Internet kids go to war

Summary

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Episode Summary: "Internet Kids Go to War"

Podcast: Click Here (Recorded Future News)
Air Date: July 7, 2026
Host: Dena Temple Raston

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Overview

This episode explores how young, self-taught "internet kids" like Olaf Hitchwa have become crucial innovators in the war in Ukraine, transforming their passion for drone racing into life-saving battlefield solutions. Dena Temple Raston illustrates how a generation raised on YouTube tutorials and hobbyist engineering has outpaced the traditional, slower-moving defense industry, responding to frontline needs with unmatched speed and creativity. Through Olaf’s story, "Click Here" reveals how the digital era’s outsiders are rewriting the rules of modern warfare—and grappling with the responsibilities that follow.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Roots of Modern Drone Innovation

• Olaf’s Early Obsession
  • Olaf Hitchwa started flying drones at 12, learning by "crashing them since the beginning."
  • Drone racing was a subculture that grew from the Internet, filled with teenagers learning from YouTube and competing in makeshift courses—from backyards to cornfields.
    • "We're a bunch of Internet kids that like to fly really, really fast." (Olaf, 01:23 & 04:46)
• Learning by Iteration & Failure
  • Fast, frequent trial-and-error fostered a culture of rapid iteration: crash, rebuild, improve.
  • Olaf met Soren Munroe Anderson, another teen enthusiast, and together they pushed their designs further by complementing each other’s strengths—Olaf’s electronics, Soren’s mechanics.

2. From Hobby to Lifesaving Technology

• Unexpected Relevance in War
  • The war in Ukraine presented drone-related problems Olaf had been solving for fun—signal loss, battery life, flight stability—but now with life-or-death stakes.
  • When Soren called Olaf urging him to help in Ukraine, it sounded "crazy," but the urgency and technical alignment were undeniable.
    • "The problems that they raised just seem to be kind of exactly what Soren and I know how to fix." (Olaf, 09:00)
• Dramatic Pace of Innovation
  • Ukrainians on the front changed and improved equipment rapidly—what took months commercially was done in hours or days at the war’s edge.
    • "In America, we take four to 10 years to upgrade our radio system...In Ukraine, it was being done every day." (Olaf, 16:05)

3. Arrival in Ukraine & The Reality of War

• Impressions of Kyiv
  • Olaf’s first visit to Kyiv in 2022 countered his expectations: the city looked "normal," like Paris, though war’s presence lurked beneath daily life.
    • "I was like, I'm in Paris. There is no difference between this and Paris." (Olaf, 14:08)
• Discovery at a Bake Sale
  • At a city bake sale, a poster for a "toy drone" revealed how civilian tech was being repurposed for war because it was surprisingly more effective than expensive alternatives.
  • Realization: their lifelong hobby now met a critical national security need.
    • "At that point, I realized that what my co founder and I had been working on for our entire adult lives was a national security requirement." (Olaf, 15:16)

4. Building for the Frontline—A New Industrial Model

• Meeting Ukraine’s Massive Demand
  • Ukraine’s Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov made it clear: "If you can't make 5,000 of these a month, you're wasting our time and you should go home." (Olaf, 16:45)
  • The real challenge wasn’t just innovation, but scaling—delivering tens of thousands of drones monthly, not annually like the US.
    • "What America builds in a year, Ukraine can burn through one third of that in a single day." (Dena, 17:21)
• DIY Approach to Limitations
  • Facing supply and cost issues (radios costing thousands for drones that retail at $500), they gave up buying parts and started designing everything in-house, from radios to flight computers to an entire drone factory.

