← Church History Matters
Church History Matters
154 - D&C 104-105 CFM - God’s People Tested with Money & Zions Camp - E38B September 15-21
02:09:31
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, Casey.
- [00:01]
B
Hi, Scott. We're back, and we're covering the second half of section 102 to 105. Lot to talk about here. And the through line is Zion's Camp. We just recorded a wonderful conversation with a great historian, Matt Godfrey, who literally wrote the book on Zion's Camp. And we threw every question we could think of at him, and he batted a thousand. So look for that coming out around the same time that this is coming out. But what we didn't do with Matt was go through the Revelations verse by verse. Matt, the history, and brought in all kinds of sources that we hadn't thought of. But we still need to cover these verses of section 104 and especially section 105 that have to do with the ongoing troubles in Missouri and the march of Zion's Camp.
- [00:45]
A
He is so fun and such a clear thinker, and I thought he was. He did great at explaining some of the intricacies and the nuances of Zion's Camp. So definitely check that episode out as well. It's a bonus content this week, Voices of the Restoration content. So go check that out for sure. Okay. Well, with that, then, Casey, should we dive into section 104? Sometimes we think of section 104 as kind of disconnected from the history of what's going on in Missouri with, you know, the expulsion in Jackson county and then this, you know, the discussions about how the Saints in Kirtland can help and all that. And sometimes we set section 104 aside as kind of a financial section. But, Cayce, isn't it a little more embedded in the history than that?
- [01:30]
B
It does feel like a detour, because Section 104 is primarily a revelation on church finances. But the reason why the church's finances had to be reorganized, which is what Section 104 essentially does, is because of this crisis that's ongoing in Missouri. And so section 104 is received as Joseph Smith is getting ready to go with Zion's Camp to Missouri, but deals with some really pressing financial matters about how they're going to assist the members in Missouri that have been displaced and how they're going to continue to seek to live the law of consecration now that the members in Missouri have practically no means to support themselves. So it's enmeshed in what's going on, and it contains some financial principles that I think are still really pertinent to what the Church does today with its finances. So it's one of those sections that you shouldn't skip over just because it feels Like a detour from the main storyline here.
- [02:29]
A
Yeah. Recall back in sections 78 and 82, the Lord did something with church leaders in Kirtland and church leaders in Missouri. He united them in what was called a united firm. Right. And there was like some key elements in Missouri that are no longer operative. Right. We've got like the. The printing press that Phelps and Oliver Cowdery were in charge of. Right. And you've got Sidney Gilbert. He had a dry goods store and both of those have been ransacked, destroyed. So, like some key elements of the United Firm have now been destroyed. They're not moneymakers now, they're just liabilities. So there needs to be some reorganization just because of that. Right?
- [03:08]
B
Yeah. I mean, the printing press in Missouri was literally thrown out the window of the second floor of W.W. phelps's home. And so obviously they're going to have to do some restructuring. But it's not just troubles that are happening in Missouri either. About 900 miles away in Kirtland, we've got an apostate member of the church. We've mentioned him before. His name is Dr. Philastas Hurlbut. Doctor's his first name. He's not actually a doctor. So he is trying to undermine the United Firm and the property that it's owned in Kirtland because he's trying to obtain this property and he's bringing up lawsuits, continuous lawsuits against the Church that are racking up legal fees and travel expenses. And so it's looking too like this is kind of a two front war in Missouri. They're facing open persecution in Kirtland, they're facing financial persecution. The bad guys are doing everything they can to try and bring down the church, particularly the finances of the church. So most of these difficulties, a lot of them are financial in nature. Joseph becomes concerned that unless the situation in Kirtland is remedied, he might not be able to go to Missouri and help the Saints there, which is what he really wants to do. So here's a bit of context. In a letter that he writes to ORSON HYDE On April 7, 1834, Joseph writes, he laments, unless we can obtain help, I myself cannot go to Zion. And if I do not go, it will be impossible to get my brethren in Kirtland, any of them, to go. And if we do not go, it is in vain for our Eastern brethren to think of going. So Joseph Smith, if I don't get this fixed, I can't go. If I don't go, I don't think a Lot of people in the Kirtland will go. And I think there's a domino effect that the other branches of the church that Hyrum Smith is out recruiting and aren't going to make it. So during this time, Joseph Smith meets in prayer with Oliver Cowdery and Noel K. Whitney and Heber C. Kimball Campbell and Frederick G. Williams to pray and ask for guidance. And in his history, he writes that they met in the council room and bowed down before the Lord and prayed that he would furnish the means to deliver the firm from debt, that they might be set at liberty. Also that I might prevail against that wicked man Hurlbut, and that he might be put to shame. The issues with Dr. Philastus Hurlbut are resolved a few days later when Hurlbut loses his lawsuit and was placed under a bond to keep the peace and was ordered to pay all legal costs. So some of things work themselves out. But the real big question here is how do we save the United Firm, which the Lord set up earlier in section 78 and section 82? So on April 10, the members of the United Firm in Kirtland meet and agree that the firm should be dissolved and that each member should have what have been designated as their stewardship in the revelations to be given them as private property. So they're going to reorganize. But the first step in reorganization is to go back to basics, give everybody their stewardship back. They are making attempts to try and save this, too. So in the hopes of obtaining funds that the dissolution of the firm might be unnecessary, they delay for two weeks. And on April 23rd, the members of the firm meet again and they receive section 104. We'll get into it. But the big thing that this revelation instructs them to do is to reorganize the firm into two different orders. One's going to be in Ohio and the other's going to be in Missouri. And the Lord also instructed them concerning the church's properties and how to deal with debts incurred by church members. There's an unpublished revelation received around this time. It's not in the Doctrine and covenants. That's given five days after Section 104 that declared that the Kirtland branch of the firm was free from the Firm of Zion. And members of the original order still receive their individual stewardships as determined back on October. April 10th. So Missouri is such a. Such a legal tangle right now that they're going to separate the Kirtland interests of the firm. And then they're going to reorganize. So when section 104 gets published in the Doctrine and Covenants, which it's published in 1835, the names of the leaders in this are given code names. That's another phenomenon we talked about earlier in the Doctrine and Covenants. But most Revelations, they had to do with church finance. They use code names. For them. The name United Firm was replaced with United Order, which we've talked about before, caused a lot of church leaders throughout the 19th century, including Brigham Young, to refer to consecration in Joseph Smith's time as the United Order. But that term doesn't actually appear in the original Revelation, just shows up in the published version of the Doctrine and Covenants. On the surface, it appears to just deal with these immediate financial concerns in Kirtland and Missouri. However, there's a lot of principles of church finance found in section 104 concerning stewardships and resources and avoiding debt that became important to the Church and are still used as guidelines for the Church today in its financial dealings. And church gets a lot of attention over finance. This is kind of one of the key financial documents that explains the nature of finances within the Church.
- [08:10]
A
The upshot of the backstory here is that because of the troubles in Missouri and some litigation in Kirtland with the Hurlbut, there needs to be what was united between Missouri and Kirtland. There needs to be a dislodging of the two. There needs to be a Missouri firm and a Kirtland firm. And this is going to. This revelation is then going to work through kind of the details of what that's going to look like and kind of lay out the new order of things. Is that basically what's going on here?
- [08:39]
B
Yeah, it's a restructuring of the United Firm that just allows them to kind of move forward with everything that's happened in Missouri and Kirtland. So it's primarily financial revelation, and it deals with a lot of things linked to that. But again, the principles of church finance are found in this section as well and a number of other places. Sometimes people are surprised at how much the Doctrine and Covenants talks about finance, but the truth is, that's a big deal. That's how you feed and take care of your family. And the Lord is concerned with them being able to do that. But also take care of the poor and needy.
- [09:13]
A
Yeah, for sure. And I think one thing that's going to surprise us about section 104 is that the Lord will say that this didn't have to be the case that it's because of transgression that this came about. So let's dive into the content and let's go check out what the Lord has to say. Okay, so section 104, verse 1, the Lord says to this Kirtland contingency of the united firm, verily I say unto you, my friends, I give unto you counsel and a commandment concerning all the properties which belong to the order. Read firm there. Every time you see order in this section, just place the word firm there, which I commanded to be organized and established to be a united firm and an everlasting firm, for the benefit of my church and for the salvation of men until I come. Now, this idea that this was meant to be an everlasting firm harkens back to section 82, where he said that this would go on forever and ever if they kept their covenants. And the fact that here we are two years later, and we're dissolving this firm, the united firm, and breaking it into two firms tells us that something happened in that regard. Casey. And that's where he goes on to say in verses two through four, he says with a promise, immutable is what I gave you and unchangeable. That inasmuch as those who I commanded were faithful, faithful, they should be blessed with a multiplicity of blessings. But inasmuch as they were not faithful, they were nigh unto cursing. Therefore, inasmuch as some of my servants have not kept the commandment, but have broken the covenant through covetousness and with feigned words, I have cursed them with a very sore and grievous curse. Wow. Okay. So he is now laying it on pretty heavy here. Remember back in section 82, he said that they were to covenant with one another, to be bound to one another in this firm, that they would all be very upright and honest, and everyone in the firm would do their part in their stewardship to bring to pass the flourishing of the firm. Right. Well, that hasn't happened, because he says of covetousness. And by the way, he had already warned about that back in section 98. In fact, verses 19 through 22. This is about eight months earlier in this revelation, the Lord expressed his displeasure toward the saints in Kirtland. Here's what he said. Remember these verses, quote? For they do not forsake their sins and their wicked ways, the pride of their hearts and their covetousness. There's that word again. And all their detestable things. And observe the words of wisdom and eternal life which I have given unto them. Verily I say unto you that I the Lord will chasten them and will do whatsoever I listen if they do not repent and observe all things whatsoever I have said unto them. And again I say unto you, if ye observe to do whatsoever I command you, I the Lord will turn away all wrath and indignation from you, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. That was his warning and promise there back eight months earlier. But now we're in this crisis and the Lord is unfortunately heading the way of not blessing, but the way of cursing. He goes on verse five to use that word. He says, for I the Lord have decreed in my heart that inasmuch as any man belonging to the Order or the firm shall be found a transgressor, or in other words, shall break the covenant with which ye are bound, he shall be cursed in his life and shall be trodden down by whom I will. For I the Lord am not to be mocked in these things for all this, that the innocent among you may not be condemned with the unjust, and that the guilty among you may not escape, because I the Lord, have promised unto you a crown of glory at my right hand. So it sounds like there's. The stakes are very high here. If you are true and faithful in these covenant bonds that the Lord had put these men in, the reward was very, very high. Crowns of glory, he says. So on the other hand, the curse will be commensurate on the other direction, right as he says verse eight. Like, inasmuch as you're found transgressors, you cannot escape my wrath in your lives. And he goes on, I mean, verse 10, he talks about delivering them over to the buffetings of Satan. The consequences for breaking covenant here, Casey, like are heavy. Like the Lord does not take covenant lightly, nor the breaking of it. And so that's how I make sense of the heaviness of these words here in verses 5 through 10.
- [13:37]
B
And this is foreshadowed in the revelations that set up the united Firm. Where much is given, much is required. And he that receiveth the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation. Basically saying that they leveled up, they were subject to higher expectations. I mean, he is calling out individual members of the order and saying that they were guilty of covetousness. And we need to keep in mind that entering into the Order came at considerable sacrifice. But this was a tough thing to ask people to do. It's still a tough thing that we ask people to do today. And it feels like finance Is one of those things that becomes an Achilles heel for a lot of people when they're asked to sacrifice financially. That's when they start to sort of struggle. For instance, is there evidence that the saints in Kirtland, the people in the United Order, may have been guilty of covetousness? Let me share this story by Brigham Young. Okay. So Brigham Young told this story in a discourse given later on. But he said, in the fall of 1833, many of the brethren had gathered to Kirtland and not finding suitable employment and having some difficulty in getting their pay, after they had labored, several went off to Willoughby, Painesville, and Cleveland. These are all the towns around Kirtland. I told them I had gathered to Kirtland because I was so directed by the prophet of God. And I was not going away to Willoughby, Painesville, Cleveland, nor anywhere else to build up the Gentiles. But I was going to stay here and seek the things that pertain to the kingdom of God by listening to the teachings of his servants. And I should work for my brethren and trust in God and them that I would be paid. I labored for Brother Cahoon and finished his house. And although he did not know he could pay me when I commenced, before I finished the job, he'd paid me in full. I then went to work for Father John Smith and others who paid me and sustained myself in Kirtland. And when the brethren who had gone out to work for the Gentiles returned, I had means, though some of them were scant. So it seems like from Brigham Young's observation, and he is in the Kirtland community at this point, he's saying that some of the saints hadn't fully committed to working to serve and benefit the community, which is what the order was really intended to do. The lack of commitment to the law of consecration meant that they weren't fully living the principles. And because the Lord uses this word in verse 4 of section 104, because of their feigned words, the order was cursed and did not prosper. In other words, sounds like the Lord feels like they're paying lip service and saying, yeah, this all sounds good, but when the rubber hits the road, they weren't actually committed to living it. And again, we don't want to be condemnatory or draw too many parallels, but there are a lot of people that will pay lip service to consecration and say, yes, I love the church. But then when you ask, ask them to sacrifice or give up something, it becomes a. A much harder thing for them. To do. They weren't acting in faith, they were just feigning faith.
