Billie Jean King: tennis, activism, and the fight for equality

Summary

Podcast Summary: Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files

Episode: Billie Jean King: tennis, activism, and the fight for equality
Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Christiane Amanpour
Guest: Billie Jean King

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Episode Overview

This special episode is an insightful, energetic conversation between Christiane Amanpour and tennis legend Billie Jean King, focusing on King’s extraordinary career on and off the court. The discussion navigates the evolution of tennis, King’s lifelong activism for gender equality, her reflections on history and leadership, mental toughness under pressure, and the significance of her forthcoming documentary premiering at Sundance. The episode is both a celebration of King’s legacy and a candid look at the challenges surrounding activism, sports, and equality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Living Power of History

• King's Passion for History:

  • "The more you know about history, the more you know about yourself. But more importantly, you get to really shape the future." (00:02, 05:15)
  • King emphasizes how knowledge of history is vital not just for personal identity but also for creating change, especially urging young people to see history as something living and dynamic.

• Foundation for Leadership:

  • King credits her study of history with giving her the vision and leadership skills to advance equality within tennis.

2. Fighting for Equality in Tennis

• Achieving Equal Prize Money:

  • King details how, in 1972, she declared women wouldn't return to the US Open without equal prize money and then secured sponsorship herself.
  • "After I said that, I go, oh, my gosh, that’s hardball." (06:37)
  • "If I can bring money to the table, it changed everything." (06:56)

• Gender, Opportunity, and Social Change:

  • King discusses the historical “Battle of the Sexes” against Bobby Riggs as a cultural event that promoted gender equality beyond the tennis court.
  • She underscores that women never claimed to be stronger than men but wanted equal respect, opportunity, and entertainment value.
  • "We said from day one... we know we're not as good as the men, but we talk about entertainment value. It’s inclusive, all the good things in life." (08:00)

• Legacy of Title IX:

  • The victory over Riggs coincided with Title IX's passage, broadening opportunities in education and sports for women, and laid groundwork for future generations.
  • "The reason you can talk about women's sports throughout the world... is because of Title IX." (10:45)

3. Leadership Sacrifices and Perspective

• Sacrificing for the Movement:

  • King candidly reflects on forgoing Grand Slam chances to build the women’s tour and advance the game for future players.
  • "We were willing to give up... titles to make women’s professional tennis what it is today." (12:57)

• Pressure as Privilege:

  • King has long advocated for reframing competitive anxiety as opportunity:
  • "Pressure is a privilege. Very few people are in those pressure situations… It’s a privilege to be in that position." (03:39, 18:03)

4. The Demands and Evolution of Modern Tennis

• Modern vs. Past Conditions:
  • The conversation contrasts the demanding schedules, support systems, and financial rewards of today’s players with King’s era.
  • "We couldn’t even afford a coach." (15:29)
  • King played a key role in introducing health services for players, despite initial reluctance among peers.
  • "Now, of course, our health services is run by Kathleen Stroy, is one of the best in the world." (17:24)

5. Mindset and Wellbeing in the Professional Game

• Mental Resilience:

  • King offers practical advice:
    • "You can only think one thing at a time… So if you can just calm down, meditate a little bit... you want to be with the ball the whole time." (18:03)

• Legacy of Learning from the Past:

  • She urges players to seek wisdom from past champions, crediting figures like Alice Marble and Don Budge for shaping her own approach.
  • "I think the players make a huge mistake not talking to the players of the past." (19:56)

6. Overcoming Stereotypes & Championing Diversity

• Challenging Stereotypes:

  • Wearing glasses or different hairstyles, King turned perceived weaknesses into motivating strengths to inspire others.
  • "If I can make it wearing glasses, that I think it'll help others that have to wear them as well." (22:05)

• Subtle Activism:

  • She recounts donning an Afro in 1977 to support the "black is beautiful" message and her camaraderie with Arthur Ashe.
  • "These two Afros are dancing… Arthur, I go, yours is real. Mine's not. Mine's a perm." (22:51)

7. Documentary & Storytelling

• Premiere at Sundance:

  • King’s upcoming documentary, directed by Liz Garbus and Elizabeth Wolf, is described as an authentic, revealing portrait using archival footage King herself had never seen.
  • "I laid it out there. It was difficult to do, but… it’s more truthful. I think a movie is more like a story… this one is. I laid it out there." (23:51)

• Importance of Autobiographical Narratives:

  • King stresses the need for future generations to "hear her words, how I say it, see my expressions." (23:51)

