In this episode of We Were in a Cult?, I sit down with Katja, who shares her experience of being introduced to the ICOC in Germany, not as someone born into it, but as someone searching. As a young mother trying to find her footing in life and faith, she was met in a moment where community, clarity, and certainty felt both needed and welcome.

What unfolds is an honest and thoughtful conversation about how environments like this can shape identity over time, how questions can quietly build beneath the surface, and what it takes to begin seeing things differently. Katja’s story is a powerful reminder that these experiences aren’t limited to one place or one kind of person, they’re often closer to home than we think.

If you are a member, were a member, or know someone who was a member of the ICOC or ICC and would like to share your story about life in and out of the church, I’d love to hear from you. Together, we can continue exploring the question, “We were in a cult?” and perhaps find some healing along the way. You can reach me via email at clemenzwithaz@gmail.com, or send me a DM on Instagram at the Clemenz With a Z podcast page.

If you want to support the podcast financially, you can head over to ClemenzWithAZ.com, there’s a merch store there with shirts, stickers, all kinds of stuff. You can also donate directly through the GoFundMe, the link’s in the show notes. Every bit goes a long way in helping me keep these conversations going.

And if you’re looking for something a little more regular, check out my Substack: Devotions for the Disillusioned & Deconstructing. That’s where I share short reflections, devotionals, and some extra behind-the-scenes thoughts that don’t always make it onto the podcast.

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This podcast keeps going because of listeners like you showing up, engaging, and passing it on. So thank you for being here, for listening, and for being part of this messy middle with me.

Until next time, take care of yourselves, and each other.