- [16:35]
A
Yeah. And let's go to verse 11. I want to look at this verse too, because there's a little transition here. He says, it is wisdom in me, therefore a commandment I give unto you that ye shall organize yourselves and appoint every man his stewardship. So here's part of the reorganization here. The Lord's going to direct members of the firm to take the firm's collective assets and divide them into individual stewardships. Again, the original 1981 edition of Doctrine and Covenants is going to use code names for everyone that he's about to mention here. These code names were primarily to prevent individuals from litigation by enemies of the Church. Right. But as soon as, I mean, all these people were dead and there was no chance of litigation, then we felt like 1981 was safe enough to now publish their actual name. So the names we're going to see in the. In the next couple verses are going to be their actual names. But when this was published originally, they were. They were code. So. Okay. Before we get to those code names, though, listen to what the Lord says here in verse 12. He says that every man may give an account unto me of the stewardship which is appointed on him. There's still going to be stewardship, and you still need to. You're going to be accountable for it. For it is expedient that I, the Lord, should make every man accountable as a steward over earthly blessings which I have made and prepared for my creatures. I, the Lord, stretched out the heavens and built the earth, my very handiwork, and all things therein are mine. That's a super important, like, foundational truth. To understand the law of consecration, you start with that premise. Everything is God's. I created all of it, verse 15. And it's my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine. But it must needs be done in my own way. And behold, this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints. That the poor shall be exalted in that the rich are made low beyond.
- [18:22]
B
Just the way property was divvied up in Kirtland. You can see here that the revelation highlights the importance of stewardship in the law of consecration. We dealt with this when we went over section 42. But sometimes the assumption was that the law of consecration was just everybody owned everything together. And you can go into my house and borrow my flour, or I can go into your house and take your spoon and no, it was organized strictly around stewardships. From the time the law is first revealed, the Lord emphasized stewardship. You can go all the way back to section 42, 32, and he's emphasizing there. And it seems like while members in Kirtland sacrificed to elevate the situation of the poor and the needy, they were also given a commandment to manage their individual stewardships, which were essentially considered private property. So we're splitting the difference between total communitarianism and sacrificing from your own goods, your own stewardship. At the same time, the use of the word stewardship implies and reminds them that everything they own really belongs to God. To become good stewards, they were being asked to be led by God to find a way to use their temporal and spiritual blessings to bless the lives of others. And that's still like, a major question that everybody has to wrestle with is, you know, you've been given these gifts. How much can you sacrifice to try and help other people? And how much are you willing to give up? I mean, we still ask hard things of the members of the church. A bishop or relief society president might put in multiple hours. They might be making financial sacrifices. But is their end game in mind, the kingdom of God? Do they recognize that that's why they've been given the things that they have in the first place? There's a huge difference between saying, look at everything that I've accumulated and saying, look at all the things God has blessed me with. Now I'm going to use them to bless his other children.
- [20:15]
A
Yeah. And it is so easy, living in the day in which we live, to have our mind flick to the me. My mindset, right? That I worked hard. I own this stuff. This is mine. We can do it with our children, too, right? We can say, these children are mine. And in a way, of course, that's appropriate. But the Lord will remind us, like, they're on loan right now. Like, they're my kids first. They were my kids first, right? Or even like Paul will say in Corinthians, he's like, your body's not even yours, right? You were bought with a price through the blood of Christ. So it's easy for it to feel like it's ours, right? This is mine, this is mine. I've worked. This is. Nobody can tell me what to do with my stuff. Nobody can tell me how to raise my kids. Nobody can tell me what to do with my body, right? But this other mindset the Lord is trying to get us into, it's beautiful and it's challenging, Right. He's saying, I am the one that created the earth. You can't argue with that. Everything that you have comes from me. Right. Remember this, like your body, your kids, your stuff. It's all. It was mine first, and I've given it to you as a trust. Will you then use that to bless other people? Will you use that for the purposes that I've asked you to use it for? And that requires a choice within us because we can actually say, no, we don't have to do it. And that's therein lies the tension. Right. The test, if you will.
- [21:33]
B
Yeah. And in the next verse, take a look at verse 17, because I think this could be one of the most controversial verses in the Doctrine and Covenants. It reads, for the earth is full and there is enough and to spare. Yea, I have prepared all things and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves. Sometimes people look at that and say, well, the earth is full and there's enough to spare. And then they go back and say stuff like, so we don't have to worry about managing resources. You know, I've heard people cite this verse when we were talking about like global starvation or being really cautious with the resources. Environmentalism, right? The earth is full. Yeah, the Lord did all this. But they kind of miss the fact that in the very same verse, the Lord makes this statement. He says, I have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves. Which shows that, yes, the Lord has given us a lot. And you've got to admit that we've been given a lot. Like, we are so blessed and fortunate as a people. I know there's people out there that are struggling financially. I get it and I understand it. But the Lord intends for us to be stewards over these resources. We're supposed to take care of things. It's not a scarcity of resources, but mismanagement of resources that causes most of the poverty and suffering in the world. We just witnessed this again and again when we have have debates over the 1% and the 99% that we do have enough to take care of everybody. But sometimes we get so caught up in the accumulation of things that we forget why we were given the things in the first place and what we're really supposed to do with them. So I want to be clear here. The gospel does not condemn people for having money. In fact, what it implies is that the Lord blesses people that keep his commandments, but it is a little condemnatory of those who might hoard their resources and just, just make the accumulation of wealth the driving force in their lives. Once you've got those resources, what are you going to do to help people? And you and I both know people that have done very, very well for themselves, but they're generous with what they do and they bless a lot of lives because they don't hoard their money. They see it as a way for them to bless others.
- [23:55]
A
And of course, God would love to pour out his abundance upon them on people like that. To be generous and covetousness back up in verse four is a real, real temptation for those who have and those who have not. It's a temptation that goes both ways. And when you're talking Casey, about wealth, like look at verse 16 again, this might be the most controversial verse in this section, at least the end part, where he says that the poor shall be exalted in that the rich are made low. I don't think there's any wealthy person, rich person that feels totally comfortable with that verse. The Lord is saying, I want you to in some ways become less rich by lifting others up with what you've got. As you said, don't hoard it.
- [24:49]
B
What does it mean that the rich shall be made low? He specifically doesn't say the poor shall be made rich and the rich shall be made poor. Could be one way to read through the. He says, the poor shall be exalted and the rich shall be made low. Which. What does it mean to be made low? It could mean that you give up some of the wealth that you've accumulated, but it could also mean that you don't let your wealth become the thing that makes you think you're of worth, essentially, that you choose to be made low because you're humble in spite of the things that you've been blessed with.
- [25:23]
A
We're not talking about a perfect distribution of wealth or anything like that, but he does seem to want the rich to give of their stuff so that the poor have more and can thrive. Right? I mean, am I, am I misreading that?
- [25:33]
B
A lot of times people will quote this phrase from the New Testament. Money is the root of all evil. Paul said that. But is that what Paul actually said? What did he actually say, Scott?
- [25:44]
A
The love of money is the root of all evil.
- [25:47]
B
Yeah, I think that's what he's talking about, is a person that is high, maybe even high on their own supply. Like, I made a million bucks. I'm the best person ever. I should be allowed to do anything that I want to. Is Maybe in danger, the money is neutral. Right? Money isn't good or bad. It's what a person chooses to do with it. There are some people that accumulated money and became miserable and wicked and sad. And there's other people throughout history, the great philanthropists, people like Andrew Carnegie. Every dinky little town in the United States has a Carnegie library because this rich guy named Andrew Carnegie decided that that one thing he could do to make the world a better place was to build a library in every little town. That honestly, the money is not the problem. It's the love of money. It's the heights to which you see yourself reaching. Or if you see the money as a gift from God, as something that you can use to do good in the world. I mean, that seems to be the central thing that all scripture deals with with money is it's not evil in and of itself. It's what it does to a person that can sometimes be evil.
- [26:58]
A
Yeah. And so that is a perfect segue into verse 18. So again, this is the Lord talking to those who have an abundance. He says, therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made and impart not his portion, according to the law of my Gospel unto the poor and the needy. These are strong words, Casey. He shall with the wicked lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment. Now, those who know their New Testament know that he just riffed off of in verses 17 and 18. Here he's riffing off of the parable of the rich man. And Lazarus, remember this parable, right? Where there's this rich man who refuses to help this guy named Lazarus, who was a beggar who lives in the most difficult, you know, impoverished conditions. And after they both die, then the rich man looks up from hellfire and he sees who else but Lazarus, who now is actually content in Abraham's bosom. This is the way the story is told. And when the rich man begs for relief, Abraham tells him and says, son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivest thy goods. And likewise, Lazarus received evil things, but now he is comforted and thou art tormented. It's like, oh, let me quote a little bit from Luke 16 here, verse 22 and 23, it says, and it came to pass that the beggar died, Lazarus, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And in hell, he, the rich man, lift up his eyes, being in torment. That's the phrase the Lord just used in verse 18. Here he shall with the wicked, lift up his eyes in Hell being in torment. Almost an exact quote. But then the story goes on this. This rich man cries out, he sees Lazarus, this poor guy, in Abraham's bosom, in this, like, paradisiacal place in the spirit world called Abraham's bosom. And he sees Abraham there and he cries out and he says, father Abraham, have mercy on me. Send Lazarus to dip a finger in water and come and cool my tongue. And because I'm tormented in this flame, Abraham simply says, son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivest thy goods. And likewise, Lazarus received evil things, but now he is comforted and thou art tormented. It's like, whoo. Like, this is so intense. It seems like the message here is clear. And it goes back to what you're saying, Casey, that money is neither good or evil, right? We get to determine our eternal fate in part by how we use it. And those who hide and hoard their money, like this rich man, will find themselves in torment. Meanwhile, those who give of their abundance and seek to find ways to lift and help everyone around them with what they have will find themselves rewarded, I think, with blessings in the next life. Peace in the bosom of Abraham, where money is meaningless, right? It's like money is this thing now that it helps us to become more of what we are. If we lean into the now natural, carnal, sensual, devilish nature, money is just going to, like, exaggerate that, right? But if we're trying to become saints through the atonement of Christ the Lord, the money is going to be an incredible tool that we will be able to use to help build his kingdom, right? And to help bless others. And so money is neutral, but, boy, it can magnify what we're already becoming, right? Like, it almost reveals what kind of person we're becoming.
- [30:27]
B
But he also teaches the. That it doesn't exist in the next life, right? Just to call to mind another one of the Savior's sayings, the whole it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And I know there's all kinds of. There's reams and reams written on what that means, and even stuff about a gate in Jerusalem where the camel had to take everything off and put it back on again. But to me, the simplest interpretation of that brief saying is because it's just impossible to take money with you into the next life. Like, you can't get a camel through the eye of a needle. And when you get to the next life you're not going to have your nice house or your nice car or your bank account. All of that just doesn't come with you. And the Savior was trying to say, hey, focus on the things that matter eternally. I don't think it was a condemnation of rich people. He was just saying that there aren't any rich people in the next life. The metrics we use to measure success here on earth all become irrelevant when we go into the next life and make your choices based on that long term knowledge.
- [31:32]
A
This is the only place in scripture where the phrase law of my gospel is and that language will be familiar to those who have been to the temple been endowed. There's a covenant to obey the law of the gospel. Whether that is talking here about imparting of your substance to the poor, or more generally the law of faith, repentance, baptism, Holy Ghost, I don't know. It's kind of left a little ambiguous. But I find it really interesting that verse 18 of section 104 is the only place where love the Gospel is mentioned in scripture. And it's in this context of being generous with what God has blessed you with.