8. Adapting and Learning—On Court and In Life

• Champions Adjust:
  • King defines champions not just by how they handle setbacks in play, but how they respond to life’s changes, drawing lessons from competition and relationships.
  • "You just keep learning from your experiences… so you can get better as a human being, not just on the court, but off the court." (27:03)

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Pressure:

  • "Pressure is a privilege. Very few people are in those pressure situations, like how many people get to a final of a Wimbledon?"
    — Billie Jean King (18:03)

• On Gender Equality:

  • "When one person wins, everybody wins… we want everyone to have a chance to be the best they can be."
    — Billie Jean King (10:45)

• On Sacrifice for Progress:

  • "We were willing to give up… titles to make women’s professional tennis what it is today. If I were a young person today, I’d be playing the Australian every year… But we had to make some very hard decisions and we wanted to do it for the future generations and they are living our dream now."
    — Billie Jean King (12:57)

• On Champion Mindsets:

  • "Champions adjust—not just when you're having trouble in your game, but in every walk of life."
    — Christiane Amanpour, summarizing BJK (26:45)

• On Seeking Wisdom:

  • "I think the players make a huge mistake not talking to the players of the past."
    — Billie Jean King (19:56)

• On Representation:

  • "If I can make it wearing glasses... I think it'll help others that have to wear them as well. And I want to make it cool, make it great for them."
    — Billie Jean King (22:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |--------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:02–05:15 | King’s introduction, her love of history, and entry into tennis | | 06:35–07:18 | Equal prize money and challenging the tennis establishment | | 07:27–11:12 | "Battle of the Sexes" reflections, impact of Title IX, and activism | | 12:57–13:47 | Giving up championship titles for equality and the women's tour | | 14:39–16:03 | Modern tennis—financial rewards, pressures, differences from the past | | 18:03–19:49 | Mental resilience, playing under pressure, and advice for players | | 19:56–22:05 | Importance of learning from older players, stereotypes, and self-belief | | 22:49–23:51 | The symbolic power of appearance (Glasses, Afro), representation | | 23:51–26:45 | Documentary at Sundance; value of autobiographical truth | | 27:03–28:36 | Champions adjust—lessons applied on court and in life | | 29:22–31:23 | Recommendations: exercise, health, aging, and the discipline of routines |

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Recommendations Segment

• Billie Jean King:

  • Advocates setting a goal of at least 150 minutes of exercise per week, including vigorous activity and strength training:
    • "My health is really important, especially at 82… Half of those 150 minutes have to be vigorous." (29:40)
    • Emphasizes balance, resistance, and tracking progress—practices what she preaches.

• Christiane Amanpour:

  • Recommends the feature film “Battle of the Sexes” starring Emma Stone as Billie Jean King, praising its storytelling and depth beyond tennis.
    • "It's much more than a tennis match. It's really a great drama." (31:39)

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Final Reflections

The episode presents Billie Jean King as both a living icon and a tireless advocate, whose influence transcends the court. Listeners receive an engaging, humorous, and honest look at what it takes to be a true champion: resilience, historical wisdom, willingness to sacrifice, and the determination to ensure equality for those who follow.

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For more episodes, find "Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files" on Global Player, YouTube, or your preferred podcast app.

Transcript

[Billie Jean King]

This is a Global Player original podcast. I love history. I already read all the history I could on tennis. So I think the more you know about history, the more you know about yourself. But more importantly, you get to really shape the future. And that's why I want young people to like history, not think of it as something that's dead. It's actually living.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Well, you created the history, let's face it, because certainly for the women and for the whole game, you talked about equal prize money. I mean, that's you.

[Billie Jean King]

72 is when I told the media that we probably won't come back next year if we don't get equal prize money. After I said that, I go, oh, my gosh, that's hardball.

[Christiane Amanpour]

That's Trumpian. And you won.

[Billie Jean King]

I walked into the meeting with Bobby and Perenchio and the promoter, and I just said, I want to play 3 out of 5 like the guys do, and I want to play on a court. I don't want any changes of anything. Let's just play. Pressure is a privilege. Think how many people get to a final of a Wimbledon. How many people get to a final of an Australian. It's a privilege to be in that position. I thrived on it. I liked it.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Hello, everyone. It's Christiana Manpour in London with the X Files, although this time it's me and a very special guest, Billie Jean King, 82 years old now, but still going strong. She still plays a little bit of tennis, but she's still really carving out the niche for women players to make this a much more equal game. And she's still got so much energy. You know, she won 39 Grand Slams in her career, but she always said that she could have won more if she hadn't paid so much attention to her work off court, trying and successfully forging the way for so many women who are playing now and who will continue to play to give them equal pay and equal rights in the domain of tennis and. And much more broadly as well. So how does she look back on her long fight for equality, both in sport and in society? I'm also going to ask her about the upcoming documentary on her life, which will be premiering at Sundance this very week. And you'll hear our recommend at the end of the episode. Hi. Billie Jean King. You're in New York. How are you?

