← Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
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This is a Global Player original podcast.
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The guns have fallen silent over Gaza and the hostages are back in Israel. And I must say it is an emotional moment. After this horror, this darkness.
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At a very human level, peace has broken out in the Middle East. But turning that into a peace that lasts in Gaza is a monumental diplomatic challenge.
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If he keeps at it and he does bring a peace in the next year that will hold and will be revolutionary in the Middle east that no other one has ever been able to do, then I think he will deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. I personally will wear a MAGA hat for at least one day.
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Nobe Prize doesn't belong to Donald Trump until he turns this temporary ceasefire, so that's what I'm saying, into a two state solution. He's not going to be able to do that next year.
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B
Hello everybody and welcome to our latest episode of the X Files with me.
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Christiana Manpour and Jamie Rubin, two time State Department official under Clinton and Biden.
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B
And that's quite relevant today. And relevant also, I'm a longtime CNN correspondent, have covered many, many global conflicts and wars, including in the Middle East. And as we record, it's really is a good news day. The guns have fallen silent over Gaza and the hostages are back in Israel. And I must say it is an emotional moment after this horror, this darkness covering this for me, I mean, every single day for two years. And I've been plunged really into an em sort of spiral over the last two years because it's just been so endlessly horrendous just to think I remember interviewing Israelis who survived the immediate October 7th massacre. And you know, I actually broke down a couple of times when you saw young people who'd just been dancing, you know, at a festival and they were like all beaten up or they had bullets, wounds and was just horrendous. And then two days later I'd be unable to sleep because of the unbelievable war that was unleashed on men, women and children in Gaza. And all I could think of when I went to bed was these people are going to sleep under bombs, these children, and nothing can be done to save them. So it is emotionally also an amazing thing that this has finally happened. So we are going to ask how long can this last and can a ceasefire actually be translated into what has to happen that is a lasting peace. And then we'll also ask does Trump deserve the Nobel Prize? So Jamie, let's get started and don't forget, guys, please subscribe, Please follow us, Please download. You can always listen to us on globalplayer.com and on our YouTube channel as we talk, all the world leaders relevant to this. That means President Trump, the European leaders, the Arab leaders, some other Muslim nations, as you mentioned last time, Indonesia and also Turkey. They are meeting in the, what I call conference Heaven on the Red Sea in Egypt, Sharm El Sheikh, where if you're not going to have a good dive, you're going to have some kind of robust peace negotiation. So, Jamie, this is it now. This is absolutely it. And President Trump said in his speech to the Knesset, he essentially said to the Israeli people, to Netanyahu, to the government, you, with our help, have won through force of arms, but you must now translate that victory into a long term peace, otherwise it's all going to be squandered. Now, I am paraphrasing, but that's essentially what he said. So is that possible, Jamie, can they really keep their focus on and do what's eluded them over the last 30 plus years since Oslo?
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Right. A couple of things. First, yes, at a very human level, peace has broken out in the Middle East. And you can see it in the faces of the people in the Palestinian territory of Gaza, the joy, the weeping for what's lost and in the hostage families who are getting their hostages back. And most people thought that would never happen. And that's real, that's human and that's tangible. But turning that into a peace that lasts in Gaza is a monumental diplomatic challenge. And frankly, that hasn't even begun to be addressed. I was very interested to see the Prime Minister of Qatar, who's been a central player in all this, acknowledging they haven't even gotten a force together, an Arab force, an international force. If that force isn't deployed very, very quickly after the hostage release, the Israelis are going to start using their military again because Hamas is going to start flexing its muscles again. So to turn this ceasefire hostage release phase one, so to speak, into a real phase two, where a long term peace begins to be established in Gaza, is going to require enormous diplomatic, heavy lifting. All the right people, of course, with the exception of Netanyahu, who's not in Sharm El Sheikh.
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B
Let's talk about that.
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For reasons of religion and all that. Look, it doesn't matter whether he's there and it doesn't matter.
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No, but no, no, it does matter. I just want to actually ask you about this since you brought it up, because it would be big. The last time I recall an Israeli Prime Minister being in Sharm El Sheikh with all the Arab leaders was during The Oslo process. I want to say it was. It could have been Sharon, it could have Barak. Exactly. Anyway, that was during the big deal back then.
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That was during the Clinton.
