secret lives of mormon wives

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cheers! with Avery Woods – Episode: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Podcast Information:

• Title: CHEERS! with Avery Woods
• Host: Avery Woods
• Episode: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives
• Release Date: May 12, 2025
• Description: Sit down and enjoy a glass of wine with your host, Avery Woods, as she deep dives into all things life with her weekly guest.

---

Introduction and Guest Welcome

In this engaging episode titled "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives," host Avery Woods welcomes three stars from Hulu’s hit show, "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" — Michaela, Macy, and Jen. Avery expresses her enthusiasm for the group, highlighting their unique positions as pregnant, independent women who defy traditional Mormon roles by being the primary breadwinners in their families.

Avery Woods [03:00]: "You guys are all so busy and your careers are skyrocketing and you're having more kids. So how are we doing?"

Understanding Mormonism and Common Misconceptions

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around dispelling common misconceptions about the Mormon (LDS) church. The guests emphasize that polygamy is a widespread misunderstanding, clarifying that they are not involved in such practices.

Macy [20:20]: "I always used to say in the beginning when we first started the show, I'm like, we're not polygamous."

Jen adds that the recent scandals have further confused outsiders about the true nature of Mormon practices.

Jen [20:44]: "And then the scandal came out and then everybody was really confused, like, oh."

They discuss how their upbringing in different regions (California vs. Utah) influenced their perceptions and experiences within the church, noting the diverse backgrounds they bring to the show.

Reality TV Dynamics and Filming Season Two

Avery delves into the dynamics of filming season two, especially with the introduction of a new cast member, Miranda. The guests share their initial reservations and the ensuing drama related to Miranda’s involvement.

Michaela [12:29]: "No, we're all good with Miranda."

The conversation touches on how Miranda’s return was perceived within the group, particularly concerning clout and personal intentions. Michaela and Macy express their concerns about Miranda joining due to the existing bonds and the group's efforts since the show's inception.

Macy [14:13]: "I think Miranda, she's a very nice person in general. Like, you can't, like, really not like her."

They also discuss the challenges of candidly sharing their lives on camera, balancing authenticity with privacy, and managing public scrutiny.

Personal Challenges and Triumphs

The guests open up about their personal struggles, including health issues, pregnancy, and mental health. Jen shares her journey through intense therapy to salvage her marriage amidst the pressures of reality TV fame.

Jen [27:04]: "We really have never been, like, happier than right now."

Michaela discusses her healing process, emphasizing the positive impact of her pregnancy on her autoimmune condition.

Michaela [24:11]: "This is honestly the most healing I've gotten in three years."

Macy reveals her ongoing battle with toxic relationships, particularly her strained relationship with Dakota, and how it affects her emotional well-being.

Macy [41:31]: "He's the one in the baton. So I'm trying to think of timeline because obviously the show ended..."

Relationships and Family Dynamics

The episode delves into the complexities of their marriages, especially concerning traditional gender roles in the Mormon community. Jen explains the challenges her husband faced stepping back from medical school to support their family and her career.

Jen [37:33]: "He expected that from me. When we had committed to med school, it was never, like, my plan to start doing, influencing, or working, but it naturally just happened..."

Macy shares her perspective on maintaining healthy relationships and the importance of mutual support, especially when navigating public life and personal challenges.

Macy [43:54]: "I have a thing with toxic men. The girls know that and they call me the dick hater in the group."

Projects and Future Plans

Each guest discusses their upcoming projects and aspirations. Macy is excited about her memoir set to launch in October, aiming for the New York Times bestsellers list. Michaela and Jen talk about their plans for natural births and ongoing health journeys.

Macy [32:08]: "I have a memoir coming out in October."

They also touch on their professional endeavors, including Macy's business "Baby Mama," and how filming the show intertwines with their personal lives.

Balancing Public and Private Lives

The conversation highlights the tension between sharing personal stories on a reality TV platform and maintaining privacy. The guests discuss how therapy and personal growth are portrayed on the show, striving for authenticity while protecting sensitive aspects of their lives.

Jen [35:11]: "I love that I share too much."

Michaela reflects on the necessity of oversharing as a coping mechanism, which sometimes leads to regrets about what gets aired.

Michaela [35:23]: "I almost overshare because I don't have that boundary of like, what's appropriate."

Conclusion and Upcoming Season Highlights

As the episode wraps up, Avery Woods expresses her support and excitement for the guests' future endeavors. She encourages listeners to watch the upcoming season, which is set to release in seven days from the episode's date.

Avery Woods [57:10]: "So everyone go to Countdown and where can everyone find you guys on socials?"

The guests share their social media handles and express gratitude for the platform to share their stories.

Michaela [57:37]: "Michaela Matthews Views on TikTok and Instagram, it's Michaela." Jen [57:27]: "I'm Jennifer L. Affleck."

Avery concludes with heartfelt well-wishes, emphasizing the importance of genuine connections and the strength found in vulnerability.

Avery Woods [57:49]: "Cheers, guys. Cheers. Pacifico is a Mexican lager..."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Avery Woods [03:00]: "You guys are all so busy and your careers are skyrocketing and you're having more kids. So how are we doing?"
• Macy [20:20]: "I always used to say in the beginning when we first started the show, I'm like, we're not polygamous."
• Jen [27:04]: "We really have never been, like, happier than right now."
• Michaela [24:11]: "This is honestly the most healing I've gotten in three years."
• Macy [43:54]: "I have a thing with toxic men. The girls know that and they call me the dick hater in the group."

---

Social Media and Further Engagement

Listeners are encouraged to follow the guests on their respective social media platforms for more personal insights and updates on their lives and projects.

• Jen: Jennifer L. Affleck on TikTok and Instagram
• Michaela: Michaela Matthews Views on TikTok and Instagram
• Macy: Social Media Handles

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Conclusion: This episode of "Cheers! with Avery Woods" provides an intimate look into the lives of Michaela, Macy, and Jen as they navigate their identities as Mormon wives, pregnant mothers, and public figures. Through honest conversations, they address misconceptions about their faith, the challenges of reality TV exposure, and their personal growth journeys. The episode is a blend of candid storytelling, heartfelt insights, and supportive camaraderie, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives."

Transcript

[Avery Woods]

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[Macy]

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[Avery Woods]

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[Macy]

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[Avery Woods]

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[Macy]

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[Avery Woods]

Canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on required finance agreement due bill credits end if you pay up devices early ct mobile.com this episode is brought to you by Huggies Snug and Dry. We all know I am a mama but I was also a pediatric and Neonatal ICU nurse so I have changed a lot of diapers in my day. Experience unexpected softness and up to 100 leak proof protection which is very important. So snug, so dry. More parents choose the new Huggies snug and dry softness versus the leading premium diaper Huggies. We got you baby. Hi guys. I'm so excited for today's episode. We are pouring the Diet Coke and spilling tea with three stars of the hit show Secret Lives of Mormon Wives on Hulu. And if you know me then you know how obsessed I am for the show and I cannot wait for season two. Today we have Michaela, Macy and Jen and I'm so excited to catch up with them and find out all the drama that's going on in season two. You guys know I lived in Arizona for a very long time so I'm very familiar with the Mormon LDS culture. Scotty, who you guys are also very familiar with, served a Mormon mission. So for me, me it's not as taboo as a lot of you guys but I love asking certain questions and learning all the tea to spill with you guys about their life as Mormon wives and also getting a better look at it in a reality TV form. All three of them are also pregnant, which I find really, really fun. And they also are a bit of taboo Mormons. They are the breadwinners for their family which is very unheard of in the Mormon world. So I love that as independent queens and working women. I am so excited for today's episode and get to know these ladies a little bit more. So please welcome Michaela, Jen and Macy. Hi welcome to Cheers. I'm your Host Avery Woods. Hi, ladies.

[Michaela]

Hello.

[Avery Woods]

Welcome. Thank you for coming. I'm obsessed with all of you. You know, I love you all. We actually met. I met Michaela and Macy in, like, 2023.

[Macy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

With m. We got tacos.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Avery Woods]

Like a long. That's actually two years ago.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

That's wild.

[Macy]

I can't believe that was that long.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. Because you guys were in town, you messaged us, and we're like, let's get together. We went to joyride.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Avery Woods]

And now your life is completely different, upside down. And then, Jen, I followed you after you were dancing on the counter. Your iconic dances. I'm obsessed. I'm the only one here not pregnant, by the way, so should be.

[Michaela]

Don't you want another?

[Avery Woods]

No. Well, I'm like, kind of like.

