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- [00:08]
A
Welcome to Christ in Prophecy. We're very glad you've joined us today. I'm Tim Moore, Senior Evangelist for Lamb and Lion Ministries.
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And I'm Nathan Jones, the Internet Evangelist here at Lamb and Lion.
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A
For over four and a half decades, Lamb and Lion Ministries has been proclaiming the soon return of Jesus Christ through television, radio, a bimonthly magazine and a wealth of books and other publications. We do so because we take God at His word. So when Jesus said three times in Revelation 22 that he is coming again, quickly, we believe he is coming for his church. And that is an imminent event.
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B
Over the next three weeks, we intend to unpack the relevance and implication of that expectation. Suffice it to say that some people scoff at the promise of his return, just as Peter foretold in 2 Peter 3:9. And sadly, some of the loudest scoffers are inside the church, just as Peter prophesied. But throughout the church age, many Christians have been looking forward to the return of Jesus Christ and have actively anticipated the fulfillment of all God's promises in a literal fashion.
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A
One of the promises that seemed so incredible that many began to spiritualize it away was God's promise to regather and restore the Jewish people to the land promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob forever. But we intend to demonstrate that Christian Zionism is New Testament.
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B
And to help us explore this important and timely topic, we've invited a respected expert in the writings of the early church fathers to join us today.
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A
That would be Lee Brainard, a self taught and well respected expert in ancient Greek and Hebrew texts. And he's also an expert in eschatology, prevalent in the early church. So Lee, welcome back to Christ in Prophecy.
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C
Good to be with you, Tim. Nathan.
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B
Excellent brother. Good to always have you here.
- [01:46]
C
Amen.
- [01:47]
A
Well, before we dive in fellows, and there is a lot to unpack in this discussion of Christian Zionism, but let's unpack and actually define some of the terms that we talk about. So when we say eschatology, for somebody who is not familiar with that old theological term, what does that refer to?
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C
It's simply the study of the last things or the end of the age.
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A
Alright, study of the last things, what do we mean when we say the early church fathers? Who is that?
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C
Well, it was early believers that were either pastors or Bible teachers in the first few centuries, the church that actually led the church forwards in the things of God.
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A
Okay, so we're talking probably the first two or three centuries in the church.
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B
Okay, post apostles then.
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C
Yes, post apostles, yeah.
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A
But actually, some of them, we would obviously point out, were taught by the apostles. So Irenaeus was a disciple of John, and there were others who had a very direct lineage to the apostles and their teaching. Apostles, of course, had been taught by none other than Jesus Christ.
- [02:46]
C
That's exactly right, yes.
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A
Okay, so when we talk about Zionism, this is a word that has all sorts of political ramifications today, even as you watch the television news, you see people who are anti Zionists, as they say. What is Zionism classically defined as?
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C
Well, Zionism is a vision for the Jews to return to their own native land of Israel and. And be planted and grow there and be blessed of God there.
- [03:14]
A
Okay, so it's an expectation that there is a provision for the Jewish people as a nation or as what I believe Scripture would call the House of Israel, to go back to a land designated for them, designated not just by the United nations at the middle of the last century, not just by any other legal entity, but designated for them by himself. It is the Promised land. So I use the phrase house of Israel. That is a term I pull directly from Ezekiel 36 when we talk about, well, what is Israel? Is it a modern nation state? Is it a people group? Is it an ethnic group? Is it. Yes, yes, yes, it's all those things. Is it a land? But biblically, the House of Israel is the genetic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And Zionism is simply supporting their return.
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C
Ancient promised land, a land that God promised to them.
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B
Yes, Sir Lee, that promises all throughout the Bible, especially prophecies like Ezekiel 36 and 37, prophesy the return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel. But why is it that idea in the church over the last two millennia fallen under such scorn and contempt?
