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- [00:00]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Foreign.
- [00:08]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Tenpenny Files. I'm your host, Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. The Tenpenny Files has daily conversations that are meant to inform and educate, not just to entertain. I come prepared and we let the discussion unfold naturally with people worth hearing on topics worth exploring. If it matters to your body, your freedom, your future, we talk about it here. Each day. I talk with authors, documentary filmmakers, and independent thinkers whose work challenges mainstream messaging. We cover a wide range of topics, so there's something here for everyone, from government, politics and history to astronomy, pets and travel, to food, farming and fitness, to vaccines, health and health policy. Every week we also have conversations with authors and pastors who write about faith and biblical principles. The goal is to introduce you to topics you've never heard of and have conversations on topics you've always wished you had time to explore but didn't know where to begin. Our hope is that our authors will show you the way. So join me here every day, Monday through Friday at 3pm Eastern Time at the Tenpenny Files to hear from voices that have been ignored, silenced and censored, but truly have something important to say. So before we begin today's episode, I just want to encourage all of our listeners to become Tenpenny prime members. A Prime Member member will receive an exclusive white paper each month that I write about your body, a recorded presentation you for education you can listen to at you on your own time and access to our monthly Ask the Expert masterclass. You know, every month that we do these we think that is the best one we've done yet and each year, each month they get better. So you won't want to miss this. It's part of your membership. To learn more go to primemembership.dr. tenpenny.com prime membership. Dr. Tenpity.com to learn more, find out what you've been missing and hopefully join us and support our work. Now let's get started. Today's conversation is with author, media evangelist and longtime co host of Christ in Prophecy at Lamb and Lion Ministries, Dr. Nathan E. Jones to talk about his book that was published pretty recently. So it really is very pertinent to today's top today's politics and what's going on in the world, the coming Millennial kingdom, what life will be like for us when Jesus reigns on Earth. God's answer to the failure that is human government. Nathan, it's so great to see you again. Welcome welcome Back to the 10 Penty files. Thank you so much for joining me this morning.
- [02:43]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Oh, it's my pleasure, Dr. Paten Pentiac. I really enjoyed our time last time and it was just exciting to see the invite to come back and share what God's put on our heart. So thank you.
- [02:53]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
You're welcome. You know your book, the Coming Millennial Kingdom, you dive right in to talk about the failure of human governments that are the results of a fractured society. And you say quote, that we clash over contradictory opinions on socio political matters because we don't have a common moral or political viewpoint. With no shared value system, societies invevitably tear themselves apart at seems, which surely seems like what's going on in our country today. What is the problem that evil has gotten so entrenched in our government and our human government has failed us?
- [03:37]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Well, that's a great question. When I started the book, I went and wanted to find out what were the the eight greatest empires that made a difference in all of human society. The real game changers. And I was surprised to learn the first one is one of the oldest ones, the Acadian. Next was the Persian, which you know, we're seeing a lot going on with Iran recently, which is the modern name of Persia. We got the Roman Empire, the Mongols, the Ottomans, the British, the, the Soviet Russo Union and then the United States. And it's interesting that when you look throughout history at all these great game changing empires, what do they all have in common? They've all failed. They don't exist anymore in the United States is in a process of decline. I think we're in kind of bumping up a little recently, but it's a, a slow bump and a continual decline we see because democracies or republics like we have don't last more than 200 years. We've reached 250, so praise the Lord. But it seems to be that continually human government fails. And that was what I really wanted to address. It's a apologetic which is a defense of the faith. The, the apologetic is the problem of evil as it relates to failed human government. You know, people are losing their faith in God because human government is a God ordained institution to hold back evil. The true purpose of government, if anyone ever wants to know, is true security and justice for its people. When it fails to do that, people not only lose faith in the government, they begin to lose faith in God. Why God, they ask, did you not stop whatever the issue is. And so the problem with government though, why it's a failure I think. Dr. Tenpenny, you go to Micah 7, 3, one of the saddest verses in all the Bible. And it says, the prince asks for gifts, the judge seeks a bribe, and the great man utters his evil desire. And so they scheme together. So as long as the sin nature is within us, mankind is corrupt, therefore government is corrupt, and governments will then always fail us.
- [05:38]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Isn't that the truth? And I think that people don't quite. Because we don't teach history anymore. And people don't know a lot about history and they don't particularly about ancient history. They don't even know about American history. But the decline of the Roman Empire, you know, it happened over about 150 years, you know, and it would have its little fits and starts. When I was in college, all of my. A large number of my. My. My humanities courses were all done on history. And I had almost a minor in history and. And my focus was on Roman history. I don't know, it just fascinated. Interesting a lot about the decline of the Roman Empire before the Visigoths came in from the north. That didn't just happen overnight. It's sort of like what we're seeing the gradual decline in. And the moral disintegration of what's happening in America. And, you know, we keep waving the flag and saying God bless America and make America great again and, you know, all of these things. But the continual downhill decline is really quite frightening and is very historical. And you talk about that in your book, particularly when you declare. Talk about the different falls and declines of the. Of the empires and how long that they lasted.
