What if the very thing you’re trying hardest to hide is the doorway to healing?

In this Circle of Chairs Conversation, I sit down with author and pastor John Ortberg to explore the surprising connection between spiritual formation and recovery. Drawing from his book Steps: Transforming Your Life When Willpower Isn’t Enough, Ortberg reflects on why change is so difficult—and why the path forward often begins not with strength, but with honest weakness.

Together, they discuss how the wisdom of the 12 Steps has shaped recovery communities for decades—and why the church may have more to learn from those basement meetings than it realizes. From stories of vulnerability to practical reflections on surrender, this conversation invites us to rethink what healing, faith, and transformation really look like.

If you’ve ever felt inadequate, stuck, or unsure of your next step, this episode is a gentle reminder: sometimes the end of our rope is exactly where new life begins.

0:00 — Welcome & Intro

3:35 — The sermon that changed everything
John tells the surprising story of fainting in the middle of a sermon—and how a visible weakness became a powerful spiritual lesson.

6:13 — “My strength is made perfect in weakness”
Why vulnerability can create deeper connection than strength ever could.

7:08 — What the church can learn from recovery
How the culture of confession and honesty in 12-step groups offers a prophetic example for the wider church.

11:11 — Recovery is about surrender, not just sobriety
Caroline and John discuss why recovery is about transformation of the whole life—not just abstaining from substances.

12:48 — What recovery communities can learn from the church
John explains how the 12 Steps grew from Christian discipleship traditions and why deeper spiritual formation matters.

19:49 — The power of telling your story
A moving example of how vulnerability in church can reveal how much everyone truly needs God.

22:38 — God’s address is at the end of your rope
A final encouragement for anyone feeling stuck, desperate, or unsure where to turn next.

https://www.johnortberg.com/

Steps: Transforming Your Life When Willpower Isn’t Enough (on Amazon)

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Caroline Beidler, MSW, is an author, speaker, and Managing Editor of Recovery.com, where she combines expert guidance with research to help people find the best path to healing and treatment. Her book, When You Love Someone in Recovery: A Hopeful Guide for Understanding Addiction, was released Spring 2026 with Nelson Books. Drawing from her own recovery journey through addiction, mental health challenges, and trauma, along with training as a clinical mental health provider and addiction recovery expert, Caroline is passionate about guiding you into seasons of greater healing. Learn more about her books here.

Subscribe to her Circle of Chairs Substack community at carolinebeidler.substack.com