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Yeah, it was. And Clinton was there. Yeah. And I covered it. And that was, that was important. But here's the thing. Trump's, you know, suggested it to, to Sisi, the President of Egypt. Sisi apparently then called Netanyahu. He said he'd consider it. Then it went flashing all around that he was going, and then all of a sudden he said he wasn't going. To me, that's a political thing. I don't know. Hear me out for a minute. But the President, the Prime Minister of Israel, did not want to be locked in a room around a table with his biggest benefactor, Donald Trump, who he knows wants a peace deal, a two state solution. Nor did he want to be locked in a room with all the other Arab states and, and Europeans, who've also always doubled down on the two state solution, either because he doesn't believe in it, Jamie, even at this point, or because he's still trying to please his extreme right flank, the extreme orthodox nationalist Ben Gvir Smotridge and the like. What do you think?
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Yeah, I don't think Netanyahu is the most religious of prime ministers in Israel. But look, you're right. Netanyahu wants to avoid.
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B
But is it a missed opportunity?
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A
Absolutely. Look, Donald Trump has power over Netanyahu. There's no question about that. We watched him put Netanyahu on the phone with the Prime Minister of Qatar and make him read an apology that was written out for him. Netanyahu doesn't want that to happen in front of all the other leaders who want a two state solution. But let me just be clear to people listening. We are a long way from a two state solution. The next step is peace in Gaza that lasts. And for it to last, two big things have to happen. The Hamas has to really step back, has to be neutered, has to be demilitarized, and an Arab force has to go in so that that's possible. The good news, to the extent there's ever good news in these horrors, is that the people of Gaza have had enough of both Hamas and the Israeli military. And that's why the most important next step, what I hope is going on in Sharm El Sheikh right now, is that all the leaders who have the ability to call in troops under a UN resolution, make commitments. If Donald Trump is being smart, right, and I have no reason to think his people are this sophisticated given What I've read about the last few weeks and how difficult it's been to plan for this next phase. They will be gathering troop commitments right now from the likes of Indonesia and Egypt and the UAE and all these people who have to go in to replace the Israelis so that we can have a long term peace. And that's the crucial next step. And during our time last year, let me tell you, a lot of people sort of show that they would like to send in troops, but to get them actually to send in troops under a sort of an organization by the central command of the US but real troops is a big, big step. And that's the biggest step to that needs to be taken. And I hope it's going on in Sharm el Sheikh right now. But I have my doubts.
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So I remember very, very well in Bosnia at the end of the US led, you know, peace accord at Dayton, which basically, you know, there was an end to the war before there was any sort of resolution. The next step was bringing the 60,000 strong NATO force led by the United States to start policing the situation before there could be any pullback or political resolution. So I'm also very nervous that there hasn't been that gathered, as you say. I'm very nervous that they haven't got a big pledge. And I've heard from my interlocutors that say countries like Kazakhstan, which have been asked for troops and which have good relations with both Israel and the Palestinians and the Arab states, they're willing. But countries like Kazakhstan have now said not yet because they don't see a plan on the table for the future. So this is going to be incredibly important. There has to be an absolute commitment to the political plan and then to really gather all the nations that will be willing to come in and do as you said.
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So the political plan is essentially two steps. Step one is who governs Gaza, who is in charge, who makes decisions about the daily lives of the Gazans and the role of the international force and including the role of the international force in making Hamas neutered, disarmed, demilitarized. So that's one thing. The next is this long term political plan of moving from Palestinian governance in Gaza to a two state solution. The first part, let me give you some sort of feel for it. A year ago we worked on the governance structure for Gaza and it was torture. The Palestinian Authority wanted to be on top. The UAE said fine, if it's a reform Palestinian Authority, the Saudis said fine, as long as the UAE doesn't get to choose the people on top. So the Arabs have a history of arguing with each other over who's going to have the right influence over that Palestinian governance structure. Meanwhile, in the Trump plan, it's Donald Trump and Tony Blair. Or Donald Trump isn't going to work on governing Gaza. Tony Blair might. And that's why I think he is a good choice and the right choice. But he can only do that if President Trump gives him the power to use Trump's juice to make the Arabs, including the Palestinians, including the Indonesians, including the Turks, including the Egyptians, all come up with a reasonable structure that the Israelis tolerate. Because, remember, the hardest thing of all about this next phase, the Israelis will want the right to go in and out of Gaza when they, quote, see a threat. And that is going to be a killer amendment if they insist on that. And it's going to require someone like Tony Blair, maybe Sigrid Cog, this Dutch woman who works in the UN system, who the Israelis trust. We're going to have to filter those Israeli requests to go in and deal with some threat from Hamas, which would kill the international force.
