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- [00:04]
Tim LaHaye
Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Christ in Prophecy. Let me ask you, are you excited about the Rapture of the Church?
- [00:11]
Nathan Jones
Could it really happen in our lifetime?
- [00:14]
Tim LaHaye
What happens to us once we get to heaven?
- [00:16]
Nathan Jones
What will it be like returning with Jesus to the earth at his second coming?
- [00:20]
Tim LaHaye
And what can we look forward to in Christ's millennial kingdom?
- [00:24]
Nathan Jones
Tim and I travel to the annual Pre Trib Study Group conference held every December in Dallas, Texas. We posed these important questions to a panel of Bible experts. Our first question addressed was, do you think we will see the Rapture in our lifetime? And if so, why here? Now are their responses, maybe today.
- [00:44]
Carl Broge
Maranatha.
- [00:46]
Tim LaHaye
I learned from Mr. Egan, that's Maranatha.
- [00:50]
Carl Broge
Maranatha, Maranatha.
- [00:52]
Don Perkins
That's it.
- [00:53]
Randall Price
You know, I'm 51, and I think we're about the same age or close that. Absolutely. I really do. I don't. I mean, when you think about Israel coming into the land 77 years ago towards the end of the age, I'm not one that thinks, oh, well, they could be around for another 500 years. You know, they're going to be brought back in the latter years, in the latter times. So if you just do some math and you go, oh, 500 years. Well, that's 2,500 years. So look, God has brought them back in the last 10% or less of the end of the age. And so to me, that makes sense that it would be called the end of the age or the latter times. So when you look in the rearview mirror and see that that was 77 years ago, I mean, and all of the players coming in and all the other convergences.
- [01:37]
Carl Broge
Absolutely. I believe that it's going to happen at our time. We know that it's an imminent event, but with all the indicators, and now none of these indicators point to the Rapture. They point to the second coming. But if we're seeing signs that point to the second coming, it lets me know the Rapture is even closer. You know, the Apostle Paul, in his day, he rapture. But what we are experiencing now, we're seeing prophecies that are coming to pass before our eyes that the Apostle Paul has never seen, which is telling me that the tribulation is near as well. But we know the Rapture is even closer. So I live my life every day looking, and I practice that Rapture drill because I do believe that he can come. You know, I had a dream one night that I was raptured. And, Tim, it was exciting. I love this dream. I'm Flying. I said, wow, it finally happened. And I woke up. I was so disappointed.
- [02:28]
Tim LaHaye
You know, I think Jesus said to the disciples, there were righteous men and prophets of old who longed to see what you're seeing. And I would say the same could be said of our day and age. There are people throughout the church age who long to see the signs that are multiplying before us. And we should not take that for granted. What a privilege to live in this time, right on the cusp of the Lord's coming.
- [02:48]
Carl Broge
I mean, we're seeing more stuff now than any generation. I've seen. The fact that Israel has come back into world history and you got all these other things and the globalism, I mean, just so many aspects, puzzle pieces clicking in, lets us know that it's close.
- [03:01]
Unknown Female Speaker
That's a good question. I would love to see it anytime. You know, even so, come Lord Jesus. That's the mindset that it could be any moment. And I try to live my life right here, right now. I think that First Peter, Second Peter are great gods for Christians who are living, waiting for the Rapture. I love those books of the Bible because it gives such practical advice on how we ought to be focused in these days that we live. And so it's a mindset of, you know, you plan and you live like you're going to be here until you're 80, 90, 100 years old and you're thinking about the future. But you live each day with this expectancy, this hope that you have that it could be any moment.
- [03:45]
Tim LaHaye
Do you really think it's going to happen in your lifetime?
- [03:47]
Olivia
What time is it? Yeah, not soon. You know, it's going. The Rapture. You know, we speak of the Rapture as being imminent, you know, like there's no sign. It's a signless event. There's no sign that needs to happen before the Rapture. Everything's in place. I mean, it's just like it could be any time in my lifetime. I'm 66. If I live to be another 20 years. Yes, but again, please don't send emails and texts to Lamblion or to Shalom and Messiah saying Olivia is a date setter. Please. That's not what I meant.
- [04:30]
Tim LaHaye
We're not a date setter.