- [06:55]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Yeah, it's interesting. I love Roman history too, because I love church history. And it's interesting that the Roman Empire seems to have collapsed based on three things. One was the obvious internal moral degradation. I mean, the people had no moral fiber anymore, even though they called themselves the Christian as a. Since, excuse me, a Constantine, that they became a Christian nation, so to speak, morally. The Romans were completely bankrupt, too. There was a great plague that wiped out many. And so to fill the roles of jobs, they brought in, they had open borders. So, you know, they brought in, like you said, the Visigoths and the Vandals and all these groups. And once these groups came in and settled the area, they started saying, well, this is our land now. This isn't Roman land. And the nation or the empire, I should say, started being fractured. And we see that then the east and west legs of the Roman Empire. But you know what's interesting, Dr. Tenpenny, is that's a fulfillment of Bible prophecy because in Daniel 2, Daniel prophesied the future empires and one of them is the Roman empire. And he used a statue to define what those empires would be. The head of gold was Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian, and then the chest of silver was the Medo Persians, which replaced the Babylonian. And then the belly and the thighs of bronze was the Greeks, led by Alexander the Great. Finally, the legs would be the Roman Empire, A great fierce iron empire that would destroy and it would eventually degrade into 10 toes, which were a mixture of iron and clay. And Nebuchadnezzar had this dream, he said that a stone not cut out by human hands would come careening out of the sky and hit that statue and obliterate it and then grow to fill the earth. And it was a prophecy that human government will come to an end. This failed, flawed system that we're living under will have an end because that stone is a prophecy about the Messiah, the return of Jesus Christ to end the time of the Gentiles and to set up his kingdom on this earth, A kingdom of peace and righteousness and justice where Jesus rules and reigns from Jerusalem. So the answer to the problem of evil as it relates to failed human government can be found in that Daniel 2 prophecy that yes, this failed system will end when the Messiah returns.
- [09:11]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Now, you mentioned that prophecy in Daniel and your description of Nebuchadnezzar's dream that you talk about in your book was the clearest and most fascinating description I think I've ever read. I mean, it really laid it out, you know, really specifically. So for the listener. This book is something that it's not just a sit down and casually read book. This is a book that you study and you learn from. And you know that leads to a question because of the really clear delineation that you just went through. And you do it even in greater detail in your book about Nebuchadnezzar's dream. What's God's reason for revealing the whys and hows of human governments ending and being replaced by Christ's earthly kingdom? Why does he tell us that in advance and so far in advance, so many thousands of years in advance?
- [10:02]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Well, let's go up to the 30,000 foot view, get the God's eye view and see that when God made Adam and Eve, when he made mankind, we had perfect fellowship. Him, the Bible talks how in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve walked and talked and had fellowship with God. And it was a beautiful thing, it was a beautiful friendship. But once sin, which is rebellion, entered, that relationship was broken. And a holy God couldn't be with an unholy people. And so all of human history is his act of bringing humanity back to a saving relationship with him. Initially, he created human government as a system to keep lawlessness at bay, and then a sacrificial system to temporarily cover the sins of the people. But what we always needed was an ultimate Savior. And we have that in Jesus Christ, who gave his life. He was the ultimate, the pure and perfect sacrifice for our sins. And when we put our faith and trust in him, then our sins are forgiven and we are become what's called citizens of the kingdom of Christ's coming kingdom, where we look forward to that day where Jesus rules and reigns on this earth and we serve him now. So the answer is, is that sin will always destroy any system. And I know I'll get ahead of myself. But once Jesus rules and reigns here on this earth, we in our glorified bodies will rule over those who in their earthly bodies will continue to, you know, fill the planet and live, but they still have the sin nature in them. And even in a utopian setting, we will read in Revelation that there will be a final rebellion against God at the end of that millennial kingdom, and again, proof that as long as sin is in the picture, you can't have a perfect governmental system, even when we have the perfect king in place and the purified administration, which is us who are in our glorified bodies, the Church.
- [11:54]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Now, in your book, through your book, the Coming Millennial Kingdom, one of the themes I think that you try to bring across is to encourage faith and long suffering by telling us what we're looking forward to and what are the fourfolds of the kingdom of Christ to come?
- [12:12]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Oh, that's a good question. So a lot of people confuse. They don't know what the kingdom of Christ is. And one of the best explanations I is from Cotton Mather. In my research. Cotton Mather was a Puritan pastor a few hundred years ago, and he defined the kingdom of Christ as a fourfold kingdom, or you'd say threefolds, but one was still future. He said, it's a spiritual kingdom. In other words, if you become saved, you're part of that spiritual kingdom. And Jesus even said, this kingdom is not of this earth. And he was talking about ushering in the church age, which is a spiritual kingdom, but also a providential kingdom. In other words, God is supreme over all and he rules over all authority. And so there's that fold of the kingdom of Christ now directly through the Church is called the ecclesiastical fold. It's the church age where we are representative of Christ on this earth. But the one he pointed out most, that hasn't happened yet. And this is the one that a lot of Christians over the centuries have ignored and think the church is the kingdom is the Davidic fold of the kingdom. Where you go back to 2nd Samuel 7, where God made a covenant with King David. He said, I will set up your seed after you, and I will establish the throne of his, the Messiah's kingdom forever. So this was a promise that one day this ruler, this perfect ruler, a descendant of David, would come upon this earth and set up the final phase of the kingdom of Christ. That's Davidic kingdom, or as we know from the Book of Revelation, chapter 20, the millennial kingdom. And we call it the millennial Kingdom because six times there in Revelation 20, Jesus says, or the angel says, it's a thousand years. A thousand years, a thousand years. So milli anum means thousand years. And that's where we get the term thousand years. But it's actually a prophecy for a kingdom that will go on forever and ever. But the millennial kingdom is like the first phase or the opening act of that kingdom.