[Michaela]

I see you teasing it. I know you want one.

[Avery Woods]

No, I do, I do. I would have a million more, but David is very adamant about even numbers. And a couple weeks ago, he was like, I feel like we should do twins or nothing. And I'm like, that's not a statement that you can use. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Michaela]

Twins or nothing.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, that's absolutely. So my plan is our vow renewals in 2026. So I said we would reevaluate at that time.

[Macy]

Okay, that's a good plan.

[Avery Woods]

We'll. But all of you guys are already so busy and your careers are, like, skyrocketing and you're having more kids. So how are we doing?

[Michaela]

Not well.

[Macy]

I'm like, on a year unwell.

[Jen]

Every single day. I'm like, how are you doing?

[Michaela]

Yeah, No, I think that's what's nice is that we're, like, dying.

[Jen]

No.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Together.

[Avery Woods]

And you guys are all so close together in due dates, which is so fun because I feel like you're kind of experiencing all the same things the same time.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I'm like, Jen can't relate to us right now.

[Macy]

No.

[Michaela]

She goes on runs.

[Macy]

No.

[Michaela]

I've gotten every cold they're trying.

[Avery Woods]

Poor thing. Well, and you guys are doing so much press and traveling, so you're champs.

[Michaela]

And you were so sick in the beginning.

[Jen]

So sick. That's okay, though.

[Avery Woods]

I know you guys have film crews here. Is this for season two or is this for another season?

[Michaela]

We are filming another season. That'll be hopefully soon.

[Jen]

Oh, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Period. Okay. For that.

[Macy]

Just always film. There's no breaks. We don't get a break.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, I remember. And this is such a random, like, comparison, but we have family that lives next door to one of the Kardashians. And so we were just driving by, and I remember Courtney's doors being open and just looking in because I was literally being nosy. Or you're like. And it was just full of probably 20 dudes in all black with 15 cameras in her entryway. And mind you, her house is a mansion. It's probably 20, 000 square feet.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

And it would. There was no room to walk in. I remember thinking in my head, I could never do that because it would be. It would overwhelm me.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

I feel so anxious. Do you guys have moments where you.

[Macy]

Definitely don't have that many people?

[Michaela]

But, yeah, I'm like, probably have a way different things going on on a bigger scale.

[Jen]

Got to be my issue. I forget the cameras.

[Michaela]

That.

[Jen]

I forget the cameras are there. That's my issue.

[Michaela]

Yeah. I can definitely see definitely season two, that's been a big problem because we're more comfortable. And then we say things and we're like, oh, they got that.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And they're like.

[Avery Woods]

Because they got you around.

[Michaela]

Yeah, you got you in 4K. And you're like, oh, okay. You get too comfortable.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, well. And it's probably nice when you kind of block them out. But then time goes by and you're probably like, I wish I wouldn't have said that, but, I mean, everyone that has an online platform feels that way.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

I probably shouldn't have cried or online or.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Said that certain thing. You know, I actually don't even know how all of you originally met with Mom Talk. How did that come about?

[Michaela]

About. Yeah, I met Macy back in 2020. Oh, yeah. So we were friends, like, two years before even going to Mom Talk together.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then we met Jen when we. After we did the pilot season one. When was that?

[Macy]

They recast.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Taylor went to jail.

[Avery Woods]

Wait, how long ago was this originally started?

[Michaela]

20. It was.

[Avery Woods]

Right.

[Michaela]

The year after the Swinging Scandal. So was it 2022? End of 2022.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Dang. Okay, so it's been a bit. And then it was on the hiatus when Taylor went to jail.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

And then I. She was one of the first guests on my podcast, which I was.

[Michaela]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Avery Woods]

She's like, oh, yeah, come on by. Sit on my couch. I just got a jail. I'll tell you whatever.

[Macy]

Yeah, she's like, fresh.

[Michaela]

Come on over.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, Seriously. But you know what? I. Obviously there's so many online opinions of everyone that has an online platform, but I will say I respect how honest she is, because that can come with so much backlash and hate. And she was so real. She didn't give a. Yeah.

[Macy]

That's why everyone loves her, is because she just tells the truth.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Macy]

It's like, it's refreshing.

[Avery Woods]

It is. And it does come with hate, though, because people hold it against you. But I think everyone is so filtered now because it is scary to have an online presence. And she just didn't care.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And she still doesn't care.

[Avery Woods]

No, she doesn't.

[Michaela]

I think you never have to worry about Taylor lying, because I'm like, she just. She always tells the truth.

[Macy]

Well.

[Jen]

And she'll just post also five minutes after.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Something. Yeah, Yeah, I know. I've seen that. Where I'm like, she go on her Instagram stories and I'm like, okay, Scott, what's going on? What's the tea? Because I never know what's happening.

[Macy]

She goes, rock a little bit too.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. So how. Who approached Hu when it came to the show, Did Hulu come to you guys and say, like, hey, I think we should start something? Yeah. We had a lot of other.

[Michaela]

It was a lot of other production companies. I think we had, like 10 to 15 different production companies that were, like, bidding with our management.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then when Hulu came, obviously they're like, oh, this is like, you want this one? And then just like, a little bit of time negotiating a good deal.

[Macy]

Who paid for the pilot to be made because they wanted it. So, like, originally it was me, Michaela, Taylor, Whitney. And then Demi got added in, like, towards the very end of the pilot, like, filming, like, she filmed, like, one day. Right.

[Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Macy]

So then. Then it, like, obviously groomed from there.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Wow.

[Michaela]

And then a year later, after Taylor went to jail and came back, then they did the recasting.

[Macy]

There was more.

[Avery Woods]

It's just like the casual. She went to jail. That gets.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Did you think it would be what it is now?

[Macy]

No, I didn't. No, no, No. I think it's crazy because it's like when it's your own life, like, what's so exciting about it? And like, so then I feel like when I even watched, I'm like, it's okay. And then everyone loved it. And I was like, okay, I guess.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. So when it first got announced, I have to tell you, it's funny because I remember Scott and I were like, I don't understand how they're making a show out of this. But do you know what we've discovered? It is. It's because we lived in of, like, the Arizona Utah Idaho LDS world. Like, that's. That's. We're very familiar with that. I've never been Mormon, but, like, pretty much all of my friends were Mormons.

[Michaela]

Served a mission, especially in Arizona. Arizona is like a little Utah, right? Yeah, it's like a mini Utah, Especially.

[Avery Woods]

In, like, the Gilbert Mesa area where the temples are. It's very highly. So anyways, because we were surrounded with that, I think we were just so used to it that we kind of forget the rest of the world doesn't really understand what Mormon culture is. And so they're very fascinated by it. And so when I watched it, I was like, oh, okay. From an outside perspective, people are probably like, what the fuck?

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Crazy.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

You know, Exactly.

[Michaela]

I think they didn't know what to expect. Like, I. Again, I think there's a lot of, like, misconceptions about Mormons.

[Avery Woods]

Yes.

[Michaela]

But I think that's what. What's so interesting about this show is that everyone grew up Mormon. Like, I haven't been active for 10 years. Jesse isn't active. Miranda's.

[Avery Woods]

But you haven't been active for 10 years.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

I didn't know that.

[Michaela]

Yeah, I know.

[Jen]

They always.

[Michaela]

That was the rumor of me. Season one.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Was that I was the most devout and I was like, how do I get roped in there?

[Macy]

How did that sneak in there?

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

It's so funny. Yeah. So, like, a lot of us have grown up in the church, actually, all of us have grown up in the church, but we're all from, like, different backgrounds with it. Like, we grew up in California, so it was very different from, like.

[Avery Woods]

Sure.

[Michaela]

Utah Mormons.

[Avery Woods]

Totally.

[Michaela]

And then some of us has.

[Jen]

Love.

[Michaela]

Have left the church. Some of us are still very active in the church. So it's just like, the different perspectives of it is really nice, I think. Refreshing.

[Avery Woods]

Jen, were you born and raised Mormon?

[Jen]

Yes, I was.

[Avery Woods]

You were? I. We lived in San Diego for a little bit, and there is a very different culture with the Mormon community there because they obviously have a temple, but it's just a different type of Mormon, if that makes sense. I mean, you guys get what I mean. But it's so interesting because when my parents moved me to Arizona, I didn't know what a Mormon was, what LDS was. And I just remember it being talked about so much. I thought it was like a club I wasn't a part of. I didn't realize it was religion.

[Michaela]

I mean, it kind of is.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. And so I don't feel like I'm.

[Jen]

Part of the club.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. I'M like, you're wearing an off the shoulder top.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Where's your garments?