- [32:09]
B
Hugh and I, we were eating lunch with some friends a few days ago and they told about this guy who had donated to a lot of nonprofits, a very great guy who had been on several missions, but his health just wouldn't permit him to serve another mission. And when he donated, he said, I'm going to send my money on a mission. That's still one way I can affect change. If I can't get out of the house because of my health, I can use the resources that I've been blessed with to help others. The next few verses, basically 1946, I think we're going to speed through a little bit because mostly what's happening here is the Lord is just dividing the properties of the united firm into individual stewardship among its members. And for the most part, the assets described here were deeded to the members who were already using those properties. The legal ownership changed from the united firm to the individual. So to just cite a couple examples, Sidney rigdon In verse 20, let my servant Sidney Rigdon have appointed unto him the place where he now resides and the lot of the tannery for his stewardship, for his support while laboring in the vineyard. So the tannery belonged to the united firm, but Sidney was the person that was in charge of it and taking care of it. Sidney, you're going to use that for your stewardship.
- [33:20]
A
Now, a little known fact about Sidney Rigdon is that before he became a super well known preacher in that area, before he joined the church, he had been a tanner, like he was a tanner of hides. Like there's actually a skill set that Sidney had. Anyway, I just smile when I see verse 20. And the Lord says, you get the tannery because Sidney, you know how to use that, so use it. That's good.
- [33:40]
B
You see the same thing in verse 24. Martin Harris is getting given a lot of land. Frederick g. Williams, verse 27. Have the place upon which he now dwells. Oliver Cowdery, verse 28. Have the lot which is set off joining the house, which is to be for the printing office. Oliver's going to run and set up the printing establishment in Kirtland now that the one in Missouri has been destroyed. And that's where the 1835 first called Doctrine and Covenants set of Revelations is going to be printed and so on and so forth. 34. John Johnson, if you go down a little bit further, Newell K. Whitney, who has a lot of things that he has done, his mercantile establishment, his Asheri, this is all stuff you can visit in Kirtland today, by the way. If you go, they've rebuilt the Ashri and his mercantile establishment is still there. And even Joseph Smith, verse 43, he's going to have appointed unto him the lot which is laid off for the building of my house. Again, if you go to Kirtland, you can see how all of this kind of is laid out together. But there's the Kirtland temple, there's a cemetery. And then the next lot down is where Joseph's house is, which has been newly restored and people can now tour. And the changes that the Lord is making here just kind of reflect an important thing that we overlook with the law of consecration was that it was flexible, that it was based on principles that could be used and then altered based on the needs of the time. So the United Firm undoubtedly played an important role and could have played a greater role like the Lord says, if they hadn't been so covetous. But the needs of the church were changing. In fact, here's the way one scholar described it. He said the firm, while applying the principles of consecration and stewardship, was the means by which the infant church tried to achieve its temporal mission. Thus the prophet used its board of managers to help the kingdom before the quorums of high level leadership were developed to assist him in the work. So one thing we need to put in perspective here is that the United Firm is everlasting and that the principles continue. But it was sort of a forerunner or an early structural arrangement. And then in just about a year, we're going to get the quorums that now govern the church. In 1835, we get the 12, the 70, and the officers that are going to take over these same duties. So think of it as kind of a proto church government that is helping us until we're ready to establish the church government we're used to now. But the church government that we're used to now uses the same financial principles, in essence, to govern and regulate the financial affairs of the church.
- [36:19]
A
Yeah, I think that's a really important point, that up to this point, there was no quorum of the 12, quorum of the 70. There is a presiding bishopric. There is now a first presidency. But the work of governing the finances of the Church today are done by those quorums. Right? Right. Whereas at this time, those were not all in place yet. And so United Firm was one iteration of how that could be done. But when we get additional quorums, we're now going to have others brought into the management of church resources in the ways that are now more familiar to us today. Okay, so now the next verses are kind of the official, like, dissolving of the firm. So verse 47, for instance, the Lord says, now, a commandment I give unto you concerning Zion, that you in Kirtland shall no longer be bound as a united order to your brethren of Zion. Only on this wise. He says, let me clarify. He says, after you're organized, you shall be called the United Order of the Stake of Zion, the City of Kirtland. You have your own united order. And your brethren in Missouri, after they are organized, shall be called the United Order, Order of the City of Zion. And they shall be organized in their own names and in their own name. And they shall do their business in their own name and in their own names. And you guys will do business over here in Kirtland in your own name and in your own names. And so the separation is final. Verse 53. Therefore you are dissolved as a united order with your brethren, meaning those over in Missouri. So we're just kind of watching this in real time, like, shift and be rearranged here. But then he goes on to reiterate important principle verse 56, that if the properties are all mine in the church, then you are stewards. Otherwise you are not stewards. So just remember that all of this is mine. And then he gets really practical and starts talking about the purpose for raising money. One of the purposes that was on the Lord's mind at this time was verse 58, to print my words, the fullness of my Scriptures, the revelations which I have given unto you, and which I shall hereafter give from time to time unto you. And then also for the purpose, verse 59, of building my church and kingdom on the earth, to prepare my people for the time when I shall dwell with them which is nigh at hand. So printing the Scriptures and building the kingdom of God on earth, it's interesting how he separates those two. But the Scriptures. It's because. Not because the Scriptures aren't relevant to building the kingdom of God on earth, but because they were saying such a high priority at this time, in fact. Casey, what do you think the fullness of my Scriptures is? What does he mean by that in verse 58?
- [38:59]
B
I'm guessing the fullness of my Scriptures refers to Joseph Smith's project to translate the Bible, which he finishes around this time. In fact, in 1835, Joseph Smith writes a letter to the saints where he says this. We are now commencing to prepare and print the new translation together with all of the revelations which God has been pleased to give us in these last days. And as we are in want of funds to go on in so great and glorious a work, brethren, we want you should donate and loan us all the means or money that we can be that we may be enabled to accomplish the work as a great means towards the salvation of men.
- [39:40]
A
That's such a sad quote to me, Casey, because you see that the prophet wanted to publish the Joseph Smith translation. But what happened? How come we didn't? How come he didn't publish it at that time?
- [39:50]
B
Unfortunately, persecution, lack of financial support from the saints make it so that Joseph Smith isn't able to publish the new translation during his lifetime. And we've done a whole series on this, but it becomes a huge boondoggle between us and the RLDS Church, which later becomes Community of Christ and a bunch of other restoration movements which just aren't quite sure what to do with the new translation. The RLDS embrace it fully now they've moved away from it. I think it's fair to say we've embraced it. But there's still a little weirdness surrounding the prophet's translation. And it feels like if it had just come out and been published in Joseph Smith's lifetime and he had been able to clearly define what it was meant to do, there wouldn't be as much hesitation surrounding it. But he is highlighting an idea Here he uses the word sacred treasury. He uses the word sacred treasury to highlight the commission given to the saints that they're supposed to get scripture, scripture out to the world. And this is one of those financial principles that I'm talking about, is that a large part of the resources of the church are intended to be devoted to ensuring that, like it says here, the fullness of my scriptures. And then he says, the revelations which I've given unto you and which I shall hereafter from time to time give unto you, become widely available. So in the early restoration, following that principle means setting up a printing press, an establishment, printing physical books. In our time, a lot of church resources are used to share the word of God in a lot of different settings and mediums. That includes films, online resources, social media, person to person missionary work. You could even argue that the schools that the church owns and operates are a big part of this. Perpetuating the word of God, helping people know the principles that make them happy in this life and give them eternal life in the next life. In a lot of ways, this is a refocusing, right, where he's saying, hey, eyes on the prize, guys. Really the reason why we're doing all this is we've got to get the word out to people. We've got to help people make covenants so that they can be happy and then be prepared for the next life. So that's one way to look at this reorganization too.
- [42:06]
A
Yeah, it's incredible to me to see how crucial literacy and education are to the Lord and how integral those are. Are those go hand in glove with him. Literacy, education, so get my word out into the hands of people. And as you said, education, like today, the church schools, I mean, this goes all the way Back to section 88 in the school of the Prophets that's in formation. Like, we got to help people understand the Word, but in order to do that, we've got to be able to print the Word and get it into their hands. That's going to take finances, so there's a couple, you know, pieces that need to drop. But print the Word, help people understand the Word and then with the understanding of the Word, inspire them to then live it and spread it in a way that's going to help prepare the world for the second coming of Jesus. Like literacy, education, printing of these books, getting in the hands of everybody. Like, it all goes hand in hand to the big picture. Right. Like you said, eyes on the. The prize is the second coming of Jesus Christ and being ready for that. And that Goes all the way back to super practical things like printing books. Books. It's all connected.
- [43:07]
B
Books, newspapers, schools, missionaries. One of the most effective ways to teach people the gospel is make a movie. You know, you and I have talked at length about how most of what we know about Zion's Camp comes from a movie, which maybe speaks poorly of us.
- [43:23]
A
It was an impressionable stamp upon our young minds, wouldn't you say, Casey? Our young seminary minds, and thanks to the Joseph Smith papers, have learned a ton. More like Matt Godfrey, which, again, we'll plug his episode that we just recorded with him. He was one of the editors for the Volume 4 documents which cover the Zion's Camp. And there's just so much to. So much to learn there. But yes, media is. It's easier to watch a movie than it is to read a book, and so it can start there.
- [43:55]
B
And making that film introduced you and I to these great stories from church history which leads us to pick up the Scripture. So sometimes people say stuff like, why is the church building a film set in Goshen, Utah? They build the film set to film the Scriptures. Essentially interacting with the Word of God in the 21st century is often different than just picking up a book and flipping pages, though that is still a key way we interact with the Word of God. It can be watching a movie or listening to a sermon, watching something on the Internet that helps draw you closer, helps you understand that. But again, this idea that. Hey, focus here. The primary mission of the church is to safeguard the Word of God and to promote the Word of God leads into another principle. Take a look in verse 60, where now he's going to emphasize this is sacred stuff. So it's not just money money. It needs to be treated with absolute care. Ye shall prepare for yourselves a place for a treasury and consecrate a word that means make sacred for my name. And appoint one among you to keep the treasury. And he shall be ordained unto this blessing. There shall be a seal upon the treasury and all the sacred things be delivered into the treasury. And no man among you shall call it his own or any part of it, for it shall belong to you all with one accord record. And I give it unto you from this very hour. And now see to it that you go to and make use of the stewardship which I have appointed unto you exclusive of the sacred things for the purpose of printing of these sacred things. As I have said. Notice how many times he's using the word sacred things, culminating in verse 66 where he says, this shall be called the sacred treasury of the Lord, and a seal shall be kept upon it that it may be holy. Holy and consecrated unto God. So he's imbuing this idea with purpose. And I'll say one thing that I appreciate about the church for as much as we talk about church finances, and as controversial as church finances have been in the last few years, anybody that has worked in church finance, and my experience has only been as a local leader, but I was so deeply impressed at how cautious the leaders of the church were with the sacred funds that they'd been given. Like, there just wasn't a lot of. Of flippant spending. And there were a lot of times when we were saying, well, we want to do this, and they were saying, is there a better way we could use these funds? Is there a way that would bless them a little bit more? And again, I sometimes have people say, well, the church has $100 billion in reserve. Why don't you guys go to Hawaii for your youth conferences? When I was in the leadership, we did do a sort of Hail Mary. We went to Nauvoo. We had to get special permission. We basically had the kids have a huge yard sale and raise the money. And then we asked each of them to contribute a little. And it was so much more impactful on these youth than if I just said, hey, everybody gets $500 and we're going to fly to Nauvoo and stay in a super nice hotel. Instead, we drove to Nauvoo and Ren advanced and camped out every single night. And I think it was more meaningful because of that, because we were very cautious with the money that we'd been given, to use it in the right ways and to not overdo it, I guess you'd say.