5. The Weight of Responsibility

• Lives Depend on Their Work
  • Olaf’s innovations transitioned from hobby to existential.
    • "Every connection I make, every component that goes onto that board has to work, otherwise that person will probably die. The intensity of that weighs on me very, very, very heavily. I think about it every day." (Olaf, 18:42)
• Ethical & Political Ambiguity
  • Suddenly, private individuals—drone racers, not generals—were determining aspects of warfare.
  • Olaf expresses discomfort:
    • "I don't believe in this idea of the corporate elite sitting around in a boardroom and then choosing, you know, Ukraine you get to live today, but Venezuela, you do not. That doesn't seem like a world I would want to live in." (Olaf, 19:41)
• Hard Lessons About Deterrence
  • Experience in Ukraine changed Olaf’s beliefs: if a country doesn’t build credible weapons, war becomes more likely.
    • "I had seen, in my opinion, unequivocal proof that if a country doesn't build weapons, if the country doesn't have credible deterrence, war happens." (Olaf, 20:09)

6. Rethinking Innovation in Defense

• Why Traditional Systems Fail
  • The West’s slow, hierarchical defense-industrial approach can’t keep up with war’s pace.
  • New defense talent doesn’t always come from the military-industrial complex; sometimes, it comes from YouTube.
    • "That's the only way to stay relevant, is to iterate very quickly at the pace of YouTube and not of national defense authorization acts." (Olaf, 20:27)
• Takeaway
  • The most successful innovations arose from people trained in informal, digital communities—digital natives who can out-iterate legacy players.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On learning through repetition:

  • "Every crash taught them something. Not just about engineering or racing, but about iteration. Fast iteration." (Dena, 05:20)

• On the cultural shift in defense manufacturing:

  • "We stopped looking for an existing solution and started building our own." (Dena, 17:59); "Let's build it ourselves. Let's build our own radios, let's build our own flight computers, let's build our own drone factory." (Olaf, 18:07)

• On the emotional burden:

  • "Every connection I make, every component that goes onto that board has to work, otherwise that person will probably die." (Olaf, 18:42)

• On who gets to innovate in war:

  • "Some of the people best equipped for this new era of warfare don't necessarily come from military academies or defense contractors. Sometimes they come from YouTube." (Dena, 20:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Setting Up Olaf’s Story

  • 00:02–03:32

• Drone Racing: The Subculture and Skillset

  • 03:32–06:45

• Joining the Ukrainian War Effort

  • 06:45–13:45

• Arrival in Kyiv & Culture Shock

  • 13:45–15:32

• The Battle to Build Enough Drones

  • 15:32–18:12

• Responsibility, Ethics, and War

  • 18:12–20:59

• Conclusion: The Source of Modern Innovation

  • 20:59–21:39

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Summary

“Internet Kids Go to War” follows the journey of Olaf Hitchwa from teenage drone hobbyist to co-founder of Neuros, a company supplying drones for frontline conflict in Ukraine and beyond. The episode unpacks how hacker mindset, YouTube self-education, and an ethos of rapid prototyping overtook traditional defense engineering, revealing new dimensions in the relationship between technology, war, and responsibility. At its heart, the episode is a testament to how innovation—and the future of warfare—is being rewritten by those raised in digital communities, not corridors of power.

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Transcript

[Dena Temple Raston]

From recorded future news and prx, this is click here. The war in Ukraine has now lasted longer than World War I. And when a war lasts that long, it's not just the weapons that change. The people fighting it have to change too. And success takes a certain kind of person, someone who's comfortable experimenting, someone who doesn't mind crashing a dozen prototypes to make the 13th one work. And we found someone like that. So how old were you when you flew your first drone?

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I was 12 when I flew my first drone.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Okay, so you've been flying them a little bit more than a decade and

[Olaf Hitchwa]

crashing them since the beginning.

[Dena Temple Raston]

From Recorded Future News and prx, this is Click Here, a show about the people making and breaking our digital world. I'm Dena Temple Raston. For years, the Internet has been producing people like Olaf Hitchwa, people who learned by trial and error, who taught themselves skills by watching YouTube videos today on the show, how that turned out to be exactly the kind of person who a very modern war needed.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

We're a bunch of Internet kids that like to fly really, really fast.

[Dena Temple Raston]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Dena Temple Raston]

So let's rewind. Long before drones became one of the defining weapons of the war in Ukraine, they were a hobby, a sport, even an obsession. And that's what it sounds like. That's a drone race in the middle of a cornfield.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

We set up these tracks wherever we can in our backyards, in these big events in the middle of cornfields. And it's kind of like F1, but in 3D. You have these boxes that you have to fly through and make racing lines through them and pass your friends and beat them, just like in a formula one race.

