← Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Q&A: Trump's mental health, Epstein files accountability & Israel's death penalty
00:24:54
Loading summary
Transcript41 lines
- [00:00]
Thumbtack Advertiser
Thumbtack presents uncertainty strikes I was surrounded the aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes and natural bristles. There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what type of paint to use? What if I just used Thumbtack? I can hire a top rated pro that knows everything about interior paint. Easily compare prices and read reviews. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today.
- [00:30]
Redfin Advertiser
There's a difference between liking a house and actually getting it. Redfin is built to make up that difference and close the gap between finding and owning the home for you. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents, so when you find a home you love, you're not a step behind when it comes to making an offer. That means less watching great homes disappear and more focus on the one you'll call home. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. New get started@redfin.com own the dream
- [01:03]
Jamie Rubin
this is a Global Player Original Podcast the
- [01:07]
Christiane Amanpour
way Trump is appearing to a lot of people, it's not just crazy like a fox. Some people who have to deal with him think it's actually just downright crazy.
- [01:15]
Jamie Rubin
Think of how stupid the whole thing was that Saddam Hussein didn't want to admit he had no chemical or biological weapons because he thought we knew that he didn't. And he wanted the Iranians to think that he did.
- [01:30]
Christiane Amanpour
And that's when you lost your temper. You went so many powerful men in the United States have gotten away with it. Their names are out there. All the rest of it. Maybe they've been a little bit canceled, but is there any accountability? Hello everyone, and welcome to the Q and A episode of the X Files with me, Christiana Manpour in London and
- [01:54]
Jamie Rubin
Jamie Rubin here in New York.
- [01:56]
Christiane Amanpour
And of course, this is where we answer your question. So we're going to get started. Jamie, I am going to ask the first one. Susanna on email recently, another group of doctors and other experts have written a letter saying they believe Trump is mentally not fit to serve. How worried do you think we should all be about the president's mental faculties, given how erratic his behavior has become? Right? So, Susanna, I have to put my iPad down in order to concentrate and actually look you straight in the eye and try to answer this. It is not easy talking about another person's mental health, specifically. It's not easy talking about a president specifically about the United States, specifically in this highly toxic environment where whatever you say becomes, you know, just Kicked around like crazy. But I have now talked to at least two actual people in positions of power and authority who have to deal with Trump. At least one of them does. And the other used to, one of them is concerned because this person says to me, how do you explain, let's just say in the middle of a war that shouldn't have been started against Iran, he said, this map that you have the President of the United States posting one thing, one minute, another thing, another minute, literally swinging on policy and posts from here all the way to here in the space of sometimes a matter of hours that he said leads us to be very, very anxious and we don't know what's going on. None of us are doctors. None of us have any right to pronounce on anyone's clinical diagnosis. But. But in terms of the way Trump is appearing to a lot of people, it's not just crazy like a fox. Some people who have to deal with him think it's actually just downright crazy. And when it comes to war, that is the single most important and consequential act that any leader can make to declare war, send their troops into war, and all the consequences that flow from there. And on the other hand, there are others who won't say that he's crazy, but that he is not as acquainted with the issues and as on top of all the issues that he should be as President of the United States. And nor does he have the, I don't know, what's the right word, the helpful, useful, correct type of people around him who would know all the issues and could advise him if in the. The. The right way. So those are the questions that are now on everybody's mind, given the increasingly erratic behavior and posts. Jamie, what do you think?
