From Trauma To Testimony | Jabin Chavez | City Light Church

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: City Light Church Las Vegas | Jabin Chavez
Episode: From Trauma To Testimony | Jabin Chavez
Date: October 26, 2025
Host: Pastor Jabin Chavez

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Overview

This episode, "From Trauma To Testimony," is part of the "Built to Last" series at City Light Church. Pastor Jabin Chavez unpacks the story of the woman with the issue of blood from Mark 5, using it as a lens to discuss how trauma affects us and how encountering Jesus brings healing—not only physically, but emotionally and spiritually. The message is focused on moving from being defined by trauma to sharing a testimony of freedom, with a strong call for listeners to invite God into every part of their healing journey.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality and Impact of Trauma

• Scriptural Foundation: Mark 5:25 — The story of the woman suffering for 12 years is used as a metaphor for long-term trauma.

  "All unresolved trauma will manifest. ... It is directly affecting every relationship in our life." (Lead Pastor, 00:00)

• Beyond the Physical: The woman's pain was not just physical, but emotional, relational, and spiritual due to cultural and religious isolation.
  • Under Jewish law, her condition rendered her "unclean," excluding her from community and temple life.
  • Common belief wrongly linked sickness to personal sin and shame.

2. Jesus' Healing is Holistic

• Jesus doesn’t merely heal the woman physically; He affirms her identity, calling her “daughter,” and offers spiritual and emotional restoration.

  “Daughter, that’s inclusive family language. That’s salvation language. That’s covenant language.” (Lead Pastor, 00:57) “Your faith has made you well. Go in peace.” (Lead Pastor, 01:13)

• The encounter signifies complete transformation—not just momentary relief.

3. Understanding and Responding to Trauma

• Definition: Trauma is an overwhelming emotional response to distressing events, often with lasting effects that can cause unrelated triggers if unresolved.

  “…all kinds of other things can start triggering you that aren’t even connected to the initial point of pain. That is why it is so important to get healed.” (Lead Pastor, 05:44)

• Denial and Misidentification:
  • Some minimize their trauma, seeing it as simply their 'personality' or strength.

    “We’ve learned how to function with our trauma for so long that it’s actually become an accessory.” (Lead Pastor, 08:04)

  • Others feel their trauma is too great to bring to God, believing He is angry or they are beyond help.
• Universal Relevance: Everyone has a past; the key is whether it’s a testimony or still a trauma.

  “Every saint has a past. Every sinner has a future.” (Lead Pastor, 11:03)

4. Moving from Trauma to Testimony

Pastor Jabin gives three practical steps:

a. Change Your Conversation (Hearing and Speaking)

• The woman “heard about Jesus,” shifting what she was listening to after years of negative self-talk and external condemnation.

  "She began to hear good news. Don’t underestimate the power of good news.” (Assistant Pastor, 13:27)

• Our faith is built not by trying harder, but by repeatedly hearing good news and the gospel message.

  “Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing...” (Lead Pastor, 14:56)

• What we focus on and listen to shapes our words, beliefs, and ultimately, our lives.

  “If you don’t like your words, change what you’re listening to.” (Lead Pastor, 18:04)

b. Change Your Source (Where You Seek Healing)

• Human help (doctors, counselors, friends) is good but not sufficient; only God can heal completely.

  “In all of your healing… don’t ignore the Holy Spirit’s role.” (Lead Pastor, 19:56)

• Invite God first, rather than as a last resort.

  "Make God your first response, not your last resort." (Lead Pastor, 20:55)

• God desires to heal us entirely—spirit, soul, and body (referencing 1 Thessalonians 5:23).

c. Change Your Position (Reaching Out Again)

• Trauma can make us closed off, self-protective, and reluctant to reach towards God.

  “When you’re carrying trauma, it’s hard to reach.” (Lead Pastor, 25:31)

• Practical encouragement to literally and figuratively “reach out” to God again, even after disappointment or long estrangement.

