackie Aina]

Oh wow.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah, yeah, she's very high up and she's been in for. I think she can retire in four years.

[Jackie Aina]

That's impressive. Joined really young cuz a retirement is like 20 years.

[Host Avery Woods]

18 in the army I think. Yeah, yep. She's 35 and can retire I believe at 39 cuz she joined at 19. Yeah, she's amazing. But she, she is very much like me. She likes her beauty, her fragrance, her hair products. Like she always is ordering stuff from Sephora and she'll take it on deployment with her. And she always tells me how much of an issue it is first of all to be in charge of men and being a beautiful woman. And also when she was on one of her first deployments she called us so upset because she was taking a shower and all these girls stole all of her products. Like all of her really nice Sephora products.

[Jackie Aina]

Excuse me.

[Host Avery Woods]

When she was deployed and but like.

[Jackie Aina]

If you're wearing my gloss, you know I'm gonna knock you. I know what too face looks like.

[Host Avery Woods]

Boo.

[Jackie Aina]

Take that shit off.

[Host Avery Woods]

I know.

[Jackie Aina]

Oh my God, the audacity.

[Host Avery Woods]

I know that you've loved beauty from the beginning. So did you ever see any of that side of it?

[Jackie Aina]

1,000%. Okay, 1,000%. I mean this because this was the era when I was in the military. This was the era when like beauty gurus were like kind of an underground thing. There were not that many people who would walk outside of the house willingly with a full glam. Because I live in la so I think it's a little different depending on what part of the US you're from. Like in the south that's very normal to be full glam down but like people in the west coast didn't really do that. So I 1000% from for as long as I can remember because even back then I was a glam girl like down. Yeah. Being in uniform, being somewhat attractive is another whole nother thing. But wearing a full face of makeup, it would just be like huh. Yeah, it's, it's interesting the way first of all there's a lot of misogyny. Misogyny in the military in general, especially, especially in the army. Like these men are just so filthy. And I'll even say, I'll even tell you this is why I don't believe the military is single handedly why I don't believe how a woman dresses dictates how she's treated. Because when you're assaulted, harmed in any way, when I tell you when you're in the uniform. I cannot think of any other scenario that strips you of besides your face. Obviously the military is the place that strips you of your individuality in every single way. All the uniforms are shaped the same. I don't care how much body you're given, you're not going to be able to see in that boxy ass.

[Laura Lee]

Yeah.

[Jackie Aina]

Uniform, that big, boxy, flowy uniform.

[Host Avery Woods]

You're seeing no curves.

[Jackie Aina]

You're not going to see my curves. You're wearing. You're all. Well in basic training, at least not when you get out of there. But like, you're wearing the same drawers. At one point you. You basically all virtually kind of look the same except for the face. So when people say stuff like, what was she wearing? I know exactly what it feels like to still be catcalled disrespected, treated unfairly in the workplace. Even in a big boxy, you know, clunky boots, like it. It does not matter. And yeah, there were so many times where like. And unfortunately, because you know, the military does have a ranking system, so you got to keep it cute. So if somebody that's superior to you says a slick comment and you know that that person superior to you, like, you can't really talk back. It's a whole entire organization versus you.

[Host Avery Woods]

Totally.

[Jackie Aina]

Yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

And then we have Laura Lee, whose pre YouTube resume deserves its own reality show of itself.

[Laura Lee]

Okay, so I had worked like a million jobs. Dick. Sporting goods, sold wine. Daycare. Yes.

[Host Avery Woods]

All right.

[Laura Lee]

Texas Roadhouse. A time or two.

[Host Avery Woods]

Those fucking dinner rolls.

[Laura Lee]

I will say after like 24 hours because the manager threw a peanut in my head and all the waitresses were bitches. Not kidding.

[Host Avery Woods]

I quit.

[Laura Lee]

I was like, listen, I'm broke as right now. And you just threw a peanut and hit me in the head.

[Host Avery Woods]

I gotta go.

[Laura Lee]

I'm walking out and you're keeping my tip out. I can't do this.

[Host Avery Woods]

I hope you deserve free dinner. Rules for life.

[Laura Lee]

I know, exactly. Also, the manager was nice as that did it. He was my only saving grace there. And it just broke me. I was like, yeah, I gotta go. I was like, I can't do this. I was in high school, never returned to Texas. Never returned. And I left my tip out. I had done every job in the world and I had graduated high school. My grades were so bad, I couldn't get into college.

[Host Avery Woods]

Really?

