Does anybody really understand China? Could America pursue an abundance agenda without the threat of the PRC? Can podcasters change the world?

To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, who need no introduction, as well as Dan Wang, who has written beautiful annual letters and is back in the US as a research fellow at Kotkin’s Hoover History Lab. He has an excellent book called Breakneck coming out this August, but we’re saving that show for a little later this year.

Today, our conversation covers…

The use of China as a rhetorical device in US domestic discourse,
Oversimplified aspects of Chinese development, and why the bipartisan consensus surrounding Beijing might fail to produce a coherent strategy,
The abundance agenda and technocratic vs prophetic strategies for policy change,
How to conceptualize political actors complexly, including unions, corporations, and environmental groups,
The value of podcasting and strategies for positively impacting the modern media environment.

Outtro Music: Recomposed by Max Richter, I went with a deep cut Autumn 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUEeqvp_BrQ

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