- [04:22]
C
Well, it really boils down to one thing, replacement theology. You had the early church fathers. They would take every place that Israel appears in the Old Testament scriptures and the Gospels, replace it with the church. So you're spiritualizing all those prophecies that are blessing upon Israel and ignoring all the ones that are curses upon Israel.
- [04:45]
A
You know, I think we can see this trend even in some good ways. So we as Gentile Christians, worship the Lord on Sunday, the Lord's Day, because that's the day of his resurrection. But you can see already a separation from traditional worship on the Sabbath, which would have been Saturday. And then you move forward into the church age, and you see how even Easter became the celebration removed from any kind of reflection of the Passover as the origin of our Resurrection, celebration of Jesus, death, burial and resurrection as that sacrificial lamb.
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C
Yeah. And this is a moral tragedy and even a theological tragedy. Tragedy in that that foundation layer is stripped away from the New Testament. So the Old Testament gets separated from the New Testament.
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B
It's interesting too that you even see Bibles today that will take the word Israel and put the word church, even in an Old Testament context. Where did replacement theology come from? Has it been there since the beginning of church history or has it picked up later in church history?
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C
Well, it first arose late in the second century when. But by the time you're into the mid third century, it's becoming prevalent. You come into the time of Augustine and Jerome and it is the dominant theology in the early church.
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A
Well, Lee, it would seem to me that there is some realization that perhaps some credence would have been given. And I'm not agreeing with replacement theology, but you can almost understand why people would have thought, well, maybe God has turned aside from the Jews, because we see that the land devastated, the house of Israel was scattered and the church was ascending throughout the church age and it was becoming more and more Gentile in its flavor. But the problem is people didn't read scripture to understand all of those things were prophesied. The Lord declared that he would devastate the land, that he would scatter the Jews. You can go back to Deuteronomy 28:29. Moses himself made that prophecy. And so you can almost understand their thinking, but it's divorced from scriptural reality that this was prophesied as was God's regathering and reassession of the Jewish people.
- [06:53]
C
Yeah, they're basically ignoring passages like Romans, chapter 11, Hosea, the end of chapter five, the beginning of chapter six, where there's a promise of the restoration of Israel.
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B
Well, we say that God is faithful and men is faithless. Is God going to fulfill his covenants, that he will bring the Jewish people back to the land and a remnant will get saved? Or did the spiritualists throughout church history say, nah, that's just a. It means the church will be the remnant.
- [07:24]
C
I absolutely believe that God is going to go back to Israel, dealing with them and honor his word. Absolutely, entirely without exception, that he will gather Israel back in the land in unbelief, which he's presently doing. He's going to put them through a time of tribulation to humble them and break them and, and bring them to faith, and then he's going to bring the whole saved nation into the blessings of the new Covenant in Jesus Christ and his blood.
- [07:54]
B
Yeah.
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A
And sadly, as our friend Olivier Melnick says, that whole saved nation will be a remnant of the house of Israel that is in evidence today. Because during that tribulation period, two thirds will be killed under the onslaught of the Antichrist. And so we're trying to share the faith in. And let's be clear. There is not a separate gospel for Jews or Gentiles. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is salvation only in the person of Jesus Christ. And yet in the fullness of time, God has promised that he will redeem Israel as they turn to him in faith.
- [08:26]
C
Absolutely. And I think people just struggle. They don't understand there's a difference between the church program and the national Israel program. They're both under the umbrella, but of the New Covenant. But there are two distinct programs.
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B
Well, why is that then? Because, okay, we can say that the Jewish people can become part of the church and be saved within the church realm. Why nationally do they have to be restored?
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C
Because Israel cannot receive her Old Testament promises on the land. The temple, the throne or the kingdom can't receive them nationally unless the nation is brought into the New covenant.
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B
That solves a lot of questions that people have. Because they can't divorce the difference between the Jewish people as an ethnicity and Jewish people as in the three that you said. Or they could be Jewish, but they don't have to be in the land. All three are necessary for God's fulfilled prophecies then.