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Well, I thought that it was really interesting when Mike Huckabee, the US Ambassador, very evangelical to, to Israel, basically pooh, poohed anybody's contribution to this ceasefire, including the British contribution, and said no, it was all Donald Trump. And then Trump's own handpicked envoy, Steve Witkoff, posted on X that he was so grateful for Jonathan Powell, the current National Security Adviser here, and back then.
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Chief of staff to Blair.
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Yeah, who. Who really also midwifed the accords. Witkoff said that was the unbelievable help. And the details that he got into were priceless. So it could happen if Blair and Powell and that lot are given the latitude to bring that kind of template. And by the way, we already know, because Oslo has the whole plan, we know what it's going to look like. The Clinton parameters of 2001, in fact, have it all laid out. And Clinton himself has said, one day, when peace comes, it is going to look like this. And we're going to be very sorry that Yasser Arafat in 2000 said no, too late. He said yes in 2001 when Clinton was out of office. But it is possible. I'd like to leave some hope on the table because it is possible intractable conflicts have been resolved. And as bad as this one is, and as much as religion is invoked and thousands of years of religion are invoked, it is possible, if the willingness is there and if America, which truly has the only leverage Certainly with Israel, that matters. And the person of Donald Trump stays put. And on that level, I just want to keep just raising the fact that he did try to do the right thing with North Korea in his first term, as we know, Jamie, and he met Kim Jong Un, who nobody else wanted to meet with, and having insulted him and done the whole bullying thing from the UN pulpit, then met him and got a whole some thawing underway, only to not follow up. And that's when they went back to the. So this is the key. I know. And it. I don't know how it's going to change.
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Here's the way it has to happen. Donald Trump has basically an aide de camp named Marco Rubio, who's his, quote, Secretary of State, national Security advisor, and runs the foreign aid program. Obviously, he can't do all of those things. And in fact, Witkoff has played the real role of Secretary of State by going around the world doing the negotiations. But the word on Witkoff, I will.
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Say all the leaders I've talked to say that Jared Kushner is the one who brought this one.
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Let me get to that. So Witkoff has not been a success in anything he's done because he has no clue about what he's doing because he's a real estate lawyer. When he combines with people who have some experience, like Tony Blair and Tony Blair's former chief of staff, currently National Security Advisor in the uk, Jonathan Powell, or Jared Kushner, who has had some experience in the Abraham Accords, Witkoff can be a useful, you know, intermediary for those two people to get involved. Jared Kushner is not going to stay involved day to day. That's the point. Neither is Witkoff going to be good enough. Neither is Rubio. He's got 500 other things to do. That's why you're right to say that Blair needs to be empowered with the help of Jonathan Powell and some experts from the United States. But if Donald Trump and Tony Blair, who are named in this agreement, have a direct line, Blair can get this done. Now, what does that really mean? That means coming up with an actual governance structure for the the, for Gaza that gives the Palestinian Authority a prominent voice, but not the role, because the Israelis will not allow the PA to have a dominant role because they're still under Netanyahu. They have their heads in the sand. But I want to say this because you've heard me say this before, but it has to be talked about a lot. Everyone says you can't kill an ideology like Hamas. You Can. The way to kill it is to move towards a two state solution which Hamas opposes. They like to claim that October 7th caused the Israelis to move on a Palestinian state. But they don't believe in two states. They believe in one state. So if the Israelis are smart, they're going to let Tony Blair and Donald Trump help them keep the peace for the next year. And then there'll be an election in Israel. There has to be next year. And then Israel has to decide whether it wants to meet the goal its founders set for itself. Peace and security and recognition from all its neighbors. And that means empowering the Palestinian Authority, moving towards a two state solution and killing Hamas by killing its ideology of.
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Okay, okay, steady on there. Steady on now. Lots of neutering and killing coming out of your mouth today.
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Well, diplomats can be tough too, you know.