  “I’m asking some of you… reach out again.” (Lead Pastor, 25:44)
  “She reached out. And when she reached out, she got healed.” (Lead Pastor, 28:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jesus' Response:

  “He could have just let power go out from him... But instead, he decided to teach something that could set all of us free.” (Lead Pastor, 04:43)

• On Faith and Hearing:

  “Faith is not produced in trying. Faith is birthed in hearing.” (Lead Pastor, 16:20) “Reading your Bible does not change God's view of you. ... This changes your view of God.” (Lead Pastor, 16:54)

• On Community and Testimony:

  “Most people never go from trauma to testimony because they never give this to God and they believe the lie of the devil, that you have to carry this forever.” (Lead Pastor, 11:24)

• On the Power of Grace:

  “Under this new covenant called grace, the clean is stronger than the unclean.” (Assistant Pastor, 28:55) “The very fact that you are bleeding is the very reason you need him. This is Grace. This is good news.” (Lead Pastor, 32:09)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00: Setting up the theme, Mark 5 reading, and discussion of the woman’s trauma
• 06:28: Inclusive blessing: “Daughter, your faith has made you well.”
• 10:41: “This is too big for you, but it’s not too big for God…”
• 11:03: Past vs. testimony—“Every saint has a past…”
• 13:27: The power of hearing good news
• 14:56: Faith comes by hearing; the role of regular church community
• 19:56: Change your source—Holy Spirit’s role in healing
• 20:55: God as first response, not last resort
• 25:31: Change your position—reach out again
• 28:55: Grace makes the unclean clean
• 32:09: The message of grace; everyone is welcome, no matter their story

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Conclusion

In a message filled with hope and practical steps, Pastor Jabin Chavez emphasizes that trauma—regardless of how big or small, recent or longstanding—does not have to define our lives. By changing what we hear, where we turn, and finding the courage to reach out again, we can experience the transforming power of Jesus and move from trauma to testimony. The central theme is grace: There’s no wound too deep, shame too great, or history too broken for Jesus to redeem.

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For Further Information:
Visit citylightvegas.com for more resources and upcoming messages from City Light Church.

Transcript

[Lead Pastor]

We are in a series entitled Built to Last. And today I want to help you with your trauma. I want to help you with your baggage. I want to help you with the junk in your trunk. Because our trauma is directly affecting every relationship in our life, all unresolved trauma will manifest. So let's look at it from Mark, chapter 5, verse 25. A woman who had a hemorrhage for 12 years. She had been bleeding for 12 years and had endured much at the hands of many physicians and spent all she had. Yet she was not helped at all. But instead, she became worse after hearing about Jesus. She came up in the crowd behind him and touched his cloak. For she had been saying to herself, if I touch his garments, I will get well. And immediately the flow of blood was dried up, and she felt in her body she was healed of her disease. Now there is a physical healing that just happened. But now watch this. Immediately, Jesus, perceiving in himself that power had gone out from him, turned around to the crowd and said, who touched my garments? And his disciples said to him, you see this crowd pressing on you? And you say, who touched me? But he looked around and he saw the woman who had done this. Now, he had just healed her physically. But now watch this. He's going to heal her spiritually and emotionally. He said to the woman, because they all knew she was unclean. They all knew she had bled. They all knew her issues, because in the Jewish law, you would have had to declare yourself unclean. Watch this, he says to her, verse 34, daughter, that's inclusive family language. That's salvation language. That's covenant language. Whoo. Your faith. Now he's complimenting her. He's blessing her. He's saying. He's saying, you had a part in this, and I'm so proud of you. Your faith has made you well. Now he's going to heal her spiritually. Go in peace. He's now giving her the shalom of God. Nothing missing, nothing broken. You are cured of your disease. Today I want to talk about from trauma to testimony. Trauma to testimony. Elbow your neighbor. Would you do that? And tell them we are going from trauma to testimony. All right. That neighbor was so stuck up, we're going to find another person. First of all, apologize for not picking them. First apologize. And now say this. Say, hey, neighbor, we're going from trauma to testimony. Come on. If you believe that today, let's give God praise in the house of the Lord. Hey. So the story begins with a woman, as the scripture says, with an issue of blood she has been bleeding now for 12 years. Something that should have lasted a few days has now not just lasted days or weeks or months or even years, but now over a decade, 12 years of this issue. But it was beyond just a physical issue because under the Jewish law, anytime you were in your cycle, you were to declare yourself unclean. And so during that time, you would actually kind of remove yourself from society and remove yourself from the normal lifestyle. So this didn't happen, though, for two or three days. This is now happening for years. And so she's not just suffering physically, she's now suffering emotionally, she's suffering relationally, and she's even suffering spiritually because it was the belief of the day that if you were sick, it was because of some kind of sin in your life. That's not true. God never said that. But that's just how they thought in those days. So when we get to the story, there's so much pain, there's so much emotion, there's so much trauma that is being carried into this moment. And it is here that Jesus speaks to her and I believe says something way beyond just what meets the eye. It's not just the healing that happens, but it's a complete life transformation. Because he doesn't just heal her body, he heals her heart, and he heals her spirit, and he heals her soul. He addresses the trauma in her life. He could have just let power go out from him. He could have healed her, never looked back and kept on moving. But instead, he decided to teach something that could set all of us free. So he addresses trauma. Trauma is the emotional response to a distressing event that overwhelms a person's ability to cope, resulting in lasting physical or psychological harm. It can refer to the event itself, but may not be connected to the event itself. Meaning this. That when you get triggered, it's not just that what's happening to you reminds you of the thing that happened to you. This is big. I know it's 10am we just woke up, but listen, sometimes you're being triggered not by something that is similar to what hurts you, but because you never dealt with the initial trauma and never got healed of the initial trauma and never brought the initial trauma to Jesus. Now, what happens is all kinds of other things can start triggering you that aren't even connected to the initial point of pain. That is why it is so important to get healed. Or you will be traumatized and triggered by things that are not even connected anymore to the original source.

