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206 - U.S. Constitution is Critical to Freedom Everywhere I Church History Matters I Religion & Politics
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Religion and politics, the two things you're
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never supposed to discuss. Right.
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It can never be talked about at Thanksgiving.
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All of the revelations that discuss the Constitution take place in the context of the settlement of Jackson County.
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Joseph Smith didn't actually have a lot to say about government until he personally encountered legal challenges. Flat out declaration from the Lord that he played a role in the creation of the laws and rights that are found in the Constitution.
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The Lord declares that slavery was not in line with just and holy principles.
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It's not all hand holding and lollipops in that document. Right. Like, what about stuff like that?
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These are not happy times for the saints. And that may be underselling it a little bit today.
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Every nation except three have adopted written constitutions.
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Yeah. And in verse 79, he pretty directly calls out one major problem with the Constitution when he says.
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We want to welcome you all to another episode of Church History Matters. If you've been enjoying our Word of Wisdom series, thank you for watching. And today we're actually going to do something a little different. We're going to take a quick break in our Word of Wisdom series to do a special early release episode. Casey, tell them why.
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B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we don't often do special episodes, but as we approach the 250th anniversary of the United States Declaration of Independence, the First Presidency has made a special request that we take some time in the next few weeks to consider the importance of the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. For most of you, this will probably take place on the last Sunday in May of 2026.
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A
Yeah, on that Sunday, there's going to be a special lesson and probably a few talks in sacrament meeting about this topic. And so some of you may have already been asked to speak or to teach on this subject this coming fifth Sunday.
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B
Yes, that is actually part of the reason why we're doing this episode. You see, I was asked to teach the adults in My Word. And Scott, you were asked to do this too. Okay, so this is just lesson prep for us, basically. So I guess we're going to share the outline here with anyone that's interested. So we want to apologize in advance to the people in our words who are listening to this right now because they're largely going to hear what we're going to talk about for the next few minutes.
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A
Yeah, of course our ward members are going to get the benefit of having this be a discussion based rather than just listening to a podcast type of experience. I mean, we're big fans of the podcast platform don't get me wrong, but there's just something special about having a good class discussion.
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B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And. And I'm positive the good people in our wards will have some keen insights into the significance of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence as we discuss it.
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A
So let's take a few minutes and work our way through this topic. And we hope that along the way, you'll gain some value from what we outline. And we should also mention that as I alluded to, today's episode is actually an early release episode, or it was an episode we were planning on recording later for our very next series that we're doing, which is going to be launching in a couple weeks after the Word of Wisdom series finishes. And it's about the history of our church and politics and, Casey, maybe we'll call it our Religion and Politics series, thus ensuring it can never be talked about at Thanksgiving or Christmas or any other family gatherings or in polite company. Religion and politics. I don't know.
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B
The two things you're never supposed to discuss. Right. So this is kind of laying the foundation for that series. This actually probably would have been episode one of that series, but First Presidency moved up the date. And since the church was organized in the context of the early American Republic, it's helpful to know what the political and legal framework was that the saints were. We're operating within to begin with.
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A
Yeah. Before we get too deep into the US Constitution and our church, perhaps we need to ask an obvious question here for our international audience. Casey. In a worldwide church, why do we talk so much about America? You know, like, I mean, you and I are both Americans, and there are a lot of members of the church in the US but we're actually a worldwide church. In fact, something really important happened when we were teenagers, Casey, in 1996. That was the year where there were more church members outside the United States than there were inside the United States. That was a major milestone that. That signaled that the church was transitioning from this like, primarily American institution to a global one. And the international gap has only widened since then. In fact, I just did a little research, and according to the church's latest statistical report released last month, of the current 17.9-ish million church members, 61% of them live outside the US with only 39% living inside of it. So again, I asked the question, why do we talk about America so much? In fact, isn't one of the criticisms of the church that we are an American religion, We are a worldwide church?
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And it might seem kind of odd to people that live outside the United States that we're talking about the United States Declaration of Independence and the American Constitution. But we also want to stress that we cannot and we should not separate the church from the early American context it was restored into.
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A
Even in fact, a few years ago. Then Elder Dallany jokes, he gave a pretty direct address in general Conference on the US Constitution. Again, I stress this was in general conference for a global audience. And he started out by addressing this very question of why we would talk about the American Constitution in a worldwide church. Now, here's just a little sample of what he said. Quote, this Constitution is of special importance to our members in the United States, comma, but it is also a common heritage of constitutions around the world. A constitution is the foundation of government, he said. It provides structure and limits for the exercise of government powers. The United States Constitution is the oldest written Constitution still enforced today. Though originally adopted only by a small number of colonies, it soon became a model worldwide. And then he said, today every nation except three have adopted written constitutions. I didn't know that. And then here's the last line. He said, the United States Constitution is unique because God revealed that he established it for the rights and protection of all flesh. Referencing DNC101 there. That is why he said, this Constitution is of special concern for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints throughout the world. Whether or how its principles should be applied in other nations of the world is for them to decide.
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And that's solid reasoning from President Oaks. And I think that's more than enough justification for our purposes here today. So let's start out by following our own basic methodology that we laid down in our Good Thinking series a while back. So if we're starting a little gospel study on a particular topic, in this case the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, we start with a basic question. What do the scriptures have to say about this?
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That's our first doctrinal lens. And then from that foundation, we look at the second doctrinal lens too, which is what have church leaders said about this? Right. And in particular today, we want to know, what did Joseph Smith say about this? Right.
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Yes.
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So we'll look at both lenses today.
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Yeah. And we want to give credit to someone who really helped accumulate a lot of good resources, a friend of the show, Jack Welch, who wrote a really wonderful article entitled Joseph Smith and the Constitution that was published in a book called Sustaining the Law, Joseph Smith's Legal Encounters. This book came out in 2014.
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A
Now, we'll be drawing a lot from Jack's work here. Really appreciate him. But we also are going to be adding some new sources that weren't available in 2014. We're going to try to pull together some valuable insights from that into how early church leaders talked about and thought about the U.S. constitution. Chief among these newly available sources are the minutes of the Council of 50, which were published in 2015 and can now be found on the Joseph Smith Papers website.
