184 - Merry Christmas! What's Next for Church History Matters with Scott and Casey? - E52 December 22-28

Summary

Church History Matters Podcast — Episode 184 Summary

Title: Merry Christmas! What's Next for Church History Matters with Scott and Casey? (E52 December 22-28)
Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Scott and Casey (Scripture Central)

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Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

In this special holiday episode, Scott and Casey reflect on their year-long journey through the Doctrine and Covenants, express gratitude to listeners, and discuss exciting changes coming for 2026. The hosts announce a transition from the "Come, Follow Me" format to their original deep-dive series exploring complex and controversial topics in Latter-day Saint Church history. They outline upcoming topics, explain the reasoning for the shift, and invite active listener participation going forward.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reflecting on the Doctrine and Covenants Series

• Both hosts express appreciation for the collaborative learning and audience engagement over the past year.
  • “Doing a deep dive into every single section and going over almost every single verse has just been a joy and a pleasure.” — Casey (00:46)
• Scott cites the value of communal study:
  • “Scripture was written to be read in community….the more I’ve thought about that, the more I just have to wholeheartedly agree.” — Scott (01:20)
• The sense of gratitude extends to the audience:
  • “Those of you that have invited us into your home or community, we are really, really grateful to have had the opportunity.” — Casey (01:42)

2. 2026 Changes: No “Come, Follow Me” Old Testament Series

• After much deliberation, Scott and Casey announce they won’t be leading the Old Testament series for "Come, Follow Me."
  • “We made the decision that we are not going to do the Old Testament. Come, Follow Me.” — Casey (02:06)
• Instead, their friend John Hilton III will spearhead a new Old Testament format for Scripture Central, described as a “classroom with a live studio audience.”
  • “Enjoy the Old Testament with our friend John Hilton. We can’t endorse him enough. He’s fantastic.” — Scott (03:10)

3. Returning to Deep-Dive Church History Series

• The hosts return to the podcast’s original mission: exploring difficult, nuanced topics in church history.
  • “Our original vision for Church History Matters was not to do Come, Follow Me, but to do series that do deep dives into really challenging issues in church history.” — Casey (04:01)
• Past topics have included polygamy, race and the priesthood, multiple First Vision accounts, violence in Church history, the Book of Abraham, and Church finances.
  • “We’ve tackled some of the big ones...We did polygamy. We’ve done race and the priesthood. We’ve done multiple accounts of the first vision.” — Scott (04:12)

4. Purpose of Tackling Challenging Topics

• Scott emphasizes their intent is to help people navigate faith and complexity:
  • “Faith and complexity can coincide. So at the end of the day, we’re just trying to be helpful.” — Scott (05:21)
• Casey mentions the importance of equipping listeners:
  • “One of our series was actually called Good Thinking in Church History and Doctrine, which was kind of a teach-a-man-to-fish effort to give you the tools...” — Casey (06:09)
• Audience feedback and requests have heavily influenced their upcoming plans:
  • “One of the reasons why we’ve decided to go back to doing series on tough questions is listeners and viewers...have been reaching out to us and asking us to do series on specific topics.” — Casey (07:00)

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New Deep-Dive Series Topics for 2026

Highlighted topics for upcoming multi-episode explorations:

• Women and the Priesthood
  • “Maybe that’s our number one most requested topic, isn’t it, Casey?” — Scott (07:43)
• The Word of Wisdom
  • “Let’s do the entire history of the Word of Wisdom throughout the history of the church and how it’s changed and developed over time.” — Casey (08:09)
• The Church in the Holy Land
  • Discussion of missions to Palestine, the BYU Jerusalem Center, and future prospects
• Brigham Young: Life and Controversies
  • “No shortage of controversy there…” — Scott (09:07)
• The King Follett Discourse and Nauvoo Discourses
  • Emphasis on the significance and the controversies surrounding these teachings
• History of the Salt Lake Temple
  • To coincide with its rededication and upcoming open house
• History of Polemics Against the Church
  • Exploring anti-Mormon arguments from early critics to present day, with potential participation from non-LDS scholars
  • “Another one I’m pretty excited about is the history of polemics against the Church…” — Scott (10:31)
• Historical Shifts on Zion
  • Lighthearted exchange joking about their disagreements on the topic

