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- [00:04]
A
Welcome once again to Christ in Prophecy. I've come back to God's country, Kentucky specifically. I'm here at Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, Kentucky. Southeast Christian has a very special place both in my heart and in Nathan Jones. For me, this is the home of Pastor Bob Russell. For many years, he led this church to be a faithful proclaimer of the gospel and the biblical truth. And Bob remains a treasured mentor. And for Nathan Jones, this was the place where he served under Bob's leadership until he came to Lamb and Lion Ministries. And so today I've come here to Southeast Christian to reconnect with my friend Doug Cobb. Some of you will remember that three years ago, Doug was on the program to share about his book. And then the end will come. Talking about the outreach to people groups all around the world. And Doug is the founder of the Finishing Fund, a ministry that provides funding to ensure that the Gospel reaches people all around the world. And I think, Doug, at last count, you had touched over 800 people groups in 66 countries. So, Doug, I want to thank you for joining me again today on Christ in Prophecy.
- [01:04]
B
Tim, it is great to be with you. Thank you for having me.
- [01:06]
A
Well, it is a real blessing for me. And of course, I was thrilled to hear the message that you were proclaiming in your first book. We are going to touch on your second today. But let's reintroduce our viewers to your premise. And that was that we were on the cusp of reaching every people group in the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And you had said, as scripture references, and that once that occurs, Jesus said he will return. So tell us where we stand today.
- [01:29]
B
Well, the progress has just continued. It's actually accelerating and not just on people groups, but toward the other goals of the Great Commission as well. So, you know, I remain optimistic that we'll see the completion of this in our lifetimes, brother.
- [01:45]
A
Well, I remain optimistic as well. Not because there's been any slowdown in proclaiming the gospel. I just think there's been so many technical tools, so much technology today we can translate. And. And of course, there is a great passion. I think there is a fervor today as there was perhaps 150 years ago. But folks like you are really getting the word out, so to speak, the gospel word. But let's back up and actually unpack some of the terms. So for those who might be unfamiliar with the phrase people group, how does that relate to what scripture describes as tongues and tribes and nations?
- [02:16]
B
Yeah, Matthew 28:19, Jesus says go and make disciples of all nations. A nation is not a country, like we think about it, France or Germany or China. A nation is an ethnos, a people group, a group of people who share a common language, heritage, culture, geography, any number of identifying traits. The smart people who study these things say there's about 12,000 of these ethnos in the world and they're scattered everywhere. I mean, people live on every continent but Antarctica and you know, from the hottest places to the coldest places, the lowest places to the highest places. And you know, God scattered the nations in Genesis at Babel. We know about that. He did a good job of that. 12,000 people groups in the world. And Jesus told us to take the good news to every one of them.
- [03:04]
A
You know, it's interesting. God did scatter, and it seems that he was determined that there would not be complete unity lest mankind almost get too big for our britches. But that became an impediment at times to commerce and to engagement and. And yet the Lord was very instructive to say he wanted his gospel to go to every nation, tribe and tongue and therefore every people group. Well, Doug, you were sharing with me before we began recording some of the travels you've had lately. Catch us up on some of the progress that's been made in just the past three years.
- [03:32]
B
Yeah, I just got back day before Yesterday on a 10 day trip to Southeast Asia, to Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand. These are all Buddhist heritage countries. The Buddhism there is kind of a syncretic Buddhism with animism and ancestor worship. It's kind of a scrambled egg kind of thing. Vietnam, communist country. So that makes it tougher. But in all three of these countries, Tim, I saw the gospel just breaking out in amazing ways. You know, ministries are very strategically targeting the unreached places and sending workers there with the good news to meet people of peace and to lead them to Christ and to plant churches in the same way Jesus instructed his people to do in Luke chapter 10. You know, it's kind of everything old is new again, you know. But one thing I was able to see, for instance, was in rural Thailand, far from the big cities, a baptism service where 1,400 Buddhist background believers were baptized in one big service. It was a pretty amazing thing to see.