- [04:44]
Jamie Rubin
Yeah, this is obviously the most troubling question you can imagine. Look, I try to take it on a couple of levels. One thing that I remember that gave me some comfort, and I know it's going to sound a little funny, but I hope people will understand it, is the thing that Trump has made clearest he's scaredest of is nuclear weapons. He actually called them the real N word was his phrase to describe how dangerous he knows they are and how different they are and how they stand in a terribly different category than other weapons. I took comfort from that, that, you know, he knows that that's just not something that you play around with, because unfortunately, in our system, and I probably in the Russian system, as power to use those weapons is in the hands of the president, whether our military would follow through with orders that were clearly crazy. I don't know. I'd like to think they would stop that, but I don't know. I'd like to think people would be willing to be court martialed or, you know, imprisoned or killed even if they were going to save the world from, from nuclear destruction. I, I believe those are the kind of people who work in our milit, people with that level of bravery and honor. So that's that. On the normal day and the normal subjects, it's very, very hard to keep yourself from getting angry. I mentioned this in other contexts because we've never had a president who flipped and flopped so dramatically on subjects of such great importance. And that is what Trump has been able to do as president. Exploit the powers of the presidency to the maximum degree and make the whole sitting around waiting for what's his next tweet going to say. And the only thing I can say about that is try as best you can to focus on the actions and not the words because in the end, that's what matters.
- [06:54]
Christiane Amanpour
It does. But I can assure you that when he threatened to wipe a whole civilization off the face of the earth, as you remember, he did about Iran, if they didn't surrender, Iran was very concerned. And I've been told that senior people there believe that they would face some kind of limited nuclear strike by the United States. That's what they thought. So imagine that's what the Iranians thought, those in leadership there. And I do think there is a problem because of course it's really gratifying to know the President of the United States hates nuclear weapons. But what really upsets me and confuses me is that he's the one that pulled the United States, I. E. The world out of a perfectly well operating at the time arms control agreement around the Iran nuclear, you know, program that's called the jcpoa. He pulled them out with no replacement. Also under him and Putin, they've allowed all the nuclear arms control agreements to lapse between them. So none exists right now. And then you get this sort of straw man commentary from President Trump. He says, yes, yes, President Xi agrees that Iran shouldn't have a nuclear weapon, or Chancellor Merz or President Macron or Prime Minister, you know, Starmer or the King. Of course they agree. Everybody agrees, everybody in the whole world agrees that that is the case. That's not the issue. The issue is, then why did you pull out of an arms control agreement around Iran's nuclear weapons without being able to do anything better and maybe launch A war that may make them, if they survive, seek in fact the very thing you are trying to prevent them from getting. So that worries me and I don't think it's rational and that's a real issue. I am going to ask you, Jamie, please, to ask the next one.
- [08:48]
Jamie Rubin
SAM ON EMAIL this is real. They're asking us some real hard ones, I have to tell you. Do you think liberal democracy will still endure by the time younger generations reach old age as trust in institutions, expertise and objective truth declines across the world? Are we witnessing a temporary crisis or the beginning of a deeper democratic decline?
- [09:13]
Christiane Amanpour
Well, it is said, wow, for the first time in a long time, and I don't know whether it's the first time ever, it can't be, but it's the first time in a long time there are apparently more autocratic and dictatorial nations than there are democratic right now. Maybe for the first time since the collapse of the Cold War or whatever. But that's what I said. Do you think that's true, Jamie? Am I? Yes, it is true.
- [09:34]
Jamie Rubin
I think it, all of this depends on how you define democracy. But clearly the direction is the wrong direction.
- [09:40]
Christiane Amanpour
It's troubling and particularly when it reaches the most important democracy in the world, which is the United States. So I, I, I am worried, I think if we don't fight for it, we won't keep it. And I'm worried about what you mentioned, which is trust, trust in institutions, expertise, objective, truth. That's the business I am in. And I believe that it's not an accident. I think populists and extremists deliberately break down trust in all these institutions and facts and figures in order to increase their control over you, us, everybody. And I think that's a real problem. And I believe it's happening right now certainly in the United States, in many other, you know, countries where, you know, not just fake news, but the inability to agree that there is any objective truth or that there's any expertise or that there's any institution that, that holds, you know, holds professional parameters and, and, and has rules and regulations. It's all whoops going and we have to fight very, very hard to maintain it.