“There’s so much to talk about in church history that, I mean, I think we’ve got decades, if not centuries of material to go through…” — Casey (12:46)

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First Series for 2026: Science and Religion

• Set to launch in early 2026, this new series will tackle the perceived conflicts (and potential harmony) between scriptural accounts (esp. Genesis/Creation) and scientific discovery.
• Guest interviews feature people of both faith and science.
  • “One of the most classic attacks on people of faith is to say that the Bible is contradicted by science… We want people to know that you can be both. You can be both a person of reason and be a person of faith…” — Casey (13:26)

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Community Engagement and Feedback

• Listeners are encouraged to submit topic requests and participate in ongoing conversations, particularly through YouTube comments or via email through Scripture Central. Casey reads every YouTube comment and enjoys engaging with listeners.
  • “We just really love to hear and interact and we think of this whole venture as a big collaboration…” — Casey (15:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the show’s enduring mission:
  “Faith and complexity can coincide. So at the end of the day, we’re just trying to be helpful.” — Scott (05:21)
• On upcoming content:
  “We have decades, if not centuries of material to go through.” — Casey (12:46)
• On science and faith:
  “You can be both a person of reason and be a person of faith, the two are not enemies, that they can coexist and they can flourish together.” — Casey (13:43)
• Holiday Message:
  “Christmas is a time to remember that we are all children of a Father in heaven who gave his only begotten Son that all would be redeemed from death, and who has offered the blessings of salvation and exaltation to all mankind on the same conditions.” — President Dallin H. Oaks, quoted by Scott (15:54)

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Technical and Channel Updates

• YouTube Listeners:
  The Church History Matters podcast will move to its own dedicated channel on YouTube for 2026 ("Church History Matters" channel).
• Audio Listeners:
  No changes; continue using existing podcast platforms and feeds.

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Closing: Hosts’ Christmas Reflections

• The episode concludes with the hosts sharing gratitude, Christmas wishes, and reaffirming that their shared commitment is to help listeners find wisdom and faith amid the complexities of church history.

“What really started the history of the church was the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the founder and the true head of this church.” — Casey (16:36)

“Merry Christmas, everybody.” — Scott (17:59) and Casey (18:01)

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[End of Episode 184 Summary]

Transcript

[A]

Merry Christmas, Scott.

[B]

Merry Christmas, Casey.

[A]

I've noticed you are wearing your Christmas sweater.

[B]

Well, I mean, it's for our Christmas episode. Yeah, I thought I'd put on some Christmas swag. What's your. What's your Christmas attire, Casey?

[A]

I don't have any Christmas attire, I'm sorry to say. I do have a Christus right here behind me. I'm keeping the Christ in Christmas by. By having him kind of be on my shoulder.

[B]

We're gonna count the Christus. Well, Casey, we're done with the Doctrine and Covenants. We. Man, that was a ride. And boy, we just want to thank all of you out there who stuck with us all year long and studied the Doctrine and Covenants with us. It's been a lot of fun and a lot of work and we have.

[A]

Learned a lot, too. I'm going to say, doing a deep dive into every single section and going over almost every single verse has just been a joy and a pleasure. And even though I've been teaching the Doctrine and Covenants for years, I learned a few things. So thank you for that, Scott.

[B]

Oh, yeah, right back at you. Something about being collaborative when you study scripture. You know, I. I'm a big admirer of the Bible Project, which I'll happy to give a big shout out for 2026. If you want some really cool little explainer videos to understand the Old Testament next year, check out Bibleproject.org but one of the things they like to emphasize on Bibleproject, Casey, I thought about it with restoration Scripture too, is that scripture was written to be read in community. It wasn't just written to be studied alone. And the more I've thought about that, the more I just have to wholeheartedly agree. And I think that played out as you and I got to study scripture together in 2025. So thanks again for that.

[A]

Yeah. Those of you that have invited us into your home or your community, we are really, really grateful to have had the opportunity to go through the Doctrine and Covenants with you.

[B]

But alas, Casey, the year has come to an end. So what are we doing now? What are we going to do in 2026?