- [04:33]
A
Do you think there's sometimes an easier receptivity amongst those parts of the world that have been more isolated than even our own society? Sometimes I feel like people say, yeah, yeah, I've heard about that. They really haven't encountered the gospel, but they think they have. They've had just enough gospel light. I say they are almost inoculated in their hearts and minds. They become hardened. Whereas in those places it would seem that there is a real hunger and a recognition that what have I been handed down by my own ancestors is not really working. It is not truth. Do you see a difference in the reception in places like Southeast Asia and even here at home?
- [05:09]
B
Well, they don't have a preconceived notion about who Jesus is because many of them, maybe most, and that was in a place like Thailand, have never heard his name. So they don't have any idea who he is. They are very committed to their sort of cultural heritage and their religion is tied into that. We see some of the same thing in the United States, but maybe even more strongly than we see it here. And so when they hear about Jesus, often they're intrigued, but they are wondering what it's going to cost me if I decide to follow him. But one thing I will say, everywhere I've been in the world, God is preparing people of peace that he has chosen to receive the good news and be the first people in their people groups and their places to become followers of Jesus. So I think it's open everywhere because I think God has gone before us in every place.
- [05:54]
A
He certainly has. You know, even as we began recording today, we invited the Holy Spirit to be a part of our conversation, to go before us, even in our words and the dialogue we have, and to be able to touch hearts that are watching this program. And so the Holy Spirit goes before. I've just recently been rereading the Book of Acts and it talks about how Paul, along with various other partners, Barnabas at one point and later Silas would go out. And it struck me, for instance, in Thessalonica, we talk a lot about 1 and 2 Thessalonians as being a prophetic text. But he went to Thessalonica and he did not get a very good reception. He was actually driven out because people were opposed culturally and economically because the Gospel was threatening their livelihood when various servants would convert and they were no longer providing revenue. But in spite of the fact that there was some resistance, there were still believers in those places. And so Paul was faithful to go, and the Lord knew who would receive the word.
- [06:52]
B
Sometimes I think the Holy Spirit is standing in these places and tapping his foot and crossing his arms saying, where are you guys? I've got everything ready for you. Just if somebody will show up. I say in the new book, the Sprint to the Finish, that I think the most important word in the Great Commission is the first word, God. Because Jesus promised us that when we go, he will go with us. And he comes with all authority and power. And so when we go, amazing things happen. Until we go. Usually they don't.
- [07:17]
A
Well, how will they hear unless a preacher goes and preaches? Well, you bring up the point that we are going to talk about today, and that is your new book, the Sprint to the Finish. And so the gist of this is we are so very close, and we can't be lax about continuing the effort to proclaim the good news because the finish line is near. So let's touch back on some of those statistics. How many total people groups? How many? How close are we to reaching what would be the finish line to touching every tribe, tongue and nation?
- [07:41]
B
In this book, I talk about three great commission finish lines. I say every nation, Matthew 28:19, every place, Acts 18, Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, the ends of the earth, and every language. Revelation 7. John has a vision of people around the throne from every language. And in all three of those finish lines, all three of those metrics, we are racing toward the end. Out of 12,000 people groups, I believe that we're down well under 100, maybe as few as 25 that don't have an active gospel effort underway. The ones that are left are very difficult and the going is slow right now, but we're very, very close. The folks who work on Bible translation believe they will have the Bible in every active language on the earth by the end of 2033. Amazing to think about that and the progress that's being made even daily on that. And then I'm part of a great effort called the Achieve Alliance. Achieve is a church in every village, everywhere, a great acronym that is aiming to see a church planted in every place where people live on the planet no later than 2050, but hopefully sooner than that. It's a little challenging because we don't know quite yet how many unchurched villages there are even. It's not a clear number, but we're working very hard to figure that out. And as I saw on this trip already, progress is being made to go and plant churches in these unreached places.
- [09:05]
A
Do you find that some of the technological tools. So we talk about the translators, even on your phone, you can walk around speaking to your phone and it can pronounce a different language for the hearer. I mean, this is almost like Star Trek days, you know, Is that a tool, an advantage that is tremendously powerful or does it still take the hard work of sitting and translating? I know some of these groups may not even have a written language per se, but, but to get the communication across both.