[Billie Jean King]

I'm great, Christiane. You look great.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Thank you. And I, as we talk, I'm embarking on my first ever visit to Australia, and it's because of the Australian Open. As you know, I'm a massive tennis fan, and we've known each other for, you know, since 2008. And I've seen a lot of tennis through your eyes. And I'm so thrilled about all of this because I've learned a lot. Not just. Just about tennis, but about leadership and about all the things that you've done over the last many, many decades. And tennis is having a massive. I mean, look, it's always been incredible, but I feel like everything is tennis these days. It's just so front and center. You know, there's the tennis leisureware, there's the tennis tchotchkes. Not just the players and the Grand Slams, but there's, you know, exhibition matches. They're just all over the place. Suddenly tennis, maybe suddenly is maybe not the right word, but it's so up there, like the NBA or the NFL.

[Billie Jean King]

Oh, it's huge. And what people have to understand, we've been global forever, since the 1800s. And also, men and women get equal prize money at the majors, like at the Australian. And so it's really great for everyone. And that's why I love it, too. It's just inclusive. It's just any country can have a champion. I love all that.

[Christiane Amanpour]

I love to play tennis as well. And I'm just a, you know, not even a club player, but I really enjoy it.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, you know, it's the healthiest sport in the world.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Well, I think it is.

[Billie Jean King]

I think there's all kinds of research now, and people need to know that.

[Christiane Amanpour]

In what way?

[Billie Jean King]

Almost 10 years longer.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Really?

[Billie Jean King]

Yes. So keep playing. Wow.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Okay. Is that why you are so healthy and sprightly? How old are you? Just two months ago, you had a. What, birthday?

[Billie Jean King]

I'm 82 now, and I feel fantastic.

[Christiane Amanpour]

I mean, seriously. And you still have the passion and the love. And I heard you recently talking about even how much you grew up loving just the ball. You and your brother love the ball. Tell me about that. I just. It's so cool.

[Billie Jean King]

It was our third word. Mommy, daddy, or mama, dadda, whatever. And then the third word was ball. And I used to go, ball, ball, ball, mommy, ball, daddy. And whether they rolled it, we could kick it, or whether we could catch it. And then my dad was really good about teaching us technique. Oh, my gosh. It was. We're just crazy about it. And of course, you know, Randall James Moffat, Moffat's our birth name, went on to play 12 years of professional baseball, which in America is a huge deal. And of course, I wanted to be number one in the World. From the time I hit the first ball, Susan Williams said, do you want to play tennis? In fifth grade? And I said, what's tennis? And so she took me out to play. And then I started going to the rec. To the rec park with Clyde Walker. And I knew. I knew immediately, I want to be number one in the world. It's just fascinating. I'm just fascinated.

[Christiane Amanpour]

I mean, listen, when you said to your mom and dad, I'm going to be the number one in the world, did they think you were bonkers? I mean, what was tennis? I mean, tennis was, by and large, a white person's. Mostly men. Mostly, I guess, people of means and money. What did they say? Because you grew up fairly modestly in California. What did they say?

[Billie Jean King]

My dad was a firefighter. And they said, well, okay. But I was also playing softball. And my softball coach said, we have free magic word instruction here with Clyde Walker every Tuesday at the park. It's Houghton Park. And I said, now we're talking. So the first time I went out to see Clyde, that's when I decided it was only the second time I'd ever hit a ball. And I knew I wanted to be number one. But you have to. I love history. I'd already read all the history I could on tennis. So I think the more you know about history, the more you know about yourself. But more importantly, you get to really shape the future. And that's why I want young people to like history, not think of it as something that's dead. It's actually living. And so I think it's really important. And knowing the history also helped me with leadership later on. I mean, I had a vision at 12. I wanted us to be pros, not amateurs, you know, even though we're the best in the world. And I mean, the men and the women, not just women. And so I had this. I knew what I wanted, and I could see how the game could be and the sport could be. And it's global now, and it's prize money, and it's all the things I was dreaming about.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Well, you created the history, let's face it. Because certainly for the women and for the whole game, you talked about equal prize money. I mean, that's you. You're the one who first got equal prize money. It started, I think, at the US Open in 1972.