- [10:46]
Jamie Rubin
Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you said. You know, the, the issue I worked on during my time in government partly was the subject of formation warfare where Russia and China were really trying to destroy the, what I call the fact based world. And they were trying to exploit the fact that the new media lends itself to putting people into different pockets and then artificial Intelligence can now multiply that capability. So Instead of telling one lie to 10 million people, you can try to tell a million lies to 10 individuals. You know, groups of 10 people because of the capabilities of AI and, and drive people apart by putting them into separate boxes where they don't listen to the other side. And so one of the things I remember learning in, in, in political philosophy is it's not just about the freedom to speak, it's also about the freedom to listen. And what we've lost a lot of in the modern era is the listening part. A lot of people want the freedom to speak and they should have the freedom of speech. And obviously there should be certain limitations when appropriate and we all know the examples of that. But freedom to listen, freedom to dialogue, that's how I think you came up with the idea of this podcast, was that it was important for people to listen to each other because problems are not going to be resolved with one person making a diktat. You know, that's maybe what the Communist Party of China thinks the best way to go is for one man to decide everything. It's not my opinion that that's the best way to decide some of these very, very complex issues. But democracy is in trouble because the fact based world is in trouble because the divisions in our country have gotten stronger and deeper and, and, and more angry. And until the system rights itself, we're going to have to rely on the goodwill of men rather than the, the laws and the institutions and the constitutions that were designed to bring a structure that brought people progress.
- [13:06]
Christiane Amanpour
Also we do need to say that in some European countries, for instance, the illiberal democrats have been voted out with more liberal Democrats being voted in. But we'll see here in the UK it's a very, very, very tenuous situation with the potential for a very populist future government here under the Brexiteers, led by Farage, Nigel Farage. And their whole point was to collapse trust in truth, institutions, expertise, facts and everything. And we've had 10 years of it and we've seen how this country has, you know, had a, had suffered because of it, not least in the economy.
- [13:51]
Jamie Rubin
Now time to thank our partner for this episode. NordVPN In Foreign Policy, you're always thinking about security. It's the main objective. Keeping your data, your people, your country secure. And yet on an individual level, a lot of us barely think about our own security online. That's where NORDVPN comes in. With NORDVPN threat protection feature, you're protected from viruses, malware, phishing sites, all those daily threats that could compromise your security. And if you're not the techy Type, don't worry. NordVPN is really simple to use. With one click, your Internet connection is encrypted through a secure server, hiding your IP address and keeping your personal information personal. Protect up to 10 devices with a NORDVPN account and all for the cost of about a cup of coffee a month. Plus there's a 30 day money back guarantee if you change your mind. To get 4 extra months on a 2 year plan. Go to nordvpn.com the x files. Find the link in the episode description
- [14:55]
Inner Balance Advertiser
if you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance. The first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop, 10 seconds a day. Oester replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com.
- [15:30]
Christiane Amanpour
Okay, next one. Rebecca on YouTube with the Epstein files now public, why does there still seem to be so little accountability for powerful individuals linked to abuse, trafficking and exploitation more broadly? Why do so many women and children still feel unprotected by institutions that are meant to keep them safe? It is terrible. So many powerful men in the United States have gotten away with it. Their names are out there. All the rest of it, maybe they've been a little bit canceled, but is there any accountability? Is there anything at all? No, not yet. And I think the press has done an extremely poor job, frankly, all over. Not those who first exposed his crimes. And the great, you know, journalist from the Miami Herald who did really the yeoman's work on all of this. But I think reporters who go after secondary and tertiary and you know, layers on down, you know, focusing on the wrong issues and the wrong topics where they should be focusing on the correct topics. I think this is all a very, very poor, bad situation reflects badly on those people who've committed the crimes. It reflects badly on those members of the press, like the tabloid press. And I think it continues to cause the women and children, you know, to feel unprotected by the very institutions that are meant to them safe.