- [14:06]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
You know, you make a comment in the end of that section on the end of chapter two that I just think is just brilliant, and I want to just share it with our listeners and encourage you to get this book, because seriously, it is a book worth getting, having, and studying. You said that the golden rule of Bible interpretation is, quote, when the plain sense makes sense, look for no other sense, lest you end up with nonsense. I guess that's something that you must learn when you go to, when you go to school. But, you know, for those of us as laypeople out here that, you know, you could apply that to everything. You could apply that to politics and medicine and healthcare. And I'll say it again, when the plain sense makes sense, look for no other sense, lest you end up with nonsense. Why don't you expound on that a little bit more?
- [14:59]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Yeah, we call that the golden rule of biblical interpretation. You want to believe what the Lord says, then take them literally. It's a literal interpretation. We see so many false doctrines come about, even cults, because what they do is they spiritualize the Scripture. In other words, they say, well, the Bible doesn't mean what it means. For instance, Revelation 20, where six times it says the kingdom of Christ will initially be a thousand years. And people say, well, this doesn't really mean a thousand years. It Means we're in the kingdom now in the church, or the kingdom is in our heart, spiritually or. But the Lord was very clear. He didn't say it just once or twice, but six times a thousand years. So a literal interpretation gets the interpretation that yes, it is exactly a thousand years. And we call that pre millennialism, the belief that yes, the Bible teaches a thousand years. Likewise, when Jesus says in John 14:6, I am the way, the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father except by me. A spiritualist would say, well, you know, what he's saying is that he's opening up all the religions. Every path will take you to God, when in fact it's the complete opposite. And we find that people who spiritualize their interpretation of Scripture, remove God as the authority and put themselves as the authority of what God says and then interpret the Bible the way they want it to be interpreted. And that's why we've got so, so much Dr. Tenpenny, you know, it just so much heresy out there. So many churches that are steeped in apostasy is because they've removed the authority of God off of the interpretation of the Bible and place themselves in that role. So yes, follow the golden rule of interpretation and everything in the Bible will begin to make sense to you when you interpret the Bible literally.
- [16:44]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Yes, and what we have ended up with is just what you said in that quote. We've ended up with a lot of nonsense, a lot of nonsense in the church that just is the antithesis, the opposite of what Jesus says and what the Bible talks about. And somehow it's like, as long as we love and be all inclusive, that's what God wants. And that's not what God says in his Word. You know, in your book, you know, speaking of golden, of golden rules, in your book, you talk about the golden thread binding together what would have been, quote, a wearisome diet of Jewish history. Out loud when I said that, you know, because it is a lot of Jewish history that just, you know, is kind of tied together by a common thread. But what is that golden thread that ties that all together?
- [17:34]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
It's God's plan of redemption. It's throughout the entire Bible. Jesus Christ. You know, most people think, well, the New Testament is is only thing we know about Christ's coming kingdom or Jesus Christ. But you know, folks are surprised when they learn that the angel of the Lord was the name for the pre incarnate Jesus Christ who showed up to Abraham, who showed up to Gideon. You know, again and again it was Jesus Christ, he was preparing us for that time as. And the time of redemption. He was letting us know. We read about his coming kingdom all throughout the Old Testament. I mean, almost except everything but Song of Solomon, you can see, and even Song of Solomon is a picture of a husband and wife, which we know is Jesus Christ, and the bride, which is the church. So where you. When you know to look for it, it will really amaze you. Read the Bible with the anticipation of Christ's kingdom, and you will see all these different prophecies come about, some of them, like, for instance, Daniel 2:44. The God of heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed. And the kingdom shall not be left to other people. It shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, these Gentile kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Zechariah 14:9. The Lord shall be king over all the earth. Psalm 22. For the kingdom is the Lord's, and he rules over the nations. So if you're going to spiritualize scripture, you say, well, spiritually, Jesus rules over the hearts of the world. But is the Lord king over all the earth? Right now, for instance, is. Is his kingdom here on this earth without end. It says in Isaiah 42, he will bring forth justice for truth. He will not fail nor be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth. And the coastland shall wait for his laws. Is the world just obviously not? Did the coastlands wait to know about the Lord's law and his moral law and follow it? No. The world's an open rebellion against God. So you see it throughout the Scriptures that God wants us to know. And again, let's go up to 30,000ft again. Jesus wins. And because he wins, his children, if you know Jesus as your Savior, you win as well. We were promised to serve and reign with Jesus Christ through the millennial kingdom and then on into eternity. So all of human history is God's plan of redemption. And he teaches us that sin and rebellion only destroys. It never brings the perfect utopia and the perfect relationship with God that we so long for.