- [04:31]
Olivia
There is a convergence right now and the speed is exponential. All those things are happening like laser beam focusing.
- [04:38]
Tim LaHaye
He's coming for me. Whether he comes for all of us at the same time.
- [04:42]
Unknown Male Speaker
No, I think it's going to happen within the next, in my opinion, next 10 years. I think there's a lot of technological advancements that we see in Revelation that are already ready to go. Today we're seeing the architecture being built for the beast kingdom. In my opinion, it's almost done. And there are things that are in scripture that talks about, in Revelation that talks about judgment on the earth dwellers and those that dwell upon the Earth. Well, we've got at least 20 different programs right now, civilian, military, governmental, that are looking to move off planet, to do off planet colonization. So, you know, Genesis 11, God says that, you know, if man is united in purpose and language and everything, that there's not really anything they can not do. And so if man is intent to get off planet, and if the judgments apply to those who dwell upon the Earth, you know, of course Satan is going to try and work all those angles.
- [05:32]
Don Perkins
So we're coming to the end or limits of our technology or how far God will let us go out into outer space, won't they?
- [05:39]
Unknown Male Speaker
Yeah, I believe so. I believe that's part of the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit is not just restraining evil writ large, but restraining how fast man progresses technologically throughout time. And so you look at the previous, you know, five, almost 6,000 years, man was limited to the speed of horse. And it's only been in this last 125 years.
- [05:58]
No, you know, Dr. Walvoord used to always say when you see the Christmas decorations go up in Walmart around Halloween, get ready because Thanksgiving is approaching. I believe he was the origin of that line. But you know, there's so much that's happening prophetically. Israel is back in the land after 1900 years. There's more Jewish people now. They've crossed the halfway mark living in Israel than all the nations of the world put together. Only about 6 million are not in the country itself. Many of those are in America. But things are moving so fast. And not to say that they all have to come back, because we know clearly at the Second Coming the Lord will gather those who have not made a return to Israel. But the plan is in place. When you add to that the moral atmosphere, the days of Noah, which were days of gross immorality and lawlessness, and the days of Lot. The coming of the Son of Man will be like his day. I mean, homosexuality, it is widespread like never before. We didn't know what it was when we were children. Now they learn about it at the age of five.
- [07:00]
I would be insanely surprised if the Rapture didn't happen in my lifetime. In fact, to be honest, I think I'd be Surprised if it didn't happen the next decade.
- [07:10]
Don Perkins
There you go.
- [07:10]
Tim LaHaye
Well, we have expected it for a long time. But I get more fever pitched in my anticipation day by day because the signs just seem to be multiplying. Lee, what do you see happening all around us today that convinces you we're that very close?
- [07:26]
Unknown Male Speaker
Well, there's several things. I mean, first of all, this insane forest fire of anti Semitism and anti Zionism that's spreading around the world. We see this rabid rapid increase in Big brother government technology with digital surveillance, digital id, digital banking. This is coming our way. There's no escape from it. This is a one way road to enslaving the entire world.
- [07:55]
All right, yes, but I don't. But what if I die tomorrow? Right, exactly. Then it happens for you.
- [08:03]
Don Perkins
Well, the dead in Christ will be raptured first.
- [08:05]
Tim LaHaye
But the Lord then comes for you tomorrow if you die. That's my philosophy, because he's coming for me. I hope he comes for all of us at the same time.
- [08:12]
Unknown Male Speaker
The dead in Christ will rise first.
- [08:14]
Tim LaHaye
There you go.
- [08:15]
Unknown Male Speaker
But we look at the dynamic of everything. It's like asking, do you believe Antichrist is alive today? Listen, I am not a date setter, never been a date setter, but I do not see how much longer this could go. And so in my mind, Antichrist must be a life day. Does he know who he is? I don't believe that that's even necessary at this point. And there's a whole lot of possible candidates that. But everything is happening. The Bible tells us in the book of Amos, once Israel is back in the land, they will never be uprooted. They're back in the land. And as everything is converging and we see the growing anti Semitism, it's hard for me to believe that this train has much further to go down the track.
