Q&A: Why is Netanyahu refusing a peace deal with Gaza?

Summary

Summary of "Q&A: Why is Netanyahu Refusing a Peace Deal with Gaza?"
Christiane Amanpour Presents: The Ex Files
Release Date: June 25, 2025

Host: Christiane Amanpour
Co-host: Jamie Rubin

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1. Introduction to the Q&A Format

In this bonus Q&A episode of The Ex Files, Christiane Amanpour and Jamie Rubin engage directly with their audience by addressing questions submitted via social media and email. The episode sets the stage for a deep dive into pressing global issues, particularly focusing on the Middle East conflict, the Ukraine war, and broader geopolitical tensions.

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2. Iran-Israel Conflict and Europe's Role

Key Questions Addressed:

• Future actions of Israel and the US towards Iran post-conflict.
• Europe's influence on the ongoing war.
• Pakistan's potential involvement in mediating the Iran-Israel conflict.

Discussion Highlights:

Jamie Rubin emphasizes the necessity of an intermediary outside the United States and Israel to facilitate diplomatic discussions with Iran. He suggests Pakistan as a plausible mediator due to its close ties with Iranian intelligence. He recounts a past experience where he noticed the strong collaboration between Pakistani and Iranian intelligence services ([01:12]).

Notable Quote:

"I think we may need outsiders." — Jamie Rubin [02:31]

Christiane humorously interjects about Pakistan nominating President Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize—a nod to Rubin’s previous remarks about Trump's potential diplomatic roles.

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3. American Public Awareness of the Ukraine War

Key Question Addressed:

• Is the American public sufficiently informed about the dangers and implications of Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

Discussion Highlights:

Jamie Rubin expresses concern that the American public lacks adequate awareness of the Ukraine conflict's broader implications for international order. He criticizes the Trump administration for downplaying the issue, leading to diminished public engagement and support ([03:49]).

Christiane adds that media coverage has waned, reducing the emotional and informational connection necessary for sustained public support. They agree on the critical need for continued attention to keep the plight of Ukrainians in the global spotlight.

Notable Quote:

"We can't ignore it. We mustn't ignore it. We have to help the Ukrainians in every way we can." — Jamie Rubin [04:58]

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4. US and European Arms Supply to Ukraine

Key Questions Addressed:

• Should Europe be incentivized to invest more in its sovereign weapons manufacturing?
• Concerns about the misuse of US weaponry, as seen in Gaza.

Discussion Highlights:

Rubin argues for a dual approach where Europe rebuilds its defense industrial capacity while also utilizing American weapon systems. He underscores the strategic importance of a robust defense industrial complex in the face of threats from Russia and China ([06:36]).

Christiane brings up historical parallels with President Eisenhower's critique of the military-industrial complex, highlighting the need for a shift towards a "peace industrial complex." They discuss the challenges of balancing military strength with diplomatic efforts.

Notable Quote:

"We need a strong and resilient and more permanent defense industrial complex. So we need both European weapons and American weapons." — Jamie Rubin [06:48]

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5. US-China Tensions and the Taiwan Situation

Key Question Addressed:

• Potential imminent war over Taiwan due to China's military buildup and its implications for US military policy.

Discussion Highlights:

Jamie Rubin addresses the growing military tensions between the US and China, particularly concerning Taiwan. He advocates for Taiwan to develop a "drone navy" to effectively deter Chinese blockades, drawing lessons from Ukraine's use of drones against the Russian navy ([09:30]).

They touch upon China's dual role in supporting both Russia and testing its drones in Ukraine, highlighting the complexities of China's geopolitical maneuvers.

Notable Quote:

"Taiwan should be doing it now and it will serve everybody's interest." — Jamie Rubin [10:31]

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6. Interviewing Prime Minister Netanyahu

Key Question Addressed:

• What question would the hosts ask Netanyahu if given the opportunity, and what should he be pressed on?