[Laura Lee]

Yes. I tried. I had like. I barely graduated high school. I remember one teacher called me up there and she said, Ms. Lee, because you do rehearsal before you graduate the night before and at rehearsals, when they tell the students they don't. They did or didn't graduate because they get the finals in, which is diabolical. First of all, what is this euphoria that's. I'm like, that's crazy. Telling us the day rehearsal? So I was scared because I had like 60. I was like 64 D passes.

[Host Avery Woods]

You.

[Laura Lee]

And I didn't even have a thought of college. I was just like 60, 40 locks in that. That high school diploma. Okay, we're locking in 60, 40, 6040A in art. 60, 46,040. Okay. And so one of the teachers there, she was like, Ms. Lee. And she calls me over and I. My heart out. Cuz I thought she was about to tell me I wasn't going to graduate. Yeah, baby, that math class, I was on a whisper and a prayer. I'd gotten kicked out of that class for cheating too. And when I cheated, I went like this.

I'm not. Like, I'm not lying.

[Host Avery Woods]

And then he said, let me break my back to see the answer.

[Laura Lee]

You was like, get out of my class. So he says, go down to the principal's office. Tell him you cheated. And I was like, God damn it.

[Host Avery Woods]

So I said, there goes me walking.

[Laura Lee]

I did. I was like, that was a wrap for me. I was. I was going to fail it anyway. So it was really a Hail Mary anyways. So I didn't go to the principal's office. I walked around for a little bit, went back to his class. I said, the principal is in a meeting. And he said he'll meet with me later. And then he was like, all right. And he forgot and let it go. Period. Never went anyways. She was like, your grades are so horrible. You. I was like, this.

She was like, this is. I cannot believe you did this. Like, this is so horrible. And I went, am I going to graduate? And she was like, yes, but you're great. And I was like, I don't give a fuck. I'm taking my seat in the hot seat with everybody else. And I graduate like by hair on a horse's ass. And then I couldn't get into college. You know what, though?

[Host Avery Woods]

That's okay.

[Laura Lee]

I was like, look at you. I was like, oh, shit, that's what we're doing next.

[Host Avery Woods]

So you said, wait. That was everyone's point the whole time.

[Laura Lee]

Zoo.

[Host Avery Woods]

Who the fuck was going to tell.

[Laura Lee]

Me we didn't want to take a month off? You were already in college.

[Host Avery Woods]

College.

[Laura Lee]

I swear, I was blindsided.

[Host Avery Woods]

Like, wait, you were supposed to apply last December.

[Laura Lee]

I was like, I'm so booked. No, I really was. And my mom dropped out at 17 to marry my dad. My dad graduated high school, my brother graduated high school, my sister dropped out. So for me, I was like, I'm graduating high school. That's good as gold in this family, right? That was like my perspective. And it's so funny. I was dating, I was just starting to date my husband at the end of my senior year and he had like always and Bs and was going off to a really great college and all that. So I don't know why it didn't ever dawn on me, but it's just not the family I came from. So I was like, I'll figure it out.

[Host Avery Woods]

No, I, I feel like it totally has to do with what you're surrounded by.

[Laura Lee]

Right. And I always just had the mentality of I'll figure it out. Because we always did. And I always.

[Commercial Announcer]

On December 19, based on the best selling novel, Amanda Seyfried and Sydney Sweeney star in the Housemaid, a wildly entertaining thriller about a live in housemaid and the wealthy Winchester family experience a twist twisted world where perfection is an illusion and nothing is as it seems. The shocking twists will leave you guessing until the very end. Can you keep a secret? The Housemaid Rated R. Only in theaters December 19th. Get tickets now.

[Host Avery Woods]

Let's chit chat about our flirty friends over at Tinder. Tinder just launched a new photo prompt feature that's changing the crush game and making it easier for you to be your authentic self next to your already stunning photos. You now have the option to include a prompt like my villain origin story or pov, you just met me. Be silly. Be deep. Be the mysterious cool person who occasionally has bangs. It's your journey. Tinder.

[Laura Lee]

It starts with a swipe.

[Host Avery Woods]

Download Tinder today.

[Laura Lee]

Insurance may all seem the same on.

[Rocky Barnes]

The surface, but having insurance isn't the.

[Host Avery Woods]

Same as having State Farm. It's like getting a granola bar with a candle in it when you wanted a three layer birthday cake. You wouldn't settle for just any dessert on your birthday. So don't, don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to getting the help.

[Rocky Barnes]

You need, State Farm is the real deal.

[Host Avery Woods]

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

And it doesn't stop there. I loved hearing about her grind. The multiple jobs she worked, her education, which eventually led her to YouTube.