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Yeah, yeah. Let's not forget also that they're hope there'll be an election in the Palestinian Authority. And let's not forget the price that all those civilians have paid, the Palestinian civilians in Gaza, the ongoing horrors in the west bank, which we don't know how that's going to end up. Trump has said, I won't let them annex it. But they. Ben Gvir Smotrich are busy, you know, empowering settlers to chase out Palestinians, burn their villages and their olive groves and the like. Let's not forget also that it is going to take a very long time for those Israeli host to get not just the physical but the mental health care that they need to get past if they can, what happened over the last two years. And also, you know, they're coming back to a first world nation. The Palestinians are coming back from tents that they've been moving around some to, to a hellhole. A hellhole.
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I mean this is going to be the most complex humanitarian reconstruction, peace operation the world has ever seen. If it.
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Yeah, and I mean, well, don't forget we had the Marshall Plan. It is possible. I'm not going to give up hope, but it's going to take a long time. I will tell you that. I was talking to, you know, a very senior level Arab official who said even the. We have seen the pictures of what's happened in Gaza and all the stuff you're seeing, even the drone footage and what you've seen on social media from the journalists and people inside Gaza, not even close to the extent of the devastation that we will find out when finally we are allowed back in. Let's take a break because we're going to go to talk in a Moment after a break about but could it have happened earlier? Why is it Trump and not Biden? Does Trump deserve the Nobel Peace Prize? And did Trump engage in some interference in Israeli domestic affairs from his podium at the Knesset? We'll talk about that in a moment. All right. Welcome back, Jamie. We're going to talk about why couldn't this have happened earlier? In other words, it must stick in your craw. Right. And all the Biden administrations, particularly since we're told it could have happened in September of 2024 when you guys were still in, in office. It could even have happened in January of 2025 when you did the handover to Trump. So why did it take Trump and his totally out of the box diplomacy to actually make this happen? Do you, I mean, can you think about that and digest that at this, at this point?
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Yeah. I mean, look, during that time we were in office, this was extraordinarily painful for those of us working on it, both because of the mass murder conducted against IS Israelis. And there was some incredible New York Times reporting about what Sinwar and his people ordered the Hamas fighters to do, killing, burnings and videotaping it so the whole world would see it in the hopes of causing a massive uprising around the Arab world, all of that failed. And then when Gaza was attacked by Israel and we had to deal every day with trying to make the Israelis take care of the innocent women and men and children who were caught up in it. So this was gut wrenching throughout. And we thought we could end it. And we could have ended it a year ago, I would say, had we started earlier in January. And frankly, had President Biden been willing to bring the hammer down earlier on Netanyahu, this, it was possible. Because what we've seen in the last few weeks is that President Trump can tell Netanyahu enough is enough. Now, there is one factor that's new and different under Trump, and I have to give him credit for this, is that he brought in a relationship with Turkey that has changed things a bit. And Hamas has been weakened by the fact that its sponsor Iran was weakened in the Israeli US Attacks on Iran. So there are some new factors. But again, then really, in the end, Donald Trump told Bibi enough is enough. And he could have told him when he attacked Qatar, with Qatar after he hit Qatar. But Donald Trump could have told him that in January when he said he was going to end the war in 24 hours, or was that Ukraine? I mean, he made some promises that he didn't keep to end the war quickly as far as Netanyahu is concerned, he didn't achieve the objectives he stated. The destruction of Hamas, the end of Hamas. And Trump forced him to accept less than he demanded. They can't annex the West, Gaza, they can't send the Palestinians out of Gaza, and Trump could have done that in January. What I think happened here is that Trump finally got angry with Netanyahu after his act of hubris by attacking Qatar, which is a friend of Trump's. As you know, the 747 he wants comes from Qatar. So he's got a special relationship with them. And the US has an air base in Qatar. So all of those are reasons. But the suffering that went on this year, this calendar year, for 10 long months didn't have to happen if Trump had acted 10 months ago.
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B
You just mentioned Ukraine. Do you think there's a template here? Do you think Trump can transpose what he did to, you know, Netanyahu? I know they're different stories, but you think there's any way Trump could translate and, you know, translate that to Putin and end that war?
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I'm getting another cramp. Every time we talk about the Middle East, I get a cramp in my leg.
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B
But anyway, or Putin, Putin.