- [09:30]
B
And there's still a lot of hard labor involved. Somebody still has to go to these places and engage with people, meet them and tell them about Jesus. But we have such technological blessings that even people 100 years ago could not imagine. I mean, literally, I got on an airplane in rural Thailand on Tuesday afternoon in Thailand time and was home in Louisville, Kentucky on Wednesday afternoon. Louisville, Kentucky time that would have been unimaginable. Imagine at an Iram Judson, you know, that, you know, you could be anywhere in the world in 24 hours. On the trip, I had a five hour car ride with a Thai pastor who barely spoke English. We both had our phones out with Google Translate and we were talking to each other back and forth. I would say something, it would translate, he would read that, I would, you know, so we do have amazing technological
- [10:22]
A
advantages, amazing technology, and yet it still requires, as you said, that operative word goes. And sometimes, you know, there are folks who may be watching this program today who are inspired to go, whether it is to Southeast Asia, Vietnam, Thailand, or there may be others whose call and charge the Holy Spirit is laying on their heart is to go across the street. Because today we have people who have come to our own country from some of these other tribes, tongues and nations. And we are not going to get into the political circumstance of what's happening with immigration. But the point is there are lost people who are all around us. All it requires is that a believer go following the instruction of the Holy Spirit. I'm reminded of Philip, who was told to go because there was going to be a man he would encounter on the road, and he went and spoke with the Ethiopian eunuch. So go. That's an operative word.
- [11:08]
B
I think my favorite chapter in the book, chapter 10, is called the Great Coming. And it talks about how God has brought this enormous wave of people from unreached places in the world right to our backyard. Syrians, Afghans, Southeast Asians, Indians. Most cities have populations of these people. So, you know, it's politically and economically complicated, but spiritually it's such a huge opportunity. We can go without even having to get on an airplane. Just get in your car and drive 15 minutes across town and you can be ministering to people who have never heard of Jesus, who have no idea who he is. And you can be the person to help bring them to the faith.
- [11:45]
A
Let's touch on One aspect because a clear and obvious blessing to the person who hears the gospel for the first time, whose heart has been prepared by the Holy Spirit, and then receives the gospel and embraces Christ as Savior. But talk for a moment about the blessing you get for being the one who goes. For being the one who shares, for being the one who sees someone embrace Christ for the first time.
- [12:08]
B
Yeah, you know, in my job, I don't go very much. I went on this trip, but I don't live overseas. I still live at home. We get to fund a lot of folks who go. But I just. I can't explain to you the joy I feel when I hear the story of the first person in the history of the world in a people group to follow Jesus. Literally the very first one. And you just think about a room that is completely dark, where there's no light at all, and suddenly somebody lights a candle for the first time, you know, and that's what that person's life represents. Now, the gospel has a foothold in that place, and it can begin to spread through that person's family and relational network. But, you know, that's happened 11,000 some odd times in the history of the world. The first person, we read about it in the Book of Acts. It's still happening today, but not many more times, I hope, you know, we'll be done. We'll have seen the first believer. In every people group, you think about
- [12:57]
A
Peter being called and going and sharing with Cornelius and his family and how it must have thrilled Peter's heart. Now, there was some pushback, even amongst the Jews, but he said, do you realize the Lord is no respecter of persons? And now the Gentiles have heard the Gospel and. And what a joy Peter must have felt to be that person. Well, let's go back to basics for just a minute. When it comes to the Great Commission, I'm reminded of Vince Lombardi. Some of you all may remember great coach Lombardi, who would begin his football season every year, the training, by saying, gentlemen, this is a football. Let's go all the way back to basics. So when it comes to the Great Commission, I will tell you, something struck me in your book, and that was the fact that even on your introduction, you write that it appears in all four gospels and acts of the Great Commission. But today, only 51% of American churchgoers had even heard of the Great Commission, and only 17% of people who are in church regularly can explain what it means. Now, I got to tell you, my own church, we close out every Service every Sunday by reading the Great Commission aloud. Every child knows it by heart. They even read the text and the ESV at the end. But that is a shocking and that's very alarming statistics. So let's go back to basics. What is the Great Commission?