[Laura Lee]

I had to wait till 21 and I got into college because they don't look at your high school GPA after 21. But you have to take all those, like, classes that prep you that don't count for your credits.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Laura Lee]

So that's how I got in. So I had gotten into night school at Troy University and I would go to school from like 4:00pm to like 11:00 clock at night, full time student. And I was like, all right, I gotta. I was like 21. I had to move out and I had to start paying bills, so I need a full time job. And my girlfriend was like, oh, there's a dermatologist office I work out and we train you there because you don't do blood and you don't do blood pressure. So it's a very specific, specific medical assistant job because it's like cutting out skin cancers and things that they don't even train you for in school to be an ma. So I was like, hell yeah. She was like, how much? I was like, how much did they pay? She was like $9 an hour. And I was like, baby, that's the most money I've ever made in my life.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah. No, back then. Yeah. You said, so I can write a prescription.

[Laura Lee]

Right. I'm getting a penthouse.

[Host Avery Woods]

You're like, I got into medical school, everyone.

[Laura Lee]

I was like, $9. No, really? I was, I was shocked. And I charmed this dermatologist. And he was me. Okay, I don't want to on him too much because he's my. One of my favorite humans on earth and he changed my life. But he was a really strict Navy man and he was like in his 60s and he was pretty tough. Yeah. And he basically put me through boot camp and he tested me, he toughed me out. You know, I wanted to quit so many times I came home crying every day. I never had a job this hard in my life. And I toughed it out. And I was his medical assistant for four and a half years.

[Host Avery Woods]

Wow.

[Laura Lee]

And I started my YouTube channel and dropped out of college during this job. And he called me to his office at the end of it and he was like, I don't want you to do this YouTube thing. He was like, I think you need to be an rn. I think you need to finish school and I think you need to become an rn.

[Host Avery Woods]

Was that what you wanted to do with your college degree?

[Jackie Aina]

Nope. Oh.

[Laura Lee]

I was just getting some, like, marketing business degree. I wanted to.

[Host Avery Woods]

I.

[Laura Lee]

When I started to go to college, you know, you're looking at all the different options for your degree. I was like, I want to be a detective. So I was like, criminal justice.

[Jackie Aina]

Oh.

[Laura Lee]

But then I found out you had to be a police to be a detective. And I was like, hell no. I was like, you don't just get a degree and, like, go figure out the academy. Yeah, so we're not gonna do that. Scratch that one on my list. So I was like, I'll just do business. I switched to marketing and then I was spelling out because I was working, you know, these hours, 12 hour fours, a 10 and a half day, and going to school from, you know, night online class. It was. I. I couldn't keep up and I was really bad at school already. So imagine me trying. I needed all the help I could get. So I was like, I'm filling out of college and I'm going to be a medical assistant for the rest of my life. So I was like. So I. My stepdad at the time was showing me. God, this was so long ago. It's embarrassing. It's not embarrassing. It's 12 years ago.

[Host Avery Woods]

And look at you. You look like you just graduated high school. Thank you. I got boo talk.

[Laura Lee]

I got a lip flip too.

[Host Avery Woods]

Did you?

[Laura Lee]

I did. So my upper lip doesn't move. It's crazy. Anyways, okay, so.

[Host Avery Woods]

Oh, my God, you're my favorite.

[Laura Lee]

My stepdad's like, look at this. I can show the computer on the TV screen with this cord. And I'm like, wow, that's so cool. And he just puts a YouTube video on just to show me. It's Candy Johnson's what's in My Purse video.

[Host Avery Woods]

Oh, my God.

[Laura Lee]

And I was like, ding, ding, ding. And I was like, what the fuck was that? And, you know, she's like the most rings and pink hair, and I'm like, in love with her instincts instantly. I'm like. And so I took my mom's laptop and I watched 10 of her videos. And I was like, I want to do this the rest of my life. I want to do this forever. This is all I want to do.

[Host Avery Woods]

Success looks different for everyone, but I love hearing about the moments for women when they're like, oh, wait, this could be something. Here's Laura talking about her first viral YouTube video and how she cracked the code on the algorithm. What's your first viral video?

[Laura Lee]

Do you remember my first mega viral video? And the gag of the century is it stick? Still my most viewed video on my YouTube channel.

[Host Avery Woods]

Kidding.