- [47:19]
A
Now it can be confusing. Verse 66 and 67 are talking about two treasuries. There's the sacred treasury, verse 66, and then there's another treasury, verse 67, that should be prepared. And the sacred treasury is the treasury that is exclusive of, as he said back in verse 63, exclusive for the purpose of printing scripture and the sacred things, as I have said. And then there's this other treasury that's like for everything else, which is also sacred. It's helping build up the kingdom on earth. But there's like a special, special. It's like the. The most sacred treasury is for the printing of the word of God, which I don't know how it's structured today. I don't know if there's like a sacred treasury and then like another treasury or not like this, I don't. Again, the form doesn't matter. Right. It's the principles that matter. However, the Church has adapted since this time. I'm not in the inner workings of the particular layout in terms of which bank accounts they have for which purposes, but the principle is that paramount in all the things the Church needs to do. Yes, we need to build buildings. Yes, we need to like pay electricity and all this stuff. But paramount is getting the Word of God, God printed and made accessible. Like you said, today we can, we have other media we can use, visualized in different ways. But get the Word of God into the minds of the people, that's paramount because that is what's going to drive conversion most. That's what's going to help prepare people for the second coming of Jesus the most. It's going to help motivate people to go to the temple to motivate people to want to make and keep covenants. Like get the Word of God out there. I just feel like section 104 almost screams it. Like the Word of God needs to be in the hearts and minds of everybody. And that can happen if it's not first in their hands. So let's, let's get this out there. So it's an interesting ordering, right? It's the sacred treasury and then the other treasury for everything else that's also important. There's a lesson in that, I think.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah. And the other treasury has some interesting ideas here too. For instance, take a look at verse 67. There shall be another treasury prepared, a treasurer appointed to keep the treasury, and a seal shall be placed upon it. And all monies that you receive in your stewardships by improving upon the properties which I have appointed unto you in houses or in lands, or in cattle, or in all things save it be the holy and sacred writings which I have reserved unto myself for the holy and sacred purposes shall be cast into the treasury as fast as you receive monies by hundreds, by fifties, or by twenties or tens or by fives. We need to emphasize this is before tithing is revealed on section 119. But it does seem to introduce this idea that, that the Church can be involved in secular ventures to raise money to collect resources in order to further its work as well. Now, it seems to be setting up categories here. Like there's a sacred treasury and we use that to get the Word of God to people. There's this other treasury where I want you to manage your stewardships wisely, use them carefully. And if you are able to profit off that, use that to try and bless. Help the church. And this is where a lot of the controversy over church finances come from, is that the church here is essentially being told you can use secular means to grow the church as well. Where most churches kind of tend to stick to the strict donation plate model, our church, which is unique in a lot of ways, first of all, we don't really have a professional clergy, though we do have full time people that work for the church and general authorities that devote all their time. But they come from a number of backgrounds. And the fact that they come from a number of backgrounds means that sometimes they are businessmen and they're comfortable using the secular investments of the church in order to help us get more resources to go out and bless people.
- [50:57]
A
I think it goes without saying, Casey, we know where we're at today. They have worked. They have worked. They've worked very well. And the work of the church moves forward independent of any other institution on earth. We're not beholden to anybody, you know, fighting financially. We can now do our work independently. As the Lord said back in section 78, that's what he wants, that's what he's always wanted, is for us to be able to do that. And you and I happen to live in a time where we are now independent and we can pull this mission off. And it's because of the consecration of individuals and using the money models that the Lord is laying out here in the Doctrine and Covenants to pull that off. And so I think that's a powerful testament.
- [51:33]
B
And let me add another principle here. Verses 71 and 72. There shall not any part of it be used or taken out of the treasury only by the voice and common consent of the order. And this shall be the voice and common consent of the order. That any man among you say to the treasurer, I have need of this to help me in my stewardship. If it be $5 or $10 or 20 or 50 or 100, the Treasurer shall give unto him the sum which he requires to help him in his stewardship. So the church will assist people. But it's going to happen by common consent, which means through leaders that we all trust and sustain. And it's going to happen in a systematic and careful way. Way. The idea of common consent here was that no single member of the firm, again, we're still talking in terms of the firm here, was given power to use the profits generated from this fund. Instead, the Lord directs members of the united firm to use the Law of common consent to govern the fund and gives us strict warnings. There's a whole section here about strict warnings to the treasurers who choose to manage these funds. And this is again something that remains in the church where there's are strict controls in place to make sure that there's no graft or corruption. And there has been in the history of the church, but a remarkably small amount given how big and vast the operations of the church are. Let me just read an excerpt from the general Church handbook about finance clerks, which hey, shout out to all the finance clerks out there. Most members don't realize how much these wonderful people do do to make sure everything works. But it says this in the handbook. All clerks should have unquestionable integrity and demonstrate a willingness to follow the Lord's commandments. They should be honest and careful record keepers. They should also be capable teachers and administrators. The clerk who is assigned to finances should be qualified to handle financial matters. Calling clerks who meet these qualifications will help ensure that they have the spirit of the Lord with them as they work with church finances and records. And you and I have probably both participated in church audits. I gotta say, I'm more on the teacher than on the clerk side of things. And I did not enjoy church audits. In fact, the first couple times it felt like going to the dentist's office, to be honest with you. But over time I grew to respect those people so much because they were clearly devoted to to God and making sure that everything was accounted for and that we were being absolutely cautious in the way that we spent funds and we were using them to help people at the same time too. When I put in requests to help somebody that was struggling a couple times, they weren't church members. Sometimes they came from dubious backgrounds. But they trusted me. They said, yeah, we want to do what we can to help help with the resources that we have. Also recognizing we don't have unlimited resources, we're going to and also might not always be the best to just give out money. Let's try and figure out a way to help them be self reliant too.
- [54:38]
A
I don't know if I've ever heard anyone quote the Church handbook of instructions about ward clerks with such enthusiasm. Casey, that was really well done.
- [54:47]
B
Hey, they are doing God's work. God bless the clerks that don't always get credit. Sit in that little tiny office and stay hours after church just to make sure that everybody's taken care of. I appreciate those men.
- [55:00]
A
All right, so let's look at the last verses in this revelation that are about debt and about getting out of debt, there are people that they're still indebted to in Missouri. And given everything that's happening over there, some people are actually wondering, like, do we even need to pay our debts over there or should we just kind of not? And people understand because. Yep, yep, Exactly. And verse 78, the Lord is very clear. Again, verily I say unto you concerning your debts, behold, it's my will that you shall pay all your debts. I love the mindset that he follows with. He says, it's my will that you should humble yourselves before me and obtain this blessing by your diligence and humility and the prayer of faith. Great formula there for someone who wants to get out of debt, it's going to take a lot of hard work, diligence and humility and prayer of faith. And as much as you are diligent and humble and exercise the prayer of faith, behold, I will soften the hearts of those to whom you are in debt until I shall send means unto you for your deliverance. This is highly contextual to them at this time. But the principles I think are powerful and applicable broadly verse 82. And inasmuch as you are humble and faithful and call upon my name, behold, I will give you the victory. Great way to talk about getting out of debt. I will give you the victory. Now, when it comes to debt, Casey, we know that the church has. Has had its ups and its downs. And we've learned from some of the downs and hopefully from the ups as well. And I remember as a youth, I remember President Hinckley talking about the church's operations financially, currently at that time. And I think we've continued since that time where. Where he said this about debt. In the financial operations of the church, we have observed two basic and fixed principles. He calls them, number one, the church will live within its means. It will not spend more than it receives. Two, a fixed percentage of the income will be set aside to build reserves against what might be called a possible rainy day. And for years, the church has taught its members the principle of setting aside a reserve of food as well as money to take care of emergency needs that might arise. We are only trying to follow the same principle for the church as a whole. Close quote. Great insight into the current operations of the church. And we see those principles embedded right here in 1834 in section 104, which is so awesome.
- [57:24]
B
That has rung in my head for a long time. Ever since President Hinckley said that, that he's saying what the church does, but he's also saying, this is what we council members to do. And it's really simple. Just two things. Live within your means. Don't spend more than you receive, and set aside part of what you receive for a possible rainy day. Oh, my goodness. I know that it's not always possible for people to follow those two principles, but to the degree that they can, it avoids so much misery, so much strife, so much sorrow. I just can't tell you how many marriages and families I've seen that struggled and sometimes even came apart because they weren't wise in their finances. They weren't cautious and deliberate. They didn't follow these principles that are there.
- [58:09]
A
Yeah. Amen.
- [58:15]
B
A couple controversies. One, is this idea of a sacred and a secular treasury in the church still the real deal? Like, do we still separate them that way?
- [58:27]
A
Official answer from Scott Woodward is, I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how the bank accounts are all divided up, but I know we still. We still do all this stuff. We're definitely determined to print scripture and to get the word of God into everyone's hands and heart and mind. And I know we're still very much engaged in the work of building buildings and doing all this. The secular stuff and educational institutions and the welfare stuff. I know we're doing all that stuff, but I don't know about. About how the funds are divided up. Do you, Casey?
- [59:02]
B
I don't. It can be a little constricting if we do take this too strictly. Like, I used to do an exercise in my classes when I taught Section 104, where I'd say, okay, here's the sacred treasury. That's for printing the scriptures, and here's the secular treasury. That's for making the world a better place. And I put up, like, a picture of Gospel library and said, this costs a lot of money. Is this the sacred or secular? And all the kids would go, sacred. That's what it looks like to publish the scriptures. And then I put up a picture of the downtown mall, the City Creek Mall in Salt Lake, and said, sacred or secular? They were all like, secular. And President Hinckley, when they were building the mall, did say, we're not going to use tithing funds to pay for the mall. And then I put up a picture of the Polynesian Cultural center and said, sacred or secular? And everybody was like, secular. And then I said, are you sure? Part of the reason why the Polynesian Cultural center exists, this is to provide jobs, a means for students that come from all over the Pacific to pay for their schooling and provide for themselves. And one of the things that they do when they're at that school is learn the scriptures and learn how to be church leaders and everything like that. There's clearly a mix there of the sacred and the secular as well. And it seems like every other day somebody sues the church because they're mad that their tithing was used to build a mall or to pay for a housing complex or to pay for the Polynesian Cultural Center. I want to be clear, President Hinckley was telling the truth when he said we're not using any tithing funds. But what has been stated by other church leaders is maybe investments that were garnered from using those tithing funds were used to do something like build City Creek or that. So I don't know if we can put them into clear categories unless we have more information about how finance finances from the church work. But I do believe that common consent still plays a role here in that we sustain the leaders of the church and we trust them, and we also expect them to carry out their work with integrity. And whenever anybody tries to say that the church is being underhanded or corrupt, the first question I ask is, well, who's getting rich off this? And it doesn't seem like President Nelson and drives a gold limousine or anything like that. It seems like he lives a pretty humble existence. And I don't know of anybody that really gets rich off church finances. Doesn't seem like there's corruption.
- [61:31]
A
Okay, well, let me ask you a follow up controversial question, Casey. You and I both said we don't know exactly how it's all structured today, but we know what the church is doing. Some have pushed pretty hard recently in the last couple years and said we should have more transparency as those who donate to the church, like we should know where the funds are being used and what decisions were being made to use the funds that we've consecrated. What do you think about that? Should the church be more transparent about its finances? Is there any scriptural reason why the church should or shouldn't I mull this.
- [62:06]
B
One over in my head a lot? And the church did used to publish its. Its finances. I think it was until about 19, 1958 that in general Conference they would publish the operating budgets of everything in the church. The other hand would be, you know, it feels like we are pretty transparent. You know, you and I have both participated in audits on the local level, maybe on the higher level. We don't know exactly where everything's spent. But I also feel like more transparency could be the door to more problems. Like we already sometimes get accused of being a rich church or hoarding money or anything like that. And I don't know, beyond trusting the leaders of the church, if I want to know more, I don't know, I'm not as much a money guy as you are. You are an astute businessman and you know what you're doing when it comes to that. What are your thoughts?
- [63:02]
A
Well, I mean, on the one hand, I'm a red blooded American, right? That would, you know, if I feel like we, we want transparency, we want accountability from our leaders, you know, just as a citizen of this great country and the principles upon which it's founded, like we. So I feel that impulse, you know, in me it's like, yeah, transparency would lead to greater accountability. But on the other hand, I feel like that could also foster maybe unnecessary pressure on church leaders. Too many chefs in the kitchen trying to tell the church leaders what to do with the money. Because I mean, once you've, once you've donated that money, like it's not yours. So at that point you don't have a say as to how it's going to be used. On the one hand, I'm sympathetic to that side. Mostly though, I don't think people that are consistently and regularly consecrating their money to the church are of the disposition to be the kind that really want to put the screws into the leaders of the church. You know, if you're consecrating to this church, it's typically because your heart resonates, resonates with the purpose and the mission of the church and that you sustain the leaders of the church, especially those at the highest, as prophets, seers and revelators. I wonder if a lot of the noise comes from outside or would come from outside of the church if the church was more transparent about its spending. I'm okay with whatever the church leaders decide to do on that.