- [20:06]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
And the sin is always forgiven when you ask for forgiveness. You know, last year was first year in my life that I started with Genesis 1:1 and read right straight Bible. You know, you've. I've, you know, done a lot of piecemeal stuff my whole life, like I think most Christians have. But I said, you know, I want to get the story straight. And so I started at the beginning and, and when you get into, like kings and, you know, chronicles and you see the, the Good kings and the bad kings and what they do. And then the good kings come along and do these great things, but then a bad king comes and destroys all of it. And then people repent. And then God says, okay, I'll let you do it again. And it's done and done and done and done. Sort of like what you say, the wearisome diet of Jewish history. You know, when I'm reading through that, I'm wondering, why do people not learn any lessons? Why do they not learn that when things are bad, when you repent, God restores you. Once you're restored, why does it go through that cycle again of people just don't. Don't stay with the repentance and stay with God.
- [21:14]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
You know, when I was growing up and I'd read through the Old Testament and Israel is meant to be an example to us, that God set them up as a example. We look at Israel and we know us individually and nationally, of course, but individually, how spiritually we work. And I always wondered, you know, the first generation was excited and passionate. You know, they were like, Joshua, we will serve the Lord. As for me in my house, you know, we will serve the Lord. And then the next generation was. Was okay, but a little apathetic. You know, they just weren't as passionate about the Lord. The third generation was totally apathy. It didn't. God's error, okay, I'm going through the motions. But then the fourth generation would be an open rebellion against God. And then what happened? God would send a plague or an invading army, and then the people would cry out to God for help. He'd restore them. You know, they repent of their sins, and they'd be on fire for the Lord. And then the next generation would be apathetic. And that cycle went on and on and on. And I remember as a kid thinking, you know, lord, what is wrong with these people you've chosen? You know, they. They just can't seem to get their act together. And then I've got a few decades behind me. I'm like, oh, it's an example of how we are like that. You know, we're initially very passionate about the Lord, but over time we get comfortable, we become apathetic. And if we come too apathetic, we can have open rebellion. You and I, I'm sure, know many Christians who started off well but now have no relationship with the Lord whatsoever. And usually then the Lord has to intervene and, and bring something terrible in our lives to get us to bend a knee, repent, and turn back to him. So again, it's all about proving that we need Jesus. We need to be plugged into God to have that passion, to have that good relationship. And it's hard. I mean, we have faith based on not seeing the Lord. But he promises one day that Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem. The nations are going to go up and see him. The Bible prophesies he's going to be sitting on the hillside and teaching like he did. And then in the eternal state, we will finally see the Father face to face. That perfect relationship will be finally commencing because the sin will be no more. Jesus will defeat death and Hades and all sin will be gone. And we'll be back in that perfect eternal fellowship. You know, Dr. Denpenny, when you look back over history and it seems like it's been a long time, 6,000 years, but when we're 60 million years old or 60 billion years old in the eternal state, this will sure seem like a blip on the map.
- [23:45]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Absolutely will. You know, it's interesting because family dynasties are kind of going that cycle too that you described. Like a man in the 20s and 30s works really hard to build up a dynasty and build up a lot of savings and builds a big company, passes it off to his son who kind of does okay with it. Then it goes to the grandson and he kind of chops up the company and makes it go away. And by the next generation it's not even there. So it even happens in the secular world, not just in the, in the religious world of that, those sort of cycles. You know, you reported that there are 75 verses in the Gospels in the book of Acts that talk about the future. And what terrible events will God have to bring to earth to prepare the hearts for the citizens of the Davidic kingdom. Tell us just a few of those before we go to the break here.
- [24:38]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Okay. Well, the Lord gave us, it's called the fig tree sign. In other words, when a fig tree rebutted, the Lord says, then you know that that is the era or the time period when he's returned. He was talking about Israel. When Israel becomes a nation again, that would be the significant event that would point to the fact that Jesus return was pretty imminent. Well, what nation has come back from the dead after 1900 years? The nation of Israel, the nation of the Bible. And sometimes you'll run into, people say, well that's an accident of history. Well, isn't God sovereign? How could that be an accident? History the Lord promised Jeremiah 30:11 For I am with you says the Lord to save you. Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you, yet I will not make a complete end of you. The very fact that we have Jews today, after pogroms and holocausts and persecution, shows that the Lord is keeping a remnant. He says in Isaiah 11 that he's going to regather the Jewish people a second time from the four corners of the earth and bring them back into their land. And Zechariah 8 says, he'll bring them back. They shall be my people. So in other words, the Jewish people haven't been set aside permanently. The Lord has promises the Abrahamic covenant, the land covenant, and the Davidic covenants. All three say that the Lord's going to restore a remnant of Jewish people to salvation. To do that, he's going to put the world through the worst time in human history. It's called the Tribulation. Daniel prophesies it will last seven years. And you can read in Revelation 21 judgments will befall the earth that will devastate the earth, reduce the population to almost nothing, and that Jesus returns at the very end. And he said he would not return until the Jewish remnant cries out, baruch habab bab shem adonai, which means blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. When the Jewish people finally accept Jesus as Messiah, he will return, he will rescue them, he will defeat evil, and he will set up his kingdom on this earth.