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Yeah, we've talked about them a little bit before, but the council of 50 minutes come from a council formed by Joseph Smith during the final months of his life. And the primary purpose of The Council of 50 was to oversee Joseph Smith's presidential campaign. So it's not surprising that they had a lot to say about government. So that's kind of us setting the table. Now let's get into the sources and start with the first question linked to our first doctrinal lens. What do the Scriptures teach about the Declaration and the Constitution?
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A
Yes. And there's a lot of Scripture out there that you could read to say that it supports or it aligns with the Declaration and Constitution. But for the sake of simplicity, for our purposes today, we're actually going to limit our discussion to just the Scriptures that actually talk about the U.S. constitution. And that means going to the Doctrine and Covenants, which is unique among our Scripture canon. Right. Because this is a set of revelations that were received within the context of the early American Republic.
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Yeah. And before we start to mention what the revelations given to Joseph Smith say about the Constitution, we should probably provide a little more context too, though. First thing would be that we need to acknowledge that the restoration took place just a few decades after the establishment of the United States and the adoption of its Constitution.
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A
Yeah, I think that's important because there's still a number of issues that hadn't been worked out yet that you and I consider pretty fundamental. Like most important among them is the balance of power between the states and the federal government. Still influx during that time period. That's not going to be fully resolved until the American Civil War. And so we shouldn't forget that Joseph Smith and his contemporaries are living in a society actually very different from our American context. Right. They do have a Constitution, but there's some of those really important things that haven't been worked out yet. Certain rights that we take for granted as guaranteed in the Constitution, like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, those weren't fully enforced yet.
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Yeah, that's right. And we should mention that while Joseph Smith was a proud American, and his overall statements show that he saw the Declaration and the Constitution as inspired documents. He also participated in the grand American tradition of not always being happy with the government and the way that it was being run.
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An important American tradition, if I do
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say so, that lives on today.
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Yes, yes, loud and proud. We should also note that Joseph Smith didn't actually have a lot to say about government until he personally encountered legal challenges in one of the most legally dubious parts of the United States at the time, if I may say so, the great state of Missouri. Casey.
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True, true. We could correctly call the state of Missouri in the 1800s the crucible of American democracy, at least where Latter Day Saints are concerned. All of the revelations that discuss the Constitution take place in the context of the settlement of Jackson county and the persecution that the Saints suffered there in the early 1830s. These are not happy times for the Saints, and that may be underselling it
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a little bit, but they do illustrate a lot about the times that the Saints lived in and the conditions of the early American Republic. It's an interesting window into that time frame. Right. Both the good and the bad. And the very first mention of law, like constitutional law, is doctrine and covenants 58, which just happens to be right after the prophet Joseph and a group of others had traveled from Ohio and they just arrived in Missouri. They had received a revelation DNC 57 just before this one, which identified Missouri as the land of promise and the place for the city of Zion, particularly the Jackson county area.
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Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah. And if section 57 identifies Missouri as the land of Zion, then section 58 and also 59 lay down the Lord's instructions for those who are going to build the city of Zion. And it isn't surprising that the Lord's counsel for the saints included a command to be law abiding citizens. So this is what he tells them. Doctrine and Covenants 58, 21, 22. Let no man break the laws of the land. For he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land. Wherefore be subject to the powers that be until he reigns, whose right it is to reign and subdues all enemies
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under his feet, be subject to the powers that be. That seems pretty straightforward, kind of a revelatory version of stay out of trouble and keep your nose clean. And I can also see some early work being laid here for what later becomes the twelfth Article of Faith. Right? Like this idea about being subject to kings and presidents and rulers and magistrates Obeying, honoring, sustaining the law. Like there's the seeds for it right here. Section 58.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. And for a while, I mean, things are okay with the Saints, but it also seems like they're on a collision course with their neighbors, whether or not they obey the law. The Saints brought some unique views with them to the edge of the American frontier. For instance, they saw Native Americans as part of the House of Israel and heirs to the covenant promises. And that's just to start.
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A
Yeah. And let's not forget the Book of Mormon teaching that all are alike unto God, black and white, bond and free, male and female. Now, as great as that sounds to us in our modern ears, those were not popular views in the antebellum south, especially in a slave state like Missouri. Right. So it isn't surprising that the Saints get into hot water when church publisher W.W. phelps publishes an editorial in the church newspaper in Missouri that the locals took to mean that the Saints were inviting free people of color from the Northern states to come and settle among them. And that just blows a gasket for those Southerners.
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And that leads us to the second reference in the Doctrine and Covenants to American law and doctrine and Covenants 98. This time, the Saints really are in danger, and mobs are attacking the church printing press and consecrated businesses in Independence, Missouri. So this is in doctrine and covenants 98, 4, 5. And it says this and now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that the people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them. And that law of the land, which is constitutional, supporting the principle of freedom and maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind and is justifiable before me.
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A
Okay, so on the surface, that could be another obey the law instead of trouble kind of admonition. But the Lord does slip something really interesting in there, right there in verse five, that we might need to chew on for just a second, if that's okay. Like, notice the phrase where he says that the rights and privileges of the US Constitutionally based laws, quote, belong to all mankind. That seems to broaden the idea of viewing the rights guaranteed in the US Constitution as applicable to all people, regardless of what country they live in, doesn't it?
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It's one of the things that President Oaks specifically cited when he gave his talk that we referenced earlier on the American Constitution, that the Lord says, this belongs to all mankind. And this is a powerful argument for why all Latter Day Saints, regardless of their nationality, should take the time to become informed about the US Constitution. These rights and privileges, like freedom of speech and freedom of religion are something every person everywhere has a right to. And a right, I might add, that needs to be protected.
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A
That's true. But here's a question that bubbles up into my mind as you say these words. What about other rights like the right to bear arms, freedom of the press, or. You know what, let's just get really controversial right here for a second, Casey. The right to own slaves. All right. Which was part of the constitution in the 1830s. It's not all hand holding and lollipops in that document. Right? Like, what about stuff like that?