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And that's the difference is Trump doesn't have the leverage over Vladimir Putin that he thinks he does. He doesn't have the ability to tell Putin to stop the war the way he could to Netanyahu. He doesn't. Hasn't done the things necessary to build that leverage by increasing sanctions, by giving more weapons to Ukraine. He could be doing those things and then, then get the leverage on Putin and then maybe, just maybe, we could get that war stopped. But that's going to be a whole hell of a lot harder. We're talking about a nuclear power, the biggest land power.
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B
So is Israel.
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A
Well, but, but Russia is a bigger power than Israel. Let's face it. As much as we talk about just need one or two, but it's a much, much bigger country. And it's a led by a dictator, not a democracy. As flawed as Israel's democracy can be, it is a democracy. Putin is a dictator. And he frankly doesn't care what the rest of the. Because he's got the Chinese and the Iranians and the North Koreans on his side. So that's the hard part.
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B
Yeah. And you know, I was. It's funny because Trump said. And he's even said it out loud now. I thought the Putin bit would be easier because of my relationship with Putin, but clearly that didn't work out. Listen, we said, does Trump deserve the Nobel Peace Prize? Look, he wasn't going to get it this year because as we know, the work has to be done in 2024 if you're going to get the prize. You know, it's the year before for. But if he keeps at it and he does bring, you know, a piece in the next year that will hold and will be revolutionary in the Middle east that no other one has ever been able to do, they've tried, but it hasn't worked, then I think he will deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. I personally will wear a MAGA hat for at least one day and I.
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Will say, well done, that boy.
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I will do it, I promise you. I'm quoting, I have to say, I am quoting a former Labor Shadow Foreign minister, Emily Thornbury, who I heard say it on the radio and I thought that was a really good way to put it.
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I'm never gonna wear a MAGA hat, I'll tell you that.
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B
For one day. For one day.
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A
That's the great irony about Donald Trump. He's destroying America. While he's occasionally, very rarely, but occasionally doing some good things international, nationally, but a Nobel enterprise doesn't belong to Donald Trump until he turns this temporary ceasefire, so that's what I'm saying, into a two state solution. He's not going to be able to do that in the next year. It's not. He might happen in the next year. No way. He might.
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B
If he knocks heads together.
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No, I don't think it's possible. There's too hard.
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B
Well, then, then nothing's possible.
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Solution in the one year. That's going to be something that takes five to 10 years and will require him and his team to spend two or three years working on it. We worked in Oslo for a decade, decade to try to bring priests to the Palestinians and the Israelis when we had the best of goodwill, when we had.
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B
I know, but you've got all that legwork done.
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A
Bill Clinton.
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B
Yeah, but I know you've got all the legwork done. You need the political will and you need America to weigh in.
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A
And I'll tell you why Israel has changed in those 20 years. Israel has become a more angry, more right wing country than it was 25 years ago when it elected Ehud Barak, who offered Syria the Golan Heights for peace. So I don't see Israel changing that much to make peace possible in a year.
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B
Okay, so that's bad then. That's bad. That is bad. It's not hopeful. So in the Knesset Jamie, I was honestly, I was struck by two things, a lot of things, but two things. Mainly when Bibi Netanyahu started and he spoke before Trump, I swear to God, I waited for, for, okay, I'm going to get picked up if I say this, but at least five minutes, maybe it was three minutes, maybe it was seven minutes before he even mentioned the hostages. Thank you, Donald Trump, for letting us have sovereignty over the Golan Heights. Thank you, Donald Trump, for telling us that, you know, we have a historical claim to, as they say, Judea and Sumeria, you know, the West Bank. I mean, I couldn't believe it. It was the most unbelievable domestic political speech. And only then did he talk about the hostages. And that is why the people there are so angry with him because he's put the hostages literally second, third and fourth on his list of priorities.
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A
And you're right.
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B
But then the other thing I want.
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A
To ask before we get to the next thing, what you're right about right there is why it's going to be hard to get a two state solution. Because the leaders of Israel for more than a decade now have been building up settlements in the west bank, have been conducting now for the last two years this war in Gaza. And the idea of a Palestinian state is going to take a lot of, of real political leadership in Israel to change minds. And that's why I keep talking about killing Hamas by a two state solution. And that's going to require a real change in mindset. And the Israeli leaders are not going to be able to do that until there's been election, maybe one, maybe two. And the real change occurs in Israel because the Palestinian Authority is now led by people who are willing to accept all the things that Yasser Arafat said no to. They're ready to accept the Clinton parameters. They're ready to say yes. Right now. What has to change is in Israel. And I frankly don't see Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu on the White House lawn saying the things that Yitzhak Rabin said that Bill Clinton said. Remember the famous phrase the quiet miracle of a normal life? These are very powerful.