Discussion Highlights:

Christiane Amanpour expresses a desire to challenge Netanyahu on his long-standing refusal to pursue a peace deal with the Palestinians, questioning his commitment to a fair and just solution ([12:53]).

Jamie Rubin elaborates, suggesting that Netanyahu should be pressed on the existential threat posed by the unresolved Palestinian issue. He posits that achieving recognition from all neighboring countries would align with Israel's foundational goals, even at personal political costs ([12:53]).

Notable Quote:

"Mr. Prime Minister, that's what I would ask." — Christiane Amanpour [17:48]

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7. Reminiscing About Madeleine Albright

Key Question Addressed:

• Insights about Madeleine Albright from interactions with her.

Discussion Highlights:

Jamie Rubin shares personal anecdotes about Madeleine Albright, highlighting her sharp intellect, moral clarity, and effective diplomacy. He credits her leadership in stopping the Kosovo war before a genocide ensued, lauding her as a pivotal figure in Western diplomacy ([15:41]).

Christiane complements this by emphasizing Albright's commitment to moral principles and effective leadership in international crises.

Notable Quote:

"There was a plan, there was an end point. There was a positive result achieved by diplomacy backed by force." — Jamie Rubin [16:24]

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8. Personal Challenges as an Interfaith Couple

Key Question Addressed:

• Did the hosts face any challenges due to their interracial relationship?

Discussion Highlights:

Christiane addresses the question regarding challenges in her marriage, revealing that their primary struggles stemmed from suspicions about Rubin's loyalty and intentions rather than interracial issues per se. She recounts an incident with an immigration officer questioning their motives for entering the United States ([18:43]).

Jamie adds that while their professional lives sometimes invited scrutiny, their relationship endured external pressures without altering their personal bond.

Christiane humorously alludes to past public statements about their interfaith relationship, adding a personal touch to the discussion ([19:24]).

Notable Quote:

"I experienced challenges just being Iranian because always suspect by everybody." — Christiane Amanpour [19:24]

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9. Closing Remarks

Christiane and Jamie conclude the episode by encouraging listeners to submit more questions and stay connected via social media. They sign off with a light-hearted exchange about Jamie's plans to join a swimming pool, maintaining the episode's engaging and personable tone.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Ex Files delves into complex geopolitical issues with depth and candor. Amanpour and Rubin effectively blend their extensive experience and personal insights to address pressing questions, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current global landscape.

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Notable Moments with Timestamps:

• [01:12] Jamie Rubin introduces the topic on Iran-Israel war and the potential role of Pakistan.
• [02:31] Rubin discusses the need for external mediators in the Iran-Israel conflict.
• [04:58] Rubin emphasizes the urgency of supporting Ukraine amidst global order threats.
• [06:48] Rubin advocates for both European and American defense industrial revitalization.
• [09:30] Discussion on US-China tensions over Taiwan and the concept of a "drone navy."
• [12:53] Amanpour and Rubin outline the critical questions they would pose to Netanyahu.
• [15:41] Rubin shares memories of Madeleine Albright and her impact on Western diplomacy.
• [19:24] Amanpour reflects on personal challenges faced as an Iranian in an interracial marriage.

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For more insights and updates, follow Christiane Amanpour and Jamie Rubin on social media @amanpourpod or visit amanpodglobal.com.

Transcript

[Jamie Rubin]

This is a Global Player original podcast.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Hello and welcome to the bonus episode of the X Files with me, Christiana Manpour and Jamie Rubin. This is the Q and A episode where we answer your questions. So thank you to everyone who sent one in. Please do keep sending them and ask us about anything you'd like, from our experiences in the field to our encounters with world leaders. You can find us on social media and our handle is Amanpur Pod. Or email us. The address is amanpod global.com so let's get started. All right, Jamie, not surprisingly, the first group of questions is about the new war in the Middle East, America and Israel's attacks on Iran's nuclear and other targets. So we've got Salvi on Instagram, Joao on Instagram and Hassana on Instagram asking one, what do you think Israel and the US Will do with Iran if they successfully end the war? Does Europe have any influence over the war? And interestingly, does Pakistan have any relevance to the Iran Israel war? Would their involvement be important? Go on, Jamie.