[Laura Lee]

Crazy was my second year in California. I had seen a bunch of girls do heatless hairstyles for Back to School. So that's a huge trigger in the algorithm. You have heatless hairstyles. You're going to hit hairstyles, you're going to hit heatless hairstyles. So that's two genres and Back to School is the biggest genre. So you've hit three genres in one title banger. So then I'm like, what if I do 15 hairstyles? But they're all quick boom, whip, you know, it's like heatless. So we're not curling each style. It's like pin it back this way or this ponytail. But now when it comes down to the thumbnail, we put every single hairstyle in the thumbnail. Like I had mapped this genius, what I thought concocted a genius video. Yeah. And I put it out there and it blew. And I knew it was going to blow up like because the science behind it. There is a code Mr. Beast talks about all the time. There is a code to YouTube. It's titles, thumbnails and tags. You can make the best piece of content on this earth. And if your thumbnail sucks, you're not going to get the views.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Laura Lee]

Point blank, period. YouTube runs off an analytical system. All the social media apps do. And sometimes, you know, if you don't just get viral, off cloud, off someone else or like a viral sensation thing that happened, which that didn't happen back in day for YouTube, that happens with Tik Tok, you know, like go on Love island, you'll be viral. Well, YouTube was different.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Laura Lee]

So I basically after that video, it confirmed for me what I thought I knew about the algorithm. And that video got like 15 million views. And like that was unheard of on YouTube. And my channel just little by little kept exploding from there.

[Host Avery Woods]

And then there's Rocky the OG Instagram girl when she realized that Instagram could be her full time gig. And it's honestly iconic. What was your like I made it moment where you knew this was going to be the career for you? Not so much modeling because obviously you were already in that sign, but more so the fashion influencing side.

[Rocky Barnes]

I think the aha moment for me was when I got booked for my first job as an influencer. And it, it was actually like probably one of the most iconic jobs I've ever had. It was the first one I got. I got. I was shot by Patrick Demarchelier for Sam Edelman's eight page advertorial in the September issue of Vogue.

[Host Avery Woods]

Damn.

[Rocky Barnes]

I was like, okay. And it was, it was for Rocky, like Rocky for Sam Edelman. Not like we want to hire Rocky as a model. It was like they wanted me as an influencer and I was like, this is so fucking cool. I got to shoot with Patrick Demarchelier. I had the whole Vogue team there. I was like, okay, this is a pinch me, I made it moment.

[Host Avery Woods]

And I love Avery Kroll's story as she started in high school, which is just insane, especially talking to her and knowing what a great head she has on her shoulders at such a young age. Here's her moment when she realized, oh, wait, this is a real job. When did you start social media? How old were you?

[Avery Crow]

A freshman in high school.

[Host Avery Woods]

In high school?

[Avery Crow]

Yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

What were you posting? Was this like, Instagram? No.

[Avery Crow]

Tick Tock. It was during COVID You were freshman.

[Host Avery Woods]

In high school during COVID Yes. I was pregnant, working in the icu, hating my life, and I said, what the fuck is TikTok? I said, I can't keep up with another app. Are you kidding me? Okay, so you're a freshman in high school, and you started doing what on Tick Tock?

[Avery Crow]

I think it started off as just, like, cute little thirst trap videos, and then I would put words over it, but then I kind of figured out what words would get traction, and so I kept doing that, and then it kept growing off of that. And then I picked up on YouTube and started doing, like, YouTube vlogs. And I would vlog, like, school.

Soccer, like, stuff like that. And then I think I started doing vlogs on Tick Tock. And then that's when I started doing morning routines and stuff like that. And then that's kind of. And story times mostly, like doing my makeup, talking about my boyfriend, or random stuff.

[Host Avery Woods]

Those are my favorite videos to watch.

[Avery Crow]

By the way.

[Host Avery Woods]

Anytime I see you sitting down with that cute little blonde Bob doing a Garrett and me, I said, oh, I'm locked in. I'm like, what's the drama at U of A right now?

I'm like, my kids are screaming in the background like, hold on, Mommy needs to know what's going on in the college world.

[Avery Crow]

Wait, that's hilarious.

[Host Avery Woods]

When were you like, okay, this could be a job for me?

[Avery Crow]

My senior year of high school, I got cheated on, and I made like, a get ready with me about that, and that blew up, and I got a lot of. A lot more followers from that. And then I had a bunch of, I guess, like, what is it? Like, agencies or like, like management teams?

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah, yeah.

[Avery Crow]

Reaching out to me, being like, why do you not have a manager? Like, what? What are you doing? And that's when I was like, oh, wait, like, I'm not charging enough. Like, what Am I doing like, I need help? And so that's when I really started to take it seriously.

[Host Avery Woods]

And are you still with your same management now? Yeah, that's. I feel like everyone kind of goes through that phase where unless you know someone on social media, like everyone kind of goes into it. Very naive.