[Avery Woods]

That's crazy. Yeah. Wait, do any of you guys wear garments?

[Michaela]

No. Well, Jen does.

[Jen]

I did.

[Macy]

I did for a long time.

[Michaela]

Pregnant. I would. I would never work garments even if I wasn't pregnant. I cannot imagine being pregnant and having to wear garments.

[Macy]

No. That's when I, like, stopped wearing mine. And I think it was, like, my last baby. I was like, I can't.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But also, I think it's just too.

[Macy]

Hard to put them back on.

[Jen]

But the reason behind wearing garments is, like, the intention, and I feel like you can still have the intention without having to wear them.

[Avery Woods]

Totally.

[Macy]

I told my parents I would tattoo the symbols on my body if that made it more special. So I was like, I don't feel any better wearing an extra piece of fabric under my clothes. To be honest, I'd rather tattoo it.

[Michaela]

Like, they're like, actually, you know what?

[Macy]

Show my devotion. I'll do that. Like, that'd be great.

[Jen]

Ring's good enough.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Sounds like I wear my CTR ring. I'm good.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, I literally. I literally wanted one in high school because I didn't have one. All my friends had C charrings.

[Macy]

I said, you're like, I don't know.

[Avery Woods]

What it is, but I want mine. I know. Yeah. I think I like what you said, though, about the intention of the garments, because I feel like that in general with religious people is quite prevalent where you can say you're a part of a certain organization, but it's about your actions and your beliefs and the type of person that you are. So I don't think it's reflective in your clothing.

[Jen]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Avery Woods]

So I love that.

[Jen]

And that's what I will teach my kids.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

There's obviously lots of drama happening in season two that happened in season one as well. But you have a new cast member.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

And she was supposed to be here. So I'm curious, does that have to do with tea, or was it really a schedule conflict?

[Michaela]

Oh, my God, there's some tea. Oh, there's so much. Well, tea with what? There's always tea with Miranda coming back in the group.

[Avery Woods]

That's what I meant. Yeah.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah. No, we're all. We're all good with Miranda. I mean, now.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

She was coming in. We weren't. Because, I mean, I think we all were thinking the same things with her coming in for, like, clout and money and this. And also, like, we had grown really close with Taylor.

[Avery Woods]

Yes.

[Michaela]

And so I'm like, you were also kind of shutting down these rumors that you weren't a part of this, and then now that the show is doing so well, she's coming back in.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I know that a couple of us were very vocal about that.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Myself included.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask, because obviously, I've been mutuals for. With pretty much all of mom talk for a long time, like, before the show came out. And so I just remember her being very vocal and, like, answering questions directly about not being a part of season one. That was, like, she was very adamant about it. I remember watching that, and I remember thinking in my head, even if I was approached to do something like that, I. I don't think at this time in my life I would ever agree to a reality show just because of maybe people's intentions or giving people the extra ability to nitpick about what I do or say or how I act. So I was like, I totally get why she would turn it down and why she wouldn't be a part of it.

[Michaela]

Oh, 100%. And, like, hearing her perspective on it too. But, like, she was going through a divorce or, like, all of that. Like, I get that she didn't want that aired, but also, there were so many different underlying factors. Like, Whitney had just left the group and was coming back for clout again, too. So then it was like, just multiple people coming in, and I was like, we have stayed here and put so much effort into this that it rubbed me the wrong way.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Macy]

I think that's why it bugged me, too, because I was like. Like, at least us two have been there since, like, 2022, the creation of the show. And, like, got the pilot sold. Right. We did all this work. Then you're just coming in now. That's successful. Because I'm like, everyone on us when the trailer came out. Totally. And, like, now you guys love us because it's successful. So I think that was part of it too, where it's like an ego thing being like, oh, so now you want to be friends?

[Avery Woods]

Now I want to buy benefits of what?

[Macy]

Yeah. So it was like. I mean, we're definitely a little salty in the beginning because you're like, okay. But I think Miranda, she's a very nice person in general. Like, you can't, like, really not like her. I feel like it would be hard not to.

[Michaela]

And like I said, she's. Yeah, she's taking a lot of steps with friendship, too.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And accountability, which is hard for.

[Jen]

She owns it too. She's like, yeah, I came to get that bag.

[Macy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Okay. So that was what I was gonna say was obviously she was very vocal about not being a part of it. And then obviously she went through a divorce, which I feel for her being a single mom. And yeah, it's so hard. But then the opportunity comes and it's kind of like, I get providing for your kids, but also, you know, but if I haven't seen season two, so, you know, if she's taking the steps and.

[Michaela]

Yeah, yeah. And I think a big part for me, which is what I was like so adamant about with Whitney, is outside of filming, you wouldn't be doing this. And Miranda was putting that effort in outside of filming. So where I was like, you actually are first. Yeah. What she was with certain people. But also like, I mean, I personally came very hard at her when she first came in, so I didn't blame her for like, hey, want to hang out? Like, I wouldn't blame you not texting me totally. But like with Whitney, I didn't see that progress outside of filming. And so I think that's where the, the contrast was.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. And as far as Whitney, where does everyone stand now?

[Jen]

It's a great question.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

You guys tell me.

[Jen]

Like, I feel like my relationship with her has been linear and just like it has been with a lot of other girls.

[Michaela]

With Whitney, I think it's one sided for everybody.

[Macy]

With Whitney, I don't. There's not too many people that are like very close with her.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like she's a bit isolated from the group, but not in the sense of being left out from anyone else. I just think it's really hard, especially when you're tied to somebody when it comes to production and you know, they're able to go off on their own and say things without you there.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. We all know my love for therapy and how important I believe it is for everyone. Whether you're going through a hard time or just your day to day life, it always helps me to talk to a third party that doesn't have a biased opinion that I can just pour my heart out to and get some advice. Mental health awareness is growing, but there's still so much progress to be made. Many people avoid seeking mental health support due to the fear of judgment or stigma. When people hesitate to get help, it doesn't just affect them, it impacts, impacts their families, workplaces, in the entire community. This Mental Health awareness Month, let's encourage everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma. The world is better when people are healthy and happy. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapists from their diverse network of more than 30, 000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. BetterHelp is fully online making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over 5 million people worldwide. Easily switch therapists this anytime at no cost. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com averywoods to get 10 off your first month. That's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com averywoods have you had that moment where your kid asks for help with homework and you're like I have not done this since middle school. Or maybe your child's ahead of the curve and getting bored in class. Whether your kid is struggling or soaring, IXL can make a real difference. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids really understand what they're learning. It covers math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K all the way through 12th grade. It's designed to be engaging, personalized and yes, actually fun with encouraging feedback that keeps kids motivated. Don't miss out. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. one in four students in the U.S. are learning with IXL. You guys know we recently moved states from Arizona to California at kind of an awkward time during the school year for the kiddos. So IXL has been what we have counted on to keep both of them on track. Ziggy's going to first grade and Stevie's going into preschool, so. So it's been an amazing way to keep them on track for the school year in the fall and they're able to learn while they have fun. Most of the time I don't even have to ask them to do ixl. They do it on their own because they have so much fun doing it they don't even realize they're learning. I'm so excited to keep them going through the summer. That way they are ahead of the game when school starts. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and Cheers with Avery Woods Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com cheers visit ixl.com cheers to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Make this your best season yet with the nutritious two minute meals from Factor. Eating well has never been this easy. Just heat up and enjoy giving you More time to do what you want. Being a busy working mom makes it so hard to prioritize making myself meals, so I'm always tempted to go out to eat or order in. And factor has been such an easy solution to that. Factor powers your day with satisfying breakfast on the go, lunches, premium dinners, and guilt free snacks and desserts. With 45 weekly menu options, you can pick gourmet meals that fit your goals. Choose from calorie smart, protein plus keto and more. It's easier to savor more this spring and factor meals pack in the flavor with none of the fuss. I feel like usually meals this easy are not filled with the protein that I need and I feel like I saw the biggest change in my body when I started increasing my protein and it keeps me full so much longer. So the protein plus option from factor is my absolute fave. Get started@Factor Meals.com Cheers 50 off and use code CHEERS50OFF to get 50% off off plus free shipping on your first box. That's code CHEERS50OFF@Factor Meals.com CHEERS50OFF for 50 off plus free shipping.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Going back to being Mormon because I feel like I again have so many people in my life that have been a part of the church, but what do you guys think is a misconception about the Mormon church that people might not realize?