[Dena Temple Raston]

This is Olaf Hitchwa, and he grew up racing drones in places like that.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

A lot of requests from my mother, my incredible mother, to drive me to faraway places to random cornfields.

[Dena Temple Raston]

The competitors wear goggles, not because they look cool, but because the goggles let them see what the drone sees. Put them on, and suddenly you're inside the machine. The world rushes towards you. Trees, gates, the ground, your friends, everything arriving at 100 miles an hour.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

We're a bunch of Internet kids that like to fly really, really fast.

[Dena Temple Raston]

And are there crashes?

[Olaf Hitchwa]

Oh, yeah, there are a lot of crashes. And they're explosive. The drones slam into the gates at over 100 miles an hour. They crash into each other.

[Dena Temple Raston]

So how old were you when you flew your first drone?

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I was 12 when I flew my first drone.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Okay, so you've been flying them a little bit more than a decade and

[Olaf Hitchwa]

crashing them since the beginning.

[Dena Temple Raston]

The way Olaf remembers it, drone racing wasn't really a sport. It was a corner of the Internet that somehow spilled into real life. They were teenagers who Learned Engineering on YouTube, soldered electronics at the kitchen table, and drove hours to random fields so they could destroy something they'd spent all week building. And then they'd build it again. Every crash taught them something. Not just about engineering or racing, but about iteration. Fast iteration. A burned out motor, a cracked frame. A drone that suddenly dropped out of the sky. Figure out what happened, Fix it, try again. The cycle could happen half a dozen times before lunch. And eventually, in one of those cornfields, Olaf met another teenager who seemed just as obsessed as he was. A guy named Soren Munroe Anderson.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

Well, we were both very young teenagers surrounded by a sea of nerdy adults. I think we were the only the

[Dena Temple Raston]

Way Olaf tells it, they recognize something in each other almost right away. Not classmates, not teammates. Something closer to co conspirators. Two kids building and tweaking drone racers to make them faster.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

He was a mechanical thinker. I was an electrical thinker. I'd like to think that my electrical designs were much better. His mechanical designs were much better.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Neither one of them came out of a military program or a defense contractor or even an engineering school. They came out of the Internet. How did they learn how to build drones and fly them?

[Olaf Hitchwa]

Both of us watched a ridiculous amount of YouTube.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Pretty quickly, drones stopped being just a hobby. They became this thing they organized their lives around.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

We were forced to go to school. We did not like school. We would both sprint home from the school buses to go build drones. And we both thought that if we could make drones, make money, we could make it our life. And we didn't have to do.

[Dena Temple Raston]

At the time, none of this seemed especially important. It was a hobby, an obsession, maybe the foundation for a startup one day. But mostly, it was just two kids spending thousands of hours learning how drones behaved, what made them fly, what made them fail. When the war in Ukraine began, Olaf found himself paying attention for an unexpected reason. Soldiers there sounded like drone racers. They talked about signal loss, battery life, range, flight stability, the kinds of problems he'd spent years trying to solve. And that surprised him, because Olaf had never imagined those skills belonging in a war. He was still a world away from it all, living in California, working at a startup. Then his friend Soren called.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I stepped right outside to try and get out of earshot of my boss. It was a very small startup, and I was the.

[Dena Temple Raston]

His friend had what sounded like a completely insane idea.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

It was absolutely necessary that we both go to Ukraine and start working on this technology.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Quit your job, come to Ukraine, help build drones.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

My default instinct is, no, this is crazy. I love where I am. I love what I'm working on. I have no reason to just drop everything and go to Ukraine. But.

[Dena Temple Raston]

But Soren had started talking to people in Ukraine almost every night. And he kept telling Olaf the same thing. Get on one of these calls, then you'll understand.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

The problems that they raised just seem to be kind of exactly what Soren and I know how to fix.

[Dena Temple Raston]

And that was the thing. The conversations weren't really about war, at least not in the way Olaf had imagined. Nobody was talking strategy or geopolitics. They were talking about drones. Why they failed, why they crashed, how to make them fly farther, and how to make them fly better.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

You know, my drone is shaking in flight. How do I fix that? My drone doesn't have this kind of range. My drone is.