[A]

Let me stage this several stages. The first is to just let you know that after a lot of thought and prayer and consideration and conversation, we made the decision that we are not going to do the Old Testament. Come, follow me. And that was difficult for both of us to let go of. Right. I think we were getting genuinely excited, but then we had a change of heart and we have recruited someone who's really wonderful and really amazing. Who's going to be Scripture Central's point person on Come Follow me for the Old Testament? And that is our mutual friend, John Hilton iii. John is going to do kind of an interesting format where it's a classroom where he's the teacher. For the last couple months, Scripture Central has been inviting audiences to come in and let John teach them. And it'll be very much kind of a super duper gospel doctrine type format where you go through the Old Testament with John, who' an expert scholar in the Old and New Testament and just a great teacher and just a fine human being.

[B]

Filmed before a live studio audience. That'll be fun. Yeah, John's awesome. So enjoy the Old Testament with our friend John Hilton. We can't endorse him enough. He's fantastic. Which then puts us where Casey so I guess the bad news is we're not doing Old Testament. Any good news here?

[A]

Very good news. The good news is we're actually, and this was our choice, returning to our original format that we had before 2020, which was the whole purpose that we started this podcast. And if you haven't heard our origin story, church history matters started when Scott and I went on a trip to Nauvoo to film a video about the martyrdom of Joseph Smith. We took along our wives and there's a three hour drive back from Nauvoo to St. Louis, where we were flying home from. And during that drive, a conversation started up where we said, we just wish there was more material out there to help people tackle the tough issues in church history.

[B]

History.

[A]

And so our original vision for church history matters was not to do Come follow me but to do series that do deep dives into really challenging issues in church history.

[B]

Yeah. And we've tackled some of the big ones already. Casey. Right. We did what we've done polygamy. We've done race and the priesthood. We've done multiple accounts of the first vision. We've dealt with the Book of Abraham. We've done. What do we do? Violence.

[A]

And I mean violence in Latter Day Saint history, church finance. That was a really fun one.

[B]

Yeah, that sounds really boring, but there's some controversies in there, folks. Yeah.

[A]

And these series are basically like a deep dive over multiple episodes where we explore in depth these questions. And then we usually concluded each series with an expert. We invited an expert to come on board and we actually fielded questions from listeners who wanted to hear what these experts had to say. So if you've enjoyed our format in the Last year, with the four Cs, where we did context, content, controversies and consequences, those are all still there. But it's sort of like we've upped the controversies because we're specifically going after things that are complicated or controversial or that it might help to do a deep dive to fully understand how those things happened in church history.

[B]

Yeah. And we're not just doing controversies for controversy's sake. I mean, these are the kinds of things that trip people up in their faith. Right. And so that's really where this came from. Right. It came from a place of, gosh, we feel like it's unnecessary that someone would. Would go through a faith crisis because of X, Y or Z topic. Right. This difficult issue over church finances or over the book of Abraham or over race in the priesthood or over polygamy. Like, yes, they're complicated. Yes, there's a lot going on there. But we feel like you can maintain your faith and deal with controversy at the same time with the right tools, the right framing, the right context, the right scholarship that's just fundamental to the premise of church history matters, is that faith and complexity can coincide. So at the end of the day, we're just trying to be helpful.

[A]

Yeah. And one of our series was actually called Good Thinking in Church History and Doctrine, which was kind of a teach a man to fish sort of effort to give you the tools so that you can go out there and tackle these complex issues on your own, but also help people that you love who might be struggling with these issues as well. So if you joined us for the Doctrine and Covenants this year, we're so glad that you did, but we hope that you'll stick with us as we leave the regular come follow me schedule and go back to tackling these tough topics with multiple episodes that do a deep dive and hopefully give you the tools necessary to understand the complexity and to, in turn, help others that might be struggling with these issues. And one of the reasons why we've decided to go back to doing series on tough questions is listeners and viewers, just like you, have been reaching out to us and asking us to do series on specific topics. In fact, in my office, I can keep a whiteboard where I've been writing down all the suggestions that people have given to us for series that we want to do. And so we love to do this. This is what we did for two years before we tackled the Doctrine and Covenants, and we've just been building up ahead of steam to tackle these topics that we're going to plan on. Doing for 2026 and beyond. I mean, I don't even know if we'll get through all these in 2026, but this is kind of what we're looking at and what the landscape is going to be like in 2026. So let a couple. Scott, what are a few things you're excited to talk about?