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Yeah, this is where it gets complicated and. And maybe we need to continue to look at what the Lord says about the Constitution. So as persecutions continued against the Saints of Missouri and even to the point to where they were forcibly removed from their homes, the lord gave section 101, which is the most detailed statement on the Constitution in the Doctrine and Covenants. And there is a. A lot to digest here. So let's just take a look at it. This is Doctrine Covenants 101, verses 76 through 80. And it reads, and again, I say unto you those who have been scattered by their enemies, it is my will that they should continue to importune for redress and. And redemption by the hands of those who are placed as rulers and are in authority over you, according to the laws and constitution of the people which I have suffered to be established and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles. That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the constitution of this land by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood. Yeah.
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There's a lot to digest.
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Yeah. Would you think so?
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Yeah. Okay, so the immediate context. Let me just state out loud, what I'm hearing here is that the Lord is asking the Saints to seek help from their recent persecutions in Jackson county. Seek help through the constitutional laws of the country. Right. And then he says these laws are something that he suffered to be established, which could be interpreted. When he says suffered to be established, that could be interpreted to mean that he just allowed these laws to be established, that he didn't prevent these laws from being established. Right. But then in verse 80, he's way more direct. He says, for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land. That elevates the rhetoric significantly right there. This is just a flat out declaration from the Lord that he played a role in the creation of the laws and rights that are found in the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. He just owns his involvement in it.
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B
Yeah, all true. So we also need to address the point you made earlier about the Constitution at the time containing laws about slavery and a few other things. Now notice. Yeah, yeah. So the Lord doesn't just declare the Constitution to be the sole source for truth and justice, but he does say it should be maintained for the rights and protections of all flesh. And here's a key phrase in verse 77, according to Just and holy principles.
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A
So the Constitution has to be weighed against other sources. You're saying like sources, like the Scriptures. So, as in all things, we are being invited here, I think, subtly by the Lord to seek multiple data points to find the correct path to follow. Is that what you're saying here? I think we can both agree that there were things in the Constitution that were not correct. Right. That were not according to just and holy principles. As I mentioned, one example, slavery. Right?
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B
Yeah, yeah. And in verse 79, he pretty directly calls out one major problem with the Constitution when he says, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And I gotta be honest, Scott, I didn't ever notice this verse until Dallin H. Oaks gave a BYU devotional that I attended back in 2020. This was right after President Nielsen gives this really important General Conference address where he began calling for the Saints to lead out in the fight against prejudice based on race. And there it is. As early as 1833, the Lord declares that slavery, which was a major pillar of the American economy at the time, was not in line with just and holy principles.
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A
Yeah. And you could even make a case that the Lord called out slavery a few years earlier. Right. When the Book of Mormon was published. In fact, even as early as 1829, the Book of Mormon describes the ideal society as one where there are no bond or free. No one is distinguished based on their race. No ites remember that in 4th Nephi. That's 1829. He's definitely more explicit in 1833. But I think those seeds are there in the Book of Mormon too.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point, good point. Okay, so that's the most extensive statement on the Constitution. Are there any other Doctrine and Covenants references the Constitution. We should mention here.
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A
The Lord said in verse 80 that he established the Constitution, but he had just said that having people in bondage to one another is not okay, and yet that's part of the Constitution. How should we think of the Constitution knowing both of those things are true? There's things in it that the Lord doesn't approve of, and yet he helped to establish it. Like, how can we reconcile that?
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B
Yeah, it seems like what he's saying here is that the Constitution isn't perfect, that even he has some issues with it. And it has to do with the cultural baggage of the people that established the Constitution. So he does call the people that established the Constitution. What's the wording here? By the hands of wise men whom I raised up for this very purpose. And those men are outstanding. There's no doubt in my mind that people like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and John Adams are all amazing people, but they're also products of their time. And, you know, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, just to cite two examples, I could cite more. Owned slaves. George Washington has a complicated relationship with slavery that I did a deep dive into a couple of years ago. I went to Mount Vernon, and, you know, Mount Vernon is become this museum to George Washington. And you walk through it thinking, man, George Washington's the best. We're so lucky to have this guy. And then you walk out of the house and go down to the slave quarters and think, how could somebody this outstanding morally have such a huge blind spot? So I left disturbed. But I also read a couple of books that summer on George Washington and found out that he had a complicated relationship with it. Like, he was raised in a world where his economic livelihood depended on slavery, but he also became very close friends with several people of African ancestry, and in his will, chose to free his slaves. So he did it in the most peaceful way possible, which is when Martha passes away. Because George passed away first, all the slaves were freed. Essentially. There were other founding fathers, like John Adams. John Adams never had any slaves and thought that it was an abhorrent practice. So did Benjamin Franklin. Benjamin Franklin actually tried to end slavery during his lifetime. And then others, like Thomas Jefferson, acknowledged that it was wrong, but basically said they weren't gonna do anything about it. So my takeaway would be, the Constitution isn't perfect. Neither are the people that made the Constitution, but that it lays the foundation to eventually allow us to start to address some serious, serious problems that have been preventing people from having happiness.
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A
I would just add one more thing to that. As I asked the question, I was reminded of Elder oaks talk, that's April 2021, defending our divinely inspired Constitution, if you want to go look it up. But he actually, he addresses this head on. He says this. He said, our belief that the United States Constitution was divinely inspired does not mean that divine revelation dictated every word and phrase, such as the provisions allocating the number of representatives from each state or the minimum age of each. The Constitution was not a fully grown document, said President J. Reuben Clark. On the contrary, he explained, still quoting President Clark, we believe it must grow and develop to meet the changing needs of an advancing world. For example, inspired amendments abolished slavery and gave women the right to vote. He says, however, we do not see inspiration in every Supreme Court decision interpreting the Constitution. So then he rolls and he says, let me give you at least five divinely inspired principles from the Constitution. Where he sees the fingerprints of God, I think is how I would say he doesn't use that phrase. But he's like, here are the things that I think were inspired. So go check out the talk and dig into it. But I think that's something worth wrestling. Right. There's human involvement and there's divine involvement. And, Casey, we've hashed this out a lot in this whole podcast. Right. Is just this. This idea that that's the nature of our church history. That's the nature of scripture. And now we're seeing this is also the nature of the Lord's involvement in the founding of the United States of America and the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence. Like, there's human and divine going on here. Right. Just like we would expect.