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B
You remember Bill Clinton and I remember Yitzhak Rabin saying enough of blood and tears.
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A
And I don't see that coming out of Netanyahu's mouth.
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B
So that's the I tell you what, maybe not, but maybe, maybe the people of Israel. I again, I don't know whether this holds up, but I heard today on the radio a fairly new poll says that some 70% of both Israel and Palestinians want to have a secure, independent, sovereign future for each of them. So that's not bad. And then I wonder what the Israeli people will think when all the journalistic investigations go on. It's already been written by negotiators that, that it was Netanyahu who broke the ceasefire and caught the one that October 7th.
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A
He's got to pay a price for being prime minister when October 7 happened, and he still hasn't paid a price for that.
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B
Yes, and, and, but he did two times apparently, according to Gershon Baskin and others, that he broke the ceasefire in, in, in March of 25 and made it clear that the prime Minister was not interested in a peace deal back in the last round of major negotiations in September 24th when you guys were still in office. So the other thing I want to.
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Ask you, that they were not ready to do what they're ready to do now. But I should also say that the Palestinians are much more cooperative today. The Palestinian Authority is not demanding leadership of Gaza the way they were a year ago because some wise Norwegian diplomats have explained to Abu Mazen, don't talk about that now. Now, Tony Blair and others will help you be the leader in Gaza because the only alternative to the Hamas is the pa. But instead of demanding it on paper, which the Israelis could veto, they're just doing it quietly. So there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic, but there's some big reasons to doubt that Netanyahu and Trump are going to be the pair.
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B
Well, Trump has to. But Netanyahu may be voted out. He faces an election before Trump, but maybe not he. Remember he lost the last election and only managed to stay in office because he cobbled together that far right extremist.
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A
Orthodox nationalist policy's gonna be one thing in the election. Anyone but Bibi Abb.
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B
Yeah, well, we'll see. Now the other thing, Jamie, I don't know whether you heard it, but Trump at the end of his speech turned to President Isaac herzog and said, Mr. President, I urge you to give Bibi a pardon. He's a hero, this and that. What is behind all that? I mean, it would have been one thing when the war still going on and have him. Okay, we pardon you now. Get, you know, get out of politics and never run again. But it's another thing now that he's claiming victory to grant him a pardon. I mean, you know, we're talking about his corruption trial that is ongoing.
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A
Yes, well, I do know why you asked me that question. So let me choose my words very carefully here. Donald Trump doesn't believe that leaders should be prosecuted for anything. As you know, in the United States, there were a lot of things he could have been prosecuted for that he doesn't believe ought to happen. But he's happy to have anyone else prosecuted regardless of whether it's legitimate or not. So that's point one. Point two, he has no problem interfering in the Israeli political system by making that proposal. Now, number three, and here's where I'm going to be very careful about this, it is possible to think about a president of Israel pardoning Bibi Netanyahu, which would eliminate his concern about permitting elections before it's required next, whatever that is, next fall. And that's been the problem up till now is that Netanyahu doesn't want to face the prospect of prison time, even though he could go out a hero if he made peace with the Palestinians and got recognition with the Saudis. So what if he spends a year in a minimum security prison anyway? He and his family, probably his wife and others are. So if you've ever seen the film, the BB Files, are so sure that they can just block the Israeli legal system that they're not prepared to face the mutual music of a, of a country of laws. And Trump is trying to jump over all that. But even if the president were willing to do that, and I have, I don't know, he might, I somehow don't think the Israeli prime minister now and his wife are going to allow that to happen.
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B
Interesting, Right? On that note, talk about interfering in another country's domestic politics. Mr. Trump, on that note, I hope that President Trump stays focused and makes this happen because it's the only way right now that I can see an end and a light in this tunnel. So, Jamie, let's take a break. When we come back, a quick final segment with our recommendations for this week. Okay, we're back. We've got a short time now, Jamie, to talk about our recommendations because we really did blabber on a lot, a lot about the piece, which, which is.