- [64:19]
B
It does seem like money is a particularly effective way to attack the church. I mean, this revelation originally came with codenames, names, right? Because they were so worried about people taking advantage of the information that's here. And it wasn't until 150 years later that we were able to actually print the names. So there is something to be said about being a little discreet when it comes to your financial matters. What we're not discreet about is the fact that every person in the church that goes to the temple makes covenants of consecration and is asked a Very direct question, which is, are you honest in your dealings with other people before they go there? And I know that people can lie in temple recommend interviews, but at the same time, too, I am grateful that that question gets asked to every temple recommend holder in the church, which basically means almost every leader in the church, every finance clerk, every ecclesiastical leader, every general authority or general officer is asked, are you honest in your dealings with other people? That's something that we should ask more of. Not just leaders in the church, but leaders in the public sphere, where it seems like we've gotten so used to dishonesty that honesty is like receiving a drink of water in the middle of the desert. And maybe if we emphasized honesty a little bit more, we'd have a little less trouble with the challenges that we have. I don't know. There's part of me that thinks if we were more transparent with our finances, we're just painting a big target on our back and endangering the lives of missionaries, which is another argument that I've heard. At the same time, I appreciate the church's emphasis on honesty, and I can assure our listeners out there that there's a lot of mechanisms in place to make sure that there is honesty in church finances and that they're being used very carefully and in accordance with the principles that are taught in section 104.
- [66:16]
A
The glimpses I've had Casey convince me that we're using these funds the way that the Lord intends them to be used to build the Kingdom of God on earth in preparation for the Second Coming. Nobody's getting rich off this. There's not hoarding that's happening. We're not neglecting what the Lord has asked us to do. Starting from section 42 all the way up till now, what are we section 104, like these principles, the financial principles have been woven throughout there. Like I said, think from everything I can see, all the vantage points I've been able to have in the church in my experience here, is that they're doing it like church leaders are actually serious about executing the mission. And as you pointed out, there are a lot of checks and balances in place to make sure that if there are any bad actors, they are caught and are taken out. And there are checks and balances in place to make sure that there's no financial shenanigans. Any other honest observer who looks around at the church and is familiar with what's happening with how the church is using its funds would have to say we're doing a pretty darn Good job.
- [67:14]
B
I remember this historian named D. Michael Quinn, who was excommunicated from the Church. And I met him a couple times. He was a nice fellow. But his last book was a book on church finance. And he went to some countries where the church does have to disclose its finances and found out that things like 95% of the operating budget in some of these countries comes from other countries like the United States. And even this guy who had every reason to be bitter with the church. I went to a book reading where he read excerpts from the book and then answered questions about it. And this excommunicated member was saying, the one thing I can't accuse the Church of is corruption. I was so impressed with the integrity shown at all levels. And that's an undervalued, renewed virtue nowadays is integrity. So grateful for it. What are the consequences of section 104?
- [68:12]
A
A couple practical consequences. So, as we mentioned, this effectively restructured the United Firm. It split the Missouri Kirtland connected firm into two. So now we've got a Missouri firm and a Kirtland firm. It also laid out some clear principles about abundantly sharing what we have. Why? Because everything belongs to the Lord. And we are made stewards over what we have. And he's asking us to give, although he's not going to force it. He's made us agents unto ourselves. So a couple really cool applications, right, that very much applied in section 104's time period, but are just universal for all of us today. To think about our stuff and the degree to which we want to share it, to do God's work. It's compelling. That's a reverberation of section 104 that we all can think about and not to think about. Principles about stewardship in the practical time period of dividing that up amongst those of the United Firm in Kirtland. And then it ends with those great principles about getting out of debt that the Lord is big about getting out of debt. He even calls getting out of debt a victory. Victory. And so lots to reflect on financially. It's historically interesting. Section 104 is. And it's also personally interesting as a disciple who's been trusted with time and talents and money as to what we're going to do with those things.
- [69:34]
B
You've got to glean the principles here. And you can see the principles in section 104 and section 42 and all the revelations on finance still live in the Church today. And in that sense, I think that really it has become everlasting and that we'll always follow these principles. We're on to section 105, where we're returning to the story of Zion's camp. This revelation is received after Zion's camp has made this incredible journey 800 miles across the central United States from Ohio to Missouri. They make it to the Fishing river, and then section 105 is received.
- [70:08]
A
So set the stage for us, Casey. So what was going on in the immediate, like, moments where this was received? So they're at Fishing river, which is not. Not too far away from the Missouri river, which is the boundary to Jackson county, right? Yeah, they're almost to Jackson County.
- [70:23]
B
Essentially, they're right on the border of Jackson county and Clay County. Clay county is where the Saints have gone as refugees fleeing from Jackson County. But the whole idea was to accompany the governor's military escort of the Saints back into Jackson county and then, once the state militia withdrew, act as a peacekeeping sort of defensive presence presence to discourage any future attacks on the Saints by the Jackson county locals. Now, that was the plan. Unfortunately, things don't go according to the plan. So this group of 200 saints marches all the way from Ohio to Missouri during May and June of 1834. But once they arrive, they find out that Governor Dunklin had gone back on his willingness to call out the state militia to bring the Saints back to their homes in Jackson County. He became fearful that this might ignite a civil war. And this is a story that repeats itself again and again in Illinois and other places where a governor offers to bring in militia to help, but then gets worried that the violence will increase and goes back on it. And the Saints are kind of left in the lurch. So when they get there, one local resident informed camp leaders that this is the wording in the history of the church that should they cross the Missouri river, which would bring them into Jackson county, he continued, there will be a battle and probably much blood shed. So amidst these tensions, Joseph Smith and other church leaders issue a declaration. And this is what they say. It is not our intentions to commence hostilities against any man or body of men. It is not our intention to injure any man's person or property, except in defending ourselves. And then they add, we are anxious for a settlement of the difficulties existing between us upon honorable and constitutional principles. Then, on June 22, which is the day after the declaration is issued, Joseph Smith calls together a council in the camp of Fishing River, Missouri, to determine what next steps they should take. Without the backing of the governor, their options are limited. Some of the Matter wanted to fight. Others were hesitant to go forward without the local militia backing them. And during this council, Joseph Smith sought and received this revelation, which provides guidance to the men and women of Zion's camp. So that's the setup. Basically. They're there, the situation isn't quite what they thought it was going to be, and they're trying to figure out the next thing to do. So they seek revelation to know the path forward.
- [72:51]
A
Governor Duncan has backed out. Come on, they just marched 800 plus miles. And now the governor's like, yeah, about that. And I'm not gonna escort you back in. So that. That would have been a huge blow to the morale. What should we do? What should we do? So, okay, well done. The stage is set. Let's see what the Lord has to say. Here's what the lord says. Verse 1. Verily I say unto you, who have assembled yourselves together that you may learn my will concerning the redemption of mine afflicted people. People. I like that reference to those who'd been scattered from Jackson county calls a mine afflicted people. You want to know how to redeem them? Well, verse two. Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church collectively here, not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now. Whoa. Now, Verse three, he starts to list the lingering issues among the saints that kept them from temporally redeeming those scattered saints. Remember that redemption in this case doesn't mean ultimate salvation. Redemption, the way he's using it, means getting them back into their lands. Right? And so here's what's been keeping them back, he says. Verse 3 and 4. Behold, they have number one not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands. But number two are full of all manner of evil, and number three do not impart of their substance as becometh saints to the poor and afflicted among them. And four, they are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom. Kingdom and a really important principle here. And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom. Otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself. So what's interesting to me is like how matter of fact this list is that the Lord's laying out here like it's more descriptive than it is, like, condemnatory. This isn't a condemnation of all the saints in the church, especially the men and women who just sacrificed to travel with Zion's camp over 800 miles. Miles. But the Lord is clear that many church members like collectively here, are falling short of celestial law. Therefore they were not ready to redeem Zion and build it up. Stated another way, I'd say it like this. The church was seeking a collective blessing to get their scattered brothers and sisters back into Jackson county so they could continue the Zion building project, right? The Lord is saying here that collective blessings require the collective living of celestial laws. So the collective obedience he's highlighted here of obedience, purity, charity and union required to merit that blessing that they sought had not yet been achieved. That's it, right? Like Zion must be built up on celestial laws and principles. Like water boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit, 100 degrees Celsius. Casey. Right. Not 200 degrees Fahrenheit, not 211 degrees. Like the threshold is 212 degrees, period. Like it seems like that's what the Lord's saying here. Like to get the collective blessing of the redemption of Zion. There is a threshold that the saints had not yet collectively met and therefore they could not get the blessing.
- [75:55]
B
There's metrics, right, that kind of demonstrate they, they weren't showing the kind of faithfulness like the Lord asked them all the branches of the church in the east to donate money to help purchase land in Jackson County. That was one way that they sought to possibly resolve the conflict peacefully as let's just purchase the land. Very few people donate. We only have record of about $300 total being raised. In addition, the Lord had asked for about 500 able bodied men to assist in Zion's camp. There were a lot of able bodied men in the church, probably enough to make this happen. But when Joseph Smith set out for Mahau, he had barely 100 men, men and finally a total of around 200. Because a group recruited by Hyrum Smith and others converged. And then the record shows that along the way there were contentions and problems among the people in Zion's camp. And when they got there, the saints in Missouri also were struggling, it seems like at the basis a lot of this is failure to live. The law of consecration at the to be committed. For instance, one of the camp's participants was Heber C. Kimball. And Heber writes an account of Zion's camp later on. And he's kind of in, you know, teaching mode when he does this. He's pausing and saying, and this is the reason why I think this happened. And he's reflecting on that. But here's an episode that he shares. He says this while we were here in Clay County, Missouri. That's what he means. The brethren being in want of some refreshment. Brother Luke Johnson. Johnson went to Brother Bridget to get a fowl and asking him for one to make broth for Elder Wilcox and others. But brother Bridget denied him it, saying, in a few days we expect to return back into Jackson county. And I shall want them when I get there. When Brother Johnson returned, he was so angry at Burget for refusing him. He said, I have a great mind to take my rifle and go back and shoot his horse. I told Luke, never mind that. Such actions never fail to bring their word. Judge how we fail felt having left the society of our beloved families, taking our lives in our hands and traveling about 1,000 miles through scenes of suffering and sorrow for the benefit of our brethren. And after all to be denied of a small fowl to make a little soup for brethren in the agonies of death. Such things never fail to bring their reward. And it would do well for the saints never to turn away a brother who is penniless and in want, or a stranger, lest they may one day or another want to friend themselves themselves. And so again, this is someone who participated directly in the march and says, you know, on all sides there was selfishness going. The Jackson County Saints refused to share with the men of Zion's camp. Luke Johnson threatened to shoot a guy's horse. It seems like it was contentious and I think the Lord was clear that Zion has to be built upon principles of unselfishness, of consecration, non violence about above all, but that they weren't quite ready yet. Though this whole thing was probably part of the preparation of getting them and us ready for building Zion one day.
- [78:55]
A
So let's continue. The Lord's not fully done with this thought. Let's pick it up. Back in verse six he said, and my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience. That was the first thing he said. They're lacking back in verse three. If it must needs be by the things which they suffer. I speak not concerning those who are appointed to lead my people, who are the first elders of my church. For they are not all under this condemnation. But I speak concerning my churches abroad. I think he's talking about those in the East. There are many who will say, where's their God? Behold, he will deliver them in time of trouble. Otherwise we will not go up unto Zion and we'll keep our monies. Therefore the Lord says, in consequence of the transgressions of my people, those people in the east, those who are not willing to. To pony up and consecrate to help the saints. He says, it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion, that they themselves may be prepared, and that my people may be taught more perfectly and have experience and know more perfectly concerning their duty and the things which I require at their hands. Again, the Lord's not condemning. He's just saying, we are not the there. Like, here's where we're at. Let's take a temperature. We're not there. So what do we need to do? We need to be more prepared. We need to help people be taught more perfectly, have experience, understand their duty better. And then he drops in verse 11, if you want to pick it up there, Casey.