[Avery Crow]

Yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

And I'll never forget the first meeting I had with my management. I was like, I'm sorry, how much you are you charging for what? Like I could not believe the amount of money in it. And then you realize like, wow, this is an actual business. So you were in high school when this happened? So how was your high school life? Like, how was the community around you? Do people give you shit for being on social media? Were they supportive?

[Avery Crow]

I went to us. I wouldn't, I don't know if it's considered small, but I went to a private school and so very tight knit. Everyone knew everyone and I was definitely the YouTube tick tock girl. But I don't know, I would, I would wake up early before school, film my morning routines. I would drive to school and then in between every single class I had my headphones on, I had my hood up and I was, would be editing in the hallways or like I would go take a bathroom break and sit in the courtyard and film my voiceovers and so that I had that video ready to post by 2:30 when I got out.

[Laura Lee]

Yeah.

[Avery Crow]

And like people definitely made comments about it, but.

I think they also thought it was so cool. So I was like, whatever.

[Host Avery Woods]

I feel like for at least myself and a lot of people I know in the beginning when you're trying to grow, people think it's so cringey or give you shit. But then once they see you successful, they're like, wait, how'd you do that? Like, wait, I want to be your friend or I want your pr. And I'm like, hey, you weren't nice to me in the beginning. I know, like you don't deserve.

[Avery Crow]

I think I was just kind of like, you'll get it when you get it. And you can make fun of me now, but like I know the opportunities that I'm getting and I'm doing this at such a young age and like, I don't know, I just had the confidence for it and it made it fun. Like I would bring my Canon G7X to soccer practice and soccer games and I would like have everyone in the background and I just tried to like make it fun.

[Host Avery Woods]

Something that comes up a lot on Cheers that I'm really passionate about is Women being the breadwinners for their family and sadly, the judgment that comes with that, I personally have experienced that an insane amount, which is crazy. I feel like we should be uplifting women and being so encouraging. Because if a man is a breadwinner going on a work trip, no one's saying anything to him. They're praising him for supporting his family. But when a woman does it, there's a problem with it. I especially think there's a difference when it comes to not just being a woman, but also a mother. And this clip from my conversation with Jackie, I really love it so much because she talks about the judgment that comes with being a parent online. There's no way he would choose to be a stay at home dad.

[Jackie Aina]

And I'm like, oh yeah, that he wouldn't shoot. Not choosing it is crazy.

[Host Avery Woods]

Well, what's funny is we always said our kids were so little out of school, we would never get this opportunity where they have both their parents at home. And like, yes, I work and I have to travel, but the majority of the time I am home, I'm working from home. I'm so privileged in that way. But both of our kids, we just talked about this off camera. Like, both of my kids are going to school tomorrow and it's the first time they've ever been in full time school. Monday through Friday from 8 to 3 will never get them home again full time. You know, like, that's a huge. It's almost like you're mourning. And I'm so grateful that we've had that opportunity. But it's so interesting, the comments I get. And I'm always like, if I was a man, you would never say this to me.

[Jackie Aina]

Yeah, of course.

[Host Avery Woods]

It's wild.

[Jackie Aina]

Crazy.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Jackie Aina]

There's definitely women that I follow that I know that are like successful and just them even being outside, they're like, where's your kids? Why would they, why would homegirl bring her kids to the bar? I'm confused.

[Host Avery Woods]

Oh yeah. Or when we go on a date.

[Jackie Aina]

She can't go to the bar sometimes. But like, that's the thing what kills me. When you're on a date with your husband, they're looking at you like, where's the kids? With your husband.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yep.

[Jackie Aina]

Like, you're both allowed to have a social life outside of your kids.

[Host Avery Woods]

Well, also, I'm like, we've been together for 313 years. Like, we came first. Like, we go on our once a night date night because we're happily married and our kids get to see that we prioritize and focus on each other. And mind you, we usually don't even go on a date night until after our kids are in bed. So we did the whole day with them, we put them down, then I get dressed up cute for him and we go out and then we're up the the next morning at 7am Getting ready for school.

[Jackie Aina]

You have that right. How the hell do people think the kids got there?

[Host Avery Woods]

Exactly.

[Jackie Aina]

We're grown, honey. We're grown.

[Host Avery Woods]

Thank you. Get it. You get it. And then I had a very raw conversation with the cast of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives regarding the same sort of thing, because obviously as a woman, it's really, really hard, but when you come from a background and culture that's very conservative, like they all do being part of the Mormon Church or have been part of the Mormon Church in the past, they're raised that the woman takes care of the house and raises the kids and the man works and is the head of the household. And I really loved Jen Affleck's perspective on this. Jen talks very openly about how it was stepping into that role in a culture that expects the complete opposite. So obviously there's a certain, you know, standard or maybe misconception when it comes to the Mormon Church with males being the breadwinner. Yeah. So, Jen, for you, were you guys raised that way? So is it, is it a, is it a taboo thing what you're doing, how your husband's kind of taking a post from med school and you're able to focus on your career?