- [16:48]
Jamie Rubin
As Rebecca says, you know, there's two separate issues here. The issue of what Epstein and his cohorts did to the women and how they abused them and how they treated them like animals and, and exploited them and committed crimes, using them. And that has to be fully vetted more. And that's the part that seems to get lost in the other part of the discussion, which is Epstein's discussions, dinners, relationships with men and women in powerful positions that may or may not have had anything to do with the criminal behavior. And because it all has been lumped together, it's been very, very confusing. It's obviously a subject that a lot of people love to talk about and think about and know about. But I wish we could get back to the issue, which is the mistreatment and of the women and the damage done to them, and figure out a way for accountability to be provided in that context and make sure we have that accountability in that context and less of the who knew Epstein? Did they go to their house? And that can get confusing because there were people who clearly didn't know what he was doing too. Not that that's easy to distinguish, but that's why the issue is so frustrating and seemingly endless.
- [18:21]
Christiane Amanpour
Okay, you ask the next question.
- [18:24]
Jamie Rubin
Yes, I will. JOSH ON email what do you make of Israel introducing a law which allows the death penalty to be used specifically for Palestinians involved in planning and carrying out the October 7th attacks? Can that move be justified?
- [18:40]
Christiane Amanpour
As far as I am reading the death penalty law, there's a couple. One is for West Bank Palestinians convicted of deadly acts of terrorism that's just come into effect. The commander of the IDF Central Command has signed the orders necessary to enact the measure in the territory. This is really something that the rest of the, obviously the rest of the Arab world and many are just gobsmacked about, because this is not necessarily about October 7th. This is about other issues. And right now what's happening in the west bank is, by all accounts and general consensus, the radical settlers, enabled by their radical police, Minister Ben GVIR and others and the IDF, are the ones committing crimes against Palestinian lives, Palestinian property, Palestinian farmland, and evicting them and essentially annexing the west bank by stealth measures. So this, this particular part of it is, is really, really, it's caused a huge uproar. But these are the people who, in fact, you know, are in charge of the Israeli government and these sort of issues right now. So this is one of the, one of the results of having a very far right extremist Israeli government, particularly with their designs on the occupied west bank in terms of specifically for Palestinians involved in planning and carrying out the October 7th attack. I think that some will be able to justify the notion of the worst crime ever committed on, you know, on Israeli soil carrying the death penalty. I don't know all the details about this at all, but I would say that that is what the Israelis would say.
- [20:33]
Jamie Rubin
October 7th was a powerful event for the region. I think when we're talking about the Iran war, we should remember that it's the consequence of Yahweh Sinwar's decision to launch October 7, which then caused an Israeli reaction first in Gaza, then in Lebanon, then the fall of the Syrian government and then the attacks on Iran. So this was in, in historical terms, Middle east terms, a decision that really destroyed the axis of resistance, such as it was. Iran was in a far, far better place prior to October 7th. They had access to the Mediterranean, they had a government in Syria that was friendly, they had Hezbollah ruling the roost in Lebanon. And now they don't have any of that and are fighting for their lives. So, October 7th, back for the axis of resistance. The questioner asks about justice and law. And I think in my understanding the Israelis for many, many years have tended to follow both the law and also the intelligence services effort to track down and kill terrorists wherever they are for no matter how long it takes. I believe that is what they said they were going to do for the October 7th masterminds. My guess they did.
- [22:08]
Christiane Amanpour
Actually one of them, they did just kill recently a leader.
- [22:13]
Jamie Rubin
Most of them I suspect by now have, have been killed. And you know, if you're asking me is that justified, well you know, given what happened on October 7, you know, at some level, yes, it's justified. Is the death penalty the right approach is a whole nother legal subject. And I, you know, in a war people are killed and it's a war between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I wish there weren't a war. I wish they could see now the chance the Israelis have to take all of these advantages that has been created by October 7th and its response with a government in Syria that could make peace, with a government in Lebanon that could make peace and with a Arab countries ready to recognize Israel if they would just realize their long term interest would be beneficial if they could solve, at least begin to solve the Palestinian issue and reach the dream of the Israeli's founders. I say this all the time, people laugh at me that so hopefully over optimistic it isn't A new election in Israel could yield a new government which sees the value in locking in the diplomatic gains they've won on the battlefield through diplomacy. And this government hasn't been able to do that. So that's what I'm going to answer to that question.