- [80:21]
B
Yeah. What's the next thing they should do to redeem Zion, which he's hinting at is less about land and more about people. So in verse 11, he says, this cannot be brought to pass until mine elders are endowed with power from on high. For behold, I have prepared a great endowment and blessing to be poured out upon them, inasmuch as they are faithful and continue in humility before me. Therefore, it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion. Words that have huge meaning for Latter Day Saints today, like endowment, we have to put ourselves in their perspective and know that the word endowment pops up all over the Doctrine and Covenants as early as Section 38, I believe. It's not triggering the same kind of thoughts in their mind. They don't know what the endowment is yet. Endowment just means a gift. But the Lord is saying, I'm going to give you an endowment, and after a little season, the redemption of Zion will come. And it is possible that that little season may have been only two years or in time. The Kirtland Temple was dedicated, which happens in March 1860. 36. The endowment of power that's referred to in verse 11 in the earliest usage of, it referred to the washings and anointings that were given to the elders of the church when the Kirtland Temple was dedicated. Now, later on, the endowment that we're more familiar with, but it's still a little different, is given in Nauvoo to Joseph Smith before the Nauvoo Temple was built. This is given to all men and all women who were worthy to receive it and kind of spread throughout the larger membership of the church. In addition, some people refer to the kind of huge outpouring of spiritual Manifestations that happen. The Kirtland Temple is dedicated as the endowment as well. Now, if the Saints had managed to build on the blessings that were given during the dedication of the Kirtland Temple and its accompanying endowment of power, whether that's the ceremony or the. The spiritual uplift that they gained, it's possible that they could have redeemed Zion during that time. This is all again Monday morning quarterbacking on our part. However, unfortunately, soon after the Kirtland Temple is dedicated, Kirtland starts to really, really struggle. The members there fall into apostasy. Many people would categorize the Kirtland apostasy as the worst apostasy in the history of the church. If we're just looking at, at numerically, how many people percentage wise, left the church.
- [82:46]
A
To be clear, the modern church, there was a little bigger one prior to this, but.
- [82:50]
B
Yeah, but I mean, that essentially undoes Kirtland as a place of safety. And so there's tantalizing possibilities laid out here. It seems that he's saying to them, hey, let's move on. Okay, let's pause here for a minute and go back and finish the work that's supposed to be done in the temple temple, and then we'll continue with the redemption of Zion, which again, right before you and I hit record, we started to have a discussion on, well, what does it mean to redeem Zion? It seems like he hasn't mentioned the land very much, though he is going to mention it in the Revelation. It seems like he's talking about the people at this point.
- [83:27]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's all tangled up together, isn't it, to get these people back to their land so they can build Zion. We know how the story he's going to go. We know that the land is not going to be the key piece. We'll find out later. We can do this project in Nauvoo. We can do it in Salt Lake, we can do it in Singapore. We can do this, the Zion Project, anywhere. But at this time, I think everyone would agree that redeeming Zion meant to get them back into lands to continue the project. Right? Whether the Lord had other thoughts, it's always hard to say. I like the connections that the Lord is weaving together here. It's all one thought that you couldn't redeem Zion because water boils at 212 degrees. You have not yet met the collective threshold to receive the blessing of Zion. So let's pause this project and let's focus on the endowment of power back in Kirtland. That I promised way back in section 38 of the doctrine and Covenants, that if you go to Kirtland, if you go to Ohio, I will give you my law and I will endow you with power. Those are connected together. Learn how to live my laws in preparation for the endowment. And the endowment is going to give you great incentives to continue to live my laws. As you continue to live my laws. You're going to become the kind of people that verse 3 and 4 of this section were saying. They're not there yet. Right. You're going to become the kind of people that learn to be obedient. You're going to get rid of the evil things in your heart. You're going to learn how to impart of your substance, and you're going to learn more of the unity that's required in the celestial kingdom. And so the endowment will help prepare a people to be Zion so that they can build the place of Zion? Something like that, yeah.
- [84:58]
B
It seems like the endowment is a critical part of the establishment of Zion. But again, they're still working out what the term endowment means. When I think about the endowment as we experience it today. And I think, well, how does it help establish Zion, man? You commit to live the law of consecration when you enter into the endowment. And it seems like from the introductory verses in section 105, that that's a major thing they were struggling with, and that we still struggle with today is this idea of consecrated living, imparting of our substance, helping and being committed to lifting the poor.
- [85:33]
A
Because it's hard.
- [85:35]
B
Yeah, it's really hard.
- [85:37]
A
Okay, well, let's. Let's continue now. Verse 14, the Lord says, switching gears a little now. For behold, I do not require at their hand hands to fight the battles of Zion there, meaning Zion's camp. For as I said in a former commandment, even so will I fulfill. I will fight your battles. This was actually kind of controversial, that the Lord would fight their battles and they weren't going to be required to fight. Like a guy named William Cahoon, who was there, he recalled this. He said, many in the camp murmured because we were not permitted at this time to restore our brothers and sisters to their home and defend them there at all hazards. George A. Smith, a future apostle, remarked that, quote, several of the brethren apostatized because they were not going to have the privilege of fighting. He called it another guy named Nathan Tanner, he's a camp member. He recalled that some declared, quote, they had rather die than to return home to Ohio without A fight. And then they gave vent to their wrath on a patch of paw paw brush start shooting up a bush and they mowed it down like grass, he said. But to Nathan, he said this revelation, Section 105 was the most acceptable to him of anything he had ever heard before. The gospel being the exception. That's fun, insightful, but you see the temperature in the camp, like, people are so disappointed, some of them, at not having the privilege of fighting. And others are relieved that section 105 says they don't need to do that.
- [87:02]
B
Yeah, we should emphasize this is some of the camp, but not all. It seems like most of the camp was relieved with the idea that they weren't going to fight. And again, the next verse emphasizes that there is going to be punishment for what happened to the saints in Jackson County. But the people that are mad, they don't get to fight. Either just wanted to fight or b didn't have faith that the Lord would, you know, level the playing field to mete out justice. But the language in the next few verse, verse 15, the destroyer have I sent forth to destroy and lay waste mine enemies, and not many years hence they shall not be left to pollute mine heritage and to blaspheme my name upon the land which I have consecrated for the gathering together of my saints. Now, we don't want to get too into the weeds on this promise, too, but at least partial fulfillment of this came in the fact that some of the most savage and cruel acts carried out during the United States Civil War and the period leading up to it do take place in this area that the Lord is talking about. Guerrilla warfare was kind of employed on both sides.
- [88:07]
A
I think that's interesting, Casey, because the language here, the Lord says, is not many years. Like, he kind of puts a time on it, right? That this isn't just in the eternities. Your enemies are going to be accountable for what they've done to you. No, he says, quote, not many years hence, they shall not be left to pollute my heritage. You're suggesting that in the Civil War there's a partial fulfillment of this. Tell us more about that story, not.
- [88:32]
B
Just the Civil War, but the period leading up to it. And can I put on my American history hat for a minute? So prior to the Civil War, remember, Missouri is a slave state and it borders Kansas, which what led to the Civil War in the United States partially was every time a state joined the Union, they had to decide if the state was going to be a slave state or a free state. And both Sides were heavily invested in this because if there's more free states than slave states, they can eliminate slavery. And they were invested in allowing slavery to continue. So in this area, in particular, in and around independence, there were pro slavery, they were called Bushwhackers and pro union Jayhawkers who kind of fought, for instance, Missouri stays in the Union during the Civil War. It's one of the slave states that stays, doesn't join the Confederacy. But that doesn't mean that everything is harmonious, especially in this really rough neighborhood that the Saints were asked to build Zion in. I think we've stated several times the Lord asked them to build Zion in a particularly hard place to do so. So just to cite One example, August 21, 1863, in an act that is considered one of the most bloody acts of the Civil War, a large group of Bushwhackers, that's the pro slavery group led by William Quantrill, attacked the city of Lawrence, Kansas, which is not far from Independence, and they kill 150 men and boys and they burn homes. This becomes known as the Lawrence Massacre. And the Union army intervenes because the Bushwhackers, they felt, were being supported by these four Missouri counties on the Kansas border, namely Bates, Cass, Jackson and Vernon counties. Federal forces. The Union army, basically concerned with ending this bloodshed, issued order number 11 on 25 August 1863, which called for the evacuation of these four Missouri counties. That was intended to stop all civilian support of the Bushwhackers on the Kansas border. And though the intent of order number 11 was not to harm the citize citizens of these counties, but to eliminate support for the Bushwhackers, the Kansas Jayhawkers who assisted in implementing the order took advantage of this opportunity to sort of take out their anger on the Missourians. There was pillaging, there was plunder, there was harassment, there was murder. It might be that in this context, the above prophecy was fulfilled. Remember, the prophecy said the destroyer would be sent forth to lay waste to the enemy of the church and was partially fulfilled in the Civil War. In fact, one unique thing, Scott, you and I have been to Independence together a couple times, and we've noted that there are these bicentennial markers on the temple lot. One notes that this is the place where the early Saints wanted to build the temple. The one right across the street notes that the bloodiest battle of the Civil War that took place in Missouri took place on the temple lot as well, on the actual temple lot itself.
- [91:33]
A
I want to quote somebody who an eyewitness to this, this is a guy named George D. Miller. He was a reverend in the area and an eyewitness. He describes the decimation of Jackson county like this. He said the Lawrence raid was followed by swift and cruel retribution. The Kansas troops visited dire vengeance on all western Missouri. Unarmed old men and boys were accused and shot down. And homes with their now meager comforts were burned. And helpless women and children turned out with no provision for the approaching winter. Does that sound familiar by the way homes burned, people driven out women and children during the wintertime with no place to live? He says the number of those killed was never reported as they were scattered all over western Missouri. He says order number 11 virtually depopulated the eastern and southern half of Jackson county county and all of Cass and Bates counties. The enforcement of such an order under the military lash right at the beginning of winter inflicted untold suffering on thousands of helpless women and children already bearing crushing burdens. The edict was issued and left a once beautiful country a scene of utter desolation. With only here and there a lonely chimney standing to remind one that it had ever been inhabited. He said men were constantly being taken out of prison. Prison in the dead hours of the night and never heard of again. He said many of them were put out of the way so secretly that their relatives never knew how or where, but only that they never came home again. Human bones and unknowable graves were found in out of the way places for two or three years after the war closed. Sometimes a bleached skeleton dangled from a tree in some dark timbered dell. God only knowing the doers of the the deed. He said close quotes like oh my word. Historically, I don't know of any other possible fulfillment of this verse. That in not many years hence these people will not be left to pollute mine heritage and blaspheme my name. Verse 15. So chilling history.
- [93:39]
B
Yeah. BH Roberts quoted another local just to give a second witness to what you just shared. This was a guy named W.M. leftwich who said what happened there was a horror unsurpassed by anything in the annals of civilized warfare. And then wrote between the Jayhawkers of Kansas and the Bushwhackers of Missouri, some whole counties were plundered, some were desolated by fire and sword, and some were almost depopulated. Again, same word that that other source used. And it's hard to see any fulfillment of this prophecy other than this. That again the people in these areas were. Were spoiling for a fight and Boy, they got one. But not from Zion's camp. The wicked punish the wicked in this particular case.
- [94:21]
A
Okay, so now let's head over to verse 16. The Lord says, behold, I have commanded my servant, Joseph Smith Jr. To say unto the strength of my house, even my warriors, my young men and middle aged, to gather together for the redemption of my people. This is back in section 103. And to throw down the towers of mine enemies and scatter their watchmen back to that parable of section 101. But he says, the strength of mine house have not hearkened unto my words. Isn't that interesting? Because this. This is received in the midst of Zion's camp, where about 200 of the strength of his house had hearkened to his words. But as you mentioned, the Lord had called for 500. Maybe he's referring to that. I don't know. He acknowledges the 218 where he says, says, but inasmuch as there are those who've hearkened unto my words, you hear? He says, I have prepared a blessing and an endowment for them if they continue faithful. I have heard their prayers and will accept their offering. And it is expedient in me that they should be brought thus far for a trial of their faith. Whoa. Okay, so, Casey. So sounds like he's saying, I wanted 500. I got 200. Bless you, marvelous 200 people. I will bless you according to your prayers, according to your faithfulness. I have prepared an endowment for you, and I brought you here for a trial of your faith. But had we had 500, we would have done something more. I mean, do you feel like that's what he's saying?
- [95:50]
B
I think this is one of those speaking into the Church collectively and not individually. I'm grateful for those of you that have made the sacrifice, but on the whole, this is a test that. That the church has really failed to meet the provisions laid for him. And so in verses 2026, he's going to change the conditions of the gathering a little bit. He says, and now, verily I say unto you a commandment I give unto you, that as many as have come up hither that can stay in the region about, let them stay. But those that cannot stay, who have families in the east, let them tarry for a little season. Inasmuch as my servant Joseph shall appoint unto them, I will counsel him concerning this matter, and all things, whatsoever he shall appoint among them shall be fulfilled. He's telling them, verse 23, to be faithful and prayerful and humble. Talk not of Judgments neither boast of faith nor of mighty works, but carefully gather together as much in one region as can be consistently with the feelings of the people. And behold, I will give you favor and grace in their eyes that you may rest in peace and safety while you are saying a of the people, execute judgment and justice for us according to the law and redress of our wrongs. Now, this is, I think, a gentle way of addressing maybe how bombastic the Saints were. They gather together to Jackson county pretty rapidly and boast of what they're going to do. And that off puts the settlers. And he's basically saying here, look, if you will gather consistent with the feelings of the people, I'll soften their hearts and help them. And I mean, we've had all kinds of debates over whether or not Zion will be built in Jackson county, but I do get a chance to visit there quite often. And I just want to commend the Saints in Jackson county today that they've really grasped this idea of being consistent with the feelings of the people and gaining favor in their eyes that way. Like, I've only been going to Jackson county for the last 10 years or so, but I go enough that I do see marked changes. And there still is a little bombastic feeling, hey, this is our land. We're eventually going to get it. But the stake presidents out there, in particular, the two that I've worked closely with, I saw this shift among them where they were more like, we're going to surf and we're going to bless the people around us and we're going to open our doors and we're going to. To help others. And that does so much more than all the loudspeaking we can do about how this is our destined land or our promised place to soften people's heart and to see what the real intent of Zion is, which is to build a holy city not on a foundation of blood, but on a foundation of peace, cooperation and consecration.