[Dena Temple Raston]

What struck Olif wasn't that people in Ukraine were using drones. It was the pace with which they were using them. Problems that might take months to solve in the commercial world were being worked through in days, sometimes hours, because every improvement mattered. More range meant reaching a target. A stronger signal meant getting through, jamming.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I remember I lit up. I was so excited. I was like, actually, I designed a custom PCB for this application almost in the drone racing days.

[Dena Temple Raston]

The more Olaf listened, the stranger the situation seemed. People on the other side of the world were describing problems he'd already spent years thinking about, problems he'd solved for fun in cornfields after school.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

Before I knew it, I couldn't go to sleep because I was just staying up unbelievably late working on their designs, and I couldn't wake up on time for work. And while I was at work, I kept going back to, like, when can I go design PCBs, PCBs, printed circuit

[Dena Temple Raston]

boards, the electronic guts inside a drone. At first, Olaf treated it like a side project. Get off work, go home, open his laptop and start sketching ideas for people he'd never met. Then he'd look up and realize it was two in the morning, then three, then four. And eventually he found himself spending more time thinking about drones in Ukraine than the startup he was being paid to work for. Not long after that, Olaf was on a train to Kyiv. That trip would change more than his career. When we come back, Olaf arrives in Kyiv. Stay with us. Support for Click Here comes from Servil. Every company says AI will make employees more productive. But most employees are still stuck waiting on it, waiting for app access and password resets, waiting for someone to fix a laptop issue so they can get back to work. That operational drag adds up fast, and IT teams are overwhelmed trying to keep up. Servl was built to change that. You describe what you want in plain English and Servl builds it for you. No complicated workflow, no consultants, just faster support and fewer tickets slowing everybody down. The platform is designed to eliminate repetitive tickets so it can focus on strategic work instead of constant firefighting. And unlike traditional automation tools, Servol doesn't require consultants or long implementation cycles. Servol positions it as the AI powered operational backbone of the company, not just a support function. Learn more or start a free four week pilot at cerval.com clickhere that's S E R V A L.com clickhere servol.com clickhere at Amica Insurance, we know it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. That's why we work even harder to protect what matters most. And as a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amika Empathy is our best friend policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote. Today,

[Olaf Hitchwa]

The Wired newsroom is known for award winning reporting on how technology shapes our world. On WIRED's Uncanny Valley, we take that curiosity even further. Each week, journalists from Wired break down the biggest stories in tech while speaking directly with the people, building, challenging and reshaping the future. Is the AI boom sustainable? How do you protect your privacy in an age of constant surveillance? Uncanny Valley tackles the questions driving today's tech debates and lighting up your group chats. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dena Temple Raston]

The train trip from Poland to kyiv takes about 2020 hours. Long enough to imagine what a city at war might look like. Olaf boarded it for the first time in 2022. His parents hated the idea. Olaf was nervous about it too. But when the train finally pulled into the station, the first thing that struck him wasn't the war. It was how normal everything looked.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I was like, I'm in Paris. There is no difference between this and Paris.

[Dena Temple Raston]

People were going to work, meeting friends, living their lives. The war was there. You could hear it in the air raid sirens, you could feel it in the conversations. But most of the time, it just sat beneath the surface. And then one afternoon in Kyiv, Olaf stumbled on the war in an unexpected place. A bake sale.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I saw a bake sale on the side of the street and I recognized a poster with one of my favorite toy drones on it.

[Dena Temple Raston]

A toy drone. Or at least something that looked like one. For years, Olaf had thought of drones like that as racing machines. Things you flew through gates and cornfields, things you crashed for fun.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

The person running the big sale was actually the wife of a war fighter and she was raising money to buy one of these drones for her husband. What he wanted was one of these allegedly toy grade drones because they were so much more effective.

[Dena Temple Raston]

More effective. Not more expensive, not more sophisticated, more effective.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

And at that point, I realized that what my co founder and I had been working on for our entire adult lives was a national security requirement.

[Dena Temple Raston]

A few days later, Olaf found himself in an underground drone workshop near the front.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

And there are stacks of these drones and I see a pick and place Machine. It's this robotic instrument that assembles chips onto circuit boards.

[Dena Temple Raston]

This is the thing you had in your friend's basement.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

Exactly.