[Billie Jean King]

No, in 73.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Sorry, in 73.

[Billie Jean King]

No, you're right, though. You're absolutely right, because 72 is when I told the media that we probably won't come back next year if we don't get equal prize money. And that was. I can't tell you. After I said that, I go, oh, my gosh, that's hardball.

[Christiane Amanpour]

That's Trumpian. And you won.

[Billie Jean King]

We did. We got. Very fortunate. But I went out and got a sponsor because I knew that's what they would want. And if I can bring money to the table, it changed everything. I talked to Billy Talbot, who was a tournament director at the time.

[Christiane Amanpour]

But it's pretty amazing. I mean, you negotiated and used your leverage and you refused to back down. I think that's very rare, certainly for women at that age. Right. And at that stage.

[Billie Jean King]

Yes, back then. Oh, never heard of that. Really?

[Christiane Amanpour]

So let me quickly.

[Billie Jean King]

I didn't care. I just was gonna go for it. You know, I'm a net player. Serve, volley, go to net. Let's do it.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You know what that brings me to today? The Australian Nick Kyrgios and the Belarussian Aren Sabalenka did a battle of the sexes. Now, I'm gonna in a minute ask you about yours, but you made history. You beat Bobby riggs back in 70. Tell me again. 72, 73. 73, yeah. I mean, no, I do, but I just keep getting 72 and 72.

[Billie Jean King]

September 20, 1973, in the Houston Astrodome.

[Christiane Amanpour]

So what did you make of them trying to do this as an exhibition match this year?

[Billie Jean King]

Well, I don't think they should have called it battle the sexes maybe. I don't know. The only thing that was the same as ours was with a boy versus a girl or a woman versus a male. That was the only thing that was the same. Ours was really a cultural phenomena. We had over 90 million people watch worldwide. The winner take all was 100,000. I'm sure if they played in Middle east, you can imagine the check they got. No, it's just not the same. I mean, another thing people have to understand, the women have never said we're better than the men. They're born differently, they have bigger skeletal systems, they have a bigger heart. We have never had that argument. I don't know why people keep bringing it up. Because we said from the day one, back when we were changing tennis to pro, that we know we're not as good as the men, but we talk about entertainment value. It's inclusive, all the good things in life. But I always get a kick out of her when they keep bringing it up. I'm like, why are you bringing it up? We're not as good as the guys.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Well, yeah, that's true. But in terms of strength. But you were playing a best of five with Bobby Riggs. It wasn't a. You happened to win in three straight sets.

[Billie Jean King]

You're right. We played regular. I walked into the meeting with Bobby and Perenchio and the promoter and all these things, and I just said, I want to play 3 out of 5 like the guys do, and I want to play on a court. I don't want any. No changes of anything. Let's just play. And Bobby was 55, as old as my dad and I, you know, he was one of my heroes. He was a former number one player in the world. And he got cheated because World War II. He won a Triple Crown in 1939. And then the war broke out, so he lost a lot of opportunities to win titles. So I really admired him. And he's also in the business. He helped Jack Kramer with his contract pro tour. So I really liked him a lot. I knew a lot about him. He knew nothing about me, which I thought would probably be the case. And. Yeah, so I just said. And I told him, I love pressure, so let's go. And I knew it was about social change. I mean, in the United States, Title IX had just been passed in 1972, where women. We had. We opened up the quotas in classrooms and colleges for the first time. Before that, we're like, at 5% a lot of times of the classroom. And also the first time that women got athletic scholarships ever. The reason you can talk about women's sports throughout the world, whether it be football, soccer, whatever country you're from, or whether it's any of these sports, it's basketball, it's because of Title nine. That was the first time girls got scholarships to college. And the sports, they got proper coaching from the coaches. They got. They had, you know, a league, everything you're supposed to have. That's the reason I wanted to win desperately. And women couldn't get a credit card on their own. You know, all these things we're trying to change and make it better for women and make it better for everyone, because when one person wins, everybody wins. And that's what. A lot of times people. They get into the gender thing too much. Just, we're people. We want everyone to have a chance to be the best they can be.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Do you think the Sabalenko Kyrgios thing set that back? Made it a bit of a. Like a niche thing, or it's just a nothing burger?