- [09:01]
Unknown Female Speaker
100%. I have felt it in my bones, to be honest with you. You feel a storm coming and you can feel, especially the older people, and I'm getting that way, right. And I can feel when storms coming. That's how I feel about the Rapture. There are days where I just stop and I literally just think, is it about to happen at this moment? Because I feel it in my soul. I feel that my father is getting ready to send his son to come and get me. And I'm looking forward to that day. And I absolutely believe that it will happen in my lifetime.
- [09:29]
Tim LaHaye
In 2 Corinthians 5, 10, we learn, for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. So that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body according to what he has done, whether good or bad. And in Revelation 19 we read how the great multitudes in heaven will joyously shout, let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to him. For the marriage of the Lamb has come and his bride is. Has made herself ready.
- [09:54]
Nathan Jones
We discover from these passages that the raptured church will experience at least two events shortly after our arrival. The bema seat judgment and the marriage supper of the Lamb. Pastor Carl Broge of Search the Scriptures and Professor Randall Price of Word of the Bible Ministries will now briefly explain what the church has to look forward to when we experience these two momentous events.
- [10:14]
Unknown Male Speaker
Well, it's going to have a great start. The marriage of the Lamb takes place in heaven during the seven year tribulation period. The church is evaluated, rewarded. I take it that the marriage supper of the Lamb takes place on the earth when the Lord comes back. Isaiah 25, Matthew 22, Matthew 8 all allude to that. Where we sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and to be with God's people of all time with the Lord is I think, going to be a very special start to the millennial reign.
- [10:45]
This is designed for the church, the raptured saints. That's why it's the marriage supper of the Lamb. The Lamb is a relationship with the church, unique perspective, and they're the bride of Christ. So this all fits together, a marriage supper, always after a great victory, after a great triumph, after something the way people either resolved it in reconciliation or celebrated it was with a feast. That's traditional in the ancient near east and Middle East.
- [11:20]
Tim LaHaye
Or after a wedding.
- [11:21]
Unknown Male Speaker
Or after a wedding. Absolutely. And so in this case, one thing you know, this is not short lived. When we read what happens in heaven, there's the judgment seat of Christ, which is for believers in regard to rewards that they've experienced as they have been faithful, be faithful unto death, receive a crown of life, or all these type of things. So that's something that takes place in heaven. But the marriage supper takes place too, and we think that's a period of seven years because the Rapture takes place before the seven years and Christ returns with the church at the end of the seven years. So it's somewhere in that time frame. Now when I come to passages in the Old Testament, let's say Isaiah 25, 6, 9, there it talks about also the return of Christ. Now it talks about the men of renown and they come to Jerusalem and there's going to be a great feast. It's going to be bones with the marrow and aged, refined wine. And they're all going to sit down and they're going to say, this is our God for whom we've waited, that he might deliver us or save us. Which is exactly what has happened with his coming. And it's described as a feast or a messianic banquet. In this case, a big banquet. That happens. And so, just as we have this for the church, we're going to have this for redeemed Israel, because when he returns, we have the national repentance of Israel. They celebrate this great final victory and feast, and then I think we move to the judgment of the nations with this redeemed Israel having just come from all this great celebration, finishing up the act of separating those who will come into the millennial kingdom.
- [13:14]
Don Perkins
That's interesting.
- [13:15]
Unknown Male Speaker
You're the expert on that.
- [13:16]
Don Perkins
Well, just thinking that Jesus comes back, the world is like teetering on the brink of extinction. He's got the sheep, goat judgment. The people come out of Jehoshaphat. I wonder that food would have to come from heaven to feed all those messages. Either the Lord restores the planet and then they celebrate because, you know, it's a wasteland when Jesus comes back. But it's fascinating because a lot of people think, well, it's the wedding supper of the lamb up in heaven, or they place it after the tribulation and the two views conflict. But you've figured it out, because you're the expert at it, that there is one celebration for the church and another for the redeemed Jewish people.
- [13:50]
Unknown Male Speaker
It's interesting because I'm also worked at Qumran and this is my area at the Dead Sea Scrolls. There's one whole scroll that talks about this. Okay, so it talks about the priest and the bread and the wine and the Messiah of Israel coming into the midst. And it's all this kind of thing. It's about a big banquet that happens. And it's based on this passage. So it was an active hope in Judaism just before the time of Jesus. So they were expecting with the coming of Messiah, this kind of thing would happen when he delivered them from all their enemies.
