Click Here Podcast: Episode 196 - "2024: A Year of Living More Dangerously in Cyberspace"

Released: December 31, 2024

Introduction

In Episode 196 of Click Here, host Dina Temple-Raston delves into the escalating cyber threats that defined 2024. Featuring her insights from a special appearance on NPR's 1A, Dina explores the intensified cyber operations from global adversaries China and Russia. The episode also includes a comprehensive interview with human rights advocate Bill Browder, who discusses the geopolitical ramifications of cyber warfare and the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

1. Escalation of Chinese Cyber Operations

Timestamp: [01:50]

Dina Temple-Raston begins by highlighting the significant shift in Chinese cyber strategies. Unlike their traditional focus on espionage and intellectual property theft, Chinese state-backed hackers are now targeting critical infrastructure to advance geopolitical objectives.

• Strategic Hacking: Dina explains, “China has stepped up its cyber operations over the past year, focusing not just on espionage or stealing into intellectual property as they have in the past. Instead, they've started to hack more strategically to bolster their geopolitical goals” ([01:55]).

• Vol Typhoon Group: A notable example is the Chinese hacking group Vol Typhoon, which infiltrated various U.S. critical infrastructure sectors, including airport networks, water treatment facilities, and the electrical grid. Dina emphasizes the potential for these breaches to disrupt essential services in the event of future conflicts, such as a hypothetical invasion of Taiwan.

• Scale vs. Quality: Quoting former NSA Director General Paul Nakasone, Dina underscores the challenge posed by China’s vast pool of hackers: “China has a billion people, so lots of potential hackers to choose from. So they might not be the world's most skilled hackers, but there are lots and lots of them and they kind of flood the zone” ([06:03]).

2. Russian Cyber Activities and Ransomware

Timestamp: [06:20]

Transitioning to Russian cyber threats, Dina outlines the multifaceted cyber campaigns aimed at destabilizing other nations.

• Election Meddling: Recent events in Romania, where Russian interference led to the rerunning of elections, illustrate Russia's ongoing attempts to influence political outcomes abroad. Dina connects this to broader ransomware attacks targeting cities, hospitals, and insurance companies.

• Ransomware Groups: Dina discusses the infamous ransomware group Lockbit, detailing how international law enforcement efforts have significantly disrupted their operations. “Lockbit was responsible and had a hand in most of the ransomware attacks that we were hearing about against hospitals, insurance companies, et cetera” ([10:37]).

• Law Enforcement Successes: Highlighting successful operations, Dina notes, “The Dutch police have taken down a bunch of dark web markets that sell drugs and guns. Last month the Germans took down 47 illicit cryptocurrency exchanges that cyber criminals had been using” ([09:18]).

3. Enhanced Law Enforcement Measures

Timestamp: [10:37]

Looking ahead, Dina predicts a continued crackdown on cybercriminals in 2025.

• Disrupting the Supply Chain: “Ransomware used to be known as ransomware as a service. It was a one stop shop, right? You could get all these things together in one place. Now because of all this law enforcement in the past year, there's been a metastasis and it's much harder now to launch these kinds of attacks” ([10:37]).

• Focus on Infostealers: Law enforcement is now targeting infostealers—malware that steals credentials to access networks—and shuttering leak sites used by ransomware groups to extort victims.

4. Special Interview with Bill Browder: Supporting Ukraine Against Russian Aggression

Timestamp: [11:56]

The episode features an in-depth conversation with Bill Browder, a prominent human rights advocate and critic of Vladimir Putin's regime. Browder provides a sobering analysis of the ongoing war in Ukraine and the role of international support.

a. The Importance of Continued Support for Ukraine

Timestamp: [13:06]

Browder argues that sustained military and financial support is crucial for Ukraine's defense against Russian aggression. He warns against potential policy shifts under the incoming Trump administration that may reduce aid to Ukraine, leading to severe humanitarian and geopolitical consequences.

• Sanctioned Assets as a Resource: “Russia has caused a trillion dollars of damage to Ukraine. We have custody of their money. We could confiscate that money... and then give that money to Ukraine for their defense” ([16:04]).

• Challenges in Seizing Assets: Browder acknowledges the difficulty in coordinating multinational efforts to seize Russian assets, emphasizing the need for unified leadership to prevent financial disruptions.

b. Assessing Putin's Threats and Motivations

Timestamp: [19:05]

Browder addresses concerns about Putin's threats to use tactical nuclear weapons, asserting that such threats are bluffs aimed at generating appeasement.

• Nuclear Saber-Rattling: “Putin is what I call nuclear saber rattling. He's bluffing” ([21:34]).

• Peace Talks Viability: He doubts the effectiveness of peace talks unless Russia agrees to terms acceptable to Ukraine, predicting that without robust support, Ukraine may succumb to Russian forces.

c. The Broader Implications for NATO and Global Security

Timestamp: [37:46]

Browder discusses the potential long-term impacts on NATO if the U.S. reduces its support for Ukraine.

• Dependence on the U.S.: “NATO doesn't exist without the US. The US is the whole basis of NATO” ([37:46]).

• European Responsibility: He urges European nations to take more responsibility for their own defense to prevent over-reliance on American support.

d. Personal Commitment to Human Rights Advocacy

Timestamp: [29:43]

Reflecting on his personal journey, Browder shares the motivations driving his activism against Putin's regime, rooted in the tragic death of his lawyer Sergei Magnitsky.

• Unwavering Dedication: “I will continue this fight in spite of the risks” ([31:20]).

5. Future Outlook and Recommendations

Timestamp: [10:37]

Dina and Bill Browder conclude with recommendations for 2025, emphasizing the need for persistent law enforcement actions against cybercriminals and unwavering support for Ukraine to counteract Russian aggression.

• Continued Law Enforcement: Browder anticipates ongoing dismantling of cybercriminal networks, attributing success to coordinated international efforts.

• Sustained Support for Ukraine: He stresses that ensuring Ukraine has adequate resources is vital not only for its survival but for global security stability.

Conclusion

Episode 196 of Click Here offers a comprehensive exploration of the heightened cyber threats posed by China and Russia in 2024. Through Dina Temple-Raston's expert analysis and Bill Browder's passionate advocacy, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complex interplay between cyber warfare, international policy, and human rights. The episode underscores the imperative for continued vigilance and coordinated global action to safeguard digital and geopolitical landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

• “China has stepped up its cyber operations over the past year, focusing not just on espionage or stealing into intellectual property as they have in the past. Instead, they've started to hack more strategically to bolster their geopolitical goals.” — Dina Temple-Raston ([01:55])

• “China has a billion people, so lots of potential hackers to choose from. So they might not be the world's most skilled hackers, but there are lots and lots of them and they kind of flood the zone.” — General Paul Nakasone via Dina ([06:03])

• “Lockbit was responsible and had a hand in most of the ransomware attacks that we were hearing about against hospitals, insurance companies, et cetera.” — Dina Temple-Raston ([10:37])

• “Russia has caused a trillion dollars of damage to Ukraine. We have custody of their money. We could confiscate that money... and then give that money to Ukraine for their defense.” — Bill Browder ([16:04])

• “Putin is what I call nuclear saber rattling. He's bluffing.” — Bill Browder ([21:34])

• “NATO doesn't exist without the US. The US is the whole basis of NATO.” — Bill Browder ([37:46])

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