[Billie Jean King]

No, I think people knew what it was, and I think it's good anytime they can see tenants okay, I'm, I'm all for.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Unfortunately she lost, but I guess that was. Well, I. Yeah, yeah.

[Billie Jean King]

Curiosa's ranking is terrible. Because he hasn't been able to play. Yeah, because he's been hurt. But believe me, he's, he could have been an all time great. I think because he's at his. The physical blessings he's been born with is amazing, but it just didn't go right. His mind isn't strong enough to be okay.

[Christiane Amanpour]

So that's really interesting. And when we take a break and come back, I want to talk about the mind. Because every lesson I take, my coaches tell me it's not just about the forehand and the eye on the ball. It's about the mind playing smart and playing strong. And you've always said pressure is a privilege. But before we go to a break, I just want to ask you this because I think you've said it before and I still find it extraordinary. You won 39 Grand Slams, but you've often said that you could have won more because at the height of your playing prowess, you chose to also be the leader of social change, political change in terms of sports and equality, and do everything you did to make it an equal game for women and men. And I wonder whether there's any time that you regret that. Not that, because the achievement was monumental and you'll go down in history. But do the numbers matter? You know, you see people now staying out there trying at the, you know, you know, sort of very older spectrum, trying to get yet another Grand Slam and make a record.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, first of all, when we started professional tennis, I didn't go to Australia for 11 years at the height of my playing, because we had started a tour and we felt it was more important to have a tour we didn't have. I asked the players, if you could only play the four majors a year, would you do that or would you rather have a tour or what would you rather have? Well, we'd rather have both, I said, obviously. And so we were willing to give up Martina, Chris, a lot of us gave up titles to make women's professional tennis what it is today. If I were a young person today, I'd be playing the Australian every year. Are you kidding? It's fantastic. And I'd be playing all the majors. But we had to make some very hard decisions and we wanted to do it for the future generations and they are living our dream now.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Well, that's a good place to take a break. And we're going to come back and Continue the conversation. Okay, so we're back. It's me and Billie Jean King talking about her love of tennis, all the records she's smashed, not only on the court, but off the court as well. Billy, we ended with this whole idea of pressure being a privilege, which you have written a whole book about. We hear a lot these days from the men and the women that they are feeling too much pressure, that there's just too many games. So many tournaments during the year, they have almost no time off. And then they're playing exhibition games and off, you know, off season games and this and that. Where do you come down on this? Is it too much? Is it worth all these injuries?

[Billie Jean King]

Well, I think it's up to the player, but I think a lot of players try to play too many tournaments. And remember, if you're a top player, you go farther in the tournament. So you play a lot of matches. But a lot of us lose first and second round. So you need more tournaments, you need to play the next week and all that. So it depends on where you're ranked and how many matches you're winning versus losing. Because the lower ranked players lose a lot and they have to keep playing. They need to practice. And that's why you go up. That's where you got to earn it. In the old days, we didn't have enough. Now I think we're probably too much. But if the player has time off, you know what they do just what you said, they play exhibitions, so obviously that's their choice. But you can make a schedule, any schedule you want.

[Christiane Amanpour]

A lot of money's involved, isn't it, Billy?

[Billie Jean King]

Right. A lot of money. And sometimes I think they take the money when they should. Probably not if they've made a lot of money already. Of course, anytime you talk about the players today, compared to us, this is hilarious. We couldn't even afford a coach. So it's like. It's just different.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And you didn't have fancy swanky hotels and I don't know this. Tell me a little bit about what it was like for you compared. Now you see players, they are surrounded by giant entourages, every kind of masseur and trainer and physio and dietitian and all the rest of it. Did you have any of that?

[Billie Jean King]