- [14:11]
B
Well, the Great Commission, simplest way to say it is, it's Jesus command to take the good news to the whole world. And he gave us three different ways, at least three different ways to think about what he meant by the whole world. We talked about that. Every nation, every language, every place, those three things all overlap with each other and interlock. And this is what God does in the scriptures for us when he wants to make sure we get something, we don't miss it. He'll tell us multiple times in slightly different ways. Right. But all three of those things describe the entire world. God's plan is to unify the entire world in the church under the headship of Christ. And that's what he's called us to make happen by going to every nation, every language, every place.
- [14:52]
A
Exactly right. You know, I think it is again, we've talked about the word go, but making disciples, there would be some who might even be watching this today and saying, well, do you have to give up? You mentioned the culture of Southeast Asia. Do you have to give up your culture? Do you have to give up your identity? And my answer is yes and no. Because I am no longer primarily loyal to some kind of other group. I am a citizen of heaven, I am a member of the church. And so it transcends is the best way, all of those other loyalties that are man made. But really it gives me an identity that is far superior to. So I have brothers and sisters in Christ who are from other cultures who speak other languages and still have all the beauty and dare I say, diversity that God has provided amongst all those people groups. And yet it becomes like a multifaceted, beautiful gem that the Lord sees with all those different backgrounds reflected in one unified church.
- [15:51]
B
Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Tim. You know, imagine what it's going to be like when we're all gathered around the throne on that day and all of us singing and worshiping in our own languages and our own styles. Somehow that's going to assemble into an unbelievable symphony. One thing I think about, you know, I've just come back, I've eaten quite a lot of different food on this trip. You know, every culture has its own favorites foods. I'm a meat and potatoes guy, right. I'm a classic American man. And you know, we're going to sit at the wedding feast of the lamb and the world. Word tells us that he's going to serve us. And I just sometimes like to try to imagine the diversity of the food that will be around that table. And oh man, my friend Daniel from Nigeria, his favorite food is a thing called pounded yam. I can hardly eat it, but I'm sure Jesus is going to serve that to him. And I'm going to get my T bone with a baked potato. But all that diversity combines into just a beautiful, really diverse worship for this God who has made this huge world with all of these different people.
- [16:50]
A
Maybe they'll have Kentucky Hot brown there at the Heavenly feast. If you don't know what Kentucky Hot round is, let me just tell you folks, when we get to heaven, you'll find out. You can look it up. It's wonderful. There will be no heart attacks in heaven. You know, you mentioned the worship. I think that's a beautiful analogy because I enjoy singing. And you think of a choir, you have sopranos, you have altos, you have tenors, bass, and sometimes even more parts than that. If everyone sang with the same exact tone, the same exact note, it's a monotone. And let's face it, a lot of churches now have moved away from parts singing. But, but the beauty of multiple parts in a choir expresses great joy and worship to the Lord in a beautiful way that is unique. And I think you said something that really touched the nerve. All these different peoples. It's like having all those different parts but joined together in worship. I think it will be a beautiful thing, not only for the Lord to be glorified, but for us to be participating in.
- [17:46]
B
And I can't wait.
- [17:47]
A
No, I can't wait either, as you well know. Well, there's another aspect of the commission in addition to going, in addition to proclaiming the gospel, the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus also says that we should make disciples and teach them to obey. So how do you think we're doing on those two notes when so many self professing believers in our own society seem to be arguably failing on both counts. In other words, making disciples and teaching to obey, let alone obeying ourselves.
- [18:18]
B
I'm not sure we're great at it in the United States. We almost sort of assume it away, you know, that it's just something that people will figure out for themselves. You know, our church is trying to do some things to increase that. You know, we did a 21 days of prayer and fasting, you know, so we're teaching people about those spiritual disciplines. That's really great. One of the things I saw on this trip, Tim, was how these house church movements move immediately from evangelism into disciple making. And they have a formal process of gathering, looking at God's word, talking about what it says, and then putting it into practice, holding people accountable. What did you do this week from what we studied last week? Right. One of the things that's a part of that is sharing your faith. All a critical component of these church planting movements is that as soon as you meet Jesus, as soon as you followed him, you begin to tell other people about him. You don't know much. You can't explain the Trinity to him. Right. You don't know about all the mysteries of the faith, but you know, you've met Jesus and that he has changed your heart and you want to immediately invite other people into that when that happens. And it's happening in a lot of places that can propel the gospel in a powerful way because you have very rapid transmission of the message. Not Western missionaries sharing it or somebody standing up on a stage, but just relationally, hey, let me tell you, I met Jesus. Who's Jesus? Let me tell you about him. Right? And so it's pretty amazing to see how these movements build that discipleship component in right at the beginning.