[B]

Yeah, in no particular order, women and the priesthood. Maybe that's our number one most requested topic, isn't it, Casey? Yeah, women and the priesthood. And we don't want to spill all the beans now, but we're excited to talk about that one. We've already kind of laid out an outline for that with a very special guest that we'll tell you more about later. So that one's, that one's huge for me. The Word of Wisdom. Is that the second most requested topic?

[A]

That is probably our second most requested topic is we've just had a lot of people say your episode on Section 89 was wonderful. Let's do more. Let's do the entire history of the Word of Wisdom throughout the history of the church and how it's changed and developed over time. This is one that I've just been itching to do for a really long time. But I wanted to talk about the church in Palestine, the church in the Holy Land, all the missions, starting with Orson Hyde, to go back to Jerusalem and that sacred part of the world and what happened there, how the BYU Jerusalem center was built, how many times the Holy Land has been dedicated, which might surprise you, and then what the future of the church is in the Holy Land. Another one that I'm salivating over right now is to talk about the life of Brigham Young, to do an in depth dive into our second president of the church, Brigham Young, who there's no shortage of controversy there, right, Scott? There's plenty to talk about.

[B]

Yeah. Definitely no shortage of controversies there. So, yeah, I don't know if it's going to be is it going to be biographical or topical? But yeah, I like Brigham Young, His Life and Controversies. We don't have the title yet, but it's going to be fun.

[A]

It's going to be fun.

[B]

Yeah. We're also looking forward to talking about like the King Follett discourse amidst the Nauvoo discourses of Joseph Smith, a series on his discourses there which were so controversial that they get cited in the anti newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor which is going to ultimately lead to the death of Joseph Smith. So talk about controversial.

[A]

And that one, I was a Little sad. It's not in the Doctrine and Covenants, but it's a huge part of the history of the Church and a huge part of our thinking and theology. And so that one, we're looking at the King Follet discourse specifically, but maybe the Nauvoo discourses of Joseph Smith that surround it and that inform the theology that's in the King Follet discourse. The next one is a little timely, but in the next year and a half here, Salt Lake Temple is going to be rededicated and reopened and there's going to be probably the biggest open house in the history of the church where people can come in and see it. So one of our ideas was to do a series on the history of the Salt Lake Temple specifically and maybe throw in some temple theology there as well.

[B]

Another one I'm pretty excited about is the history of polemics against the Church, meaning people arguing against the church antis like from the very beginning, from what was that book Mormonism Unveiled, from Mormonism Unveiled, maybe even earlier, Ezra Booth's letters that we talked about from section 71, 73 that we mentioned earlier this year all the way to kind of modern discourse against the Church. What's been the history, the trajectory there? A lot of the arguments against it were embedded within sort of the Christian culture, a lot of Protestant arguments against the Church. So it might be fun to kind of engage some of those arguments, but also to back up and just kind of talk about the history of that as such and invite on the show not just Latter Day Saints, but also maybe some of our friends who I think have done some pretty good work on this, some Protestant friends of ours to talk about what they're doing in this space in trying to like bring the temperature in the room down against the Mormons, especially after the, the attack in Michigan. Anyway, lots to talk about there with the history of polemics against the Church. So I'm really looking forward to that one.

[A]

I thought you were going to say you were going to bring some anti Mormons on and I was like, I object. But these are well meaning friends of other faiths who have tracked some of this. And then I can't believe you put this on the list, Scott, but you want to talk about Zion, you want to talk about the historical shifts. I feel like we have spent a year arguing we don't agree on this. It's clear that we don't agree. It kept coming up again and again and again. But hey, I'm going to settle this once and for all and Prove that I'm right and you're wrong. So that'll be fun.

[B]

Okay, so you can look forward to that. That's just. I don't know. What else are we missing? Will we be able to cover all of those in 2026? Who knows?

[A]

I don't know. But I remember when we first started this podcast, we were on the podcast of our dear friends Hank and John, and we said, we're doing a podcast on church history. And I think it was. I can't remember who it was, but one of them said, oh, y. How long will it take you to finish that? And we were like, never. We'll never finish.