[Jamie Rubin]

Well, let me start in reverse order. I think we may need an outside player, not the United States, not Israel, not to be the intermediary initially with Iran because of the fact that Iran believes the diplomacy was used as a mask to attack them. So they may want outside players to initiate the discussions to end this war. Pakistan could be plausible as a initial intermediary because they do have a very close relationship with Iran. In fact, remember when we traveled to Iran, I was brought into the head of the Iranian intelligence ministry, the top guy in their intelligence services. They brought me into his office and in the corner was a recognition type plaque indicating that the Pakistani intelligence and the Iranian intelligence had worked closely together. And so they may be valuable as an intermediary, but more likely, I would say, is the Europeans playing a role to initiate discussions to bring a war, this war, to an end so that the attacks on Israel, Iran and God forbid, the United States don't happen. Yeah. I think we may need outsiders.

[Christiana Amanpour]

It's interesting about the Pakistan question because just this week. Are you drinking coffee?

[Jamie Rubin]

Yes.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Is that what I can hear?

[Jamie Rubin]

I can hear the coffee tinkling, the tinkling of a coffee cup.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Yeah. The porcelain is clinking now, listen. Or the China or whatever you want to call it there. So Pakistan has decided to put President Trump forward for a Nobel Peace Prize for. No, hold on, don't laugh. For defusing. For defuse the India, Pakistan. But Jamie, you laugh. But I'm telling you, in a previous episode and very hawk eyed listeners and viewers will remember you saying that the only place Trump could possibly win a Nobel Prize was Iran. Yes, for a deal. But he's blown that, apparently. Anyway.

[Jamie Rubin]

Well, for now.

[Christiana Amanpour]

For now. Okay, next, relating to previous episodes. This is Veronique. And this is another issue dear to our heart, and that is the. The survival of Ukraine. Russia's invasion of Ukraine deeply shocked Europeans on all levels, including emotional. Across the Atlantic, Americans seem more distant, both geographically and psychologically. Do you think the American public is sufficiently informed and aware of the dangers and broader implications of this war, including for the international order? Okay, you answer, and then I'm going to add.

[Jamie Rubin]

All right, I think the short answer is no. Let me say, during the Biden administration, there was an effort made to sensitize Americans to the danger of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, to the international order, to the world of rules and rights, to my famous commandment, thou shalt not invade thy neighbor under President Trump. I think they're even less aware because President Trump wants to ignore the Ukraine issue. He wants to put it aside. He doesn't want to provide assistance to Ukraine. And the less he talks about it from his standpoint, the less he'll feel pressured to do something about it. He said he had ended in 24 hours. Obviously, that was baloney. And I think he. If he has his way, Americans will ignore it. But I don't think we should and can ignore something so fundamental. It's the most important single strategic event of my life for Russia to invade its neighbor Ukraine with hundreds of thousands of troops and to risk global order and at certain times, to risk the use of nuclear weapons. So we can't ignore it. We mustn't ignore it. We have to help the Ukrainians in every way we can.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And just to note, your lifespan has been precisely 64, five years, just in case anybody was wondering.

[Jamie Rubin]

Thank you very much for reminding me that I'm a retire official.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Yes, yes, yes. Now, I think that news is not paying enough attention. They're not enough reporters. In Ukraine, everybody has got a short attention plan and limited resources. And therefore, people are not being sent in as many numbers as they were in the first couple of years. And this is a danger because the only way the national populations abroad understand is when we, the storytellers are able to tell the stories and put them, you know, right there in front and center and for people to get even and especially the emotional connection with what other people are going through in an unjust and unprovoked invasion. So I do think that we need to do more, to sufficiently inform the American public and to keep it at the top of the agenda for world leaders. Not to forget. Jamie, Miles is referring to what you have said, that European countries should be encouraged to buy US Arms for Ukraine. But he's questioning even if this makes sense in the short term. Haven't we recently seen US Weapons supplies can be manipulated when it suits them. Meaning it'd be risky. Shouldn't European countries be more heavily incentivized to invest in sovereign weapons manufacturing?