[Macy]

I always used to say in the beginning when we first started the show, I'm like, we're not polygamous. Because I feel like we get that so much being like, so funny because you have multiple husbands or yours or husband have other wives. And so I feel like that was the biggest thing, at least when we first started the show and people heard Mormon. Like, some people were like, oh, they're polygamous.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so I feel like I always go back to that one because like, like people too. Like, yeah.

[Jen]

Then in this. And then the scandal came out and then everybody was really confused, like, oh.

[Michaela]

Wait, yeah, what are those Mormons doing?

[Jen]

Yeah, no, not.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I used to, when I worked as a nurse, I would. Because I did pediatrics and I would get kids that would come from families that were flds because we were the closest hospital. Yeah. And so it was crazy to be like, oh, yeah, my dad has 23 wives.

[Michaela]

It was like, I can't imagine.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[Macy]

You still see him in St. George a lot. I don't know if you know, but the in and out in St. George, you always see the FLDS.

[Avery Woods]

Really?

[Macy]

Because they have like the. Yeah, they have High neck. And then they had that certain hairstyle.

[Avery Woods]

They poof. Here. With the braid.

[Macy]

Yeah, with the braid. And they're always at the end. St. George. And I feel like I'm like. Like, I can't help but. But stare. Like, I don't know why. It's just an interesting.

[Jen]

Being Mormons, too.

[Michaela]

We're like, that.

[Jen]

We see them as, like, completely separate.

[Macy]

Oh, totally.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, yeah. I remember working with a lot of LDS nurses and those. They would come in and we would kind of talk about the differences because obviously I wasn't raised Mormon.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

But they weren't allowed to wear the hospital gowns. They had to. Their moms would, like, custom make them gowns that, like, opened at the back. Like a hospital gown.

[Michaela]

I had no idea.

[Avery Woods]

Wow. Yeah, it was very interesting.

[Jen]

Gosh. Garments are already hard enough. I cannot imag imagine.

[Avery Woods]

Absolutely not. So season two, by the way, literally obsessed with the trailer, and it did so well. Yeah, like, that's crazy.

[Macy]

It is crazy.

[Avery Woods]

Just the trailer alone on YouTube has, like, almost 7 million views. Yeah, I watched it this morning because I. I watched it when it first came out, and then I was like, I want to refresh and see it. And it had 6.8 million views on YouTube on the Hulu account.

[Jen]

I didn't even know.

[Michaela]

I haven't, like, scrolled on my phone and so.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. And imagine, like, that's just the trailer.

[Macy]

I feel like we're so desensitized to it now because I feel like we watched the trail. Like, did you guys think this trailer was good? Like, I like. I like. It was very good. I don't know.

[Jen]

We're like. It wasn't as.

[Avery Woods]

I think it's.

[Michaela]

Because that's what I'm saying. I think living season two and then watching the trailer, I was like, okay. Was crazy filming season two. So I thought it was gonna be. The trailer was gonna be crazier, but obviously I'm like, they're gonna get into, like, the nitty gritty of it in this season.

[Avery Woods]

That's true. Wait, so I was gonna ask you about the drama in season two so it. Than the trailer. Because the trailer. I was like, holy.

[Michaela]

No, like, it's.

[Macy]

I feel like it was. I'm like, where is this? Where is this?

[Avery Woods]

I feel like you came out a bad bitch. I feel like I saw you. No, really?

[Michaela]

Like, hell yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Because, I mean, you're like. You guys are all the sweetest, but I feel like you stood your ground and what you needed to.

[Michaela]

I think it was just like, Also just being in a different place in my life to where I could actually. I hated filming season one just because I was in a lot of physical pain where I was like, I could not get out of bed half the time to, like, drop my kids off at school, and then I had to go film a reality TV show. So season two, it was also just like the same, mainly toward. With like, again, the people coming back in their group. I was like, all right, it. It's hit a point. And I was pregnant and I didn't know what the.

[Avery Woods]

You're pregnant.

[Macy]

Didn't know it too. And I feel that affects things.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, yeah.

[Macy]

Well.

[Michaela]

And just like, I feel more comfortable speaking my mind. And it does get to a point where, like, you're seeing the same every day. You're like, all right, I'm done.

[Avery Woods]

Totally.

[Michaela]

And it hits a boiling point.

[Avery Woods]

Totally.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Dang. So we gotta buckle up, huh?

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

So speaking of, of your health issues that you've gone through in the last. How's it long it's been a year?

[Michaela]

At least three years. Three years? Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, my God.

[Michaela]

It was February of 2022 that it all started.

[Avery Woods]

And now you're pregnant. So how has that been affected by what was going on with your body before?

[Michaela]

I honestly feel like my skin's the best now than it's ever been. And I'm not on like any medication or anything. Where before I was like, doing immunosuppressants, I was doing like all the different, like, dupixent shots and everything. I'm still doing, like, cleanses as much as I can and like all the stuff. I take, like 13 pills every morning and like all the liquid herbs still. But, like, diet wise, I haven't restricted myself as much. And I think the more I pulled back was like the most healing my body's gotten.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I think just being pregnant, like, you hear like, pregnancy can heal autoimmune diseases while you're pregnant and different things like that. And so this is honestly the most healing I've gotten in three years. And it's like the least amount of effort I've put into healing.

[Avery Woods]

So, though. Yeah, you look really good.

[Michaela]

Thank you.

[Avery Woods]

How have you guys felt? Pregnant. Pregnant. By the way, are you sick at all or.

[Jen]

No, no, I was sick during the first.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, the first time.

[Jen]

I was going through hell the first time. Sorry. Yeah, I dealt with a lot of stuff.

[Avery Woods]

And now you're coughing. You've. Girl, you've been through it.

[Jen]

I've been through it, dude.

[Avery Woods]

Jen's like, she's the one in the baton.

[Jen]

Like, I need a break.

[Michaela]

No.

[Avery Woods]

What are you up to in life?

[Macy]

Life?

[Jen]

You know what? Just therapy.

[Michaela]

Lots of therapy.

[Jen]

That's really it.

[Avery Woods]

Is that solo or marriage therapy?

[Jen]

Both.

[Avery Woods]

Period.

[Jen]

A lot of both. Yeah. No, I mean, people think when I say therapy, they're like, oh, once a month. Like, no, I'm like six to eight hours a week.

[Avery Woods]

Like, it's good for you.

[Jen]

Been very intensive, very crazy since season one and season two.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, but.

[Jen]

But yeah, I'm finally seeing. Besides being physically ill, I'm finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, which is.

[Michaela]

I don't know how you do. Like, Taylor was doing that much therapy too. And I'm like, for me, I have like 45 minutes to like, maybe an hour and a half of therapy. And I'm like, drained.

[Avery Woods]

Like, the emotional drainage of, like, letting it all. Oh, yeah.

[Jen]

Well, that's why my job took her back burner. Everybody's like, where have you been? I'm like, at therapy.

[Avery Woods]

That's.

[Macy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Well, you went through such a public, you know, not scandal, but just you went through so much scrutiny when it comes to your marriage. And that's really hard because obviously when you're married, your partner is your number one. And then when people come for them, you know, like me, if anyone comes for my husband or questions in him, I'm like, oh, hell no. You know, like, that's my immediate no. So I'm trying to think of timeline because obviously the show ended, it blew up. It was huge at the end. You know, you're trying to figure out what's going on with your marriage and your husband going to medical school and possibly moving. And then what felt like not shortly after, but it was. Cause it was pre filmed. You announced you were pregnant.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

And a lot of people had a lot of opinions about that, but obviously there was a time gap in between. So were you guys, like, actively working on your marriage, going to therapy before you got pregnant?

[Jen]

Oh, yeah. So season. We filmed season one, and then that's like, after Vegas, that's when I realized, oh, like, we got stuff to work on. Yeah, we need help. And like, there's things I didn't realize that was happening in our relationship. And because of Vegas, that kind of exposed everything.

[Michaela]

And we jumped into filming so quickly after.

[Avery Woods]

After all of that.