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B
Yeah. So we should be comfortable saying the Constitution is inspired, but it's not perfect. And I would say the legal provisions allowing for slavery are exhibit A. Like, the Lord just flat out condemns them, which means he holds the same opinion in the same set of verses where he says, I caused it to be established and I raised up wise men. He also says, but it's not right that people should be in bondage one to another. I'm not okay with that. We've got to get that fixed. So there's a lot to digest there. I wish we could spend an hour talking about what he meant when he said the land was redeemed by the shedding of blood, because that could go in a lot of different directions, too. What's he talking about and what's he discussing? But I digress.
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Yeah. Okay.
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Okay.
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Okay. So where do we go from here?
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B
Well, lots to chew on there. First, is there any more references to the Constitution in the Doctrine and Covenants that we should probably put in here?
- [27:39]
A
Well, there's just one more that's worth mentioning. I think it's doctrine and Covenants 109, which is the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland Temple is actually in Joseph's prayer that he prayed. And you could find this in verse 54. He said, have mercy, O Lord, upon all the nations of the earth. Have mercy upon the rulers of our land. May those principles which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely the Constitution of our land by our fathers, be established forever.
- [28:12]
B
So that's significant, that he prayed for the principles to be established forever. And that's probably another decent reason to have a fifth Sunday lesson on those principles.
- [28:23]
A
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Okay, so before we go to our next section, then, let's review. What have we learned according to the Doctrine and Covenants? What do we know about the Constitution? I would throw out, first, that church members should be good citizens. We're expected to respect and honor the laws of the land. Right. Fundamental, yes.
- [28:44]
B
And second, the principles illuminated in the Constitution, and I'm going to add the Declaration of Independence here, because it was the precursor to the Constitution, belong to all people, not just to Americans.
- [28:58]
A
Yes, all mankind. And then third, the laws and standards set up in the Constitution have to be measured against the just and holy principles that are found in Scriptures and other sources of truth. The Lord did not say that this was a perfect document or that it would never be changed. Quite the opposite, in fact. Right. He said he was involved in its formation to a degree. But then he also called out one of the points explicitly in the Constitution that he doesn't like, namely slavery. So there you go.
- [29:31]
B
Yeah. And I would add fourth, that the Lord himself established the Constitution through the hands of wise men to carry out these purposes. And he redeemed the land through the shedding of blood, which we mentioned earlier, is a phrase that opens a whole other can of worms. But we're not going to focus on that right now.
- [29:49]
A
Yeah, yeah. Let's keep our focus on the Constitution. So that leads to our next big question for today's episode, which is, what did Joseph Smith have to say about the U.S. constitution?
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B
Yeah, and that can be a little complicated, but Joseph Smith did have a lot to say about the Constitution, especially after the Saints were forcibly evicted from their lands and homes in Jackson county in 1833. And you'll recall that the following spring, he marched all the way to Missouri with Zion's camp as part of an effort to try and help the Saints get their homes back. But as we all know, the effort wasn't successful and the Saints were forced to relocate to another part of Missouri, where again, they faced a severe storm of persecution, this time in 1838. And this eventually results in the infamous extermination order issued by Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs.
- [30:44]
A
And in the years and months leading up to that 1838 conflict, Joseph Smith. This is what's so remarkable to me. He stays really true and consistent in the way that he upholds the Constitution and encourages church members to uphold the Constitution. Like for instance, on July 25, 1836, Joseph counsels members of the church in Missouri to be wise. Let prudence dictate all your counsels. Preserve peace with all men. If possible, stand by the constitution of your country, observe its principles, and above all, show yourselves, men of God, worthy citizens. So I think we see here Joseph emphasizing that government works only when citizens obey the law. Any law that's dictated and imposed from the top down can result in tyranny. As Governor Boggs damnable extermination order demonstrates. Right. So. So we see here Joseph urging the Saints to be blameless in their dealings with their Missouri neighbors. Maybe that'll help.
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B
Yeah. And around the same time, Joseph Smith expressed the hope that these are his words. All nations will adopt the God given Constitution of the United States as the Palladium, that is Statue of Liberty and equal rights. And by the way, let me discourse on the Palladium, because I grew up in Delta and we have a Palladium like it was such a big palladium. The Palladium was anciently in a city like the place where you house the. It was like a shrine to the values of your city. So it was a big deal when Delta built this huge new sports complex and named it the Palladium. And everybody in Delta had to rush to their dictionary and figure out what Palladium meant, but that's basically it. Like, it's the. It's the place that showcases your values. He's saying that's what the Constitution should be effectively. And this was just a few months after Joseph Smith had prayed in the dedication of the Kirtland Temple that we mentioned earlier, where he prayed for the principles of the Constitution to be upheld. And he's trying to find a way to assist the Saints in Missouri who are still striving to find a way to regain their lands in Jackson County. But only a few months later, he relocates to Missouri after the church in Kirtland falls into apostasy. Shortly after his arrival, he writes something in his journal that seems to demonstrate that the importance of the Constitution was foremost in his mind.
- [33:15]
A
Yeah, and let's quote a little bit from that journal. It's March 16, 1838. And just keep in mind that he was, he was kicked out of Kirtland just two months earlier. Like death threats, people saying that they would kill him if they found him. And so he fled with his family in the United States of America to Far West Missouri, which is north of Jackson County. Right. And so here's what he says he said, after being at Far west two or three days, my brother Samuel arrived with his family. And shortly after his arrival, while walking with him and certain other brethren, the following sentiments occurred to my. The Constitution of our country, formed by the fathers of liberty, peace and good order in society. Love to God and good will to man. All good and wholesome laws, virtue and truth above all things and aristarchy, live forever. But woe to tyrants, mobs, aristocracy, anarchy and toryism, and all those who invest or seek out unrighteous and vexatious lawsuits under the pretext and color of law or office, either religious or political. Exalt the standard of democracy down with that of priestcraft and let all the people say Amen. That the blood of our fathers may not cry from the ground against us. Sacred is the memory of that blood which bought for us our liberty.