[Jamie Rubin]

Good question.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And by the way, by the way, Miles mention that US Weapons can be used in ways that offend and are very destructive, like, for instance, in Gaza and so many around the world.

[Jamie Rubin]

He's talking about Europe here.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I know, but he's equating American weapons and people are equating the use of American weapons with what's happening in Gaza because they are American weapons. Carry on, Jamie.

[Jamie Rubin]

Right. They're American weapons being deployed wrongly by Israel to continue a war they should end. Now, to the question, I think that Europeans have to do both. That is, they should rebuild defense industrial complex of Europe that has been allowed to atrophy over these last decades. Europe needs to defend itself. The war in Ukraine demonstrates and has brought home to Europeans that fact. I read a fascinating article about two towns in France that are now being revived because of the defense industry spending that's going to happen as a result of Europeans realizing they need to spend roughly twice as much on defense as they have in the past. But American weapons can be valuable as well. What I'd like to see, and I'll say it again, is if Trump were smart, he would help rebuild the American defense industrial complex by leveraging American weapons, saying, we'll spend a billion on weapons for Ukraine. If you buy $10 billion worth of American weapons for Ukraine, that would be an easy deal to make. That would be good for Europe, good for the United States, and especially good for Ukraine and good for the defense industrial complex. Because of the threat from Russia and China, we need a strong and resilient and more permanent defense industrial complex. So we need both European weapons and American weapons.

[Christiana Amanpour]

My goodness, you've said that word so many times. And all I can think about is President Eisenhower who said that it was time to move beyond that and get to some kind of peace industrial complex. The defense industrial complex was called out by President Eisenhower. Eisenhower, right.

[Jamie Rubin]

Back in the 50s military industrial complex.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Okay, well, the same damn thing, right? I'm trying to be precise, okay? But the precision here is that there aren't leaders who will take us to the peace industrial complex? Who will take the hard, no hard, hard work of negotiating and using their good offices to get leaders to make peace and thus be less dependent on these industrial complexes which are, you know, take away from actual people's well being and health, etc. Here we go. Questions relating to. No, this is Kathy on email. During last week's episode. Jamie, they keep calling you out and not me. Jamie mentioned that a war could be imminent in the next few years if China wants to take Taiwan back into the fold. Chinese are doing a significant buildup of weapons and I fear the current US administration could repeal the Military Service act of 1973 as a result. I don't know what that means. Jamie, what are your thoughts? But you've just talked about the military defense. Defense industrial complex for China too.

[Jamie Rubin]

One of the things I'd like to put out again on this podcast.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Again, great.

[Jamie Rubin]

Again, I think I did it at the beginning. It may, we may not have used it. And again and again the Ukrainians have shown how drones can be used at sea to bring the Russian navy defeat the Russian navy essentially in, in, in the region, in the Caspian. I'd like to see Taiwan build a drone navy so that they can prevent China from trying to blockade Taiwan with sh. They are engaged in the largest military buildup of history of naval ships, missiles and strategic nuclear forces. The Chinese. One of the ways to deter war by the Chinese against Taiwan would be to have tens of thousands of naval drones to threaten a naval blockade. And that would work and Ukraine can teach Taiwan how to do it. And Taiwan is the best placed country I can think of to build a drone navy. They should be doing it now and it will serve everybody's interest.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Jamie, I heard from a well placed Ukrainian that in fact the Chinese or Chinese, you know, quasi governmental are sending drones to Ukraine in order to test their new weapons for the first time and see how they perform on the battlefield.