[Dena Temple Raston]

For Olaf, the surprise wasn't the technology, it was the pace. The teams he met in Ukraine weren't waiting to improve a system. They were making changes constantly, sometimes every day.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

In America, we take four to 10 years to upgrade our radio system. A year would be a massive change in the way we operate In Ukraine. It was being done every day. And that culture prevailed everywhere, and that culture was contagious.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Before long, Olaf and Soren decided they wanted to build drones for Ukraine themselves. So they started taking meetings. Two twenty somethings making the rounds. They even sat down with Mykhailo Fedorov, Ukraine's Defense Minister. And while he was interested in their drones, he quickly got to the point.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

But if you can't make 5,000 of these a month, you're wasting our time and you should go home. And that's a minimum. And we left that, that meeting kind of a bit in shock. But then I think we also really understood what the challenge was.

[Dena Temple Raston]

The challenge wasn't building a better drone. It was building enough of them. And when Fedorov told them how many he wanted for a second, Olaf and Soren thought he might be kidding. The number seemed that big.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

America built something like 30,000 drones last year.

[Dena Temple Raston]

What America builds in a year, Ukraine can burn through one third of that in a single day.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

We immediately started Googling like, okay, let's build 5,000 drones a month. Well, we need to buy radios for these 5,000 drones a month. We need to buy flight computers, motor drivers.

[Dena Temple Raston]

And soon they discovered they couldn't simply buy enough of the parts they needed for a price that made sense.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

They wanted thousands of dollars per radio. And we said, no, we're selling the drone for $500. How can we have a, you know, multi thousand dollar radio? And it was so clear that the American industrial base was not used to producing systems like this.

[Dena Temple Raston]

So they did what a lot of people in Ukraine seem to be doing. They stopped looking for an existing solution and started building their own.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

Let's build it ourselves. Let's build our own radios, let's build our own flight computers, let's build our own drone factory.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Neither of them had set out to start a defense company. They were just trying to solve the next problem in front of them, then the next one, and the next one. Today. Olaf and Soren's company, they called it Neuros, supplies drones used in Ukraine and has contracts with the Pentagon. But For Olaf, success isn't measured in contracts or production numbers. It's measured in something much harder to carry. Responsibility.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I remember I got the first phone call of someone on the front line that was using our system. And just the, in the voice, the fear of, like, this person, you know, has a very good chance of death if the system doesn't work. Every connection I make, every component that goes onto that board has to work, otherwise that person will probably die. And the. The intensity of that weighs on me very, very, very heavily. I think about it every day.

[Dena Temple Raston]

And this is where the story starts getting uncomfortable. Because Olaf and Soren weren't generals. They weren't elected officials. They were 20 something drone racers. The kind of people who, not so long ago were teaching themselves electronics on YouTube. And now they were helping shape the future of warfare. So you're a private company, nobody elected you, and yet you're shaping what's happening on a battlefield. Does that feel strange to you?

[Olaf Hitchwa]

It does. It does. I don't believe in this idea of the corporate elite sitting around in a boardroom and then choosing, you know, Ukraine you get to live today, but Venezuela, you do not. That doesn't seem like a world I would want to live in.

[Dena Temple Raston]

But spending time in Ukraine had changed him, because alongside questions about who would shape a war was a more basic one. How do you stop one?

[Olaf Hitchwa]

I had seen, in my opinion, unequivocal proof that if a country doesn't build weapons, if the country doesn't have credible deterrence, war happens.

[Dena Temple Raston]

And he says countries that fail to adapt won't stay ahead for long.

[Olaf Hitchwa]

In the west, we treat defense systems as these very complex systems that can only be worked on by a select few folks that have the right connections in D.C. but unfortunately, that is not compatible with the pace of iteration that the frontline requires. And that's the only way to stay relevant, is to iterate very quickly at the pace of YouTube and not of national defense authorization acts.

[Dena Temple Raston]

The lesson Olaf took from Ukraine wasn't really about drones. It was about where innovation comes from. A few years ago, Olaf was spending his weekends racing drones through cornfields. Now he's helping build systems used on the front lines of a war. And maybe that's the thing. Ukraine figured out before everybody else, that some of the people best equipped for this new era of warfare don't necessarily come from military academies or defense contractors. Sometimes they come from YouTube. This is. Click here.