[B]

What is this word? Finish?

[A]

There's so much to talk about in church history that, I mean, I think we've got decades, if not centuries of material to go through, and we're creating it as we go. So we can't promise we're going to do all These series in 2026. That's just what's on the whiteboard right now. However, we have locked in and already started work on our very first series for 2026. And, Scott, do you want to. This one's going to be. Drum roll.

[B]

Science and Religion.

[A]

That is right.

[B]

Yeah. How about some controversy there, huh? Casey? Why. Why science and religion? Why did we choose that one first?

[A]

Well, we. We knew we weren't going to do the Old Testament. Come, follow me. But we wanted to do something that was closely linked to the Old Testament. And one of the most classic attacks on people of faith is to say that the Bible is contradicted by sc. So this series is going to have us go through some of those early texts, especially the book of Genesis, the creation story, and all those things that are so important to us as Latter Day Saints, and try and figure out how we can square what we read in the scriptures with what we've discovered through modern scientific methods. And we've invited some wonderful guests. We've already recorded several episodes, people that are going to come on and help us explain how they navigate being a person of faith and being a person of science as well. We felt like this is one of the big issues that not only fits with the Old Testament, but that touches on every aspects of our life. And we want people to know that you can be both. You can be both a person of reason and be a person of faith, that the two are not enemies, that they can coexist and they can flourish together. Some of these series ideas we came up with on our own, but a lot of them have come from requests from people like you that have supported us and helped us through the years and made this venture such a joy to be engaged in. We also hope that you won't be shy in reaching out and contacting us. Reach out to Scripture Central and letting us know your ideas of topics you want to talk about in church history now that we're back to deep dives into specific topics.

[B]

Yeah, so let them fly. You can start doing that right in the comments on this episode too, if you are on YouTube. Casey, I heard you say recently that you look at every comment in the YouTube comment section. Is that true?

[A]

I do, yeah. And thanks for those of you that comment and and I've engaged a lot of you in really wonderful discussions. I don't know if I should tell Everybody what my YouTube name is, but I'm not going to because it's just fun to kind of jump in when I have time and interact with people that watch our YouTube. But also a fair number of you have emailed us through Scripture Central and we hope you'll keep doing that too. We just really love to hear and interact and we think of this whole venture as a big collaboration where we're just exploring this thing that we all love, the history and theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[B]

And that basically is all we wanted to say on this episode. Maybe we'll end with a quote from President Oaks, a little Christmas quote for you that he gave in the Christmas devotional from the First Presidency back in 2022. And here's what President Oak said. Christmas is a time to remember that we are all children of a Father in heaven who gave his only begotten Son that all would be redeemed from death, and who has offered the blessings of salvation and exaltation to all mankind on the same conditions. I love it. We are all the targets of God's mercy in sending his son. He sent him because he loves us and deemed us worthy of redemption, worth saving. And so what a beautiful thought to think about this holiday season.

[A]

Absolutely. Thank you, Scott. President Oaks, words resonate especially this time of year as we reflect on the fact that what brings us all together and what unites us and what really started the history of the church was the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the founder and the true head of this church. Merry Christmas, everybody. We do have a little technical information to share with you as well. And Scott, what do they need to know?

[B]

We hope you'll join us in 2026, but to do so, you can't stay on this YouTube channel. If you're just listening audio wise, then just keep doing what you're doing on Spotify, on Apple, like just keep doing that. And we'll be on that same channel, but on the YouTube. We're going to be over on Church History Matters. That's the name of the channel instead of just Scripture Central's main channel. So John Hilton will be put into the main channel here, as we mentioned, and we will be going over to our own Church History Matters channel of Scripture Central. So look that up just on YouTube. Just type in Church History Matters. Give us a follow and every week when the episode comes out, you should see that. So there you go. We, we look forward to that.

[A]

And thanks again for joining us. And if you just started with the Doctrine and Covenants with us this year, we hope you'll stick with us as we continue to explore both the beauty and the controversies in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[B]

Merry Christmas, everybody.

[A]

Merry Christmas, Scott. See you next year.

[B]

Yep, see you next, Sam.