[Jamie Rubin]

Yeah, that sounds like the Chinese playing both sides because we know they're helping the Russians with their building of actual drones for Russia on Russian terror territory. We know the Chinese are helping them economically and building, helping their military industrial complex with all sorts of parts and, and provisions. So they're obviously playing both sides, which is one of the reasons Russians don't really trust the Chinese. But they have to support them now because China's their only real big supporter.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Now. This is more relating to our career and personal lives in general. So Francisca or Francisca or Francesca on email. Christian, if you ever had the opportunity to interview Netanyahu, what question would you most like to ask him? Also, Jamie, what do you think Netanyahu should be pressed on in an interview? So I am going to say I have never been given an interview with Netanyahu. I've tried since 1996, guys, when he was first elected and I covered his first election. And even once I ran into him, as I explained on the last podcast, and he said he'd give me an interview, just get his guy to set it up. And I got his guy and he didn't set it up. Anyway, here we go. If I had the opportunity now, in the midst of this Iran war, but most importantly, in the midst of this war of attrition on Gaza and its people, I think I would ask him, Mr. Netanyahu, why have you spent your entire career trying to sabotage any peace deal that leads to a fair and just solution for both people in the Israel, Palestinian situation? Your former, many former and maybe even present security, defense and intelligence officials say that the greatest existential threat to Israel is the unresolved Palestinian question. And surely it would be better and safer for you all to do that. That's what I would ask him.

[Jamie Rubin]

And I think you're right, and he should be pressed on it in the following way. Ever since the founding of Israel, the goal of Israeli leaders has been for Israel to be accepted by its neighbors, to be recognized by its neighbors in peace and security. With the fall of Assad in Syria and a new regime there with the fall of Hezbollah or the weakening of Hezbollah in Lebanon, and with Saudi indicating a willingness to recognize Israel, what needs to be done is a peace process in Gaza that lays out the path to a Palestinian state that will achieve the dream of Israel's founders, the recognition by the neighbors, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia. Now already they have Jordan and Egypt and they have the uae and they have Qatar and one other country from the Abraham Accords that I forget right now, maybe Morocco. But they could achieve their full recognition by all their neighbors if they would end the war in Gaza and establish a path to a Palestinian state. And wouldn't that dream and that power be worthwhile even if it cost you your prime ministership? So what? You spent six months in jail for some petty offense. So what?

[Christiana Amanpour]

Hang on, explain that. What petty?

[Jamie Rubin]

Well, because right now he's refusing to make a deal on the Gaza question because members of his coalition are threatening to end his prime ministership if he does that. And if it's ended, then he faces criminal justice. So what I would say to him for what? For alleged bribery schemes involving champagne and cigars and Israeli media and things like that. So Ehud Olmert, one of his predecessors, had a similar charges and went to jail and it wasn't a high security prison and he came out and he's a perfectly sane person. And imagine if you could do that and have achieved single handedly the goals of all of Israel's founders, wouldn't it be worth a short jail sentence? Mr. Prime Minister, that's what I would ask.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I, I, I'm going to take those words and put them to him. If I ever get in, in, in front of him, I will. Right, another one. I've all this is Adrienne on email. I've always admired Madeline Albright as you both knew her. Would you share something about her from your interactions with her which made her such a special effective politician? Well, Jamie, since you know her so much better, I'm just going to say very briefly that she was one hell of a dame and she was so sharp in her speech and so clear in her, you know, moral compass and she really wanted to do the right things in places like Bosnia, Ukraine and all the other places. So I really admired her and really liked her too.