We did a little bit. We started by hiring an athletic trainer and the players didn't want one because we took 10% of our prize money to pay for things. And the players go, I don't want to get them. I said. And then I'm thinking, how Can I get them to do. This is so important. The health services is huge. And I'm trying to think, we got to make it great, have everything, you know, physiotherapists, massage therapists. I mean, we need everything. And they don't even want to have an athletic trainer. And I'm like. So I said, try two weeks. How about two weeks? And they go, okay, okay, we'll try two weeks. So we start with Connie Spooner was the first one. And in two days, they come running up to me, Billy, Billy, how do we ever. How do we ever do this without him, without her? And I'm like, so you like it? And they go, oh, we love it. So then the next thing is the next thing. I just tried two weeks because I knew they were going to say no, but they kept saying yes because they started to realize I said, it's. You're going to have a longer, better career and you're going to make more money. And I always try to figure out what's in their self interest. And that was very much in their self interest. So they couldn't believe. They. It was so funny. I wish you could have been there, but. But that's the way it is. And now, of course, our health services is run by. Kathleen Stroy, is one of the best in the world. And we do mental and emotional.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Okay, so that's interesting. Yeah. Because you see a lot of men and women mostly lower, lower, lower seeds and things just having meltdowns. And we've already seen it at the Australian Open, and there's, you know, bracket crashing and this and that. I mean, the fact of the matter is, Billy, you. You. You could throw a couple of wobblies, a couple of tantrums. I used to watch you when I was a kid, you know, growing up, watching you at Wimbledon on the T and thinking, oh, this is interesting. How's she going to keep her, you know, her concentration? Tell me about what it's like in terms of the height of the pressure, the cauldron, as you're playing your match.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, I like pressure, and I always did as a child. I liked it when I played team sports. I played everything. I like it. To me, it is a privilege. That's why my saying, you know, pressure is a privilege. Very few people are in those pressure situations, like how many people get to a final of a Wimbledon? How many people get to a final of an Australian? It's a privilege to be in that position. And so I. I thrived on it. I liked it. So everyone's different. But I think if you can start thinking like that and remember, you can only think one thing at a time. Okay? And I think people, they're trying to do so much sometimes, no, you slow down. And slow equals fast or better. So everyone out there, it's okay, but slow down. Don't get all riled up and racy. And we all have those challenges. But. So if you can just calm down, meditate a little bit and just think. I can only think one thing at a time. And you want to be with the ball the whole time. You want to watch it all the way to the contact point. So those are the things I think when you're on center court or stadium court, wherever you are, that you're one of the luckiest people in the world to be out there. I mean, just look at these players. They're the most, you know, in the top 100 of. In the world. It's rough to make the top 100 when. So when people watch the Australian or any tournament, if you have a top 100 player, that's the first big goal for every player. I got to get in the top 100 because that'll get me straight into a major. And if you get straight in the first round, money is good and it'll let me be able to afford a coach and a team of people to take care of me. That why it is so important.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Your first goal was to. Was to be, you know, number one. I mean, that's pretty. That's pretty out there. But of course you did. It is.

[Billie Jean King]

But you know what? I knew there was no promises I'd make it. I have to make it. I don't know. But I was very lucky. I had great parents. I had great people in Long Beach, California, that absolutely helped me. Clyde Walker was amazing. Alice Marble, the great Alice Marble, who won a triple crown in 1939 as well, and was taught me when I was 15, for a few months, she changed my life. I looked at all her scrapbooks, I talked to her, I listened to her, I asked her questions. I knew all the champions from the 20s all the way up to now. And I don't find most of the players talk to older players. And I think it's a big mistake because older players offer me so much fantastic information. I mean, I met Maureen Connolly, the first woman ever to win all four majors in the same year at 18 years old. I met her when I was 15, and she hit with me even though she couldn't play anymore. Can you imagine just to be next to Them and listen to them and hit a ball against them. I learned so much from her. Was it always good? No. Sometimes they're tough on me. It's okay. I kept learning. I just think the players make a huge mistake not talking to the players of the past. And I think you make a big mistake if you don't talk to the people who own the tournament, because maybe you're going to want to do something after tennis and stay in the sport. What do you want to do? Cannot tell you how much I owe the past champions, both men and women. I mean, I used to talk to Don Budge. Well, who's Don budge? He won 38. He's the one that created the Grand Islam, winning all four majors in the same year. He created it. I think people should know that Don Budge created it and thought it up. And I guarantee if I'd love to ask that question to the players.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yeah, you're doing it now. And, of course, Djokovic is after it. You know, he hasn't been able to.

[Billie Jean King]

I know he is, and he's fantastic.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yeah. I was listening to an interview that you'd done, and you were talking about being underestimated in part, also because you wore glasses. People said, you're never going to, you know, make it with those glasses on. Tell me about the glasses and how you. It's all about looking at the ball.

[Billie Jean King]

I started wearing glasses at 13, and I had so many people tell me, I can't make it now because you wear glasses. That made me more determined than ever, because I meet children all the time that have to wear glasses, and I always make a big deal. I go, oh, I love your frames. Oh, let me see. And they just light up because you can tell they're a little. They don't feel comfortable because maybe they need to wear them for different reasons. And I just thought, you know what? I want to win so much because they always tell people with glasses we can't make it. And so I thought, you know, if I can make it wearing glasses, that I think it'll help others that have to wear them as well. And I want to make it cool, make it great for them. It's just like I wore an Afro in 1977.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You did, I remember.