- [34:38]
B
Yeah. And during the so called Mormon war that takes place in 1838 in northwest Missouri, Joseph often invokes the rights in the Constitution as part of the reason why the Saints are fighting to defend their homes. So in Gallatin, Missouri, vastly outnumbered group of Saints struggled to defend their Civil Rights and August 6, 1838, in fact, you'll recall they were going to Gallatin to vote and the Missourians lined up to like stop them from voting and it turns into a whole brawl. Basically. Joseph writes, blessed be the memory of those few brethren who contended so strenuously for their constitutional rights and religious freedom against such an overwhelming force of desperados. And then a couple weeks later, on October 13, 1838, just as the conflict is really beginning to escalate, Joseph gave this statement to a New York newspaper. He said, we are friendly to the Constitution and laws of this state and of the United States and we wish to see them enforced.
- [35:45]
A
When Far west was put under siege and Joseph was betrayed to the Missouri militia, he even told this story about a meeting with one of the commanders on the scene, a guy named Moses Wilson. He said, I inquired of him why I was thus treated. I told him I was not aware of having done anything worthy of such treatment, that I had always been a supporter of the Constitution and of democracy. His answer to me was, I know it. That's the reason why I want to kill you or have you killed. Yikes. Keep in mind that this is all just a prelude to Joseph and other members of the First Presidency being thrown into Liberty Jail, where they're going to spend five miserable months being deprived of their constitutional rights and privileges.
- [36:27]
B
And we've talked extensively in past episodes about what Liberty Jail was like. It was not a pleasant place to be, and this was probably the most trying time of Joseph's life so far. But despite his internment in Liberty Jail, it seems like Joseph's faith in the Constitution was not deterred. He still believed that the federal government would intervene on the saint's behalf and if they just knew all the facts. In fact, it was while he was in Liberty Jail that he wrote what is probably his most famous statement about the Constitution. This is in a letter from March 20, 1838, where he stated, the Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard. It is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner. It is to all those who are privileged with the sweets of liberty, like the cooling shades and refreshing waters of a great rock in a thirsty and weary land. It is like a great tree under whose branches men from every clime can be shielded from the burning rays of the sun. We say that God is true, that the Constitution of the United States is true, that the Bible is true, that the Book of Mormon is true, that the Book of Covenants is true, that Christ is true, that the ministering angels sent forth from God are true.
- [37:44]
A
He wrote that while he was a prisoner in Liberty Jail. And let me just add, I think it's pretty telling that Joseph bears his testimony of the Constitution right between his testimony of God and the Bible and the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, even Jesus Christ and the Angels of the Restoration. That's how it goes. God, Constitution, Bible, Book of Mormon. I don't think he's ranking them like that.
- [38:09]
B
I don't think he's given it in any particular order. But it is a big deal that that's all the same sentence.
- [38:14]
A
Basically, right while he's in this grimy Liberty Jail is slimy place where he is being literally having his rights taken from him and he's in there declaring his faith in the Constitution of the United States of America. Like that ought to add just a couple layers of emphasis on how he really feels. I don't think you can fake it when you've been in jail that long, like how you really feel about things. And there he was, right. But this wasn't the worst, Casey. Shortly thereafter, Joseph is going to have one of the most disenchanting experiences of his life relative to the US Government.
- [38:55]
B
Yeah, yeah. So let's lay down a little background for that. So in the letters that later become sections 121, 122 and 123 of the doctrine and Covenants, Joseph lays out a plan to collect. This is the wording from section 123. All the saints gathering up a knowledge of all the facts and sufferings and abuses put upon them by the people of the state, and also of all the property and amount of damages that they have sustained, both of character and personal injuries as well as real property. And on November 28, 1839, just a few months after settling at Nauvoo, Illinois, Joseph carries a letter to the United States Congress exercising his constitutional right to petition the federal government for redress from the Missouri persecutions. And he bases his claim on the rights that the latter day Saint settlers in Missouri should have been extended under Article 4, Section 2 of the US Constitution.
- [39:57]
A
Yeah. Joseph and a delegation of other church leaders actually travel to Washington D.C. to try and obtain help from the federal government. They carry this letter with them and they try to ask for help. Here's a quote from the letter. Your Constitution guarantees to every citizen, even the humblest, the enjoyment of life, liberty and property. It promises to all religious freedom the right to all to worship God beneath their own vine and fig tree according to the dictates of their conscience. It guarantees to all the citizens of the several states the right to become citizens of any one of the states and to enjoy all the rights and immunities of the citizens of the state of his adoption. Yet all of these rights have the Mormons been deprived. He said they have applied, which in this context means, like, appealed to the state of Missouri, the courts of Missouri, to federal courts. Right. So far, nothing.
- [40:55]
B
So far, nothing. And this is where one of the seminal moments of Joseph's life takes place. The day after they present this letter to the US Congress, they have a meeting with the American President at the time, who was Martin Van Buren. And after reading Joseph's letter of introduction, Van Buren responded, what can I do? I can do nothing for you. If I do anything, I shall come in contact with the whole state of Missouri. And during a second visit a few months later, he says effectively the same thing. Van Buren apparently told them, gentlemen, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you. And Joseph learned from this that the President saw himself as powerless in the face of states rights. Van Buren was a Whig, just to give some background here, and he was an advocate of states rights who consistently opposed any extension of federal power. So now he's bumping up against the limits of the humans who have to interpret and enforce the Constitution.
- [41:58]
A
Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you. Like, I always just want to say, sir, you are the President of the United States. Which to me, in my context, I think federal government, big, but in his context, state rights were much bigger. Right? In his context, like, I do think he probably could have done something, but in his context, like, state rights were much stronger than they are now, and the federal government was much smaller. And so he at least had an argument there. Right.
- [42:29]
B
We could go off on Van Buren for, like an hour. He was sort of known as, like, the politician's politician, and some people even called him the little wizard because he was so good at, like, working the system. Now he. He is, like, humiliated at the end of his presidency, and he's not generally well thought of among our presidents. But this is Van Buren being Van Buren, like, basically saying, well, what's the advantage for me? You know, if I do this, the whole state of Missouri is going to get mad at me. So I'm not really going to help out this strange religious group, though he flat out just says, your cause is just, yeah, you guys are right, but I'm just not going to do anything about it. Which must have been incredibly disconcerting for Joseph Smith.