- [09:16]
A
They sure are. And so even then, the nation of Israel as exists today. So we think about a nation state in the land of Israel, what was known as Palestine from the era of the Romans through 1948 and what some unfortunately still call Palestine, that was meant to be a Roman scur, or, you know, slur a slur. Exactly right on the Jewish people. But. But it is the land of Israel. And so even the nation that exists today is kind of a repository for the people holding them until the time that this nation will emerge, even in the end times as all the Jews are regathered. Well, Lee, obviously we are talking about Christian Zionism. And we know that the Lord himself is faithful to his promises. But faithful Christians have always expected the Lord to keep all his promises and not just the ones made to us, but the ones made to the Jewish people. I mentioned Irenaeus, who was actually a student of Polycarp. Polycarp was a disciple of John. But from the early church fathers forward, there have been faithful Christians who have taken the word of God as literal and true?
- [10:22]
C
Absolutely. For instance, in Irenaeus work against heresies, we read in Book 5, Chapter 34, Section 1, that there are two distinct programs under the heading church. So he's got the New Testament Church and the Old Testament Church. And when we go to book four in chapter 31, we read the story about Lot and his two daughters. And he claims that this is a picture of the two synagogues or the two churches. The Old Testament synagogue, the New Testament Synagogue, the Old Testament Church, the. The New Testament Church. And then when we come into back to section 34, chapter 34 in book five, he's very clear that he's going to regather the Old Testament Church when he's done with the New Testament Church. And he's talking about his work with the New Testament Church in the present tense and his work with the Old Testament church and future tense. So he's teaching the same thing we teach in modern dispensationalism. We say the church and Israel. He says the New Testament Church, the
- [11:37]
A
Old Testament Church, the assembly of God's people, those who are favored and chosen by God.
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C
That's right.
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B
You bring up a term that I think we need to define is that we talk Zionism as the Jewish belief of returning to land. But you mentioned Christian Zionism.
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C
Yes.
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What's the difference between Jewish Zionism and Christian Zionism? Zionism.
- [11:54]
C
Well, as far as the essence of what it is, it's essentially the same thing. But Christian Zionism is we are supporting God's program in the scriptures of God returning Israel to the land, God putting Israel in the tribulation, God redeeming the people of Israel. And so we believe this, we believe
- [12:16]
B
God's program because we get people right into the ministry all the time that say, I can't support Netanyahu, I can't support what Israel is doing. I. I said you support everything our own government does. Being a Christian Zionist isn't about supporting a secular nation. It's about supporting the work that God is doing through that nation to bring a remnant to redemption. And have there been other voices like that throughout church history?
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A
That's well said, Nathan. I appreciate that fact because yes, none of us support everything any government or any government official does, but we support what God is doing even through imperfect men and women amongst us today.
- [12:51]
C
Well, I think people need to understand that the fact that Israel is an ungodly nation, that's in the plan of God. God gathered the unbelieving Jews in their idolatry, their wickedness, their iniquity back into the land.
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B
Isaiah 11:11. That was a prophecy the Jewish people to return in unbelief. Because that's another objection that we get all the time. Well, they need to be a holy and righteous people before we can recognize their right to the land we. But prophecy says otherwise. Prophecy says they have to return to the land in unbelief.
- [13:21]
A
As a matter of fact, even Ezekiel 36 when it says the Jewish people, the house of Israel will be gathered to the nation, excuse me, to the mountains of Israel. The Lord says to the house of Israel in verse 22. Thus says the Lord God. It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for my holy name which you have profaned among the nations. He says the same thing down in, in verse 32. It's not for your sake. It's not because you deserve this, because you've merited this, because you have grown in my favor so much by your behavior that I'm going to bless you. It is because I made a promise and for my name's sake I will not violate a promise. The promise given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the promises given to David, all the rest will be fulfilled in the house of Israel. And we're seeing that coming to fruition. Fulfilled yet, but beginning to take shape even in the land of Israel.