- [98:31]
A
Yeah, no, that's so good. It must have been so annoying to hear Latter Day's Saints boast of judgments and. How do you say it? Of great faith and mighty works. That's one of the things that irked the local settlers, among other things. We know that from the history that they were doing that. And the Lord says, please don't. Don't do the act like Latter Day Saints, not like a bunch of entitled jerks.
- [98:57]
B
You know, I love religion like it has blessed my life and helped me so much, but sometimes religious people can be insufferable. Especially when they start to emphasize like vengeance and God's punishment. And they miss the Savior's teachings about kindness and neighborliness and all the things that he's asked us do to try to help others. I understand the reason why the prophecies about the end of the world are in there. They give us hope. At the same time too, they can be used improperly and turn people away from the faith of Jesus Christ instead of helping them see why it's such a blessing in our lives Continuing the.
- [99:34]
A
Lord gives this promise in verse 27 he says, I will soften the hearts of the people, meaning the not Latter Day Saints in the area, as I did the heart of Pharaoh from time to time until my servant Joseph Smith Jr. And mine elders whom I have appointed shall have time to gather up the strength of my house. He's still talking about this gathering, the strength of his house. Why? For war no watch what he says. He continues to go through the financial route. In the next couple verses he says, and I have sent wise men to fulfill that which I have commanded concerning the purchasing of all the lands in Jackson county that can be purchased and in the adjoining counties roundabout. For it is my will that these lands should be purchased, and after they are purchased, that my saints should possess them according to the laws of consecration which I have given. And after these lands are purchased, I will hold the armies of Israel guiltless in taking possession of their own lands which they have previously purchased with their monies, and of throwing down the towers of mine enemies so it may come to battle. Like Joseph said earlier in that letter. He said that we don't desire any conflict. We don't desire any loss of life or property, only in defense. Only in defense here. So if it comes to pass that it's time for that, then the Lord seems to be authorizing that here in verse 20:30, throwing down the towers of mine enemies that they may be upon them, and scattering their watchmen and avenging me of mine enemies unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. So pretty direct language here. We're going to purchase it all. It's going to be legally ours. And if people continue to insist to try to drive us off of it or not allow us to take that which is rightfully ours, then there might be some physical altercations that the Lord would authorize here. So we see that even after the saints were driven out of Jackson county through violent means, the Lord stands firm in his instructions that the lands of Zion should be obtained through peaceful means if possible Right legal means. He also mentions that the land would be obtained through following the laws of consecration or the principles of cooperation and sacrifice given throughout the revelations of the Doctrine and Covenants. So the Lord intended for the armies of Israel to be be guiltless in obtaining the land is another way to say it. They were not to resort to the same kind of violence that their enemies had used against them to take their lands back. All of that's in the air here.
- [101:54]
B
Redeeming Zion is something that we still need to talk about in the church, and it's grown much bigger than what was happening in 1834, which is just we want to get our lands back. I love this quote by Orson F. Whitney, and I think I've seen shared it before, but I'm going to share it again. He said, the redemption of Zion is more than the purchase or recovery of lands, the building of cities, or even the founding of nations. It is the conquest of the heart. It's the subjugation of the soul, the sanctifying of the flesh, the purifying and ennobling of the passions. In other words, we've got to grow past this idea of we want our land back, which was definitely an important question for them during this time. And modern land. Latter Day Saints have to debate the question of what does it mean to redeem Zion and what does that look like for me where I live and where I'm at and what I'm doing? This next section is important because you can see he's going back and forth between peaceful language, purchase the land, but also martial language, which again is consistent with the principles in section 98, where the Lord says, you raise an ensign of peace, you exhaust every possible opportunity. And then if you go forth, that's okay, but if you still hold back and you don't use violence, you'll get even more blessings. Where he's basically being realistic, but also idealistic and saying, there's a better way to do all this.
- [103:12]
A
And it almost seems like in verses 31 and 32, he is wanting to build up an army, not necessarily to engage in violence, but to be formidable so that nobody would want to listen to this language. He's. He says, first let my army. He calls him that. Let my army, the strength of my house, he's referred to it, become very great, and let it be sanctified before me. It's like army of righteous people, that it may become fair as the sun, clear as the moon, and that her banners may be terrible unto all nations, that the kingdoms of this world may be constrained to acknowledge that the kingdom of Zion is in very deed the kingdom of our God and his Christ. Therefore let us become subject unto her laws. Notice he doesn't say, I want this army to become great so they can just squash anybody. He says, we want it to be terrible in the eyes of all nations, that nobody would want to come against Zion and try to steal our land anymore. It's interesting that the Lord is meeting the people on their level, right? The way that the world kind of works. He's saying, like, you know, let's build up an army that's full of righteous and intimidated people. Is that a fair way to read these verses so that people won't want to engage?
- [104:24]
B
But then he goes back to how does this happen? Verse 33, it is expedient that the first elders of my church should receive their endowment from on high in my house, which I have commanded to be built unto my name in the land of Kirtland. And let those commandments which I have given concerning Zion and her law be executed and fulfilled after her redemption. So don't forget consecration. Don't forget to live the Gospel after all this happens. I mean, it's interesting because as you're reading those verses about a great army that's terrible, and not terrible as in bad, but like, scary that today the church is several million people large and our unity is intimidating to some people. In my interfaith dialogues with other faiths, sometimes they've been very honest and mentioned just. You guys seem so in lockstep with each other. That's a little. A little frightening to us. But to us, that's a strength. And it happens not because we're united in this desire to avenge. It's because of the covenants that we've made, especially the Temple covenants, that give us this common commitment and shared worldview that allows us to, I hope, affect the world in a positive way.
- [105:37]
A
That's a very good point. Now, the Lord transitions in verse 35. He says, There has been a day of calling, but the time has come for a day of choosing. And let those be chosen that are worthy. And it shall be manifest unto my servant by the voice of the Spirit. Those that are chosen, and they shall be sanctified. And inasmuch as they follow the counsel which they receive, they shall have power after many days to accomplish all things pertaining to Zion. What's the Lord talking about here? Well, we think it's about what happens the day after section 105 is received. This is when Joseph Smith to try to fulfill these verses. He actually records in his history this, he says, quote, a council of high priests assembled in fulfillment of the revelation given the day previous. So he ties it directly to section 105. He says, and the following individuals were called and chosen as they were made manifest unto me by the voice of the Spirit and Revelation to receive their endowment. And then he names him. The men chosen were Edward Partridge, William W. Phelps, Isaac Morley, John Corll, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, A. Sidney Gilbert, Peter Whitmer, Jr. Simeon Carter, Newell Knight, Parley P. Pratt, Christian Whitmer, Solomon Hancock, Thomas B. Marsh, and Lyman White. These are the ones the Lord is referring to here, who, quote in verse 37, shall have power after many days to accomplish all things pertaining to Zion. Zion. They were the ones chosen to do so. So, interesting bit of immediate fulfillment of those verses.
- [107:05]
B
And then right here at the end, this is probably my favorite part of the Revelation because you and I did a series on peace and violence in the church. And one question we were debating back and forth was, you know, was Zion's camp intended to be violent? And we were doing a conversation with Patrick Mason. Mason, who's this great advocate for peace. And we came across these verses, and I remember, like, feeling this electric feel in the room. Like, it just felt like we were being pointed towards these verses as an answer to this question we'd been wrestling with. But look at the language here. Verse 38. Again, I say unto you, sue for peace, not only the people that have smitten you, but also to all people, people. And lift up an ensign of peace and make a proclamation of peace unto the ends of the earth, and make proposals of peace unto those who have smitten you according to the voice of the Spirit which is in you. And all things shall work together for your good. Therefore be faithful and behold, and lo, I am with you even unto the end. Even so. Amen. It's hard to read that and not say that. Yeah, this was intended to bring about peace. Now, I recognize violence in the world is a tough question and we're not going to solve it here, but I don't think anybody can read section 98 and this section and say that Latter Day Saints haven't built on a foundation of peaceful interaction with others. And it became particularly poignant because the last time you and I went to Jackson County, I had just gotten back from Jerusalem. I think I was home a day and a half. And then we flew to Jackson county together to do a gathering out there. And Man. Contrasting the old Jerusalem with the New Jerusalem was so powerful to me to see that sometimes people think violence is the only way to end things for good. But all it does is perpetuate a cycle that goes on for thousands and thousands of years. And I can see the real wisdom in the Lord here saying, they've smitten you. Offer peace. Raise up an ensign of peace. Do everything you can to try and avoid violence. Violence, because violence just leaves a stain that it is so difficult to wash away.
- [109:22]
A
That's powerful. What a great ending to a group of people gathered on the fishing river who wondered whether they would fight or not. And that's how the Lord ends this, this revelation. No, you're not going to fight. Sue for peace, even not just to the enemies who have smitten you, but to all people. Raise an ensign of peace. This is how I want you to be. It seems clear, Casey, that Zion's camp was never fully intended by the Lord. To fight. To be a peacekeeping group, sure, but not to. Not to engage in battle. Even though the Lord just said a couple verses earlier, I want you to build up an intimidating presence here so that people won't come and fight against you. But even though the Lord had mentioned just a couple verses earlier that he wanted them to build up the strength of Zion, to have a protective force so that people will not want to engage in violence with the Latter Day Saints. You see where the Lord lands? Here, it's all about peace. What a beautiful ending to a great revelation.
- [110:19]
B
Okay, let's talk controversies with section 105. There's several we could do, but let's just cut to the chase and do the big one. Was Zion's Camp a failure?
- [110:33]
A
Such a good question. I'm sure those listening have sat in, you know, a dozen Sunday school or seminary lessons where this question has come up, and we are often quick to say, no, it wasn't a failure. It wasn't a failure. This is exactly, you know, how the Lord wanted it to go. And you know, that everything was fine, and people got, you know, they learned leadership skills, and it was good. But I think we need to just look at this, you know, honestly, and say, it's complicated. It's more complicated than that. Right, Right. For instance, the ostensible purpose of Zion's camp was to accompany Governor Duncan's state militia into Jackson county to then create this peacekeeping force once the militia withdrew. Right. Did that happen? Did the purpose of Zion's camp happen? No, it did not. Was it a failure in that sense? I Think we have to say yes. I think we have to say yes. In that sense, it was a failure. Failure, right. Well, is there another sense in which it was not a failure? Yeah, I think we can make that argument, too. But I do want to say before we quote some of those who were there and who say that, like Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff and others, there were others who felt a crack or a chink in their armor of faith at this point. When, when they had accompanied Zion's camp and they came to the fishing river, they were right on the cusp of Jackson County. And then the Lord tells them essentially in section 105, to turn around and go home. There were some that felt like that was the beginning of the slow descent of their faith, that Joseph Smith was still God's prophet. I'm thinking, for instance, of David Whitmer. David Whitmer will say years later, mind you, but he'll say that 1834 was the beginning for him of a lack of confidence that Joseph Smith was still guided by God. In other words, he saw the failure of Zion's camp as evidence that Joseph Smith was no longer guided by God as he had once been. Like when he translated the Book of Mormon. David Whitmer will say. So I just wanted to complicate it a little bit. And let's not just rush to this conclusion that, no, it was great. This was just preparation for future leaders. Like it did that actually, for some people. For others, it did not do that.