- [43:11]
A
Infuriating. Right? And it's difficult to overstate how much of an effect this meeting with Van Buren has on Joseph Smith's view of the government. It's going to leave ripple effects through the remainder of his life. It also plays a big role in Joseph's decision later on to run for President of the United States in 1844, something we're going to talk about later in this series, because he just felt like the politicians in Washington weren't living up to the principles or the promises of the Constitution. So, I mean, it might be more correct to say that he never lost faith in the Constitution, but he also saw that the laws were ineffectual unless the leaders who were elected to carry them out actually had the moral fiber to do so. Right.
- [44:01]
B
Yeah. I mean, Joseph still believes that the Constitution was good. In fact, the next major mention he makes of it in a public setting was in a speech to the Relief society given on March 30, 1842, where Joseph taught the women of the newly formed society. He said, we must observe the Constitution that the blessings of heaven may rest down upon us. All must act in concert or nothing can be done. It sounds here like Joseph still believes that the principles in the Constitution are true and would bring prosperity if people followed them.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah, but it's also clear that his views on government had evolved because of his experiences. Like, he's going to give a more complicated take on his feelings about the Constitution about a year so later, October 1843, where he preaches a sermon on Sunday at the stand east of the unfinished temple in Nauvoo. If you could picture it, he stood up and he spoke to the saints about the limitations of that he saw in the Constitution. Here's what he it is one of the first principles of my life and one that I have cultivated from my childhood, having been taught it by my father, who allow everyone the liberty of conscience. I am the greatest advocate of the Constitution of the United States there is on the earth. In my feelings, I am always ready to die for the protection of the weak and the oppressed in their just rights. The only fault I find with the Constitution is it's not broad enough to cover the whole ground.
- [45:35]
B
Yeah. So he is introducing, like, some criticism, some dissatisfaction. He gets more specific in the same address about his issues with the Constitution. So he continues, although it provides that all men shall enjoy religious freedom, yet it does not provide the manner by which that freedom can be preserved and nor for the punishment of government officers who refuse to protect the people in their religious rights or punish those mobs, states, or communities who interfere with the rights of the people on account of their religion. Its sentiments are good, but it provides no means of enforcing them. It has but this one fault. Under its provision, a man or a people who are able to protect themselves can get along well enough, but those who have the misfortune to be weak or unpopular are left to the merciless rage of popular fury. So here's Joseph Smith basically saying, I have some issues not with the principles in the Constitution, but the means it provides for those principles to be protected when they run into trouble.
- [46:46]
A
Yeah, and you can kind of see the wills turning in his mind here. That's going to lead to his decision to run for President of the United States, which He reaches just a few weeks later in January of 1844. And he's not subtle about his dissatisfaction with the men who are supposed to be the stewards over the Constitution. He said this. The Constitution should contain a provision that every officer of the government who should neglect or refuse to extend the protection guaranteed in the Constitution should be subject to capital punishment. Yeah, he says, and then the President, President of the United States would not say, oh, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you. He totally just quoted Van Buren there. A governor issue exterminating orders or judges who say the men ought to have the protection of law, but it won't please the mob. The men must die anyhow to satisfy the clamor of the rabble. They must be hung or Missouri be damned to all eternity, etc. He said executive writs could be issued when they ought to be and not be made instruments of cruelty to oppress the innocent and persecute men whose religion is unpopular. So he is just pulling out the laundry. Right? Everything that he had experienced, all the ironies of living in this constitutionally protected land, freedom of religion, and how he had not experienced that with his people in such egregious violations of their rights.
- [48:15]
B
And it also seems that during this time Joseph became very familiar with the provisions of the Constitution. He writes a letter to the famous Senator John C. Calhoun. This is a guy who's a big advocate of states rights, especially slavery. I'm going to add here saying that Joseph felt that the powers of the executive and legislative branches of the federal government had been too restricted by the states. And when Calhoun writes back that the kind of relief the saints had requested goes beyond the scope of the powers of the federal government, Joseph replies with his own sharp reading of the Constitution. Here's what he wrote. I would admonish you to read the 8th section and the first article of the Constitution of the United States. The 1st, 14th and 17th specific and not very limited powers of the federal government. What can be done to protect the lives, property and rights of a virtuous people when the administrators of the law and lawmakers are unbought by bribes and God, he really gets animated. And God, who cooled the heat of Nebuchadnezzar's furnace or shut the mouths of lions for the honor of a Daniel, will raise your mind above the narrow notion that the general government has no power to the sublime idea that Congress, with the president as executor, is as almighty in its sphere as Jehovah is in his like Boom.
- [49:48]
A
So, so Tell us how you really feel, Joseph. How do you. How do you really feel about this?
- [49:52]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [49:53]
A
And I think he shows, like, how, how well acquainted he was with the. Even, like the. The nitty gritties of the Constitution there. Right?
- [49:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. And we're, we're quoting from Jack Welsh's article. And by the way, the footnote to this particular quote is almost as long as it's almost the whole page that follows. And we're not going to get into an extensive explanation of what all those particular provisions of the. Of Joseph's letter write. But for our purposes, what it's proving is that he was really frustrated by the way the federal government was handling things. But when he feels this frustration, he doesn't run away from the Constitution. Instead, he goes deeper. And if you think he was just using this law to gain the advantage for church members, he also made clear that what he was really worried about was what had happened to the saints in Missouri could happen to other religious minorities in America. When he's formally nominated for President in 1844, he makes this public statement. He said, if I should be elected, I would strive to administer the government according to the Constitution and the laws of the Union. And that as they, meaning the laws of the Constitution and the Union make no distinction between citizens of different religious creeds, I should make none. So I'm going to do what the Constitution says. I'm going to treat everybody fairly, regardless of what their religious background is. And then he went on and said, as far as it depends on the executive department, meaning the Presidency, all should have the full benefit of both, and none should be exempt from their operation. So basically, he's saying the executive, the President of the United States should be making sure that everybody is treated fairly. That someone like Martin Van Buren shouldn't be saying, I can't do anything for you because I don't want to tick off the state of Missouri. It's his job to intervene and say, what you're doing is wrong, Missouri. You're discriminating based on a person's religion. I'm going to intervene and make sure that that doesn't happen.
