Podcast Summary: “AI and the Secret Lives of Whales”

Podcast: Click Here (Recorded Future News)
Host: Dina Temple-Raston
Date: January 13, 2026

Overview

This episode explores the intersection of artificial intelligence and marine biology, telling the remarkable story of Michelle Fournet—a whale researcher—and her collaboration with AI engineer Daniel Woodrich as they attempt to decode the language of humpback whales. The podcast delves into the history of whale conservation inspired by whale songs, the technical and ecological challenges of eavesdropping on whale conversations, and how advanced AI could not only bring us closer to understanding these majestic creatures, but also potentially spark a new cultural empathy and environmental stewardship.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Power of Listening: Michelle Fournet’s Journey

• Michelle Fournet’s origin story:
  • As a 20-something, she began working on a whale-watching boat in Alaska, despite never having seen a whale or been on a boat before.
  • The profound impact of listening to whales via hydrophone:

    "We would turn the boats off and drop a hydrophone in the water and sit out in sort of the pristine Alaskan ocean in perfect quiet. ...and we would listen to the whales." (Michelle Fournet, 00:36)

  • This experience transformed her perception, from hearing alien sounds to recognizing possible conversations between whales:

    "It's a little bit like listening to outer space, sort of listening into the void and getting all these signals back with no context for them." (Michelle Fournet, 01:06)

  • Sparked her quest: Could she build a "Google Translate" for whale communication?

    "I want to understand how they talk to each other." (Michelle Fournet, 01:51)

Historical Context: Whale Songs and Cultural Shifts

• The significance of the “Save the Whales” campaign, which was partly fueled by the first recordings of whale songs in the 1970s.
• The public’s ability to emotionally connect with whales through sound led to a global conservation movement and bans on commercial whaling.
• Fournet sees her work as a modern continuation—using technology to build even greater empathy and understanding.

The Cocktail Party Problem: Technical Barriers

• Challenge: The ocean is an audibly cluttered environment—whale songs are tangled with fish, shrimp, boats, and sonar.
• Researchers dubbed this the “cocktail party problem”—how to separate overlapping voices/sounds in a chaotic environment (Colin Cherry, 1950s):

  "If you have a bunch of people talking simultaneously, their voices are all overlapping, how do you tease out whose voice belongs to who?" (Michelle Fournet, 08:25)

• Fournet lacked the necessary technical expertise for audio separation, leading her to AI engineer Daniel Woodrich at NOAA.

AI to the Rescue: Daniel Woodrich’s Approach

• Woodrich likened the ocean soundscape to a raucous party:

  "Alaska and the Alaskan Arctic. It is like the ultimate cocktail party. It's like a cocktail party that starts with, like a polite little brunch... and then parties on until 2am.” (Daniel Woodrich, 09:57)

• He developed an AI model from scratch to parse the recordings, identifying and “stripping away” sounds from other sources (ice, seals, boats), isolating the pure whale signals:

  "I would look at a signal... come up with features... parameters... It's a frequency upsweep, kind of in this certain frequency range." (Daniel Woodrich, 10:50–11:14)

• This breakthrough allowed Fournet and the team to finally “listen” directly to clear whale communications and begin searching for meaning.

Decoding Whale Communication: From Noise to Meaning

• Now able to isolate whale calls, Fournet observed patterns and began to identify possible meanings:

  “When a whale makes a sound, it's trying to make something happen. Either I want you to know that I'm here, or I want you to come closer, or I want you to go away...” (Michelle Fournet, 12:28 & 16:46)

• Social calls: Greeting behaviors, relationship-building, “whale small talk”:

  "One whale announces its presence, another whale responds... they make these lovely little calls as they get closer together." (Michelle Fournet, 17:10)

• Hunting calls: Whales blow bubbles and produce specific noises to herd fish:

  "The whales use this sound to push the fish towards the surface of the water... at which point the whales open their mouths and devour the fish." (Michelle Fournet, 18:12)

Implications: Empathy, Conservation, and Learning from Whales

• Building a whale-to-human dictionary could:
  • Spur a new wave of empathy and conservation efforts.
  • Allow humans to understand whale distress, impacts of pollution, and changes in marine environments.
  • Use AI’s “scalpel-like precision” to detect new patterns or species, including signs of climate change.

    "AI allows you to explore with just, like, scalpel, like precision, like a new signal... maybe a new animal that is in these waters for the first time because of, you know, force like climate change." (Daniel Woodrich, 19:38)

• Fournet reflects on what humanity could learn from whale communication:

  "If we listened to each other the way that whales listen to each other, could that perhaps... sway human culture towards one that's more... compassionate or more cooperative...?" (Michelle Fournet, 19:57)

A Moment of Reflection

• When asked what she would say to a whale, Michelle replies:

  "Um, I'm sorry. That's what I would say... for all that we have put them through for the mass removal of whales from the ocean, for the noise that we inundate them with, for our deep misunderstanding...for changing their ocean." (Michelle Fournet, 20:37)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:36 | Michelle Fournet | “We would turn the boats off and drop a hydrophone in the water… and we would listen to the whales.” | | 01:06 | Michelle Fournet | “It's a little bit like listening to outer space, sort of listening into the void and getting all these signals back with no context for them.” | | 08:25 | Michelle Fournet | “If you have a bunch of people talking simultaneously, their voices are all overlapping, how do you tease out whose voice belongs to who?” | | 09:57 | Daniel Woodrich | "Alaska and the Alaskan Arctic. It is like the ultimate cocktail party... and then parties on until 2am." | | 10:50 | Daniel Woodrich | “I would look at a signal and I would say, how can I come up with features? … a frequency upsweep… in a certain frequency range.” | | 12:28 | Michelle Fournet | "When a whale makes a sound, it's trying to make something happen…" | | 19:38 | Daniel Woodrich | "AI allows you to explore with just the, like, scalpel-like precision..." | | 19:57 | Michelle Fournet | "If we listened to each other the way that whales listen to each other, could that perhaps...sway human culture towards one that's more, more compassionate or more cooperative...?" | | 20:37 | Michelle Fournet | "Um, I'm sorry. That's what I would say [to the whales]..." |

Important Segment Timestamps

• Michelle’s Origin Story & Listening to Whales: 00:02–01:39
• History of Whale Conservation & Whale Songs: 04:42–06:32
• The Cocktail Party Problem: 07:01–08:34
• AI-Enabling Whale Song Separation: 09:57–11:18
• Early Discoveries in Whale Communication: 12:28–18:25
• AI, Empathy, and Learning from Whales: 19:03–20:32
• Personal Reflection—“What Would You Say to a Whale?” 20:32–21:18

Tone and Storytelling Style

The episode employs an approachable, curious tone reminiscent of NPR investigative storytelling. It seamlessly bridges technical exploration (AI and audio engineering) with emotional and ethical reflection, inviting listeners not only to learn about scientific innovation, but also to consider its broader impact on culture, empathy, and the natural world.

Conclusion

“AI and the Secret Lives of Whales” illustrates how listening more deeply—both with technology and human curiosity—could unlock not only the mysteries of another species, but also inspire us to become better stewards of our planet. Through years of fieldwork, collaboration, and new digital tools, Michelle Fournet and Daniel Woodrich are building a bridge between species, one call at a time. Their pioneering work hints at a future where our relationship with nature is built on communication, mutual respect, and compassion.