- [26:35]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Wow. Well, I guess we're all praying and hoping for that to come sooner rather than later.
- [26:40]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Amen.
- [26:41]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Yes, everything that's going on right now in politics. So let's hold that thought right there because this is a good place to take a short break for our station identification to hear from our sponsors for AmericaOutloud News. America Out Loud Talk Radio plays the 10 Penny Files on iHeartradio Network daily Monday through Friday at 3pm Eastern. You can also listen anywhere in the world by going to AmericaOutloud news and listening through their media player. If you've missed any of the great conversations that we've had and they have been really amazing, you can find the Tenpenny Files by putting that into the into the search bar of Spotify, Pandora, Apple, iTunes, iHeart Virtual Studio and on my platform drtenpani.com Dr. Substack.com We also play these on Rumble, Instagram and X where you can follow me at Busy drt There are so many great books and documentaries and so little time to read and watch in our busy, busy lives. This show is meant to maximize your time and jumpstart your interest and lead you to resources for further study and understanding. We have a great message coming from our sponsors. We will be right back with more with Dr. Nathan E. Jones about his book the Coming Millennial Kingd what Life Will Be like for Us When Jesus Reigns on Earth. We will be right back. Zeolite is a detox spray. We work specifically with a company called Touchstone Essentials. They are an incredible company. We've been working with them now for several years and Zeolite is a mineral that goes through your body like a one way basket. It will clean out heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury, aluminum, cadmium and it hooks onto those metals from a one way perspective. So once it's bound it goes out through your urine or your stools and doesn't get redeposited in other places. Go to drtenpenny.com detox to get your first bottle of Zeolite spray for $50 off. There are an awful lot of people that are affiliates for Mike Lindell because we all really appreciate what he does for this country. We appreciate the hard work that he does and we appreciate his products. He has more than 200 products in his store, everything from pillowcases and comforters to doggy beds. So MyPillow is a great place to shop for just about anything that you want and if you use our affiliate code drt that helps us, that can benefit us. It helps Michael and Dell and you'll get a great product for anybody that you're shopping for.
- [29:09]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
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Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
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Dr. Nathan E. Jones
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Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
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- [31:00]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
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- [32:20]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
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- [32:50]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
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- [33:32]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Welcome back everyone. Today we're talking with Dr. Nathan E. Jones about his book the Coming Millennial Kingdom. What life will be like for us when Jesus reigns on earth. God's answer to the failure of the human government. Let me tell you a little bit more about today's guest, Dr. Nathan Jones. Dr. Nathan Jones is a media evangelist, author and longtime co host of Christ in Prophecy at Lion, Lamb and Lion ministries. With over 25 years of experience using radio, television, Internet and print to spread the gospel, Nathan has dedicated his life to helping people know Jesus and understand Bible prophecy. The director of Internet outreach he reached, he leads global digital evangelism efforts, produces online video content and teaches across all platforms. Using his doctor in religious studies and evangelical apologetics, Dr. Nathan Jones blends a deep theology and cutting media into to equip believers and reach seekers around the world. Wow. What a great resume. That's just awesome, Nathan. That's just incredible that what you've been able to do in your life and for the Lord, that's just great. So welcome.
- [34:47]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
I don't know if your audience knows, but one of your many talents is that you know how to rewrite bios to be very engaging. And folks, she actually rewrote my bio to be much more interesting than what I had. So you are quite the author.
- [35:00]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Well, thank you so much. You know, your book the Coming Millennial Kingdom really is deep theology. Before the new kingdom was established here on earth, what terrible events will God bring to the earth to prepare hearts for the kingdom, you know, beyond just the tribulation. And this also brings up point that has become greatly discussed here in all sorts of Christian circles these days about the rapture, about, you know, pre millennial, pre, pre tribulation, mid tribulation, post tribulation, not at all that you know, it's not really going to happen. You know, God's going to come back and you know, there's all kinds of nonsense I guess you could say, you know, about like interpreting that from your perspective. Lead a little, give us a little perspective on the really talk of the day these days because I think a lot of people are saying I'm not going to get involved in, in trying to push that bill forward because it doesn't really matter. Jesus going to come back and take me away and it doesn't really matter. And it has led to a lot of people being totally disengaged with what we need to be doing in our lives these days shed a little insight on that for us.