- [19:45]
A
I think it's so important. And even as you said, you have gone and visited, and I know many people who have gone on what are called short term mission trips. I think that the power of that long term organic engagement for real discipleship is so valuable, which is why once the gospel has been shared with every nation, tribe and tongue, every people group, to have individuals within that group who are able to be the pastor. When Paul left the city, he left behind elders or pastors, and they continued to proclaim from the word of God to the people of God that would be drawn in that society. I think there's something very important about engaging those local missionaries who are just, you know, inherent within that society.
- [20:27]
B
One thing that most Americans don't understand today is that, you know, the majority of this last mile is being run by our brothers and sisters who live in other parts of the world. So wherever I was on this trip in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, it was Vietnamese who were taking the gospel to the Vietnamese, Cambodians to Cambodians, Thais to Thais. And, you know, they have such an advantage in doing that. They're culturally connected with them. They have language, you know, similarity, if not speaking the same language. And so it's not so much, you know, America and Europe sending missionaries anymore. It's now the whole church and the whole world engaging in this Great Commission process.
- [21:02]
A
It certainly is. You know, one of the things that jumped out at me, even in your book, and it was just a wonderful point. Page 262, you talked about how Jesus commanded that we as believers, and this is not only in our daily walk with the Lord, but this is in our outreach, in our determination to go. He said that we should be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. And he said, but it is my conviction that what Jesus meant, or that Jesus meant what he said, that he wants us to be the ones to make disciples of all nations. So Here is a $64,000 question. We don't have that much time, per se, but can we be perfect? The Father is absolutely perfect. How can we aspire to that? Or is this an aspirational verse that really gives us a target that if you're aiming for, at least you will get closer and closer to the mark?
- [21:48]
B
Well, I think, again, both and. Right. You know, we should aim for it. Absolutely. And strive for it. We're all going to fall short of it because we still have that sinful nature. He's working to sanctify us, and we're getting closer and closer. And then one day we'll get new bodies, we'll be resurrected, and that will be completely true about us. Right. So as we approach the return of Jesus, I hope, I believe, you know, we want to really be focused on being ready to meet him, to be, you know, the pure, holy, spotless bride that he's promised, we will be.
- [22:17]
A
Amen. Why do you think if the Lord could have just sent out the Holy Spirit and touched hearts, if people could have visions and dreams, and we know some are, in some societies, we hear about that in the end times, we are told there will be a gospel angel that circumnavigates the globe proclaiming the gospel. Why did he decide to use such poor vessels and poor mouthpieces as the likes of me to get this word out?
- [22:42]
B
You wonder if there was debate around the council of the throne in heaven. God, really, you want to do it that way? You want to trust these knuckleheads to get that job done? Right? Well, I think he did it because it builds our faith when we go and see what he can do. I mean, I came back from this trip just incredibly pumped about, you know, God and the mission. You know, he can do anything and he is doing amazing things. I think it's mainly because he loves us, Tim. You know, he's doing this incredible thing, and he has intentionally decided to share that with us. And I'm like, I can't believe I get to be a part of this. Like, you know, he could have done a lot better, a lot faster if he just left us out and just said, watch me, I'll do it. But he loves us like little children, and he wants us to be part of what he's doing.