- [14:24]
Nathan Jones
Well, so far in our prophetic timeline, the church has been raptured up to heaven. We then gave an account for our deeds while living on the earth and received our just rewards. Next, we celebrated the great marriage supper of the Lamb, as the church was spiritually wed to her groom, Jesus Christ. And finally, we were prepared to follow The King of Kings back to the earth at his second coming. There, Jesus will at last defeat his enemies and establish his millennial kingdom. So the second question we asked our expert panel was, what are you looking most forward to in Christ's coming kingdom? We'll lead off with our old friend Don Perkins of According to Prophecy Ministries, who shared what the return journey could be like riding our majestic steeds.
- [15:05]
Don Perkins
Well, knowing that then Jesus is going to rapture the church up to heaven. The world will experience the tribulation. Then the second coming, Jesus returns with his saints coming back. And brother, we're going to ask you what's your favorite part about the millennial kingdom? But I think since you are most known for and everybody brings it up,
- [15:22]
Nathan Jones
tell us about the return journey with
- [15:24]
Don Perkins
Jesus Christ on your horse.
- [15:25]
Carl Broge
Well, I Love that. Revelation 19:11 16 talks about the second coming of Christ. And the Bible talks about the armies of heaven will follow him. Two class of armies. We, the glorified saints who were raptured. And then the angelic, he's going to empty heaven. The angels will come back with him, but we, the redeemed, will be glorified in white robes. And the Bible said that we're going to ride horses. What I have done, I've challenged Christians from coast to coast. Name your horse. As a matter of fact, we've actually produced a new shirt now. It's called Name youe Horse. And I have the verse Revelation 19:11 16 on there. And it's a wonderful opportunity to evangelize. People see that shirt, they say, what do you mean, name your horse? Let me explain it to you. It's a great evangelistic tool to open up, but for Christians. The reason why I challenge Christians to name the horse, because it makes the second Coming personal, You know, And I've named my horse. I'll say it on live tv. My horse is named Nellie. Nelly Nellie. I've heard word Nellie every time. But I'll tell you this, every horse I had as a kid was named Nellie. And I said, well, forever, my horse is going to be named Nellie. Everywhere I go, everywhere I travel, I get emails. I get people calling me Brother Perkins. I finally named my horse. And when they say that, I know that the end times become personal. The return of Christ is personal to them.
- [16:46]
Unknown Female Speaker
The thing that I look forward to the most is being with Jesus, worshiping at his feet and just being in awe. You know, we all have that thought in our mind of what we're going to do when we get to heaven, when we get With Jesus, what we're going to say to Jesus, I tend to think that we're probably not going to say anything. We're just going to be in awe of his glory and his majesty for a long period of time.
- [17:07]
Olivia
Seeing him face to face.
- [17:08]
Don Perkins
Oh, yes, yes.
- [17:09]
Olivia
Seeing him face to face. And I don't even know how I'm gonna react to that because, you know, it's, you know, we don't.
- [17:17]
Don Perkins
I look like Jim Caviezel?
- [17:21]
Tim LaHaye
No. I can only imagine how I'll react.
- [17:24]
Olivia
Here's the thing. I think we speculate so much, it's all going to be good, but we speculate a lot and, and it's based on our finite minds and our finite bodies that are limited. And when we are in the millennial kingdom, we'll be in glory, we'll be in our glorified bodies and it will be a different take altogether.
- [17:46]
Randall Price
You know, I, of course, as I know you do too, interviewed you on your book. But all the scriptures, literal, so the lion eating straw like an ox, the wolf, and all the literal things that the entire creation being changed. Jesus ruling and reigning from Jerusalem at the center. I mean, on a real literal throne. It's going to be awesome. The whole topography of Israel being changed, where it's the mountain of the Lord, all the nations flow into it, all these prophecies. To me, I'm looking forward to the other passage that the whole earth will be full of the Lord's glory. So now to me, you look around and again, God is operating in his way, but evolution, blindness, all over. Yes. To see all that removed and the whole earth, to see that the Lord is real, God is real and then his reign.