- [36:10]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Okay, well, I believe that the Lord promises that the church will be raptured, caught up. You can read that in 1st Thessalonians 4:17. When you read caught up, that goes back to the Greek, which is harpazo, and the Latin. When the Bible is translated in the Latin rapio, and we've got to transliterate it into English, rapture. So the word rapture is there in 1st Thessalonians 4:17. But in most of our Bibles it says caught up. And it's a prophecy that the Lord will one day come for those who are saved his church, and catch us up before his wrath befalls the earth. He promised that in a number of verses, but the best One is Revelation 3:10, which promises that he will remove the church off this earth before he pours his wrath out in the tribulation. And the Bible teaches that, that it's meant to give us hope. Paul says knowing that the Lord's coming back and he's going to take us away before he pours his wrath on the earth, just as he did in the flood, is meant to give us hope in this day. Now, I find that many of the teachers and other students of Bible prophecy who believe that the rapture will happen before the tribulation. I think the weight of the evidence in the Bible points to that is that they're excited about. They have three things. One, they have hope that hope that Paul says that the Lord is coming back. He is not going to leave us to suffer and die at his own hands. He won't beat up his bride, but he will take us to heaven. Two, they're. They're really engaged in evangelism like you and I are. We, we're passionate about reaching as many people as we can as quickly as we can before the Lord returns. And three, we're dedicated to holy living. You know, the Lord. How will the Lord come back? How will the Master return to the vineyard and see his workers? He should see them living holy lives and being busy at his work. So at least from my perspective, those who have hold a pre trib rapture view, they're very passionate about those three things. But there are some that who are out there who know the Lord's coming back, but they don't really place the Rapture at any particular time. They just believe the Lord's coming back and he will. And they're, I have to say, apathetic about the Lord's return. So they live their Life. Well, nothing's really important. Eventually Jesus will rescue us. And it's a kind of spiritual laziness, sadly. But yeah, it can affect people if they think, yeah, well Jesus is going to just come and fix all our problems. But does he not tell us to be salt and light in this age? Does he not tell us to be engaged in, in, in the culture and bringing people to salvation? So I find that at least for those who are passionate about the pre tribulational rapture of Jesus Christ, they're very active and very passionate.
- [38:44]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
But that doesn't mean that things won't get pretty ugly before that happens, you know.
- [38:48]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Oh absolutely.
- [38:50]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Position is that, you know, where in that timeline, you know, because I mean, look at what today as we speak, you know, we're, we're bombing Iran and Iran's bombing 14 other countries. And we've got this tension between Israel and the United States and we've got tension between the United States and almost everybody else in the world. And so it doesn't, and you know, prices are up and we've got the trans movement, we've got all the terrible things that are happening in our education. And it, it doesn't mean that things aren't going to be uncomfortable and not good just because Jesus is coming back. You know, that those of us, I think that he allows a lot of this suffering that allows us the time to, to, to repent and say, lord, why is this happening? And please forgive me for my sins. I don't want to participate with this. And it's partly a, a cleansing period of getting as many people into his kingdom as he can. Am I looking at that through the right lens?
- [39:53]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
No, you're absolutely right. Matter of fact, the apostles went up to Jesus and they asked him that very question. They asked him, what are the signs leading up to your return? And Jesus said, number one sign, false prophets and false Christs, they'll proliferate. Wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, signs up in the sky. You know, we just had a lunar eclipse last night. A fearful events, he said, a great persecution of his followers, Christians and the whole world being focused on who controls Jerusalem. And he said, he compared that to a woman in labor. He says that, you know, a woman in labor, the contractions start far apart, but as they get closer to the baby, they become, the pain becomes more intense and the contractions more frequent. And so likewise these signs which we've had for a long time, but they would increase in frequency and intensity. I think the number one sign that most People notice is how nature continues to get crazier and crazier. Many more natural disasters, earthquakes and tornadoes and hurricanes. And the Lord said that would lead up. It would get worse and worse and worse to his return. Now he said that if the Tribulation lasted one more day than the seven years that it was going to be, it was ordained that there be no life left on this earth. So the contractions are actually leading up to the second coming of Jesus Christ with the Church coming behind him and watching him defeat evil. And so absolutely, we're living in a very difficult. I think the contractions are really ramping up during the Tribulation. They'll just be catastrophic. The world will be almost destroyed because of these disasters and epic things that will happen upon the earth that we read in the book of Revelation. But this is where the joy of the study of the millennial kingdom comes. This is where, Dr. Tenpenny, I have people come up to me about the book and say, you know, when we finally get past the Tribulation and get into what the millennial kingdom be like, it gives me so much hope that these dark days in which we're living will come to an end. We will have the perfect king. I love this particular verse, Isaiah 9. We read about it at Christmas time. It says, for unto us a child is born, and unto us a son is given. And the government will be upon his shoulders, and his name will be called what Wonderful counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and of the increase of his government and peace, there will be no end upon the throne of David. This is where we get the Davidic throne and over his kingdom to order an establishment with what? Judgment and justice from that time forward, ever and forevermore. So we know that these birth pains we're living in will come to an end. The birth is the return of Jesus Christ. And there's such a glorious time ahead of us once we get past these dark days.
- [42:39]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Now, even though Jesus said no one knows the time nor the hour, I don't. Only my Father in Heaven knows. You know, I'm sure that there's many Christians that keep looking around and say, lord, why do you tarry? Why are you waiting? What are you waiting for? What's waiting so long? Is there any biblical indication to why he is tarrying so long?