[Jamie Rubin]

She was someone I, the closest person I ever worked with in my whole life professionally. We were together seven and a half years or so. I traveled the world with her. When there was one person to travel with Madeline, it was usually me. So I really spent an enormous amount of time with her during those seven and a half years. And it was the, you know, one of the best experiences of my life. When I resigned, as you may remember, Christiane, because you were going to have a baby. We were. And I needed to move to London. And she told me, jamie, this is the best job you're ever going to have. And she's been half right. It was one of the best jobs I'll ever have, maybe my last, who knows, after Biden. But I would say that the thing that people should remember her for, you mentioned it. Moral clarity. You know, the Secretary of State is not the President can't make decisions for the United States, but can be the principal advisor. I think it was Madeleine Albright's firmness and clarity and lucidity that helped Bill Clinton decide very early on to stop the war in Kosovo before a genocide happened. There's never been a case like that where a genocide was prevented by the United States. And the Economist magazine, to my pleasure, declared that June 1999, when the war in Kosovo ended, was the height of European civilization was the moment when Europeans and Americans got together, united to stop the slaughter in Kosovo, bring peace to Kosovo. And they economists declared it the height of west or European civilization. I would call it the height of Western civilization. And I was privileged to be part of that because of what Madeleine did and said and the way Bill Clinton trusted and respected her and allowed her to lead the diplomacy. And that was a case of diplomacy backed by force. There was a plan, there was an end point. There was a positive result achieved by diplomacy backed by force. That is what we desperately need right now in the Middle East. We have lots of force but not much diplomacy.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And I think Israel and Trump would be good, you know, well placed to go and review that process because you're right, that was a pretty unique time. Now, AI on Instagram says no al on Instagram regarding your marriage. At the time it was still considered controversial to be in an interracial relationship. There's a question mark there, I think maybe. Was it still considered? Did you experience any challenges as a result? So he might mean inter religious, you know, you're Jewish. I'm Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my dad Muslim. I don't know. To me, it was part of the ongoing multi culty, you know, life I'd led. I don't know. What do you think? Did we experience challenges? I experienced challenges just being an Iranian because always suspect by everybody.

[Jamie Rubin]

I would say that we are. Some of the challenges we faced was more about journalists and government official and, you know, people questioning whether I was telling you secrets and people questioning whether you were, you know, doing the government's bidding. Neither of which happened. But there was a case one time where an immigration officer was sort of implying some racial ethnic thing where we were coming into the United States and they thought you were trying to purposely get Darius born in the United States because you were pregnant and he was challenging you and it was appalling. And his boss just said, forget about it and they let us right through. But I guess that's the closest I can imagine.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Well, actually, should I, should I spill these beans? Didn't you say publicly, maybe even to the Financial Times or the Jewish Forward? Didn't you say, all things being equal, I would have married a Jewish girl, but all things aren't equal. I made you pay for that. That was, that was.

[Jamie Rubin]

You sure did.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Oh, man. Oh, man. That's it. That's all we have time for. So thank you for listening to the bonus episode of the X Files with me, Christiana Manpour and Jamie Rubin, remember? Of course. If you have a question for us that you'd like us to. To answer next time about something in the news or about something we've done during our careers, you can find us on all the major social media platforms. Our handle is @amanpourpod. Or email us. We're amanpodlobal.com now. Our next episode is out on Tuesday, wherever you get your podcast. And remember, you can listen for free on Global Player. You can download it from the App Store or go to globalplayer.com and if you hear any clinks of China and porcelain, that's Jamie again, slamming down his coffee cup. Bye, bye.

[Jamie Rubin]

Bye, bye. How is my downloading going?

[Christiana Amanpour]

Hang on. We haven't. We haven't finished, Jamie. Oh, okay.

[Jamie Rubin]

All right, I'm gonna leave you guys. I'm jumping in the swimming pool, just so you know.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Swimming pool. Oh, right, yes. You're in the Hamptons. Jesus Christ. We all need one of those.

[Jamie Rubin]

Did you say something that I missed?

[Christiana Amanpour]

No, no. Just go to the swimming pool. Go, go, go, go.

[Jamie Rubin]

Goodbye. This is a Global Player original podcast.