[Jen Affleck]

I wouldn't say it was a taboo thing in my family, but it was definitely like more taboo when it came to Zach's family. He was just shown his whole life, like, I mean, his dad was a doctor. His mom also worked actually, but was mainly a stay at home mom. But what he saw was like, like the value the man brings in the house is through providing and the woman's role is to nurture. And so I think going into our marriage, like he expected that from me. When we had committed to med school, it was never like my plan to like start doing, influencing or working, but it naturally just happened because I knew I was going to have to somewhat take on that role of providing because I didn't want to go through like debt and whatnot.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Jen Affleck]

And so naturally, through our marriage, it kind of, I just naturally took that role. And it was really hard for him at first because he didn't know how to navigate it. And he also felt like in a lot of ways, like it brought out A lot of insecurities because he's like, wait, wait, what value do I bring if I'm not providing?

[Host Avery Woods]

Next up, motherhood. And there are a million different things and ways we could talk about what it is to be a mom. But I loved my conversation with Macy, Jen and Michaela from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives because they were all pregnant at the same time. All of you guys are already so busy and your careers are like skyrocketing and you're having more kids. So how are we doing?

[Laura Lee]

Not well.

[Host Avery Woods]

I'm like, unwear, Unwell, Unwell. Every single day. I'm like, how are you doing?

[Rocky Barnes]

No, I think that's what's nice is.

[Laura Lee]

That we're like dying.

[Host Avery Woods]

No.

[Jackie Aina]

Yeah, Together.

[Host Avery Woods]

And you guys are all so close together and due dates, which is so fun. Cuz I feel like you're kind of experiencing all the same things the same time.

[Laura Lee]

Yeah, I'm like, jen can't relate to us right now. She goes on runs.

[Host Avery Woods]

No, I've gotten every. They're trying to. Poor thing. Well, and you guys are doing so much press and traveling, so you're champs. Yeah. And you were so sick in the beginning.

[Google Pixel Advertiser]

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[Host Avery Woods]

You know those nights where you just want to open a bottle of wine? That feels a little special, but not intimidating. That's where Riva de la Rosa comes in. An Italian white wine brand that's elegant and refreshing but never intimidating. It's wine you can enjoy anytime. With Riva de la Rosa, it's like the magic of Italy in every sip. Approachable luxury that feels easy and effortless. Two standout wines you must try. Vermintino Crisp and Coastal and Gavi Bright, flirty, with just the right touch of elegance. They're the perfect match for whatever the night calls for. From a simple pasta dish to long conversations with your besties. And the best part? It's a screw cap so you can pop it open anywhere, anytime. No corkscrew, no drama, just wine. My husband and I are obsessed obsessed with Riva de la Rosa. One of our favorite things to do is do a cozy in home date night after the kids go down. And sharing a nice bottle of wine is one of our favorite things to do. I made some vodka pasta, he grilled some chicken, we had some veggies on the side. We are big wine people here and you can definitely taste the difference between a good quality wine and a not so good quality wine. And I will say for the price point, Riva de la Rosa gives you that delicious taste of luxury. Bring a little taste of Italy to your next wine night. Check out rivadal rosa wine.com to find a bottle near you. Cheers disclaimer must be 21 plus. Please drink responsibly. Let's chit chat about our flirty friends over at Tinder. Tinder just launched a new photo prompt feature that's changing the crush game and making it easier for you to be your authentic self next to your already stunning photos. You now have the option to include a prompt like my villain origin story or POV you just met me. Be silly. Be deep. Be the mysterious cool person who occasionally has bangs. It's your journey. Tinder.

[Laura Lee]

It starts with a swipe.

[Host Avery Woods]

Download Tinder today. Sick. Another favorite conversation I had with Laura was about her niece Aaron and a lot of people that have followed. Laura knows that she adopted her niece Aaron, who is such a sweetheart by the way. I tell Laura all the time like she has such a great head on her shoulders, is so responsible and Laura is a huge part of the reason that she has this incredible life and so many opportunities like what her and Tyler did was so incredible and we had such a raw emotional conversation about how she came about to being her guardian.