- [14:16]
C
The real message here is God is the God of all grace. If he can take iniquitous, backsliding, rebellious, pagan Israel and give them or me or you. Yeah, and give them a second chance, he can give anybody on planet earth a second chance.
- [14:34]
B
Isn't that why they're called Israel? Struggles with God, right? That's right. That's what Jacob did. He struggled with God. Interesting how that the Jewish people have missed that promise, missed that opportunity. I think when we go to Israel, many Jewish people today don't realize they are fulfilling the promise of prophecy. Whether they are Christian Zionists or Jewish Zionists or not, they are living in a modern day miracle. And the fact that the church continues to miss the fact that we are seeing fulfilled Bible prophecy shows how much little they understand Bible prophecy.
- [15:02]
A
Well, you mentioned some of the early church fathers, Lee. Do you know of any medieval church figures down through the ages who also believed in God, provision and plan for the Jewish people and supported their rightful return to Israel? Or do you think that the Dark ages as we think of them were a darkened period of understanding of Bible prophecy? Were there some shining lights in that period?
- [15:24]
C
Well, from the late patristic era up through the early pre Reformation era, there was not a lot of information that has survived the purgings of the Catholic Church. And I think we really need to focus a lot of research on Catholic records in Latin, Greek that need to be searched through because I think we're going to find some information there. But once you get into the late medieval era, the pre Reformation area, we start to find information on the restoration of Israel. And when the Reformation explodes on the scene, the. Then we find a ton of information. Sola scriptura. When that came back into the. Into the picture, there was a plethora of early Puritans and early Reformation characters who believed in the restoration of Israel, and not always merely as an explosion of Jews being saved into the church. But many of them held that he was going to go back and fulfill the Jewish promises as a distinct body of promises, distinct from the Church.
- [16:33]
A
And I would argue that some of them actually were eager for the Lord to fulfill those promises because they recognized that it was a part of the fulfillment of the end times. We talked about eschatology and they knew that Israel had to be back in the land, had to be back receiving those promises fulfilled when Jesus would return to the earth. So if you're eager for Jesus to return, then, then you are eager for the Jews to go home, because all that sets into place the whole end time scheme.
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B
It's interesting to read the writings that say Cotton Mather, Puritan pastor, all the way up to C.I. scofield, who wrote the Scofield Bible, all before Israel became a Nation in 1948. And they read these prophecies and they'd look at them, they'd be like it says, Israel is going to make aliyah and go back into the land again. Of course, we use the word aliyah now. And they said, well, I don't understand it. I don't see how it could possibly happen. But the Bible says it, I believe it, and therefore it must be. And so they stood on the faith of knowing that God would fulfill it. We, on the other hand, after 1948, seem to have no faith in the fact, even though Israel is a nation again.
- [17:35]
C
That's right. So if a person is interested in looking at this subject on people from the beginning of the Reformation up to Darby's time that actually embraced the restoration of Israel. Chapter two in William Watson's book Dispensationalism Before Darby has a ton of information there. And he mentions people like Sir Henry Finch, who In the early 1600s taught that there was going to be A true spiritual conversion to Christ of the Jews, not merely as a subset of the church, but as a physical Israel that's distinct from the church under the New Covenant program. And he took Ezekiel 38 and 39 literally.