- [51:47]
A
And then in a campaign speech that he gives on February 8, 1844, Joseph stresses again that the reason he was running for president was because he felt like the principles of the Constitution were not being upheld. He said, I would not have suffered my name to have been used by my friends on any wise as President of the United States or candidate for that office if I and my friends could have had the privilege of enjoying our religious and civil rights as American citizens, even those rights which the Constitution guarantees unto all her citizens alike. But this as a people, we have been denied from the beginning. So if no one else is going to do this, I guess I'll try to rise up and I'll put my name in for our President of the United States and see if I can help.
- [52:36]
B
Yeah. And remember, this speech is given just a few months before Joseph Smith goes to Carthage Jail. So he's in the final act of his life. And his language in these addresses seems to indicate that that he knew how dangerous it might be to challenge the status quo in the United States. But he felt strongly that he needed to protect the principles of the Constitution, even if it meant sacrificing his life. So here's the second part of that same speech. He said, persecution has rolled upon our heads from time to time from portions of the United States like peals of thunder, because of our religion. And no portion of the government as yet has stepped forward for our relief. And in view of these things, I feel it be my right and privilege to obtain what influence and power I can lawfully in the United States for the protection of injured innocents. And if I lose my life in a good cause, I am willing to be sacrificed on the altar of virtue, righteousness and truth in maintaining the laws and Constitution of the United States, if need be, for the general good of mankind. So again, I'm willing to lay down my life to uphold the Constitution. And what's the reason why? Not just for the general good of the United States, but for the general good of mankind. That if nobody's going to stand up for these principles, people will just roll over them everywhere. And the principles that the United States Constitution espouses will never fully be established anywhere in the world.
- [54:06]
A
And we should point out too, that it was during this time when Joseph Smith was running for president that he made one of the controversial moves of his prophetic career. Beginning in March 1844, he instituted a new council in the church called the council of 50. Now, we've spoken about this a little bit several times on the podcast, Casey, but maybe a quick refresher is in order. Remember that the first of all, there's no Council of 50 in the Church today. Right? That's why it strikes our ears a little bit odd to hear council of 50. But Joseph organized it in order. One of the reasons was to help promote his presidential career. There were other reasons, too, about finding a place for the saints out west. Other things that after Joseph's death, it continues under Brigham Young's direction. It eventually stopped meeting once the challenges of the Exodus west took center stage. It was briefly revived during John Taylor's presidency, but then faded away again when the legal persecutions linked to plural marriage became too intense to hold regular meetings. And like we said in 2015, we got those minutes published on the church's Joseph Smith Papers website. So that maybe leads to the final question of this episode today, Casey, and that is, what do The Council of 50 Minutes say about the Constitution when they're right in the thick of this?
- [55:28]
B
We wanted to add this in because Jack Welch's article, which we've been quoting extensively from, came out in 2014. The. The Council of 50 minutes were published the year after, and so he didn't have access to those when he was writing his article. And we thought this was a nice kind of coda. So The Council of 50 is involved in the story because it was presented in a nutshell as the civil government of the Kingdom of God. In the Council, the leaders often talked about a concept that they called theo democracy. This is where the people still choose their leaders, but also give their first loyalty to God. And it's a valid question to ask, does this mean that in the final weeks of his life, Joseph Smith was moving away from the Constitution?
- [56:14]
A
And the answer is no. All right? Not in the least. In fact, The Council of 50 Minutes show that they spent quite a bit of time discussing the Constitution, actually. And according to the minutes, what Joseph said in private largely matches what he was saying in public. For instance, in a meeting held on March 10, 1844, Joseph was quoted in the minutes as saying, there is only two or three things lacking in the Constitution of the United States. If they had said, all men are born equal, and not only that, but they shall have their rights, they shall be free, or the armies of the government should be compelled to enforce those principles of liberty. And the president or governor, who does not do this and who does not enforce those principles, and he shall lose his head. There it is again.
- [57:01]
B
Joseph is. He's fiery here. Yeah.
- [57:04]
A
I mean, capital punishment, no question. If they don't enforce that, then they should be not just kicked out of office, but kicked out of life. Okay. When a. When a man is thus bound by a Constitution, he cannot refuse to protect his subjects, he dare not do it. Close quote.
- [57:24]
B
So do your job essentially, or off with your head. This seems to be the thing he's going for there, that if the Constitution is going to state that all men are created equal, then it needs to come up with a way to enforce that when people are oppressed. So the other obvious question that comes up when someone finds out about the council of 50 minutes and that they were meant to be the seed that would grow into the government of God after a return of Jesus Christ is if the rights and privileges in the Constitution would still have a place in that that kingdom. And the Council minutes seem to indicate that rather than going away in the millennium, the principles of the Constitution will finally have a chance to really flourish. Here's what Joseph Smith said in the Minutes. He states, God cannot save or damn a man only on the principle that every man acts, chooses and worships for himself. Hence the importance of, of thrusting from us every spirit of bigotry and intolerance towards a man's religious sentiments, that spirit which has drenched the earth with blood. When a man feels the least temptation to such intolerance, he ought to spurn it from him. It becomes our duty on account of this intolerance and corruption, the inalienable right of man being to think as he pleases, worship as he pleases, being the first law of everything that is sacred, and to guard every ground, all the days of our lives. So there's a picture into the Millennial Kingdom and the Constitution. Scott.
- [58:58]
A
Yeah, Joseph is bullish about religious freedom. Like, seriously, seriously, let's, let's let people worship however they want, guard it, guard that freedom. That's powerful. He also believed that the rule of Jesus Christ, when he comes again in the second Coming and establishes his kingdom on earth, would finally be able to protect the rights and liberties of all people, something that the earthly governments that he experienced just hadn't been able to accomplish. So while we don't know exactly how earthly governments are going to fit into the Millennial Kingdom, the Scriptures are a little opaque there. We do know that the principles of the Constitution which belong to all mankind, were established by Christ, will finally allow for human flourishing during the time when Christ's kingdom is fully established. Somehow, someway, at least, this was the belief burning in the bosom of the prophet Joseph Smith.