- [43:00]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Oh, yeah, you go to Second Peter three and the Lord prophesied, or he gives the answer why exactly that he did that. And so if we go to second Peter three, nine, it says, the Lord's not slow concerning his promise, as some consider slowness or slackness. But he's long suffering towards us. And here it is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. So he would like all to come to repentance. We know of course all isn't going to come to repentance, but he's been patient with us. We have the very fact that you and I are alive to be saved. If the Lord had lost his patience in the first century, we wouldn't even exist. And so the very fact that the Lord is patient, he's longsuffering. And you know the the Lord compares his wrath as a cup and it's a very deep cup. And his wrath slowly fills higher and higher and once it reaches the top and overflows, well then he's ready to act. And that's the tribulation. So when the very last person in the church age accepts Christ as Savior, then the Father will tell the Son, go and get your bride. And Jesus Christ will go into the clouds, he will call us up, we'll hear a trumpet call and those who are saved, the church will be brought up to the Lord. The Bible says that we will get our resurrected glorified bodies at that time and we will go up to heaven. We will experience what's called the Bema seat, judgment or the judgment of the just. It's a rewards where the Lord rewards us for the work that the Holy Spirit did through us. We receive crowns, we receive robes, we get new names and we get assigned positions of authority. And we also celebrate with the Lord the marriage supper of the Lamb, a great celebration of Jesus being reunited with his followers, which is us. And then we get to prepare to return with Jesus. It says we're going to ride on white horses. I'm not sure if those are real horses or Pegasuses or angels. But we will ride back with Jesus and we will watch him single handedly defeat the Antichrist and false prophet. This one world ruler, he's going to throw them right into hell and the demons too. He's going to chuck Satan into a pit. He's going to restore the earth. He's going to hold what's called the sheep goat judgment where he will. Those who survive the Tribulation will be divided. Those who rejected him and taken what's called the mark of the beast and worship Satan will be sent to torments to await final judgment. But those who accepted Christ in the kingdom will in the tribulation will live on into the kingdom. And their earthly bodies. They'll rebuild the planet. They'll have children. And so, yeah, a glorious time awaits us.
- [45:38]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Jesus finally sets up his authority in Jerusalem when he comes back to reign for that thousand years, what is promised to the Jewish people and to his church during that millennial kingdom?
- [45:51]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Okay. Isaiah 11 promises that the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. In other words, there won't be any atheists, agnostics, other religions. Everybody will go see Jesus. They will know. And so he promises too that they'll get to see him. And where will they see him? Zechariah 1:16 says, I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, my house shall be built in it. And so we learned there's many verses throughout the Old Testament where Jesus says that when he returns, he's going to build his capital city in Jerusalem. And Dr. Tenpenny, that's why the whole world is obsessed with Jerusalem. Because the satanic forces behind our world powers knows that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem. David is promised in Jeremiah 30, verse 9, and Ezekiel 34 will be a sub region. He'll be like the mayor of Jerusalem. There will also be a millennial temple. It's a 20 mile squared temple. Not that third temple that will be desecrated by the Antichrist, but Christ home in that kingdom. And the Jewish people, those who are saved in the tribulation. Those who survived, we only know a third of them sadly will survive, but they will go into the kingdom and they will be a priestly people. Hosea14 promises that he will heal their backsliding. I will love them freely, my anger is turned away from them. And one of the best verses in the Bible talking about during the kingdom, Zechariah 8:23 in those days, 10 men from every language of the nation shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man saying, let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. So Dr. Tenpenny, that was always the purpose of the Jewish people, to bring the Gentile nations to God. But they continually failed in that. Why? Because of their sin natures. Because of the desire to rebellion, the apathy that grows. But during the kingdom they'll restore their priestly role and they will serve the Lord, bringing the nations up to see Jesus. And again, we, in our glorified eternal bodies, we are promised to rule and reign over this earth. Daniel 7 says, but the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever. And Daniel 7:27, the kingdom and dominion, and the Greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people, the saints of the most high. So what do we have when we get into the kingdom? We have a perfect king. We have a purified government. So all government will be perfect and purified. The problem is that the people in the earthly bodies will still have the sin nature. And that is a lesson that will be learned at the end of the millennial kingdom, that as long as there's sin, you can have a perfect society.
- [48:32]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
How will this reflect. And this is a question that, this is a personal question I've always had about when you think about the. When you look at the globe and you see where, where Jerusalem is, and then you look at South America and Chile and Cape Town, Africa, and, and the far reaches of, of the north and South Korea and all of China, how do all of those people come to know Jesus as the King in Jerusalem?
- [49:00]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Well, going into the kingdom, everybody will know that there is a Lord. Malachi 1:11 says, from the rising of the sun, even to its going down, my name shall be great amongst the gentiles. The very fact that Jesus is ruling and reigning over this earth, every person on the planet goes up to see Jesus. Actually, it's mandated. It's called the Feast of Tabernacles. The Jewish people celebrate it today. But during the kingdom, it's promised that the Feast of Tabernacles will be held during that time. Zechariah 14:16 says, it shall come to pass that everyone who is left to all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles. So the Lord always wants to keep connected with us, and he'll do that during the kingdom, by everybody. Once a year going up to see Jesus in Jerusalem, they get to hear, they get to talk with him, they get to fellowship with him. He's teaching on the hillside again. He's not distance. He's not by faith, but by sight. The nations will see Jesus and we'll be there in our glorified bodies to teach the children of the Tribulation saints about Jesus as well. That's part of one of our roles isn't just government, but teaching and administrating as well, and leading the children born during that time to know Jesus as their Savior.
- [50:18]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Wow. Come, Jesus, come.
- [50:21]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Amen.
- [50:22]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
That is right there, you know, you already said that when Jesus comes back, the millennial kingdom, that all failed governments will go away. When will the final judgment come on that timeline, Nathan.