- [23:34]
Christiane Amanpour
Yeah. Well, I tell you what, the challengers in the, in the upcoming election are playing, playing very hardball and not saying that they believe in the diplomatic option
- [23:46]
Jamie Rubin
or state and what they might do, though.
- [23:49]
Christiane Amanpour
Yes, exactly. Their campaign language is not hopeful on this, on this issue, but we'll see now.
- [23:55]
Jamie Rubin
Francisca onx Happy first podcast anniversary. Over the past year, you've disagreed very politely, but have you ever had a disagreement on policy or foreign affairs so deep that it made it difficult to stay cordial? What was it about? Well, I'm gonna just bring back a memory. Cause it's a partial answer to the question. It was while we were married. I don't even. Yeah, I think we were married by then. We were living in Washington. I was the spokesman of the State Department. And the subject was Iraq. And Iraq was one of the most frustrating subjects for an American official because it was seemingly unable to be resolved. And we had this policy of sanctions rather than war or letting Saddam run free or whatever you would call that. And the sanctions policy was not very satisfying because it was, it seemed to be causing pain to everyone but Saddam. But we thought it was the right balance between war and letting Saddam run free. And you posed a few of the more difficult questions about it. And I think it's possible that I lost my temper about it.
- [25:13]
Christiane Amanpour
That is very true.
- [25:15]
Jamie Rubin
It was private. We were at home. And I remember that. And Iraq always was like that for me. I always found it the most infuriating subject. And just to end the thought, think of how stupid the whole thing was that Saddam Hussein didn't want to admit he had no chemical or biological weapons because he thought we knew that he didn't. That's, that's the Iranians to think that he did.
- [25:44]
Christiane Amanpour
Yeah, but that's 2003. You're talking about a, an episode that happened, you know.
- [25:49]
Jamie Rubin
No, but I'm just saying. Started with that logic. Yeah, that.
- [25:53]
Christiane Amanpour
Well, what I said. Wanted to pretend you were kvetching about Iraq. I said, well, I know it's fine coming from you. You Americans supported Saddam Hussein in the war against Iran, the long Iran Iraq war. And that's when you lost your temper. You went anyway, that's it.
- [26:09]
Jamie Rubin
But because it wasn't me. I wasn't. I was in high school then.
- [26:14]
Christiane Amanpour
I know, but you lost your temper over it because you said, of course we did. We didn't want those fundamentalists in Iran, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, it was one of those American non sequiturs in terms of policy that has come back to haunt you all. Anyway, just saying, I'm reporting you're doing that's it for this episode. So I hope Francisca can see that we have had some very severe disagreements, others which are not fit for the, you know, for public consumption regarding foreign policy. Jamie, you might know a few and and presidents and this and that. But anyway, we won't talk about it now. And that was good. Thank you very much. And on that very sort of pregnant pause, we are going to say goodbye. Thank you for watching the Q and A episode of the X Files with me, Christiane and Jamie. And don't forget, our next episode will be on Tuesday and we will be back with all the full bells and whistles. Don't forget, you can always listen to our podcast on Global Player and watch on YouTube by subscribing to our channel. Just search Christiana Monpour presents the X Files Sayonara.
- [27:20]
Jamie Rubin
Bye Bye from New York
- [27:25]
Inner Balance Advertiser
if you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance. The first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop 10 seconds a day. Oestra replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com this has been a global
- [27:59]
Thumbtack Advertiser
player Original production Thumbtack presents uncertainty strikes I was surrounded the aisle and the options were closing. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes and natural bristles. There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what type of paint to use? What if I just used Thumbtack? I can hire a top rated pro that knows everything about interior paint, easily compare prices and read reviews. Thumbtack knowshomes Download the app today if
- [28:32]
Inner Balance Advertiser
you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance. The first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop 10 seconds a day. Oester replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com.