[Jen]

Yeah. And then I isolated myself from the whole group because I was like, I just need to focus on this. We were still planning on moving to Arizona for med school. No, originally New York So we were all over the place. There's a lot happening. There's a lot of changes happening. And I just. I didn't even know if I was gonna do season two. But, yeah, we ended up moving to Arizona, and the show came out the first week of medical school. So the show came out, and I was basically. I told him, like, hey, I'm going back to film season two. Like, this is. Like, this is what I want to do. And, yeah, season one was obviously so hard on our marriage, was hard on Zach, and it was so hard for Zach during med school to deal with, like, the whole world attacking us that he ultimately was like, I need to take a step back and put my marriage first. So we ended up moving back to Utah, filming that, and that was in the midst of all the chaos. Like, season one came out. We immediately started filming season two. What you see in season two is, like, literally the reality of what was actually happening. And I was. That time I was hurting really bad and had a lot of anger because I had been holding in so much stuff for so many years. And at that point, that's when he started stepping up. So there was a lot of just, like, trying to navigate. And then we found out I was pregnant. And then obviously, that didn't help out initially. I think at first we were, like, quite overwhelmed. Yes, we were like, this is the last thing we need right now. But actually, if it wasn't for finding out that I was pregnant, and a lot of people say, oh, it's just a band aid baby. That's, like, a thing people keep saying. But if it wasn't for finding out, if it wasn't for this baby, I don't think I would have prioritized my mental health and our marriage as much as I did, because at that point, I was like, it's not just about me. It's about this baby.

[Avery Woods]

Sure.

[Jen]

Yeah. And at that point, I hadn't given my full effort in our marriage either. And so, like, I just went into therapy and basically said, like, I, you know, like, I want to do what's best for me and for my kids and for us. And until I put in my full effort, I can't walk away. And so that kind of just shifted everything. We were both fighting so hard. And, yeah, honestly, I'm so grateful for it, because whether people believe it or not, like, we really have never been, like, happier than right now. But it took a lot of looking in the mirror, taking accountability on both ends. I honestly thought I was perfect after season one. I was like, you're the one with the issues. I am perfect. Look at me. I'm just kidding. No, I literally was just pointing fingers at him because I was like, it was very clear, but I didn't realize also how much work I need to put into, so.

[Michaela]

So.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Well, I'm happy for you. And I'm thinking that you're happy. Is he still in med school?

[Jen]

No.

[Avery Woods]

So he left med school.

[Jen]

He did a leave. Year of absence.

[Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Jen]

I know There's a rumor that people are spreading saying he got kicked out.

[Avery Woods]

I didn't hear that. I don't scroll.

[Michaela]

Avery started that rumor.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, my God.

[Jen]

Was it you?

[Michaela]

She's like, can I hear that next?

[Avery Woods]

Actually, I actually was literally thinking my head the entire time. I had no idea you were in Arizona the entire time. I had no idea.

[Jen]

Yeah, a lot of people didn't. No.

[Avery Woods]

Honestly. For the best, though. People are weird.

[Michaela]

No, I know people are weird.

[Jen]

I would go to the grocery store and people are like, are you visiting where? I was in Vistania.

[Macy]

Like, and that's so funny.

[Jen]

That's like the thick of nowhere in Arizona. But he's like, do you live here, dude?

[Avery Woods]

That's how we were when we came back to California because we didn't announce it for so long. And I was in Trader Joe's and the employee was like, oh, my God, I love you. I said, oh, I love you too. She goes, what. What are you doing here? And I was like, grocery shopping.

[Macy]

She's like, oh.

[Avery Woods]

I was like, I love you right there.

[Michaela]

She's like, oh, period.

[Avery Woods]

It's better, though. People are weird.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Avery Woods]

So he's taking a year leave of Absen.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Jen]

So technically he could go back if he wanted to. At this point, he. His priority is our marriage and supporting me in my career. So that's kind of where we're at.

[Avery Woods]

You know what period. I know. I saw he was. Or the dads or something were trying to make TikTok. So are they trying to be social media people now?

[Jen]

They're trying to take over Mountain Talk.

[Avery Woods]

No, literally. They're like, who could get more followers?

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I have to like, literally hold Jace at gunpoint to be in any tiktoks.

[Macy]

Jacob to go. I was like, you need to go make some money.

[Avery Woods]

I'm just. You know what?

[Macy]

Preach, like at the bag.

[Avery Woods]

Okay. Macy, what's going on with you? You have a book coming out.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Avery Woods]

Which I'm so excited to read.

[Macy]

Yeah, I'm so excited. So I've been working on that for like a Long time now. Have a memoir coming out in October.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. You've been through it.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

And, like, I remember when we first met, sitting at dinner, hearing your story. I was like, you've gone through more in your very short years of life than people have ever experienced in a life.

[Michaela]

You should be really proud, nonchalant about it.

[Avery Woods]

No, ser. It's crazy. And, like, cope with humor. Like me. Like, you. If people heard us talk, they'd be like, they need major mental.

[Macy]

Oh, no. I do it all the time.

[Avery Woods]

But that's just how you cope sometimes.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah. It happens all the time. Where I forgot someone was like, oh, Macy has two baby daddies.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah.

[Macy]

I was like, she's dead, so I guess it doesn't. I was like, wait.

[Michaela]

Made me look like a. I was like, cool.

[Macy]

Yeah. I need to maybe not say it that way, but I think it's just, like, I'm so desensitized now. And, like, obviously it's like, it's an emotional topic, and I think you'll see it. Season two, it is brought up again. But again, it's like, I am. I cope with humor. Like, everything for me is, like, I have very dark humor, and I think it's because of all my trauma. And obviously Michaela has trauma, too. So I have very dark.

[Michaela]

My family grew up with dark humor, too. So I'm like, with you, it doesn't phase me, and I'm used to it.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I'm also. I think that's what's so good about your story, though, is, like, it does get down to. And, like, everyone's story. Yes, we cope with humor, but, like, in the show, like, when with your story, you get to see the other side of it, where you're, like, actually processing and healing it.

[Macy]

Yeah. Which is hard to show because I am not. I hate, like, showing emotion. Like, so she. Being vulnerable. Like, I'm okay being vulnerable, but, like, I do not like crying. Like, it is not my thing. I think growing up, no one really cried in my family. So I think, too, like, filming certain things this season, I was like, oh, I know I'm gonna cry, and I don't want to cry. So, like, I've been, like, learning how to be, like, vulnerable, like, especially, like, being okay on camera, like, crying and stuff, and being, like, it's okay to cry. Like, because, again, I feel like growing up, it's, like, a weakness. And so I feel like I've, like, learned through, like, trials and different things, like, how to express vulnerability. And I think, too Like, I'm. This book for me has been writing itself for the last 10 years. It's been a goal of mine for like 10 years. So it's like a huge pinch me moment when I got a book deal because I was like, holy. Like, this is like what I've wanted for the last 10 years.

[Avery Woods]

It's amazing.

[Macy]

So, yeah, I've been doing that and then obviously like working on my business baby mama and getting ready to launch some new products that. And then we did IVF death for this baby. So did that while filming. And so that was hard. I was actually. I hid it from all the girls. I don't know how much they'll show on season two because you just never know it's cut. But I would be like on girls trips and I would. They would like hire a nurse to come give me like my shots, like in the bathroom of like the restaurant we're on.

[Michaela]

And they're not like nice little tiny shots.

[Avery Woods]

They're like, oh, they're the huge ones.

[Macy]

They're the 18 huge PIO shots. Man.

[Avery Woods]

They're brutal because they're thick.

[Macy]

So thick. It's like a hole puncher.

[Avery Woods]

Okay, so speaking of being vulnerable and showing emotion on camera, what do you guys kind of. How do you decide what to show, what not to show? Because like you said you're being filmed all the time. So how do you like kind of edit yourself in the moment? Because like, you guys don't have say of what's cut. Right. No.

[Jen]

Issue is we don't edit ourselves. We, at least for me, I just kind of like show everything.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Which I'm working on not sharing as much in therapy.

[Avery Woods]

That's great for you.

[Jen]

I love that I share too much.

[Michaela]

Yeah, no, we're definitely. I'm an oversharer because again, like, I'm similar with you or my family didn't grow up sharing emotions. You went to my mom with like crying because you fell and hurt your knee. She's like, get over it.

[Avery Woods]

Go away. Yeah.

[Michaela]

Annoying. So I feel like that wasn't like a comfortable thing showing emotion. And so when I am in therapy and I'm working through these things, I almost over share because I don't have that boundary of like, what's appropriate. And then I look back and I'm like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that. Or like, I don't want to watch that back. That's going to be really triggering and hard.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I think overall, big picture, I think it's gonna be good.

[Macy]

Yeah. And I feel like we're all very tmi. Like, we talk about, like, sex, like, all that stuff constantly. And they're like, are you guys okay? And I'm like, that's my topic.

[Jen]

So, I mean, which is why we love Avery, too.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, yeah, I know. Well, that's my issue, too, is I also grew up that way, and then David and I were both first responders, so we have always done dealt with everything with dark humor. Because if not, you're unwell.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Avery Woods]

But not everyone feels that way. And so, you know, sometimes I look back on things and I'm like, oh, yeah, people probably don't understand where I'm coming from or why I said it like that.