[Assistant Pastor]

So, see, I want you to notice this.

[Lead Pastor]

When Jesus heals her, he heals every part of her. He said this in Mark, chapter five.

[Assistant Pastor]

Daughter, your faith has made you well.

[Lead Pastor]

Go in peace. I want you to notice this. Daughter, this is inclusive language. This is family language. This is covenant language. This is, you've been an outcast, but now you're on the inside. You were far off, but now you're close. You were rejected, but now you're adopted. You were on the outside, but now your family, daughter.

[Assistant Pastor]

Your faith.

[Lead Pastor]

Now he compliments her, he goes, you had a part in this.

[Assistant Pastor]

And I'm so proud of the faith that you. That you re engaged your faith and.

[Lead Pastor]

It made you well. Go in peace. So ultimately, Jesus is the healer. We don't place our faith in our faith. We place our faith in the great physician. So when he calls their daughter, this is family. This is inclusive, this is restoration. Jesus heals the physical and the emotional, the personal and the relational, the seen and the unseen. This is the power of God, and he heals her. Trauma. We all got trauma. We all got stuff. And most of us never get healed of our trauma number one, because we believe the lie that it's actually just a part of our personality. It's cute. It's how we relate to people. We're isolated, but we call it independent. We gossip, but we call it humor. We tear other people down, but we call it processing. We cut people off, but we call it protection. And we've learned how to function with our trauma for so long that it's actually become an accessory. We'll actually tell ourselves it's like a part of our strength, when in reality it's keeping you so small and so stuck. So a lot of times people's trauma response is insecurity. It's worry, it's pride, it's cutting people off, it's gossip. Not realizing that's actually a trauma response. So here's what happens when you have small trauma. We never invite the Holy Spirit into it because we have told ourselves, this is who I am. And we've gotten so good at functioning with it. There's another reason that people don't deal with their trauma. It's because it's manifested in so much. You're like, I would love a little bit of gossip. I'm over here addicted to gambling. I'm a drug addict. I'm an alcoholic. I've got suicidal thoughts. I deal with hate and rage. And so the first group doesn't surrender their trauma to the Holy Spirit because they think it's too Small. And the second group doesn't surrender their trauma to the Holy Spirit because they think it's too big. The first group doesn't think it's an issue, and the second group thinks God's mad at them. But I've come with good news today. No matter where you're at in this equation, no matter where you're at in this story, no matter if you've just got a few little things that you have not dealt with or you've got massive trauma today that you're dealing with, you can bring all of it to God. You can surrender all of it to God. This is too heavy for you to carry, but it's not too heavy for God.

[Assistant Pastor]

This is too big for you, but it's not too big for God. This is too overwhelming for you, but it's not too overwhelming for God. God wants to get involved in your trauma, not intimidated by your issues. Let me just remind you, everybody in.

[Lead Pastor]

This room has a past.

[Assistant Pastor]

That's not the question.