- [59:57]
B
Yeah. Now we should point out that the council of 50 only met for a few months before Joseph Smith's death. But the last days and moments of his life show that he was still committed to the principles of the Constitution. For instance, on June 22, 1844, this is just five days before his death, Joseph Smith writes to the Governor of Illinois, Thomas Ford. He writes, I am ever ready to conform to and support the laws and Constitution, even at the expense of my life, I have never in the least offered any resistance to law or lawful process, which is a well known fact to the general public.
- [60:34]
A
And then in response to this explosive situation, Governor Ford accuses Nauvoo magistrates of, quote, having committed a gross outrage upon the laws and liberties of the people. And the situation, in a super short nutshell, is the enemies of Joseph had laid a trap to try to get him arrested. They published a provocative press with all kinds of slanderous stuff in there, and Joseph and the city council had taken action to suppress that press. Right. And so that's the situation that is being talked about here. And so Joseph actually calls for martial law in Nauvoo, as he was the mayor at the time. And then he submits to arrest warrants that have been issued regarding the destruction of that press called the Nauvoo Expositor. And so the governor's kind of calling him out on that. And so here's a part of Joseph's response to the governor's accusations. He said, quote, as to martial law, we truly say that we were obliged to call out the forces to protect our lives, and the Constitution guarantees to every man that privilege. And our measures were active and efficient as the necessity of the case required. But the city is, and has been continually under the special direction of the Marshal all the time. No person, to our knowledge, has been arrested only for violation of the peace. And though some of our own citizens, all of whom we believe, are now discharged, and if any property has been taken for public benefit without a compensation or against the will of the owner, it has been done without our knowledge or consent, and when shown, shall be corrected if the people will permit us to resume our usual labors. The Constitution also provides that the people shall be protected against all unreasonable search and seizure. That doctrine we believe most fully and have acted upon it. He says, close quote.
- [62:27]
B
It sounds like in this letter, he's basically saying, like, we're acting constitutionally, and he's citing specific parts of the Constitution, like in parentheses, Amendment 2 appears and things like that, where he's pointing it
- [62:39]
A
out specifically and we haven't done it. Contextual justice, Right. Like the leaders of Nauvoo, and Joseph, as mayor, felt like another Missouri persecution was about to break upon their heads, that they were going to get kicked out of Nauvoo. Right. And so. And so this is partly why they're. They're reacting the way that they were reacting to the threats that were literally coming their way, like death threats and threats of Missouri persecutions happening all over again. So that's the context.
- [63:07]
B
Yeah, but he's not acting as a law unto himself. He's saying, we're doing this. And this is where in the Constitution it's legal to do what we're doing also. So it's clear that he upheld the Constitution and he believed in its principles for himself and for all people. In fact, on June 26, 1844, the day before he's murdered, in one of his last conversations, he tells Governor Ford, if there is trouble in the country, neither I nor my people made it. And all that we have ever done, after much endurance on our part, is to maintain and uphold the Constitution and institutions of our country and to protect an injured, innocent and persecuted people against misrule and mob violence. So day before he dies, he says, we're just trying to uphold the Constitution and use it to protect people from mob violence.
- [64:00]
A
Joseph Smith's views on the Constitution seem to align remarkably well with the brief statements made in the Revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. And I suppose that's not a surprise since Joseph was the Revelator involved. The Constitution isn't perfect, and the Doctrine and Covenants points that out in section 101. And Joseph Smith points that out. Right. And the people who have been asked to uphold the Constitution are flawed human beings, even the best of them. But it is something worth fighting for still. But the Constitution is something worth fighting for still, and it points the way toward a brighter future. The rights and privileges in the Constitution that align with just and holy principles do provide a vision for the kind of world we're trying to help build with the assistance from God, from our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. This seems to be what was beating in the. In the heart of Joseph Smith. That's what we see in the Revelations. Like, I don't think you can make a case against what we've said in terms of how Joseph felt about the Constitution. Casey.
- [65:11]
B
Yeah, yeah. And during the next few weeks, as we reflect on the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, we hope you'll take the time to reflect on the importance of the principles in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. This is something that President Oaks has admonished us to do. This is another excerpt from that talk we've been referencing this entire time. He said this. We should learn and advocate the inspired principles of the Constitution. We should seek out and support wise and good persons who will support those principles in their public actions. We should be knowledgeable citizens who are active in making our influence felt in civic affairs.
- [65:57]
A
So it's also appropriate here that we take a good look at the Constitution. Right. I think that's what we're being invited to do. Look carefully and how it was written and what influences of man may have crept in as well. Right. The Constitution was always intended to be a living document that would grow and change. That's baked into its own language. Right. It can be changed. It can be amended, and we've seen it happen lots of times in our history. And as members of the church who are living in democracies throughout the world, I think it's healthy for us to have some vigorous discussions about what is working and maybe what's not, and how we can use these principles to make life better for everyone everywhere.
- [66:40]
B
Yeah. Thank you. And let me emphasize another line from President Oaks. He said we should be knowledgeable citizens who are active in making our influence felt in civil affairs. So find out what that means for you. Maybe you want to run for public office, or maybe you just need to make sure you remember to register to vote. There are a lot of different ways that you can contribute. But also keep in mind that we're not just supposed to wait around for the millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ to come. We're supposed to be partners with him when we're supposed to be building it right now. Understanding the Constitution, the laws, and the rights that God says he put into the Constitution are important part of us being active participants in that process.
- [67:29]
A
Amen.
- [67:30]
B
Amen.
- [67:31]
A
Thank you, Casey.
- [67:32]
B
All right.
- [67:33]
A
Well, that was fun.
- [67:34]
B
Yeah. And in a couple weeks, we will pick up this thread again when we talk about Joseph Smith's presidential campaign. So this was just, you know, whetting your appetite. And also it was good for us because we have to teach this, both of us, to review these materials as well. So we hope that you have a great discussion on this and that it's a discussion that leads to further conversations with people that you care about about why the Constitution matters and what the Lord has had to say about it through his voice and through the voice of his prophet.
- [68:08]
A
Great to be with you, Casey. Thank you, man.
- [68:10]
B
Good to be with you. See you next,
- [68:21]
A
Sam.