- [112:49]
B
Let me point out a couple things. Governor Duncan went back on his promise. So it's easy enough to say, yeah, Zion's camp didn't accomplish its aims, but it's because Governor Duncan backed out. But that doesn't quite match the revelation. The section 105 doesn't mention Governor Duncan. It mentions the people in Jackson county in general and talks about how they will receive their just rewards for this horrible actions they've taken. But it starts out by addressing the saints first, where it introduces. Introduces this wonderful attitude you see in the Scriptures, where instead of placing blame on somebody else, the Lord asks us to look inward. Like at the Last Supper, when the Savior says, one of you is going to betray me. And the apostles don't go, it's Judas, right? They say, lord, is it I? And the Lord asks us to look inward and say, yeah, Governor Dunklan went back on his word. The people mistreated you terribly, but you can't do a lot about that. That's my department. What can you do about yourself and how can you change it? The other thing too is again, David Whitmer wrote all this stuff near the end of his life when he was so certain about everything. He is in the church for three years after this. He's a strong supporter of Joseph Smith, even though he started to first have his doubts here. But, yeah, it's easy to be a fair weather Latter Day Saint when everything's going well and life is easy. But when life gets hard, that's when it feels like. Sorry to use an old analogy, but that's when the diamonds are created. So let me push back with a more traditional perspective. Brigham Young says this is in an 1853 discourse. This has become the classic quote about Zion's camp. But he pushes a little bit further. So I'm going to read a little bit more than what normally gets ready. This is what he says he said. When I returned from that mission, referring to Zion's camp to Kirtland, a brother said to me, brother Brigham, what have you gained by this journey? I replied, just what we went for. But I would not exchange the knowledge I have received this season for the whole of Ga county. For property and mines of wealth are not to be compared to the worth of knowledge. Ask those brothers and sisters who have passed through the scenes of affliction and suffering for years in this church what they would take in exchange for their experience and be placed back where they were were it possible. This is the extended version of the quote where he's not just talking about Zion's camp. He's saying, ask anybody in the church that's been through a tough experience and see what they have to say. He says, I presume they would tell you that all the wealth, honors and riches of the world could not by the knowledge they had obtained, could they barter it away. Let the brethren be contented. And if you have tried trials and must see hard times, learn to acknowledge the hand of the Lord in it all. Just comes back to this idea again that, hey, everybody has it hard. It's a question of what you choose to do with it that really makes the difference. It takes me back to this classic talk by Richard G. Scott, and I know memory of him is fading in the church. He's been gone for 10 years now, but he lost his wife. He lost his wife and he spent the last 20 years in general conference, mentioning her in almost every talk. But the first talk he gave after she died, he made this profound statement where he said, you can sit there and say, why did this happen? Or you can sit there and say, what am I supposed to learn from this? And David Whitmer was a why did this happen? It was Joseph Smith's fault kind of guy. And Brigham Young was a what am I supposed to learn from this? What did I gain from this kind of guy person. And that separates the two in large measure. It's not the events. They both experienced the same events. It's how they chose to react to them that made the big difference.
- [116:29]
A
Yeah, there's others, I think that their voices need to be heard who were part of this right to push back against the David Whitmers and others, the naysayers, as Brigham Young said. Here's another quote from Brigham Young. He said, I told those brethren that I was well paid for his Zion's camp. Those who are naysayers, those were pushing back against Brigham Young. He said, I was paid with heavy interest, yea, that my cup was filled to overflowing with the knowledge that I had received by traveling with the Prophet. That's another one of those well known quotes. This one from Wilford Woodruff is also really valuable. In 1869, he said, when the members of Zion's camp were called, many of us had never beheld each other's faces. We were strangers to each other and many had never seen the Prophet. We had been scattered abroad like corn sifted in a sieve throughout the nation. We were young men and were called upon in that early day to go up and redeem Zion. And what we had to do, we had to do by faith. We assembled together from the various states at Kirtland and went up to redeem Zion in fulfillment of the commandment of God unto us. And then he says, God accepted our works as he did the works of Abel Abraham. We accomplished a great deal, by the way. That's interesting, isn't it? To make a connection to Abraham, Abraham was commanded to do a thing. Once Abraham showed his willingness to do the thing, the Lord said, I don't require you to do that thing. Right. Speaking of his sacrifice of Isaac, Wilford Woodruff goes on and says, we accomplished a great deal. Though apostates and unbelievers many times asked the question, what have you done? And here's Wilford Woodruff's answer. Here's what we did. We gained an experience that we never could have gained in any other way. We had the privilege of beholding the face of the prophet and we had the privilege of traveling a thousand miles with him and seeing the workings of the Spirit of God with him and the revelations of Jesus Christ unto him and the fulfillment of those revelations. Had I not gone up with Zion's camp, He said in 1869, as an apostle, I should not have been here today. Let me share one more. This. This is Levi Hancock. Levi Hancock is so awesome. Like, he. He left Zion to march with Zion's camp shortly after his son's birth, like his wife had just given birth to a new son. He enjoyed that. And then he left, like he left his wife with this newborn baby back in Kirtland. And point being that he sacrificed a ton to do this. Here's what he said. The prophet Joseph Smith taught us in this group that, quote, we had to unlearn what we had learned from the world. That was part of the purpose of Zion's camp. He said the first lesson was that Israel's God was a man of reason and did not delight in the death of the sinners, but wanted them to turn and live. And then he says, in retrospect, while Zion's camp failed to achieve its ostensible purpose of protecting the Jackson County Saints, it brought to the four faithful men who were willing to answer, at whatever cost the Lord's call. Nine of the first 12 apostles and all of the first quorum of the 70. That's seven presidents. And 63 members were later called from the ranks of camp members, he said, among whom, by the way, was Levi Hancock. He was chosen as one of the presidents of the 70, but that's his perspective, and we got to honor those who were there. Not everyone had the same experience. Not everyone has a. The same perspective. But these people, the Wilford Woodruffs, the Levi Hancocks, the Brigham Youngs, they all attest that this was incredibly valuable and incredibly formative in their abilities to lead the church going forward.
- [120:03]
B
And they're the ones that go on and build. I love David Whitmer, but, gosh, I don't know how much he built, to be honest with you. So if I have to choose between his leadership and Brigham Young's, I'm going to go with the person who sees the lesson in things and not just the fault in others.
- [120:20]
A
And Casey, just to cap all of this off this section, let me quote President Dallin H. Oaks on this question of was it a failure or not? And you'll see him massaging both sides here. He says, quote, according to its ostensible purpose, Zion's camp was a failure. Boom, there you go. Was it a failure? Yep, it was. And then he says, but most of the men who were to lead the church for the next half century, including those who would take the Saints across the plains and colonize the inner mountain west, came to know the prophet Joseph. We heard that with Levi Hancock and with Wilford Woodruff and Brigham Young. And they received their formative leadership training in the march of Zion's Camp. And so in that sense, President Oaks says, it was not a fit failure. And so there you go. That's kind of the two ways this question typically lands. And I think that's valuable. I remember Elder Bednar gave a talk all about Zion's camp back at BYU Idaho Education Week in the year 2010, if anyone wants to look it up. But he once said about this, trying to apply it to all of us today. He said, we're going to have Zion's Camp like things, right? That may not go the way that we thought. They're going to go tests that don't seem like tests. He said this quote, as individuals and in our families, we too will be tested, sifted and prepared, as were the members of Zion's camp. And then he said, the Scriptures and the declarations of the apostles and prophets don't indicate that faithful members of the church will have trials and tests removed from their lives. We're going to have trials and we're going to have tests. And sometimes times you don't even know their tests, he says. For instance, he says, consider brothers and sisters, that affluence, prosperity and ease can be tests in our day equal to or greater in intensity than the persecution and physical hardships endured by the Saints who volunteered to march in Zion's camp. That's interesting. Think about that. That Latter Day Saints are in one way or another, whether through ease and affluence of persecution and physical hardship or everything in between, we're always being tested and refined, like President Eyring once said. Although no, no two trials are exactly alike. He said, what's being tested is always the same at all times in our lives and for every person. Here's what he says the test is, will we do whatsoever the Lord our God will command us. That's the test. And we see the Lord at the beginning of section 105 mentioning this very thing, right? You have not yet looked at, learned how to be obedient to me completely. And we've got to learn it in all aspects of our lives, whether in affluence or in affliction, whether in prison cells or with unlimited cell phone service. Casey, see what I did there? Whether we're marching a thousand miles across the United States, in the middle of the summer or whether we need to walk across the street to visit a neighbor or to attend the temple regularly. The test is always in the air here. So that's how Elder Bednar and President Eyring kind of think through sort of some modern applications for all this, for all of us.
- [123:35]
B
Amen to both of what they said. I'll just add my own feeling that the lesson, one of the reasons why we keep coming back to Zion's camp. I don't know if there's an episode in church history you and I have discussed more, more than Zion's Camp, but that lesson that life doesn't always turn out in the direction that you think it's going to go, but you have to pivot and respond to circumstances. And how you respond is just as important as what happens to you. In fact, that's the only thing you really have control over. Right. I know so many people out there who thought, this is going to be the person that I marry, or this is going to be the career that I choose, or this is going to be where I make my home. And then circumstances changed. And those that are able to adjust and maintain their faith in God and even grow their faith in God during those difficult episodes are the ones that seem to really endure the test well.
- [124:26]
A
Okay, Casey, let's wrap this up with the consequences of section 105.
- [124:37]
B
Huge, huge impacts on the church. One of the things we barely touched on is there's a cholera outbreak after the revelation is received, and nearly everybody, including Joseph Smith, gets very, very sick. Cholera is a very deadly disease. In fact, this is how Joseph Smith later describes it. He says, at the commencement of the cholera outbreak, I attempted to lay on hands for their recovery. But I quickly learned by painful experience that when the Great Jehovah decrees destruction upon any people and makes known his determination, man must not attempt to stay his hand. The moment I attempted to rebuke the disease, I was attacked. It seized upon me like the talons of a hawk. And I said to the brethren, if I had my work done, you have had to tumble me into the ground without a coffin. And had I not desisted, I must have saved the life of my brother by the sacrifice of my own. So even Joseph Smith has this brush with mortality. I think 13 members of Zion's camp die from the cholera outbreak. This is maybe under emphasized in the fact that we always talk about how they have this journey together and they get to know each other. Joseph Smith gets to know Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball. And Parley P. Pratt and all these people. But he also, at the end of this journey, has this brush with mortality that possibly caused him to start thinking about continuity, succession. Who's going to take his place if anything goes wrong? What if I had died from the cholera that afflicted Zion's camp camp? What would I have done? And so that may have been something that impels him to start thinking about, well, who would take my place? And is this movement bigger than just myself? Who's going to continue the work of Jesus Christ if I'm removed from the scene? And it's during this stay in Missouri that he takes the first step towards succession, which is he ordained David Whitmer to take his place. That's logical. Joseph Smith is the stake president in Kirtland, and David Whitmer is the stake president of Missouri. So initial succession was the other stake president will take over. But when he gets back to Kirtland, it's only a couple months after, in the winter of 1834-1835, that he starts making steps towards saying, we can't just have a small group of people that's too fragile. We need to have several councils that lead the church. And he gathers together the men of Zion's camp. And here's the classic quote where he addresses the fact that they didn't fight in Missouri. He says, brethren, some of you were angry with me because you did not fight in Missouri. But let me tell you, God did not want you to fight. He could not organize his kingdom with 12 men to open the gospel door to the nations of the earth, and with 70 men under their direction to follow in their tribe tracks, unless he took them from a body of men who had offered their lives and who had made as great a sacrifice as did Abraham. So it does take time, but seems like he reframes this to say this was a kind of Abrahamic test. And one of the primary lessons he takes from it is that now that we have a group that have been tested and tried, it's time for us to expand the leadership of the church. And nine of the original 12 apostles in the first quorum of the 12 are veterans of Zion's camp. All seven presidents of the 70 and 63 members of the 70s quorum march with Zion's camp. And Joseph Young, who's Brigham Young's brother, remembered Joseph Smith saying, now the Lord has got his 12 and his 70, and there will be other quorums of 70 skulls who will make the sacrifice and those who have not made their sacrifices and their offerings will make them hereafter after. Meaning they're tying together all these people that have made the sacrifice. They're going to become the leaders of the church.
- [128:23]
A
Yeah. And that's where we're headed next week. Right. There's a revelation that's given to the quorum of the 12. We call it section 107 of the doctrine and Covenants. It's about them as they're about to go on their kind of first mission together. And so we'll look forward to picking up there next week knowing that this had all just happened. Right. Right. Zion's camp had led to the formation of another couple councils in the church called the Council of the Twelve Apostles and the Council of the Seventy. And with that, we now take things to the next level in terms of church governance and the ability in an organized way to take the gospel to the nations. And so things are about to ramp up. So buckle up for next week as we cover sections 106 through 108.
- [129:10]
B
All right, see you then.