[Laura Lee]

I have always had my eye on Aaron because my sister had her as a teenager. So me and my Sister only two years apart. So Aaron's always been like a little sister or like, I've always felt like a little, you know, we're a little closer than a regular, I think, aunt and niece situation.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Laura Lee]

Because we've pretty much always been in the same household. I mean, there are occasional times we weren't. Whenever she was living with my sister, but. So I've always had my eye on her. And I noticed my sister getting worse off and worse off and worse off. You can't do that. It's 20, 2018. Like, we gotta. She has to go to school. And she had all Fs, all of her grades. I could tell how depressed she was and low. I was like, this is getting bad. So I was like. But so I tried to get my sister to sign her over. My sister was so bad off. All this time, me and her were in such bad terms that she wouldn't. And I ended up going back to Alabama and fighting for her in court, and I won her.

[Host Avery Woods]

And I didn't know you went to court.

[Laura Lee]

I battled for her and then. Sorry. It's a touchy side.

[Jackie Aina]

Oh, it's okay.

[Laura Lee]

No, it's good. I love talking about it because a lot of people have to do this.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah. And you know what? I just want to say, too. Imagine where she would be if you didn't do that 100. You know, and the fact that you were raised the same way. Say that your mom was trying to raise Aaron.

[Laura Lee]

Yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

But you wanted to break that cycle.

[Laura Lee]

And you did that for her. Yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

You know, and we always talk about that, too, off camera. Because I'm always asking about her and wanting to know what she's doing.

[Laura Lee]

You are. You asked me about her every single time.

[Host Avery Woods]

Well, because I remember when you. When she moved in with you guys. I remember that YouTube video.

[Laura Lee]

Oh, do you?

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah. I remember you guys, like, sitting down and I was like, holy.

[Laura Lee]

Like, my manager was like, you. You should tell people why you have a child living with you.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Laura Lee]

And I was like, I'm so burned. I don't want to do that. And she was like, no. She was like, you should.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Laura Lee]

She's like, you're not gonna get hate. Yeah. I was like, I've given so much, you know, and I've been cooked online.

[Host Avery Woods]

Well, and you also didn't want to talk about it to get clout. You did this behind the scenes to help your needs.

[Laura Lee]

It was exactly to get praise. Oh, my God, no. And I was like, I wouldn't do it without my sister's Approval either. And so just because I would have had to tell a lot of her story in order to tell why I have Aaron.

[Host Avery Woods]

Totally.

[Laura Lee]

So I wanted to talk to her and she had gotten incarcerated so she was sober. And so our relationship, believe it or not, started to kind of heal while ever she was incarcerated. And so which by the way, I didn't know was going to happen whenever I took Aaron. So I was gonna have to take Aaron anyways. But.

Me and her, my sister, you know, we talk on the phone all the time. My sister even called in on that video and talked a little bit, you know, and she's fully respons for her mistakes and so we have a really good relationship now. My sister's doing incredible. I wish she would go work with like an addiction center because she's so incredible and inspiring. She like, she totally turned her life around this really cool story. But anyways, Aaron had moved with me because things had gotten bad this summer. She was 14 but she had to go back to school. And that's whenever I was trying to get my sister to sign her over and she wouldn't. So it sucks so bad I had to send her back to Alabama for six months until my court case.

[Host Avery Woods]

Does Aaron want to do social media for her job?

[Laura Lee]

Yes, Aaron, she wants to do social media. That's what she's going for.

[Host Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Laura Lee]

And I encourage it because it worked for me. So who am I to be like.

[Host Avery Woods]

It'S a business now. People can on it all they want but it is a huge, huge business.

[Laura Lee]

And so she's going for, she's doing a really good job with it. I'm really proud of her. I'm like, you know, if you don't want to do it, you do have to figure your out. But I think you should do it. I think you should go for it. She lives in a house right now with like seven girls and she's single now and she's. Oh my gosh. She is living the LA 21 year old fantasy.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah. Rocky also talked a lot about how she balances her career, motherhood and her identity and how becoming a mom changed her confidence and her entire outlook on life.

[Rocky Barnes]

And I, I love sharing my life, especially like my kids. Like yeah, I have so much fun and I like to show people that they can do it all. I feel like I've worked really hard at finding a balance being a mom, working, traveling, living a really fun life and being able to share that. I, I like women to know that yeah, being a mom is hard but you can do it.

[Host Avery Woods]

Totally. And you can keep your career. Actually, I. I tell people all the time. I completely transitioned my entire career and built this massive business after my kids were already born. Like, I didn't. I. I didn't start any of that until my daughter was, you know, probably three to six months is when it, like, really became serious. And that was my fourth kid, so it really is possible. Yeah. And I think, you know, obviously we share the highlights, but as a mom, like, you want to share those moments, and you're proud of it. And I feel like this next moment is so important. It was the moment when Rocky realized that she did want to have kids and how her second marriage shifted everything for her.