[Michaela]

But, yeah, we are like, if you don't laugh, you cry.

[Macy]

No.

[Michaela]

And we don't like to cry.

[Macy]

Exactly.

[Avery Woods]

100. So, obviously there's a certain, you know, standard or maybe misconception when it comes to the Mormon Church with males being the breadwinner.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Avery Woods]

So, Jen, for you, were you guys raised that way? So is it. Is it a. Is it a taboo thing, what you're doing, how your husband's kind of taking a pause from med school and you're able to focus on your career?

[Jen]

I wouldn't say it was a taboo thing in my family, but it was definitely, like, more taboo. When it came to Zach's family, he was just shown his whole life. His dad was a doctor, and his mom also worked, actually, but was mainly a stay at home mom. But what he saw was, like, the value that the man brings in the house is through providing, and the woman's role is to nurture. And so I think going into our marriage, he expected that from me. When we had committed to med school, it was never, like, my plan to start doing, influencing, or working, but it naturally just happened because I knew I was gonna have to somewhat take on that role of providing because I didn't want to go through, like, debt and whatnot.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And so naturally, through our marriage, it kind of. I just naturally took that role. And it was really hard for him at first because he didn't know how to navigate it. And he also felt like, in a lot of ways, like, it brought out a lot of insecurities because he's like, wait, wait, what value do I bring if I'm not providing? And that's something we've definitely had to navigate. But now he's, like, stoked about it. Now he, like, sees the bright side of it, like, oh, wow. Like. Like, I can choose whether I want to Go to med school or not? Like, I don't have to go to med school.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And I can support my wife.

[Avery Woods]

And so yeah, my, my husband's dad was a pastor. Not, they weren't obviously Mormon, but they were very like strict non denominational Christian. They had arranged marriages. Like they, their first kiss was on the altar. They recorded. Yeah. Like it was crazy. So anyways, he just grew up very different. And so when we decided, I was like, you are way too at risk to be a police officer anymore. Especially because people were connecting him to me and he automatically has a target on his back being a cop. And I was just kind of like, you need to be home. Especially because we were launching a business, I needed help and I was like, we can either hire someone to raise our kids full time or we can be home and our kids can be with both their parents while they're still little. And so that was a route we took. But the first few months were very difficult for him because he was also raised like a male is a provider. The woman stays at home. Like, he has always been so supportive, but I think just for him he was like, I feel like I'm not providing. I don't feel comfortable in this role yet because I don't feel like I'm doing my duty as a husband. And I feel like even if you're not a part of that, even if you don't believe that anymore when you're raised that way, it's like ingrained in you. Oh, you know, absolutely.

[Michaela]

It's just interesting because I feel like all guys feel that he, he did grow up with that with his parents. I didn't either because my mom was a stay. I mean, my parents got divorced when I was like nine. And so then she was single, living in Utah and she was the one working. So I didn't really get to see that dynamic as much either. But yeah, he grew up with that. But I feel like I always say he was meant to be a stay at home dad because he grew up with so many effing siblings that he just has way more patience than I did.

[Avery Woods]

So he's stay at home now.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Macy, what about your husband?

[Macy]

He's a stay at home.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, period. Look at us.

[Michaela]

Look at us.

[Macy]

Walmart plus.

[Avery Woods]

It's Walmart.

[Macy]

Plus free delivery, which saves members time. Plus money. Money, Yep. Plus an included Paramount. Plus subscription to Stream movies, shows, sports and that can't miss documentary. Plus Burger King savings. That's right. Members get 25 off Burger King digital orders every day of the week Walmart+ it's Walmart+ become a [e-mail] 35 order minimum Paramount+ essential plan only. Separate registration required. Valid and participating USBKs in the BK app or bk.com for members only. 25 off one time for calendar day terms apply. See Walmart+ terms and conditions.

[Jen]

Ever since switching to T Mobile, something.

[Avery Woods]

Weird has been happening. I get to cut lines.

[Michaela]

Oh, right this way.

[Avery Woods]

Who me? I can stream shows at 30,000ft and.

[Jen]

I was able to buy reserve tickets.

[Avery Woods]

For my favorite band. It's not just you. With T Mobile everyone can get VIP status. That means access to exclusive events and experiences just for being a customer at t mobile. VIP means y o u check out the VIP treatment@t mobile.com benefits. Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality, organic and sustainable brands all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping, you get top.

[Michaela]

Trusted groceries at your door and you.

[Avery Woods]

Can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on.

[Michaela]

Start [e-mail] podcast for 30 off your.

[Avery Woods]

First order and a free gift. So what's the deal with you and Dakota now, Macy?

[Macy]

Oh God.

[Avery Woods]

Because you're in a relationship since season one. Now they're not together, which I'm sure we'll learn more about. But like a lot's happened since the first season and you were very outspoken, which honestly, bravo.

[Macy]

Yeah, I have like a.

[Avery Woods]

You don't hold your tongue.

[Macy]

I have a thing with toxic men. The girls know that and they call me the dick hater in the group. But like, like, I can't help myself.

[Avery Woods]

No one likes dicks and dicks don't even look cool. Like they're not even pretty to look at.

[Jen]

That's the best thing I've ever heard.

[Macy]

Yeah, I know. And I feel like I. Yeah, I mean the girls know I have a hard time with him now for sure because I mean he's always just somehow around and I'm like, what are you doing here? Like, you're a baby daddy. Like, what are you doing, like around us at all times? Like, and it's hard because he is very nice to me in person. Stuff. Like, in person we're very nice to each other, but I'm like, I know who you are behind the scenes and I always Say he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. And I stand by that. That. And I think it's. I think he does trigger me, though, because he reminds me a lot of my abusive ex boyfriend. There's a lot of tendencies that I, like, you probably won't even see on the show because it's like they obviously, there's things in their relationship they want to that are private. And I, like, obviously will always respect that. But people probably won't understand why I feel so passionate the way I am. It's because I know everything that happens behind the scenes, closed doors that you're not going to see on the show. And so I feel like you'll see me probably in season two, probably, if there's a season three, you'll see me probably the same energy because I'm like, I know. Know what's going on. And so, yeah, it's hard to sit back and watch and watch your friends in pain as well and be like, oh, yeah, like, come back in. Like, let's all be friends. I'm like, no, absolutely not.

[Avery Woods]

Of course. And it's hard when you have kids with them, too, because you're like, yeah, I just want you to be.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

You know, with my kids and as a family. But yeah, obviously, I think Taylor.

[Michaela]

Taylor sees that. Like, she's starting to see a lot more of what we've been telling her. But I feel like, again, the one thing that's hard is her kid, because she's like, again, I'm not saying bye to Dakota. I'm saying bye to Dakota and my kid half the time. And that's the hardest thing being. Which I totally understand. But, yeah, I think everyone thinks she should leave him.

[Macy]

And again, I will say, I always tell Ted, I'm like, I wish him the best. I don't think he's a bad person. I think you guys together are bad and toxic. But I'm like, I really do wish him the best. Hope you can have a great life, move on with someone else. But it's not going to be you because it's just never going to work. Like, even if you try.

[Michaela]

It's just they both have so much healing individuals that they can't do together.

[Avery Woods]

Sure. So obviously, like I said, you guys gained a cast member, which is Miranda. But I think there's one more person that is kind of involved, and I just want to know why they won't join. Who?

[Michaela]

Is it Camille?

[Avery Woods]

Yep.

[Macy]

Yeah. I mean, I think, I swear she made a video the other day being like, I'm too boring for the show. And I think that she wants to keep her life, like, super, super private and would never probably share open up on reality TV.

[Avery Woods]

Got it.

[Macy]

@ least that was my perspective. Like watching her video. She posted about it.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

So you don't think it has anything to do with the whole swinging thing?

[Jen]

No.

[Avery Woods]

Know. No.

[Macy]

From what we know, she wasn't involved in it.

[Avery Woods]

Oh.

[Michaela]

And I think. I don't know. I've heard a lot about, like, her husband's family and how they don't. Like just image wise.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so like an image thing.

[Avery Woods]

Got it.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Are they still active in the church?

[Michaela]

I think so. Yeah.

[Macy]

Really?

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Okay.

[Avery Woods]

Who in the mob talk group, by the way on this, on season two, is an Is active in the LDS church.

[Michaela]

Macy. Whit. No.

[Macy]

Oh, Whitney.

[Michaela]

Whitney. Demi.

[Macy]

Demi.