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A
Not hard to do, let's face it, right?
- [32:17]
B
No, no. And it's a very, it is a good news story and I want to be optimistic and I want to hold these leaders, you know, to account. So they keep doing it because they've got a chance, man. They've got a chance. And if they blow it now, then it's on them. So I'm talking about the Middle East. So my recommendation, Jamie, is this book. It's not very, very, very new, but it is Julie Andrews, who's the most wonderful, wonderful, wonderful person. This is called Homework, A Memoir of My Hollywood Years. She just turned 91 a couple of weeks ago, and all I know is that I grew up on the songs and the acting and the beauty and the joy of Julie Andrews. The Hills Are Alive with the Sound of Music and all the rest of it. Yeah, that was from the Sound of Music. And then I think also to note that at the age of 91, she turned 90. But at the age of 91, a few days later, Jane Goodall, the wonderful Jane Goodall, died. And she was the great naturalist. And maybe I mentioned it last year, last week, but I've listened to so many podcasts that I want everybody to go and watch the Jane Goodall documentaries and listen to what you can from her and get some wonderful sort of sound recordings of Julie Andrews. It'll put you in a really good mood. That's what I think.
- [33:33]
A
I hope so. That's what we need. Well, this, I can't honestly say my recommendation will put you in a good mood, but it's a great, deep think. So I'm going to put my book up to the camera. What? We know Ian McEwan's new book. Oh, yes, it's absolutely brilliant. I finished it last night. Now, why is it brilliant? Well, first of all, we all know Ian McEwan is brilliant, but I think, as a fellow reviewer put it, this is the best book he's written in decades. Oh, now why is it the best?
- [34:01]
B
Best?
- [34:02]
A
Well, I love historical.
- [34:04]
B
Can you. Can you make it snappy?
- [34:05]
A
Yeah, I will. I love historical.
- [34:07]
B
You're getting all professorial.
- [34:08]
A
I love historical fiction. As you know, I've read a lot of Dostoevsky and. And Tolstoy and all that stuff. This book.
- [34:15]
B
Now you're just showing.
- [34:16]
A
Now I am. This book manages to incorporate in a storytelling environment all of these issues. I wrote them all down. AI climate, Alzheimer's, commerce, geopolitics, affairs in married couples, poetry. And then family dynamics where parents make their children screwed up when they grow older. And all of those seven or eight topics that are very current in our modern world are woven together in a dramatic way where the future of the next 30 years and 100 years is discussed in the current time is discussed as well. There's a gigantic dinner party that it's all based on. Where? In the uk In Oxford, in a big barn. There's a gigantic dinner party that a poet recounts a poem. I won't say more than that, but managing to weave in The AI threat, the climate change threat, the Alzheimer's reality for many, many people around the world, is a remarkable feat of novelistic genius.
- [35:20]
B
I'm going to go out and buy that book on your recommendation. I hope you're going to get a tape or something to put in your car of Julie Andrews. Say that you will.
- [35:28]
A
I will. To the Sound of Music.
- [35:29]
B
You can sing the Hill and Mary Poppins. All of those things are super califragilistic. Exp. Alidocious. Doious Aliex fragicali. Super.
- [35:38]
A
You always were good at that.
- [35:40]
B
Both ways, right? That's it. That's it. Thank you everybody for listening to our podcast and watching it on our YouTube channel. Don't forget, you can get it wherever you get your podcast and on Global Player, you can download the app at the store. So keep sending in your questions and answers because we will have our bonus episode coming next and we do like to hear from you and we love to answer. So there's so much going on and we look forward to it. So for the moment, over and out and see you in a couple of days with the Q and A. Bye, Jamie.
- [36:12]
A
Goodbye from New York. This has been a Global Player original production.
- [36:23]
C
Progressive knows we all crave validation.
- [36:25]
A
Girl, you are not 37.
- [36:27]
B
I would have guessed 27. You guys are too sweet.
- [36:29]
A
Sure. Dewy skin. Terrific. Um, is something wrong, Ned? Why would you ask? Just because Today marks my 10th anniversary.
- [36:35]
B
Without a car accident or even a speeding ticket.
- [36:37]
A
But somehow tonight's all about your skincare. Wow.
- [36:42]
C
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