[Lead Pastor]

Everybody does. Everybody does. That's not the question. Every saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Everyone has a past. That's not the question. The question is, when you look back on your past, is it a testimony or is it still trauma? Most people never go from trauma to testimony because they never give this to God and they believe the lie of the devil, that you have to carry this forever. You identify with it, and now you just think, this is a part of my story. But Jesus can set you free from trauma and triggers. Want to know how? Anybody, or should I just end now with bad news and just. Okay, okay, okay, okay. You're, like, good. Yeah. All right, well, here's the first way you have to change your conversation. You have to change your conversation. You have to change your conversation. Thank you. I appreciate the claps. She heard about Jesus. She started changing what she was listening to because all she heard for 12 years is, you're getting worse. All she heard for 12 years is, you'RE GROSS. All she heard for 12 Years is, you must have some kind of sin. All she heard for 12 years is, you don't have enough faith. All she heard for 12 years is, you're an outcast. All she heard for 12 years was, you're unclean. And now she's beginning to change her conversation, and she begins to listen to a new voice that can create a new cycle and a new loop in her mind that can bring new healing. You got to change your conversation. Hearing about Jesus. This. This phrase, hearing about Jesus in the Greek language means she heard the things that were surrounding Jesus. She started hearing the conversations that would occur when Jesus would show up, Jesus would show up into town. And you start hearing things like this. I'm healed.

[Assistant Pastor]

I can see. I can hear. My baby's alive. I've been forgiven. I can walk. I can talk. She began to hear good news. Don't underestimate the power of good news. Let me just say this.

[Lead Pastor]

Don't underestimate the power of a good news church. Don't underestimate the power of the gospel.

[Assistant Pastor]

Don't underestimate the power of somebody praying.

[Lead Pastor]

For you and telling you you're going to make it.

[Assistant Pastor]

Don't underestimate, underestimate the power of good news. I need good news. I got enough bad news out there. I came to church for some good news. Some of you want me to preach more bad news.

[Lead Pastor]

Sorry, you're not going to get it here. Some of you get real mad at.

[Assistant Pastor]

Me when I post a picture with my friend Joel Osteen Unfollow.

[Lead Pastor]

I didn't ask you to follow me. I like Joel. Cause I get in my head, I got a lot of this in my life. I got a lot of crap in my life. I got a lot of trauma in my life.

[Assistant Pastor]

So I like getting around Joel.

[Lead Pastor]

And he tells me, you can make it and you can do it.

[Assistant Pastor]

You are who God says you are. And I go, oh, my God, maybe I can. I'm not name dropping.

[Lead Pastor]

I'm really trying to offend somebody to.

[Assistant Pastor]

Shake you out of that bad news. I'm trying to get you into some good news. She starts hearing a new conversation.

[Lead Pastor]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing. Oh, that's why you got to be in church every time the doors are open. Because you never know when faith is going to hit your spirit. Let me say it like this. I could preach this sermon for the rest of the year, and at some point, it's gonna hit your spirit the right way. Dr. Oral Roberts said that. He said pastors must preach series. Because he said you have to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again until finally it hits somebody. So I could preach this sermon for the rest of the year. And for some of y', all, It'd be like, December 28th. And you'd come up to me and be like, man, that was the best sermon you've ever preached. And I'd be like, I've been preaching it four months, dog. By the way, that's why we bring in guest pastors, and that's why you should be excited every time we have a guest speaker. The reason is, is because they're going to say the same things I'm saying. They're just going to say it in a different way. That maybe your heart's going to be open to it. And you never know when your heart's going to be ready for the words. That's why you just keep showing up. Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing, hearing the word of God. See, faith is not produced in trying. Faith is birthed in hearing. You cannot manufacture faith. You receive faith as a gift by hearing. By the way, faith doesn't come by seeing. Well, if we saw more, we would have more faith. No, you wouldn't. Because faith doesn't come by seeing. Faith comes by hearing. Okay. Reading your Bible does not change God's view of you. One more time. Reading the Bible doesn't change God's view of you. You don't read the Bible and God goes, pssh, man, now I love you. So glad you're reading the Word. I was going to send you to hell. This doesn't change God's view of you. This changes your view of God. Can I get a witness? Right there. This thing unlocks faith in me.

[Assistant Pastor]

This is not ink on paper. This is something supernatural. And when you get the word of God in you, something begins to change on the inside. Ezekiel said. Ezekiel 2. 2. He spoke to me and his spirit entered me. There is an impartation that happens every.

[Lead Pastor]

Time you get in the word of God.