- [50:36]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Okay. Well, for a thousand years we have a kingdom of peace and righteousness and justice. The error is defined by joy. There's no war. None at all. No. No politics. Where Wherever the we'll beat our swords into plowshares and our spears and the pruning hooks. Isaiah 2. And the animals will at peace with each other. The land. There'll be endless food. The Lord will solve homelessness and hunger. Long lives. Those living in their earthly bodies will live to the hundreds of years. Satan and the demonic world isn't there. They're bound. But then the Lord does something very interesting at the end. We read in Revelation 20 that he shuts them up and seals them there for a thousand years. But in the end, he will be released for a little while. And Revelation 20 tells us that Satan, once the Lord releases him from his prison, he goes out like dropping a snake in a preschool. These innocent young people will be duped by his lies. Likely the same lies from the Garden of Eden. That you can be gods one day or you can live whatever the lust that you desire that you can't do. Now, if we just overthrow that joker in Jerusalem. And one of the saddest stories in the Bible, Dr. Tenpenny, is that it says that like the sands of the seas, the children are in the tribulation. Many of them will rebel. They'll join Satan. They'll march up to Jerusalem, called Yahweh Shema at the time, and they will try to overthrow Jesus. And since there's no war in that time, he throws down fire and just incinerates those armies. He immediately sends Satan into the lake of fire. And that's the last final rebellion against him. He will then resurrect everybody. It called the great rite throne judgment. All those who've rejected him throughout history, they will be judged based on the books. The one book that matters the most is the Book of Life, the Lamb's Book of Life. That's the book of all those who are saved. And since their names aren't in the Lamb's Book of Life, they will be cast to the lake of fire. And this is where we get, I think, one of the greatest verses in all the Bible. First Corinthians, 15:24. Then comes the end. When he delivers the kingdom to God the Father, he puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign till he's put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to destroy is death. Now, when all these things have been made subject to him, then the Son himself will also be subject to him, the Father who put all things under him, that God may be all in all. This is the victory passage here. This is Jesus Christ defeating all his enemies, including death. And then we enter into the eternal state where God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit rule over the eternal state. There's no more sin. That relationship is restored between man and God, and we live forever with him.
- [53:26]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
Amen to that. Right? Amen. Just like two minutes left. Nathan, tell us the best place. Get the coming millennial Kingdom. Do you sell that on your site or through your store or through your podcast? Tell people where is the best place to get that and tell us a little bit about the podcast and your online ministry.
- [53:46]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Okay, well, if you'd like to know more about the coming Millennial Kingdom, the book is on comingkingdombooks.com book.com of course, you can also find it on Amazon. I serve here at Lamb and Lion Ministries. We're a Bible prophecy teaching ministry. Our mission is to proclaim the soon return of Jesus Christ. You can go to our online store as well and books a million whatever you find a publisher publishing a house in a bookstore, you can find the coming Millennial Kingdom there. If folks would like to check it out again, comingkingdombook.com then go to my website, nathanejones.com or if you'd like to know more about Lamb and Lion Ministries, you can just visit us there@lamblion.com or christinprophecy.org you can watch all our television programs. Christ in Prophecy. We also have a radio program on 900 stations, also called Christ in Prophecy. We have the truth will set you free podcast that Pastor Vic Batista and I do. And then of course, the radio and television program was, was with our director, Tim Moore. And so we've, since 1980, our founder, Dr. David Reagan, has had this passion to proclaim Christ's return. And we will continue to do so until the Lord calls us hope in the rapture.
- [54:56]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
And that's busy.
- [54:59]
Dr. Nathan E. Jones
Oh, amen. We stay busy trying to get as many people saved before the Lord. We don't want anyone to have to live in the tribulation. That's, that's a horror. And so we, we call people to be saved. Now give your life, Surrender your life to Jesus Christ and so be saved.
- [55:13]
Dr. Sherry Tenpenny
You know, I listened to you on pray.com podcast. And so for people who are listening to this and want to find a consolid place for a lot of different Christian podcasts, pray.com is a really, it's a paid app, but it's worth the money. It's really, really a good app. There's a lot to choose from there from, from studies to books to, to podcasts to worship services to. It's a pretty complex app. I don't know how they get all that stuff in one app that they do, but it's really, really good. So thank you, Nathan, for being so much a servant to God. You know you will. You're going to be someday standing in front of the Lord and he's going to say, well done, good and faithful servant. You know, you've dedicated your life to bringing people to Christ. So I want to thank all of our listeners who've been here with us today. This is a great show. We appreciate every single person who's been here. And with that, I will close out with one of my favorite verses from the Bible. I close all my podcasts with whether they are live or pre recorded, which is Romans 12:12. Rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble, and be persistent in prayer. Remember to lean into God. Trust him for everything. His timeline may not be your timeline, but he will never let you down. So I'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on AmericaOutloud News. And you can find Nathan's book and all of the books from our guests that have been on the show. If you go to bookstore.doctor.com we've consolidated them there just for your convenience. But we always encourage people to buy directly from the authors. That's the best place for you to get your books. So thank you so much for being here today. We'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on the TED Penny Files. Goodbye, everybody. Have a great rest of your day. Goodbye and God bless.