[Rocky Barnes]

I always wanted kids. That wasn't the question.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

I think when I got a taste of success in my career, I.

It was just so empowering. And once I got a taste of that, I was like, I'm not stopping now.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

It's being able to be, I think, financially independent gives you so much power to be able to make decisions for what you truly want and not having to, like, be reliant on someone and being like, I can't leave this marriage because I can't afford to. And unfortunately, a lot of women are in that position. So many we give up our lives for children to, like, be there at home, but we're essentially stuck. And I think having a sense of freedom and power, I was able to, like, I already had those feelings, and I had the courage then to act on them because I knew I could take care of myself. And it's sad to think that a lot of people feel stuck or trapped because of that. But I was also so young, like, at 25, I thought I knew everything.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

I didn't know shit.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

You know, and I think a lot going into a marriage, you have to, like, really be so obsessed with your person because it just gets harder and harder as it goes. And those little things that bother you.

[Host Avery Woods]

Just, like, multiply, especially when you have kids. Like. Like. Yeah. You're now not the priority.

[Rocky Barnes]

Yeah.

[Host Avery Woods]

Your kids will always come first. Yeah. And if you.

[Rocky Barnes]

I know. Ask my husband. He's not happy about.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah, but it's like, if you don't have a strong foundation and then you add children to that, that's like the straw that broke the camel's body.

[Laura Lee]

Totally.

[Host Avery Woods]

You can't survive that. Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

And I. I think I.

[Avery Crow]

There were.

[Rocky Barnes]

I think I was unaware how much I compromised myself. The first time I got married, I was like, oh, he's a really great Guy. This is what I'm supposed to do.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

He wants to marry me. Like, this is amazing. I should do this. I don't think it was because I was so in love and wanted this. I was kind of just like, oh, this is what you're supposed to do. And I came from a divorced family, so for me, it was like this vision of a white picket fence, like, the perfect family I never had. I love my family, but it's, like, non traditional. And having this, like, beautiful life in La Jolla, it just felt like this is what I should be doing. It's kind of what I always dreamed about. But then you kind of are there, and you're like, okay, well, marriage is more than the dream of it. You have to really be matched with your person.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah. So what was the point with Matt where you were like, okay, I feel ready to be a mom?

[Rocky Barnes]

Well, I think age was a lot of it, too. Like, I had my first at 34.

[Host Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Rocky Barnes]

And I want. Matt's three years younger than me. He was like, just ready. We got. We got married in 2018, and then in September of 2018, we went to Coachella April. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go off birth control after Coachella 1 last weekend. And I'm like, it'll probably, like, take me a year, whatever. I got pregnant, like, that day.

[Host Avery Woods]

Oh, yeah. When you get off birth control, your hormones spike.

[Rocky Barnes]

Yeah. I didn't know that.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah. Same thing happened to me during the pandemic. My IUD was embedded in my uterus, and that was like, when you couldn't get a doctor's appointment. Yeah. During the pandemic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Immediately got pregnant.

[Rocky Barnes]

So then that happened real quick.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

Honestly, I wanted to have kids before 35 because of, like, the risks that elevate.

[Host Avery Woods]

And. Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

My second was a geriatric pregnancy, and they need to change that.

[Host Avery Woods]

Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Like, geriatric advanced maternal age is the term. Rud 5 is advanced maternal age.

[Rocky Barnes]

Well, I think back in the day, it was.

[Host Avery Woods]

It was. Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

I was like. And I gave birth in New York both times, because my husband's from New York and his dad's a doctor.

[Host Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Rocky Barnes]

And his dad's best friend was our obgyn, so.

We ended up going back and forth to New York. I was the youngest mom in the waiting room. Like, all in New York. All these women are, like, in their 40s having kids.

[Host Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Rocky Barnes]

So I think they need to change the name.

[Host Avery Woods]

I think they absolutely need to change the name. I hope you guys enjoyed revisiting 2025 with us. This has been such an amazing year, like we said, and we wouldn't be able to do it without you. We are so grateful. All of these women that were on with me and were so vulnerable and had real raw conversations, thank you so much. You inspire me every day with your humor, your grind, your hustle, and I'm just proud to call you all friends. Cheers to 2026. Let it be the best year yet. Cheers.

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[Host Avery Woods]

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[Laura Lee]

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[Rocky Barnes]

Ever since switching to T mobile, something weird has been happening. I get to cut lines.

[Laura Lee]

Oh, right this way.

[Host Avery Woods]

Who me?

[Rocky Barnes]

I can stream shows at 30,000ft and I was able to buy reserve tickets.

[Laura Lee]

For my favorite band.

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