- [18:39]
Unknown Female Speaker
I look forward to that age because there's so much to anticipate, so much to enjoy in that time. And one of the things I like to sort of joke about is how that the Dead Sea is going to be filled with fish. And it's like we're going to have a fishing competition right there at the Dead Sea. Yeah, the live sea. Yeah, the Dead Sea will become the live sea. And so just seeing creation restored to what it was and much of the curse of sin, although during that thousand year period, as Nathan has pointed out so well in his book, that there will still be the curse of sin, but so much of that will be reversed according to Isaiah's prophecies. So just seeing the effects on creation and how that's going to be transformed to something remarkable.
- [19:20]
Unknown Male Speaker
And I am looking forward to. We have one government, one religion, one Economic system. And it's all coming right from the heart of God.
- [19:31]
Tim LaHaye
One king, one person of Jesus.
- [19:32]
Unknown Male Speaker
Yes, exactly. Can you imagine what it's going to be like to living in a world where all the laws are straight from the scriptures, are common sense?
- [19:40]
Tim LaHaye
Oh, having served in the legislature, I can only imagine. But I look forward to that as well.
- [19:45]
Unknown Male Speaker
But there's another thing that's going to be missing in the kingdom. There won't be ignorance because we're going to have all the light there is. And you can easily fix ignorance by giving light. No man is going to say, go know the Lord. At least not the start of the kingdom. But we're also going to be missing stupid, because stupid is when you intentionally commit yourself to what you know is error. And that will be missing in the kingdom. It's not going to be tolerated. And so also we're going to see the curse remove. This whole world is going to blossom like a garden.
- [20:20]
Don Perkins
This is my hope, is that, will we get to go and explore all these planets? Will we get off planet during the millennial kingdom?
- [20:26]
Unknown Male Speaker
I mean, we'll have glorified immortal bodies. I mean, there's not going to be anything. We won't be hurt by anything.
- [20:31]
Don Perkins
We'll need spaceships or spaces, spacesuits.
- [20:34]
Unknown Male Speaker
We can go to the bottom of the deepest ocean if there's going to be ocean still at that time. We can go to outer space. You can sit on the rings of Saturn and just look out at the galaxy. I mean, so where we. I tell my kids all the time, you know, we play Minecraft a lot together. And you have two modes. You have survival mode, and you have creative mode. Survival mode. You have to eat, drink water. You have to. You can get hurt. You know, you have to take care of the guy because he's limited. But in creative mode, it's like God mode. You can do. You can go anywhere, you can go underwater. You can build a whole city underwater. You can go to, you know, do whatever. So, you know, we're not going to be limited by anything physical at that.
- [21:10]
Tim LaHaye
I do look forward to that as well. I love to travel. I love to explore and see new things and just the beauty and wonder of what God has created. Occasionally we get a taste of that with a beautiful sunrise or sunset or a rainbow. But in our glorified bodies, we'll see colors and things, taste flavors that we could never experience now and go places that we can only imagine.
- [21:31]
Unknown Male Speaker
Well, number one, the real hope that we have is the Lord Jesus Christ. Even in Talking about the rapture, Paul says we do not have to sorrow as those who have no hope. It doesn't mean that we don't sorrow as believers, but we know because Paul's talking about it when somebody dies. My mom just passed away recently. I'm going to see her again. She went blind a few years before she passed away, but she said to my dad just the day before she passed away, just like Fanny Crosby, the first person I'll see when I die thinking of the resurrection will be the face of the Lord Jesus Christ.
- [22:08]
Tim LaHaye
Amen.
- [22:09]
Unknown Male Speaker
And as a believer, I'll see her again. I will see my loved ones. Christ again. We have this great hope. We also have the hope of the rapture. We are. The time of the tribulation is God's wrath. We're not appointed to wrath. Jesus took the wrath of God upon himself so that we would not suffer the wrath of God, whether eternal or the tribulation period. And so we do have this great hope. And the one huge thing that needs to be conveyed a lot more in Bible prophecy circles, sticking with Bible is the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ that we must be forgiven of our sins. Jesus Christ came to die so that we could live. And he prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. He prayed and said, father, if there's any other way, let this cup pass from me. There was silence from the Father because there was no other way. He said, I am the way, the truth and life. Nobody comes through the Father except by me. We must trust Christ for the forgiveness of our sins.