- [23:25]
A
You know, that's another great analogy. I've gotten to the point that at Christmas, there's no gift I need or even really want, but what I truly enjoy is watching not just my children, they're grown, but now my grandchildren at Christmas, and the joy and just the delight that they have, not only in gifts, but in the time together. And I think the Lord wants us to have that kind of experience. He could have done it all himself, but to see us have the delight of sharing the news and getting to be a part, it's like having your son. You know, I could have built the project, but instead I'm allowing my son to join me. And to see him achieve something I could have done perhaps quicker. But now he's doing that brings real joy to me, and it raises him up. Him being my son, my daughters, my children. And the same thing the Lord wants to give us opportunity because it brings joy to his heart and he sees the delight we have, just as you just shared. All right, let's get to a bottom line here. You have keyed, and you mentioned it earlier on Matthew 24:14 to emphasize that Jesus has delayed his coming for his church at the glorious event we know as the Rapture until the Gospel of the Kingdom is preached to the whole world. Now, I could add Mark 13:10 recently in my reading, which says the Gospel must first be preached to all the nations. How does that align with our belief that Jesus is coming in an imminent way? In other words, the Rapture could happen today, tomorrow. He. It could have already happened. But we have also had this expectation for 2000 years, and yet we still are sprinting to the finish in terms of reaching those groups.
- [24:56]
B
Well, so Jesus gave us these three goals. Every nation, every place, every language, but he didn't leave us a list of any of those things. Right. And so we do our best to figure out what he meant by that. Every nation, different surveys come up with different answers to that question. How many languages are there actually? How many places we talked about about that so even as we're striving toward these finish lines, we. We don't really know how close we are to them. Right. We can think we're close, maybe we're further. We think maybe we're closer than we think. You know, he knows when the task will be complete. One day the last Gentile is going to come into the church. The church is going to be complete. And when that happens, the church age will end. He'll take us out and, you know, the events of the last days will. Will begin. But, you know, I think until that time, his Instructions in Matthew 24 and 25 are our job and is to be hard at work until he shows up. He wants to come and find us working. And so my determination for myself and many of the people that we support is that's what we're going to do. We're going to keep working until he tells us we're done.
- [25:56]
A
Obviously, there are some who would deride our position of expecting the Lord's coming to be soon, the Rapture. And they say, well, y' all are just escapists. No, that is a motivator to get to work, because that is our charge. We don't have all the time in the world. And so we need to be intentional right now about serving the Lord as he told us, by going and sharing the gospel with all the tribes, tongues and peoples of the world. Well, Doug, obviously we are going to make your book available, the Sprint to the Finish through Lamb and Lion Ministries. And so you can get a copy. I hope that you will call the number on the screen. We will tell you a little bit more about that in just a moment. But how can people connect and follow up with what you are doing and even support the work of the Finishing Fund?
- [26:35]
B
Yeah, you can learn more about the finishing fund@finishingfund.org that is our website. You can learn more about the book@sprintbook.net sprintbook.net and so happy to talk to anybody who'd be interested in learning more about either of those things.
- [26:49]
A
Fantastic. Well, I know that you serve as an elder here at Southeast Christian. You teach a word by word Sunday school class, and you are fully engaged in doing exactly what the Lord has called you to do. And for that I am grateful, sir.
- [27:02]
B
Well, brother, thank you for what you guys do at Lamb and Lion and for your grace in helping us to get the word out about the book.
- [27:07]
A
Well, thank you for joining me today. Please pass along my appreciation to all the leadership here at Southeast Christian, to Mitch and the team who have supported us in making this recording and so Godspeed.
- [27:17]
B
Thank you.
- [27:18]
A
Well folks, as Doug shared today, the fields are white unto harvest, just as Jesus said in John 4:35. And in a few remaining instances, that means that people groups scattered all over the world have yet to hear the gospel. But sometimes those people groups, those individuals who need the gospel of Jesus Christ, are as near as your next door. I hope that this great blessing we have collectively to share the good news is will be yours personally and individually. As you share the gospel with someone who does not yet know the Lord, you can receive the blessing of joy, they can receive the blessing of eternal life, and we can defeat the enemy who does not want anyone to come to salvation in Jesus Christ. So with all that in mind, I pray that my conversation with Doug Cobb has been both a blessing and a challenge to you. And I hope that, like me, you are motivated to sprint to the finish. Until next week, this is Tim Moore from God's country of Kentucky saying Godspeed.