- [18:14]
A
Well, there's another great resource we'll talk about in a moment, but Dr. David Reagan wrote that Jewish people rejected or beloved. And so we have resources even here at Lamb and Lion Ministries to point you to all the promises of God that are still being fulfilled and right before our eyes in the nation of Israel. Well, fellas, I'm so excited about the fact that we are following in the footsteps of other Christians who took God at his word. And leeah, I appreciate what you said about the Catholic Church trying to squelch some of this truth. For centuries within the Catholic Church, it was illegal to even own or read a Bible for yourself because they wanted to tell you what the interpreted meaning was. And of course that led to many grave errors in terms of the faith once for all handed down to the saints. We'll touch on that next week again. But one of the things that happened with the Reformation, as you said, is people returned to sola Scripture. In other words, only the Scriptures will take the word of God as literal and true. I think that true faithful Christians began to understand that the promises of God are not just for us as followers of Christ, but they are also for the Jewish people. Because he yet still has a plan. And I use two examples. In the 1800s, an Anglican cleric, actually a pastor by the name of William Henry Heckler, became convinced that the west, meaning all the European nations, should be adamantly supportive of the Jewish people going home to Palestine, as he then called it, but to their ancient homeland, because that is exactly what Scripture foretold. And so he became very outspoken in trying to advocate for the European governments to allow the Jews to go back home to Israel. And one of the people that he was able to influence and encourage was none other than Theodor Herzl, who, who is considered the father of Jewish Zionism. But it was a Christian man, a Christian that was faithful to the promises of God. That really sparked even in Herzl's heart this understanding that the Jews need to leave places like Russia and Germany and France and go home to Israel.
- [20:20]
C
Amen. And what a blessing it is. And where did these men get their beliefs? Did they grab them out of thin air? No, it was going back to the word of God and trusting it was written by average men, fishermen and farm boys. For fishermen and farm boys.
- [20:38]
A
Well, I'll Give you one other example, and that's William Blackstone. Now, some of you may have heard that name. William Blackstone is a famous legal scholar in England. And much of our own American jurisprudence or law came from William Blackstone. But this is a different William Blackstone. He was an American who lived again in the late 1800s. And in 1891, he distributed what was known as the Blackstone Memorial. And this wasn't something to be written on a gravestone. It was actually a petition that was calling for the support of the Jews being allowed to go home to again, Palestine, as it was known then, but we would know it as the land of Israel because he recognized there were 2 million Russian Jews who were suffering under tremendous persecution of the pogroms. And he said, we need to support allowing the Jews to go somewhere. And most of the European nations are not going to welcome them. Even America might not, but they can go home to Israel. And do you know, he had signatories such as John D. Rockefeller, J.P. morgan, future President William McKinley, the Chief justice of the Supreme Court, Melville Fuller. He had a number of congressmen, he had all the leading newspaper editors, including the the New York Times of the day, supporting Zionism. He even had all the Ivy League university presidents signing on because they were Christians then and they were supportive of Zionism. And so this petition was handed over to President of the United States Benjamin Harrison again in 1891. It kind of disappeared, but it shows that even in the late 19th century, there were faithful Christians here in the United States, including leading men of industry and of government, supportive of the Jews being able to go home to their promised land.
- [22:24]
C
And what a blessing that is that God used secular sources and merely religious sources to bring together a cause that's 100% biblical.
- [22:36]
A
Amen.
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B
I remember some of the Zionist Congresses were pushing the idea of maybe Uganda ought to be a new home for the Jewish people, but because of the Christians among them said, hey, no, biblically, the land is the land of Palestine, and actually had to talk some of the Jewish leaders into focusing back on the land of Palestine. Well, Lee, why is Satan trying so hard to discredit Christian Zionism? It's almost become a dirty word amongst most of our churches.
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C
Well, he's had several main things he's been going after since the very beginning of time. First he tried to stop the messianic line. Then he tried to defile and pollute the messianic line. And then he's tried to stop the birth of the Messiah. And now he's been trying to stop the church. But his last ditch effort is to stop Israel. If he can exterminate Israel, there's no Israel for the Lord to return to, to deliver. And in his demented mind, he's thinking, well, maybe I can foil the kingdom or, or at least prove God a liar.
- [23:40]
A
Yeah, Yep, yeah, he's trying to prove God a liar or thwart his plan. But why is it so particularly tragic for a Christian to fall prey to this specific deception that is a satanic deception? Why should Christians of all people, never fall to this kind of propaganda?
