Click Here – "Can AI Fix Its Own Energy Problem?"

Host: Dina Temple-Raston (Recorded Future News)
Guest: Stuart Clark (IT Professional)
Date: August 29, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode investigates the hidden environmental costs of our digital lives—specifically, the immense and often invisible carbon footprint of the Internet and AI. IT veteran Stuart Clark joins host Dina Temple-Raston to demystify how every click, swipe, and stream contributes to emissions, why big tech’s growth is straining global energy use, and crucially, how artificial intelligence—while a big part of the problem—might also offer surprising solutions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Stuart Clark: Unlikely Expert

• Stuart Clark, known for his long beard and soft hands, brings a relatable, everyman’s perspective. He shares his transition from two decades as a hairdresser into self-taught coder and engineer for top companies like Cisco, Amazon, and Spotify.
  • [00:20]
    QT: "I've been growing my beard now for about 17 years... it will touch my sort of like, belt buckle area now." – Stuart Clark

The Hidden Weight of the Internet

• The Internet is the "fourth largest polluter on earth," behind only China, the U.S., and India.
  • [01:00]
    QT: "If the Internet were a country, it would be the fourth largest polluter on earth." – Stuart Clark
• Growth is "unchecked" and ceaseless: Everything from fridges to toasters is online, multiplying energy demand in a way most people never consider.
• [03:24]
  QT: "Now your car is, now your television set is, even your toaster is." – Stuart Clark
• The digital world feels "weightless" but is powered by vast, energy-hungry data centers.
  • [03:47]
    QT: "The digital world, for us, we don't see that... it feels somewhat cleaner, if not weightless." – Stuart Clark

Making the Numbers Concrete

• Each Google search emits up to 0.2 grams of CO2, and every TikTok video streamed burns enough energy to power a light bulb for ten minutes.
  • [04:09]
    QT: "Every TikTok video that you watch would burn enough coal to power a light bulb for 10 minutes." – Stuart Clark
• Social media’s annual average carbon cost:
  • Instagram: 32.52 kg, YouTube: 40.1 kg CO2 per user—comparable to driving a gas car 100 miles.
  • [05:23]
    QT: "If you're a user on Instagram, their average is 32.52 and YouTube is 40.1 kilograms." – Stuart Clark

The "Invisible Toxic Cloud"

• Clark invokes a memorable metaphor for digital pollution.
  • [05:47]
    QT: "What I see behind people... is like a little bit of an invisible toxic cloud just following them around." – Stuart Clark
• Most users are oblivious to this footprint.
  • [06:10]
    QT: "I really, really don't think that they do. When you talk about this to people, they think... dystopian sci fi scene, but it really, really isn't." – Stuart Clark

The AI Arms Race & Opaque Data

• Artificial intelligence data centers are driving record-breaking energy demand, with Google’s emissions up nearly 50% since 2019, thanks in part to AI rollouts.
  • [06:58]
    QT: "The tech giants, all of them want to be... the supreme lead for artificial intelligence... and so they have to keep expanding data centers." – Stuart Clark
• Precise data on energy and emissions is unavailable—tech giants keep numbers secret, with data centers often physically and administratively hidden from scrutiny.
  • [08:33, 09:15]
    QT: "Some of this data is just incredibly hard to actually find." – Stuart Clark
    QT: "The industry isn't as transparent as it needs to be." – Stuart Clark
  • Google’s clandestine data centers were once codenamed "Voldemort."
    • [09:21]
      QT: "One of Google's data centers was called Lord Voldemort because it was like he who shall not be named." – Stuart Clark

Are Tech Giants’ Offsets Genuine?

• Clark questions tech companies’ climate promises, claiming they simply buy up existing green energy rather than reduce actual consumption, leaving the rest of the grid reliant on fossil fuels.
  • [10:14]
    QT: "A lot of people would say that there's a shell game going on... they're buying up a limited supply of green energy and then that leaves the rest of us to still rely on fossil fuels." – Stuart Clark

The Sustainable Software Solution

• Clark recounts discovering a bug (the notorious "N+1 query") making a system 500 times less efficient, inadvertently generating 2.3 tons of CO2 per year.
  • [11:13]
    QT: "It's like going to the library to get a 500 page book. But... you're checking out one page at a time... 500 times." – Stuart Clark
  • [11:52]
    QT: "Just this one line, one single line of code was responsible for generating... 2.3 tons of CO2 emissions per year." – Stuart Clark
• Fixing this bug reduced server load (and emissions) by 99%.
  • [12:25-12:32]
    QT: "The fix was to reduce the server load by 99%." – Stuart Clark

AI: Problem or Solution?

• AI is both the fuel of this energy arms race and, ironically, its best hope for sustainability.
  • AI can write more efficient, less resource-intensive code and optimize data center cooling and operations.
  • [13:07]
    QT: "AI does have its positives. Artificial intelligence has been used to optimize energy levels in data centers." – Stuart Clark
• Example: Companies using AI to cut data center cooling energy by 40%—the equivalent of removing a million cars from the road.
  • [13:46]
    QT: "There's a company who's been able to cool their data centers by 40% by using AI... that's like the equivalent of taking a million cars off the road." – Stuart Clark
• Software must be designed with energy efficiency as a core goal.
  • [12:44]
    QT: "It's about choosing the right programming language... designing a system which uses the absolute minimum energy required to do the job." – Stuart Clark

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If the Internet were a country, it would be the fourth largest polluter on earth." — Stuart Clark [01:00]
• "Every swipe, every click, all adding up fast... their carbon footprint is actually bigger than Greece." — Dena Temple-Raston [04:18]
• "What I see behind people... is like a little bit of an invisible toxic cloud just following them around." — Stuart Clark [05:47]
• "The tech giants... have to keep expanding data centers." — Stuart Clark [06:58]
• "Artificial intelligence necessarily isn't bad. We just have to choose our path here..." — Stuart Clark [14:12]

Timeline / Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:20–01:00: Introduction to Stuart Clark—a humorous start about his beard and career path
• 01:00–03:57: The Internet’s explosive energy growth; every device now online
• 04:09–05:23: Quantifying digital pollution—CO2 costs of searches, streams, and social media
• 05:47–06:29: "Invisible toxic clouds"—the unseen but massive carbon impact
• 06:29–07:12: The AI arms race, rising emissions, and demand for data centers
• 08:33–09:38: The industry’s lack of transparency and secrecy—“Voldemort” data centers
• 10:06–10:32: Big tech’s questionable carbon offsets
• 10:49–12:32: Sustainable software—a single bug’s huge footprint, and a simple fix’s dramatic results
• 13:07–13:57: How AI can help itself—using AI for energy optimization
• 14:12–14:25: The digital age paradox—technology as both cause and potential cure

Conclusion

The episode ends on a hopeful note: While the digital world’s carbon footprint is vast and growing, software engineers and tech companies have levers—especially in software design and AI-driven optimization—that could dramatically reduce emissions. Clark’s message is clear: The energy problems of AI and the Internet are daunting but also solvable if efficiency and sustainability become central priorities, not afterthoughts.

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