[Billie Jean King]

And nobody asked me about it. And the only reason I wore it was to get the media to pay attention. To what? That black is beautiful, that everyone matters. Arthur Ashe won that year as well as I did. And so here we are dancing together at the Wimbledon ball, and these two Afros are dancing. But I told him, I said, arthur, I go, yours is real. Mine's not. Mine's a perm. So anyway, we had a big laugh about that when we were dancing at the, at the Wimbledon ball.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You always sound just so excited about tennis. You talk still about the magic of the feel of the ball against the strings. And a lot has been written about you, has been filmed about you, has been recorded about you. There's a feature film about you, but you have, there's a new documentary. And the reason you're not at the Australian Open this year is because you are premiering that at Sundance, right? Yeah. So tell me about it. What is different from it? What will we see in it that we haven't seen before?

[Billie Jean King]

Well, you know, a lot of people don't really know much about me or anybody else in the world, so it never hurts to have a documentary because it's more truthful. I think a movie is more like a story, I think. And this one is. I laid it out there. It was difficult to do it, but, you know, there was like a lot of people involved, like Liz Garbus, who's a. Yeah. Award winning director and Elizabeth Wolf is the other director. Elizabeth Wolf came up with the idea that we should start with the middle of it or like the centerpiece. It's 1973. And then either. And go back and go forward. Liz really made me talk about everything. So it's really just laying it out there and it's, it'll be difficult for me to watch, that's for sure. Because at the. When we have to watch it Monday night, I think so it's like, it's hard, but I think it's necessary, especially for future generations. After I'm gone, they'll actually hear my words, how I say it, see my expressions. I think that's a good. You know, I did the book all in, which was fantastic. That took five years. I don't know, I just think it's part of sharing with others and if you hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, instead of, you know, sometimes when you read history, it's not accurate.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You know, you say, you say painful and we're not going to go into it here, but you, you had a lot of challenges as well. Everything, you know, just, just, just trying to be the best you could be. Sort of taking the time and the effort to not just be the best you could be on court, but also off court to be outed and then come out as gay and to have all sorts of issues that You've slowly been, you know, talking about. And I just wondered in, in this document, are there, I mean, are there, is there bits of film? Are there things that we might not have seen before?

[Billie Jean King]

Well, I never got to see myself at all. We didn't have video to look at and analyze. We didn't have biomechanics. We had none of that. Okay, so they got a lot of tape that I had never seen myself play.

[Christiane Amanpour]

So that's cool.

[Billie Jean King]

They made real effort to find it. It's hard, but, oh my God, that made it. For me personally watching and I'm sure for others are going to go, eh, but for me personally to see some of the old video and tapes, I just wish I'd been able to see them then, you know, when I was playing, because it would have helped me get better, because I like to get better. I like I can change things too, if a coach tells me technically to change something. But we were taught so badly in those days compared to now with the biomechanics and the real. I mean, there's so many people working on it. The players are so unbelievable now with their technique, the new rack, well, they're not new anymore, but the rackets, the equipment, I mean, just everything is just fantastic.

[Christiane Amanpour]

What would to end this segment now before we do our recommendations? You've said many, many times that champions adjust not just when you're having trouble, you know, in your game, in your match, but I guess in every walk of life, personal and professional. How do you define champions adjusting on court and in life?

[Billie Jean King]

Life? Well, I think sports really teach us a lot. And of course, other things do too. And I think I always include dance in that, by the way, because it's movement. And I always think of it as in sports as well. And I always think that you just keep learning from your experiences, from competing. If you're observant, which sometimes I'm sure I wasn't, but I was always trying to be, is that it's just a way of keep learning so you can get better as a human being, not just on the court, but off the court. And I think it helps because it's like having a relationship. And relationships are everything really, with yourself, with friends, with people you meet. I mean, I met you years ago.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You did.

[Billie Jean King]

I was trying to remember 2008 because of. I put your picture in the British Museum because you're one of my sheroes. At the time, we'd never met, and you were, I think, at the British Museum, looking at it and going, what? What What?

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yeah, the portrait gallery, I think the portrait gallery. Portrait gallery.