[Assistant Pastor]

That's why we want you reading the Bible. Not so that you can boast that you read the Bible. Not so that God will love you more. No. So that a new cycle, a new story and new beliefs can begin to touch your spirit.

[Lead Pastor]

By the way, here's what happens when you get in the Word. She heard about Jesus. What happened next? And she said, so your hearing affects your saying. She starts talking different. If I could just touch his clothes, if I could just touch the hem of his garment, if I could just reach out, I know I could be healed. So she changed what she heard and it automatically changed what she said. Matthew 12:34. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks a good man out of the good treasure brings forth good things. Or we could say it like this, says good things, because that's the context. An evil man out of the evil treasure says evil things, brings forth evil things. If you don't like your words, change what you're Listening to. If you don't like what you're saying and thinking, try to change what you're saying and thinking. Change what you're hearing. And when you change what you're hearing, it will begin to change your thoughts, and it will begin to change your words, which will change your life, change the conversation. Number two, change your source. Doctors could not help her. I'm not against doctors. Love doctors. God uses doctors. I love doctors. I love podcasts. I love therapists. I love therapy. I love counseling. I love counselors. I love a great talk with a godly friend that you can process with. I love all of that. But in all of your healing and in all of your transformation and in all of your seeking, don't ignore the Holy Spirit's role in your transformation. Amen. I'll wait on you. I'll let you. It's like a rainstorm. It's going to start. Okay. Okay. It's going to hit the whole. It's like a wave. It's going to hit. After 12 years of trying everything else, she sought Jesus. Let me just. Let me just say, I think for a lot of people, like, there's a lot of people here, because God is your last resort. You tried everything else. It's like, man, marriage still isn't working. Money still isn't working. Kids still aren't working. Life still isn't working. It's like, man, we should try. Let's try church. And I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. Now that you're here, don't let him be your last resort. Make God your first response, not your last resort. So doctors, yes, Counselors, yes. Podcasts, yes. Good friends, yes. Counsel all of that. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But start with the Holy Spirit and invite the Holy Spirit into your healing journey. Then see where that takes you. Does that make sense? First Thessalonians 5. 23. Here's what I really want to say to you. I want you to understand that God is committed to your entire life. For a lot of you, God is the God box that you tick off on Sundays. Or he's your 911 call in an emergency, asking you to invite God into every part of your life. Now, may the God of peace, that's who God is. He's the God of Peace himself, sanctify you. Just a fancy Bible word for make you look more like Jesus, help you fulfill your destiny, make you the person God called you to be. That's all sanctify means. It means growing up into.

[Assistant Pastor]

Who you.

[Lead Pastor]

Can be in Christ. Okay? That's all that means completely. Now watch where he wants to sanctify you, mature you, heal you, help you, transform you. Where does he want to do it? Spirit, soul and body. So let's talk about these very quick. Everybody say this after me. Say, I am a spirit. I have a soul. I live in a body. All right, one more time. Let's. Let's get this in our heart one more time. Say, I am a spirit. I have a soul. I live in a body. Okay? So I am made in the image of God, right? And here's what God did. God created this dirt suit out of the dust of the earth, but he was dead because the body without the spirit, James said, is dead. So the body was just the body. And then God went and breathed his life. And Adam became a living soul or a living spirit. Adam became alive. So the Bible says, absent from the body, to be present with the Lord. When you die, you don't really die. Your earth suit dies. Your spirit goes to heaven. So when you die, you don't really die. You change addresses. Hallelujah. Praise God. If you've lost a loved one who followed Jesus, I just want you to know this. They've never been more alive. They've never been happier. We grieve, but they don't grieve, I promise you, because they've received their reward. Okay, so I'm a spirit. I have a soul, though. See? And here's what we do. We go, okay, I got to read the Word and I got to pray. I got to read the Word and I got to pray. I got to read the Word and I got to pray, and I got to go to church. And we've boiled down Christianity to, you got to read the Bible and you got to pray and you got to go to church. But you're also. But you have a soul. You have a mind, will, and emotions. And I know a lot of spiritually alive people who are crazy. Hello? Anybody? Don't look at your neighbor. Some of you are like, no, I don't. You're them. You're like, everybody I know is normal. I know, but we're judging you. Listen, because you have a mind, will, and emotions. Here's what I want to say. We think we've got to go fix that outside of God. I'm asking you to invite God in your mind, will, and emotions, into your temperament, into your thinking. Love the Lord, your God, with all your mind. Think about that mind. He's inviting you into the Emotional into your. Love him with your soul, love him with your heart. Think about that. And he's interested even in your body. Healing your body, strengthening your body, the health of your body, the life of your body. All I'm trying to get into you right now is that when Jesus healed her, he healed every part of her. He healed her body, but he healed her soul. But he healed her spirit. He called her daughter. That was the healing of her soul. He healed her body. That was the healing of her body. And then he gave her peace. That was the healing of her spirit. Salvation. And I'm just asking you to invite God into any area of your life that does not look like Jesus. You can invite him into your life.