[Michaela]

I guess I never know to me, really. I can't.

[Macy]

That's the thing. It's confusing because it's like it changes.

[Avery Woods]

You would never think it changes.

[Macy]

I feel like. And it's. Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm not gonna judge anyone off spirituality. I am not one to judge. I. It's just interesting because people are like, oh, I'm so active. And then like, who knows what they're doing? I'm like, okay, I. I don't.

[Avery Woods]

You know what they're doing. I can tell right now, you know.

[Michaela]

What they're doing behind closed doors. But again, who will be to judge?

[Macy]

I'm not one to judge. I'm like, you can whatever you want to be. That's great for you.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. How come they'll say say freaking instead of. But they'll say ass. Like, I don't know, like just say ass.

[Macy]

I don't know.

[Avery Woods]

Freaking ass. What is that?

[Michaela]

That's a huge Mormon thing. Freaking. Dang it. Flipping. Basically any loophole they can get around.

[Avery Woods]

That's so funny.

[Macy]

And I feel like the F word. I feel like in general for Mormons is like a bigger. It's like one of the big ones.

[Jen]

Definitely a big word.

[Macy]

So I think that's why, like, people probably try to.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah. Like, my mom had a sailor mouth growing up, but it was the F word. She only said when she was like, pissed.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Michaela]

Like, oh, she's mad.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

So mad.

[Michaela]

She was always mad. But I'm like, she was pissed if she's saying the F word.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. Were you guys surprised that Whitney came on season two?

[Macy]

No.

[Avery Woods]

Do you think because the drama that she brings is controversial.

[Macy]

I think she still has.

[Michaela]

That's not why I Don't think that's why she came back. She definitely came back for a redemption.

[Jen]

You think she's reactive and she. She makes decision based off of how.

[Macy]

She currently feels in that moment. Yeah. And I think also because the show did so well, it's like, why was she not, you know.

[Avery Woods]

Well, she wants to act right or something.

[Michaela]

Yeah, she wants to be an actress this month.

[Jen]

Oh, shady.

[Avery Woods]

See. Okay, so what's the. What's the soda dynamic in Utah? Because people really want to know.

[Macy]

Really?

[Michaela]

Like I want to know the Blue Lagoon.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, yeah.

[Michaela]

I haven't tried it yet.

[Avery Woods]

That something else is coming out that's even better. Really? Yeah. A Blue Lagoon is. You guys know Black Rock Coffee?

[Michaela]

No. Well, I do know, but I haven't bet. Is it an Arizona thing?

[Avery Woods]

Okay. Yes, but they're going to Utah. They just really. We just got a couple locations that's coming in Utah. Smart. Yeah, I told him. I was like, come to California, cuz you only have some in San Diego. Yeah, but I'm really sensitive to dairy. And like, if I have more than one cup of coffee a day, I'll be living on the toilet. That's just the way for me.

[Jen]

Tmi.

[Avery Woods]

We don't do TMI here.

[Michaela]

Not with me.

[Macy]

And yeah, we talk about each other.

[Avery Woods]

You send each other pictures of it.

[Macy]

She used to send me her parasite.

[Michaela]

I did coffee enemas every day for like a couple months.

[Avery Woods]

You had a parasite?

[Michaela]

Not par.

[Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Macy]

You had things.

[Michaela]

I'm like, how did I do that?

[Avery Woods]

I had.

[Michaela]

I'll like, I'll show you after. I have so many pictures.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, I'm a nurse girl. I don't care.

[Michaela]

Oh my gosh. Literally, things this long coming out of me. I'm not even exaggerating. Like, I have pictures of all of them when I was doing my parasite cleanses. I didn't have parasites though, because I tested did for parasites, but it was just all the infect. I had like a ton of gut infections and yeast and everything. Like I was like messed up. But yeah, it was like every day I had those things coming out of me. Yeah, I have no TMI with it though. Like, I'll go to the husband's. And I was like, look at this.

[Macy]

Yeah, I showed my husband. I'm like, look what came out of Michaela.

[Avery Woods]

That's so funny. No, a Blue Lagoon. So anyways, I can't drink that much coffee. Also, I've got problems. So Blackrock makes an in home fuel, which kind of isn't a can. Almost like A Red Bull, but it tastes way better to me. And then they have every syrup you can think of that you can mix in with it. The Blue Lagoon specifically is the fuel with kiwi and blue raspberry syrup. And it's so good.

[Michaela]

Like, you're basically like a Utah girl. Like, our. Our diet sodas. And, like, except I'm in, like, a.

[Avery Woods]

String bikini with my tits hanging out all the time.

[Michaela]

I love that. I would have that.

[Jen]

We need to bring more. I had good boobs for a little.

[Michaela]

Bit, and then I had to take him out.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. You did take out your implants, huh? Do you feel like it helped taking them out?

[Michaela]

It definitely helped.

[Avery Woods]

Really?

[Michaela]

But also, like, within two weeks of getting them in, it was my right one was up to here. It already had a capsule of, like, all that bacteria that I had in my body went straight to my implant. And I got infections.

[Avery Woods]

I didn't know that.

[Michaela]

And I had them in for, like, 10 months.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And they dropped a tiny bit, but it was always hard. Like, I couldn't move it. I loved moving my implants. It was like, my favorite thing.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, I do that all the time. I'll do this, and I'll do this. And then they go out to my office. Oh, yeah. Like, stop moving your implants. It's weird.

[Michaela]

Oh, my God. No, it's. It's weird. It's like a foreign thing in your body. But no, that was, like, the first thing I ever did to start my healing was getting my implants out. And then I got my root canal out. Then I got all my mercury fillings out. So it was like, one by one. So it was a lot.

[Avery Woods]

But damn, we keep getting sidetracked.

[Michaela]

You went anyway, the soda.

[Macy]

We love soda.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah.

[Jen]

Soda and tits and.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, yeah. Soda and tits and the F word. No, because people just. Just when they think about Utah, they think about, like, swig and. What's the other one out there?

[Michaela]

There's like, 13.

[Macy]

There's fizz, fizz, Swig, Pop, and Dot. I'm like, there's so many.

[Avery Woods]

Is that because it's obviously so highly Mormon populated and you guys aren't supposed to be drinking coffee. And so people go to soda.

[Macy]

Yeah. Like, the soda shops have lines at, like, 8am Like, a coffee shop.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, See that?

[Macy]

It's bizarre.

[Avery Woods]

Couldn't catch me doing that.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Okay. I want to know all of your soda orders. Starters.

[Macy]

Mine's so simple. Mine's just a Diet Coke with fresh lemon and lime, which is good.

[Michaela]

It's good.

[Macy]

It is so good.

[Avery Woods]

Okay, that sounds good.

[Michaela]

Mine changes, which I haven't had soda a long time. I cut out soda for like a year or more. But it changes because Swig also has the refreshers where you can do sparkling water and you're like, I'm healthier because it's a sparkling water with. I'm healthy.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Macy]

I don't die.

[Michaela]

I don't like cream in it because I like when I get soda, I want it to. To be crispy. Like if I want an Italian soda, then I'll get that. But I feel like if I want a soda and I want it to be crisp, I'll just do like a diet Coke with sugar free coconut and fresh lime.

[Avery Woods]

Yum.

[Michaela]

Or the fight. I love the fighter with sparkling water. I've been doing the unbreakable with sparkling water. Strawberry cream water. No strawberries. Light cream. Yeah, Those are the go to.

[Avery Woods]

All right.

[Michaela]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

Mine changes too. Right now it's Diet Dr. Pepper with peach cream, half and half.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, that sounds so good.

[Michaela]

Not coconut.

[Avery Woods]

Dr. Pepper is my favorite diet soda. Oh, I.

[Jen]

Yes. No, it's my favorite too. I love it.

[Avery Woods]

Okay, so what's everyone's plan? What's coming up for you guys? What do you hope comes out of this? Being on this show, exposing your lives besides having children, more children.

[Macy]

Want the money?

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I'm like, soon.

[Avery Woods]

Why is it worth exposing your life if you're not going to get rich from it? You know what I'm saying?

[Jen]

Especially if you're the provider. I mean, you gotta. Yeah.

[Avery Woods]

Provide for those families.

[Jen]

Gotta feed her children.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Macy]

I guess for me, my goal is to be on the New York Times bestsellers list. So, I mean, that is my, like, that's what I'm done for in my head. I'm manifesting it on the vision board.

[Avery Woods]

Can't wait to read it. Excited.

[Michaela]

Yay. I know. Well, we're gonna have babies and babies. Me and Jen are doing a natural birth this time.