- [23:11]
Don Perkins
And once all this craziness is done and we're in Christ's millennial kingdom, what part of it are you looking forward
- [23:16]
Unknown Male Speaker
to the most in the millennial kingdom? I'm looking forward to seeing Jesus the most.
- [23:21]
Don Perkins
Amen.
- [23:22]
Unknown Male Speaker
This blows me away to think we, the three of us and everybody else, we're going to see Jesus in person. We've all been to Israel, we've been to Jerusalem. But I remember talking about the Temple with you one time and the coming temple, how big it is going to be, and the glories of the millennial kingdom. But seeing Jesus, that blows my mind.
- [23:42]
Tim LaHaye
We'll close out our time together with Paul Wilkinson, the author of a brand new book titled the Beautiful Simplicity of the Rapture. He shares some very tender insights into the heart of our loving Savior, as well as what motivated God to plan the rapture of the church long before the beginning of time. Here now is Paul Wilkinson. We're here with our good friend Paul Wilkinson. All the way in from Great Britain, the United Kingdom. And Paul has been a guest already on Christ in Prophecy, talking about another book that blessed me. Paul, you've written more recently, one that Nathan is going to tell us about,
- [24:15]
Don Perkins
at least the title, the Beautiful Simplicity of the Rapture. I love that because people make the Rapture so complicated and it doesn't need to be. Tell us, what is your thesis for this book?
- [24:26]
Paul Wilkinson
So you hit the nail on the head. People make it complicated because Satan is trying to make it complicated for the believer. The title, the Beautiful Simplicity of the Rapture is because the doctrine of the Rapture is our blessed hope as believers. It's beautiful, it's a beautiful promise from our Lord Jesus. And of course Satan is going to be all over it. He's going to try and confuse, put believers in fear, create division, infighting, and we know all about that. But it's beautiful and it's simple. As every truth of God in His word is, it is simple because the Lord doesn't reveal his truth to an elite group. He wants every one of his children to understand him and his purposes and his plans for their lives. For us as a church, for Israel, for the world. It's not simplistic, but it's simple. Which means we should all be able to understand what the Rapture is, what our blessed hope is. But as we go through our life walking with the Lord, there's multi layers to this beautiful doctrine and you can go as deep as you want, you know.
- [25:38]
Don Perkins
Can you give us a real simple definition of the Rapture then?
- [25:42]
Paul Wilkinson
Yeah. Our Lord Jesus refers to himself as the heavenly bridegroom in John's Gospel and we are referred to as the bride. So our heavenly bridegroom is coming for his bride. And I think of John 17, that great high priestly prayer the Lord prayed before he went with his disciples to Gethsemane. He prays at the very end, father, I will that those whom you have given me will be with me when where I am and see me in my glory. That's our Lord, our Saviour, our Bridegroom, longing and saying to the Father, it is my desire, it is my will that my bride be with me and see me in my glory. And that's, you know, often we come at the Rapture from our perspective, but this book I believe is just trying to draw out from God's word, his perspective, how he feels about this glorious event.
- [26:39]
Tim LaHaye
I love what you said about it. So simple. Even here at a conference like the Pre True conference, many of the guys who come and present have studied, they are doctors or have advanced degrees in theology. And there are some great insights that they bring. But you don't have to have that. All you need is the word of God to open it and read it. And anyone who has the ability simply to read and read from a plain sense interpretation can understand that God sent His son. He so loved the world that was lost that he sent his son. And that His Son, for all who have put their trust in him, is coming again to bring us home to Himself, to the place he's prepared for us. It is that simple.
- [27:18]
Paul Wilkinson
Yeah. And how beautiful are the feet of him who brings good news. We know that the cross, the atoning sacrifice of our Lord Jesus is the greatest news. It is the good news. But for the believer who has come to the foot of the cross, who surrendered his or her life, then this is the good news that awaits us. That Jesus isn't leaving us as things are. He's coming to catch us away because he loves us that much and he wants us to be with Him.
- [27:47]
Tim LaHaye
If you would like to deepen your understanding of the return of Jesus Christ, pick up a copy of Paul's moving book. You will be blessed. We also hope you're leaving this episode. Excited about the Lord's soon return. You know we are. So until next time, look up. Be watchful for our Lord Jesus Christ is coming soon in the rapture. Godspeed.
- [28:20]
Unknown Female Speaker
It.