- [23:58]
C
Well, on a superficial level, you're missing a very important theme of Scripture, which is God's plan nation, not just individuals. He's got his individual salvation plan, but a plan to have a nation which is blessed not as an end in and of itself, but that nation to be a blessing to the whole world. But on a deeper level, you're losing the literal, historical, grammatical understanding of the Bible.
- [24:25]
A
And that's tragic in and of itself. Let alone the Lord will bless those who bless the descendants of Abraham and curse those who curse. And I mean, just for that reason alone, we should be blessing the Jewish people, let alone buying into all the promises of God and really giving him glory for fulfilling them for his own name's sake.
- [24:43]
C
One of the scariest passages in scripture in my mind is Matthew 25, the sheep and goats judgment. When the Lord separates the Gentiles into believing Gentiles and unbelieving Gentiles, but he does not separate them on their profession of faith or their fact of faith. And he doesn't separate them on whether they're born again or not born again. He doesn't separate them on the mark of the beast. How does he separate them on their response to the Jews?
- [25:11]
B
But that's a lesson, because who wants to stand in front of the living God and say no? And I think so many Christians today are doing that when it comes to Israel. They're saying, no, God, we don't want you to progress in your plan of bringing a remnant of the Jewish people to salvation. So where is this all going prophetically? Because if Christians are standing against Israel, God's still going to do what he's going to do. What's he trying to accomplish?
- [25:34]
C
Well, I think he's got a big separation going in the world right now. And this growing anti Semitism, anti Judaism, anti Jews, anti Zionism, it's going down a path that ultimately is going to completely harmonize with the path of Satan, with the path of the Antichrist, with the path of the mark of the beast or path of unbelief. They are coming together. It is converging.
- [26:00]
A
You know, as a matter of fact, just to look at the transgression from 120 years ago when Christians were supportive of Jews going home. Like I said, even university presidents and newspaper editors. And then we saw a BDS movement move out, boycott, divest and sanction 20 years ago and today it's just rampant anti Semitism. Satan is alive and well and he is raging because I believe he knows his time is short. Well folks, obviously before we leave, I want to tell you one more time about an opportunity we have here at Lamb and Lion Ministries for you to get the Jewish people rejected or beloved. A great treatise on why we who are followers of Christ should support God's plan for the ages which includes a provision and indeed a keeping of his promises to the Jewish people. Well Lee, we've run out of time today on this episode of Christ in Prophecy. But there's so much we could say about Christian Zionism and its Christ honoring pedigree down through the ages.
- [26:55]
C
There absolutely is. You could write a whole book on it.
- [26:59]
A
I think you should.
- [27:00]
B
Well, we can say, folks, wait, there's more. And since there is so much more we could talk about, we're going to come back next week and we're going to continue this conversation.
- [27:08]
A
That's exactly right. We plan a three part series with Lee Brainerd. So we hope you'll join us next week as we debunk the Satanic prophecy propaganda that the pre tribulation rapture is a concept too new to be true. In fact, faithful Christians have been longing for Jesus return for the past 2,000 years. So Lee, you will stick around with us for a couple more weeks, won't you?
- [27:28]
C
I wouldn't miss it.
- [27:29]
A
Alright, very good.
- [27:30]
B
Well Lee, how can people get in touch with your ministry?
- [27:32]
C
They can get in touch with me@soothkeep.info for my website. I'm Soothkeep on my YouTube channel and I'm soothkeep on numerous social media venues.
- [27:42]
A
Very good. Well, that's all the time we do have for today and we hope we've encouraged you to love the Jewish people as God does. We also hope that you will seek to bless those God has promised to bless, not merely as a Zionist, but as a faithful follower of Jesus Christ. So until next week, let's keep looking up as we await the homeward call of our Jewish Messiah. Godspeed.
- [28:05]
B
Christ in prophecy is made possible through the faithful and generous support of viewers like you, please consider making a donation to Lamb and Lion Ministries so that we can continue broadcasting the message of Jesus soon return. Thank you and God bless you.