[Avery Woods]

Holy.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Have you seen them? Have you seen natural birth?

[Avery Woods]

Oh, so many of that. And one of my really close friends gave birth completely natural in her house. I remember getting the video from her husband at like 2 in the morning. And it was the most incredible thing I've ever seen.

[Michaela]

I just think, I think people get so empowered doing it, which I love. But like, all three of my kids have been epidurals.

[Avery Woods]

Okay.

[Michaela]

Which I loved the first two, hated the third one. And that's why I was like, never again.

[Avery Woods]

Why?

[Michaela]

Oh, my gosh. Tommy's was Horrible.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, no.

[Michaela]

Because they poked it in. He was like an idiot. I swear. He was, like, 13 years old.

[Jen]

Old.

[Michaela]

All my other ones were, like, 80 years old. And I was like, oh, he knows what he's like. He knows his in and out. And then I looked up. They retired the. Because he did two of mine. Anesthesiology. He retired probably. He probably died. Honestly, he was so old. I'm not kidding. I was like, oh, no. He's done a million epidural.

[Avery Woods]

And most dogs I had done love what they do will literally work until they die.

[Michaela]

Incredible. And then Tommy's. I swear he was, like, 13 years old, came in, and he was, like, going back there for, like, 10 minutes. I was like, okay, something's going on. And I was already numb. And then he's like, oh, by the way, like, you're probably gonna have a really bad migraine. And I was like, why? Because he poked it in too far the whole. The first time. Gave me basically a spinal tap and then went up a vertebrae. Was like, oh, that's the spot. Goes back down, pokes it in, like, in the right spot. And he told me I had an underdeveloped spine. I was like, okay, well, I've had three epidurals. I'm like, your brain is underdeveloped. And then he. It was the. Because the experience after was so traumatizing. Like, I couldn't sit up in bed. I had the worst. It wasn't even the headaches. It was the back, like, seizes and spasms I was having. I had to have my sister bring me a heating pad. I couldn't sit up. I, like, cried the whole time because I couldn't even, like, sit up in the hospital, hold Tommy or nurse her.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then when I got home, I. Or I did the blood patch. You know what the blood patch is? So I did that. So it's basically four epidurals in my back. And then got home. Blood patch didn't even work. So then I couldn't sit up again to nurse her at home. Home. I got mastitis because I was trying to, like, lay down and, like, massage out my stuff and feed her. Laying down.

[Avery Woods]

So you said natural, this.

[Michaela]

Oh, yeah. I was like, well, and with my health stuff, I was like, yeah, I don't want to put anything else in me.

[Macy]

Yeah. I'm trying to convince her to let me film it because, like, there's a scene with, like, Hulu where, like, you can't. They can't film the birth or something.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Macy]

There's like these legal reasons. And so I was like, I'll film it.

[Avery Woods]

Oh, giving birth while you're filming.

[Michaela]

But they had like Whitney and Taylor had epidurals and so they kind of set up the tripods and license the footage. But with like natural birth, I'm like, there's no way in hell they're going to set up a tripod. And that's where I'm going to be. Like, I feel like I'm going to be moving around everywhere and also it's going to be hideous for me and.

[Macy]

Pay me for the great. I used to film births actually like videography. But she's like, I don't want you in there. You're just say, I'm gross.

[Michaela]

Macy, like almost passes out getting an iv. I was like, how are you going to watch me do natural birth?

[Macy]

I filmed a natural birth too. And I've told her this. I'm like, I am so professional. You won't even know.

[Michaela]

I. I could just see Macy making it about herself and being like, ew, ew, gross.

[Avery Woods]

I'm like, get out of batters.

[Macy]

I would be silent unless it's needed.

[Michaela]

Like, no, I would let you catch the baby.

[Avery Woods]

I'm like, jace, get out of the way.

[Michaela]

Macy, pull this baby out of hank back.

[Macy]

I might just pass out after, but it's fine.

[Avery Woods]

So what was your decision, Jen? How come you were doing natural?

[Jen]

Because with my first I got induced, so I experienced that and got the epidural. And then with my second, I was this close to being natural. But like when you're dilated at 8, you're just like, just stick it in me. Like I'm done. And I, I have pretty quick bursts so I just thought, why not just try it this time?

[Avery Woods]

Yeah. And I was gonna say because you guys aren't first time moms. Your body, they always say like your body knows what to do and so it's more likely to progress. I didn't have that option. My body just did not progress. But I feel like because you guys have, it'll be smooth.

[Michaela]

Yeah. And I've heard once you get to eight, like when you're that close, it's like eight to 10 and you find a baby's out. It's prob five minutes.

[Avery Woods]

You're like in hell. Oh yeah.

[Michaela]

Which I don't know. I'm a baby. Yeah. So I'm like, if I knew I was getting the epidural the second I was at a four and I got in the hospital, I was like, pump me Up. But like now I'm like, I just. It's. I know it's a mind over matter, but that epidural. Is someone there. I know. I need someone there to really be like, you can do it.

[Macy]

That'll be me.

[Michaela]

I hope so. I just see us getting annoyed with each other.

[Macy]

I'm like, I would be so good. I was like, I should be a doula. Like, I should try to train to do that for you.

[Avery Woods]

I have confidence in her.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I just feel like, because I. We get annoyed with each other already because we're around each other and we get bird. I know, but we get in petty fights and I'm really mean when I.

[Macy]

Like, really mean, like, pulls my extensions.

[Michaela]

I'm not. No, truly.

[Avery Woods]

I'm just.

[Michaela]

I'm like, jesse can get your move up next week. You'll be okay.

[Avery Woods]

I know. I'm like, I kind of want to call her because I got extensions in for one photo shoot and that we're just clipping. And I'm kind of like, I saw that like last week. I know. I actually brought a blonde wig that I'm going to wear for us to make content after this.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Avery Woods]

It look like a Mormon Jesse.

[Michaela]

Jesse will hook you up.

[Avery Woods]

Okay. Period. Well, thank you guys so much for being here. I love you all so much. I want nothing but success and the most love giving your way. Cuz I know it's really hard when people judge you online, as I know very well. But you guys have it on a different level being on tv. So I wish you nothing but the best and I can't wait to cheer you on. I can't wait to order your. Order your book.

[Macy]

Thank you.

[Avery Woods]

And watch season two. When does season two come out?

[Michaela]

May.

[Macy]

Next week.

[Michaela]

Next week. How many days is that?

[Macy]

Seven.

[Michaela]

Seven days.

[Avery Woods]

So everyone go to Countdown and where can everyone find you guys on socials?

[Jen]

TikTok.

[Michaela]

What is that? Yeah, Insta. I think it's different.

[Avery Woods]

Yeah, you're Jen Affleck.

[Jen]

At Jennifer L. Affleck.

[Avery Woods]

There we go.

[Michaela]

That's funny. I don't know what I am. I think on TikTok it's just Michaela Matthews views. And then on Instagram, it's Michaela.

[Avery Woods]

I'm like, yeah, you guys can Google it.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I don't know.

[Jen]

Just Google. We're Mormon swingers. I'm just kidding.

[Avery Woods]

Here come the rumors.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

No.

[Avery Woods]

Cheers, guys.

[Macy]

Cheers. Cheers. Pacifico is a Mexican logger brood to be discovered.

[Avery Woods]

It's like fresh tracks on a powder day. Like that uncharted trail a stone's throw away like the perfect wave on a sunny day Pacifico Find your own way.

[Macy]

21 + drink responsibly imported by Crown.

[Avery Woods]

Import, Chicago, Illinois Walmart + it's Walmart.

[Macy]

+ free delivery, which saves members time + money yep + an included Paramount+ subscription to stream movies, shows, sports and that can't miss documentary + Burger King savings that's right. Members get 25% off Burger King digital orders every day of the week. Week Walmart plus it's Walmart plus become a member at walmartplus.com $35 order minimum Fairmont plus essential plan only separate registration required. Valid and participating USBKs in the BK app or bk.com for members only 25% off one time per calendar day. Terms apply. See Walmart plus terms and conditions.

[Jen]

Ever since switching to T Mobile, something.

[Avery Woods]

Weird has been happening. I get to cut lines. Oh, right this way. Who me? I can stream shows at 30,000ft and.

[Jen]

I was able to buy reserve tickets.

[Avery Woods]

For my favorite band. It's not just you. With T Mobile, everyone can get VIP status. That means access to exclusive events and experiences just for being a customer. At T Mobile, VIP means y o u check out the VIP treatment@t mobile.com benefits.