[Assistant Pastor]

And God will use all of that.

[Lead Pastor]

For your good and his glory. So I got to change my source. God first. God first. God first. Lastly, may have the team come. Change your position. Change your position. She reached out. That's all I want to get out to you today. She reached. Watch. Because when you're carrying trauma, it's hard to reach. When you're carrying the weight of this world, when you're carrying all that stuff from your past, it is hard to reach out to heaven. And let me tell you what this looks like. Very practically, it looks like this. I'm closed. I'm protective. I'm small. I'm asking you to reach again. I'm asking some of you who have not reached out to heaven in a long time, reach out again. We were in worship and we asked you to lift your hands and you're going, I can't. And I'm asking you to reach out again. I'm asking. You prayed and it didn't work the way you thought it was going to work. Reach out again. You thought life was going to go this way and it went that way. Reach out again. You were convinced you heard from God, but it didn't work out. Reach out again. I want to encourage some of you are here today. You have not been in church in months or even years. You gave up on the church, you gave up on religion, you gave up on the gathering. And yet something drew you back here. And you have been hurt by the church and you've been hurt by pastors. And I'm so grateful. You pressed through the crowd and the noise, you got back in the house of God. And I believe today, as you reach out to heaven, I believe healing is going to flow into your life. She reached out. And when she reached out, she got healed. She was unclean. According to the law of Moses, she was ceremonially unclean. And if you were unclean with either your cycle or certain kinds of sickness that had open sores or leprosy, things like that, if you were. If you were ceremonially unclean and you touched the priest, the priest became unclean. And the priest had to go into a cleansing ritual. If you were to go into the temple or into the tabernacle and touch the. The furniture, that unclean would make the clean furniture unclean. And they would have to cleanse the temple, because the unclean thing was stronger than the clean thing. But when this unclean woman touched the priest, Jesus didn't become unclean.

[Assistant Pastor]

She became clean. Because under this new covenant called grace, the clean is stronger than the unclean. And you might feel unclean today, and you might feel unqualified today, and you might feel broken today and addicted today and bound today. But if you would bring that unclean thing to the clean one. Oh, come on, stand up and give.

[Lead Pastor]

God the glory right now that he.

[Assistant Pastor]

Could turn it around.

[Lead Pastor]

While you're standing. While you're standing. I go to this. I go to this shop down on the Strip, and I do my shopping there. And there's a woman who always helps me. And this week, I walked in, Josh, you know her. And she looked at me. She goes, I know who you are. And I said, of course you do. I'm your client. She goes, no, I know who you are. All my friends go to your church. And I said.

[Assistant Pastor]

I said, why don't you come?

[Lead Pastor]

She said, I can't go to your church. If I went to your church, I'd destroy the building because God would strike it with lightning. Let me just tell you, she was kidding. That was all trauma. That was all trauma. And I said.

[Assistant Pastor]

You think God's gonna.

[Lead Pastor]

Destroy the building cause of you? You should see the people who go to our church.

[Assistant Pastor]

Alcoholics, drug addicts, gambling addicts, religious people who think they're better than other people come to our church. All kinds of messy people come to our church, but the unclean walks in, and we all reach out to the clean, and the clean does something on the inside. I said, you gotta come. She said.

[Lead Pastor]

She said. She said, I'll think about it. I said, well, I'll pray about it. She said, deal. Well, I'm not gonna tell you her name. Not right now, because we're streaming right now. So if you're watching, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch. See, that was just a trauma response. I can't go. Because somewhere in her life, religion taught her religious systems. Taught her. You're unqualified. You're disqualified. That because life made you bleed, you can't come to Jesus. And I'm going. The very fact that you are bleeding is the very reason you need him.

[Assistant Pastor]

This is Grace. This is good news.