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Journalist Alex Wagner, host of Runaway Country: a new podcast from Crooked Media, joins Sam to talk about how she can’t decide which department—HHS or DOJ—is the current worst offender. They talk about how journalism school isn’t preparing journalists for the way the news system currently works, and why the Pentagon press corp handed in its badges. They both reflect on the hundreds of travel pieces they’ve done and why it’s still important to talk to people at the heart of issues rather than the politicians and how it’s different talking to Trump supporters now than in 2018. They consider how and why politics has replaced community, Alex’s mom’s immigrant perspective, why this administration counts on us to lose interest, and why we just need 16 years with no bozos in the White House—is that too much to ask?

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