[Narrator/Announcer]

If you're looking for a daily guide to cybersecurity news and policy, sign up for the Cyber Daily from Recorded Future News. It serves up today's most interesting and important cyber stories from our sister publication the Record, and then aggregates all of the big cyber stories you might have missed from news outlets around the world. Just go to the Record Media and click on Cyber Daily to get all you need to know about the world of cybersecurity right in your inbox.

[Dena Temple Raston]

Here's what you need to know about the tech world this week. It's Tuesday, July 7th. A few weeks ago, the Trump administration blocked some of the most powerful AI models in the world. Now it's done in about face. The Trump administration has lifted export restrictions on Anthropic's most advanced AI models. Those models are Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5. The restrictions came after cybersecurity researchers found a way around Fable 5 safeguards, making it easier to find and potentially exploit Software vulnerabilities. Now Fable 5 is back, and Mythos 5 is too, but only for a small group of organizations approved by the federal government. And that back and forth points to something bigger. The most powerful AI models may be built in Silicon Valley, but increasingly Washington gets a say in who gets to use them. Last week, the House passed a major bill designed to make the Internet safer for kids. It was bipartisan and sailed through the House, and almost immediately the trouble started. The Kids Internet and Digital Safety act, or KIDS act, is already coming under fire. The bill would give parents more control over what their kids see online. It would limit the use of minors data for advertising, and it would require AI chatbots to remind young users that they're not human. But the criticism is coming from both directions. Some child safety advocates say the bill doesn't go far enough. Privacy and free speech groups say it goes too far because enforcing it could mean checking the ages of everyone online, not just kids. And the Senate has its own stricter version, which means the biggest fight over kids and the Internet may no longer be whether Washington should step in. It's what the Internet looks like when it does. Major sporting events usually come with tight security. At this year's World cup, some of that security is looking up. Security forces say they have already intercepted and neutralized hundreds of unauthorized aerial intrusions. Drones have made an unannounced appearance. The FBI says it has taken down more than 500 of them over World cup host cities since the tournament began. Flying one into restricted airspace can mean a fine of up to $100,000 a year in prison and losing the drone. And in host cities, the FBI has deployed teams with technology that can detect track and intercept aircraft in the sky. The World cup ends later this month, but some of the systems being used to protect it may live on. And finally, the drama Inside OpenAI is coming to the big screen. The film about OpenAI. It's starring Andrew Garfield as Sam Altman. The film is called Artificial and it tells the story of five extraordinary days in 2023 when OpenAI's board found fired Sam Altman. The company's employees revolted and Altman got his job back. But now the movie has some drama of its own. Amazon MGM Studios was backing the nearly finished $40 million project and then earlier this month, Amazon walked away. Why? Well, it might be that Amazon is investing $50 billion in OpenAI as part of a strategic partnership that will excel accelerate OpenAI's use of Amazon Web Services. Enter Neon, the studio behind award winning movies like Ganora and Parasite. It has picked up the film and said to expect its release later this year. Click Here is a production of Recorded Future News and prx. Today's show was written and produced by Megan Dietre, Sean Powers, Erica Guida, Zach Hirsch and Maya Fawaz. It was edited by Karen Duffin and Sarah Cavedo and fact checked by Darren Ancrum. Original music is by Ben Levingston with additional music from Blue Dot Sessions. Our staff writer is Lucas Riley, our illustrator is Megan Gough, and our sound designers and engineers are Jake Cook and Jesse Niswaker. I'm Dena Tumble Rastan and thanks for listening. Support for this program comes from Recorded Future. In cybersecurity, the biggest risk isn't what can be seen, it's what gets missed. Recorded Future analyzes billions of signals to help organizations stay ahead of threats. Recorded Future Know what Matters act first

[Narrator/Announcer]

Looking for more of the cybersecurity and intelligence coverage you get on Click Here, then check out our sister publication the Record from Recorded Future News. You'll get breaking cyber news from reporters in New York, Washington, London and Kyiv, among others. And you'll see for yourself why it attracts hundreds of thousands of page views every month. Just go to the Record Media.