[Billie Jean King]

I said, I want Christiana Amapour because of how brave she is. She goes out and she's with the people, the real people, and the bullets are flying by your ears. And I don't know how you did it with the bombs and reporting, you know, getting the word out to people, what it's really, really like. And just where you're standing with the people was telling me a lot, too. But you were always an icon to me, so I chose you. And they said, well, do you know her? And I go, no, I don't know her. I'm just telling you, she's one of my icons. And then you kind of went, what? I did go, but I met at Wimbledon.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yeah, well, we met actually at a conference in New York and then at Wimbledon.

[Billie Jean King]

That's right.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And then we became fast friends with Ilana, your wife. And to be frank, pressure is a privilege for me as well. I thrive under pressure, so I think we have that in common.

[Billie Jean King]

Well, look at you. I know. Well, that's probably why I admired you so.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And I admired you, my first famous, you know, person to watch when I was a kid. We're going to take a break, and when we come back, the two of us will have our recommendations to close out this episode. Okay, so we're back for this little segment, final segment of our podcast, Billie Jean King. It's the recommendation segment. So I'm going to let you go first. You have a recommendation for everyone I.

[Billie Jean King]

Would like to bring up. You know, I never do resolutions. Every year I go, you know, you make them, you break them and all that. So. But I've been thinking the last six months about what I wanted to do for this year. And so I decided I want to make sure that I do 150 minutes of exercise a week.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Okay, That's a lot.

[Billie Jean King]

It's not okay the first two weeks now I've made it. But this next week's going to be tough. Going to Sundance, doing all these things I'm going to like.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Why that number?

[Billie Jean King]

Because I read a lot of information and I read what 50 year olds should do for exercise. I read what I read a lot and thought a lot.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Excellent.

[Billie Jean King]

You know what? My health is really important, especially at 82. Yeah, I absolutely love tennis. Ilana, who was number one in the world, my wife, she takes me out and hits against me, puts it right on my racket, and I try so hard, I'm sweating bullets. But the kids, half of those 150 minutes have to be vigorous.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Wow, I'm really impressed.

[Billie Jean King]

Tennis equals my vigorous aspect. And then I'm starting to lift more weights again. I think weights when you get older is vital.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You told me that.

[Billie Jean King]

I know. I keep reading everything says as the older you get, the more you have to worry about weights. So you need resistance of some sort. And then I'm starting to do the stationary bike again or walk, and I write it down every day, so I'm going to make myself accountable. I'm starting to choke already, though. I'm into the third week, but I want to do that to force myself because I know I'll be happier to do this. That's fantastic because exercise is so important.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You know, you told me that tennis.

[Billie Jean King]

Is the healthiest sport, and I know why. I mean, you run in different directions. You use all of yourself. You don't get concussions, hopefully don't fall. And it helps my. My balance. At 82, I noticed when I go out and play, I come home, my balance is already better. So I'm like, boy, I gotta keep doing this.

[Christiane Amanpour]

That's great. I like that resolution. And at the risk of, you know, constantly being, you know, a fan girl, it was because you told me the more we age, the more exercise we have to do. Then I went out and got a trainer, and I do it every week, and it's great. As well as you do? Yeah, I do. As well as. What do you do?

[Billie Jean King]

What do they have you do?

[Christiane Amanpour]

You know, weights and body weight and cardio and all that. Got trainer called Simon for my gym, Alfie and Raday for my tennis. And, you know, it's a happy life and a happy world. Maybe no surprise, but my recommendation this week is to go and find the feature film starring Emma Stone as Billie Jean King called Battle of the Sexes. It'll tell you the whole dramatic story. It's amazing. It's much more than a tennis match. It's really a great drama. Okay, well, that was really great. Billie Jean King, thank you so much for being my guest this week. Special episode of the Excellent.

[Billie Jean King]

It's great to see you, Christiane. Thank you for everything you do to make our lives better.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And thank you for everything you've done to bring us equality. And I will miss you at the Australian Open as I'm really enjoying all the matches.

[Billie Jean King]

Thank you.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Thank you, everyone, for listening. Make sure you're following our feed so you never miss an episode. And remember, you can always watch the episodes on YouTube as well. You just search for Christiane Amanpour presents the x files on YouTube and subscribe to our our channel. You can also listen for free on Global Player, download it from the App Store or go to globalplayer.com now. This Week there's no bonus episode. I'm in Australia, but I'll be back next Tuesday with another episode of the podcast. Bye Bye. This has been a Global Player original production.